Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ NOW WHAT?
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 6 2007, 03:02 PM
Just as my mechanic was about to set the timing on my 74 2.0, it ran out of gas! 
OK, no biggie, just gas up and move along. WRONG!!!!!! No fuel pressure from fuel pump. WTF!!!!
Coincidence, gremlins, bad luck, or what?????
How to run this down, and in what order?? All help greatly appreciated
P.S. Car had been running with no fuel problems.
Posted by: Steve Thacker Aug 6 2007, 03:14 PM
Humor me in my questions.
A.\ Can you hear the fuel pump kick in, when turning on the key?
If not, check your relay board for a corroded relay post (s) or one of the fuses came loose on the relay board. (I had this happen last week)
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 10 2007, 10:48 AM
BUMP!!
Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Aug 10 2007, 11:43 AM
There is lots of great info to give BUT more info needs to be given. If your fuel pump at least turns on with the key for a sec, then that eliminates lots of things. Otherwise, there are 6-8 things to check if there is no power to the pump. I had a good thread a while back diagnosing my issues. Good luck 
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 16 2007, 02:24 PM
There is lots of great info to give BUT more info needs to be given. If your fuel pump at least turns on with the key for a sec, then that eliminates lots of things. Otherwise, there are 6-8 things to check if there is no power to the pump. I had a good thread a while back diagnosing my issues. Good luck
No power to pump! Fuse and relay are good.
Posted by: terrymason Aug 16 2007, 02:30 PM
fuel injection or carbs? If carbs, what type of fuel pump?
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 16 2007, 02:31 PM
fuel injection or carbs? If carbs, what type of fuel pump?
Fuel injection.
Posted by: toon1 Aug 16 2007, 02:49 PM
can yu get to the electrical plug and check for 12v?
Posted by: swl Aug 16 2007, 04:49 PM
[No power to pump! Fuse and relay are good.
That should be relays - plural. Both the master relay and the fuel pump relay are involved in the fuel pump.
Wait a minute - I'm talking 73 - what year did the dual relay thing cut in.
edit: ok - checked it out. the dual relay is an L-jet thing so your d-jet should have the normal relays on the relay board. Check them both.
like toon said - can you confirm that you really don't have power to the pump? I'm not a fan of 'coincidence'.
Posted by: kfieler Aug 16 2007, 06:10 PM
Just as my mechanic was about to set the timing on my 74 2.0, it ran out of gas!
OK, no biggie, just gas up and move along. WRONG!!!!!! No fuel pressure from fuel pump. WTF!!!!Coincidence, gremlins, bad luck, or what?????
How to run this down, and in what order?? All help greatly appreciated
P.S. Car had been running with no fuel problems.
Okay, I am a "newbie" here and not an expert. That said...
I just resolved the fuel pump problems I had in my car (I purchased the car in non-running condition and the PO told me it had sat for about 10 years). The car in question is a stock 1973 914 1.7 with fuel injection.
In my opinion, the first thing you need to do is to verify if your pump is working or not.
You may want to try this...
Cut a piece of 16 GA wire that is long enough to reach from your battery to your fuel pump's electrical connector. Crimp a push-on connector to one end of the wire. Strip about 3" off the other end of the wire. Mark both ends of the wire with "GROUND".
Make another identical wire (as explained above), but mark this one "+".
At the fuel pump, carefully remove the electrical connector. Then, paying close attention to the polarity, install the two "jumper wires" you just made to the fuel pump.
I cannot stress the fact that the polarity must be correct; as your pump *CAN* run backwards but will not put fuel under pressure to the engine! Please don't ask me how I know!
Make sure you have sufficient fuel in the fuel tank.
Now, attach the "+" and "GROUND" leads of the "jumper wires" you just made directly to your car battery.
If you have a working fuel pump, you should be able to hear the pump "whirring" at this time.
After verifying that you have no fuel leaks (that could cause a fire), go-ahead and try to start the car (with the fuel pump running, still being powered directly from the car battery).
If your car starts and runs, then you know you've got a good fuel pump. If the pump doesn't work (mine didn't), then you may want to tear it down (which is what I did). I serviced my "stuck" fuel pump and now it works just fine. I took photos of the process. If you are interested, let me know.
Once you've verified that you have a working fuel pump, you can then start troubleshooting your potential electrical issues (I would start by making sure that the relay board, the relays, connectors and fuse are all good).
When I started trying to get my car going, I had a plethora of problems I had to sort-out with the fuel pump. I FEEL YOUR PAIN!
If you need more troubleshooting advise in this area, let me know... as it is all still VERY FRESH IN MY MIND!
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 16 2007, 06:53 PM
Thanks, everybody!!!
We just put 12 volts directly to the fuel pump, and guess what??? DEAD!!!
Now I'm in the market for a good used fuel pump!!! ANYBODY????
BTW, are fuel pumps engine size specific????
Posted by: swl Aug 16 2007, 07:15 PM
try a WTB in the classifieds - something may pop up. You see them occasionally on ebay but they carry a hefty price. Last I looked both AA and pelican sold rebuilts but even they may now be NLA. Same size for all engines. 3 port for the early pump that was located in the rear of the car. 2 port for the later ones mounted in the front trunk
Worst case scenario is going to an aftermarket pump - they can be had in the $150 range.
caveate on the next thought - it did not work for me! but...
These pumps are really robust electrically. The normal failures are from aging rubber - o-rings and a nipple on the pop off valve (yours is a three port pump right?) It may be possible that when you ran out of gas the pump heated up (gas actually cools it) and caused the normal varnish crap to weld up a bit. These pumps don't have a lot of starting torque so it doesn't take much to stall them. You may be able to salvage the pump.
step one: with power applied give it a few taps with a hammer. Hi tech huh
Failing that - take it apart. You can't be any worse off and a half hour of shining up the innards may get you going again. Long shot but worth it. You will find that the o-rings expand like crazy when you take them off. Immediately get all excess gas off them. You will probably have to bake them to get them back down to a size where you can re-install them. I have not found a source for new rubber.
Posted by: slim72914 Aug 17 2007, 02:20 AM
Isnt there any aftermarket pump that will work with the Bosch FI??? What is the working pressure on a 914? I did a tuned port injection fuel injection conversion on a chevy v8 and the pump was like 65 bucks. Gotta be something out there that can work with a little replumbing.
Posted by: swl Aug 17 2007, 05:42 AM
Isnt there any aftermarket pump that will work with the Bosch FI??? What is the working pressure on a 914? I did a tuned port injection fuel injection conversion on a chevy v8 and the pump was like 65 bucks. Gotta be something out there that can work with a little replumbing.
http://www.centuryperformance.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=MAL-4060FI
meets the specs but it $160. I've heard from others that it works fine. It recommends, however, that you keep it within 2 feet of the tank and below it. That would suggest it should be moved to the front trunk.
Posted by: toon1 Aug 17 2007, 09:04 AM
I used an MDS pump on mine, It's avail. from summit racing for $95.
It has two ports, rotary vein. I noticed a big difference after putting it in.
I will say it's noisy.
almost any FI pump will work with our cars, The stock FI pressure on a 914 is 29 PSI. most modern cars are running 43.5
Posted by: kfieler Aug 17 2007, 10:30 AM
try a WTB in the classifieds - something may pop up. You see them occasionally on ebay but they carry a hefty price. Last I looked both AA and pelican sold rebuilts but even they may now be NLA. Same size for all engines. 3 port for the early pump that was located in the rear of the car. 2 port for the later ones mounted in the front trunk
Worst case scenario is going to an aftermarket pump - they can be had in the $150 range.
caveate on the next thought - it did not work for me! but...
These pumps are really robust electrically. The normal failures are from aging rubber - o-rings and a nipple on the pop off valve (yours is a three port pump right?) It may be possible that when you ran out of gas the pump heated up (gas actually cools it) and caused the normal varnish crap to weld up a bit. These pumps don't have a lot of starting torque so it doesn't take much to stall them. You may be able to salvage the pump.
step one: with power applied give it a few taps with a hammer. Hi tech huh
Failing that - take it apart. You can't be any worse off and a half hour of shining up the innards may get you going again. Long shot but worth it. You will find that the o-rings expand like crazy when you take them off. Immediately get all excess gas off them. You will probably have to bake them to get them back down to a size where you can re-install them. I have not found a source for new rubber.
... I would try to bring the old pump back to life.I hot-wired my fuel pump and found it did not run immediately. I left the power applied for about a minute-or-so and, magically, it started to spin-up!
I had the polarity wrong on the pump (for reasons I won't go into here). The pump motor was running, but not pressurizing the system (because it was running backwards).
Thinking that I had a defective pump, I decided to tear-it-down. I took it apart, cleaned all the inners, put it back together, resolved the polarity issue and I now have a perfectly fine working fuel pump (for no cash outlay).
Good luck!
- Keith
Posted by: tdgray Aug 17 2007, 10:57 AM
I replaced mine with an MSD from Summit. Very reliable but noisy.
If I did it again I would build some kind of enclosure for it to dampen the noise.
Good deal though for like $85.00
Posted by: JC 914 Aug 17 2007, 01:41 PM
try a WTB in the classifieds - something may pop up. You see them occasionally on ebay but they carry a hefty price. Last I looked both AA and pelican sold rebuilts but even they may now be NLA. Same size for all engines. 3 port for the early pump that was located in the rear of the car. 2 port for the later ones mounted in the front trunk
Worst case scenario is going to an aftermarket pump - they can be had in the $150 range.
caveate on the next thought - it did not work for me! but...
These pumps are really robust electrically. The normal failures are from aging rubber - o-rings and a nipple on the pop off valve (yours is a three port pump right?) It may be possible that when you ran out of gas the pump heated up (gas actually cools it) and caused the normal varnish crap to weld up a bit. These pumps don't have a lot of starting torque so it doesn't take much to stall them. You may be able to salvage the pump.
step one: with power applied give it a few taps with a hammer. Hi tech huh
Failing that - take it apart. You can't be any worse off and a half hour of shining up the innards may get you going again. Long shot but worth it. You will find that the o-rings expand like crazy when you take them off. Immediately get all excess gas off them. You will probably have to bake them to get them back down to a size where you can re-install them. I have not found a source for new rubber.
Steve,
Thanks for the hammer tip. IT WORKED!!
Posted by: toon1 Aug 17 2007, 03:06 PM
try a WTB in the classifieds - something may pop up. You see them occasionally on ebay but they carry a hefty price. Last I looked both AA and pelican sold rebuilts but even they may now be NLA. Same size for all engines. 3 port for the early pump that was located in the rear of the car. 2 port for the later ones mounted in the front trunk
Worst case scenario is going to an aftermarket pump - they can be had in the $150 range.
caveate on the next thought - it did not work for me! but...
These pumps are really robust electrically. The normal failures are from aging rubber - o-rings and a nipple on the pop off valve (yours is a three port pump right?) It may be possible that when you ran out of gas the pump heated up (gas actually cools it) and caused the normal varnish crap to weld up a bit. These pumps don't have a lot of starting torque so it doesn't take much to stall them. You may be able to salvage the pump.
step one: with power applied give it a few taps with a hammer. Hi tech huh
Failing that - take it apart. You can't be any worse off and a half hour of shining up the innards may get you going again. Long shot but worth it. You will find that the o-rings expand like crazy when you take them off. Immediately get all excess gas off them. You will probably have to bake them to get them back down to a size where you can re-install them. I have not found a source for new rubber.
Steve,
Thanks for the hammer tip. IT WORKED!!
I would be leary of using that pump, hitting it may have free'd it up but, it being frozen means threre is somthing else wrong
Posted by: swl Aug 17 2007, 04:21 PM
It is probably just varnish but the bearings could be getting a little loose. You are running now but maybe try to source another working pump. When it arrives swap it out and then take apart and clean the original.
don't run out of gas again! 
Carry a hammer.
Check the strainer in the bottom of your tank and also your filter.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)