Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 9 2007, 09:02 PM

So after the recent noise with my 3.0l six I tried changing the throwout bearing, and that seemed to work, but the noise returnedf and I couldn't relly pin it down, it didn't really seem like the chains but I figured what the hell I will pull and inspect anyway.

Here is what I found. I thought oh good it's not the tensioners they look good.

Can you spot the problem?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 9 2007, 09:05 PM

Ahhhhhh... no.

Posted by: Martin Baker Apr 9 2007, 09:07 PM

I see Vic Elford...

Posted by: hmeeder Apr 9 2007, 09:07 PM

Lack of photo attaching skillz?

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 9 2007, 09:10 PM

OK it's now attached

Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 9 2007, 09:17 PM

Missing a set screw?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 9 2007, 09:19 PM

I know, two too many cylinders, and the cam is out on top of the head instead of inside the case where it belongs!!



OK, I can try to guess on that not-overly-familiar motor: The tensioner looks to be collapsed against the safety collar. That, and the idler sprocket mounting bolt (??) doesn't look like it's very well attached.

--DD

Posted by: Aaron Cox Apr 9 2007, 09:20 PM

piston failure safety collar is missing a screw

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 9 2007, 09:30 PM

Nope it's only missing half a screw , well I guess not missing it's prolly tucked away nice and safe in the case somewhere (unfortunately this is a late case with no sump plate).

Are these keepers really expected to hold the tensioner when it fails?

This is a picture of the back of the tensioner "saver" you can see the back of the screw still attached.

Kind of ironic that the tensioner guards failed and the tensioners are still fine huh?

Any easy way to retrieve this or am I looking at splitting the case?


Attached image(s)

Posted by: McMark Apr 9 2007, 10:07 PM

You can try a magnet, but it's a shot in the dark. You might get lucky. Here's an idea of where it went.

Of course, maybe the person who installed them overtightened them and snapped a head off while installing. In that case you wouldn't have anything dangerous in your motor.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 9 2007, 10:15 PM

Thanks for the picture! that looks like a late style case like the one I have (without the sump plate).

Did the oil pumps on the late cases came with screens?

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Apr 9 2007, 10:52 PM

Yes, they came with a screen. That tensioner looks collapsed. The collar should be 4mm above the tensioner body, and the piston usually sets farther out than that one. The loose collar wouldn't cause the noise, a loose chain would. Chains get loose because the tensioner bleeds down. Kits are available. I rebuild NEW tensioners before installation. The Cap'n

Posted by: Justinp71 Apr 9 2007, 11:13 PM

Is that the correct nut on the cam sprocket?

Here is my left sprocket on the 2.7.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Mike D. Apr 9 2007, 11:41 PM

with the CAP'T. I had the stops in my 2.0 6 and had one tensioner fail. The stop held but it did make a lot of noise, kind of resonates chain noise. And yes the safety stop is supposed to be in the middle of the piston not resting on the cylinder like the one in your pic.

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 9 2007, 11:57 PM

The only reason the safety collar is sitting on the tensioner body is because the collar is not held tight to the tensioner.

Do you think I need new chains, I plan to do the hydro tensioner change while I have it apart(unless you all thin otherwise)?

I am pretty sure they changed the cam/cam nut design in 82, my 80 engine looks like yours, this is an 83.

Posted by: John Apr 10 2007, 12:07 AM

Yes, that is the correct bolt.

Post 2.7 had different cam sprockets and use different holding wrenches.

Posted by: Justinp71 Apr 10 2007, 12:27 AM

oh... okay, I need to replace my chains also... (motor currently out).

I am planning on putting the fail safes on to...

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 10 2007, 12:34 AM

Justin, I am no expert but it looks like you may have some chain stretch, it looks like the clearance from your tensioner lever to the housing is really narrow, what does the other side look like?. EDIT oops I see you mentioned that in your post...

check this tread out http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291417&perpage=20&highlight=setting%20cam%20timing&pagenumber=1

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Apr 10 2007, 12:47 AM

I think the chain looks Ok but I would take echo's sudjestion and read

the pelican thread and check it while you are there. Thant goodness more damage

was not done.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Apr 10 2007, 09:55 AM

I certainly wouldn't waste my money, or that of my customer, on the silly tensioner changeover. The last version of the original chain tensioner is fine, and rebuildable. Why spend a bunch of money on something that can have the same failure problem?

This is one of the far too many times when the term "upgrade" is misused on the internet.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Mike D. Apr 10 2007, 12:04 PM

So what is your opinion of the Carerra Tensionsers? I was thinking about doing it to my 3.0, but for no other reason than "if everyone else is jumping off the bridge..."

Posted by: Justinp71 Apr 10 2007, 12:12 PM

Cap'n- are you talking about the 930 tensioner? New they're over $200 each and you can get the Carrera kit for around $489 from ebs racing. Why not spend the extra $50?

Also my tensioner appeared to lose some tension after the motor was sitting for about a week, but as soon as I turned the motor over they tensioned right up.

Is that a sign of a failing tensioner?

Posted by: echocanyons Apr 11 2007, 07:59 PM

Well the bolt came out through the engine drain plug with a little bit of coaxing.

Fortunately it was in one piece and didn't look banged up.

Now on to replacing the tensioners!