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Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 04:53 PM

Please, as many people as possible respond to this poll - it WILL affect future availability of bolt-on performance additions!!

Thank you!

PS If you are concerned about anonymity, do not be, voting does not identify you, only typed replies do -

So please, almost 100 views and only a scant handful of votes?!?

Even if you already have your dream equipment do not hold back and vote as if you were once again at the starting grid!!


THANKS!!

Posted by: jsteele22 Nov 6 2006, 05:13 PM

Subaru EG33 flat six.

Posted by: Heeltoe914 Nov 6 2006, 05:13 PM

What motor and setup do you have now?

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 05:20 PM

UMMM, OK --- May I ask your reason to go through all of the trouble to explain your each and every position for a poll??

Posted by: Mueller Nov 6 2006, 05:29 PM

so much for some freindly advice/feedback.........

Posted by: Matt Meyer Nov 6 2006, 05:37 PM

Seems like a funny question for someone with over 1000 posts.

I thought Muller was exceptionally brief. Good thing I'm not done typing my post.

And Jake hasn't even voted yet.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 06:00 PM

Easy Mike, I meant no ill will with that question - this is a poll and as such all polls must be unbiased so as to aquire true results. Actually I typed an apology about 15 minutes ago and then was kicked off the board and only just now got back on, just so you know. As you made mention there are a few items being manufactured. However these are not the end all of developement, and as such this question and this poll is of great use to myself and is truly worthwhile of exploring.

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 6 2006, 06:25 PM

Tires.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 06:29 PM

Hey Eric, if I sent you 4 rear and 2 front calipers - AND two sets of rear arms (excellent shape) would that get me a set of 5 lug front rotors and a five lug conversion rear with rotors???????

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 6 2006, 07:05 PM

actually, i think the 914 aftermarket is actually pretty good. for those bolt-on mods that would actually result in reliable performance gains, we already have numerous options.

the only thing i can really think of that is lacking is 15x7 lightweight 4-bolt wheels.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 07:07 PM

KONIG -----

Posted by: nebreitling Nov 6 2006, 07:12 PM

for less than $800/set

Posted by: Sammy Nov 6 2006, 07:17 PM

content removed

Posted by: grantsfo Nov 6 2006, 07:22 PM

Headers and freeflowing muffler are easiest and best bang for the buck bolt on improvements in my opinion. Then the bolt off options should be considered.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 07:25 PM

Tire Rack ----

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 6 2006, 07:44 PM

how old are you? 19?


anyways, i haven't voted because you don't have any "Kompressor" listed.
that would be my first choice of forced induction over any turbo system ...
Andy

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 07:53 PM

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 6 2006, 07:58 PM

Several more in development now... Chris from Tangerine and myself are working to bring more options to all the Type 4 applications that are more cost effective, and truly developed- this includes the 914... Chris is taking it seriously and I look forward to the development work-

The 914 following has already proven that they are not willing to buy a developed 914 Turbo system. The one I created is in the attic collecting rust because of open ended promises from guys with bigger mouths than wallets... Sorry, but its the truth..The sad part is that mine REALLY worked very, very well and made over 170HP on a 100% bone stock 2.0 with 80K miles on it!

Posted by: 914forme Nov 6 2006, 07:59 PM

SuperCharger = "Kompressor"

But I did not vote because the bolt on for me would be a -6, it is a true built on ahh in.

But then about anything will bolt in there, my dad has a bitchin' set of tools we can fix it!

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 6 2006, 08:30 PM

geee, ever heard of a "Mecedes Benz" ???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-CL-Class-03-CL55-AMG-55-Kompressor-Supercharged-493-HP-FREE-SHIPPING_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31852QQihZ017QQitemZ270050104780QQrdZ1

and yes, you call it a super charger. still missing from your poll-choices ...
Andy

Posted by: jwalters Nov 6 2006, 08:41 PM

And you tried to infer I am not OBSERVANT ---go figure, think again punker boy on what my response was---------

I await eagerly -

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 6 2006, 08:45 PM

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 6 2006, 08:57 PM

I have built two Supercharged TIV engines. One of them made 300RWHP, the other one disappeared and I don't believe it has ran yet!!

I have plans for a Supercharger kit for a TIV engine, but haven't worked on it since 2001

Posted by: nbscooters Nov 6 2006, 08:58 PM

Are you talking about a stock type IV motor or any motor in general? Depending on what type of motor you have, it all depends on what can be bolted on for a performance gain.

Although I voted for adding a turbocharger for FI because I would believe you could gain the most power than any of the other options, I still believe that it would be a waste of time and money to go that route. You would need some sort of variable pressure fuel pump, ecu that will handle boost, intercooler for the turbo, oil cooler, and some sort of sensor that determines how much fuel to inject under boost.

In America we call it a supercharger or blower, when its on a Mercedes, they call it a Kompressor.

Posted by: 914nerd Nov 6 2006, 11:23 PM

Sorry in advance about the hijack
Jake, how much $$$ are we talking here for a turbo setup?
Just out of curiosity (due to the fact that I may wind up setting something up to this effect at some point)
Thanks,
Charles

Again, sorry for the

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 6 2006, 11:49 PM

Charles, if you have to ask..

If jake doesnt post his price. I remember about 6k.. was what he was talking about.. But its his design, and he probably wont sell it any time soon.


Scooters...

Run 5psi, no intercooler needed. Megasquirt is $300 with a closed loop system (pick your a/f ratio per spectrum, and it automatically adjusts.. BOO YA!) Turbo from junkyard, you'll need to do serious research. or buy a new one for 600. Wastegate, BOV, boost controler,wideband o2 sensor, map sensor, TPS(optional), Temp sensors, and a little tuning ability, welding, bigger fuel pump and bigger injectors (maybe..) to handle the added air, and tap in an oil line and your done.

Its not THAT big of a deal... You just cant run a lot of boost. Jake has posted some of the reasons.. (do a search.) You can build it for cheap as dirt(few have built them for less than 400), to rich mans gold (talk to jake about that one)

Posted by: balljoint Nov 7 2006, 09:29 AM

Complete exhaust, with heat.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 7 2006, 12:32 PM

Damn it Eric beat me to it.
Then Porterfield pads.

Driving school!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tangerine
Mallory ignition

Massive power.

Posted by: McMark Nov 7 2006, 12:53 PM

Uh, oh, this has become the turbo debate thread. I better go bump "6 vs 4".

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2006, 01:11 PM

My kit wasn't just a Turbo kit, it was also an EFI kit with direct ignition AND included my DTM for the 914. It literally was every part from the intake to the exhaust pipe, all you needed was a longblock.. The best part is that every part was designed to work with the rest of the components and install in one weekend.

That was about 5,500 bucks including a brand new Turbo...
BUT cheap bastards pissed me off- that happens..

Posted by: Brett W Nov 7 2006, 01:25 PM

Boost is the way to go for a street motor. Unfortunately the T4 is not a good candidate for it.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2006, 01:31 PM

With some intervention and enhancements it can be done effectively.. If you cut corners or don't take it seriously and it'll kill the engine fast..

Posted by: Solo914 Nov 7 2006, 01:52 PM

Sorry for the Highjack,

Can you enlighten me further? I have done some serious research and I didn't know Konig made a wheel with a large enough mounting face to be able fit a 4x130 bolt pattern. Which wheel?

Posted by: jwalters Nov 7 2006, 02:13 PM

Yea, it mimicks the VW auto's bolt pattern for many years - I see them on quite a few pre-79 bugs - As you know, the Type-1 is disappearing also - they may not actively advertise these wheels anymore because of this fact. Call them, I am sure they have plenty which have not had the mounting holes drilled yet, and can hook you up....

Posted by: Mueller Nov 7 2006, 02:23 PM

....the only Konig wheel I've ever seen on a 914 was on my car....and that was due to me re-drilling for a 4x100 bolt pattern...

Posted by: jwalters Nov 7 2006, 02:31 PM

Five mouse clicks and there I was ---

http://www.konigwheels.com/catalog_product_details.cfm?CategoryID=1&ss_id=143

Posted by: Solo914 Nov 7 2006, 03:06 PM

yep,
Found those before. So, they come in 2 different offsets and each version has a different size mounting pad.

15x7, 0 offset wheel, 4x1.114.3(big mounting pad)= Wrong offset but the correctly sized mounting pad/hub size

15x7, 40 offset wheel, 4x100(small mounting pad)= Correct offset but the wrong sized mounting pad/hub size

I am still looking into seeing if they can manufacture the 15x7, 40 offset wheel in the larger mounting pad, we will see.

Kyle

Posted by: jwalters Nov 7 2006, 03:10 PM

Yes, they can - more importantly, they have a "classic" line which only people in the know, know about. It HAS been awhile, but in all of my hot vdubs and vw trends mags there were always vw parts houses which sold correct bolt pattern Konig's with myriad backspacing. Would not be surprised if many of them still had stock on hand>>>>>>>>

Posted by: Crazyhippy Nov 7 2006, 03:36 PM

Driving school...

Easiest way to go faster. (note the period)

BJH

Posted by: Sammy Nov 7 2006, 03:54 PM

content removed

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2006, 06:02 PM

Yep and his system didn't even incorporate cooling or EFI....
I threw away about 8K bucks in time on the 914 Turbo kit, but I tossed it and took the write off and called it done..

Lesson learned.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 7 2006, 06:04 PM

So Jake, you did not have ANY biters on your kits???

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 7 2006, 09:15 PM

Yeah a couple.. But not nearly enough to warrant any sort of production.

Posted by: Brett W Nov 8 2006, 12:26 AM

I don't understand what the problem with 914 owners are. There are 18-21 year old kids that are turbocharging their Hondas from junkyard parts. Yes they already have water cooling and nice fuel injection, but that can be taken into the equation. It is not that hard, but you will learn a thing or two the hard way if you are not careful.

There are enough T4s in this world that blowing a few to smithereens will not cause a problem. If you want to go fast with a T4, put a turbo on it and learn the lessons the rest of us have learned.

check out www.homemadeturbo.com, yeah I know some of the stuff they do is hacked together. If you take your time and hunt for good parts you can do it without hacking.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/turbo_projects/

Posted by: Mueller Nov 8 2006, 01:23 AM

914 turbos "have" been done...there are a handful around...the reason you don't see a bunch of them is that it's easier for many to do an engine conversion...for a /6 or even V6/V8 conversion 99% of all the parts needed can be bought...not so with a homemade turbo for a 914...only the talanted or stubborn will go thru the trouble of making a turbo 914.....as well as Jakes kit might be, if I had $5500 laying around just for the kit (and knowing that I don't have a decent long block to use it on) , I'd find a way to scrounge up a few more grand a do a mid-to-big /6 conversion...

the Honda turbos are very well documented, tons of support, much cheaper and easier to access parts and they don't have as many engine options as the 914 guys do....

also, in at least our PCA region (auto-x and DE), even adding a 2psi boost capable system to a dead and dying 1.7 would throw you right in the same class as mega dollar 911s that spend $30K just on the engine....point based system as of last year so the "penalities" of a boosted engine in a 914 not as bad....

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 8 2006, 01:24 AM

Yup. I believe all 4 cylander cars should be boosted.

I also belive all cars period should be boosted... Much better fuel economy and performance.. (no need for gas guzzling v8's in sports cars and the like)


Someone give me a turbo, a car, and 2k for parts and labor and they'll be running 4psi.(I would say 1k... but I dont want people to take me up on the offer... LOL)

Andrew

Posted by: Mueller Nov 8 2006, 01:35 AM

for $2K, I'd want more than 25hp for my car...if you are going to turbo, go for some "real" numbers that'll move the car along....(180hp +)

i'd be embarrased to say I had a Turbo 914 and it barely put out 130 to 140 HP ...might as well have stock turbo Colt....

Posted by: Brett W Nov 8 2006, 10:18 AM

That's the thing, if we had more people out building turbo engines and blowing them up or making good power, you would have a similar level of knowledge for others to build upon.

Now I have to agree for 5K I would start looking at other engines, but a turbocharged 4 should make a decent 180-200hp. It will not be a setup you can sit on the highway and run 150+ for hours on end. It would be something you have to use with control. To bad the T4 isn't as strong as other engines.

Look at the Type 1 engines, there are many options out their for turbo charging. Those guys are making decent power with boosted engines.

Posted by: jwalters Nov 8 2006, 10:26 AM

Good thought - to add, the advances made by bringing out all aluminum alloy cases has all but cured the most vulnerable weakness of T1 engines. Yes, they are heavier, but are no longer as brittle or flex-prone. Many T1 guys get enormous power (N/A & Turbo) with fairly good longevity.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 8 2006, 11:42 AM

The tally here at Aircooled Heaven stands at four engines killed purposely in 2006 with Boost...

when I start releasing information from these learnings as well as some components a lot of things will change. (again)



In a car 3-500 pounds lighter than a 914 and all they care about is the Qtr mile... Boost for longer periods of time with more load on the engine is where things get critical.

development with Boosted TIVs will continue clear through 2007 here, I put aside a new cooling system that I have planed for the past 3 years to create in 2007 to give the time to boost..

I have a customer on the hook who is begging for a his project car to be equipped with a 2.7L, twin plugged,m roller cammed, Motec injected, Intercooled Turbo beast... He is willing to be the guinea pig...

But its not a 914 :-)

Posted by: Andyrew Nov 8 2006, 01:31 PM

Posted by: Sammy Nov 8 2006, 02:24 PM

content removed

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Nov 8 2006, 06:03 PM

The expense and work involved in properly turbocharging a Type IV probably compares well with doing a WRX conversion. I'm guessing thats why there isn't a ton of interest in a proper turbo kit. Not to mention that its not hard to get 300 RWHP from a WRX motor in a 914. I suspect that getting the same power from a Type IV would be either waaaay more epensive or much less reliable.

-Tony

Posted by: grantsfo Nov 8 2006, 07:58 PM

I was a Subaru conversion doubter until I saw a nice Renegade turnkey job. Wow 250+ horsepower and the install looks like stock. Anyone wanting a 250+ HP car with modern day reliability needs to take a look at this as an option.

Posted by: Pat Garvey Nov 8 2006, 09:33 PM

Yeppir! Sure can!
See Excellence, June 2002.

Posted by: jd74914 Nov 8 2006, 09:38 PM

But of course . . . 'tis a joke

Posted by: Pat Garvey Nov 8 2006, 09:38 PM

917 flat 12?

Yeah, could have chosen the 16, but that would be overboard!

Posted by: Sammy Nov 9 2006, 09:58 AM

content removed

Posted by: nein14 Nov 9 2006, 03:56 PM

6 years and still running perfect! 2.0 4cyl. Bosch CIS KKK 26 turbo. 9lbs. of boost on the street 200 HP, 14lbs. on 100 octane race fuel on the track


Attached image(s)

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Nov 9 2006, 04:00 PM

There's a KKK 26 turbo on eBay right now for about $25

Posted by: jwalters Nov 9 2006, 05:29 PM

Hey, what head temps do you get??

Posted by: jwalters Nov 9 2006, 05:31 PM

Boy, over 1100 views and only 86 votes ,

No wonder this country is in the pits - -

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 9 2006, 05:44 PM

Turbos are great for big hp gains but if you are competing in AX or time trials a turbo is going to bump you up to a higher level of competition. Not only that, adding a turbo isn't currently available as a bolt on since there are no complete kits available. A good deal of fabrication, including welding is required.
Engine conversions take too long and usually involve too much fabrication to be considered bolt-on IMO.
Tires are not a power enhancement. They only increase cornering potential, not acceleration.
Driving lessons are not a power enhancement, only a driving aid.
In reality there is only one choice for the most effective 914 bolt on power enhancement, and the poll supports this. The only other way to make much more power with a N/A engine is to split the case and put in a new camshaft along with everything else that entails.
Oh, and the upgraded exhaust system is a big plus if you do install a fatter cam.

Posted by: nein14 Nov 10 2006, 07:31 AM

head temp stay between 325 and 350, oil 180 to 200 degrees

Posted by: race914 Nov 16 2006, 10:51 AM

I bolted on some 'Tornados' and kicked ass on local outlaw yugo gangs

Posted by: p914 Nov 16 2006, 11:03 PM

Let's see. A simple bolt on power enhancement would be a bigger engine!!
Unbolt the old one and bolt on a bigger one.

Posted by: maf914 Nov 17 2006, 08:13 AM

For the 917/10 Can Am car, Porsche decided that the way to go was to turbo the flat 12 and discontinue developement of the flat 16 cylinder engine. They then applied this experience with turbocharging to various 6 cylinder based racing cars.

Posted by: maf914 Nov 17 2006, 08:17 AM

Sammy, Could you please explain why you make this distinction? Just curious.

Posted by: Sammy Nov 17 2006, 11:56 AM

content removed

Posted by: Sammy Nov 17 2006, 12:04 PM

content removed

Posted by: messix Nov 17 2006, 12:07 PM

a 'V ' designation for an engine configuration implies that the engine has its cylinders set in a "V" angle opposed to each other.

a flat or horizontally opposed engine implies that the cylinders are split and opposed from each other.

these desiganations have nothing to do with shared rod journals or the number of main journals.

Posted by: messix Nov 17 2006, 12:09 PM

Flat 12 engine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Flat 12, or "Boxer 12" as it is sometimes called, is an internal-combustion engine which employs twelve cylinders aligned in a horizontal fashion. This engine is similar to the more common V12 engine, except for the fact that the twelve cylinders are aligned horizontally so that the engine is for the most part "flat", hence the name

Posted by: Sammy Nov 17 2006, 01:50 PM

content removed

Posted by: Mueller Nov 17 2006, 02:09 PM

Sammy is correct as per the Airframe & Powerplant Mechanics Powerplant Handbook, page 11.

Printed by the US Department of Transportation, Federal Aviation Adminsitration

Posted by: jwalters Nov 17 2006, 04:42 PM

Has anybody seen the article of the dude that took two kawasaki six cylinder blocks ( upper case halves) and made a new crankcase and had falicon make a new crankshaft to become a V-12 motorcyle engine??


2600 cc's of 14000 rpm fury!! Somewhere on the order of 300 HP, normally aspirated -



Imagine THAT engine with a stout enough crank mated in a teener chassis...

Talk about bragging rights!

Posted by: JPB Nov 17 2006, 06:54 PM

I think the cheapest way is to install a 911 250MPH speedo meter and just tell everyone its a screamer and that you drive the speed limit because you are a good citizen.

You want real hps? Bolt on a V8 or a suby 2.5 WRX STI.

Posted by: messix Nov 17 2006, 07:13 PM

who would call a engine that has not have its cylinders at an angle of 180 degrees a "V" engine? maybe i missed that day in geometry where when two points 180 degrees from each other intersect at a common point between them on the same plane can be called a "v" tangent.

as for the engine configuration an engine that fires at 180 degress would only fire a power stroke at 0 and 180 degrees[6 cyl. at a time]. is this what they are saying? or does it fire every 60 deg. [2 cyl at a time]? or 30 deg. 1 cyl. at a time?
if your talking about how the crank is cofigured a share rod journal as opposed to non- shared doesn't matter, it would just make the case length longer. the firing order and timing do not make an engine that has its cylinders 180 deg. to the crank shaft a "v " engine.

i'd like to see that A&P section scanned.

no wonder ariplanes fall out of the sky.

Posted by: Cloudbuster Nov 17 2006, 07:33 PM

The problem with this definition is that it implies that 'V' configuration and '1 crankpin for each pair of cylinders' are synonymous, and this isn't the case. "Two cylinder, V shaped engines with separate crank pins for each cylinder are more properly called "V-2" engines, however, proper identification of V-2 engines is uncommon."

Posted by: messix Nov 17 2006, 07:40 PM

i wonder how you and i both quoted the same source with different definitions.

Posted by: Mueller Nov 18 2006, 11:27 AM

I'll have to see if I can find my notes from school where we discussed this issue with the boxer verses "V"...it has to do with the "throws" and shared journals....it really depends on the crankshaft, so you yes, you can have a true 180° flat 12 and you can have a 180° flat "V" 12...the former crank design is not as common

and it was not discussed in geom. it was the Powerplant/Engine class....

Posted by: PinetreePorsche Nov 24 2006, 02:40 PM

A lot of faiarly cheap power and a few good years--just what most of us want. So can you draft out the whole conversion you did for us to follow? What fuel feed source--EFI or carbs? Who's ? What was approx total cost (starting w/a good motor)? Some of us would love to experiment a bit if we had good guidelines (and temp. monitoring at the cylinder head). -Chris H.

Posted by: jd74914 Nov 27 2006, 04:43 PM

Chris,

CIS is MFI. It was used in rabbits and 2.7L /6 engines. I don't know how he did his his conversion, but many people in the watercooled world have done CIS turbos (though they usually use the later version of CIS as found in MkII IIRC, golf/rabbits).

Posted by: Drums66 Aug 29 2009, 01:41 PM

1. decent muff system
2. periodic maintenance
3. electronic ignition
4. Tires

Posted by: J P Stein Aug 29 2009, 03:00 PM

CIS & MFI are entirely different animals.

Years back, Wayne Baker used a BMW (2002 IIRC) MFI set up on his IMSA 914 4 banger race car. He was very successful.

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 29 2009, 07:50 PM

Yep, I mis-typed. CIS is a mechanical fuel injection system since the pump is the only thing that needs to be electrically powered, but not MFI like found on old bimmers and long hood 911E/S's.

Posted by: bandjoey Aug 29 2009, 10:15 PM

If the truth is told...lots of 914 owners <from my point of view -and yes Elvis and Michael Jackson are DEAD> look at the $400 bolt limit as what we can spend and hide the receipts from the better half! Bill

Posted by: moparrob Mar 22 2011, 01:58 PM

my favorite bolt on is Chappy's engine

Posted by: rohar Mar 23 2011, 08:56 AM

CIS is a great simple system and adapts to boost easily. Add a boost sensitive WUR from a Volvo or Audi turbo and the fuel system is taken care of. In the early days of boosting rabbit motors, a LOT of us did it. You would still need to deal with remapping the spark advance curve, not sure how to do that with the stock parts available for the type IV, so you'd probably end up with aftermarket ignition.

After about 3 years of a bunch of us mucking about, we found the limits of CIS pretty quick. It's simple to get installed and started, but it gets complicated to tune. Because of that, a LOT of us went to Digifant I injection sourced from G60s. Cheep, easy and more than capable. I'll bet it'd even adapt to a TypeIV pretty easily.

The result of all those mistakes was eventually summed up into a single doc: http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/easy200.html

You'll find the same doc all over the 'net

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jun 30 2011, 02:09 PM

if I could vote again after driving my 914 for 4+ years, I would still vote for "complete exhaust"

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 30 2011, 03:55 PM

Who keeps digging up these old threads?

Posted by: patssle Jun 30 2011, 05:04 PM

n/m delete

Posted by: Ductech Jul 19 2011, 11:07 AM

Wow with a DTM and an ecu setup to control it that is really not to spendy considering the engineering costs to develop a kit that works well and doesn't detract from the original setup. I hate to hear that the teener's didn't just jump all over that. And I am sure you picked just the right turbo, so it spools nice and quickly.

Tis a shame.... Raby if i had a TIV and some money I would be buying a kit from you.... hell i wish i had a type 4 so i could run that sick cable pull linkage setup you made for independent carbs or throttle bodies.

Keep up the good fight Raby

Posted by: Series9 Oct 22 2011, 09:41 AM

This is the best one:


Attached image(s)

Posted by: get off my lawn Nov 3 2011, 05:45 PM

There aint nothing, and I mean nothing like the feeling you get when the intake manifold pressure goes positive.

Posted by: dflesburg Nov 4 2011, 07:50 AM

there is no replacement for displacement.

Posted by: iamchappy Dec 9 2011, 05:57 PM

Solid Rocket Boosters but hard to control..

Next best thing ..... My engine....Ha

Posted by: iamchappy Dec 9 2011, 05:59 PM

Some of the Red Heads featured in the Hot Chicks Thread......Ha