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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ the last of my parts
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 13 2007, 07:09 PM
finally got the last of my motor parts back from the machine shop. 
heads are now totally rebuilt and ready for action.
new SS valves, new seats, new guides, new HD springs, new retainers and keepers.
new flycut. no more cracks....only had one small one after 160K miles
hard to believe that these heads had 160K miles on them, to look at them now...all nice and shiney... 
here you go with some pics.
rebuild of the 2056 will get serious this weekend. 
a few pics of my other engine stuff
new KB 96mm flat top pistions, rods balaned and checked, new small end bushings.
Original Mahle cylinders bored and honed to 96mm
and the last pic is what the heads looked like about 2 months ago when I pulled them off the motor. 
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Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 13 2007, 08:15 PM
Look good
BUT please don't use those stock retainers and springs.
I also don't see evidence that the keepers were ground as they seem to be touching each other at both ends of the half moon..
Thats all minor stuff, but it can make a huge difference when going to any camshaft thats not 100% stock.
Posted by: doper Apr 13 2007, 09:11 PM
Be cautius (sp) ... Keith Black pistons arent all their cracked up to be .... they tend to break the top of the piston off ... trust me .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ...
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 13 2007, 10:54 PM
doper,
I have used HUNDREDS of sets of the KB pistons and currently have 130K on the set in my TIV daily driver.
I have pushed the KB pistons betond the realm they should ever be effective in and have NEVER had an RPM related failure. In fact we have only seen two piston failures with the KBs, both times the skirt clearance was incorrect and thats what started the inital issue. I make 200+ reliale HP with these pistons all the time and would RATHER USE THEM instead of a JE for 90% of my race engines!
You are a newbie, your title says so... Newbies don't come in sputing off their experience most of the time.
Ummn, a Type 4 isn't a two cylinder- guess what, other experience doesn't pertain to this engine... The guys that think it does cost themselves the most money through stupid mistakes.
But you did choose the correct user name :-)
Posted by: Twystd1 Apr 13 2007, 11:32 PM
Now about that dual exhaust...........
C
Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 14 2007, 08:24 AM
I have to agree with Jake, junk the stock retainers, keepers etc...if class rules allow it go with HD valve springs or atleast new ones!
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 14 2007, 10:08 AM
Hell, if you don't want to lose your investment you better change those retainers even if the rules DON'T allow it!
Posted by: So.Cal.914 Apr 14 2007, 10:26 AM
Now about that dual exhaust...........
C
Don't you mean duel expansion chambers?
Posted by: McMark Apr 14 2007, 10:26 AM
KBs have to be set up differently than other piston setups because of the Hypereutectic aspect. The rings get more heat and expand more so you need increased ring gap. Visit the KB site for a ton more info. If someone lost piston tops, my first thought is 'incorrect setup'.
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Apr 14 2007, 05:48 PM
" .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ..."
Oh? How about 47 years, 34 of them professionally ............................ ? And that's just me. The Cap'n
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 15 2007, 02:18 PM
here are a couple of shots of the crank with rods intalled and crank/rods sitting in case half.
Need to take the original cam to the machine shop to have the cam gear removed and indexed for the new cam....I did not notice when disassembling the motor that the cam was rivited to the cam gear, not bolted like the aftermarket Webb cam...
Oh well, at least we are making progress.
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 15 2007, 02:19 PM
and
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Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 15 2007, 07:25 PM
" .. I have more two cylinder air cooled experience then most of you combined ..."
Oh? How about 47 years, 34 of them professionally ............................ ? And that's just me. The Cap'n
Ya got me beat! I have only been doing this Aircooled crap for 40 years....
Dan, looks good. Did you have the rods modified with the oil groove?
Posted by: Pat Garvey Apr 15 2007, 07:44 PM
doper,
I have used HUNDREDS of sets of the KB pistons and currently have 130K on the set in my TIV daily driver.
I have pushed the KB pistons betond the realm they should ever be effective in and have NEVER had an RPM related failure. In fact we have only seen two piston failures with the KBs, both times the skirt clearance was incorrect and thats what started the inital issue. I make 200+ reliale HP with these pistons all the time and would RATHER USE THEM instead of a JE for 90% of my race engines!
You are a newbie, your title says so... Newbies don't come in sputing off their experience most of the time.
Ummn, a Type 4 isn't a two cylinder- guess what, other experience doesn't pertain to this engine... The guys that think it does cost themselves the most money through stupid mistakes.
But you did choose the correct user name :-)
I can say this....My company sponsored John Force for several years and, as such, I was in his pits for lots of rebuilds. There were weekends that the KB motors were piled up, with cracked blocks, but never saw a piston/cylinder failure (probably were some, just could be there all the time). Oh, I forgot to metion - these were running on nitro methane! Not sure, but it COULD make a little difference. My eyes are still runny & I can't hear squat, but what an experience! What!? What!?
Posted by: jwalters Apr 16 2007, 04:21 PM
I see what you mean , doper. You are referring to running on only two cylinders vs. four due to failures. This was meant instead of number of actual years and not some other aircooled engine. I am correct in my assumption, no??
Do not let the blow hards get you down. Nobody has the 'right' on here to tell you off and tell you to shut up because you are a nooby. This place is supposed to be informative and a good place to make jokes, assumptions, friends,etc etc. But not everyone does that here. The best thing is to just shrug it off and not worry about it at all. You will find that certain individuals would rather start a pissing match than have fun and kid around and such. But, I see you have already 'seen' this.
Newbie you may be, but by all means, share your experiences with the rest of us who are interested. I find, personally, that there is always something to learn from another -good, the bad, and the ugly...
7000+ other members may want to know - 
Posted by: jwalters Apr 16 2007, 04:23 PM
Looking good Dan. Who did your machining?? If I may ask?? Think you will have it running soon??
Posted by: jwalters Apr 16 2007, 04:27 PM
Hey Pat, Did JF use KB cast pistons in the top fueler??
Just trying to see the connection , if one, of KB's for a 914 vs. top fuel.....
I know of a couple of builders who have moved away from KB's - All I get from them is 'weird' failures. Whatever that means, they tend to keep secrets to themselves rather than share...
BTW - doper is a cool name -- 
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 16 2007, 04:51 PM
Those that set a KB piston up like a conventional forged piston will have different failures, generally these are the closed minded "Been doing this for 30 years" crowd.
I'll take a set of KB over a set of JEs any day. drive 23K miles on one oil change and see how little oil the KBs consume over that peiod and you'll be hooked as well.. At 100K my engine only had 5% leak down across the board- thats what a KB can do when PROPERLY set up.
FYI- The engine in my 912E was the FIRST engine we ever set up with KBs, that was 130+K ago. It's hard to argue with direct results and data acquired from field testing.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Apr 16 2007, 04:58 PM
Yup... regardless, we be newbie friendly here.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 21 2007, 11:56 PM
OK, if that is all settled....back to some motor stuff.
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 02:09 PM
a little more headway being made
some pics of a little more assembly and unfortunately some very dull old sheet metal 
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 02:10 PM
and
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 02:11 PM
and
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 02:11 PM
and last
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Posted by: JPB Apr 22 2007, 03:02 PM
Me likes the tuna can and Vans footwear perhaps? 
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 05:16 PM
everyone likes my shoes...
Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 22 2007, 06:19 PM
Now that you have the fan housing on, don't foget the front seal before installing the fan.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 07:40 PM
Now that you have the fan housing on, don't foget the front seal before installing the fan.
I still have to get the front and rear seals....so I haven't forgotten.
Posted by: Krieger914 Apr 22 2007, 10:33 PM
Orange ya glad you painted that corrosion prone fan housing?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 22 2007, 10:40 PM
I would have painted the case Phoenix Red if it would stick
Actually the shroud was supposed to be hammered silver but there was a miscommunication with the painter and he went wild with the orange. Now that I am getting it assembled I kind of like it....it is certainly different than everyone else's. 
It really doesn't matter since it is what is inside the motor that counts.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 24 2007, 04:36 PM
next installment...
new matched to 9550 cam lifters, pushrod tubes (with new viton seals), and stub pipes (with new copper gaskets) all installed....
Also installed brand new in the bag....CHT sensor.
the push rod tubes were put into place using a small strap wrench. Twist and push into place with out marring up those anodized new tubes
now we are ready for the valve train...possibly tomorrow afternoon
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Posted by: grantsfo Apr 24 2007, 05:20 PM
Youre going to have to bring a mirror to AX events to show off all that pretty orange paint and the gold pushrod tubes.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 24 2007, 05:48 PM
and then I can jack it up and remove one of the rear wheels
Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Apr 24 2007, 06:07 PM
Looks great! 
Posted by: Trevorg7 Apr 24 2007, 06:40 PM
Dan - it's looking great! Let me know when you are going to fire it up.
T
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 24 2007, 06:47 PM
Thanks Chris and Trevor.
Should be wrapping up the build in the next week or so.
Then into the chassis which has had the engine compartment stripped, any bad metal patched and repaired and painted to match.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Apr 28 2007, 02:27 PM
another update.
intake plenum on along with the majority of the engine tin.
still need some more new parts,
Oil pressure sender, injector "O" rings, new plug wires, new Bosch Blue coil, intake boots, throttle body gasket, and a few other assorted goodies.
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 5 2007, 07:47 PM
a little bit more head way...
injectors installed with new "O" rings and repainted retainers, intake runners on with new boots, throttle body, cold start valve, blue coil and air cleaner for effect.
you may need sun glasses
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 5 2007, 07:48 PM
and
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 5 2007, 07:48 PM
and
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 5 2007, 07:49 PM
last for today
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Posted by: Rotten Robby May 5 2007, 08:53 PM
The Flyin' Pumpkin!!!
Posted by: Borderline May 6 2007, 10:35 AM
That's looking great Dan. Makes me wish I had taken more time with mine. sure is a lotta oraaaaange. The "Flyin' Pumpkin"...I like it
Posted by: mikeyb33 May 6 2007, 02:50 PM
-- you're not gonna DRIVE that thing, are you?! It's TOO pretty !
: : D & R : :
-mike
(p.s. but seriously, your work looks really great, I'm envious. Please keep us posted.)
Posted by: StratPlayer May 6 2007, 02:58 PM
I love painted engines... 
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 12 2007, 04:39 PM
fuel line done except line that goes to chassis, vac and vent hoses complete expcept decel valve and MPS since they mount to chassis.
Rear main seal installed, flywheel torqued, Front main (pulley) seal installed, fan torqued, alternator installed and belt tensioned, dizzy installed and static timing set, plugs and plug wires installed....
just need to get it mated to tranny, along with clutch and PP and we will be ready to stab it in.
few more progress pics
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 13 2007, 01:35 PM
a few detail shots.
you will notice the polished stainless patch panels I made from thin guage stainless....attached with aluminum rivets, don't need any needed cooling air leaking thru the old heater openings
and some close up shots of some of the other details
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Posted by: Bleyseng May 13 2007, 01:48 PM
Dan, I see you left out the air control flaps. Did you install the flap so it directs air into the oil cooler? If you did show us a pic. 
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) May 13 2007, 02:08 PM
Dan, I see you left out the air control flaps. Did you install the flap so it directs air into the oil cooler? If you did show us a pic.
Geoff,
yes a I deleted the flap mechanism and the thermostat....
I did reinstall the flap on the passenger side and then riveted it into place to always direct air over the stock oil cooler....
Of course the driver side now directs air over the cylinders at all times now...so if we have some real cold weather in the late winter, early spring the car will be a bit cold blooded but I can deal with that....
I wanted to eliminate another possible breakage issue...and my motor building mentor suggested that modification for any stockish type4 914 track car motor.
I did not take a specific photo of the flap in place before I placed the engine tin...but the stock flap is connecting to the fan shroud in the stock location and then riveted in the down position to always direct air to the cooler.
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 2 2007, 08:57 PM
motor is in and cranks over
couldn't get the fuel pump to run....hummmmph
so we recheck everything we had done, all the relays, fuses etc....no power to pump....
found two cut wires.....body shop had cut the wires to the fuel pump
reconnect the wires that the body shop cut and presto.....the fuel pump runs...
ran out of time today so tomorrow we fire it up....hopefully...
everything else is done, just a few minor items and ?
put on your sun glasses for these pics
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Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 2 2007, 09:31 PM
Dan,
It sounded like you intended to do the transmission too... Did you change the plan?
The motor is beautiful. I bet that paint is as bright in person!
Rob
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 2 2007, 10:11 PM
Dan,
It sounded like you intended to do the transmission too... Did you change the plan?
The motor is beautiful. I bet that paint is as bright in person!
Rob
Yes, decided to leave stock tranny for now....start looking for gears and build another spare...
Also considering building a small displacement 6 next winter...
depends on how this motor performs... maybe a 2.2 or 2.4.
Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 3 2007, 12:14 AM
Dan,
It sounded like you intended to do the transmission too... Did you change the plan?
The motor is beautiful. I bet that paint is as bright in person!
Rob
Yes, decided to leave stock tranny for now....start looking for gears and build another spare...
Also considering building a small displacement 6 next winter...
depends on how this motor performs... maybe a 2.2 or 2.4.I assume you have driven and or ridden in many sixes being an instructor. They feel quite different. The power is intoxicating.
My tranny is in for a rebuild. Nothing too drastic. I just want to be able to downshift...
Where do you find gears. Are they available new?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 3 2007, 12:21 AM
Dan,
It sounded like you intended to do the transmission too... Did you change the plan?
The motor is beautiful. I bet that paint is as bright in person!
Rob
Yes, decided to leave stock tranny for now....start looking for gears and build another spare...
Also considering building a small displacement 6 next winter...
depends on how this motor performs... maybe a 2.2 or 2.4.I assume you have driven and or ridden in many sixes being an instructor. They feel quite different. The power is intoxicating.
My tranny is in for a rebuild. Nothing too drastic. I just want to be able to downshift...
Where do you find gears. Are they available new?
I have owned a 6. 2.7RS motor and yes the power and sound are intoxicating...but I really want the 2056 to work...
Gears are where you find them...usually used unless some one has some NOS stuff.
here is my 6
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Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 3 2007, 07:21 PM
it's alive...got it started and running this morning.
just some adjustments to make to the clutch, throttle, shift linkage and we should be ready for some test drives.
yippeeee
Posted by: Jake Raby Jun 4 2007, 06:13 AM
Outstanding!!!!! Did the cam break in process go well? What did you use for break in oil? (Critical)!
Posted by: Joe Sharp Jun 11 2007, 07:49 AM
Dan: Thats great to hear. Did you have to adjust the MPS?
Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 11 2007, 10:00 AM
Dan: Thats great to hear. Did you have to adjust the MPS?
that is a topic I will discuss at length in a few days.
but the short answer is Yes.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Jun 11 2007, 10:10 PM
Way KOOL Dan!!!!!
I have a 2056 D-Jet With a Webb 107i cam, ported and bumped comp. It started to come on after I got the mixture up to 13.5 to one under full load. I had an LM1 hooked up to it.
Good Luck.
Joe
Posted by: ThinAir Jun 12 2007, 12:31 AM
I haven't seen a mention of what cam you are running. Inquiring minds want to know.
Looking forward to your description of the adjustments that you had to make.
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