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Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 15 2007, 04:01 PM

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Hi George, do you have a new 914-613-913-14 turn signal assembly? If yes, cost? Looks like VW is stamped on it so perhaps it's available through them?

Its for a 72 914

Thanks,

Paul

Hi Paul. Yes we have them but expensively as we were taken to the cleaners for the last 50 of them ever to be made by swf. We have a cheap alternative for 49.50 that will work fine though.

Thanks George, I called to talk to you but you were busy. I ordered an OEM style from your gal.

Paul

I do not know what she took an order for but we do not have the oem switch for sale right now. I purchased the last twenty of them for over 165.00 each to have them but will not offer them to the public as the price is just way too much. We find the aftermarket to fit just fine and for 49.50 cannot be beat! The difference is the single copper feeler for the rubbing block for the horn.

OK George, your gal (Kerri) quoted me the price for OEM (since you did not) and I placed the order. I asked 3 times if it was the OEM switch. The order was complete. Now you say it's not. I called back to resolve it but the order is now cancelled. This kind of stuff is why you have a bad reputation in the 914 arena. I thought by e-mailing you direct that these things would be minimized. Apparently not. sigh.....

Posted by: mills914/s Jun 15 2007, 04:08 PM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jun 15 2007, 02:01 PM)

QUOTE

QUOTE

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Hi George, do you have a new 914-613-913-14 turn signal assembly? If yes, cost? Looks like VW is stamped on it so perhaps it's available through them?

Its for a 72 914

Thanks,

Paul

Hi Paul. Yes we have them but expensively as we were taken to the cleaners for the last 50 of them ever to be made by swf. We have a cheap alternative for 49.50 that will work fine though.

Thanks George, I called to talk to you but you were busy. I ordered an OEM style from your gal.

Paul

I do not know what she took an order for but we do not have the oem switch for sale right now. I purchased the last twenty of them for over 165.00 each to have them but will not offer them to the public as the price is just way too much. We find the aftermarket to fit just fine and for 49.50 cannot be beat! The difference is the single copper feeler for the rubbing block for the horn.

OK George, your gal (Kerri) quoted me the price for OEM (since you did not) and I placed the order. I asked 3 times if it was the OEM switch. The order was complete. Now you say it's not. I called back to resolve it but the order is now cancelled. This kind of stuff is why you have a bad reputation in the 914 arena. I thought by e-mailing you direct that these things would be minimized. Apparently not. sigh.....

We try hard to give people good advice and guidance here whether they want it or not and therefore more than we like get upset. Like you now. I am not one to try to placate the masses by doing the wrong thing and selling a part that is way overpriced and not worth it when there is a perfect substitution that I myself would use on my car. Obviously you (hopefully) mistook our intent and now can join those others in expressing displeasure. (Same as the guy who called the other day and wanted to buy a set of dual carbs for his 914 when I knew that the only problem was a bad pressure sensor. I refused to sell them to him. I will NOT compromise my integrity for the sake of making a sale. Sorry.

Posted by: Tobra Jun 15 2007, 04:10 PM

Maybe he was an obsessive compulsive concourse weenie who was having a bad day. As bad a things I have read about your customer service, I must say I have always been done right.

Your book still pretty much kicks ass, so you got that going for you...

Posted by: PRS914-6 Jun 15 2007, 04:43 PM

OK George you want to smoke screen this than lets go.......

My first e-mail that can be read is the part # and a request for a price. You never state the price of the OEM only the aftermarket one. I wanted OEM since the wire colors are different on the "aftermarket" one.

Since you never stated the price I called this morning to ask what the price actually was on the OEM part. You were not available to answer and your staff asked what I wanted. I stated an OEM turn signal switch # 914 613 913 14.

Your staff quoted me under $100.00 to ship the part to me and said they were in stock. I ASKED 3 TIMES IF THIS WAS AN OEM SWITCH After 3 yes's, I said I'll pay the extra and take the OEM. She takes the order, my credit card # and gives me a order confirmation #189135 I assume it's a done deal.

Later, after I PM a "thanks" you say "I do not know what she took an order for but we do not have the oem switch for sale right now. I purchased the last twenty of them for over 165.00 each to have them but will not offer them to the public as the price is just way too much"

So you do have it and you quoted the wrong price. The fact that YOU would use the aftermarket piece does not mean that I want to use it. It's MY choice

Bottom line.....

1. Your staff quoted the price
2. Your staff confirmed the sale
3. You realized there was a mistake
4. You backed out of the deal to save your "integrity"?

Hey no problem on my end. Deal cancelled but your integrity was not the reason you cancelled. Money was.

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 15 2007, 04:47 PM

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 15 2007, 05:09 PM

QUOTE(PRS914-6 @ Jun 15 2007, 03:43 PM)

Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 15 2007, 05:17 PM

As our little cars continue to return to the earth, people (including Porsche) understand the slowing demand for parts for the remaining soon to be piles of rust/dirt. Miss-communications suck, been there, done that. I have no valuable opinion on anything here, where's my beer?

There it is.

Fun read though.

Posted by: PRS914-6 Jun 15 2007, 05:18 PM

Sure, I have a new dash in the box. I'll sell it to you but after you order it, I'll "save" you and cancel since there is dash covers available that are so much cheaper and they are a perfect substitution and my integrity will still be intact.......


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Ferg Jun 15 2007, 05:20 PM

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jun 15 2007, 05:33 PM

play nice guys....

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 15 2007, 05:58 PM

QUOTE(PRS914-6 @ Jun 15 2007, 04:18 PM)

Sure, I have a new dash in the box. I'll sell it to you but after you order it, I'll "save" you and cancel since there is dash covers available that are so much cheaper and they are a perfect substitution and my integrity will still be intact.......

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 15 2007, 06:02 PM

Posted by: SLITS Jun 15 2007, 06:10 PM

Posted by: Marlow Jun 15 2007, 06:31 PM

Dr,

Are you sitting on the last 20 so you can sell them for $300 in 10 years???

If someone is willing to pay your $165 + profit for the OEM switch why not sell it to them?

I don't get it, your reasoning that "they're too expensive to sell to the public" doesn't make any sense to me.

Posted by: PRS914-6 Jun 15 2007, 06:39 PM

George, this subject drifted OT and I didn't help that much but let's put things in the proper perspective and stick to the issue.

You are in the parts business. You clearly have a lot of knowledge on 914's and I think everyone would agree.

The issue is business practises. Lets skip all the other BS about price lists etc.. On this issue the part retails for $75.26 quoted right from Porsche. However, it really doesn't matter.

Your company quoted me a specific price for this NLA part. I accepted the price and you took the order. 25% more for a NLA was fair I thought. Where the deal goes bad is hours later, you change your mind. The reason really doesn't matter. My opinion is.....suck it up and follow through with your quotation. Just about any business would. If you lose money then at least it preserves the customer relationship for the next order.

I don't need anyone telling me that a substitute part is what I ought to have just becasue YOU would use it. That's infuriating and in my opinion it's insulting as well. Some of us do know how to build a car. It's OK to suggest but give the customer what he wants whether YOU like it or not.

Bottom line......When you discovered the error you should have called me, apologized for the error and try to work it out. If we couldn't work it out you should have stuck by your quoted price. Instead, you come here. The time you spent typing here you could have called and preserved your customer. Now what do we have? A bunch of hard feelings, dirty laundry, and a lost customer. Why?

I don't get it George but it is your business to do as you please. I stand by what I said, these types of issues is what hurts AA when they could be easily resolved.

This is just my opinion George and I am not trying to offend you. I'm just trying to get you to see the customers view point. We do have a choice where we spend our money.......and these kind of issues are what makes us call you first when we need parts or call you last.......

Posted by: akellym Jun 15 2007, 06:47 PM

Posted by: sww914 Jun 15 2007, 08:57 PM

There are times when only the best will do. On a racecar that I work on, I needed a part for the accelerator linkage. My supplier talked me out of a new $65.00 and gave me a used one for $10.00. It broke. I again asked him to order a brand new one and he insisted that I take another used one, even better than the first, from a 25,000 mile car, just as good as brand new, for free. The new one still hasn't arrived and the 2nd used one is still alive, but I still want the super expensive new one because if my customer spends $2000.00 to go to the track and $1000.00 for me to get him ready to go he'll be mighty pissed if the used part breaks again and he has to come home early.
His argument to me will be- thousands of dollars spent to get there and I have to push the F%^&!#& car on the trailer over a $65.00 part.
I'd be pissed too.
Sometimes it's completely worth the extra money so that you never have to think about it again.
Sometimes the customer actually knows what they want.

Posted by: thomasotten Jun 15 2007, 09:16 PM

Well, it sounds like there was communication on both ends, so I don't see what the deal is.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jun 15 2007, 09:29 PM

I don't think there was miss communication on both side at all. I think all the communication errors were on dr914. I think in his business he should have resolved this the best he could with his customer to help his company thrive. I have heard a few other instances of this which is why I try to go anywhere else I can to find the parts I need. I admire and respect AA for having everything they have, but their service just out right sucks.

Posted by: John Jun 15 2007, 10:11 PM

It's really none of my business, but that hasn't stopped me so far...

So here is how the company that I work for operates:

The company that I work for sells things (big things, but things none the less).

Salesmen quote prices to customers on these things.

When a salesman quotes a thing to a customer, the salesman is supposed to quote a price that is our cost plus a fixed markup. The markup is supposed to cover the cost of doing business.

When the customer accepts the pricing from the salesman, a purchase order is placed. The placement of the order is a contract. If the price the salesman had quoted is found to be less than what it was supposed to be, it is the responsibility of the salesman or our owner to resolve the price difference by contacting the customer and working it out. Sometimes it means that we eat the mistake, other times the customer approves the difference in cost. Still other times, a mutually agreed to settlement is made. The order is simply not canceled. It would still be up to the customer to cancel if that is the resolution they wish to accept.

We try to work with our customers to resolve issues because we value our customers. Because of this value, we have customers that are loyal to us.

This is simply the way we do business.




As far as I know, every sale is a contract. One party offers goods or services for a price, and the other party agrees to the price. When that happens, both parties have entered a contract.



These are my opinions....

and that is all I have to say about that.

Posted by: 914-8 Jun 15 2007, 10:32 PM

You took the e-mail communications between you and your customer, and started a thread on the internet with it (i.e., Post No. 1 in this thread)?!?

Posted by: r_towle Jun 15 2007, 10:37 PM

I sell for a living.
These mistakes happen.
If its huge, or big enough to be impossible to eat the mistake, we do call and either work it out, or cancel.
If we can absorb it , we do, without any phone call.

Results.
If its small the mistake comes out of the sales guys money.
Or sales guy gets fired.
Pricing process is fixed.
Communication regarding pricing is very thorough.
We attempt to not do the same thing twice.

Rich

Posted by: drive-ability Jun 15 2007, 11:09 PM

While you may run a good business, treat your customers right theres always someone dissatisfied with something. We have all been undercharged at some point from time to time. I'm sure many point out the mistake and pay the correct price. They made a mistake and had to correct it. Yes it was about the price, its a business and as such needs to act as one... I would love to get something for a price that seems odd but realistically speaking it should be understandable a correction needed to be made.

Posted by: grantsfo Jun 16 2007, 12:26 AM

In my 27 years of owning 914's I have never purchased anything from AA. I suspect that wont change soon based on this crazy exchange?

Posted by: Dan (Almaden Valley) Jun 16 2007, 12:31 AM

QUOTE(grantsfo @ Jun 15 2007, 11:26 PM)

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 16 2007, 01:20 AM

QUOTE(PRS914-6 @ Jun 15 2007, 03:43 PM)

Posted by: PRS914-6 Jun 16 2007, 01:32 AM

I want to be clear on something here.......

The Porsche retail price of this switch is $75.26 and I was quoted close to $100.00 delivered from AA. (a fair price for NLA and I was willing to pay) Aftermarket prices run as low as $28.00 from numerous sources.

I was not trying to cut a fat hog in the ass by taking advantage of a "misquote". It was my full understanding that I was paying MORE than Porsche retail but hey it was NLA.

George apparently paid $165.00 for the remaining 20 switches of Porsche stock and nobody but George knew that and I certainly didn't know. His staff and computers obviously didn't know either. It's understandable that nobody wants to take a loss but the way this was handled stinks.

As for posting the correspondence here..... Bad business. I suspect George thought I might tell the story here and decided to jump out for damage control.. It's just too bad the effort wasn't put to better use. I just don't get it.

nuff said on this one....

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 16 2007, 01:33 AM

Sorta funny...the Dr tried to come back on the scene and reinvent himself. You knew it was just a matter of time until the REAL Dr showed back up. Nice....really nice.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Jun 16 2007, 03:09 AM

QUOTE(drive-ability @ Jun 15 2007, 10:09 PM)

While you may run a good business, treat your customers right theres always someone dissatisfied with something. We have all been undercharged at some point from time to time. I'm sure many point out the mistake and pay the correct price. They made a mistake and had to correct it. Yes it was about the price, its a business and as such needs to act as one... I would love to get something for a price that seems odd but realistically speaking it should be understandable a correction needed to be made.

Posted by: addwestern Jun 16 2007, 08:46 AM

I don't know how odd the price was.

IMHO- Sometimes, just sucking it up on one and fixing the problem is the best avenue. Sometimes, you have to look at the bigger picture and wear one if you make a mistake- that repeat customer will spend ten fold- I'm sure this exchange will end up costing AA much more than $65 by folks reading the thread.

I know the project Paul is working on- and I know he wants the best- I've supplied some of his parts. I've known others who want a new windshield- they can call there local glass supplier and get a PPG- but they want a factory spec windshield. Little differences in aftermarket parts frequently arise during early stages of use.

I've sold some stuff cheaper than what I have paid for it- but give the customer the option- even say- Hey- we screwed up on that one, but I want to make it right. That customer will leave feeling more than satisfied and will either tell others about it- or develop some loyalty toward you. There are many options of where folks spend their money.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 16 2007, 09:04 AM

1. the thread is damage control. but before the shit storm starts.
2. if your pricing sheets are out dated, FIX THE PROBLEM. delegate.
3. bordering on 'Bait and Switch'.
4. remove the items from YOUR availability list.
5. how YOU can refuse to sell a part YOU list as available, because YOU feel it's too expsensive, is beyond me.
6. this thread could have been the complete opposite. you had the chance to sell just 1 of them, at the advertised price, ate the $80 some odd loss (chump change for a high roller. write the sale off as a - at tax time), change the pricing immediately after, and had a customer that was more than pleased. actually, this thread wouldn't even exist and the firm had the op to bank some love. you may have even had to endure a "george/aa did the right thing by me" thread. penny wise, pound foolish. your marketing director must be .

k

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jun 16 2007, 09:07 AM

Perhaps the 2 of you have been married too long & it's time to face a divorce? Gentlemen... you sound like an old married couple.

Posted by: TROJANMAN Jun 16 2007, 09:54 AM

So the guy made a mistake.............BFD

I once made the mistake of paying twice the retail price for a windshield seal because the seller
misrepresented it as being NLA.
Personally, whether I was right or wrong, I would always try and do the right thing between me and another club/world member before airing it out in public.
This is a small community, and the profits made are not as important as the karma kept.

You live, you learn.

Posted by: SLITS Jun 16 2007, 10:05 AM

What this comes down to is the same story that has been told on various boards over the years. AAs' philosophy is that we need them and they don't need us as demonstrated by their business practices.

So make it happen ..... don't buy from them.

You can post all the whines and bitches you want .... it isn't going to change the attitude or basic philosophy that AA operates on.

And George, don't take this as a personal attack .... it's just an observed statement of your philosophy of business that you hand down to your employees. It is neither good nor bad; it just is.

You nor any of your minions coming here or anywhere else with "new" propaganda will sell the pig. You can put whatever dress you want on it but it is still a pig.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 16 2007, 10:09 AM

and that, as they say in texas, is "how the cow ate the cabbage".

k

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 16 2007, 12:01 PM

I sincerely appreciate all of the comments. That is why I posted this so that everyone could have a say about our company good or bad and get it off of their chests.

Posted by: 914-8 Jun 16 2007, 03:24 PM

Starting a thread on the internet, where you start by posting your e-mail exchange with a customer, is highly unprofessional and makes you look bad.

Posted by: black73 Jun 16 2007, 04:04 PM

QUOTE(914-8 @ Jun 16 2007, 03:24 PM)

Posted by: 914Tom Jun 17 2007, 04:55 AM

QUOTE(914-8 @ Jun 16 2007, 03:24 PM)

Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 17 2007, 07:42 PM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jun 16 2007, 11:01 AM)

Posted by: aircooledboy Jun 17 2007, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jun 16 2007, 10:04 AM)

6. this thread could have been the complete opposite. you had the chance to sell just 1 of them, at the advertised price, ate the $80 some odd loss (chump change for a high roller. write the sale off as a - at tax time), change the pricing immediately after, and had a customer that was more than pleased. actually, this thread wouldn't even exist and the firm had the op to bank some love. you may have even had to endure a "george/aa did the right thing by me" thread. penny wise, pound foolish. your marketing director must be .

Posted by: customstarr Jun 17 2007, 08:32 PM

My two cents (not that it matters)...

Mistakes happen, and only George and God know the real reasoning behind it. If I were George, I'd send the damn part & make a customer happy - that goes a long, long way for future business from word of mouth.

The fact that George posted the details here on this forum = total fuching bull. If he did that to me, you can belive that I would NEVER do business with him again. Period. And if it was worth losing an actual customer for a few bucks, than he's a very poor business minded man. There is a ton of competition out there (even in the 914 world), and it is stuff like this that makes me look elsewhere.

Posted by: Twystd1 Jun 17 2007, 08:33 PM

I am so pissed I don't know what to write.

George, don't break your word. That includes your employees word.

AA fucked up. Not the purchaser. Honor the commitment. Give the man his goods for the agreed price.

All this for an 80 buck difference worth of NLA parts...?????
Is breaking your company's commitment to honor it's word worth the 80 bucks?

Based on facts....... Apparently.... YES.

That is a sad commentary on what men will do to retain things.
Where is the honor in that?

Clayton

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 17 2007, 09:02 PM

Its $80 George...

Posted by: boxstr Jun 17 2007, 10:10 PM

My wife recently read a book written by Paula Dean, successful cook and restaurant owner, TV show Host, HGTV. She said, to be successful in a service business, you have to be willing to humble yourself and think of yourself as a servant to the people you are dealing with.
I feel I am a servant to anyone I deal with when it comes to purchasing items from CAMP 914. I will go out of my way to make sure the customer is happy, I want to make sure they will come back because of a good experience with me.
Craig C. Laughlin CAMP 914

Posted by: krazykonrad Jun 17 2007, 10:13 PM

Anyone ever notice that the other major 914/ Porsche suppliers seem never to have these type of type of threads? AA has got em about once a month.
Konrad

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 18 2007, 12:17 PM

QUOTE(aircooledboy @ Jun 17 2007, 07:09 PM)

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jun 16 2007, 10:04 AM)

6. this thread could have been the complete opposite. you had the chance to sell just 1 of them, at the advertised price, ate the $80 some odd loss (chump change for a high roller. write the sale off as a - at tax time), change the pricing immediately after, and had a customer that was more than pleased. actually, this thread wouldn't even exist and the firm had the op to bank some love. you may have even had to endure a "george/aa did the right thing by me" thread. penny wise, pound foolish. your marketing director must be .

No question. This whole line about "integrity" smells very bad. To be clear: Your people screwed up a price quote, you can ship the part because you have it, and the loss would be about $85, but your "integrity" prohibts you from allowing the deal to be honored? George, sometimes I sell the unbelievable for a living, and I wouldn't try to sell that one on bet.

I was pretty glad to have you here George, and willing to give you a chance to prove your mudd. But I've got to say, the only way you turn around a major black eye here is to honor the deal. Anything else is close to concrete proof your only real desire is to sit on those switches until you preceive a chance to maximize the future benefit you can get from holding them.

Your move George.

Posted by: mzapisek Jun 18 2007, 12:54 PM

George,

Whatever happened to the "customer is always right" mentality. If you have a receptionist working for you quoting part prices then you are at fault. It's your business and your folks. If there is a breakdown in communication caused by the wrong people giving out info on your end - you should fix it.

I don't know what your paying yourself but even at $10.00 an hour you have already cost yourself more the the $80.00 price difference with this can of worms.

When I send someone an email I consider it privileged. Your an absolute idiot for breaking the trust of a customer in such a public forum.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jun 18 2007, 01:12 PM

I cannot believe this is still going on and AA is dragging it on. The fact it was even posted on here is bad enough. Why should any of us want to do business with you? If it wasn't for the fact that you have parts that cannot be found anywhere else I am sure that we would all go elsewhere. This is a perfect example of bad business.

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 18 2007, 01:15 PM

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 18 2007, 01:59 PM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jun 18 2007, 11:17 AM)

Posted by: Ferg Jun 18 2007, 02:08 PM

Ferg

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jun 18 2007, 02:46 PM

ok I give up and am bowing out.

Posted by: sww914 Jun 18 2007, 03:05 PM

Why not do the right thing instead of giving up? The only thing preventing you from sending this guy a switch is you.
You could loose a little on one deal and impress a lot of people, but you have chosen to do what you want to do, and I don't think that you've done yourself any favors here.

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jun 18 2007, 03:06 PM

This can all be over with with the simple sale of a OEM switch

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jun 18 2007, 03:09 PM

Uhhhhh, "don't let the door, you know, .........................." The Cap'n

Posted by: woobn8r Jun 18 2007, 03:14 PM

Phew...this is a tough room.....

Posted by: 914-8 Jun 18 2007, 03:55 PM

finally stopped

Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 18 2007, 04:11 PM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jun 18 2007, 01:46 PM)

Posted by: black73 Jun 18 2007, 04:37 PM

I think the estrogen level on this board has reached a new all time high.

Posted by: Johny Blackstain Jun 18 2007, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(black73 @ Jun 18 2007, 06:37 PM)

Posted by: rhodyguy Jun 19 2007, 09:53 AM

7. go into your data base and list the part as NLA. if you can't trust your staff to do your bidding, do it yourself or release and rehire. if porsche sets the benchmark for your pricing, how is it you were selling the targa top seals for less than i paid from the porsche dealership? how you can bag on your "receptionist (for lack of a better word)", if she's only looking at availaibility and pricing on her computer, is pretty god damn weak! you can put instances like this away forever by handling all the sales, both online and via the telephone, yourself, as you appearently have ALL of the current and up to date information. looks like the "first rule of plumbing" is applicable in marrietta ga. your poor "receptionist (for lack of a better word)" has the job from hell. dealing with angry and frustrated customers on a constant basis must be a real joy.

k

Posted by: aircooledboy Jun 19 2007, 11:37 AM

Posted by: jaminM3 Jun 19 2007, 11:52 AM

I bought some stuff from Performance parts and everything seemed fine?

Maybe there should be a thread specifically listing vendors and peoples experiences..

Posted by: N14 Jun 19 2007, 12:46 PM

any publicity is good publicity - I'm going out on a limb here but I'd suggest this is not the case here

Posted by: PRS914-6 Jun 20 2007, 04:56 PM

QUOTE(dr914@autoatlanta.com @ Jun 18 2007, 11:17 AM)