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Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 8 2007, 10:13 PM

I removed the longs because I just knew there would be rust in there and I was right.

How bad is it and what are the repair techniques?

Seems to be limited to just around the jack points and one other area on the right side about 3/4 of the way up where foam was touching.

start from the begining for me I did a search, but didn't come up with much for the beginner metal worker.

Thanks

More pics available, just tell me if anything would be helpfull in the treatment


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Posted by: Rand Oct 8 2007, 10:56 PM

Here are a couple of my favorite threads:

michelko's: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748

cdmcse's: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=25165

Oh, and Jeff Hail recently started a great one: http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791

Some other key word searches that might work include: hell hole, rustoration, frame rail rust, suspension console rust

Posted by: rjames Oct 8 2007, 11:53 PM

Doesn't look much worse than mine was. It looks like a fairly easy fix, especially if you weld. If not, it just means you should learn!

Start by grinding all that rust down to bare metal to see how much metal you have left in that area.
I used a 1/4" drill with a stripping disk, and also a dremmel tool for those hard to reach areas.

After you've done this, post some more pictures and I'm sure plenty of folks will chime in with advice.

The threads that Rand posted are good ones, I studed them both long and hard before doing my repairs, even though mine weren't nearly that involved, they provided great info.

Posted by: Rand Oct 9 2007, 02:56 AM

Yes, for sure yours is no where near as bad as the other threads. I didn't mean to suggest that you would have to go through that kind of work. But great repair techniques and info therein.

I agree with Robert... Start by getting the rust off and see how extensive the damage is.

Looks to me like the whole jack plate / post needs to come off. A cutting disc on a grinder, then a grinding wheel should take care of that. The metal on the frame rail under that may not be so bad. Once that rotted metal is gone, wire wheel all the rust off and see what you have.

If you find the rust damage to the underlying metal is deep enough to threaten it's integrity severely, then you'll need to cut out the rotted metal and weld in some good sheet metal patches. There's a good chance it won't be that bad, but it's hard to tell yet.

Then treat the metal that was rusty with Ospho (or rust converter of the like).

Personally, I wouldn't bother putting another jack plate back on, but if you want to they should be readily available and you could weld a new one on.

If you add new metal, it should probably be treated with Metal Ready or another etching primer. Then paint everything with Hammerite or POR15.

Posted by: tdgray Oct 9 2007, 07:49 AM

That's not rust... sheesh... you guys are spoiled.

Seriously... that looks like an easy fix.

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 9 2007, 09:55 AM

show us the pass side rear portion of the long. that driver's side long is no biggie at this ooint. be prepared for more heartache the deeper you go.

k

Posted by: rmital Oct 9 2007, 09:59 AM

QUOTE(tdgray @ Oct 9 2007, 09:49 AM)

Posted by: brer Oct 9 2007, 11:06 AM

I did the same repair. My blog has pictures.
easy to do, though accessing the top of the jack point for welding will be near impossible without cutting the quarter panel.

A jack point delete might make the job easier, but I chose to keep them.

You can expect to lay in a couple layers of metal at the jack point, not a big deal.
One thing I would worry about is rust inside the long. Maybe someone else has experience as to when its adviseable to open it and treat the inside?

SirAndy sprayed the inside of his with metal ready as I recall.

Posted by: rmital Oct 9 2007, 11:36 AM

QUOTE(brer @ Oct 9 2007, 01:06 PM)

Posted by: Rand Oct 9 2007, 12:39 PM

QUOTE(tdgray @ Oct 9 2007, 06:49 AM)

Posted by: rhcb914 Oct 9 2007, 12:54 PM

I had the same issues a couple years back. It really wasn't that difficult to repair. If you end up opening up the longs I would treat them with Por 15 or some rust preventing paint. I used an engine detail gun to reach into the longs. They are cheap from harbor freight.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3953

The hardest part was welding the top of the jack support. I ended up cutting the door jam to get access rather than cutting the fender. I didn't want to have to repaint the quarter pannels.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=27066&hl=



Good luck!!

Posted by: dflesburg Oct 9 2007, 01:10 PM

Zen,

Your car is terminal, if you ship it to me along with $250 I will dispose of it properly for you.

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 9 2007, 04:22 PM

QUOTE(dflesburg @ Oct 9 2007, 02:10 PM)

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 10 2007, 10:09 AM

What are some good resources to buy NOS or repro parts like the jack post supports or outer longs? Or do I just find a donor?

Thanks

Posted by: Headrage Oct 10 2007, 10:41 AM

Do a google search for Restoration Design.

They make repro sheetmetal parts.

Posted by: type11969 Oct 10 2007, 11:56 AM

Or you could just fab it all yourself using what you have left as a template and make paper templates where you need them:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=66637

Its not tough, just time consumping I suppose. What you have looks easy to repair by fabbing yourself.

-Chris

Posted by: George H. Oct 10 2007, 12:06 PM

http://www.restoration-design.com/

and put up a want to buy in the classifieds, you will be surprised at how many people have parts laying around

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 13 2007, 08:38 PM

Here comes the heart ache

Passenger side ling is not nearly as nice. I have some floor board/firewall rust as well. The POS had covered these up with pieces of tin and screws then put undercoating over it to hide it. Didn't see it till I started stripping everything
Pics of passenger side

Firewall

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 13 2007, 08:39 PM

Right Long underside



support plate. Notice the silver goo along the firewall.. not sure what that is yet, but it can't be good

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 13 2007, 08:41 PM

Front of long




Right side long outside

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 13 2007, 08:42 PM

Is there a way to get the jack post out with out cutting the quarter panel, or is that the least of my worries?

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 13 2007, 09:31 PM

That's just a stub. It doesn't go through the long. Just use a Sawsall.

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 14 2007, 12:47 PM

Yeah I busted out the sawsall today, but before I go any further do I need to tie in the frame with a support bracketfrom the seat belt bolt to door hinge to keep it from flexing when I start removing material?

Posted by: type11969 Oct 14 2007, 01:57 PM

I definitely would. What you have looks similar to what I had to deal with, probably a bit less extensive. Take a gander at the thread I posted above if you want to see how I dealt with the rust.

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 14 2007, 02:00 PM

QUOTE(type11969 @ Oct 14 2007, 02:57 PM)

Posted by: type11969 Oct 14 2007, 06:18 PM

You definitely don't have to remove the whole quarter panel . . . I pulled mine because someone replaced from the sail panel down on my quarter, but used rivets, braze and a generous helping of bondo to do so. You probably will have to cut a small section out like michelko (sp?) did in his repair though.

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 14 2007, 07:07 PM

That is what I was afraid of, I can weld ok, but nothing good enough for finishing work on butt welds. I just don't have the rig for it. It would be easier for me to remove the spot welds then cut the corner panel.

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 14 2007, 11:17 PM

wow.

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 14 2007, 11:28 PM

Do yourself a favor, don't start on this project without help. It looks like your in over your head.

Posted by: type11969 Oct 15 2007, 07:18 AM

If you can find someone local that has been through this to help you out that would be a huge benefit, but you can do it yourself with the guidance of people and threads here. Before I tackled my 914 I had never welded before, let alone fabricated anything and while my end result probably won't be as nice as others on here, it will be strong and functional. There is no reason why you can do the same. The shapes of the 914 "frame" are not difficult to fabricate with simple tools, and most of the pieces are readily available from AA if you want to go that route.

-Chris

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 15 2007, 11:40 AM

type11969 thanks for the support everybody else if you have something constructive share it. I guess I should rephrase. I can weld just fine, but I don't have a good MIG welder right now. Just not in the budget so having someone else do it is definitley not in the budget. I thought removing the Q panel by drilling the spot welds would make it easier to re-weld with the rig I have. I have done metal fabrication before, just not on a 914. As others have been there and done that I am looking for any tips and tricks so I am not reinventing the rust bucket as it were. These should be simple repairs with the exception of access to the areas covered by the Q panel. If I am wrong tell me, but tell me why and how I should do it. To late to not start on it as I stripped the car last night. And why wait the rust isn't

Thanks

Posted by: type11969 Oct 15 2007, 11:56 AM

You may consider cutting the quarter panel then having someone else weld it back on . . . taking the whole panel off is kind of a pain. I know I am not looking forward to putting it back on. Or you could rent a MIG when you need to weld the section of the quarter panel back on.

Posted by: rhcb914 Oct 16 2007, 09:07 AM

If the rust is mostly located in the lower part of the long and the jack support you can reach all of that area by just cutting the door jam and using a mig with a small gun. Use a very thin cutoff wheel to cut the jam and drill the spot welds along the inner part of the door jam. You can see what I am talking about in the link I posted earlier. I was deathly afraid of cutting the quarter pannel because 1) it has the orignal paint that I wanted to preserve and 2) I knew I wouldn't be able to get it lined up perfectly. By cutting the jams I had all the access I needed (it was tight) and when I finished I was able to patch it well enough for an amature that you can bearly tell. If you open the doors and look closely you can see I have been in there but with the doors closed you can't tell there was ever any rust repair and I only had to paint the longs and the door jam area.

Posted by: KaptKaos Oct 16 2007, 11:47 AM

Now THAT is a gumption trap!

Posted by: zen motorcycle Oct 16 2007, 09:04 PM

QUOTE(rhcb914 @ Oct 16 2007, 10:07 AM)