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Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:07 PM

Hey guys, I'm happy to be here. I just picked up a '76 2.0L that is set up as a track car. It's just incredible to drive and the engine sounds amazing behind me. I've only ever driven front engine cars, and the only thing i'm reminded of with the 914 is go-karting.

My questions are many. Let me describe the engine to you.
The P.O. was a 914 mechanic for many years, but says he did things to the car that porsche guys would cringe about. I didnt really know what he was saying, but I still bought the car because the entire car is rust free.

It turns out what he did was: put a rebuilt 2.0L in there, stripped all the heating stuff, stripped the interior, resprayed with bedliner(i actually like this), put in 5 point harnesses, momo wheel & shift knob, took the radio/heater out, took the speakers out, took EVERYTHING out.

The engine is a 2.0L as I said, it's got a single weber progressive, hydraulic lifters, what i can only say is a distributor with no vaccuum advance and it's got the heater tin stripped off the manifold. The exhaust is off a suzuki motorcycle but it sounds incredible. it just goes straight from the manifold into the pipe. One for each bank of cylinders.

My questions:
my throttle is really REALLY sticky, I either get idle or a pretty good push. There is not a whole lot of power at WOT. Great low end torque and the sound is nice. I was going to replace the fuel pump from one of those clicky POSes (that failed while on loop 610, think 80mph traffic going by without stop) and needed whack from a wrench to get running again java script:emoticon(':WTF:',%20'smid_7') to one of the rotary CB ones i just got from pelican.

What should I do about this guys? The car is just so much fun to drive, i've stopped mis-shifting into 4th from first, i'm still reverse-shy though, as i dont think it has a lockout, because it will grind like crazy, ask me how i know.
The engine is tuned really well and seems to run great on the carb, i guess that means it has a carb cam in it, because it starts and runs just great.

Did I buy a great car with a crap engine?

Purple

Posted by: KaptKaos Jul 24 2007, 04:11 PM

Posted by: George H. Jul 24 2007, 04:12 PM

my guess is your engine is out of a bus............

can't tell you if you bought a great car as

but if it truly rust free your on your way to a nice one

Posted by: George H. Jul 24 2007, 04:13 PM

Kapt be me too I hate when that happens

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 24 2007, 04:16 PM

Track cars don't run Progressive Weber's
Track cars have roll cages or roll bar at the very least (DE car)

Fun street car possibly. You will never get good power out of the motor with that carb.

I have a few videos of my car on track if you need a reference to what a 2.0L 914 with cam and dual carbs should do. I need to get the link to You tube (Joe_914).

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:17 PM

here are the pics I have, i need to snap some of the engine, but i these are all i have


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Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:18 PM

And some more


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Posted by: 914nerd Jul 24 2007, 04:22 PM

Welcome
It's got potential
Ditch the carb and go to some other ones (any idea what the cam is?) or FI
The exhaust is also a power point and these cars like 4-1 or 4-2-1 collector systems
But who really cares?
Drive it and have fun with it

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:22 PM

You guys are fast!

I have been lurking a little... I hear that that weber is the biggest POS to put on that engine. I'm not a big fan of the 911 rear reflector, but it was bolted through the back panel with 6 bolts, meaning if i take it off so i can actually put a latch on the rear trunk, i'd have 6 extra holes back there

I guess you're right about it not being a 'track' car. the only other car like this i've owned was an '07 miata GT and i'm missing the variable valve timing and 7k rpm redline and all the power that's associated with 2L of fury. So i dont really know about what a track car is.

The 914 also doesnt handle ANYTHING like the miata, as I could chuck it at corners and it would take care of it. I do find that this car takes quite a bit of finesse, but it handles very well when I take care and drive it right

I have no idea what the cam is, but it runs pretty well with carbs, so I assume it was meant for them. Is it true that hydraulic lifters starve the rockers of oil? What should I ditch the progressive for?

Oh yeah, the odometer is broken too... and there is NO gauge lighting, but all the exterior lights work. the idiot lights also work. the oil temp sender is not hooked up either.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 24 2007, 04:26 PM

Go attend as many Autocrosses as you can. You will REALLy be amazed at what your car is capable of.
And be careful on the street. These little cars are somewhat hard to see and if moving quickly it is a sure thing some duffuss in a SUV will pull out in front of you.

Or never be able to brake as quick as you can. Likely to get run over.

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:29 PM

Joe,

You're right, on the street i've been pulled in front of a couple times (in just one week) and a semi came into my lane a couple days ago. I figured that 'arrest-me-red' would help with people noticing me, but i guess not. I had similar problems in the miata.

I think the car also has factory sways, i remember when it was on the lift it had them

Posted by: 914nerd Jul 24 2007, 04:29 PM

For the rear reflector, you can weld up the holes (or have them welded up for a price) or you can just live with it. If it is a solenoid release, and has problems opening, search on here for the vendor that is making cable releases for them.
As for the handling, you will get used to it and really like it
Any idea what the suspension is like? that's probably one of the first things to look at to make these fast (power in these is not necessarily the answer)

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:41 PM

The suspension is really tight and has NO slop. He replaced all the bushings shortly before selling it. He also replaced the rotors and rebuilt the calipers and put new pads on. The car corners FLAT and seems to have tons of grip when i drive it right. When I dont the back end is really easy to step out, but very controllable.

The trunk has NO latch. the only thing holding it closed is the force of the springs. I found the parts on ebay for the latch.

I was going to fabricate a hidden electric popper so that i wouldnt have to run a big cable.

It also has no emergency brake, I do have the cables and handle for that, but they are OFF the car. The access holes to the center tunnel also look like they were welded shut, or at the very least tacked shut and then sprayed over with bedliner.
I think he replaced the fuel line with a metal one, but it was really skinny and bouncing around in there, and getting hit by the bottom of the shifter. I zip tied it to the clutch tube and that seems to have stopped it being hit by the shifter. I dunno if it's a fuel line or a brake line though.

Posted by: 914nerd Jul 24 2007, 04:49 PM

Hmmm...
Definitely get a latch for the rear to hold it closed properly
It's easy to figure out whether it's a brake line or fuel line
first off, it's tiny (probably a brake line then)
But you can always just trace where it goes
Also you can look for the regular fuel line(s)
Relatively hard plastic stuff was stock

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 04:53 PM

Joe, I found your youtube video....uh, DAYUM!

My car is NOWHERE near that fast. It does corner like that though.

What kind of shifter do you have in there? I have to shift mine slowly or i'll grind 2nd, but that's probably me just being new to shifting... the odd-way at least, the miata was a 6 spd, but you could be in 6th by 45mph

Posted by: GWN7 Jul 24 2007, 06:03 PM

Drive with your lights on (even during the day time) it will help you not get run over by Texas caddys.

Posted by: KaptKaos Jul 24 2007, 06:11 PM

It doesn't look like you have any gauges in the center console. You have the combo temp/fuel filler gauge in the left position, so why the center console.

Nice car BTW.

Show pix of engine and exhaust. I had thought (please kick me if I am wrong) that the typeIV needed to have all 4 exhausts merge into one, or it doesn't put out as much power. I am no expert on this, so please take my comments as such.

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 07:58 PM

All questions can be answered by 'the p.o. did it'

the center console actually has all the wiring behind it, much to my surprise, but all the gauges are gone, it's just a piece of 1/4'' poplar with some vinyl stuck on(i made that nicer at least, the adhesive was coming off, you gotta pick your battles, ya know?)

I'll snap some pics of the engine and exhaust as soon as possible. you guys will love the carb linkage....

Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 08:16 PM

The pics I snapped of the exhaust are trash because someone appears to have stolen the little flourescent tube out of my garage and my halogen floodlamp has burned out. The linkage should be quite obvious, and the carb is there... What do you guys think?


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Posted by: purple Jul 24 2007, 09:35 PM

I just figured out it has a facet fuel pump 'famous for starving carbs' I'm glad i'm replacing it with a CB rotary. It stopped pumping while i was on the highway, little turd. I'll be pulling the gas tank and replacing the lines in the front trunk when I do this. I will also be doing the POR-15 treatment to it.

Is there anything i should be careful of or looking for during this operation?

Posted by: majkos Jul 24 2007, 10:06 PM

Since you're pulling the tank,mighta's well install some sway's

It IS super easy to install. Stock sways are just fine to start with.

Posted by: rjames Jul 24 2007, 10:22 PM

QUOTE(majkos @ Jul 24 2007, 09:06 PM)

Since you're pulling the tank,mighta's well install some sway's

It IS super easy to install. Stock sways are just fine to start with.

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 12:01 AM

yeah, factory sways are on it...

Thanks for the input though

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 25 2007, 06:18 AM

Purple, the shifter is stock side shift with the usual tweeks like bronze bushings and new poly bushings.
Just gotta learn it.

Yellow cars with loud pipes help. and the fact that I try an be aware of the blind spots this little bugger can hide in.

Posted by: Spoke Jul 25 2007, 06:51 AM

Welcome to the World.

Looks like a nice car. Hope you have lots of fun in it. A couple of things I've learned with 914's:

The progressive single carb, to me, is what you put on your car when you're selling it and you still want to get $300-$500 for your dual Webers/Delletoros, so you take them off and sell separately and put on the progressive. Look for some dual carbs on this site and other 914 sites. I changed from progressive to dual Webers in my 1.7L and the difference is amazing. At WOT now, I get power. With the progressive, all I got at WOT was a cloud of 1/2 burnt gas coming out the exhaust.

I just removed the rear reflector on my 74. I have a welder so I welded up the holes and repainted. Either get yourself a welder, or buy your welder buddy a case of beer and go visit him.

In a 914, you will look up to all vehicles. It's kinda freaky when you look at the SUV beside you and realize that your head is even with the top of his tire. Or when you look in the rearview mirror and see a massive grill. Just be careful and keep your eyes open. Also just like a motorcycle, people are looking for vehicles of a certain width and height. Your 914 is wide enough but not high enough.

Good luck,
Spoke

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 07:19 AM

So dual carbs is something to do...is it okay to do dual webers? i thought they were out of business, does that make it hard to find parts? How much would I be spending? $300-$500? Should I do something about the hydraulic lifters? CAN I do something about it? Are they bad?

How hard is it to tune dual carbs? will the throttle be less sticky? Should I look into this megasquirt FI system? I did 4 years of EE, so soldering wouldnt be an issue...

Thanks guys

Ohh, btw. Is it considered lame to put the porsche crest on the hood? I really want to put this car's proper branding on there. The lettering for the engine grate is gone, and the grate itself looks like...well like a 30 year old piece of grating. Do you guys have some tips on re-finishing the engine grating?

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 25 2007, 08:41 AM

go to the classic thread section and see if your f.p. is powered as outlined in andy's write up. if not, change it over when you're swapping the pump. it's the easiest and best way to do it. you will NOT miss that incessant rattling of the facet.

k

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jul 25 2007, 08:44 AM

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 25 2007, 09:00 AM

I got some engine lid letters and a front hood crest. PM me for details. I'll make you a sweet deal just to piss Paul off.

Posted by: URY914 Jul 25 2007, 09:07 AM

QUOTE(Joe Ricard @ Jul 25 2007, 07:00 AM)

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 09:51 AM

As it turns out joe, my parents found out about this purchase and decided to hook me up with a crest and the lettering...they had a 71 back before I was born, my dad is giddy with joy over the fact I got one of these, same color too. They had it for two years, so he knows all kinds of tricks and tips, just not the dual weber kind

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 25 2007, 09:57 AM

Well Someday I will go with an Aftermarket EFI system.
You know Electronic carbs. Just as soon as Paul pays up, This ass ain't free.







Sorry dude but this thread is going down hill and it is all my fault.

If you find something else you need post it as WTB in the classifieds. I unloaded a shit load of stuff to Rob Watson 2 weeks ago. Now I can see the back wall of my storage and now have even more still good stuff to sell off.

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 10:00 AM

I just looked at the sirAndy writeup on how to make the fuel pump wiring work...awesome.

The issue I have is the P.O. did something funny... he somehow wired a little orange LED to the gauge cluster to let him know the fuel pump was getting power. I have NO idea what's going on in the engine bay as far as FI brain trickery is concerned, but I do know that i dont like the crimp/spade connectors he was using for the facet.

I was going to solder & heat shrink the connections, so i dont have corrosion issues of those stupid spade connectors...those things and I have a history

I guess I'll be looking in that relay box to see what's going on in there.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Jul 25 2007, 10:03 AM

Your in Houston???

Hmm I was in Houston for the National tour a few months ago. That traffice really sucks. be careful out there.

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 10:06 AM

I kinda like houston traffic when it goes the speed it normally does...at least 80. You're right though, between dodging the horrendous holes in the road and the horrendous SUV's it's pretty dangerous to drive here. I have a mazda6 v6 as a daily driver, this 914 is for nice days and dates at the moment.

BTW, taking my GF for a ride in this car was a f'n brilliant idea...

Posted by: 914nerd Jul 25 2007, 10:15 AM

Yep, you gotta be careful with these things
Just this morning I almost had a semi drive over me while I was stopped at a stop sign and he was turning into the oncoming lane
Guy didn't even notice me I don't think and if I hadn't backed up, he would have taken the front and probably top right off the car

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 10:26 AM

sometimes i think i could probably do the under the semi trailer stunt from the griswald's christmas vacation with this car, not that I'd want to. looking up at the hubs on a semi next to me is CRAZY

Posted by: 914nerd Jul 25 2007, 10:36 AM

I would have probably been ok going under it except for the fact that he was going to drive over the left side of me with his tires
That and the hanging fuel tank in the middle

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 01:07 PM

Found a shop locally that will powdercoat the grates for their minimum price of $125 + 3% for environmental. They say 2-3 weeks.

Is this a good deal?

I realize right now i'm just doing cosmetic stuff, but I'm slowly working my way up to the big stuff, I've never had a car like this that responds so well to being worked on

Posted by: Grelber Jul 25 2007, 01:27 PM

If you don't mind the cash outlay......... But it does seem like overkill. I'd just strip it and paint it.

BTW, if you haven't seen it yet, the MUSR (Mid US Ramble) will be late Sept./early Oct. in the Kerrville area. Should be 20+ teeners there.

Posted by: purple Jul 25 2007, 01:32 PM

How would you strip something like this?

I also found this on ebay, but the quality of the picture tells me it could be the same mess mine is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914-Engine-Bay-Grill-w-Lettering_W0QQitemZ320138705542QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42611QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

What kind of paints would you use for a project like this?

Posted by: 914nerd Jul 25 2007, 03:01 PM

I would say use Something like Por15
A bunch of people on here swear by it for preventing rust and those types of products (Por15, KBS, etc.) tend to be pretty strong coatings
I would imagine you could use most any paint you want (please, not house paint)
Regular automotive paint would probably do fine

Posted by: rhodyguy Jul 26 2007, 08:12 AM

way too much money for that small amount of powder coating. hit the phone book for a better price. on the cheap, bomb them with Krylon semi-flat black. close to the original finish, and priced just right for a casob 914 owner. craig @ camp914 has new welt pieces that are around the grills for that 'new' look.

k

Posted by: purple Jul 26 2007, 11:11 AM

I'd like to strip the existing black stuff off the grating before I'd hit it with some paint. I have a really nice airbrush setup...is it possible i could spray some nice automotive paints on there? Are there any water-based ones? cleaning an airbrush is expensive for all the damn solvent you have to use if you dont use water-base.

Dunno, it seems to me a job worth doing is worth doing right the first time.

Also, does anyone know the bolt sizes of the trunk latch assembly to bolt it to the car? I found a complete working assembly, but no bolts to affix it to the car. Also, where can i find the plastic shock washer and that spring that goes around the trunk post?

Thanks Guys

Posted by: Spoke Jul 26 2007, 09:06 PM

I painted the engine grill on my red 914 with gloss black. I wet sanded the paint then rattle can'ed it and replaced the letters. I like the gloss look and it's easy to clean and remove wayward wax.

For the trunk lock bolts, I don't know the actual number but do know it's the one with a 10mm head. I get my metric hardware at the local Ace hardware store. HD and Lowes may have them but they are usually more expensive and sometimes their stock really bites.

Spoke

Posted by: purple Jul 27 2007, 12:02 PM

That sounds like some good tips guys, thanks!

I think I'm going to go with this setup for carbs: http://catalog.eautopartscatalog.com/autopartsplace/quote.jsp?PBJ=070727_115543_0256269478_APP&year=1976&make=PO&product=S1000-43496&application=000596781

looks like dual weber 40's. What should I use for a linkage to the crossbar? Joe, do you have pics of how you connected your throttle linkage to the crossbar?

How often do you need to adjust carbs? Can someone with RC car carb experience do it? Do these have to be jetted?

Sorry for the questions, I'm so lost when it comes to carbs.

Posted by: 914rrr Jul 29 2007, 07:50 PM

QUOTE(purple @ Jul 27 2007, 02:02 PM)

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 29 2007, 08:11 PM

if you haven't already done so, ditch that exhaust ...

the T4 motor needs the backpressure from the other bank of cylinders. having a single exhaust for each bank will cost you 10%-15% of your power ...


i hope you used the term "914 mechanic" loosely in regards to the PO ...
Andy

Posted by: purple Jul 30 2007, 10:33 AM

Hey guys, I'm honored to have the heavy hitters (joe & sirAndy) replying to my thread.

Over the weekend I didnt have much time to work on her, but i looked around and, much to my dismay, the more I look, the more I find wrong.
I was looking at the wiring for the fuel pump, and it turns out they have some rube goldberg setup going on that I have little clue how to reverse. The 'FI brain trick' was not applied to the car, so i have no idea how the thing's getting power. I also found a few wires cut in the wiring harness, so i'm curious what those do.

On the good news side, i found that i DO have the floorboard for the drivers side and it DOES have the clutch stop on it. I am replacing the old masonite one with the rennline aluminum one and the fact it has the clutch bumper makes me happy!

I was going to put dual 40's on there and I think i've found a reasonable deal for brand new carbs, around $750 , is that reasonable for brand new? I wanted brand new so i dont have to futz with rebuilding these things as i've never done anything like that.

Should I put a bursch on the porsche? Is that the consensus for what's a good exhaust for this car? is it really 10-15%? !!! That's crazy! I had no idea exhaust mattered that much on a 4 stroke engine. I thought only 2 strokers were that sensitive.

Also, what type of ignition do you recommend? I have a distributor that doesnt advance, at least not that i know of, the vaccuum line off the carb goes NOWHERE. Isnt it supposed to advance the timing? Should I do crane or mallory or MSD or what?
Thanks guys.

Posted by: xperu Jul 30 2007, 10:56 AM

QUOTE(xperu @ Jul 29 2007, 02:27 PM)

Posted by: purple Jul 30 2007, 10:58 AM

Peru, I'm located on the west side on eldridge & briar forest.

Does that count as league city @646? i thought that was the dickinson exit

Posted by: xperu Jul 30 2007, 11:17 AM

QUOTE(purple @ Jul 30 2007, 11:58 AM)

Posted by: purple Aug 1 2007, 08:00 AM

Hey Peru, PM me with your phone# and we'll set something up. Do you know of a good shop to dyno the car at? I'd like to see my baseline HP and torque so I can measure gains from the work I'm doing.

Do you guys think that replacing the facet pump with the CB rotary fuel pump will give me a power gain? I have a friend telling me that if I have more fuel pressure to the carb, that I'll get more power. Is this true?

Posted by: Jake Raby Aug 1 2007, 08:21 AM

Toss the progressive before you waste any more time trying to make it run. I totally gave up on those ten years ago and life has been much better since!

Posted by: purple Aug 1 2007, 10:14 AM

Jake, That's the plan. I mean the car runs decently well, everyone I've had in it says it runs well and is tuned well, but it has very little power. I mean I can squeal the tires on takeoff by accident, but acceleration is like driving a wheat thresher or something, just feels like the engine is reluctant to rev at all. I'm just used to the 2.0L in my old miata, that thing would get past 5k rpm and then start screaming all the way to 7k. My mazda6 v6 pulls like a beast (3.0L) and I just feel like this car can do so much more than it is doing right now. I have a feeling that the progressive is robbing me of tons of power, that the exhaust is robbing me, and the ignition is robbing me. I BEEN ROBBED, SON!

It looks like my heat exchangers have been modified to put those motorcycle pipes on there, so it looks like i'll have to get new ones along with the bursch.

Sheesh, this car is already looking like a money pit...
And the tires are absolute shit... HR METRIC, whatever the hell those are. I was going to try and put some Falken Azenis on there. Any thoughts?

Posted by: DerekKim Aug 1 2007, 02:23 PM

I've had the privelage of driving Joe's car at an autocross. It's freakin amazing! Listen to Jake in anything he has to say ab out TIV motor work. He's the man to go to. For the exhaust. I have the bursch and it is really quiet. If you are looking for the best, sound and power. Go with a tangerine. It cost more now but it's worth it in the long run.

Posted by: Joe Ricard Aug 1 2007, 03:24 PM

So what made you think that buying a 30+ yr old sports car was going to be cheap?
For the money and performance level there certainly are better choices to win on race day.

914's are to be loved and rubbed and wallet opened. I've spent less money on women and booze than I have on my 914. AND THAT'S ALOT.