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Posted by: Lawrence Dec 21 2003, 02:39 PM

Did I miss something?

Posted by: seanery Dec 21 2003, 02:41 PM

they have an off-topic board that from what I hear is really anti-american.

Posted by: Lawrence Dec 21 2003, 02:43 PM

That's almost enough to make me go back there, just to start a flame-war... and get kicked off. lol

Thanks, Sean.

-Rusty

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 21 2003, 05:09 PM

[RANT ON]

no, actually it's NOT anti american ...

there was 1 (ONE) post that was anti bush/war in iraq (which i don't consider anti-american at all).

i think Miles (redshift) is off his medication again.
it's a off-topic forum.
if you don't like to talk about off-topic stuff, simply don't go there.
if you still go there and you're offended by someones views/posts,
don't f***ing blame Pelican for it!

whatever happend to "freedom of speech"?
is that "republicans only" now?
everyone here seems to be able to tolerate pro bush/pro war posts.
according to the polls, that's only about half of the population of this country.

btw. i hate how you guys split everything in republicans/democrats.
this world is not black/white and neither are peoples believes and views about politics. there's much more to it than that.

[RANT OFF]

Andy

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 21 2003, 05:12 PM

We should have a special [RANT] [/RANT] font Andy.

I hate both parties.... but not much I can do about it.

Andy.. for the most part Republican people "speak" more than a conservative Democrat.

You will always hear more Republican than Democrat backing (so it seams)


B

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 21 2003, 05:24 PM

Thats cuz the Republicans are more closed minded and need to convert others to their narrow minded beliefs!

Geoff

Posted by: swood Dec 21 2003, 05:27 PM

I've edited my response several times now and have decided to give up. I don't really like either party in totality, but I also don't believe in being nuetral. I believe in absolutes, right and wrong and defending the former.

In the things that matter, there is really little difference with the two parties. I disagree with anyone that thinks government is "industry" and is somehow responsible to run the economy. That's what WE do. Joe american and business, large and small create the economy. A smaller and less intrusive government is good for this country. Individuals are by and large more benevolent and caring than the whiny liberals give us credit for.

Not much, but just a few thoughts.

Posted by: swood Dec 21 2003, 05:32 PM

Nothing wrong with being narrow minded. I believe in an absolute truth and nothing more, nothing less. There is no allowance for me to believe otherwise.

Posted by: stock93 Dec 21 2003, 05:33 PM

I still say theres something wrong with being able to make a full career out of being in politics. Maybe I'm mistaken, I thought the purpose was to serve your country and people not line your pockets as much as possible. I'm not saying they should starve, we have food stamps

John

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 21 2003, 05:44 PM

and not only just your pockets but also the pockets of your friends and the companies you have ownership in.

can you say "Halliburton" ???

and this is by no means a republican problem but rather a problem with politics in general.

i never belonged to a political party and i never will.
Andy

Posted by: Eddie Williams Dec 21 2003, 06:04 PM

I thought it was because most Democrats were illiterate from 40 years of liberal controlled Congress "dumbing down" public education to the least common denominator.

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 21 2003, 06:07 PM

see, we can have our own "mud wrestling" party ...
we don't need no pelican off topic board!

Posted by: stock93 Dec 21 2003, 06:07 PM

Just for clarity, that was aimed at politics in general, not one specific party. Somedays I look at our country, ok most days, and think our founding fathers would be very disappointed in how it has turned out so far.

John

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 21 2003, 06:37 PM

I don't know about the rest of the country, but Seattle is overun by Homeless People living under the Freeways.
The Republicans have controlled the congress and Senate for awhile, meaning what Bills gets passed. The money isn't flowing to help the poor and others unfortunate people.

The Rich get Richer.....


Geoff

Posted by: tmp914 Dec 21 2003, 06:45 PM

The US is based on a capitalist society so the rich should get richer, Im not "rich" but I am doing better all the time, depends how hard I want to work I guess. Should the rich get poorer?

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 21 2003, 06:47 PM

haha, that's a myth. no one ever got rich by working hard.

Andy

Posted by: Eddie Williams Dec 21 2003, 06:59 PM

There have always been and will always be homeless people. It has nothing to do with who is in the congress or the white house. Homelessness goes back to the ancient days. They just weren't identified by their politically correct titles.

And about getting rich, it depends on your definition of rich. You can better your lot in life and climb the social ladder, if thats what you choose to do. It's your choice. But, if you are judging being rich on the scale of Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, a little luck helps also.

Posted by: redshift Dec 21 2003, 08:53 PM

No man, fucking guy called me a racist for the term "Moslem Terrorists".

'Moslem' is not a race, and we aren't being attacked by Catholics. I am not a racist. That is more offensive to me than I can bear.

The schmuck there is a complete idiot, and I was told I was |____| that far from being banned, I thanked them for the time, and told them to delete my account, I won't be using it anymore, and I definately wouldn't buy a FUCKING thing from Pelican ever again.

The 'banter' is all based on shit, no facts, just 'anecdotal evidence', and a supreme knowledge of clouding issues.

I am a Libertarian, not the legalize drugs/anarchy kind, the leave me the fuck alone kind.

I choose where I purchase, I choose not to purchase there.

Don't tread on me.

Fuck Wayne, and his parts.

Miles 'Fucking' Hendrix

Posted by: tracks914 Dec 21 2003, 09:04 PM

Off topic a bit but I liked it. I heard a good one today...a new verb for the english language.
It's called being "Dixie Chicked".
Freedom of speech unless it is unpopular with the government of the day and a slim minority.

Posted by: redshift Dec 21 2003, 09:16 PM

It's all one guy from LA, and people from other countries slandering AMERICA, calling AMERICANS stupid, making jokes about AMERICA.... and they ask us for money, food, and help.

All the while, there is American blood splattered from pole-to-pole..

Gist of my post there:

I paid taxes to buy the red buttons. I'll pay for more if they'd make them. I don't play games, I don't have time, I live in a push button world. I wouldn't mind being a mushroom farmer, I like bright lights, and smoke.

My right to be pissed was bought and paid for with 3025 innocent people's lives... at work.

Oh Moslem terrorist.....



M

Posted by: ! Dec 21 2003, 09:53 PM

Well I guess a blow job and a warm shower at midnight is outta the question????

Posted by: redshift Dec 21 2003, 09:59 PM

Yep.



M

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 21 2003, 10:22 PM

Man.. I love you guy's. Everyone has a different view. This place would be BORING if everyone shared the same opinion.

I want everyone to know right now.. I dont care what "party" you belong to or what your "beliefs" are.

If you feel strongly about something... air it out. I air it out everyday (914's)


B

Posted by: Qarl Dec 21 2003, 10:23 PM

I want to go to the "party" where the girl in Zois' avatar is dancing!!!!!

Posted by: redshift Dec 21 2003, 10:38 PM

I am fully for freedom of speech, if we disagree, we are going around, and I always throw the second punch when it comes to slugging, and I hit harder.

No reason to fight if you don't intend on leaving a reason not to fight behind.


M

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 21 2003, 10:39 PM

Question:

Why is Alfred still on Rennlist ?? How is it that Dunk puts up with him ??


B

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 21 2003, 10:43 PM

hmmm.....he's a racist. and on pelican. go figure

Posted by: redshift Dec 21 2003, 10:49 PM

heh Irony is not lost on this young man.

WTG Aaron!


M

Posted by: GWN7 Dec 21 2003, 10:50 PM

Because he has never posted any of his "enlighting " views on life on either board, just here.

Weren't we lucky?

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 21 2003, 10:55 PM

yeah...i feel like a winner cuz i got to listen to his Arian race BS ..LOL

Posted by: seanery Dec 21 2003, 11:08 PM

Cops is on CourtTV right now and it's about a mile down the street
I'm so proud!

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 21 2003, 11:13 PM

HEH...i watched my white trash neighbor get arrested for beating his wife....

Posted by: jimtab Dec 21 2003, 11:16 PM

The republican party doesn't give a shit about public education because the two factions that run the modern republican party (the christian right and the wealthy) have their kids in private schools.

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 21 2003, 11:27 PM

and thats why we our losing our edge over other countries! They have better schools and their kids can get in them without being rich.

Geoff

Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 22 2003, 12:05 AM

He is awarded no points. And were all dumber for having read his words.

I'm a firm believer in working harder not smarter.

Seriously, I never told you guys this but. I was unable to join the armed forces. I had a major back operation when I was 17. Spent 10 months in a body cast. The draft had justed ended but I tried to enlist anyway. The recruiter told me "were looking for able bodied men her son." I guess The brain is a usless muscle when it comes to the selective service. As a result of not being able to join the military I was aced out of civil servent jobs, Small business loans opportunities, and countless other things. I think I would have kicked some ass for our country and did my part to propect all you people. So I appreciate the guys that stick there neck out. If someone wants to bad mouth our land of opportunity that's fine. As long as they do it with respect and realize if they were anywhere else talking trash they would be D-E-A-D.

Posted by: swood Dec 22 2003, 12:06 AM

THis one's for you M.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 12:11 AM

You guys on the Rep/Dem fight are playing the wrong game.

Partys will never make this country great, it's individuals, and personal sacrifice.

The government school system sucks, as does state sponsored welfare, and healthcare.

When they take $100, and spend $50 of it on collecting it, $30 on moving it, and $10 on a system to oversee the other $10... welp... there you go.I'd rather spend the $100 on the 'item'.

I am sure I have qualified for many government programs in the past, I never took advantage of any, I just worked_my_ass_off at whatever_I_had to work at.

You just don't need it all.

I don't have much of anything for a person that won't do for himself. I find most people in the 914 community to be 'do it' type people.. don't get me wrong... there is nothing wrong with getting a little help.. you have to do the work on your own though, to take pride, you have to have pride, the most valuable single thing a person can have... pride keeps you alive.

Crap Government Program: Case in Point; NASA (sorry Dave)

I am against the space program, almost in toto. To the Moon again? To Mars? What a waste. Giant space telescopes are a different story. Pile them on.

In 1000 years, the technolgy can change, and make those things a value for those generations, but not ours, sorry.

Just because half the population drives $50,000 SUVs doesn't mean we can afford all this crap.

Potato chips cost almost $4.00 a bag... is that a valuable food item for a family on welfare?

No

If the Govt. 'will pay' $5 for a pill, that is what they get charged, even if the pills were $1 to start with.

Just a couple things in my direction for you to consider, the money is all there.... OOPS! and now it's not.. right?


M

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 12:13 AM

lol

Now, if we could just have a friendly fire oopsy...


M

Posted by: Scott Carlberg Dec 22 2003, 01:09 AM

I think it's actually spelled this way.... Muslim

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 01:14 AM

Yeah, but it used to be spelled Moslem .

I like the way things used to be, don't you, INFIDEL!

HELLOOOOO INFIDELS!

heh

M

Posted by: Mockmaw Dec 22 2003, 03:17 AM

Resisting.. the.. temptation.. to.. argue.. back. No one ever wins these arguments, and I rarely see any good come out of them. I vehemently disagree with MANY of the statements presented in this thread, but I'm glad that all of us have the right and freedom to think what we want and say what we want.. even if it pisses each other off.

...My mix of San Diego and Berkeley politics would not go over well here, haha.

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Dec 22 2003, 04:23 AM

Well put Andy

Posted by: Steve Thacker Dec 22 2003, 07:25 AM

AMEN Red ! Staunch Libertarian here also.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 22 2003, 08:44 AM

until miles added his note re the ot forum i wasn't even aware of it. but no nasty words, oh no. so f,s,c,cs,mfing allowed. the thread with ot pictures was pretty funny. the anti george thread was deleted when i got there. wayne seems to be trying to open things up a bit. still that vendor issue . if folks can't seperate parts buying from politics (no offence miles) there is always aa. if you like expensive, stale, white bread. an ot rant livens things here up a bit. fuck it .

kevin/a nattering naybob of negativity
"by the way. the united states is a republic. not a democracy"

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 09:23 AM

I am totally for people speaking their mind... completely. How would we know to avoid if everyone was a liar?

The world could be a very boring place if it always worked out my way, safe, effcient, and fair... perfect..... but boring.

Just don't call me a racist to subvert the issue, it's not at all true. I bite...

please don't feed the animals.


M

Posted by: Queenie Dec 22 2003, 09:43 AM

They'd probably go over just fine with me, but I don't like to participate in these political threads. I usually try not to read them, because a lot of what I see just makes me heartsick.

Sir Andy summed it all up pretty perfectly for me anyhow ... thanks, Andy.

Posted by: fuch toy Dec 22 2003, 09:53 AM

Humor usually helps in threads such as these/those....if not, then the assume the poster is brain dead....

Posted by: ArtechnikA Dec 22 2003, 01:05 PM

it's not just "the" two parties. there are lots of choices. i'm a registered Libertarian. (in the broadest possible strokes, fiscal conservative and social liberal...)

"third" parties can make a BIG difference... more people in Florida in the last presidential election voted for Ralph Nader than the difference between the Bush/Gore totals ... but as important, it gives you an opportunity to identify with a particular position in good conscience ...

Posted by: jimtab Dec 22 2003, 02:11 PM

Yes, third parties can make a difference their support of the self-serving mr nader gave us Bush "light". Thanks a lot. You must be very proud.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 22 2003, 02:25 PM

I really enjoy spending time around Jim...LOL



B

Posted by: ArtechnikA Dec 22 2003, 02:26 PM

i'm personally no fan of Nader and what he (claims to) represent.

but there's really only two choices: you either allow on the ballot [all] those parties which have established constituencies, or you adopt the much-simpler method used in totalitarian societies, in which there is -one- "slate" of officials, and you merely vote 'yes' or 'no' ...

perhaps you are upset that more Floridians did not vote for Gore ? can't help you there ...

Posted by: jimtab Dec 22 2003, 02:34 PM

No, frankly I'm dissapointed that more people EVERYWHERE didn't vote, I wasn't all that impressed with Al either but if the bullshit in Florida had happened in a third world country we would have sent people to "certify the election" like we did in Haiti and Africa and I think in the Balkins...where ever
it looked like there might have been "irregularities". And while were on the subject, Bush spends like a Democrat at least, from the largest budget surplus to the largest budget deficit in 30 months, call Guiness.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 22 2003, 02:41 PM

I choose not to vote. He with the most money wins (advertising/campaign money) They are all full of shit and rarely do what they say they are going to do. Most of them are lawyers (nuf said).

I'm tired of feeding the homeless. I'm tired of going to the bank and watching a lady with 3 kids driving a new Caddilac Escalade deposit her welfare check. I feel there is NO right way to run any of this. Nobody will be happy.

I do consider the USA big business. I know that money makes things happen in Washington (always has..always will) I also know that in any big business.. the head honcho's hire their freinds to do jobs that they are not qualified for..why would somebody from big business change when they moved into politics ?

Money makes the world go round.. we seem to have a lot of it to throw around. How did we end up near the top ?? is it REALLY that damn bad here ?? I think not..or most of us would have moved elswhere.

Nobody on this BBS (or anyone I know of for that fact) will solve murder issues or crime issues (again.. you dont like it..Move)


Fun times..


B

Posted by: bongo monkey Dec 22 2003, 02:44 PM

Some of you preach open-mindedness and political diversity, then turn around and automatically decry Alfred and his Nazi politics. The Nazi Party is a legitimate political party, you know...

I'm going to leave it at that, because I really don't like flame wars. I just wanted to point that out.

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 22 2003, 02:48 PM

nah.. Andy is the one who banned him (the only tue German admin we have)

The problem with Alfred is: he pushes it on us in off topic crap (like when somebody asks a question about spark plug gap and he finds a way to tell us how many african americans their are in prison) Did we really need to know that in a thread with a title of "spark plug gap" ?? I think not.

I keep to myself. If Alfred tried that.. he wouldnt be banned. This is a 914 Forum (believe it or not).


B

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 22 2003, 02:50 PM

no longer. but you're right, they WERE a legit political party.
and the large majority of germans welcomed them with open arms ...
in the beginning at least.

what is your point?
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 22 2003, 02:53 PM

the real braking point for me was when he started to harass several board members (non-arian) with private hate-messages and hate-email ...

Andy

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 22 2003, 03:05 PM

highly inappropriate. would pose serious issues in my house. serious.

kevin

Posted by: Brad Roberts Dec 22 2003, 03:08 PM

Ahh yes. I forgot about that instance.

Alfred had a problem with using private messages to harrass none white females that frequent this BBS. Now Alfred is gone and the other member doesnt visit as often. Nobody wins.


B

Posted by: KaptKaos Dec 22 2003, 03:12 PM

I submit to you that neither party really cares about education. The NEA (teacher's union) is one of the largest unions in the country. Their members vote consistantly for Democrats and have for many years. This union brings home the bacon for the Democratic Party. This union has fought attempts to implement accountability into the ranks of teaching. There are little to no metrics to determine if a teacher should stay or be fired. Teachers are genereally only fired for code of conduction violations (read: sex with students, drug use, etc.). Teachers have a system that provides them with tenure, much like the college/university system. In other words, unless you screw up, you can be a teacher forever. The NEA has fought voucher programs everywhere they have been presented. They have fought them with scare tactics typical of a monopoly. Things like "it will destroy the public schools" or "what about the kids that get left behind?" They do not want competition into their ranks because then they may have to produce quantifiable results. This issue is particularly hard-hitting in the minority communities, where schools are war zones. Vouchers might allow kids a chance to get out and get a good education, so that they can strive to meet their goals. Instead, the NEA works very hard to block voucher programs and initiatives wherever they can. This is racist in my opinion.

Conservatives do put their kids in private or parochial schools. Sometimes this is at great personal sacrifice (i.e. cost) to help ensure a good education for their kids. As a result, they are less concerned about public schools. No doubt, but that is a generalization and there are many in the Republican Party that are worried about public education and what it means to our society and economy in the future.

Last point, please do not forget that both Bill Clinton's and Al Gore's kids went to private schools while they were in office. I point this out to make sure that the broad brush you have painted this issue with (and to a degree, I agree in your analysis) does not make it seem as if only Republicans send their kids to private schools.

Ok, I feel better now.

Merry Christmas everyone! (If you don't celebrate Christmas, please take my statement with the intent that it implies; I wish you a happy spiritual rebirth, to whatever Diety you pray to).

Peace Out.

- Joe

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 22 2003, 03:24 PM

joe, my wife is teacher in a private school. you're right about the family's who bite the bullet to put their kids through them. i would disgree with " less concerned", they send their children because they are. for the record i'm anti voucher

Posted by: Hawktel Dec 22 2003, 03:46 PM

Politics.

I just vote for the guy who looks like he will do the least damage anymore.

I like being a American.

Sure, we have done some horrible things. Lucky for us we've done alot more good than bad. Its tough being cool, and the best, but we do what we can.


Redshift, I know you have some really strong views on the Moslem subject. I think though that your using poor lauguage, and its confusing the people your screaming obsenities at. I recommend that you don't use Moslem anymore. Stick with Islamist Fundamentalist. Also, what do you care if some person calls you names? The fact is, your never going to be able to make people appreciate what they have. Thats lifes job. You got to trust in Karma man. I'm certain that the guy who angered you will get some at some point. Until then its better to let him live in his ignorance, while you move on, enjoying your car, and thinking happy thoughts.

And you know the Birdmen have a different kinda house than this one. You got to let them run their house their way. If you have to "vote" with your pocketbook over this point, I can understand that. But, I will still be shopping there.

I'm done.

Posted by: bongo monkey Dec 22 2003, 03:55 PM

Well, if Alfred was harrassing people, then he's probably just an attention-seeking kid, who just does this shit to piss people off. It was a good move to ban him, then.

Posted by: URY914 Dec 22 2003, 04:07 PM

Andy,
That was a pretty decent discription of the public school system. The teacher's union is really in control. We transfered my daughter (2nd grade) to private school this year. Public school was a joke. Yes, it now costs more but she's learning to read.

Paul

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 22 2003, 05:57 PM

wasn't me.

dunno much about the school system here ...
Andy

Posted by: Lawrence Dec 22 2003, 06:14 PM

Uhhhh, I was just curious about the "boycott".

-Rusty

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 06:25 PM

I went to private schools all my life, save first grad, and 4 months one grade.. hmm... 7th.

I went to UGA for a year, then dumped to head to California to becoame a drug addicted music major. I have lived at most levels, I have lived with almost everyone, every walk of life.. people are very selfish, all people.

Everyone wants something, and noone deserves anything the didn't appreciate enough to get themselves.... hey, I have been a skid row case, I know what sucks, it's me, it's my fault.

I am a self-recovered alchy, and a 1/4oz a day coke head. Yep. I stared into a toilet, and in a blink, I changed my life.

I grew, many never do. I base my happy life on personal responsibility, how can you not?

It's wrong to take things from people that don't belong to you, even if mandated by Congress. That is evil, and shameful... in my mind.

I saved myself, and I'll say right here, I don't have patience for losers like me, who refuse to make their own light, and I bought the right to say that by walking with fire.

When you are fucked up, and all alone, you get time to think about yourself. When we want something that isn't ours, It's our own damned faults.

Blame politics all you want, it's not politics, it's an enstilled class war, starts in the middle, and goes both ways.... most of all you see is a fraud of some type, personal agenda, and how can we make you feel remorse for your evil success, Cat A, thru Cat Z.. peckB peckC peckD peckE...


M

Posted by: Aaron Cox Dec 22 2003, 06:53 PM

preach it brother miles! LOL....

Posted by: URY914 Dec 22 2003, 07:00 PM

Sorry Andy,
It was KaptKaos.

Paul

Posted by: URY914 Dec 22 2003, 07:02 PM

Go Miles, get it out...
Let the demons out, Brother!!

Paul

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 22 2003, 08:42 PM

Maybe Miles should run for office somewhere.......

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 09:12 PM

If nominated, I will not run, elected, I will not serve.... besides, I have a 1st degree murder conviction.


M

Posted by: redshift Dec 22 2003, 09:33 PM

Come on fellas, I was kidding about not running for office!



Where the heck is the sense of humor around here?


M

Posted by: ArtechnikA Dec 22 2003, 09:37 PM

as long as you have the courage of your convictions ...

oh - the humour ? that's cross-posted in a link to another site ...

Posted by: swood Dec 22 2003, 10:28 PM

M, do you listen to the Sage's radio show out there?

Get on the ballot boy!!!

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Dec 22 2003, 11:23 PM

I think the root of this thread is Miles being upset for being called a racist. Well I don’t really know you, so I couldn’t say, but I would not make that judgment from what you have posted here.

I guess the only point I want to make here is that it is a similar crime (to racism) to group terrorist as Moslem. They certainly don’t have a corner on the market, yes many of the recent (and historical) acts of treachery have been carried out by people claiming to be Moslems, but I would not judge the entire religion on those few. If you need an example look no further than Oklahoma. Yes sir re bob, we have our own homegrown American terrorist.

This country has no greater threat than division. It is the automatic division into sub groups that has always (and continues to) cause discord. Look at Ireland, and Jerusalem if you need proof. Hell most of the regular people want the killing to stop, but the few persist in making the divisions, looking for some one to blame (other than themselves). We cannot allow our selves to fall into this trap. We must judge every man (and woman Queenie ) buy there actions not who they look like.

So, Miles the next time you are mad at terrorist lets be a little more liberal and condemn the whole lot, not just the Moslem ones.

-Pete

Posted by: redshift Dec 23 2003, 12:23 AM

Ahh Got ya buddy... context.. it was pure context, I'm sorry the thread is removed.

I looked on my own free will, and I was completely offended by the spewage, so I balanced it with a single post that was a barn burner.

It's all about context, you had to be there. It wasn't a thread about nutcase extremists, it was about shitty USA, and all the bad things we have brought to mankind, how all of our leaders are totally crap, stupid, dumbassed, moronic, shit swagling butt humpers, and how all the American people are dumb fucking sheep.

I don't consider you to be dumb, so I just pointed out that they were walking over the line, and answered their pleas to be slapped.

My fondest memories are ones shared with WWII veterans, I have several friends that are recognized heroes in the fight against Worldwide tyrrany. Someone has to stand up to the noise.

You don't have to agree with me, but if you read all this from begining to end.. I think you will see my intent. I don't start vapid threads of disgust.

I love my country, we are a family, it's the team... sometimes the team swings my way, other times not, but I won't stand by while some other team attacks mine, unanswered... I would die to protect innocent people, and I think that's ok, you don't have to agree, just try to understand?

If it were not for America, many of the people who bitch the loudest would be lamp shades in a German tavern. You can't please the greedy.. as they ride the backs of the bruised.

3025 people died, payback is an unpleasant bitch. I saw it all happen, it's not a lie, and it's worth scouring this world to find the very last of the rats. Without that, we'd all be just normal folks, tinkering with cars, and working at making a life for our families.

Many brave men have given their lives in this cause, I will not allow them to be dishonored, this is a just battle, civilization, and our way of life are in the balance.

And now, I am done.

Thanks for listening, and if you are a disagreeable American, that's ok, I am here to stand up for you as well...

Just dont tread on me.


Miles

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 23 2003, 12:49 AM

now does that imply that "disagreeable Americans" don't stand up for each other and their fellow americans?

or is it just me reading too much "inbetween lines" ...
Andy

Posted by: Mockmaw Dec 23 2003, 03:56 PM

I like how this thread has turned into a general forum for political commentary. Alright, I'll bite (or comment on a few things that I've read)..

Redshift: The use of the term "Moslem Terrorist" is not racist, but terribly inappropriate for very specific historical and cultural reasons. I can back this up, let me know if you care for me to explain.

Hawktel: For that matter, the term "Moslem Fundamentalist" is also an inappropriate term, since the words Fundamentalist and Fundamentalism come from a very specific _Protestant_ history that American/European's are familiar with; because of this, it's easy for us to tack on the word Fundamentalist. Since the Islamic religion, Muslim society, and Middle Eastern politics have not branched from "our" Protestant history, it's inapproprite and incorrect to use a Protestant word to identify Islamic people. I can explain more if you care to hear.

Brad: Do you recognize the fact that your choice to not vote essentially gives you no reason whatsoever to bitch? Funded by money or not, the politicians in this country are still elected through votes. Dollars may pay for votes, but those politicians still need people to enter the actual booth and punch the actual card. By not voting, you've, in a way, endorsed every politician and given every one that's in office their seat. Our government system functions on the idea that one person can't make a difference whatsoever, but the collective people can.. the system was designed from the very beginning to function like this. Your decision to not vote, like so many others in the country, is what makes the system not work like we want it to.

Alfred was a dick.. there's a difference between free-speech and harassment. He crossed the line, he's not with us. That's all I have to say.

On third parties: unfortunately, third-parties screw everything up in our system. Because of the way that we hold elections, third parties will always take votes away from the two candidates who are most alike.. in the last election, Nader took many votes away from Gore but very few from Bush. Bush won the election, but the overall popular sentiment across the country leaned a lot more to the left. A competitive third party candidate will always take votes away from the Republicans if conservative, or the Democrats if liberal. Makes you wonder why one of the two major parties doesn't fund a third party candidate that will take votes away from the opposing major party, haha. Now France has got it right in my opinion. They hold two major elections.. the first one is amongst all of the candidates, here the citizens can vote for anyone that they'd like (their ideological choice, if you will).. the top two candidates then have a 'runoff' final election (this is where the citizens can make their 'practical' choice). I don't like how our political system, with two major parties which ultimately run two very moderate candidates, almost force people to make the decision about 'the lesser of two evils', not their true ideological preference.

KaptKaos: I am vehemently opposed to vouchers, but don't have the energy to fight the good fight on that one..

And finally Red: if the boys over at PP actually cut a thread post that was anti-American/anti-Bush, I'll be more than happy to join your boycott.

Posted by: Eddie Williams Dec 23 2003, 05:37 PM

I'm a conservative Libertarian. I also am anti voucher. I feel public education is broke, we've been dumbing down the electorate for years, it's a power ploy by liberal Democrats. A well informed electorate is also a big part of how our system works. It's a reason for the 1st ammendment and public education. If a large portion doesn't understand how it is really supposed to work, then they are more likely to vote to for the party that promises them more entitlements. We've been pouring money into a public education system that is broke, competition may help make it better, but taking money away from it won't. It is our civic duty to pay the taxes to help inform the electorate. We've done our part, however the NEA is not doing their part. I think a compromise is to let a tax payer that chooses to send their kid to a private school of their choice should be allowed to write that tuition off of AGI. Not a total funding of thier education, but an incentive.


I'm interested to hear why the term "Moslem Terrorist" is inappropriate. France may have a system that works for them, but if we were to elect the president based purely on popular vote, New York, Chicago and LA would elect our every president, and "middle America" would lose representation. I know the popular vote did lean slightly toward Gore overall, but the fact that Bush carried way more precincts is why he won. The controversies started because the press called the state too early based on crap exit polls. If they would just have shut the fuck up, the next morning, Bush still would have won by a slim margin. But the history books will show this was a minor blip in constitutional history, no one reads an asterik next to Kenedy's name, he won in close election with a voting scandle as well. But Nixon was gracious in defeat, not like Mr. Gore.

Posted by: Hawktel Dec 23 2003, 07:07 PM

Not to worry Mocknaw, I used Islamist Fundamentalist, not Moslem Fundamentalist. To my knowledge, a Moslem refers to a person who is active in the Islamic faith. I seem to remember the term to be like one who surrenders to god. I have no problem or issue with those people. An Islamist is a person who is following a strict interpetation Islam I believe. In our currect times, I think everyone understands a Islamist to be a person who is using a set of islam principles they have chosen. And for Fundamentalist.... Check definition 2, not definition 1.




When I say a Islamist Fundamentalist, I specificly mean a person who is using a portion of the islamic religion to interpeted to support their idea's and actions. Specficly in reguard to not liking Americans, mostly due to the support of Israel.


To quote a bumpersticker I have, "I don't mind God, but his Fan Clubs are killing me"

Edited it cause my quotes got outa hand!

Posted by: ! Dec 23 2003, 07:18 PM

OK let's toss in the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, Columbus and his rape of the NEw World, they got him back....they sent home Gonorehea but his crew passed on Syphillis, measles, mumps etc.....hell is Bosnia they are still fighting a war of retribution and paynack that that started in the years when Islam controlled Southern Europe, all of the Mediteranean and Northern Africa.....

There are assholes in every generation, every socio econimic strata and social situation. Throw religion in the mix along with politics and the shit hits the fan.....

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 23 2003, 09:31 PM

Nah, you got it all wrong for Eastern Europe Zois. All the Muslims went to Albania when they divided up the old Turkish Empire. The Croats and Serbs are still fighting from when the Croats sided with the Nazis in WW2 to get rid of the Serbs.
Albania wasn't a big enough place for all the Moslem Albanians (big families) so they took over parts of Bosnia and other parts of Serbia. They live in the towns and cities while the Serbs and Croats farmed the land they owned. Now the UN has given them the farm land away from the Serbs and Croats.
This didn't work the first time the British did it in 1919 after WW1!

I got a few relatives still over there....When they stop killing each other.

Geoff

Posted by: drew365 Dec 23 2003, 10:46 PM

Opinions are not facts just because they've been repeated!

Posted by: drew365 Dec 23 2003, 10:50 PM

I see Harry didn't last long. And we didn't even find out what year teener he had.

Posted by: seanery Dec 23 2003, 10:50 PM

nope.

Posted by: redshift Dec 23 2003, 10:54 PM

When I found out what he said in those deleted posts, I decided to bird dog him

I am scanning his ip this instant.


M

Posted by: ! Dec 23 2003, 11:26 PM

Revisionist History....where you there?

Posted by: Bleyseng Dec 23 2003, 11:50 PM

Hey, I thought you were Greek!

Gonna finally try to go over there next year maybe Split or Dubrunik to be on the beach.

Geoff

Posted by: Eddie Williams Dec 24 2003, 03:35 AM

As far as your tagline Geoff if it weren't Bush/Cheney making the world safe for Haliburton it would be Gore/Liberman making the world safe for Armand Hammer and Occidental... you win some you lose some... I'm an American and a Texan not a Communist.

Posted by: redshift Dec 24 2003, 09:45 AM

Eddie, come on man.. we can laugh at that.

We can also laugh at John Kerry, for hocking his house, so he can continue his run for loser!

"I ran for President on unsecured credit cards, just like the National Budget!!!"




M

Posted by: fuch toy Dec 24 2003, 10:15 AM

Greek Grandpappy with a lot of drunk Irishman and belligererent Germans mixed in.... I know that's redundant, but I just consider myself an American with a funny last name and wierd taste in cars.

Posted by: SirAndy Dec 24 2003, 01:25 PM

you forgot the smilie after that line.

Andy