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Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jan 6 2007, 03:27 PM

Well I signed up for the group buy of GT metal flares so now I want to know how to install these. I have a mig welder and am a fair welder so my intention is to install these myself. Once you cut the fenders ( hopefully correctly ) you line the flares up and tack them in place right? Once tacked do you run a continous bead or do you do spaced welds? Once tacked/welded then you grind the welds flush? And then do your skim coats of bondo to finish? Any online forum how to's on this? I know that the least amount of heat is good to keep warping to a minimum but any tips are appreciated. Thanks

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 6 2007, 03:45 PM

I am not a welder and therefore no one to depend on for the blow by blow installation, but have seen it done by our men often enough to say the following:
The flares are thick enough that warping is more minimal than with thinner sheet metal panels. When installing though no one here has run a continuous bead as that will guarantee a warp!
The flares are easy to line up by matching the wheel well keeping the exact same front to rear opening as well as the same lip height. After welding they are ground flat and metal worked with a minimum of filler. Since the factory did it and designed the original flares, they are made to easily fit the 914.
The plus is that we when producing our replicas, borrowed an orginal old set from Jim Bailey at Brumos and had them scanned in Detroit with the guys there remarking that the flares were not mirror images of one another! Therefore we combined the two front scans and then spit out perfect mirrors, so left and right are now more identical than the originals ever were. We did the same with the rear as well. There is also plenty of material in the flare for the crunched fender set!

Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:04 PM

What i do is carefully positon the flair in the correct locaton, and fasten it with Clecos.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:06 PM

And like this


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:15 PM

I don't have a pic of the actual cutting, but I use an air powered body saw, that's like a jigsaw. I barely cut the edge of the flair and the underlying fender at the same time, so you have a perfect seam. Then I clamp the two pieces, as I cut, with some panel clamps for butt welding panels together, and tack weld the flair on to the fender following the cut line.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:18 PM

Here's what it looks like after it's cut and tacked all the way around. The small tack beads are as large as I weld. I just make small beads all the way around, using a copper spoon on the back of the weld seam to defer heat and keep from blowing through.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:28 PM

I didn't take a pic of the top side of the flair with all the small tack welds, but here is what it looks like from the underside, after it's been tacked solid all the way around.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:37 PM

After it's all welded up nice and solid I carefully grind the welds with a flap wheel type grinder. If you use a hard wheel grinder you'll make too much heat and end up with warpage. Grind a little and move on to another area. I also use a spot light under the fender to find any pin holes. When you get done it should look something like this.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:43 PM

I've never installed an AA set, but the factory flairs don't fit right at the bottom, and require some work to fit good. The factory flairs aren't a great fit in general.

Here's the bottom of the factory flair before any work was done. The bottom edge of 914 panels have a 45 degree bevel, that the factory flairs do not have. I don't know if AA flairs have a bevel or not.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:45 PM

Here's the bottom of the flair after some work.


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Posted by: 9146986 Jan 6 2007, 06:49 PM

And when it's all done it will look just like this! The owner was happy!


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Posted by: rfuerst911sc Jan 6 2007, 07:54 PM

The pics are great. For some reason I thought the flares were welded "on" the fender skin not butt welded. Do you dress the tack welds on the underside or leave them as is? Do you prime and paint the underside only or do you add undercoating? So you do end up welding the entire seam but it is done by spot tacks and you move around the flare to keep the heat down. Is the copper spoon something that can be purchased at welding shops? Thanks

Posted by: ptravnic Jan 6 2007, 08:05 PM

Perry - If you don't mind me asking, what (ballpark) do you charge to install a set? I picked up a set in Dec and am looking to get them put on in the next month or so. I might be willing to drop off my car @ your shop & let you have your way w/it. Maybe PM me if you are uncomfortable listing rates on the general board?

-pt

Posted by: Travis Neff Jan 6 2007, 08:50 PM

This thread should be in the classics

Posted by: 9146986 Jan 7 2007, 12:22 AM

Yes, I do go over the welds on the underside with a grinder and/or carbide burr, and then it gets self etching primer, primer, and then paint.

Yes, the entire weld seam is made of small tack welds, and yes it's to keep warpage to a minimum.

I got my copper spoon from Eastwood, but they may be available elsewhere.

Posted by: Hoss Jan 7 2007, 12:54 AM

I completely agree. I would not add flairs to my present 914, but if I found the right additional car, this is a serious upgrade path.

Thanks for the excellent pictures and sharing your process, Perry. If you do another set and can fill in the details it would be greatly appreciated.

Sure wish you were closer to San Diego.

Cheers,

Jeff

Posted by: seanery Jan 7 2007, 09:25 AM

Great Question!

AWESOME Response!!

Posted by: 9146986 Jan 7 2007, 09:52 AM

Thanks guys! I had planned to take step by step photos, but that in itself is a little time consuming. I'll try and do a better detailed step by step when I get to that point on the current project car.

Posted by: cooltimes Jan 7 2007, 10:47 AM

I hope this post relates to the subject. If not, I apologize to all.

Someone may also like to see and save this link along with PK's excellent tutor on how to do flairs right. It is a 356 being restored page. Very detailed and well suited for the challenge of doing excellent craftsmanship skills shown in this thread.

http://www.brown-house.net/356project/archives/2004_07.html

Mike Cooley

Posted by: Hoss Jan 7 2007, 11:39 AM

Thank you, Perry. I know it is a pain in the ass to photo and document a process while you are in the heat of the battle. On the flip side, the real value of having someone make the time and effort to get it done is difficult to overstate. Content, including your contribution to the Lapuwali classics, is really where the gold nuggets reside. The recent intensity to restore technical content on these board(s) is an indication of how much this community appreciates it.

Looking forward to your further updates when you get to them, and thanks again!

Posted by: echocanyons Jan 7 2007, 11:53 AM

Classic!

Posted by: dgw Jan 7 2007, 01:02 PM

I'm also on the buy list, and am wondering WTF I'm doing. I would also be interested in a ballpark number to have these installed. I won't be doing it myself.

Oh, and Perry wouldn't be doing it for me, he is too far away.

Posted by: will Jan 7 2007, 01:24 PM

I am also considering a set, but I don't know how to weld. If we can get someone to do this at a central location where everyone can meet, I would certainly buy a set.

Posted by: STL914 Jan 7 2007, 04:04 PM

Here's a link to a thread following the progress of my 72 having a set of steel flares installed by Shebly, including pictures:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=49707&hl=

Posted by: scotty b Jan 7 2007, 04:30 PM

For you guys looking for a price, I obviously can't answer for Perry but my guess being in this line of werk would be around 40-50 hours to fully weld and metal finish the flares correctly. Figure on a MINIMUM hourly rate of $50.00 and depending on the region and shops rep. as much as $100.00 per hour. I personally wouldn't do it for less then $1500.00 fitted,welded,metal finished. BTW nice job Perry I had close to 40 hours in these 2 front flares alone, but obviously was quite a different process


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Posted by: scotty b Jan 7 2007, 04:34 PM

These were hand hammerd not welded on so it took a bit longer. Car after I painted it


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Posted by: thesey914 Jan 7 2007, 04:58 PM

That is one awesome car....Fiat 600?

Posted by: scotty b Jan 7 2007, 05:23 PM

Thanks. Yup 600. The owner wanted to clone a Mostra 1000 which there were only 5 built (IIRC) All I had to go by was a Japanese book on Italian race cars. I took the pics of the real car and scaled everything up to size using a pair of calipers to measure the pics and used the taillight as my piece to scale everything up to. Kind of a pain in the ass but fun at the same time. I enjoyed the 'challenge" Here's a link to some more pics and also a pic of the real deal Mostra. I unfortunatly had to leave that job this past summer due to a lack of steady werk. Va is a bad area to specialize in such oddball autos


http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=33399&hl=started+a+new+job

Posted by: dgw Jan 7 2007, 09:56 PM

Thanks Scotty, thats close enough. I was just trying to figure out if it was $100, $1000, or $10,000.

Then they have to be painted...

Posted by: bulitt Oct 6 2011, 05:40 PM

So do you all remove the gas tank prior to welding?

Posted by: scotty b Oct 6 2011, 05:49 PM

No, the tank is not close enough to the flares to worry about. Just keep the hood closed, and make sure you don't have any leaks

Posted by: mepstein Oct 6 2011, 05:54 PM

Wow, old thread.

Posted by: rfuerst911sc Oct 7 2011, 09:38 AM

And just so everyone knows I got all four welded and finished the job came out great. Thanks to all that originally chimed in.

Posted by: Perry Kiehl Oct 1 2017, 08:23 PM

Wow, this was a long time ago.