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Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 1 2007, 10:28 PM

So I sold this Saratoga Top on ebay for $421. Shipped it FedEx Ground to RI. Arrived cracked. The top was wrapped in a moving blanket, then placed in side a box and that box was then put in a bigger box with more packing around the smaller box.

They buyer is cool, he wants to keep the top, but would like some $$ refunded. I'm cool with that because it is the right thing to do. I have never had to file a claim for damage. I don't expect this to be a fun or easy process. Any words of advice before I start? Thanks

Posted by: drive-ability Sep 1 2007, 11:49 PM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Sep 1 2007, 09:28 PM)

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 2 2007, 08:04 AM

that's one of the reasons you make sure to put the real value on the shipping form. if you just go with the basic $100 assumed value you're screwed. i always make a notation on the form even tho there's no space for it. the upgrade to real value is very minor with regards to the total shipping cost. i hope it all works out for you guys.

k

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Sep 2 2007, 08:07 AM

It is always on the shipper to file a claim. the only way around this is for the shipper to mail the recipt he got for shipping to the buyer.

Zach

Posted by: BarberDave Sep 2 2007, 08:15 AM

Garold:
To bad that was a nice and rare top. you couldn't have done a better job

packing IMO. How well do you know the Buyer? Is he trustworthy? IMO you are

the one who bought the Ins. ,even if buyer paid for it. You deal with FedX.

I have not delt with Fed X on this type of thing but UPS many times! Your buyer

files a claim with Fed X ,(he should save boxes and packing material) fed X will

examine it and contact you. YOU DEAL WITH THEM, not your buyer!!!!!!

I am very suspicious of someone who will buy and pay for a Saragota top and

claim it is cracked on delivery, BUT still wants it . What for? The crack kind of

defeats it purpose dosn't it.

Me think something is not right here. I think the buyer is trying to work you .

I would want conformation from Fed X , and pictures from the seller be fore a returned a dime.
Also if he wants a major reduction in price, 1/2 or more tell him ,to ship it

back and you will refund the full price ,less shipping. That usually seperates the

cons from the honest ones . Good luck man,and keep us posted. David

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 2 2007, 08:49 AM

QUOTE(BarberDave @ Sep 2 2007, 06:15 AM)

Garold:
To bad that was a nice and rare top. you couldn't have done a better job

packing IMO. How well do you know the Buyer? Is he trustworthy? IMO you are

the one who bought the Ins. ,even if buyer paid for it. You deal with FedX.

I have not delt with Fed X on this type of thing but UPS many times! Your buyer

files a claim with Fed X ,(he should save boxes and packing material) fed X will

examine it and contact you. YOU DEAL WITH THEM, not your buyer!!!!!!

I am very suspicious of someone who will buy and pay for a Saragota top and

claim it is cracked on delivery, BUT still wants it . What for? The crack kind of

defeats it purpose dosn't it.

Me think something is not right here. I think the buyer is trying to work you .

I would want conformation from Fed X , and pictures from the seller be fore a returned a dime.
Also if he wants a major reduction in price, 1/2 or more tell him ,to ship it

back and you will refund the full price ,less shipping. That usually seperates the

cons from the honest ones . Good luck man,and keep us posted. David

Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Sep 2 2007, 07:29 PM

ahhhh... I suspect you are up the proverbial creek w/o a paddle...

I bought a part from a CA vendor. He ships FedEx... I get the box; and it's EMPTY!!! As in Some A**hole cut the tape on the BOTTOM of the box, slipped the part out, and sent the empty box on it's way to me!

I went to FedEX... they said only the Shipper can file a claim... I went to the shipper... he gives me some crap about never having a problem with FedEx, and they won't pay the claim w/o proof. I photo the box, but WTH, how can you prove the box came to me empty???

So, I didn't get squat, and I didn't get my money back either!

Love to hear how you resolve this one! Can't see how the Top got scratched unless someone pulled it out of the blanket and deliberately stomped it...

Posted by: BarberDave Sep 3 2007, 03:44 PM

73PHOENIX20:

Your ans. is weight,weight, the shipping company weighted your shippment at the start,should weight the same when it gets to you,Right.

So have shipper pick it up and weight it. Was it plain that it was opened before delivery. Did you note that? Or was it the Brown truck guys who just leave things on the porch?
If there is a difference in the weight,something was removed in shippment. If not the guy you bought from is a scam artist.

No matter the amount of money were talking about these scam artists need to be called on the carpet.

The same for shipping companys, the brown truck people have opened and stolen items at least 6 times on me.
They count on you blowing it off. That policy probbly saves themTHOUSANDS in INs. claim Money.
If you don,t belive that, attend a ( Unclaimed Merchandise) sale they have

to often. Don,t let it drop,eather way. Dave

Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Sep 3 2007, 05:24 PM

Well, good point on the weight, but it was the "White Truck" guys this time! FedEx that is...

I have been unbelievably lucky using 'Brown", but it may be that I know the locals, and they do a BIG business with my niece's company, so they really don't want to screw up a sweet deal by screwing with me.

I will see if I still have the original package, and if the weight was marked on it... of course, they dropped it on the front porch, and I can't prove what it weighed when they left it here, so I guess they (or the Seller) got me on this one! Just irritates me that I paid for insurance on this item, and still got screwed!

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 3 2007, 09:00 PM

Well this has turned in to a big cluster F with the buyer. We agreed on a refund price, I sent him a paypal, now he wants more to cover the Fee paypal charged him. Sorry, but no deal. I feel I have been more than fair, he got to keep the top AND some $$ back. sheesh.

So Bob, if you are on this site and reading this we are done unless you want to send the top back to me, then I will refund the rest minus shipping costs.

I have 980 pos rating on ebay with 1 neg from a buyer that I gave neg feedback on for waiting over two months to pay for a $10 item.

Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 3 2007, 09:09 PM

I had to do a claim with them when they destroyed an intermediate plate by dropping the whole box. Long story, but I got the money back. They were not gonna give me squat at first because they thought that I was a private citizen ( I am ), so I sent them an invoice from my "company" with all the totals and they actually refunded me $25 more than I claimed Seriously, generate a cost for the item form "Garolds Old Porsche Parts" and fax it to them. It is the fastest and easiest way to get it done. If you need a parent company email me and you can use my friends

Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Sep 3 2007, 09:35 PM

My "rule of the thumb" is "You want your money back? Fine, send me the part back and I will send you a refund less shipping and eBay fees."

I only had one "Squawker", and that was over a $200.00 SeaRay PS Pump that I sold him for $20.00! And he still tried to get me to give him his $20.00 back... Never would say why he did not want the Pump. I said send it back... no problem. and I also told him I had the Serial # off the pump I sent him, and it had better damn well be the same pump I get back! Never heard another word from him!

I don't know, Garold...I got a bad feeling about this deal... Maybe you should press him to get the top back, and see what he does... if he balks, then file a complaint with Paypal???

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 3 2007, 09:42 PM

More info, I'm still pissed that he want more $$.

Ebay Auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=018&sspagename=STRK%3AMESO%3AIT&viewitem=&item=280144054607&rd=1

Email's in the order recieved from hom and sent by me.

Email #1 from Bob

Hi Gerald!

Received the Saratoga top and it was broke and cracked and had a chip. I am hoping we can work this out. Still want the top but one corner is broken. You did not pack it good enough as I told you Fedex and other shippers are very abusive up here. As you will see from the pictures the box was dented in one corner. As you can see from the pics it resulted in a broken top.
I am hoping we can work this out - don't want to file a grievance or a negative.

Please get back to me right away and we can work out how much you can refund to me as this was almost $500 with shipping. If not, I will go for it all.

P.S. I'm easy to work with. I know we can work something out ($)

My response

Bob it was wrapped in a moving blanket, inside a box
and inside another box full of packing material. Not
sure how much better you can pack it. With that being
said what do you want for I refund?

Garold

Then I sent this follow up email

Bob, also can I see two more pictures please. I would
like to see pictures of complete top, both sides.

Thank you - Garold

Response #2 from Bob
Garold you should have filled the box with peanuts I use to work in a
shipping department at a company and there were not enough peanuts in
the box but with that being said the shipper FedEx should have treated it
with care and once again they beat it to hell. so I welcome you to go after
these people, but as far as money you will be getting all your money back so
how about you refund 250. I think this is fair

Response #3 from Bob

Here are the pictures you requested of both sides. Can't really see the
crack and chip since they are full far away pictures. You already have
those pictures. Hope this helps. Let me know what we are going to do
about the refund.


My response to that email

Bob, It was full of peanuts, if it had a hole in the
box like you one picture shows then the came out.

You paid $466.44 total for the top & shipping so I
will offer half ($234) of that as a refund. Let me
know and I can get you paypal refund today.

Garold

Response #4 from Bob

Thanks for the quick response. $234 sounds fair. Please credit my
paypal
account for the $234.

Bob

At this point we were not home the rest of the night. Ended up at my inlaws when we got home today, here is the email from Bob

Response #5 from Bob

did not see anything in my pay pal so whats up Garold?


My response when I got home and read his email

Easy there mister. Sorry, we were out of town over
night. You have your refund.

Now I might have been a I little short in my response, but I was still not 100% sure the pictures he sent me was the top I sent him I will post these pictures.

Response #6 from Bob

Paypal charged some $7.09 fee from the $234 you owe me. I do not care
what the fee is. We agreed on $234 that is what I want. Please send
another $7.09 and whatever fee is necessary to make it $234 as we agreed upon.
Thanks in advance.

Bob

P.S. Now that you're home please make that happen today. Appreciate it.

My next two responses:

Nope, same fee they charged me.
Then I followed up with this

One more thing, I think I have been more than fair.
You got a refund and you get to keep the top, what
more do you want? If you are not happy with this, then
send the top back to me and I will refund the rest of
your money minus the return shipping costs. That is my
final offer.

To be honest I feel the top was very well packed, and
in good faith I have given you a refund. From your full
length pictures I can't tell if it is the top I sent
you or not. There are some very disticnt marks on the
top I sent you, which I don't see in the complete top
photos. So as far as I am concerned we are done. Do
what you feel you have to do, but I feel you have
gotten a fair deal.

Here are the pictures he sent me.





Pictures showing damage to OUTER BOX. Note there was at least 3 inches of packing peanuts between the inside of this box and the box that was inside it with the top.




Complete top pictures he sent me. I can not see the deep scratch marks that are on the top I sent him (see ebay pictures) this is why I feel it might be a different top.

Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 3 2007, 10:04 PM

Dude, you have been more than civil and fair. I do not like the tones of his emails at all. The way things should have gone is he should have had to wait for you to get a claim from FedEx. You did not pack the item deficiently, thus it is not your fault. I am wary about this matter as well

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 3 2007, 10:31 PM

Most recent email from Bob

One more thing buddy. I've dealt with ebay before. If I put in for
the whole money back it will be at your cost to return the thing and I will
get all my money back. It is stupid on your part to argue about $7.09 when
it's your negligence in packing and when I could get all the money back and
you will get back YOUR BROKEN top that you did not pack right because you
were too cheap to let Fedex pack it. This is what happens when you are
cheap. So give me the rest of my money that we agreed upon because the top got
broken because of you. Obviously it is broken. or you're going to lose it
all and you're paying for the return shipping.

I sent you picture evidence, so once again stop being a cheap *** and
return the $7.09 and stop whining. Why should I pay for your fee.
$234 was what we agreed upon (half). I've been more than fair. Come on,
Garold, you said half which is $234 right? Not minus your fee for your negligence
and I will give you a positive. It's only $7.09.

I'm hoping we can work this out as I thought we already did. $7.09 and
I'm all done with you.

My response

Buddy, I don't think so.

It is not my negligence in packing and that is my
point. And calling me cheap for not having Fed EX pack
it, right. I send items way more expensive and fragile
all over the world packed like that, never in 6 years
has there been a issue.

Your over all pictures do not show the marks on the
top that the images from my auction show. I can't
honestly tell if it is the top I sent you or not. I in
good faith refunded you money, when I could easliy
said tuff. It's your "better do it or else" attitude
that has set me off. If you have any pride, see the
attached photos and show me the same photos with the
cracks. If you can't do that then you just got a $400
top for $200 bucks. If you do then I will apologize on
any forum you want. Actually you can check this site
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=75784
because I have posted the whole thing there with the
pictures.

And how do I know you are not going to ask ebay for a
refund anyway? I honestly don't have a good feeling
about you and your way of wanting to do business. I
think the best thing to do is just send me the top
back and when I receive it in the condition you
pictures show then I will refund you the complete
balance of ALL your money.

Posted by: Dr Evil Sep 3 2007, 10:41 PM

I vote for not the same top. The one with the bad crack looks to be in overall better shape.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 4 2007, 08:59 AM

were the seals on the top you sent as deteriorated as the one pictured? am i crazy or was there a similar issue with a saratoga top a few years ago? the top would have had to been removed COMPLETELY from the box to suffer those scratches in the field. the box damage and the intact tape indicate otherwise. i feel you may be victim to the old "switcherooo" or the guy dropped it upon removal from the box. if the buyer wanted it packed by fedex, he should have stated so and picked up the tab for that 'not for free' service. sorry a deal went south.

k

k

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 4 2007, 09:48 AM

Funny, how now that I have asked for more detailed pictures showing the "damage" and the marks that were already on the top that I sent I haven't heard anymore from asshat. Come on Bob show your face, I know you are reading this. I will give you a day to respond either here or via email, then I post your ture name and location.

Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Sep 4 2007, 10:52 AM

Can we get a poll on this?

I vote for the ol' "Two Different Tops" trick!

No way could FedEx or anyone do that damage to the Top without removing it from your packing and bouncing it on a very hard surface a few times!

What a deal! a $500 Saratoga Top is a pretty good deal, but then, hmmm... maybe I can get half my money back as well??? And to argue over $7 bucks???

WTF is this world coming to?

Posted by: KELTY360 Sep 4 2007, 11:33 AM

The top in the pictures the buyer sent looks like it's been polished. Obviously the top you sent had not been polished. Both pictures show a reflected light source but in your pics it highlights the swirls and scratches; in his pics it highlights a smooth, finished surface. Either he switched tops or he damaged the top you sent while polishing it.

I think you're being scammed. Good luck.

Posted by: 911quest Sep 4 2007, 12:14 PM

Garold sorry to hear about this crap I have dealt with you personaaly on Ebay I bought the 912, very straight forward even sent the title Via certified letter
hope it works out.......

Posted by: STL914 Sep 4 2007, 05:08 PM

Garold,

I had a similar experience about 6 years ago, but with the opposite position. I bought a Saratoga top from a guy in California who had it sent via UPS, even before I sent him payment. The box arrived at my door with a crushed corner and my wife called me at work. Got home and pulled out the top, front right corner shattered, ceramic mounting block for the latch also shattered, large scratch about 15" long from the latch as it fell in the box.

Seller didn't insure the package, but UPS had $200 coverage on it. I made several calls to UPS to find out what to do. Someone from UPS from out of state called me and warned me that UPS would take the top and ship it to their Florida center to sell it to recoup their up coming settlement. They tried 3 times to pick it up at my house and each time my wife told then to take a hike. I figured it was repairable, based on showing photos to a co-worker who had experience working with ceramics and plexiglas. He was able to repair it and handed me a bill, which I submitted to UPS.

It took over 6 months to get a settlement, the $200 sent to the seller. He was happy as a pig in shit because he sold me the top for $50. I was happy becuase I had the top, even though it was repaired, for $0. I later sold it on eBay for $250.

Posted by: orthobiz Sep 4 2007, 05:56 PM

Hey Garold,

At least the engine workshop cover your mom made me arrived without a single blem!!! Thanks again...

Sorry about the top. I once received a 914 hood from Arizona in a big single cardboard box with 4 sorry looking pieces of styrofoam, one in each corner, as the only padding/cushion. Needless to say, it was dented worse than the hood it was supposed to replace!

I never paid the guy, in the days before eBay, we both just forgot about it and moved on. I also have one negative feedback on eBay and it bugs me because up until then (and since then) eBay was the only place on this planet where I was absolutely PERFECT!!!!!

Paul

Posted by: Lawrence Sep 6 2007, 06:45 PM

I suspect it's two different tops.

Where is this Mister Bob? Do we have a member close to him that can go verify the damage?

-Rusty

Posted by: stateofidleness Sep 6 2007, 11:10 PM

safe to say: DO NOT DEAL WITH "bhulton3367a"

i feel bad for you man! reading those emails made me feel like it was happening to ME and it wasnt a good feeling. hope it works out for you

and dont send him another dime

you might be able to file a dispute with paypal to recoup that refund of 234$

keep those emails handy too

Posted by: boxstr Sep 6 2007, 11:33 PM

Sorry to read about th eBS you have to deal with. BTDT
I sent a CAMP 914 recovered dashpad to a fellow in San Juan Cap. in Calif. by FEDEX. It was insured for $575.
It arrived damaged. He took pics and I told him to send it back and I would send another.
He returned it, I took pics and filed a claim. They said NO. Thye always say no to the first attempt.I then sent another email to the claims dept in Philly, I called and spoke to the Claims dept rep. She said send pics and they would look at it again.
They agreed and they sent me a check for $575. I resold the dash as-is for $300.
Good luck.
CCL
I now send the dash pads in a custom made wood box.

Posted by: rhodyguy Sep 7 2007, 08:02 AM

after re-reading the terse and insulting replies, i'd have told him to go pound sand. everytime a box arrives, a buyer should inspect the outside of the box for damage. looks f-ed up? take the box to a fedex center and open it there if at all possible.

k

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Sep 7 2007, 08:19 AM

QUOTE(Lawrence @ Sep 6 2007, 04:45 PM)

I suspect it's two different tops.

Where is this Mister Bob? Do we have a member close to him that can go verify the damage?

-Rusty

Posted by: Van914 Sep 7 2007, 02:01 PM

Garold,
I hope you recover the $ from FedEx. I have enjoyed our transactions over the years.
Van914