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Posted by: Kerrys914 Nov 5 2003, 07:40 AM

Geting an exhaust system as a gift and need to decide which one to get, lifes rough hu?

I would like to here your thoughts on the two above.

Performance and Sound are the two main areas of interest.

Currently I have the 4 tip Monza on my FI 2.0L stock engine.

Cheers
Kerry

Posted by: redshift Nov 5 2003, 07:48 AM

I've never liked an exhaust that wasn't factory, until I got this Triad.

What is the Mittlemotor design? Is this the OEM style in SS?


M

Posted by: rhodyguy Nov 5 2003, 07:52 AM

what does the mittlemotor run?

kevin

Posted by: Kerrys914 Nov 5 2003, 08:07 AM

I think the Mittlemotor is around $390 + shipping. and is stainless steel (looks very nice).


Kerry

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 08:16 AM

The mittelmotor muffler is 396.55 euro
Which translates to about $465
That's ex.shipping

I think it would be hard to compare the two...

IIRC the Triad is a glasspack in mild steel
The Mittelmotor is a regular muffler in SS

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: redshift Nov 5 2003, 08:32 AM

Hmmm...

Triad!


M

Posted by: rhodyguy Nov 5 2003, 08:36 AM

so if the mm is shipped from europe it takes what? 3 weeks? shipping would run $50 to whatever. any duties/taxes? get a triad, take the difference and put it towards konis.

kevin

Posted by: Engman Nov 5 2003, 08:53 AM

I saw and heard the middlemotor at the Nasville fun run. SS is Sweeeeeeeeeeet. Loved the sound. My 2.0 sounds like a VW - this has a nice throath sound. Maybe Brad can chime in as he saw and heard this as well. I am sold on it personally - ss means it will be the last one I buy and the sound is sweet!

I am going to wait to see what happens with the Euro - right now the $ is at its worst ever in comparison.


M

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 09:25 AM

Does anybody know how long the glasspacks in the Triads last?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: StratPlayer Nov 5 2003, 10:42 AM

I think mittlemotor is what I'm leaning towards when I get a new muffler this winter I like the fact that it will be the last one I have to buy.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:21 PM

Mittlemotor and I want to stock them. It wont rust out and sounds awesome against the SSI HE's.

I like the Triad sound but the mild steel and Cherry bombs kill it for me.

I'm also not real fond of the dual outlet look (he may have single outlet look) It reminds me of every Chevy/Ford truck with dual exhaust.


B

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:24 PM

You know where mittelmotor gets them?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:26 PM

BTW Mittelmotor stocks about doodlesquat...
And can't deliver most the "hard to find parts" they've got listed
The listing just looks impressive, that's all

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:28 PM

I would think that Mittlemotor gets them from SuperSprint (I have one and it look almost identical to the MM)


B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:29 PM

I'm not surprised MM doesnt stock anything.


B

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:30 PM

Geoff told me you were having a hard time getting "Porsche Classic" parts in the US
Is that true?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:34 PM

I just need a better connection over there. I see parts listed as NLA but wonder if they are truelly NLA or if Porsche classic has them.

How much business does one have to do to buy direct from them ??


B

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:37 PM

Anything specific?
The 914PET is pretty up to date (about NLA parts)

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:39 PM

Nothing specific right this minute. I see the NLA parts in the 914PET.

The biggest concern: what is the buy-in to purchase from them ??

How do you become a master distributor for them ??


B

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:44 PM

Dunno about that... I'll search my archives. I have a direct contact for Porsche Classic in Stuttgart somewhere
Most p-shops here don't get their p-parts through Porsche though

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:47 PM

Correct. Noe one here gets their parts from Porsche. We have a few "master wharehouses" that everyone buy's from.

There has to be a "price" to pay to be a master wharehouse (or you have to know someone) or be a friend of the family.


B

Posted by: cha914 Nov 5 2003, 02:51 PM

this is the mittle motor exhaust you are talking about right?



if so, any one ever see the inside? I can't imagine it would be that hard to reproduce...What wall thickness and type of stainless is good for exhaust?

Tony

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 5 2003, 02:52 PM

Same here... your discount at the "masterwarehouse" depends on who much you buy from them on a yearly basis
Here they have no trouble getting the classic parts though (if that is what you're looking for)
I think that if you wanna buy directly for Porsche you'll have to buy huge quantities...

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 02:55 PM

That is this Mittlemotor muffler. It would not be hard to reproduce. The flanges are the most expensive piece in that whole thing.


B

Posted by: cha914 Nov 5 2003, 02:58 PM

do you think there are any baffels on the inside or just open?

the flanges are what 1/4" thick stainless?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 03:03 PM

Its baffled. You just cant see the spot welds on the outside of the "tube" I think someone photo edited them out. The one I looked at had the spot welds.

Looks can be deceiving. The flanges and input tubes dont just "dump" into the large can and go out the end. Porsche increases the length of the exhaust by placing perforated tubes inside the "canister" that crossover each other inside the tube. Then you wrap those perforated tubes in the same material that SuperTrap uses (not fiberglass that can blow out) SuperTrap is using actual "space age" materials.


B

Posted by: Engman Nov 5 2003, 03:05 PM

Flanges - I can make these - how thick? These just a copy of the flanges on the SSI's?

Brad - make some!!!!!!!!!!! I can get you the flanges.

M

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 03:09 PM

They are a copy of the SSI flanges.

If you dont have any flanges to "take dimensions from" I can get you one or two that are not welded to anything.

B

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 03:11 PM

The problem is: this thing is ugly and not acceptable by most.

SSI is working on a stock stainless banana replacement muffler with performance in mind. It will appear stock from the outside and be baffled differently on the inside with option tips on the exit.

B

Posted by: cha914 Nov 5 2003, 03:13 PM

I thought it would have to be baffled...so are you saying that the mittlemotor exhaust uses the perforated tubes design, or thats the way it should be done?

I know I had a similar muffler built for my bus by a guy a long time ago, it was basically a 3" tube with two trangle baffels welded in, and a tip stuck on...looked very similar to the one pictured, except that is wasn't stainless...and so it rusted...but I always liked the sound...

Tony

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 03:16 PM

I havent cut a Mittlemotor muffler apart so I dont know what they used. I do know from the spot welds that the baffles are placed almost the same distance apart as the stock muffler. To get the power, you play with the size of the perforations in the crossover tubes (tuning the effective length). Again.. I have NO idea what they did on the MM muffler.


B

Posted by: Kerrys914 Nov 5 2003, 03:43 PM

"The problem is: this thing is ugly and not acceptable by most."

Brad, you don't like the looks of the Mittlemotor exhaust? Do you have any photo's of the exhaust installed? Maybe it doesn't look as good installed???

Cheers
Kerry

Posted by: cha914 Nov 5 2003, 04:08 PM

I am really with Brad...its a very simple muffler, and I am sure it looks fine, but its definately not a stunning piece, and for that price, I would want it to be a wow piece...or a full header

Tony

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 5 2003, 04:15 PM

After dealing with VERY high quality stainless products... this is not acceptable in "my" book. It sells because we have only 1-2 choices for a new muffler.

Would a high quality piece sell ?? That is a question I cannot answer. It would take 100k to make a new factory "looking" muffler and it would cost 450-500$


B

Posted by: Rouser Nov 5 2003, 04:28 PM

Not a great example, but here's a MM muffler installed:


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 5 2003, 04:30 PM

Most "real" wholesale outfits will want a major commitment. Sure there are resellers that say they're giving wholesale prices, but that's not true.

All the ones I have talked to want a minimum $50,000 pr/yr commitment. If you only sell $30000 worth get ready to stock $20,000 to keep the deal.

A buddy of mine is a Yamaha outboard dealer, $250,000 at the beginning of the year of motors and parts in stock just to keep the dealership. If he orders the wrong engines, etc.,too bad.

Posted by: dsmeyer Nov 5 2003, 05:09 PM

This is a stock 2.0 muffler converted into a 911/914-6 style sport muffler. The tail pipe is cut off and covered. Then the new tail pipes are added. On 911s they also cut some parts inside, don't know if they did that here. I had this muffler made for me over 15 years ago by Alan Johnson in San Diego. It was $$$$$$, but worth it.

It sounds great, a little loud, but not as loud as a 914-6 with a sport muffler. It needs some more paint in this picture, but that helps you see what it looks like better.

Posted by: Aaron Cox Nov 5 2003, 07:41 PM

I still want to fab a flowmaster for my /4 2.0

Posted by: maf914 Nov 6 2003, 08:02 AM

I bought a Mittlemotor muffler about a year ago and used it for a couple of months before my car moved into the garage full time for some engine and clutch work (jeesh, I've got to get this thing together!). When mounted the muffler body is fully concealed behind the rear valence. All you normally see are the two twin exhaust pipes from the heat exchangers to the muffler body and of course the tail pipe. Unlike on the blue 914 above, if you have a bumper and valence it could almost pass as stock from the rear, except the tail pipe diameter is greater than stock. The build quality appears to be very good. Nice clean welding and what appears to be good materials. It bolted up to my SS HEs with no problem and the tail pipe was well centered in the valence cutout. I will say that the MM seems to be relatively heavy, at least compared to the Bursch quiet it replaced. I haven't had a stock muffler for a long time so I can't copare the two.

Mike

Posted by: pat4 Nov 6 2003, 08:06 AM

Do you have the SuperSprint part number or reference ?

Posted by: Brad Roberts Nov 6 2003, 11:18 PM

Hey Pat.

I do have it... just not readily available. If Andy sees this thread or Britain...or Mark. One of them can remind me tomorrow to get the number off the muffler in the shop.

The Supersprint looks pretty good and appears to be almost identical to the MM.


B

Posted by: robby750 Nov 7 2003, 09:03 PM

That picture of the blue car is my car. It is a crappy pic. Like Mike said, after the valance is installed, the only thing you can see is the stainless tubes coming off the exchangers. I paid just under $370.00 delivered for mine 2 years ago and i think it was a bargain. I wasted money on 3 Bursch systems that all rusted out. They sounded raspy and the rusty ugly pipes looked like shit form the rear. The Mittlemotor sounds great and should last forever.

Posted by: Bleyseng Nov 8 2003, 03:34 PM

Brad, if you make a new SS muffler make it lighter than the ]mittlemotor one. I picked it up and it was heavy! Great if you want it to last a long time but too heavy for a AX car.
Geoff

Posted by: Bleyseng Nov 12 2003, 08:03 AM

here is a pic of one


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Jeroen Nov 12 2003, 08:06 AM

Hey Geoff,

Thanks a lot for the postcard!!!

Are you back home again?
How was Mittelmotor?

cheers,

Jeroen