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Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 8 2007, 04:35 PM

Have you guys heard about the stolen 914 on Ebay? Purchased from Camp914 a year and a half ago and then stolen from the new owner. Ebay seller has been informed and is NOT stopping the auction. Claims he bought it legally! That actually sounds familiar. Orange and nice. This guy should seriously stop this auction before this plie of stromberg gets deeper...

Posted by: GWN7 Jun 8 2007, 04:37 PM

Link?

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 8 2007, 04:41 PM

yea...which one is it??? there are currently 9 on there...--JON

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 8 2007, 04:42 PM

I contacted Ebay and the seller and I see it has now been pulled. The seller actually sent me an email that was pretty smart assed and told me to stay out of it and that he had bought it legally. As if there is a way to legally buy a stolen car. Pretty sure there isn't... Perhaps away you would not be held legally responsible but not "legally".

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170118476223&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1

Posted by: GWN7 Jun 8 2007, 04:48 PM

VIN Number: 60406022348 Hmmmm?

When & where was it stolen?

Does the person who owned it when it was stolen been notified that it was listed on Ebay?

Posted by: SLITS Jun 8 2007, 04:51 PM

Hey ..... I know who could give excellent expertise in this matter!

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 8 2007, 05:03 PM

Owner knows. He wants his car back but the guy is claiming lein sale from towing company blah blah blah...

Posted by: GWN7 Jun 8 2007, 05:08 PM

Tell him to call the cops....we know how those lein sales work out

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jun 8 2007, 05:09 PM

Would that be the Death Valley Towing company?

Posted by: orthobiz Jun 8 2007, 05:16 PM

WOW! What a story! My 914 was sold (legally) from 914world earlier this year. Owner posted over 100 pics on photobucket and I recognized it IMMEDIATELY. I missed buying it by two days.

Anyway, what is really cool about these cars is how they're instantly, undeniably recognizable from the description and a few pics. When I told people how MY old car was on the internet for sale, the most common thing I heard was "oh, you mean a car LIKE your car" or "how do you know it's YOUR car."

Like there's any possible way a mother wouldn't recognize her kid on a milk carton!

So...the upshot of the whole thing is,

THIEVES BEWARE! The 914 community is watching!

Paul

Posted by: JPB Jun 8 2007, 08:19 PM

BUUUUUURN HIIIIM!!! He turned me once into a newt. I got betta.

Posted by: skline Jun 8 2007, 10:08 PM

The control between the seats is a rare cruise control option? I always thought it was the heater control?

Posted by: ptravnic Jun 8 2007, 10:19 PM

Yeah, I'd love to know how folks hook that up...

Posted by: Bass Fisher Jun 8 2007, 11:06 PM

Post who the owner that the car was stolen from. Otherwise it is pure speculation.

Like asking if (fill in the blank) is still beating his wife.

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 8 2007, 11:47 PM

Owner is anmason from the old club site. Since this situation is well known to many of us I would not call it "pure speculation".
The entire thread about when he bought it, when he lost it etc. Is on the old Club site. The person he bought if from is Craig Laughlin from Camp914.

Not really sure how the old thing about is so-and-so beating his wife applies here either. You wouldn't happen to be Holley911 from EBay would you?

Posted by: orange914 Jun 8 2007, 11:50 PM

hey hey easy... (from the other mike m(iller) )

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 8 2007, 11:59 PM

Dear Mr. C. Dodger ...

this *is* the old club site. that thread never left the house, it's all *here* ...
Andy

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 9 2007, 01:08 AM

So did you get contact info before spooking the guy? Does Craig know, or the previous owner? We

Posted by: boxstr Jun 9 2007, 10:38 AM

The previous owner still had Oregon plates on the car while in the Bay area. I was the recipeint of the unpaid parking tickets.
I was never out of pocket any cash. The car was stolen, then the whole matter went away until the ebay auction. I notice the auction has ended, as the item is no longer available.
The car was actually very nice. The throttle lever between the seats was from a 914-6. Lots of other nice upgrades by the original owner.
CCLIN914NATION

Posted by: boxstr Jun 9 2007, 10:38 AM

.may

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 9 2007, 11:28 AM

Oh... So I make a little mistake about where content is located and the Andy who doesn't know enough not to wear brown boots with camo after memorial day jumps all over me... I get no respect.

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 9 2007, 11:34 AM

Both Craig and the PO know. Ebay will have the contact information. I doubt the guy will bolt if that is what you mean by spook. He bought the car through a legal process its just that someone failed in due diligence when checking for ownership and status. Sellers only "sin" is jacking up people who point out that it is a stolen car. He told the owner to "try that scam on someone else".

Posted by: SirAndy Jun 9 2007, 11:35 AM

Andy

Posted by: Bass Fisher Jun 9 2007, 05:24 PM

No, I'm not that person. I simply pointed out that your post was incomplete without the name of the former owner. Cool your jets.

Posted by: TROJANMAN Jun 9 2007, 05:47 PM

and he did.............lol
check out the thread on clubbrad

Posted by: kwales Jun 9 2007, 06:40 PM

Ahhhhhh.....

The ever so honorable towing companies.....
The sonsabeeches in Cincinnati were driving around, finding a likely looking car, hooking it and towing it to a "friendly" car scrapyard. They got almost $200 a car for bringing them in. Paperwork? we don't need no stinking paperwork, cash and crush.
Wouldn't put it past a towing company to snag the parked car and then title and sell it......

I'd start there with a really big ugly Attorney and work my way through the chain of buyers and sellers AND my personal insurance company (IF the car was insured).

And in NO WAY would I pay the E-bay guy. To do so is to admit guilt and settlement.

Kensmarterandwisernow

Posted by: ConeDodger Jun 9 2007, 07:01 PM

Cool my jets or? Interesting. 8 posts in 5 years, 25% in the last 24 hours. Did you have something you wanted to contribute or did you just come out of lurk mode to bait me? Good luck with that. ohhhh I am so angry right now I don't know what I will do!!! NOT.

Posted by: JPB Jun 9 2007, 09:49 PM

Your avatar is like subconscious ain't it? Cone dodger? Thinking of marriage and she's got huge tracks of land. It's all masked into the car thing. Your dodging is the true instinct you need to listen to. Don't get married, I hate to see a good man go down.

Posted by: jimtab Jun 9 2007, 10:34 PM

No kidding? My sweetie always says she LOVES to see a good man go down.....

Posted by: JPB Jun 10 2007, 05:49 AM

Wachaaaa

Posted by: porschecb Jun 30 2007, 05:31 PM

Its back up on Ebay! Wonder what happend?

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 30 2007, 05:37 PM

no reserve???

Posted by: majkos Jun 30 2007, 05:45 PM

Posted by: GWN7 Jun 30 2007, 06:10 PM

"This car was listed several weeks ago on ebay but a previous owner stated that this car was stolen from him 18 months ago. In the interest of be ethical, I cancelled the auction until the police investigation had been completed. The investigation is complete enough for the CHP to notify me that the car is legally mine and as such, legally mine to sell. If you would like the name and number of the CHP officer in charge of the case, just email me with your request. If you would like a faxed copy of my clear and valid California title, just email me with your request. Thanks and good luck."

Hmmmm

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 30 2007, 06:11 PM

B-S

Posted by: john grier Jun 30 2007, 06:57 PM

I would not touch that car with a ten foot pole

Posted by: justcant Jun 30 2007, 07:06 PM

what's the ebay # and what's it going for $ ?

Posted by: porschecb Jun 30 2007, 07:19 PM

It is ORANGE. See discripition.

Posted by: Michael N Jun 30 2007, 07:59 PM

[/quote]
what's the ebay # and what's it going for $ ?
[/quote]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914-1973-Porsche-914-Factory-2-0L-No-Reserve_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6430QQihZ007QQitemZ170126901003QQrdZ1

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 30 2007, 08:10 PM

he listed a non-914 VIN on the ebay listing, and you cant confirm it with the VIN on the pic of the title....hmm....--JON

Posted by: dflesburg Jun 30 2007, 08:43 PM

four men, ski masks, unmarked van, bats... check.

duct tape, trash bag, camera for milk carton picture.... check.

freezer, chipper shedder, pond full of ohio river carp... check.

ready to deliver some southwest ohio, northern kentucky justice....

Posted by: BarberDave Jun 30 2007, 08:51 PM

The seller lists the vin on E-Bay as 60406022348, That same # appears

on the very upper left coner of the title. Is that the correct place for the vin?????

Left coasters chime in please.. Dave

Posted by: sixnotfour Jun 30 2007, 09:05 PM

thats the title number, the correct VIN is below it .

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 30 2007, 09:36 PM

Mr. Oruruo King
1025 89th ave
Oakland, CA 94621

Is listed on the title. Hmmmm

This whole thing just makes me sick. What the fuck is the deal? What happened?

Posted by: John Jun 30 2007, 11:27 PM

Why don't we just send a tow truck company to go get it like the last time?

Posted by: smokey Jul 1 2007, 12:02 AM

Ok every one . I am the buyer and seller . my partner and I bought it from a guy in oackland named King . He is the listed Owner . and The CHP telles us we now own it ,(when telling his story to everyone) the Guy who lost the car did not say any thing about that this car has been rereged four times betweenthe time it was so called stollen. I think it was an inside job ,this WORLD travler leaves the car on the street in Oackland and all his FRIENDS know about were this car is.He is gone for months. Look; we did the correct thing buy pulling the car from the Ebay to sell it to this Guy who lost it . . we offer it to him four two thousand.(the amount i have in it ,) we has non contacted us . I guess i thinks the world will just wait for him .. RONG.. Happy bidding all . It is a great car . It s to bad it had to end up on the BAYYYYY. If u dont get pissy with me i will respond to u . Peace Rick

Posted by: smokey Jul 1 2007, 12:14 AM

Oh, and reed the Ebay add.

Posted by: smokey Jul 1 2007, 12:17 AM

Its My snake , " I coaght it , " I kiiled It " " Im gunna eat it " !!!!!!.

Posted by: porschecb Jul 1 2007, 01:05 AM

If a tree fell in the forest and there was no one there to here it, did it make a noise?

Posted by: porschecb Jul 1 2007, 01:08 AM

Oh!! By the why! Its your turn!!

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 1 2007, 11:52 AM

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 1 2007, 12:06 PM

ok, here is something i don't get ...


how can a car be stolen, reported stolen and then show up 12 month later and be legally owned by someone else?


am i the only one who thinks that doesn't make any sense?
Andy

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 1 2007, 12:48 PM

I know a pig farmer...

Perhaps my friend would be willing to host a get-together for the eBay seller and the original thief.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 1 2007, 01:05 PM

I don't think the seller gets it. Why should the true owner of the car be able to buy it back for 2,000 when it is rightfully his. It sucks for the seller that he bought a stollen car, but I say fuch him after reading what he posted. He should make every effort to work this out as IT IS STOLEN.

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 1 2007, 01:14 PM

The sad thing is that the seller's insurance will probably make him whole, if he bought the car in good faith.

Makes you wonder.

Posted by: smokey Jul 1 2007, 02:41 PM

On the contrary , CHP has infomed me that this car was reregestered . Before It was reported stollen . The deadbeat ? owner .was on a World tour , for six months . . . i have a clean cal tital on the car . i bought it legaly , therefore it is NOT stollen ! . BTW thanks for all the threats .with your clamsman mentality. I have been fourthright with this whole fiasco . I have not herd back from this So called owner in over three weeks . The ChP has told me that this car is Leagally Mine . P . S > Every body who is not interested in buying this car , mind ther owwn buisness. Thank You.!!!

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 1 2007, 02:49 PM

Well, preventing crime is public business. It's security for our society, Mister Smokey.

I'm sure the Chippies told you exactly what you wanted to hear... based on the story you told them.

If someone sold me a television, but it had been stolen and resold... it's not mine. There's no difference here... except for the difference between our moral outlooks.

I'm sure the rightful (what you called "So called owner") is investigating his legal options and talking to his insurance company.

You must have one bullet-proof conscience to be able to sleep at night. You have a stolen car. Do the right thing... turn it over to the rightful owner and pursue reimbursement from your insurance company or the guy you got this stolen car from.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 1 2007, 02:59 PM

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 1 2007, 03:03 PM

how did i miss that one?
Andy

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 1 2007, 03:05 PM

I concur. We are not hearing a key part of the story (from one side or the other). If the car was actually reported stolen and never recovered, there is no way a title would be re-issued and no way the current owner(s) would remain in possession.

A possible scenario: Insurance company paid off and the car was subsequently recovered (by the towing company?) where it would be reported "recovered". Insurance company doesn't want it back, gives title (or similar document) to towing company. Towing company holds a lien sale and presto..."clean title".

Another scenario: No insurance involved. Car is stolen and, upon recovery, notice is sent to address of last registered owner. Notice never reaches last registered owner (e.g. he moved). Towing company performs lien sale (which also requires noticing previous owner). No response from owner, lien sale creates "clean" title.

I believe if the registered owner at the time of theft made a big enough stink (assuming he wasn't paid by the insurance carrier), he could get the car back. Unfortunately, it sounds like that individual is incommunicado...

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 1 2007, 03:10 PM

Didn't you know? These things are known all over the sea for a bad mentality.

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 1 2007, 03:10 PM

Posted by: sixnotfour Jul 1 2007, 03:10 PM

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 1 2007, 03:13 PM

No. They already went over that. It may have been on the other site though. I believe that it was a miscomunication between local law enforcement.

And to the seller, we are all just hoping that our fellow member gets taken care of. despite the fact he has been traveling, it is not his fault it was stolen. He did what he could while being gone. Why do you need to sell it so quickly that you cannot wait for another month or two? Are you trying to get rid of it before it bites you?

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 1 2007, 03:17 PM

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 1 2007, 03:23 PM

Smokey -
If you really think that you own this car, then post the contact information of the CHP officer that you are dealing with and his contact information, along with the current DMV report # publicly on this board. The original seller of this car has an impecable long term reputation on this board. The buyer has already stated that there was no insurance to cover his claim.(A long time ago) If he was going to set up a theft of his own vehicle (which you accused him of), he would have also gone to the trouble of having insurance to cover a theft. Also, your claim to currently own the car may be completely invalid, no matter what DMV employee told you, and this is evidenced by other examples of claims posted regarding ownership of specific and infamous vehicles that have been part of the history of this board.

Again, if you really own this car - then post all the information -
If you choose not to post the information, you will be considered a thief by most, and will be treated as such, whether it be the truth or not -

The long term and known users of this board look out for one another - If you thought this was a place where everyone will look the other way, you have made a mistake -

So what is it Smokey, owner or thief ?

Posted by: majkos Jul 1 2007, 03:28 PM

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 1 2007, 04:26 PM

Here is what sticks out to me:

1. The title is still in the guys name that Smokey bought it from = curbing/not actually owned by Smokey.

2. According to Smokey, the last guy, King, registered and titled it before it was reported stolen. this seems to give him the idea that this makes it legit. HUGE BS! The ORIGINAL owner (the one it was stolen from) was out of the country (a fact known to Smokey) and thus would have been away for some time before relizing his car was stolen. In this time away the thief/company/who ever could have worked some gymnbastics to re-title it before the actual owner got back from abroad.

It sounds cut and dry that this car was, at the very least, administratively stolen. That point is transparent and Smokey admits to knowing it in his post....and yet he is OK with continuing the sale.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 1 2007, 04:30 PM

Morals and ethics sometimes slip when it comes to doing the RIGHT thing. I hope the right thing is finally done here.

Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 1 2007, 05:02 PM

Ok, so if I follow your logic (which is difficult since I can hardly follow your spelling) then the following scenario should work for me given the if A then B logic model:

My neighbor owns a beautiful '59 Chev' pickup. He is in Iraq. If someone unknown to me rolls the car over on to my property and I notify DMV that I found a '59 Chev' pickup abandoned on the property that I own. I then apply for a title. DMV follows their process and checks the data base only to find the vehicle is no longer on the data base because my neighbor has not registered the vehicle in years, it is also not stolen since my neighbor is in Iraq and wouldn't know the car was gone. DMV issues the title. I own it. CHP will even say I own it. The moral problem is that I know it isn't mine, my neighbor knows it isn't mine. So even if some idiot at DMV says I own it, it doesn't make it right.

The problem that people are trying to help you see is that while you may have a valid claim since you specifically didn't steal it you also aren't standing on moral high ground since you know it was stolen and that a screw up on the part of our amazing DMV which is known for such things allowed you to have a valid claim.

On another site the owner (you know, the one who does have the moral high ground) has said that you came to a deal to sell it to him for what you have in it. I believe that figure was around $2000. A figure I am guessing to be bogus as well since your other moral lapses make you somewhat transparent. Have you contacted him to see why he hasn't gotten back to you? Bottom line is he offered to make you whole which he shouldn't have to do considering he owns it.

To paraphrase your own words when I pointed out to you that the car was stolen, we no longer need you here to explain. Do everyone a favor. Back away from the computer, knock it off the desk, go back to communicating in grunts. You are a bit behind the evolutionary curve.

Posted by: smokey Jul 1 2007, 05:39 PM

Moral's? What are you people smoking! Have you ever questioned yourselves?

CHP has said the car should never have been reported stolen because it was re-registered to someone else. Ask this Fourm buddy of yours to come clean. The person who states he owns the car cannot produce the paper work. There is so many holes in his story. So you freaks tell me?

P.S. Why am I being judged, juryied and excuted by this 914 thing?

Posted by: porschecb Jul 1 2007, 05:47 PM

I just got a PM from him on the 914CLUB! He is around! He also has a story as of late! You two should be talking soon! BTW whats up with our so called partner?

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 1 2007, 05:57 PM

u should yourself....who you callin freaks??? BTW, -JON

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 1 2007, 05:59 PM

Up to this point, we've generally been talking about ideas. There's no need for name calling or attacks... it's not called for.

Smokey, Jonathan... please stop.

Posted by: porschecb Jul 1 2007, 06:02 PM

Check out the reply on the 914CLUB. Thie is new!

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 1 2007, 06:45 PM

Sounds like once the CHP told him he was clear to sel it he decided to renig on making a deal with Aaron. Classy

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 1 2007, 06:57 PM

Eye all-wize nu their wer clamsmen hear!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: scotty b Jul 1 2007, 07:11 PM

So the spelling wizard cut this place some slack for a while but he is REALLY PISSED OFF now !!


My
OAKLAND
guy
reregisterd OR re-registerd
stolen
traveler
once again OAKLAND
I
Wrong
is
you

Posted by: scotty b Jul 1 2007, 07:12 PM

READ !!

Posted by: scotty b Jul 1 2007, 07:13 PM

caught
killed
gonna

Posted by: scotty b Jul 1 2007, 07:17 PM

informed
reregIsterd
STOLEN
title
STOLEN STOLEN STOLEN
KLANSMEN
forthright
heard
legaly
everybody (it is ONE word not two !)
own
business

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 1 2007, 07:18 PM

,,,and all this talk about stollen is making me hungry.

Posted by: scotty b Jul 1 2007, 07:19 PM

Who the hell wrote this one for you?? Only issue I have is whether or not " juryied...juried.... is a real word.

Posted by: scottb Jul 1 2007, 08:39 PM

juried: To judge or evaluate by a jury

i am glad i was able to help out.

smokey can't spell, but he does lack integrity.

Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 1 2007, 10:25 PM

Gee Smokey,
Why didn't you respond to my post? Too many words?

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 1 2007, 11:01 PM

Get in line -
I want an answer to my post first -

Posted by: ammason Jul 1 2007, 11:06 PM

Hey all - this is Aaron, the guy that the car was taken from... Wow I didn't even realize this discussion was going on and was just checking the 914club forum. Why didn't you 914club guys tell me ? Are the two the same?

So for those of you that haven't heard the other side of the story (mine) about what happened, here's the timeline:

• June 2005: I left Oakland and took my http://a73.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00167/27/01/167591072_l.jpg across the country and left the car with a friend of mine in Oakland. I spent 5 months travelling (http://a668.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/00962/76/64/962894667_l.jpg, Egypt, Miami and NY) and it was awesome.
  
• October 2005: The car was stolen and registered to a new owner. I was in Costa Rica (and have the passport stamps to prove it).
  
• December 2005: I got back from Egypt and went to go pick up the car, only to have my friend tell me it'd been towed. After spending a couple of days looking through local tow yards, I filed a stolen vehicle report with the Oakland PD, which they took without checking to see if it had been re-registered. I had the registration slip in my hand, so they took the report without checking with the DMV. I left my contact info as well as info for a local contact, and moved to Hawaii.
  
• January/February 2006: The car was impounded because it was pulled over with a driver without a license. CHP found that there was a stolen vehicle report and aparently (unconfirmed) attempted to contact the previous registered owner. They said they didn't try to contact the Oakland PD or the person who filed the police report. According to the Oakland PD they never heard from the CHP. CHP reported the vehicle recovered (not returned though) while the Oakland PD still had an open stolen vehicle report. They still do.
  
• February 2006: The car was issued a new title by Pat's Lein Service in the East Bay and sold by a tow truck company, still with no contact made to the Oakland PD to see who the car was stolen from.
  
• 2006-2007: Every week I checked eBay and craigslist looking to see if the car would come up for sale. Maybe that's a bit stalkerish, but it worked. The car has been sold several times, and is now for sale on eBay.
  
• June 2007: I found the car and my first call was to the Oakland PD, who said something along the lines of "You found your car? We've still got the report open, we'll go get it and take the current owner in for questioning." They told me to call the ATTF as well, and now as far as I know the CHP officer working on the case, Andy Cosgrove, is retrieving documents from the DMV, CHP, Pat's Lein Service, and the towing company responsible for selling the car. My last two phone calls to him have gone unanswered. Tomorrow I'll open a case with the FBI since CHP seems to be dragging it's feet and internet sales are federal jurisdiction.

When this first started the seller told me he had $2000 invested in the car. I didn't want to see him pay for someone else's crime, and at the same time didn't want him to profit on it either, so I offered to pay him what he had into it and let that be that. Since then (today, actually) he's told me that he bought it to sell for profit, that's what he's going to do, and if I want to bid on eBay that was fine with him. Honestly, there's not that much, save for hiring a lawyer and filing an injunction, that I can do, except keep calling law enforcement at every level and sticking with it for a year or so.

He's got a CHP officer friend who has told him the car is his, end of story. Maybe he's right, maybe he's just telling his friend what he wants to hear; I'm not in the speculation business. I do plan on stepping it up a bit though: perhaps speaking with the FBI, a couple of journalist friends in magazines and local papers, as well as a radio DJ in the BA will scare the CHP/ATTF into taking this a little more seriously.

What I really hope doesn't happen is that whoever buys the car does so without knowing the situation right now, and that Ted takes their check to the bank before the car is returned to me. Perhaps he'll get stuck with a "knowingly selling stolen property" charge pressed by whoever buys the car, I don't know, and after the way he's treated me, it's not really a concern of mine. I'd just like to get my car back. It's regrettable that he's choosing to bring yet another person into the mix by selling it before the dust settles, but again, that's his choice.

I do want to say thanks to everyone for the interest in the car and this whole story - you guys have been great and the support from both forums has been incredibly helpful in keeping my spirits up through this mess. I've got a long road ahead, but if I can spend a year and a half not knowing if the car was still in one piece, I can spend another year now that I have names/dates/events. I'll get it back - of that I'm quite confident - but it will take time.

I live rent-free in Hawaii - life is good - and I have the time.

As I've posted on the other board, if any of you guys have any advice, post it here or contact me any time:

Aaron Mason
aaron@aaronmason.com
808-723-5535

1936 S. King St. #203
Honolulu, HI 96826

Thanks again for everything. Aloha!

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 12:25 AM

We all hope everything goes your way Aaron. I know if I was in your situation it would be a hard thing to go through. I am happy to hear you are sticking with it until it is returned to you. Let us know how everything goes.

Posted by: msglaigaie Jul 2 2007, 12:39 AM

So smokey, you are saying the Owner of the 914 had the vehicle unregisterd and was outside the USA. During these conditions someone absconded with his vehicle and registered it, shortly thereafter this villian sold the vehicle to you for US$2000.00 My 914 is currenttly in my garage after receiving a new powerplant and is about to get a floor repair. I travel overseas on a regular basis. I think the Owner of the 914, not you my friend but the Owner should be delivered to your house to pick up the keys.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:07 AM

Now the seller is offering to sell the car back to me for $1000 more saying:

"This way, I make a little, you make a little and you get your car back."

Sheesh.

Posted by: tdgray Jul 2 2007, 08:45 AM

WOW... go away for a few days and I miss the

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 2 2007, 08:51 AM

Posted by: SFOB914 Jul 2 2007, 09:40 AM

Found this on Craiglist, "King" "Oakland" "Orange 914", maybe found the thief, or at least the guy who started this mess.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/car/364829751.html

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 2 2007, 09:45 AM

Craigs list listing has been flagged for removal...Hmmm

Posted by: SFOB914 Jul 2 2007, 09:51 AM

Maybe this guy's trying to cover his , but I just used the link I provided and it's already been removed, 2 mins. while I was posting this.
Basically, had "another" 914 2.0 he was selling, as clean as the "last orange" one he sold a few mos. ago. His name was King, from East Oakland. Sounded like crackhead, needing some new "gold teef" and other stuff.
Only half read the post quickly before I tried to post it here, (2 mins) used the link to make sure it work, and it was removed.
Or I just thought, was this a joke from someone here? Sorry if it was. There might be some old posts still on Craigslist, as I remember the original ad never had contact info on it.
Bob

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 2 2007, 09:51 AM

gee...one would think the current owner is in possession of a stolen vehicle. the towing and multitude of owners screwed the dog on this one. not YOUR problem!!! you mght counter offer that you won't press the issue if he returns YOUR property. during negos you might mention the #14 saga and ask him if it's worth jail, the related financial nightmare, and a felony conviction.

k

Posted by: SFOB914 Jul 2 2007, 09:56 AM

This guy's been responding to the ad and may have bought it, or knows "king" .

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/car/364723248.html

Looks like "King" went and deleted all of his ads, but couldn't deleted this guys (above) request for contact info.

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 2 2007, 10:01 AM

Maybe another stolen 914?

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 11:33 AM

So "Smokey" wants you to pay 3000 for your car? Hmmmm, I say go through everything you are and get it through the proper authorities. He has lost his chance.

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jul 2 2007, 01:18 PM

is this "King" Boy??
los angeles craigslist > central LA > cars & trucks > VW-Porsche 914/4 Cyl. Targa 1.8 Ltr. Boxer air cooled Middle Engine
VW-Porsche 914/4 Cyl. Targa 1.8 Ltr. Boxer air cooled Middle Engine - $2300

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reply to: sale-362048140@craigslist.org
Date: 2007-06-28, 12:49AM PDT


thank you for your interest, even offering more - who shows up first and pay's cash will take her home: no smog test needed, 205R15 Tires on Rivera Wheels. Go-Cart, pure race car handling, direct steering and road contact. You feel the engine through your spinal cord, as it is right behind your seat, running strong. This car will connect you with framing, wheels, the road, you will experience how it is to drive, not to be driven. Laying on the streets like on railroad tracks. If you are into 5 gear stick shifting it's one of the last real driving experiences you can live for very small money! "King of the Mountains", is this Middle Engine Racer called after it successes. It needs a new clutch now, original color is orange, faded, very little dents, scratches, superficial rust outside and where the battery is, very good body to repaint, driver seat worn out where you slip in on the left side, original interior has little cracks, rips, tears here and there, I am second owner since 1995, technical it was always taken care of this Canyon Glider, it is not a clean show car right now, been out in the streets, driven Targa by day and night, dashing down the curvy Freeways, you can have a lot of fun with her, yes: please call me only if you really want to buy & pay cash: 323 469 3452 No other calls, please respect my privacy, thank you very much -

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 01:37 PM

I am not hiding anything. Feel free to contact any law enforcement agency. I bought (not stole) this car with a California Title from a guy who bought it from someone else who bought it from a tow yard. Hawaian Tropic has not produced a single bit of paper work. Nor, with all of his Rent Free time, has he considered to come to California get his documents? out of some box at his grandparents house and provide any proof of anything!? So while he is rent free, I pay my rent. I have to!
So all you all keep blowing your so called Porsches. I will be happy to stuff any of you in a Thing.

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 2 2007, 01:39 PM

According to the address listed on the title, King lives in Oakland, CA

Posted by: Travis Neff Jul 2 2007, 01:41 PM

Attached image(s)

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 2 2007, 01:46 PM

Posted by: tdgray Jul 2 2007, 01:49 PM

That's a double

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 2 2007, 02:29 PM

post the vin # stamped in the front and rear trunks. that should clear everything up.

k

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 2 2007, 02:44 PM

Not hidding anything ????

You have yet to post your name on anything you have written -
As all can clearly see my name is at the bottom of each post I write -

You have been asked to provide documentation and contact information for ALL to see - you have failed to do it -
You are the only person on this board that is attempting to sell what appears to be stolen property -

How Aaron currently lives is irrelevant of whether you are in possession of his property -
Whether you bought this car or not is also irrelevant to whether it is stolen property -
Why should I or anyone else on this board come to your defense when all you can provide is hearsay ?

As a result, unless you start acting like a responsible adult, you will be treated like a criminal -

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 02:47 PM

Do you wear knee pads? from Dick!

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 2 2007, 02:52 PM

You are about to enter the hailstorm, asswipe -

Posted by: tdgray Jul 2 2007, 02:59 PM

Just ban the jerkoff and be done with it... Nothing getting acomplished here.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 2 2007, 03:12 PM

Hey! It appears someone discovered "spell check" & "grammar check"! Now if they only made an "ethics/morals check"...

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jul 2 2007, 03:22 PM

Perhaps someone can put a name to the face...

Posted by: cuca914 Jul 2 2007, 03:46 PM

So who's the guy in the photo? Is that supposed to be 'Smokey'?

Posted by: brer Jul 2 2007, 04:10 PM

anyone want to bet that smokey is his dogs name?

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 2 2007, 04:20 PM

Smokey and a bandit... how appropriate...

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 04:23 PM

When was that craigslist ad from? The second owner of the car after it was stolen was a guy named "King Oruruo" in Oakland.

Here's the info I've got... If any of this pops out at any of you guys let me know...

The chronological list of past owners is:

1. Salayfo Smith, 35th st. Oakland
2. King Oruruo, Oakland
3. Mike Bench, Saratoga
4. Ed Holley, Campbell (current owner)

The car was towed by:

R. Lance & Sons; 6776 Patterson Pass Rd, Livermore, CA 94550, (925) 245-8884

And the lein sale was handled by

Pat's Lein Service; 1542 Holmes St Ste D, Livermore, CA 94550-6008, (925) 455-0932

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 04:26 PM

Sounds like a good compromise to me. He should make some money on the car. He bought it legally with valid california title. Why not step up and make the transaction?

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 2 2007, 04:30 PM

Sounds like a piss-poor compromise to me.

A man's property was stolen... that property has resurfaced. Since he wasn't compensated by insurance, he deserves to have it returned.

Let "Smokey" take it up with the guy HE bought the car from, rather than trying to make a buck on a fellow man's misfortune.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 04:34 PM

Also, again thank you guys for the support, but to be honest flaming the guy isn't going to accomplish anything except maybe get him pissed off, and I'd rather deal with someone who feels like they're being treated fairly. I don't think he's going to change, and that's fine, but I'd rather make sure everything that happens happens with everyone's well-being in mind.

He's asked why I don't go to CA, and it's because at this point it wouldn't add anything to the situation, and I'd rather not spend $600 on plane fare. I do have time, but $600 is still a substantial chunck of change. When this goes to court I'll be there in a suit, but until then I'm content to have the law run it's course.

What I'm hoping will happen is that after this goes to trial I'll get my car back and he'll be left having to squeeze his $2k out of the tow truck company, or Oakland PD, or whoever made the mistake. He could've gotten it out of me - I'd offered straight up - but after this run-around I'm really just over it.

Thanks again for the support,

Aaron

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 04:35 PM

Sounds like a "man" abandoned his vehicle. Car left illegally on California streets with Oregon plates and not properly registered. It may have or may have not been stolen. Just because car was reported as stolen doesnt mean it was.

Smokey bought the car with Valid California title. He isnt obligated to do anything legally or morally.

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 2 2007, 04:40 PM

hail to the wonders of the internet ...

here's your man:
http://www.kingknows.com/contact.html

Andy

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jul 2 2007, 04:41 PM

Ad was posted in Los Angeles. Found on Craigs today. Similar ad also in Austin

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 2 2007, 04:42 PM

Grant -
I have to respectfully disagree -
Aaron would at that point be out $7500 for a car he paid about $4500, IIRC -
Remember, the car still should be his no matter what errors the DMV made -
Smokey the bandit should go back to the seller he bought the car from, and recover his losses. Each buyer/seller would have to do the same, all the way back to the tow company -
After the attitude he has shown on this board, he should have to go to the trouble if he wanted to break even -

Also, Pat's lien service I would suspect be required by the state to be bonded/insured - There is also the option to go after them -

Again, just because Smokey has a title does not mean that he owns the car -
The current title is not in his name -

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 2 2007, 04:43 PM

and you would know that for certain how exactly?


lay down the crack pipe and slowly step away from that crystal ball ...
Andy

Posted by: Brian Mifsud Jul 2 2007, 04:45 PM

Shouldn't we "armchair" detective be tracking down Salayfo Smith as the first "buyer" after it was stolen?

(google shows nothing).

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 2 2007, 04:48 PM

yes, but "King Oruruo" may remember who he bought the car from ...

2nd in line could be good enough.
Andy

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 04:49 PM

I don't agree that he should make any money. If that's your opinion than we disagree and that's OK.

My sense of ethics says that if you find something that doesn't belong to you, you give it back. If he found my car, then the ethical thing would be to give it back in exchange for any money he'd put into it. That's what I'd offered. Anything other than that just seems exploitive.

Aaron

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 2 2007, 04:51 PM

google doesn't, but peoplefinder does!

SMITH, SALAYFO S, OAKLAND, CA, AGE 60
http://www.peoplefinders.com/Summary.asp?ln=smith&fn=SALAYFO&mn=&city=&state=&dobmm=&dobdd=&doby=&age=&vw=people&input=&x=31&y=12

Andy

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 04:53 PM

Finally! Thanks Man!

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 04:55 PM

As of a week ago I'm also in the process of tracking down Salayfo Smith. I've tried calling all the numbers and have asked friends in Oakland to go knock on the doors. It's definitely the guy as the 35th st. address is the one that the car was registered to.

$9.95 on peoplefinder.com gets this:

Past addresses:

925 90th Ave , OAKLAND, CA 94603
8731 Mountain Blvd , OAKLAND, CA 94605
8761 Mountain Blvd , OAKLAND, CA 94605
709 35th St , OAKLAND, CA 94609 (this is the one it was registered to)
1923 90th Ave , OAKLAND, CA 94603
6717 Mokelumne Ave , OAKLAND, CA 94605

DOB: 09/01/1946

Past phone numbers:

(510) 430-3037
(510) 553-0337
652-3397
(510) 654-3602

None of this, however, has any bearing on my dealings with the current owner.

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 04:56 PM

I'm pretty sure if you read all past posts it is stated by the "A" man himself. Both sides of this story are so full of holes that I would go with legal ownership if I were a judge.

..and you know we dont use crack in Santa Cruz mountains. I have stepped away from my fortune telling cards.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 05:01 PM

Also, I've made it clear that I didn't leave it on the street: I left it in the care of a friend who parked it on the street across from his house. It had Oregon plates on it because I bought it from CAMP914 in Portland, Oregon. I registered it in CA as soon as I brought it down, but I liked the way the Oregon plates looked (and they kept me from getting at least one speeding ticket from a CHP who didn't want to deal with out-of-state paperwork) and since they were still valid I left them on.

I did the same thing with my Caddy - the license plate said "VEY ZMER" and hadn't been registered since 1987, but all the paperwork on that car was up to date and it wasn't until I got to Louisianna, after being pulled over a few times, that a cop asked me to change the plates.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 05:05 PM

If there are any holes in the story you need patched up, just ask. I think the series of events is pretty cut and dry, but there's ambiguity as to who's currently responsible.

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 05:05 PM

Gee why were you NOT in the process to get all your documents together to proof and get over to Cali to resolve Your problem!
Surf to good on the Islands?
I mean really man! Come clean with what the cops told you!

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 2 2007, 05:09 PM

While the spell checking is marginally better and punctuation still non-existant... did he actually say "Cali"?

Retro might be back... but there are still limits!

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 05:10 PM

So you are admitting that the Cops or Tow Company, Lien Company did not notifiy you that the car was being liened because the Oregon plate was a different person. Therefore they sent a lien letter out to that person, not you. And this is because you liked the way the plate LOOKED?
Are you kidding me?

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 05:13 PM

If you want to prove your case on 914world Court then scan that California Registration for all to see.

Leaving Oregon plates on the car is an illegal activity which makes you suspect. I moved from Oregon to California and changed my plates according to California DMV code.

Still sounds like you abandoned the car and it was likely towed once before and sold off when you were out of the country. Maybe tow company didnt do proper paperwork or do it legally, but that sounds likely.

Judge K

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 2 2007, 05:14 PM

Sounds remarkably similar to comments we made about a certain prototype, Grant.

Some of us have learned... some... not so much.

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 05:22 PM

Your the one is Alabama! Got to love A/C for 4 straight months!

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 05:22 PM

When I registered the stolen vehicle report I gave them the Oregon plates, the CA plates, and the CA registration information. Obviously this was enough because they registered the car as a stolen vehicle and it was picked up by the CHP as such.

The problem is that when the CHP picked it up, they didn't go to the SV report, they looked to the current DMV registrant, which wouldn't have been me under any circumstance since it had been re-registered twice.

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 05:22 PM

Yep Original "owners" have some similarities. LOL!

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 05:28 PM

But when CHP picked up the car, it had not been reported stolen yet. They imponded the car because the driver had a suspended licence. Correct?
And this is how it came to a tow yard, with Oregon plates! ANd your so called friend was helping you store this beauty! How is he or she not involved with this Oregon plated machine?

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 05:36 PM

If a freind trusted their car with me and then car went missing I would report it stolen immediately. Wonder why it wasnt reported stolen by the "Freind".

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 06:27 PM

CHP pulled the car over 2 months after I'd filed the report, and impounded it because there was a Department of Justice stolen vehicle hold on the car. That's when CHP filed the vehicle as "recovered".

I don't know if it still had my plates on it or if it had been issued new plates at the DMV, but that's irrelevant as the DOJ uses the VIN to track stolen cars.

To put an end to any doubt of my claim, http://www.aaronmason.com/transfer/914/reg.jpg, 6 days after I bought it from CAMP.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 06:37 PM

As for my friend, he might be involved, as might Salayfo Smith and King and Pat's Lein Service, all the way up to the current owner... All of these people might have something to do with it, and I'm working with law enforcement to follow up on each one of those leads outside of this forum.

This is an open book as far as I'm concerned, and all I'm interested in is getting my car back.

Thank you all again for the support. If anyone has any additional advice please let me know... I'll keep you all updated if anything positive happens, and if you have any questions don't hesitate to post or contact me.

Aaron

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:02 PM

I don't know how necessary these are, but here are scans http://www.aaronmason.com/transfer/914/passport1.jpg http://www.aaronmason.com/transfer/914/passport2.jpg http://www.aaronmason.com/transfer/914/passport3.jpg of my passport with stamps showing the following:

9/6/05: Left Honduras
9/24/05: Entered Colombia
10/3/05: Left Colombia
10/5/05: Entered Panama
10/19/05: Entered Costa Rica
11/2/05: Entered USA

Any gaps are because I was sailing and it can take a few weeks to get from country to country, especially when you shred sails in a gale like we did trying to leave Honduras. If necessary I'm sure I can dig up zarpes (sailing vessel documents) by calling the various ports.

The car was registered on 10/28/05, while I was hiking up volcanoes in the jungle.

I hope this puts to rest any idea that the car was not mine or I had anything to do with some kind of scam. No insurance money was ever claimed, no one benefited here aside from the people who stole the car.

The situation sucks, and if anyone has anything additional to add to it then great, but I'm going to try to keep the issue off the board unless something productive is brought up. The seller feels entitled to profits, I disagree, and a 3rd party is going to have to make that decision.

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 07:14 PM

So they never arrested the driver of a "stolen" vehicle? I would think they would have.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 07:21 PM

I think everything sounds like you are very truthful in what you are saying.I feel bad for Smokey, but he needs to see that the facts lead up to the car still being yours rightfully. I really hope this gets worked out for you Aaron.

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:24 PM

I'm not sure what they did... I've called the CHP myself to ask about the circumstances and they've said I need to go through the ATTF. Andy Cosgrove, the ATTF CHP officer working on the case, has requests in for all the documents pertaining to the original registration of the car to Salayfo Smith, the recovery and impounding of the car, and the subsequent lein sale.

I don't know if they arrested the guy, and I'm waiting on documents that were requested weeks ago to tell me that.

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 07:30 PM

You don't know if they arrested the guy?
So the car was reregisterd 4 days before you reenterd the US. You file a stolen car report with the police. How come they did not go after the guy who registered the car on 10/28/05? Or find his name, address etc. Couldn't you have followed that to recovery?

Please tell what Andy Cosgrove told you?

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:33 PM

Thanks. I don't see the point in this clogging up the board anymore though... The problem is that everything here is subjective and speculative, and doesn't really solve anything. Outside of the board though, these things never tend to just go away ...

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:41 PM

When I entered the country it was in Miami and I wasn't back in CA until almost 2 months later after spending time in FL, NY, and Egypt; I didn't end up back in CA until towards the end of the month, and filed the report on December 26th, the Monday after Christmas.

They should've gone after the guy then and there. That's where the biggest mistake was made - Oakland PD never checked the VIN or the plates against the DMV database - if they had I would've marched over with the fuzz in tow and picked up the car then and there. They're supposed to take stolen vehicle reports only from the registered owner, but in my case they saw I had a copy of the registration in hand and took that instead of actually checking.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 07:43 PM

Smokey

Sorry, I don't know your real name or I would address you by that. You have to realize that no matter what an officer told you it does not mean jack. They are hired to enforce the law as they understand it. However, the lawyers and judges are the ones that are to interperate the law. Officers can have opinions just like you and I as to who should get what, but it is up to the lawyers and judges to decide what is legally true. This whole issue is a very hard one to figure, but I would be willing to bet that, given all information, a judge would look at this and say that Aaron is the true owner. Just my opinion though. I don't believe anyone here blames you for the misfortune that has occured to Aaron, but we do ask that you work WITH him as to get this all figured out.

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 2 2007, 07:43 PM

Ed Holley (Aka Smokey)
No matter what excuses or reasoning you wish to use, there is still a lack of due process. That lack of due process constitutes theft - Your actions and unwillingness to provide any "documentation" that you have with the DMV, continues the lack of due process - and that it still appears that you are in possesion of a stolen vehicle, with a title that is not in your name, that you are attempting to sell -

As some others have stated here this sounds very similar to another situation we saw unfold on this board a few years ago - Whether you are right or wrong will not be determined by me, but the sale and theft of this car were well documented prior to your apparent possession and attempt to sell the vehicle -

Aaron has provided significant documentation to support his story -
You have provided none -

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 07:57 PM

Andy has told me there were mistakes made and he's trying to get documents that show where and when. It's his opinion that since the car has been through a lot of different owners and that I probably won't be able to get it back.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/17/nyregion/17corvette.html?ex=1295154000&en=6575b54cc3926055&ei=5088 had a lot of owners in between when it was reported stolen and when it was recovered and delivered to the original owner as well, 37 years later.

The thing is, I'm not really interested in opinions. Andy can speculate, but what I'm asking him to do is his job. If I end up with a decision from a judge, then that's great. Until then, I'll do whatever the process needs me to.

Posted by: smokey Jul 2 2007, 09:12 PM

So I think your in denial. The car was towed (NOT STOLEN) from the streets of Oakland with the non conforming plates (Illegal) which you thought "looked good". While you were in Mongolia or France or Chile or whereever you were, you lacked the sense of placing your car in a secure place. If you had put the correct plates on it or took it off the street than your problem might not have existed in the first place. But you did not. You expected the Tax payers of Oakland to store your car on public streets with an out of state plate that was registered to someone else. No one should suffer the foolishness of others. Do you honestly believe a judge would concur with you?

Posted by: GWN7 Jul 2 2007, 09:15 PM

I've read this thread from the begining and the facts are simple. The owner of this car never gave up ownership of the car. It was reported stolen when he knew it was stolen. He never signed off of the ownership by either transfering ownership to a insurance company visa settlement or by abandonment. The fact that it was re-titled several times after it was stolen has no bearing on who's name is on a title to it now. It is the property of the original owner until such time as he surenders ownership.

I just hope "Smokey" has the opinion from the CHP officer in writing. If I remember from the last stolen 914 thread, possesion of a stolen 914 is good for 6 months in jail with bail set at $1,000,000

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 2 2007, 09:21 PM

Posted by: ammason Jul 2 2007, 09:25 PM

Smokey - the car was not towed. We've been over this.

My first assumption was that it had been towed, but that was ruled out after checking Oakland PD tow records, making phone calls to local tow yards, and actually visiting the Oakland tow yards and asking questions. I spent several days doing this and only after doing that did I file a stolen vehicle report.

The car was stolen from me: this is not up for debate. Perhaps it was stolen and sold by my friend, perhaps it was stolen my some 3rd party, perhaps Salayfo Smith himself stole it and then had the nerve to go and register it himself thinking he could sell it really quick. I don't know. What I do know is that it was stolen, and who it was stolen by doesn't really have any bearing on our current interaction.

Posted by: hwgunner Jul 2 2007, 09:48 PM

ammason you have pm.

Posted by: cuca914 Jul 2 2007, 09:56 PM

Judging by your illogical thinking, it looks like you believe that Aaron 'deserved' to have the car stolen/towed/whatever, which is irrelevant. Unless you can prove that Aaron was involved in the disappearance and somehow profitted from it, it really doesn't matter does it? I think you're pissed because you bought a stolen car, either knowingly or unknowingly, and the people here on this board called you on it. Will Aaron get his car back? I don't really think you'll have any bearing on that unless you do the right thing and hand it over. Like he said, the authorities will ulimately decide. Just don't piss and moan if the dime comes down on you a little for being involved.

Posted by: Lou W Jul 2 2007, 10:45 PM

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 2 2007, 11:05 PM

I'd love to see you guys go to mediation on this one. I dont think Aarons case is very solid. Clearly both sides of this dispute smell fishy to me. I think any mediator worth their salt would find some contributory negligence from the original owner in this case.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 11:24 PM

I don't know about that. If I were the mediator I think I would have to side with Aaron. Yes, the person he left his car with wasn't responsibe enough to keep a watchful eye on the car, but is that really Aaron's fault the he put his trust into a guy that didn't care? I don't think so. Where was Aaron's negligence? The fact he was traveling is not a reason to say he was negligent at all. He set up provisions for his possesions, but they unfortunately were with someone who didn't pay any attention. Is that his fault?

Posted by: robby750 Jul 2 2007, 11:28 PM

How on earth are you negligent if someone steals your car? Would you feel the same way if it were YOUR car?

Posted by: jwhcars Jul 2 2007, 11:31 PM

If my car was stolen and I knew who had it and where it was located I would show up with all my documents and go to the police and have the car impounded.
In this modern age there is no need to wait weeks for paper work etc.If someone wants a notorized copy rather than a faxed or emailed copy you send it next day air delivery.
I would suspect you could get someone to handle the reporting and paper work for less than the $600.00 flight .(There are a lot of people on this site in Ca)
Good luck in your recovery........Just my 2 cents

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 2 2007, 11:34 PM

That may not be too wise as there are many complications that need to be worked out in this situation. I think Aaron is searching out his options very well at the moment.

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 3 2007, 01:17 AM

Are you 100% sure somone stole the car originally? Its never been clear to me it was actually stolen. Reporting a car stolen and it actually being stolen are two different circumstances.

Negligence portion would be leaving car on Oakland public streets with Oregon plates with no clear custody of the vehicle while planning to be out of the country for months. I'd love to hear the "freinds" side of the story.

I suspect a lot is being left out of these posts on both sides. Smokey needed some people to take his side so I'm arguing his point here.

I'd love to see any competent judge's face when presented with what we have seen here. I suspect both parties would get that irritated look over the top of his or her glasses. I have been through enough mediation sessions to know niether party has presented a rock solid case.

....OK just so I piss off everyone. Who in the hell is this Smokey guy anyway? Does he even have current title? Who is his mysterious partner?

Posted by: smokey Jul 3 2007, 01:23 AM

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 3 2007, 01:26 AM

kaiser sousee.

k

Posted by: smokey Jul 3 2007, 01:27 AM

thank u grant. The mystery man dose not want to be slammed . on a site he likes. He is a teener..

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 3 2007, 01:28 AM

Hey Grant

He has already stated a few times that it was not left on the street. I must agree that it would be interesting to hear the friends story as he was the one around when it was stolen.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 3 2007, 01:32 AM

Nor should you be slammed. Like I have said before, you are both in a chitty situation. You didn't do anything knowing that the car had any cloud on it. Too bad you can't buy title insurance when you buy a car like when purchasing a home or real property.

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 3 2007, 01:50 AM

He already said it was parked on the street - his "custodian" for the car left it on the street. Its unclear that it was ever not on the street. Was he paying his freind rent for a space to store the car off public streets? Any reciepts?

The whole story just breaks down. It did before in original posts and still does now.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jul 3 2007, 01:59 AM

I don't know about you, but I have many friends that if I were going away for a time they would watch all my stuff for free. Not only that, but they would be insulted if I tried to pay rent. Now some of those friends I would trust more than others, and some I would rather die before I trusted my cars to them. Just because they are a friend does not make them responsible At any rate, It would be interesting to hear what this frind has to say about it all. This whole situation sucks for both parties, butI strongly believe that the car still rightly belongs to Aaron as he never released his interest in the property.

Posted by: ammason Jul 3 2007, 09:08 AM

The story with my friend goes like this:

When I was planning my trip, I was supposed to be gone a month. I left the car in the care of my friend, and a month later, when I found out about the sailing gig, the friend said he'd be happy to continue to take care of the car. About 2 months later he moved a few blocks down the street, and decided that he didn't want to drive the car much because it had developed an oil leak. What 914 doesn't? The place he moved to was a loft building that didn't have parking for his motorcycle, his truck, and my car, so he left it parked where it had been, informed his neighbors, and made sure to keep checking on it. Then one day it was gone, and seeing as there was street cleaning, he figured it's been towed. I got back, we went to look in the tow yards, and you guys know the rest of the story.

I never paid rent for my friend to look after the car - that just never came up. Why would money have to go between friends? I do a lot of favors for people, and being the kind of person who lets a friend drive my Porsche while I'm away is probably the reason why a few months later a different friend flew me to Egypt via Amsterdam and paid for all our expenses. I could've just stored the car at my dad's winery, but instead I chose to pay for the insurance so my friend could enjoy my car while I wasn't able to.

If trusting my friend to look after my car was a mistake, then fine, I trusted a friend - I'll take that blame anytime; I have lots of friends and I trust them all - but that hardly constitutes justification for someone laying claim to my stolen car.

Posted by: dflesburg Jul 3 2007, 10:11 AM

Glad all you guys are on the left coast....

Stay over there.

Posted by: Sam Charters Jul 3 2007, 10:21 AM

This is one of those sad situations, Smokey you surely saw the piece on the news about the old T-bird that was gone for thirty one years and was returned to the owner that it was stolen from in California. It very much sounds to me like you unknowingly bought stolen property.

Posted by: por73914 Jul 3 2007, 10:30 AM

Here in Arkansas we have what is called a bonded title. I buy a car without a title (from a tow yard or shop) I have to send paperwork to the state with make, model, vin, and so on. They in return send me back a form to fill out and a $number that I have to get a bond from a insurance company iin that amount. The state then issues me a title in MY name and I can resale the car to anybody and the buyer and myself is protected by that bond in case there are future claims against the car. I would think since there is a "lien service" involved that there should be some kind of recourse with them. With that said, even though Smokey bought the car on good faith and has a title (although not in his name) the 914 should be returned to the rightful owner and Smokey and all the other "owners" should go back to the Lien service and the state.

Posted by: smokey Jul 3 2007, 12:44 PM

Gee Aaron, how is this car stolen! Please prove that!? CHP said it should have never been reported stolen because it never WAS stolen. You have a car down the street with the wrong plates on it being watched by a "friend" in Oakland and street cleaning. The car WAS TOWED NOT STOLEN! They (Tow Company)did not contact you because the plate that "looked good" was not you! And by the time you looked in the tow yards it was liened. You should know well enough that cars are towed from the street and complexes in the Bay Area 100's of times a day. Just go to City tow in San Francisco. Your incompetence in storing your car on the streets of Oakland or in a complex (where all it takes is 1 complaint), puting the compliant plates on it and trusting the wrong "friend" has led to your loss. That is a lack of thought of care in your vehicle. Not eveyone is on your timetable! REPEAT this car was not stolen!

You can butter up all the people on this site with your thanks and praise, yet I can't afford your foolishness. I stopped the auction originally to take the time to contact CHP as well as friends in Law enforcement, counsel etc. and give you the benefit of the doubt. I understood your loss and the discussion was to get you your car back.
Then for 3 weeks you never once contacted me. Correct? No effort on your part to provide detailed proof of anything but incompetence. You have also failed to demonstrate any seriosness in settlement. No communication whatsoever. Yet I read all the fourm threads in great detail. "I" am just a theif with a "stolen?" car, no morals, class, heart, that needs to be snuffed! "I" should give the car back, "I" should go after the lein company, "I" should get an insurance company to pay me back my funds? On the fricken contrary.
This wholething Disgusts me! You never intended to pay the costs at all. You want me to store the car for a few months until you find somebody somewhere to give you your old car. Get real, That's not going to happen.! I have legal title on this car. I bought the car legally. I have done nothing wrong! You on the otherhand have been inept on all fronts. This ludicrous situation was never of "my" choosing

Posted by: ConeDodger Jul 3 2007, 01:29 PM

Easy now Smokey. Before you start thinking Grant is your only friend you need to know something... Grant is the quintessential devils-advocate. He likes to balance arguments. You are losing so in order to bring everything out into the open and discover what is really going on he argues your side. Often, this uncovers more truth. He calls it stirring the shit But I have known Grant long enough to know he is intelligent and knows what he is doing when he does that. He is correct. There are holes in both of your stories. He is just trying to "out" one of you.
This is not the place this should play out. You are clearly not willing to let Mr. Mason work it out with you. Why don't you two place the car in the physical custody of a neutral third party and go to a mediator. Bring all of your witnesses and paperwork and let them decide.
If you want to stick to your position knowing your selling someone elses stolen car then you really shouldn't hang out here. You will find the names you are called disturbing. But, then again, it is important to have an accurate self-image.

Posted by: tdgray Jul 3 2007, 01:34 PM

Great now look who chimes in. This couldn't get anymore F'd up

Posted by: N14 Jul 3 2007, 01:40 PM

Oh to be 10 yrs old again 'finders keepers losers weepers'

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 3 2007, 02:46 PM

I have suspected this is probably closer to the true story, but who knows?

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 3 2007, 03:15 PM

10 years old?
More like 3.5...

My 8 year old daughter has more sense than that -


Smokey wants to completly ignore the laws, or only apply them when they appear to be in his favor, and claim that the car is his based on some far fetched idea that Aaron"deserved" to lose the car -



What a crock of shit...

Posted by: ammason Jul 3 2007, 03:35 PM

I don't understand how this car is not stolen. Someone took it from me, and Oakland PD themselves told me that it wasn't towed and that it was stolen. It wasn't towed. I don't want to waste any more time debating that.

I offered to pay for the car weeks ago, just as I did a few days ago, and didn't get a response while I've been following up on my side of this investigation. I told you I'd take care of all details as I've had multiple offers from people here and friends in Oakland to handle everything from paperwork to car storage for me in CA, but your intentions it seems have never been to sell the car back to me without making a profit.

If this is just going to be us going back and forth with speculation then let's just save ourselves the trouble and stop posting. As I've said before, we're both going to do what we're going to do, and making wild accusations on this board isn't going to help anyone.

If anyone here has any specific questions then please ask; otherwise, Smokey, please save everyone here the headache.

Posted by: smokey Jul 3 2007, 03:41 PM

Prove it Aaron! Prove it!!
I am the only headache from Wild Accusations! And when did you offer to pay me? When? You are unbelievable!

Posted by: TROJANMAN Jul 3 2007, 03:54 PM

Why do i find myself drawn to such idiocy?

Posted by: Rand Jul 3 2007, 03:56 PM

This clearly sucks for ammason. The car was taken from him. No question about that lame fact.

But dang. Good lesson here: A car left on a public street for any extended period of time is subject to being towed. Leaving such a car out there for so long with out-of-state obsolete plates is pretty foolish. Especially when you are putting off that responsibility "because it looks cool and might get you out of a ticket because the cop doesn't want to deal with it." That's just dumb thinking. Seems to me that taking care of this responsibility would have prevented this mess, no??

I'm not making a case for Smokey at all. I'm not impressed with his BS here. Based on what I've read though, I don't blame him for ending up with the car.

What I would like to see based on the little bit of history here:
1. We all learn from ammason's mistake.
2. Smokey, do the moral/ethical/cool/right thing and help ammason get his car back as simply as possible without trying to make a bunch of profit on it.

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 3 2007, 03:57 PM

I would think anyone buying this car would want formal document from CHP that clears this car and states the facts of the case.

Posted by: dakotaewing Jul 3 2007, 03:57 PM

Aaron -
If you have the proof, rather than providing it to Smokey, please send it to the FEDs in Oakland, and insist that they investigate Smokey for attempting to sell a stolen vehicle - Smokey continues to insist you provide all the proof, while he has provided nothing -
For the sake of all, please make sure he gets what he deserves - at the very least, a huge pain in the ass -

Posted by: Lawrence Jul 3 2007, 04:21 PM

As entertaining as this thread has been... and it's had it's moments... it's time to move on. Please direct any of your questions to the parties involved - through PMs or email.

Kind regards,
Lawrence