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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 1973 Irish Green 2.0... Edit: "The Outed" Green Teen...
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 22 2007, 04:52 PM
Road Scholars has this 73 2.0 up for sale on their site...
http://www.theaircooledguys.com/Inventory/tabid/54/ViewCar/61/Default.aspx
Supposedly only 3,700 original miles...
And who can spot the first three "Idiosyncrasies" of this supposedly "New" 2.0???
There are probably more, but I stopped counting after three very obvious ones...
So, if you have seen this one in person, tell us what you think...
"Fake or Real Deal"???
Posted by: Ferg Aug 22 2007, 05:04 PM
I think that's Zambezi green, Irish ended in 72 IIRC
on the car either way. If you do go see, I'd love to hear about it.
Ferg
Posted by: swl Aug 22 2007, 05:14 PM
holy shit. I don't think I've ever seen anything that clean!
Nobody could do a restoration like that to fake it. Well - not without doing things like replacing the wiring harness, re-plating everything ...
Call me gullable but I would say that's the real deal. If it isn't then I don't want to know!
I didn't see a price. 'If you have to ask you can't afford it!'
As to the trivia game ...
I've only seen 1.7s so I'm at a disadvantage. The only 3 things that I think are odd are:
extra power pickup from the battery for something non-stock.
Speakers are bodged in - looks exactly the way I did it back in the day right down to the tape.
I've never seen a white gas lid.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 22 2007, 05:18 PM
Sorry to say that that is our old 1974 914 1.8 that we totally made like new with all new parts able to be ordered from Porsche back then. We started with a pristine 68,000 mile mostly original paint car (except for the hood and cowl) installed by old girlfriend Mary's great running 2.0 engine after painting the sheetmetal and cleaning it up, and then added all of the 2.0 "goodies" including five brand new fuchs alloys and new chrome bumpers, AND new instruments including new speedo at zero miles (that is where they get the 3000 miles was driven little after we did our job on it!) Anyone who knows 914s can see that this is far from being an original car and the dead giveaway is the stud in the right front of the rear trunk to hold the charcoal cannister!!!!!! We entered this car in many concours competitions and always won, but NEVER represented the car as an original 2.0! We sold this car finally about five? years ago and have not seen it since. So here it is again. CERTAINLY not three thousand miles!
Posted by: swl Aug 22 2007, 05:21 PM
I said I didn't want to know!
oh - add to the trivia - bosch blue coil
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 22 2007, 05:35 PM
and no we did not butch in the speakers but did install the bosch blue and actually had a monterey cassette in the dash that was later taken out! Look closely at the sticker above the relay board and one can see that it is a 1.8 originally installed engine. anyway how much did they want for it????
Posted by: Ferg Aug 22 2007, 05:37 PM
I called, no call back yet...
Ferg
Posted by: swl Aug 22 2007, 05:41 PM
Well - like cubic zirconia - it is a beautiful fake. Nice work George.
Posted by: orthobiz Aug 22 2007, 05:46 PM
It's outrageous that this car is misrepresented with respect to mileage and originality. With this forum as active as it is, seller beware! The 914world gonna ferret you out and make you tell the truth!
Paul
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 22 2007, 05:52 PM
Well - like cubic zirconia - it is a beautiful fake. Nice work George.
THANK YOU! Bill Blymiller purchased that car new here at taurus porsche audi. It sat on our lot for almost a year back in the late eighties, a totally stripped zambezi green 1.8 with black bumpers and tan interior, NO one wanted it for 4500.00 because of the color (imagine that back then!!!!) Anyway we took it under our wing and decided to see if we could buy EVERYTHING new to make it into a highly optioned 914 2.0, just to see what someone would have to spend to make a concours winner. We were even able to buy an complete new interior and every piece of carpet! (granted the car back then was nice with only 68 thou but we wanted to make it extraordinary)
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 22 2007, 05:54 PM
It's outrageous that this car is misrepresented with respect to mileage and originality. With this forum as active as it is, seller beware! The 914world gonna ferret you out and make you tell the truth!
Paul
Paul really, any of us old 914 guys can spot that car as a total fake. Granted (if I do say so myself) nice but in no way original. It is really stupid for a company to actually THINK that that car has only 3500 miles as well. They HAVE to know better or it blows their whole representation of ANY Porsche they have for sale at their facility.
Posted by: orthobiz Aug 22 2007, 06:03 PM
It's outrageous that this car is misrepresented with respect to mileage and originality. With this forum as active as it is, seller beware! The 914world gonna ferret you out and make you tell the truth!
Paul
Paul really, any of us old 914 guys can spot that car as a total fake. Granted (if I do say so myself) nice but in no way original. It is really stupid for a company to actually THINK that that car has only 3500 miles as well. They HAVE to know better or it blows their whole representation of ANY Porsche they have for sale at their facility.
So George, you gonna tell them?
Paul
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 22 2007, 06:06 PM
We COULD play "name that flaw" in this 3500 mile 7.....3? 914!!!!!!
It's outrageous that this car is misrepresented with respect to mileage and originality. With this forum as active as it is, seller beware! The 914world gonna ferret you out and make you tell the truth!
Paul
Paul really, any of us old 914 guys can spot that car as a total fake. Granted (if I do say so myself) nice but in no way original. It is really stupid for a company to actually THINK that that car has only 3500 miles as well. They HAVE to know better or it blows their whole representation of ANY Porsche they have for sale at their facility.
So George, you gonna tell them?
Paul
Posted by: swl Aug 22 2007, 06:58 PM
Gotta disagree with you there George. I doubt that there are more than a handful of people that have seen enough different 914's to spot one bolt that gives it away as an engine transplant. The only visual clue that I know of between a 73 and a 74 is the bumpers and with the replacement we couldn't pick up on that either.
What's up with that 'VIN' - is that a chassis number.
edit: I was going to suggest that event the dealer could have been fooled by this car but I guess if he looked at the vin or the title he would know. Might not be able to spot the engine swap though.
Posted by: levonfarra Aug 22 2007, 07:04 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
Posted by: swl Aug 22 2007, 07:10 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
well done sir! I had thought the black plastic ones were all replacements.
Posted by: jaminM3 Aug 22 2007, 07:20 PM
They have a lot of pictures and the stamped VIN on the fender has 47429... They have to know that this isn't right. They put the chassis number as the VIN and even that they put a 1 instead of a 0. They have a picture of that stamping too. 
Posted by: 914rrr Aug 22 2007, 08:55 PM
Ok, I have a plan.
I buy the car, have the FBI procecute them for internet fraud (free of charge, of course), they lose, pay me back the purchase price AND I get to keep it!!!!! 
Seriously, though, why would they represent a car as a low mileage original with sooooo many things wrong, incorrect , etc. with it? Were the fan shroud and brain box painted? They could have at least bought/faked the proper colored vaccum hoses!
Posted by: swl Aug 23 2007, 06:23 AM
Like the politicians say - 'Plausible deniability'. This is a reseller. He didn't do the work and can say that he too was hoodwinked.
I agree that every thing in the engine bay looks brand new - how did you do that George? I've realized (as I was sandblasting my tin) that you can tell tin that has been tarted up. The original tin has white stencilled lettering in a couple of places. There is also an aluminized label that gives the timing details. Photos don't show those areas but in person you could tell. I think there is also some stenciling on the fan shroud too isn't there?
Posted by: pfierb Aug 23 2007, 06:45 AM
I think that's Zambezi green, Irish ended in 72 IIRC
on the car either way. If you do go see, I'd love to hear about it.Ferg
That isn't Zambezi green much to bright...My 73 is Zambezi green and it is a much darker shade of green.
Posted by: Ferg Aug 23 2007, 09:02 AM
George will know, but that's zambezi, hard for photo's to come out right.
Ferg
ps, still no call back on asking price... 
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 09:17 AM
Ok, I have a plan.
I buy the car, have the FBI procecute them for internet fraud (free of charge, of course), they lose, pay me back the purchase price AND I get to keep it!!!!!
Seriously, though, why would they represent a car as a low mileage original with sooooo many things wrong, incorrect , etc. with it? Were the fan shroud and brain box painted? They could have at least bought/faked the proper colored vaccum hoses!
you are good! We painted the shroud back then because we had no one to cad a metal piece that large. If we had the car back we could these days do a lot more to make it more perfect. Have them read the label above the relay board. It will clearly say that the original engine was a 1.8
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 09:20 AM
I think that's Zambezi green, Irish ended in 72 IIRC
on the car either way. If you do go see, I'd love to hear about it.Ferg
That isn't Zambezi green much to bright...My 73 is Zambezi green and it is a much darker shade of green.
The car did have all of the original paint except for one fender the hood and the cowl. Something scratched them years ago and broke the windshield and WE repainted them. All of the engine sheetmetal was painted and of course we have new valve adjustment stickers for the tin. As previously commented the vacuum lines are not the right colors and that is because the proper colors are no longer available.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 09:22 AM
Gotta disagree with you there George. I doubt that there are more than a handful of people that have seen enough different 914's to spot one bolt that gives it away as an engine transplant. The only visual clue that I know of between a 73 and a 74 is the bumpers and with the replacement we couldn't pick up on that either.
What's up with that 'VIN' - is that a chassis number.
edit: I was going to suggest that event the dealer could have been fooled by this car but I guess if he looked at the vin or the title he would know. Might not be able to spot the engine swap though.
I was just thinking that from my observance of all of the comments on this site that there are some real experts here when it comes to spotting a fraud, I dare say at least as good as I am! (no kudos here for me just 33 years of looking at them every day!!!!!!!!!!!)
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 09:25 AM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 09:41 AM
He, He!!!
I love you guys! Another Myth Is BUSTED!!! 3,700 miles, My A**!!!
I stopped looking for "falsification clues" after I picked out the screwed up Serial Number, Speakers, the Blue Coil, and the incorrect Vacuum Lines...
George got me on the Charcoal cannister stud... Good One!
I just can't believe these Sellers would dump their reputation trying to sell a faked up 914!!! They have some decent Porsches on their lot, and now I wouldn't touch any of them for fear that they are "tarted up" to say the least!
And the real humdinger is that they claim to know Porsches, and conveniently hid all of the true 'telltales" ( the door jamb VIN Sticker, the Passenger fender tag, the 1.8 engine sticker, etc, etc) from the photos... Yes, I think there is a very good chance you could buy the car, and sue for gross and deliberate misrepresentation of the vehicle, especially if you paid them and had them ship the car to you! Of course, NC law may be iffy on such a situation... lets hear from our Legal Beagles out there! Who wants to try getting a free 914??? 
Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 23 2007, 09:41 AM
could be the picture but i don't think that is L60E. maybe willow? i've got a white 72' that was originally irish green. i've seen a number of L60E cars painted white, red, BLACK (wtf). irish green is one of my fav colors on a 914. with nice chrome bumpers and bright trim it's stunning.
what a stupid ad. no price.
k
Posted by: Ferg Aug 23 2007, 09:50 AM
George, what color is it 
I have no doubt it's Zambezi, but clear it up for us.
http://homepage.mac.com/markd/914/colors.html
And let's not jump all over the seller yet. They could be totally in the dark. It could be a recent trade in, and to a Porsche guy, (not specifically a 914 guy) it's not THAT obvious that the car is a dupe.
Let's wait and see if they correct the ad, if they don't THEN let's jump all over them 
Ferg
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 10:00 AM
Ummmm... I think most any dealer that claims to know Porsches, would be able to decipher the door jamb VIN Sticker, and see that this is a 1974 914, which the sellers conveniently left out of the photos... Unless someone conveniently "Peeled" that sticker and maybe switched in one of the newer ones??? But in any case, the actual VIN tag should not have changed... or did it?
Nope, I think we got ourselves a Genuine, bonafied "Ringer" here!!!
And, unfortunately, there are some folks out there that would not have a clue as to the details, and would be most disappointed when the took their VERY expensive beauty to a Porsche show and got greatly embarrassed!
Posted by: boxstr Aug 23 2007, 10:14 AM
Curious, most sellers of a 3700 mile car would have a pic of the speedo, showing the odometer display of the miles?? I don't see it.
Oh well.
CCL
Posted by: Ferg Aug 23 2007, 10:19 AM
playing devils advocate, but it could very easy say 12/73 or such on the door jamb sticker, and throw off the dealer.
Who knows what line of bull he got from the person he got the car from, or maybe it's there on consignment and he's just listing it with the info he was given... 
Still a nice car. I'd pay 10k for it
Ferg
Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 23 2007, 10:19 AM
seriously? ha!
k
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 10:19 AM
it is certainly Zambezi green the original factory paint was in great shape except for the parts we painted and there was a peck with a touched up chip just below the sail panel.
The point here about the seller is if he HONESTLY does not know that this car is obviously not a 3700 mile car, then how can we trust him to know anything about the other Porsches he is selling!!!! That would mean he is at least naive, and if so could never trust his descriptions (which in his naive mind are accurate!!) I always give one the benefit of the doubt, so we can assume that this guy just does not know Porsches at all.
George, what color is it
I have no doubt it's Zambezi, but clear it up for us.http://homepage.mac.com/markd/914/colors.html
And let's not jump all over the seller yet. They could be totally in the dark. It could be a recent trade in, and to a Porsche guy, (not specifically a 914 guy) it's not THAT obvious that the car is a dupe.
Let's wait and see if they correct the ad, if they don't THEN let's jump all over them
Ferg
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 10:22 AM
Curious, most sellers of a 3700 mile car would have a pic of the speedo, showing the odometer display of the miles?? I don't see it.
Oh well.
CCL
The three instruments we replaced with new and I am sure that he read the miles from the new instrument. I am still curious as to how much he wants for the car.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 10:28 AM
playing devils advocate, but it could very easy say 12/73 or such on the door jamb sticker, and throw off the dealer.
Who knows what line of bull he got from the person he got the car from, or maybe it's there on consignment and he's just listing it with the info he was given...
Still a nice car. I'd pay 10k for it
Ferg
I would even pay more. It WAS when we had it really a nice car. Too bad someone butched the speaker covers over those brand new factory grilles we bought and installed! Reminds me of the time somone took my concours tangerine (blood orange) 914-6 that they had just purchased from me for 35,000 (back in 1991) and cut the brand new factory LOOP rocker carpet that I had installed, to install a roll bar!!!!!!
Posted by: Ferg Aug 23 2007, 10:29 AM
George, any pics from when you had it and did the work?
I plan on calling again today, about price. I have a feeling it will be in the 20's 
If I do talk to someone, I'll nicely inform them of the errors, and direct them here to defend themselves.
Ferg
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 11:10 AM
Okay, I will take George's point (well made!) and assume that the seller is just naive about Porsches, and especially naive about 914's...
Until proven otherwise!
BUT, that said, we sure don't get any "Warm and Fuzzy's" from such a dealer!!!
Now, on to the next "Fun" item with this car! A Pool for guessing the current asking price!
Of course, once Ferg tips him off, the game changes, but I will place my money on $35,000.00, knowing that the seller is usually VERY proud of his Porsches!!!
Of course, once the jig is up, I would have to assume that the price will drop dramatically, and I would not be surprised to see the car pulled, and sent packing, prolly back to it's former owner, with legal papers attached!
But, for now, let's all toss our bids in the hat, and see who is closest...
And for the winner, dinner with George at the Buckhead restaurant of his choice!
Now we just have to figure out how to collect the pot! ;>))
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 11:43 AM
George, any pics from when you had it and did the work?
I plan on calling again today, about price. I have a feeling it will be in the 20's
If I do talk to someone, I'll nicely inform them of the errors, and direct them here to defend themselves.
Ferg
we have many pics of the car completed. They look fabulous of course with that green finish!
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 11:52 AM
excellent idea! BONES is my choice. Bourbon before, one of those 85 dollar steaks, and big cigars afterwards!
Okay, I will take George's point (well made!) and assume that the seller is just naive about Porsches, and especially naive about 914's...
Until proven otherwise!
BUT, that said, we sure don't get any "Warm and Fuzzy's" from such a dealer!!!
Now, on to the next "Fun" item with this car! A Pool for guessing the current asking price!
Of course, once Ferg tips him off, the game changes, but I will place my money on $35,000.00, knowing that the seller is usually VERY proud of his Porsches!!!
Of course, once the jig is up, I would have to assume that the price will drop dramatically, and I would not be surprised to see the car pulled, and sent packing, prolly back to it's former owner, with legal papers attached!
But, for now, let's all toss our bids in the hat, and see who is closest...
And for the winner, dinner with George at the Buckhead restaurant of his choice!
Now we just have to figure out how to collect the pot! ;>))
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 01:37 PM
Bones, it is! 
Geo. A. Dickel Special Reserve, Neat...
Porterhouse, Rare... w/ sauteed Vidalia's and Morel mushrooms
Baked Potato w/ Cavier and Sour Cream, Chives ...
Fresh Peach Cobbler w/ real whipped cream...
Cohiba's all around... (I suppose I will have to break into my stock for those!)
More Geo. A. Dickel (BTW, what was Geo. Dickel's Wife's first name??? Yes, it has something to do with the great State of Georgia...)
Oh, hell, I'll pay my own way! Let's see... if I fire up the SC right now, I can be sitting in Atlanta by... well, 10:30, but that's a bit late for Dinner...
Let's see who else chooses to venture a guess! ;>))
Posted by: Richard Casto Aug 23 2007, 03:05 PM
I work about 5 miles from the address they give. I have plans this evening at home, but I may do a drive by on the way home just to see what resides at that address.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 03:12 PM
Thanks Richard! We look forward to your scouting expedition!
But... you need to put in your guess as to the Asking Price b4 you chug over and buy the car from them!
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 23 2007, 04:13 PM
inquiring minds want to know! I called twice only to hear an answering machine
Posted by: smg914 Aug 23 2007, 04:54 PM
Marion Dickel,
All in all I have to say that I've seen this zambezi green 914 and it truly is a very nice car. At least it was 10 years ago when I last saw it. Actually the original owner was my boss when I lived in Atlanta.
I would be proud to own this car. How many concours, show quality, high dollor 356's are out there that do not have their original engine. George put so many NOS parts on this car that someone that doesn't know much about 914's could possibly believe it to be an extremely low milage car. The chrome was perfect, the interior was perfect, the fuchs were perfect, the factory exhaust and heater boxes were perfect and the paint condition was excellant.
Is this car worth as much as my all original, 22,000 mile Sahara Beige 914? No, not even close but in my opinion it is (or at least was) a car worth far more than any average or above average 914.
Posted by: greenie Aug 23 2007, 05:37 PM
Let's just say I have a some interest in the value of this car.
Greenie
Attached image(s)
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 06:23 PM
Actually, Geo. A. Dickel's wifes first name was Augusta...
And as Geo. Hussey has stated, the car, when it left his premises, WAS, and likely still IS, a collection of new and nearly new or very nice, used parts... a very, very nice collection at that!!!
The point being, that IS NOT how it is being advertised! It is being represented as a PERFECT 1973 914 2.0, with 3,700 ORIGINAL miles...
Which it is most certainly not... it is not a 1973, it is not, by birth, a 2.0 Liter, it does not have 3,700 original miles, and no matter how hard George tried, it is not a perfect specimen, simply because parts of the car have been repainted, and will eventually develop rust bubbles and other nastiness due to the fact that it has been "redone"...
Yes, 356's with incorrect engines are sold every day, and most of them are refinished, and they still bring decent money... BUT... put one up against them that has it's original engine, original paint (even with some "patina", and original provenance, and the price will immediately double or even triple!
And yes, the Zambezi Green car, above, certainly looks like a kissing cousin, except for the lack of "Tits", but if in fact it is a "Real" 1974 2.0, it is already worth far more, IMHO, than the car that provoked this thread!
Posted by: Pat Garvey Aug 23 2007, 07:07 PM
I told the guy off!
Someone had to do it!
Pat
Posted by: orthobiz Aug 23 2007, 07:31 PM
I told the guy off!
Someone had to do it!
Pat
So much for your week away from the site!
Paul
Posted by: swl Aug 23 2007, 07:51 PM
I told the guy off!
Someone had to do it!
Pat
and the response was ....?
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: swl Aug 23 2007, 07:59 PM
I would be proud to own this car. How many concours, show quality, high dollor 356's are out there that do not have their original engine. George put so many NOS parts on this car that someone that doesn't know much about 914's could possibly believe it to be an extremely low milage car. The chrome was perfect, the interior was perfect, the fuchs were perfect, the factory exhaust and heater boxes were perfect and the paint condition was excellant.
So now that we have rapiered the vendor...
If you had received the full information:
less than 70k miles
2 liter transplant
73 model year
what would you pay for such a beautiful car.
Not what do you think it is worth but what would you pay.
I'm out cause it is way out of my financial league.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 08:01 PM
...Waiting with baited breath...
Never was quite sure what that mean't, but it seems appropriate here!
Posted by: swl Aug 23 2007, 08:09 PM
...Waiting with baited breath...
Never was quite sure what that mean't, but it seems appropriate here!
I love word/phrase origins
Posted by: hwgunner Aug 23 2007, 08:16 PM
I just coppied this stuff from their website. Seems like BS!
We stock only the highest quality cars with complete documentation. The majority of the vehicles in our inventory are stock, original, low-mileage, matching-numbers cars that would be competitive in local (if not national) car shows. We also appreciate the value of quality restorations and cars that have been "personalized" by their owners. Each car in our inventory has been given a thorough inspection by our METICULOUS mechanic. If we find something about the car that needs attention, we will either have it fixed before we offer it for sale, or provide you with an estimate of what it might cost to make it "perfect."
Pricing
Like you, we are appalled at the pricing and negotiating practices of typical car dealers. As a result, we don't pad our prices to experience the "thrill" of negotiating. We price our cars at what we believe to be their "fair market value." We will openly share our research with you, and provide you with the documentation that supports the price that we set.
Our Rating System
Concours
Rarely-driven show car, highly-detailed wheel wells, engine compartment and chassis, mechanically and cosmetically perfect, top 1% of that model nationally.
Exceptional
Extremely low miles, weekend car, highly-detailed exterior and interior, complete service records, cosmetically near-perfect, top 5% of that model nationally
Excellent
Driven less than 5K miles per year, highly-detailed exterior and interior, extensive documentation, cosmetically near-perfect, top 20% of that model nationally.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 23 2007, 08:25 PM
Works for me!
"terror, awe, extreme anticipation..."
Yeah, that's about right!
BTW, Orthobiz, I would pay three times more for your mint and ORIGINAL 1974 1.8 Liter than I would pay for this "refurbished" 1974 1.8 / 1973 2.0 Irish Green / Zambezi Green "concoction"...
Not that you are ever selling! Just making your day!
Call me a CW and be done with it, but provenance is everything on these older Porsches... Otherwise, lets just put VW 1600's in fiberglass and run around happy as a lark and call them Speedsters!!!
Posted by: Al Meredith Aug 23 2007, 08:50 PM
Hey Steve and George, My 1970 914-6 has on the "Karmann" plate the #23 . I was what my son Blake calls Blood Orange. Steve, your car is blood orange and you told me it was a #23. On the color chart that is linked to this thread there is no #23. Any comments???? Al
Posted by: Richard Casto Aug 23 2007, 08:50 PM
I work about 5 miles from the address they give. I have plans this evening at home, but I may do a drive by on the way home just to see what resides at that address.
Sorry for the late reply. I drove by on the way home. I didn't have time to stop. Sign on the front door said "by appointment only" anyhow. Couldn't see through front if any cars were stored inside. Looked to be more of an office vs. showroom. Interestingly enough there was a transporter parked beside the building. By the looks of the stickers on the trailer, it looked to have a World Challenge Viper inside.
I know everyone wants to roast whoever this is. I tend to want to give them a chance to update their info as they may not have been aware of the true details on the car.
Posted by: Jamie Aug 23 2007, 08:53 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
My all original 02/73 has metal sills!
Posted by: rhodyguy Aug 23 2007, 10:21 PM
so you have to call for an appointment to view, leave a message, and cool your heels until they return your call. the co policys are interesting.
k
Posted by: smg914 Aug 23 2007, 10:28 PM
Hey Steve and George, My 1970 914-6 has on the "Karmann" plate the #23 . I was what my son Blake calls Blood Orange. Steve, your car is blood orange and you told me it was a #23. On the color chart that is linked to this thread there is no #23. Any comments???? Al
Hello Al,
Tangerine L21E and Blood Orange 23 are the same color. I believe all 914-6's came with the number 23 or 023 on the door post and most if not all 914-4's came with the L21E code on the door post.
The certificate of authenticity for my 1970 914-6 shows: Paint Code 23 Tangerine (blood orange)
Posted by: tod914 Aug 23 2007, 10:38 PM
I flew down to Atlanta alittle over 5 years ago to look at that car, as being sold by a private party. It was represented as an original 2.0 at the time. But, after some research, I discovered it was originally a 1.8. I was looking for a concours level car at the time. That car has alot of nos parts that George put on, which are certianly worth some money and are very appealing. Such as the complete interior and fuchs. The body in my opinion was in good shape. Certanialy not concours level. There was pinkish acid stains on the rear trunk lid, surface rust under the whole undercarriage, and the respray that George refered to previously. One of the bumpers, the front I believe was showing signs of rust through the rechrome. Engine had plenty of punch to it, although the accelerator cable was sticking. I can go into greater detail if someone is seriously interested in the car. I decided against it for a variety of reasons. Can't comment on it's current condition. Can only comment on it from what I recall from seeing back then. I believe I still have coorespondence saved in my emails on that one. Be very curious as to what they are asking for it.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 24 2007, 09:40 AM
This just gets interestinger and interestinger !!!!
Posted by: por73914 Aug 24 2007, 09:47 AM
I flew down to Atlanta alittle over 5 years ago to look at that car, as being sold by a private party. It was represented as an original 2.0 at the time. But, after some research, I discovered it was originally a 1.8. I was looking for a concours level car at the time. That car has alot of nos parts that George put on, which are certianly worth some money and are very appealing. Such as the complete interior and fuchs. The body in my opinion was in good shape. Certanialy not concours level. There was pinkish acid stains on the rear trunk lid, surface rust under the whole undercarriage, and the respray that George refered to previously. One of the bumpers, the front I believe was showing signs of rust through the rechrome. Engine had plenty of punch to it, although the accelerator cable was sticking. I can go into greater detail if someone is seriously interested in the car. I decided against it for a variety of reasons. Can't comment on it's current condition. Can only comment on it from what I recall from seeing back then. I believe I still have coorespondence saved in my emails on that one. Be very curious as to what they are asking for it.
How much was it 5 years ago?
Posted by: faster48 Aug 24 2007, 10:10 AM
I was told $30K and someone already has a deposit on it. They are oblivious to the incorrect stats and, by my impression, unconcerned.
Hopefully the gentleman flying in to look at the car knows what to look for...
Posted by: pfierb Aug 24 2007, 10:10 AM
Such a ta do.... I really don't think there are too many that would kick that car out of bed.Sure is pretty looking.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 24 2007, 11:16 AM
"Oblivious" and "Unconcerned"...
Sounds like used car sales types to me!!!
Let The Buyer Beware!
We still have yet to hear from a Legal Eagle as to the issues of a dealer knowingly misrepresenting the car... what is their liablity? I know that in most states, if the dealer sells you a car showing 3.7K and it turns out to have over 70K, they are going to be giving you your money back!
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 24 2007, 11:51 AM
I flew down to Atlanta alittle over 5 years ago to look at that car, as being sold by a private party. It was represented as an original 2.0 at the time. But, after some research, I discovered it was originally a 1.8. I was looking for a concours level car at the time. That car has alot of nos parts that George put on, which are certianly worth some money and are very appealing. Such as the complete interior and fuchs. The body in my opinion was in good shape. Certanialy not concours level. There was pinkish acid stains on the rear trunk lid, surface rust under the whole undercarriage, and the respray that George refered to previously. One of the bumpers, the front I believe was showing signs of rust through the rechrome. Engine had plenty of punch to it, although the accelerator cable was sticking. I can go into greater detail if someone is seriously interested in the car. I decided against it for a variety of reasons. Can't comment on it's current condition. Can only comment on it from what I recall from seeing back then. I believe I still have coorespondence saved in my emails on that one. Be very curious as to what they are asking for it.
believe it or not that was a brand new factory bumper that we had installed on that car. I saw the flaw you are speaking of several years later after we sold it and was disappointed that the factory bumper did that. The under carriage is typical for a non undercoated southern car, some rust color throughout but not rot! That is par for the course on most of the even no mile 914s these days. It went to two owners after we sold it and they were obviously non Porsche concours enthusiasts, and did not give the car the attention it needed.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 24 2007, 12:02 PM
I told the guy off!
Someone had to do it!
Pat
and you are good at that!!!! (JUST KIDDING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)[size=7][indent][size=7]
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 24 2007, 12:07 PM
Hey Steve and George, My 1970 914-6 has on the "Karmann" plate the #23 . I was what my son Blake calls Blood Orange. Steve, your car is blood orange and you told me it was a #23. On the color chart that is linked to this thread there is no #23. Any comments???? Al
YES there is maybe 2310 same as 911 prefix color code. blood orange or tangerine. The factory painted many many sixes this color. Hey
Al when are you going to begin the restoration of your six?? If not there are many of us who would like to do your car!!!!!! (so to speak)
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 24 2007, 12:26 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
My all original 02/73 has metal sills!
wow wow later than I had seen!!! the 05/73 and 06/73 1973 models on the lot BOTH have the black. Soo the question is when the change exactly. Many Many of the changes were made to the 914s on calendar change dates, meaning Jan 1 of the following year.
Posted by: swl Aug 24 2007, 02:11 PM
same on my new 02/73 yellow one. Aluminum. They have been removed at some point but look consistent with rest of the car. No reason to suspect that they are replacements.
Posted by: orthobiz Aug 24 2007, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the compliment 73Phoenix20!!!
Paul
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 24 2007, 03:42 PM
He, He! Never claimed to be an English Language student!!!
Just a student of fine Porsches!
And you are welcome! Best original one we have seen so far!
Posted by: black73 Aug 24 2007, 04:30 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
My all original 02/73 has metal sills!
Yep, metal on my 2/73 also
Posted by: jaminM3 Aug 24 2007, 05:19 PM
This picture was on a Ebay listing last month that had claimed to be '73 original 2.0 and the manufacture date is 3/73.
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Posted by: jaminM3 Aug 24 2007, 05:25 PM
This car is 5/73
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Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 24 2007, 06:29 PM
...March 1973... Aluminum Sills...
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 25 2007, 10:46 AM
Just heard from Cam at the dealership, very nice guy, very concerned about listing the wrong info on the car. (It is indeed the same car we once had here) Chad said that he will post here and immediately correct the info. They wanted 35,000 for the car (which by any stretch is very high) but would now repost the car with the proper info and drop the price. For clarification, the car body and transmission has about 71,000 miles and Mary's 2.0 engine we installed, now has about 90,000 on it. (It was a factory rebuild put in the 1973 that she destroyed here in Atlanta back in 1985!, and at that time it had about 83,000 miles on it.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 25 2007, 11:34 AM
And We Have A Winnah!!!
$35,000.00... Amazing... pegged that one right on the money!
So for all of you folks that wanted into the Pool, just send $5.00 each to George, and I will be scheduling dinner with him for later this Fall!
Yep, Dickel Special Reserve, Porterhouse, Rare, Baked P, and fresh Peach Cobbler with real whipped cream!!! I can almost taste it!
Okay, second Pool is now open... How much will they have the balls to ask for the "outed" Green Teen???
Nope, I won't venture a guess on this one! It's all up to the rest of you!
Posted by: 914-8 Aug 25 2007, 12:34 PM
That's the problem with tampering with the mileage on a car.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 25 2007, 02:25 PM
Cam Just e mailed and said that they updated their website on the car: http://www.theaircooledguys.com/Inventory/tabid/54/ViewCar/61/Default.aspx
Still got it wrong though!
Posted by: pfierb Aug 25 2007, 03:01 PM
He is trying though.....You got to give him credit for that.
Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Aug 25 2007, 05:30 PM
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
Posted by: Ferg Aug 25 2007, 11:08 PM
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
I miss that car too
(I owned 73Phoenix2.0's Bahi Red 73.5 T as well) small world
Ferg
Posted by: carreraguy Aug 25 2007, 11:22 PM
Just saw this thread. The seller's have been in business for a quite a while and I am acquainted with one of their principals. They ony deal in high quality concours-level cars so I am more than inclined to give them the "benefit of the doubt" that they just didn't know 914's well enough. Next time I'm sure they'll be more careful; maybe they'll ask some of our experts?
Later,
Posted by: Midtowner Aug 25 2007, 11:33 PM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
My all original 02/73 has metal sills!
wow wow later than I had seen!!! the 05/73 and 06/73 1973 models on the lot BOTH have the black. Soo the question is when the change exactly. Many Many of the changes were made to the 914s on calendar change dates, meaning Jan 1 of the following year.
I can confirm that 06/73 had black sills or at least mine does.
Posted by: tod914 Aug 26 2007, 02:04 AM
The buyer payed $22,500 for it, from autoatlanta if memory serves me corectly. It was represented as a 33K milage 2.0. We agreed to $12,500 over the phone if the car was, as described. Needless to say it was not. The owner at the time, didn't know alot about 914's. It was purchased for his brother in law. At that time $12,500, was about par for an exceptional original condition, low milage 914.
Good to see they made some corrections on their website
Would be a beautiful car with an exterior respray. The pictures are decieving on the exterior paint. The trunks were immaculate, and so much eye candy with all those nos parts
Posted by: pfierb Aug 26 2007, 07:01 AM
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
Talk about missing a car ...Till the day I die I'll never stop kicking myself for selling,in 1974, my 1971 E-type Jaguar roadster for $4000 that I bought brand new in 1971 for $6000 tax included....God but I loved that car and still do ....To get in it and go for a ride was like getting into your own Spitfire to go chase off the Luftwaffe.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 26 2007, 11:00 AM
And I will NEVER sell my 1971 series ll Jag roadster white with blue. NEVER
By the way when we sold the green car years ago It was represented as 68,000 miles with a 73 2.0 engine with 83,000 on it and an immaculate concours entry car!!!!!! I think that we sold it for $19,500.
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
Talk about missing a car ...Till the day I die I'll never stop kicking myself for selling,in 1974, my 1971 E-type Jaguar roadster for $4000 that I bought brand new in 1971 for $6000 tax included....God but I loved that car and still do ....To get in it and go for a ride was like getting into your own Spitfire to go chase off the Luftwaffe.
Posted by: pfierb Aug 26 2007, 11:11 AM
And I will NEVER sell my 1971 series ll Jag roadster white with blue. NEVER
By the way when we sold the green car years ago It was represented as 68,000 miles with a 73 2.0 engine with 83,000 on it and an immaculate concours entry car!!!!!! I think that we sold it for $19,500.
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
Talk about missing a car ...Till the day I die I'll never stop kicking myself for selling,in 1974, my 1971 E-type Jaguar roadster for $4000 that I bought brand new in 1971 for $6000 tax included....God but I loved that car and still do ....To get in it and go for a ride was like getting into your own Spitfire to go chase off the Luftwaffe.
Silver with black leather ....one of the last 6 cylinder roadsters made...I still have the ign. key to it.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 26 2007, 01:57 PM
yes and mine too. What a car! Mine was made in october one of the last as well!
Certainly does in NO WAY drive as well as a 914, but beautiful to look at. Each night when I go home I lift the flannel car cover and wink at it before going in and making love to my wife!
And I will NEVER sell my 1971 series ll Jag roadster white with blue. NEVER
By the way when we sold the green car years ago It was represented as 68,000 miles with a 73 2.0 engine with 83,000 on it and an immaculate concours entry car!!!!!! I think that we sold it for $19,500.
Yes, indeed! We got his attention (or at least, George did!) and he is trying to restate things correctly...
Did you see some of the other "hardware" that he has for sale? Pretty impressive pedigrees! Just hope there is more accuracy to them than in the case of "Mean Green 914"...
but $67K for a 73 T just seems a bit over the top... of course, I'm still smarting for letting mine go for $12,500.00, and with only 11,000 original miles on it! Bahia Red, too! Oh, well, life goes on, and after all, that was 17 years ago!
Talk about missing a car ...Till the day I die I'll never stop kicking myself for selling,in 1974, my 1971 E-type Jaguar roadster for $4000 that I bought brand new in 1971 for $6000 tax included....God but I loved that car and still do ....To get in it and go for a ride was like getting into your own Spitfire to go chase off the Luftwaffe.
Silver with black leather ....one of the last 6 cylinder roadsters made...I still have the ign. key to it.
Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn Aug 26 2007, 02:47 PM
The XK-E, 'specially the Series 1, one car on my top 10 list
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Posted by: pfierb Aug 26 2007, 05:00 PM
Probably the most beautiful car ever sculpted !!!!
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 27 2007, 10:55 AM
The latest is that the car is now available for $18,000
Posted by: ConeDodger Aug 27 2007, 11:11 AM
George, I have to say... it is a credit to your work that a business such as Road Scholar would put their reputation on the line by representing a car as 3700 miles. They would not be fooled easily. That must be one nice car.
Posted by: xperu Aug 27 2007, 11:53 AM
73 had metal sills. 74 had black plastic.
good. But actually the jan 73 up cars had black plastic
My all original 02/73 has metal sills!
wow wow later than I had seen!!! the 05/73 and 06/73 1973 models on the lot BOTH have the black. Soo the question is when the change exactly. Many Many of the changes were made to the 914s on calendar change dates, meaning Jan 1 of the following year.
I can confirm that 06/73 had black sills or at least mine does.
My 08/73 Has Black Sills
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Aug 27 2007, 03:03 PM
George, I have to say... it is a credit to your work that a business such as Road Scholar would put their reputation on the line by representing a car as 3700 miles. They would not be fooled easily. That must be one nice car.
Thank you! As true enthusiasts here it is important to enter all of the concours competitions for fun and maybe to get a trophy or two! That green car eight years ago was steller. I told the road scholar guy that we would love to get it back and spend some time freshening it up.
Posted by: 914-8 Aug 27 2007, 06:56 PM
Now's the time to buy it back, it's on sale for half price!
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