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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Using mid 70's 911 rear hub-centric axle flanges
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 11:05 AM
I don't have my car here to get measurements so I am hoping someone has dealt with this. I have 69 911S flanges and stub axles (108mm cv's) that work perfect but the flanges are not hub-centric. I would like to modify a set of 77 hub-centric flanges to work if possible since I have an extra pair.
I know the bearings are wider on the 77 flanges. Anyone know what they did different? Is the flange overall length wider to allow a wider bearing or is the bearing fit area machined further towards the flange itself making a wider fit area? Since I have a lathe, I can modify......
Anyone used these?
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 11:17 AM
I have not yet used them, but since more years used those flanges, I am interested in finding out the answers you seek.
If you already have a pair, why not measure them.
I believe that the aluminum trailing arms were simply machined deeper than the steel ones to accept the wider bearings. I am assuming that the bearing area (the area that the bearing rides on the outer flange of the hub) is wider on the later cars. I would also assume that the use of an appropriate spacer (to fill the area where a bearing would have been) would be an alternate to turning down the hubs as you mention.
I only have possessed the early (lug centric) versions of the hubs as that is what we run, so I don't know all the details of the later model (1974-1989) 911 outer hubs.
Please post some pics.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 11:33 AM
If you already have a pair, why not measure them.
Thanks John, like I said above, I don't have my car here to compare or this would be easy.....I can measure the 911's now.
If the factory machined the bearing fits further into the flange, a simple spacer will fix the problem. If the hubs are actually longer overall to get the wider fit, machining may be in order...Someone must have tried this....
I'm assuming the spline is the same internally? I don't want to lose my 108mm stub axles.....
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 11:42 AM
When I get home, I can measure an early 911 hub if that will help.
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 11:44 AM
I know for a fact that the internal splines are the same. We are using Carrera axles (outer stub axle is part of the axle assembly) with early hubs.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 12:02 PM
OK, that's great. Sometime today, I'll post dimensions of the later flange....
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 12:16 PM
OK, that's great. Sometime today, I'll post dimensions of the later flange....
Then I can post comparable dimensions from the early hub.
Then we should both know the story. (Since I want to do this as well)
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 02:31 PM
OK, here we go......Flange is off a 1977 911
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 02:35 PM
Since you made such good pics, I'll just post dimensions and reference your (new) dimensions to my (old) dimensions. It's only a couple hours before I get to go home.......
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 02:46 PM
And this is why we want this type flange. The raised portion in the center locates the wheel instead of the lug nuts. The other type of flanges are flat all the way across.......Hub-Centric is a much better method of wheel locating than lug nuts
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 02:53 PM
That, and I think more of them are the hub centric type than the early ones some people want a mint for. (I'm looking for less expensive, more readily available parts......)
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 03:00 PM
John, I labeled the pictures. Should be easier for you to respond.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 26 2006, 03:02 PM
I only have a pile of early bearings in stock currently but I believe the OD on the bearing is larger as well.
Early 911 should be:
35.5mm length of shaft vs. your 40.8mm
42mm diameter of shaft vs. your 42mm
68mm total height vs. 69mm (could be straight edge fudge factor)
33mm base to face vs. your 28mm
Let's see what John comes back with.
Looks to me like they simply machined more off the backside of the hub for the longer bearing. I believe it's fatter to though (OD of the bearing) as the handbrake assembly changed to a larger bolt spacing with this new bearing.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 03:09 PM
Eric, if you are right, a simple spacer installed over the flange will allow these to work.....
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 26 2006, 03:50 PM
5mm correct-a-mundo
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 26 2006, 03:54 PM
Costco = Best deal on latex gloves 
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 04:09 PM
Costco = Best deal on latex gloves
Damn, you are right....I found a pair with your name on it.....
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 26 2006, 05:58 PM
HEY! Wait a minute... that's mean 
Posted by: Headrage Dec 26 2006, 06:18 PM
HEY! Wait a minute... that's mean
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 06:28 PM
I measured one. (Eric, I still have no word from USPS on the lost hubs, I'm guessing they are gone for good.)
A. 68.50 mm
B. 32.40 mm
C. 36.10 mm
D. 42.01 mm
These are real close. I tried in several spots around the hub.
They agree pretty much with what Eric found.
It looks like a 5+/-mm spacer would work nicely with the late model hubs.
Good info in this thread.
Time to go shopping......
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 06:31 PM
Good Job...The spacer would have to be absolutely perfect or the rotors and wheels will wobble. Also, a small amount off that close to center would be huge at the tire tread....
Posted by: smdubovsky Dec 26 2006, 06:52 PM
Subscribing... (this is a cool thread)
Its relatively easy to make perfectly parallel spacers on a lathe - a simple parting operation. That said, *I* dont think it makes THAT much difference. Radial and axial runout of the hub/wheel are controlled by the bearing. The bearing should be pressed onto the hub & stubaxle and their diameters control the locating. The lip on the stub or the spacer really only locate the race. The force from the big axle nut will try to distort the race slightly if the spacer isn't parallel, but it would REALLY have to be out of parallel to twist stuff enough to show up @ the wheel.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 07:06 PM
Subscribing... (this is a cool thread)
Its relatively easy to make perfectly parallel spacers on a lathe - a simple parting operation. That said, *I* dont think it makes THAT much difference. Radial and axial runout of the hub/wheel are controlled by the bearing. The bearing should be pressed onto the hub & stubaxle and their diameters control the locating. The lip on the stub or the spacer really only locate the race. The force from the big axle nut will try to distort the race slightly if the spacer isn't parallel, but it would REALLY have to be out of parallel to twist stuff enough to show up @ the wheel.
I posted that above so people would understand the concept and wouldn't cut a spacer with a hack saw and think it was OK.
......It's not. Not everyone has a machine shop.....
Posted by: John Dec 26 2006, 08:06 PM
Good Job...The spacer would have to be absolutely perfect or the rotors and wheels will wobble. Also, a small amount off that close to center would be huge at the tire tread....
The bearing is still what centers the wheel and makes the hub run true. The spacer, however, if not close to perfect could put uneven side loading (preload) on the bearing.
I type slow with one hand. (My son is in my other arm.)
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 26 2006, 11:23 PM
Just got an e-mail from Jim Patrick. The later flanges did indeed use a bearing 5mm wider and 5mm larger.. He has used a 5mm spacer with good success. So it looks like we are in good shape with this mod. 
John, I might have an extra set of flanges I could sell. I know I have 3 right now and when it quits raining I'll look to see if I have another.
Posted by: John Dec 27 2006, 12:32 AM
Just got an e-mail from Jim Patrick. The later flanges did indeed use a bearing 5mm wider and 5mm larger.. He has used a 5mm spacer with good success. So it looks like we are in good shape with this mod.
John, I might have an extra set of flanges I could sell. I know I have 3 right now and when it quits raining I'll look to see if I have another.
Thanks.
Posted by: addwestern Dec 27 2006, 04:23 PM
Costco = Best deal on latex gloves
Damn, you are right....I found a pair with your name on it.....
Paul, a few times I thought you had an exact set for me....
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 27 2006, 04:45 PM
Nate, I have a whole box for you..... 
OK, I made a couple of spacers today. All worked well except they require quite a chamfer to clear the radius on the flange. They should be ready to bolt on. Here they are....
Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 27 2006, 05:31 PM
oooh! these are VERY SIMILAR to what you need to run 944 stubs!!!
they require a spacer to go where the dust seal went....
interested in banging out a pair for some $$$?
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 28 2006, 01:24 PM
Aaron, if I get 3 or more who want them, I would machine them for $25.00 a set plus a couple of bucks for shipping. If you want a one item specific machine job, send me a PM.....
Posted by: 96744 Dec 28 2006, 02:35 PM
I'll take a pair.
Posted by: roadster fan Dec 28 2006, 02:39 PM
Hey Paul,
nice job on the spacers. I would like a pair for the mid 70's hubcentric stub axles. If you dont have enough interest to keep the price down let me know what they will cost, and let me know where to send the $.
Thanks,
Jim
Posted by: echocanyons Dec 28 2006, 03:22 PM
Kinda looks like the metal spacer ring on the front spindle of 911's 65-89.
Probably not the same diameter but might be worth a look.
I think I have a set at home I could measure.
Posted by: Paul Illick Dec 28 2006, 03:53 PM
Aaron, if I get 3 or more who want them, I would machine them for $25.00 a set plus a couple of bucks for shipping. If you want a one item specific machine job, send me a PM.....
I'll also take a pair for the 944 stubs. Tell me how much and where to send it.
Thanks,
Paul Illick
Posted by: PRS914-6 Dec 28 2006, 04:47 PM
Guys, I want to make sure we are clear on this. I don't know what the 944 hubs require and I don't want to make spacers for you only to find they won't work. These will for sure take care of the 911 flanges. If the 944 are similar but different dimensions, the same price and 3 minimum apply.
Getting the material and the setup/cleanup is the time consuming part. The actual machining time is not bad but for one set, it's not worth it.
Someone needs to confirm measurements for the 944....Aaron?
Posted by: Mark Garriott Dec 28 2006, 05:00 PM
Under the "Somebody's already done that..." heading,
Patrick Motorsports makes the spacers too -- P/Ns PMPCASPO and PMPCASPI.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Feb 25 2007, 12:13 PM
I sold my spacers to another member and I'm going to make more this week. If anyone wants a set for $25.00 (and a couple of bucks shipping) let me know soon. This would be spacers for the 911 hub centric flanges.
Posted by: shoguneagle Feb 25 2007, 05:42 PM
I would be interested in a set of spacers for the early 911 stubs. I do not have the centric type for the rims but have early 911(69-72?).
I saw on one of the boards where someone made up centric spacers that fit between the rim and the stub shaft. The rim side was machined to fit the particular rim being used; the hub side was machined to fit inside flange where the nut is located and held in place by an o-ring.
Let me know what is happening.
Steve Hurt
914-6GT (3.2 Carrera engine, Carrera front suspension, Carrera brakes on all four corners.)
Posted by: Paul Illick Feb 25 2007, 06:01 PM
I sold my spacers to another member and I'm going to make more this week. If anyone wants a set for $25.00 (and a couple of bucks shipping) let me know soon. This would be spacers for the 911 hub centric flanges.
I'll take a set. PayPal? Tell me where to send it.
Posted by: Aaron Cox Feb 25 2007, 06:36 PM
Guys, I want to make sure we are clear on this. I don't know what the 944 hubs require and I don't want to make spacers for you only to find they won't work. These will for sure take care of the 911 flanges. If the 944 are similar but different dimensions, the same price and 3 minimum apply.
Getting the material and the setup/cleanup is the time consuming part. The actual machining time is not bad but for one set, it's not worth it.
Someone needs to confirm measurements for the 944....Aaron?
i can measure the 944 stubs i have if anyone is interested..
Posted by: John Feb 26 2007, 01:01 AM
I sold my spacers to another member and I'm going to make more this week. If anyone wants a set for $25.00 (and a couple of bucks shipping) let me know soon. This would be spacers for the 911 hub centric flanges.
I would like 1 set please. PM me your payment method and a shipping amount. I have a pair of the hubs now. For $25, I can't make them myself.
Posted by: Luke M Feb 26 2007, 08:52 AM
I'll take a set of spacers for the late 911 hubs. I would like to know if the spacers work on the 944 hubs also. Aaron let us know on the 944 hubs. Pm me with payment info.
Luke
Posted by: PRS914-6 Mar 5 2007, 08:56 PM
OK guys, I have 5 sets of spacers made for late 911 flanges. I do not know if they work on 944 flanges without seeing one. Cost is $27.00 per pair including shipping in the USA. Those who previously requested them will get priority. I can make more if needed.
Paypal to paul@sayegh.org
Posted by: John Mar 5 2007, 09:18 PM
OK guys, I have 5 sets of spacers made for late 911 flanges. I do not know if they work on 944 flanges without seeing one. Cost is $27.00 per pair including shipping in the USA. Those who previously requested them will get priority. I can make more if needed.
Paypal to paul@sayegh.org
paypal sent.
Posted by: woobn8r Mar 5 2007, 09:34 PM
Hello Paul,
Just found this thread....I'm in for a set.
But I'm up in Canada....I'll send you USD if you tell me what you need.
Thanks,
Sean
Posted by: Paul Illick Mar 6 2007, 05:27 AM
PayPal sent (I had dibs early)
Posted by: Luke M Mar 18 2007, 04:26 PM
By adding the spacer arent you pushing the hub out that much more ?
I may be wrong just wanted someone to clear that up for me.
Does any one have a late and early hub that could take some measurements?
I may have a late hub machined to fit a 914 bearing and use a 944 stub axle/cv.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Mar 18 2007, 06:08 PM
By adding the spacer arent you pushing the hub out that much more ?
I may be wrong just wanted someone to clear that up for me.
Does any one have a late and early hub that could take some measurements?
I may have a late hub machined to fit a 914 bearing and use a 944 stub axle/cv.
The later 911 flanges are machined 5 mm more towards the flange face. By installing the spacer, it makes the flange the same dimensions as a 914 or early 911
Posted by: barrym Oct 27 2015, 03:42 PM
dragging up an old thread - does anyone know where I can purchase the 5mm spacer required for installing the mid 70's 911 stud hub to a 914 rear bearing ?
Posted by: 914Sixer Oct 27 2015, 04:35 PM
Patrick Motorsports has them on the web site.
Posted by: barrym Oct 28 2015, 04:39 AM
thanks - just found that !
also found the $90 shipping fee to Australia !!!!!!
Posted by: Luke M Oct 28 2015, 07:00 AM
thanks - just found that !
also found the $90 shipping fee to Australia !!!!!!
I had a buddy of mine that use to work at a local machine shop make me a set.
It can be easily done just find a shop local to you and tell them what you need.
There maybe a minimum number for them to have made but worth a shot.
It didn't cost me much but a few
I'll dig mine out and post some pics later today.
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