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Posted by: vesnyder Oct 24 2007, 07:05 PM

I received a set of copper gaskets with my new AA P&C's and I assumed they go between the heads and cylinders (they fit perfectly inside the heads around the valves) but after I torque up the heads there looks like there is a space between the head and cylinder the same thickness as the copper washer - did I put those in the wrong place?

I watcehd Jake's video and he mentions nothing about a gasket here?

Posted by: Krieger914 Oct 24 2007, 07:11 PM

I did not do it almost 10k ago no problems and 5 years of autocrossing.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 24 2007, 07:33 PM

You sure they don't go at the base of the cylinder? The Cap'n

BTW, there's always a gap of some sort between the shoulder of the head and the finned area of the cylinder. Has to be.

Posted by: vesnyder Oct 24 2007, 08:18 PM

I used a very thin aluminum one at the base of the cylinder, but this one is much thicker and copper?

Posted by: toon1 Oct 24 2007, 09:00 PM

Oh boy, here we go!!!LOL

cap'n say's YES to the gasket, Jake say's NO.

Your choice, either will work.

My last top end rebuild I used them and after6000 miles noticed that a couple had sucked in twards the center of the cyl. . The engine ran fine.

My .02

Posted by: Twystd1 Oct 25 2007, 12:31 AM

NO HEAD GASKET is my choice.

Clayton

Posted by: orange914 Oct 25 2007, 08:02 PM

vw also came out with a tsb bulletin saying no gaskets between heads/cylinders

Posted by: craig downs Oct 25 2007, 11:35 PM

To prove not to use them Aaron redid his top end after 30k miles and 1 maybe 2
of the aluminium head gaskets were burned thru with about 1" gap. I have also
taken other engines apart that had them and most of the time they were burnt.
Some say its ok to use em but why take a chance. Just lap the cylinders to the head and be done with it.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Oct 25 2007, 11:59 PM

FAT Performance uses head gaskets, so my engine has head gaskets. Still working great after about 15,000 miles. They have been building vw engines for over 30 years, so I leave those decisions to them.
Cheers, Elliot

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Oct 26 2007, 12:22 AM

See? The information is true, BUT, it's for bus pistons, REPLACEMENT bus heads, and bus compression, running different EFI. (And running an EGR to keep the combustion temps down!) NOWHERE does it say information pertaining to 1976 and newer VW BUSSES applies to 914s. By the year to which the bulletin applies, the 2.0 engine was the only 914 engine available, and it has different pistons, different cylinders, different heads, and a different compression ratio. Sure, apples and oranges are both round, both fruit, and both grow on trees with roots, trunks, and green leaves. Does that make the same TSBs apply to both? Do they have the same growing seasons, grow well under the same climatic conditions, and look and taste the same? Take the same fertilizer? Maybe not. I'll buy Jake running engines without head gaskets, for his own reasons, and with his own experience, but I'll NEVER buy applying a totally irrelevant TSB as a reason for doing so.

Put it another way: California specifies a white reflectorized license plate with blue lettering. Does that mean everyone in every other state should run out and paint theirs those colors? Are their cops gonna give 'em tickets if they don't?

I REALLY wish this urban myth would die an appropriate death. How many people who cite this TSB have actually read it, and IN CONTEXT? What about the rods? Read that one? If you're gonna cite TSBs, at least cite ones that apply.

The Cap'n

Posted by: craig downs Oct 26 2007, 01:12 AM

By all means use em if you want. If you had good luck with them fine but the experience I have had with them is why I don't use them.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Oct 26 2007, 07:30 AM

Betty's 914 has been running head gaskets as long as she owned it. It has over 300,000 miles, and it has never had a head gasket related failure.

As for lapping the cylinders... how can you be sure you got them square when hand lapping? How can you be sure that you removed all of the lapping compound?

Posted by: HAM Inc Oct 26 2007, 08:37 AM

Step away from the head gaskets! Don't use them. Hate them. It doubles the oppurtunity for a leak. Instead of one interface, you have two. VW issued a bulletin years ago saying not to use them.
Make sure you have .035"-.040" deck ht in the cylinders as the head gasket adds to the deck. When you pull out the gaskets you drop the deck ht. Generally the gasket thickness is around .028".
Vance are the heads the ones I did for you recently? If so lapping will not be required. If you do lap use a compound of Ajax or some other fine abrasive cleaner. DOn't use the valve grinding compound you get at NAPA or other parts stores. It's way to abrasive. Spin each cylinder the same amount. Lapping is more of a QC proceedure than anything. You just want to make sure you have contact all the way around. Marking the jugs and the heads with a Sharpie helps identify low spots.

Posted by: toon1 Oct 26 2007, 09:03 AM

Do you use any type of compound between the cyl. and head for assembly?

Posted by: HAM Inc Oct 26 2007, 12:36 PM

I believe Jake sprays the heads with coppercoat. Don't worry about overspray getting on the valves or chambers.

Posted by: vesnyder Oct 26 2007, 01:11 PM

HAM - Same heads. I guess I will not use the gaskets. Need to check deck height - was curious about the required clearance - Thanks!