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Posted by: soloracer Jan 6 2007, 11:37 PM

Well there has finally been some progress made on my car so I thought I would start a build thread about it for those who are interested. I'll try to keep it updated as I go along.

I'll start off with an introduction to the project for those who don't already know. I bought a 914 with a Sheridan Motorsports wide body in an E-bay auction. The car was being set up for a Porsche 6 to be used on the track. It came with the wide body, a 915 transmission (mag case) that was converted to side shifter with a Vellios kit and the ring and pinion had been flipped. The front suspension is supposed to be from a 911 - don't know the year yet - and the car has a brand new set of Kinesis rims that appear to be 17x12 in the back and 17x10 in the front. Also included were a set of new tires 315's in the back and 285's in the front. The previous owner also had put a front mount oil cooler and a somewhat poorly welded roll cage.

Here are some pictures of the car:


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 6 2007, 11:54 PM

For a number of years the car has sat in my garage while I made up my mind what I wanted to do with the car. I determined that I wanted to make around 400 hp in a reliable fashion. At first I considered staying with the Porsche six as the original owner intended but after pricing out how much 400 hp would cost and what a potential rebuild was worth I decided to consider other options.

Naturally I considered the V8 route that so many here were doing and thought that I wanted something a bit more unique. So then I moved on to the Subaru engines considering both the 3.3 flat six from the SVX and the 2.5 turbocharged flat four from the WRX. I couldn't find anywhere that that people had modified the 3.3 engine and it appeared that there wasn't strong support for an engine build up so I decided not to go that route. This left the 2.5 turbo and it looked really interesting however I could not find an engine locally. However, I did find a turbo Toyota MR2 3SGTE engine and after some reading figured this would make a good alternative. So I bought the engine and continued to do my research.

As many of you know I also own RX7's and one day a group of us got talking about the 3 rotor engine - known as the 20b - and what the potential was for them. Several of my friends had rebuilt their own 13B's and we were all getting very self sufficient on fixing our RX7's. Needless to say our 20b talk got my mind working - what would be cooler and more unique than a 3 rotor 914? So I sold the 3SGTE and bought a 20b.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 6 2007, 11:58 PM

In my garage the engine, transmission and car sat for another few years while I continued to collect parts. In the meantime I bought an acreage with a 2400 square foot shop to work in. Here are pictures of the car as it sat in it's new and old homes:


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:07 AM

One day at one of our Porsche Club track events a BMW showed up that didnt' sound anything like a BMW. It was driven by Paul Botting - a son of one of the Porsche Club members. When he popped the hood nestled between the strut towers was a nice LS1 that looked as though it came from the factory. Paul installed this beast himself and was looking to participate in the track day. This car went like stink and proceeded to set some of the quickest times for the day. I really liked the professional look to the install and we struck up a conversation. I told him about my 914 project and he was hooked on the idea as I was. He just loved the thought of doing something that nobody else had done. So after some discussion I hired him to install the motor.

Here is a link to a short video of the LS1 BMW:

http://www.members.shaw.ca/fc3s/TrackDay/LS1BMW.wmv

Please use "Save As" and don't directly link to the file. Thanks.

Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:12 AM

I went to Kennedy Engineering ( http://www.kennedyeng.com/ ) and ordered their rotary to 915 adapter kit and a 915 HD pressure plate and upgraded clutch disk.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:18 AM

While trying to figure out how to accomodate intercoolers and plumbing for the 20b my good friend Max Travers - the local Rotary Guru - suggested going normally aspirated. He said that I if went with a peripheral ported 20B I could make 400 hp reliably and have a car that was more predictable at the track. I decided that this would simplify things a ton.

So I hauled the car and engine off to Paul and he began the job of stripping the engine and getting it mounted in the car. Here is a shot of the engine mated to the transmission. Paul has a polyurethane LS1 block that he uses to mock up the engine in cars and he wanted to compare the length to my 20b. Looks like it's pretty close to being the same size.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:24 AM

When Paul went to install the engine he found that it was going to be too long so I bought the Renegade Hybrids transmission blocks that you V8 guys use to shift everything back a few inches. I also purchased 4 WEVO semi solid engine and transmission mounts. Since the transmission was converted to side shifter I found an engine mount bar for side shifter on e-bay and purchased it.

Paul proceeded with getting the engine mocked up and this is where we are today. He found that he still had to make a cut in the firewall for the water pump and it looks like the firewall will have to be reshaped around the top of the water pump where the thermostat is to give adequate clearance




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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:30 AM

The plan is to build brackets that will bolt the engine to the bar which is in turn mounted to the chassis with the WEVO semi solid motor mounts. The plan is to use the three bolts holes above the bar (triangular - the bolt is in the bottom left part of the triangle). We will consult with Max to get his thoughts on this as he is the expert on the engine. Originally Max had wanted to build a baffle plate that had ears that we could mount to. He has worked in performance shops in Japan and said that the baffle plate would be strong and be a good place to mount to if the plate was made thick enough. However, Paul believes these existing bolt holes are good enough.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:34 AM

Paul also removed the front oil cooler that the previous owner installed and started to work on installing the Renegade Hybrids radiator system that I purchased to keep this baby cool. I will keep the oil cooler as I believe it is going to be necessary to have one on this engine and will probably find a place to mount it in the engine bay.




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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:40 AM

This is where we are at today. Paul is also going to work on the brake system for me. I have purchased a set of front and rear 1990 911 C2 calipers and rotors for this car. I will need adapters for them as the caliper bolt spacing is different than what is on the car. If anyone has information on where to get the adapters please let me know. I also purchased a pair of early 911 axles but the look to be too short and the bolt pattern on the inner CV doesn't match the output shaft of the transmission. Any ideas here are welcomed as well.

I've also wondered about the rear hub conversion that was done. Can anyone here tell me if these look like 914-6 units are are they just a drilled out hub with an extra bolt in them? Any help identifying what I have is appreciated.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:41 AM

Here is another interesting shot showing the chassis reinforcement made by the previous owner. It also appears as though the trailing arms are boxed. I have purchased Engman's longitudinal stiffening kit and will be building a new cage for the car. Hopefully this is sufficient to prevent any problems.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:44 AM

The car didn't have a steering wheel when I got it so I bought a used Momo Monte Carlo wheel and a quick release mechanism and installed them




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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:47 AM

I also ordered and received my independant throttle bodies (55 mm x 3) for the peripheral ports. I am going to use a Haltech E11 V2 for control of the engine. I'm still not sure what size injectors to go with but I do have a set of 1600 cc units that will probably find their way into this project.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 12:50 AM

Here is a picture of what I expect the car to look similar to when it gets completed. I have to thank a fellow teener for photoshopping the picture for me. The orange will probably be a little lighter - like that on a Lotus Elise - and the black will probably be more of a charcoal. But at least this picture will give everyone an idea of what I am going for.


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Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 01:04 AM

Here are three peripheral ported rotary housings courtesy of Mad Max Travers - rotary specialist - and one silly looking German gaurd dog wearing a cycling jersey because he can't stop scratching his stitches.


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Posted by: drive-ability Jan 7 2007, 01:10 AM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 6 2007, 10:40 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 01:20 AM

Thanks! The axles do have two dowels and 4 bolts from the looks of it. I notice that on the transmission side that the output shafts don't match the axle though. The axles also appear to be too short. Are adapters needed? What are the options for this build in terms of what axles to use?

P.S. Nice car. Bet it really hauls. I would like a 930 tranny as well but since this one came with the car I thought I would use it. Plus the 930 is only a 4 speed and mucho dinero. If I had to upgrade I think I would consider a Mendeola box like the sand rail guys use. A sequential shifter would be really something too. In my dreams though.......

Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 04:17 PM

I picked up a 915 transmission cooler on E-Bay for $750. It's from a European Carrera 915 transmission. Hopefully it's enough to keep things together in my transmission. Can't hurt right?


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Posted by: Mueller Jan 7 2007, 05:11 PM

that plastic V8 is pretty darn cool.....

how much does your 20B weigh??

Posted by: Dr. Roger Jan 7 2007, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 6 2007, 10:40 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Jan 7 2007, 07:22 PM

Mueller: I don't know how much the bare 20b engine weighs. I think we should weigh it before tearing it apart for the peripheral port and rebuild. Did you notice that on the plastic LS1 block you can bolt on all the pieces you normally would (ie: heads, headers, etc.) It makes life a lot easier for Paul when trying to fit that big chunk of aluminum in tight places.

Dr. Roger: Thanks for the link! I already bought the Patrick Motorsports shift linkage to go with my James West Rennshifter. I'll have to surf their website more to see what other goodies I might need.

To anyone out there: One thing that was brought up was that the oil cooler I bought may not work correctly with a 915 transmission that has a flipped ring and pinion. Does anyone here have any insight on this? Will the cooler work or did I just buy a nice piece of garage art?

Posted by: smrz914 Jan 9 2007, 12:34 AM

My rear breaks look really similar but i still haven't found a way to make the e-break work. any thoughts on that?

Posted by: soloracer Jan 16 2007, 12:48 PM

I found 4 peripheral port 20b videos on youtube. The first one in the series is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbwrQ2f-kLg&mode=related&search=

The other 4 are listed on the right side when you watch this video. By the end of the 4th video I got wood.

If Max can get my 914 to sound anything like that I will be ecstatic.

Posted by: turbo914v8 Jan 19 2007, 11:26 PM

Before you put the 20B back together you should investigate 3MM apex seals.

Posted by: soloracer Feb 4 2007, 01:06 AM

QUOTE(turbo914v8 @ Jan 19 2007, 10:26 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Feb 4 2007, 01:08 AM

On another note I am told that the engine mount is nearly completed. I will be sure to post pictures of how it looks when it's done.

Posted by: Rotary'14 Feb 4 2007, 06:45 PM

Just found your thread! I was on anoter site! my lazy @ss is back,,,, your build is getting me fired up again! If you don't want to cut your firewall,,, you might want to consider an electric water pump. stock BMWs come with them now,, all ECU controlled, and very sweet. There are others out there. just FYI. I like your project!!! More power too ya.

-Rob

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 4 2007, 06:48 PM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 7 2007, 08:22 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Feb 4 2007, 07:06 PM

ArtechniKa: I have come to the same realization. So if you know anyone who wants to buy a 915 Euro cooler let me know. I paid $750 US for it and am taking offers. Thanks.

Posted by: Heeltoe914 Feb 5 2007, 11:23 AM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Feb 4 2007, 05:06 PM)

Posted by: Rotary'14 Feb 5 2007, 12:10 PM

QUOTE(Heeltoe914 @ Feb 5 2007, 09:23 AM)

QUOTE(soloracer @ Feb 4 2007, 05:06 PM)

ArtechniKa: I have come to the same realization. So if you know anyone who wants to buy a 915 Euro cooler let me know. I paid $750 US for it and am taking offers. Thanks.

Do I see a cooler on the ground and if so who makes it? Is it a -12AN or what?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 6 2007, 07:03 AM

For those curious about the 915/67 Euro trans cooler stuff, here's the picture...


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Posted by: army dude Feb 6 2007, 07:44 AM

First off... You go!!! I will be watching this intently!! I will be putting the same body on my car when I get home and probably will be buggin ya for some extra photos.

I have a v8 in mine and I have a Meziere electric waterpump with one inlet and two outlets that I will use. It is the schiznit fo sho!! Part number 680wp337. I will have it mounted behind the driver and they say it is good for about 3000 hours before a rebuild in necessary but they have been having greater performance with them lately. They also say they have a 48 hr turnaround on rebuilding it. I think I can manage with that. It flows 55gph and having that with my electric fans will run for several minutes after shutdown to cool her off.

I also plan on some reinforcing in the car like your po did with the kits for the longs. I also want to cage it and supports in front as well.I am sure it is overkill but I will wait to hear what the other v8 gurus think.

Ok, now for the stupid question. I noticed your engine mount bar with a "hole" in it? Obviously for the shifter bar but WTF?? Mine doesn't have that mount bar and I am curious what gives? I plan on getting a new bar and adding a support bar to the rising bar but maybe I have the wrong bar in mine to begin with. Ideas on that??

Ian in Iraq...Again

Posted by: soloracer Feb 6 2007, 11:10 PM

Ian: Thanks for the nice response. The engine mount bar is a factory bar for a side shifter. If you are going with a side shifting transmission you will need one - I don't think it necessary for the stock tailshifter. I bet if you post here that you are looking for one someone will respond. I don't think they are extremely scarce as they show up on e-bay from time to time.

I considered the electric water pump but I like the reliability of the stock one. So for now I'm sticking with the good old mechanical pump.

As far as the reinforcing I think that there is a good thread here covering that topic and that the trailing arm ears are where the car needs it most. I'm glad the previous owner did what did to my car but from reading here I'm not sure that everything was extremely beneficial. If you are starting from scratch do a little search on this forum for advice as there is some good information.

If you are looking for more pictures of the body kit on my car let me know what you are particularily interested in and I will see what I can do.

I had two cousins in Iraq and all I can say is do your time and get the hell home as soon as you can.

Posted by: soloracer Feb 6 2007, 11:13 PM

QUOTE(Rotary'14 @ Feb 5 2007, 11:10 AM)

QUOTE(Heeltoe914 @ Feb 5 2007, 09:23 AM)

QUOTE(soloracer @ Feb 4 2007, 05:06 PM)

ArtechniKa: I have come to the same realization. So if you know anyone who wants to buy a 915 Euro cooler let me know. I paid $750 US for it and am taking offers. Thanks.

Do I see a cooler on the ground and if so who makes it? Is it a -12AN or what?

I do believe that's an intercooler,, but I could be wrong. What ya say Solo?

-Rob

Posted by: soloracer Feb 26 2007, 01:42 AM

Just a little update here. The engine mount is done and ready to go to painting and powdercoating along with the mounting bar. My builder did a really good job in building the mount in my opinion. It sits tight on the engine and uses existing bolt holes - in fact on the exhaust side it uses the engine mount holes. There is one hole that we have to tap but that should be minor. The mount bolts to the engine and then to the bar which in turn uses the factory mounting points. Feel free to comment with your thoughts guys. Here are some pictures:




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Posted by: Rotary'14 Feb 26 2007, 05:30 PM

Engine mount looks sweet!

Keep the pics coming.

-Rob

Posted by: djfamousa Mar 2 2007, 10:26 PM

Posted by: soloracer Mar 8 2007, 12:43 AM

Just a quick update. The engine will be going to the rebuilder in the next week or so. I also spoke to a cage builder and if all goes well we will come up with a game plan for the cage. The though currently is to do a 4 point in the interior with bars going through the back window to the rear towers and to the front towers - although I'm not sure of the routing to the front towers. There will be door bars but lower than the edge of the race seats. A bar will run along the floor on both drivers and passenger side (front to rear) and will be stitched to the longitudinals to add rigidity. At the firewall a typical diagonal bar and horizontal bar at the floor and just below shoulder height will be added. I also asked for extra at the firewall to prevent the engine from entering the cabin in the event of a rear end collision. At the front a bar will also go under the dash.

The thought is to keep the car driveable for the street if I so desire and with the ability to just add more bars in the doors and elsewhere if I plan at a later date to make it a wheel to wheel track only car.

Any suggestions for a cage are welcomed.

Posted by: db9146 Mar 8 2007, 10:10 PM

I had a chance to ride in a 914 powered by a stock 13B connected to a 901 and it was great. The characteristics of the engine worked very nicely with the 901 gearing. It really made me think twice about my 914s motivation.

I really like the sound of the yellow RX racer in the link above. You are really going to have a cool ride.

Posted by: John Mar 8 2007, 10:17 PM

Um, that isn't all the parts for the 915 pump/cooler. The intermediate section of the trans is also part of the setup. (I have a trans like that as well. Apparently the euro ones all or mostly had the coolers).

Posted by: John Mar 8 2007, 10:29 PM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 6 2007, 10:40 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Mar 10 2007, 12:00 AM

Thanks! I didn't know that. It makes sense though since the previous owner also installed the Vellios oil tank and Vellios Side Shifter conversion.

If I understand correctly you are saying my car hubs were converted and I should be able to use a 911 e-brake as well as 911 rear wheel bearings? From the looks of your signature you know a lot about these cars. What axles would you recommend? I bought a set of early 911 axles but it looks like they are too short and I will need an adapter of some kind to make up the gap plus adapt them to the 915 transmission. Any advice is appreciated.

Posted by: soloracer Mar 10 2007, 12:05 AM

QUOTE(Dr. Roger @ Jan 7 2007, 04:56 PM)

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 6 2007, 10:40 PM)

This is where we are at today. Paul is also going to work on the brake system for me. I have purchased a set of front and rear 1990 911 C2 calipers and rotors for this car. I will need adapters for them as the caliper bolt spacing is different than what is on the car. If anyone has information on where to get the adapters please let me know. I also purchased a pair of early 911 axles but the look to be too short and the bolt pattern on the inner CV doesn't match the output shaft of the transmission. Any ideas here are welcomed as well.

adaptors can be found at Patrick Motorsports @

http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/cgi-bin/main?cat1=TR%41NSMISSION&cat2=&cat3=

Great looking work.

Posted by: John Mar 10 2007, 12:46 AM

You need to measure the cv joints on the 911 axles you bought.

I believe that you would be using 1974-1984 911 CV Joints.

With a little creative machine work, those cv joints will fit on 914-6 axle shafts. (That is what I am using).

You may also be able to upgrade to the late model 911 Carrera axle assemblies. These assemblies include the outer stub axle replacing the one you already have installed. You just need to make sure the trans output flange will mate to it (this would be a good application for those PMS CV joint adapters because 911 axle assemblies are slightly shorter than 914 parts and the adapter would even it out nicely. PMS also sells the later model 911 axle assemblies (with the integral outer stub axle).

On the rear 911 e-brakes, (they are in place in the pictures) I am not sure how the Vellios e-brakes were actuated. I made my own belcranks that actuate the 911 e-brakes on my car. A few pics of that are in my BLOG.

Your car has some interesting parts on it.

Posted by: John Mar 10 2007, 12:53 AM

QUOTE(soloracer @ Jan 6 2007, 10:40 PM)

Posted by: soloracer Mar 15 2007, 12:36 AM

Thanks for the identification. That resolves a few questions I had. If you notice anything else feel free to post any time.

On another note I had a local roll cage builder spec out a couple of cages for my car. I was told that a basic 4 point would cost me $2K and a 6 point that tied to the shock towers with door bars would run close to $4k. Needless to say I was a little disappointed in those numbers. I know he does good work but I'm thinking I should entertain all options. Are these numbers representative of a well built cage where you guys are? Am I wrong for thinking that these prices are out of line?

Posted by: soloracer May 11 2007, 04:43 PM

Just an update: I'm still in the search for a cost effective cage. Not much progress made on the car lately but I haven't forgot about it. I'm putting a dyno in my shop and once it's set up I will start again on the 914.

Posted by: soloracer May 12 2007, 08:49 PM

I just read on another forum where they weighed the 20b bare engine, with flywheel, drysump and no boltons at 270 pounds. I haven't weighed mine yet but thought this was interesting enough to post. I would have to add the ITB assembly, alternator and exhaust manifold to get a good idea of the final engine weight. How does that compare to the subie or LS1's?