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Posted by: flippa Oct 30 2007, 08:24 PM

I went to get the title for my car today at the registry. I will admit that it has been years since I have been there to register and/or get a title for an older car.

The woman at the counter told me that Massachusetts no longer assess the sales tax on the sales price of the car as too many people were cheating the system. The sales tax would be based on the car's book value. She left to go & look up my car's value. I thought to myself, "it's 37 years old, how much could the assessed value really be?"

I was shocked when she returned & told me that the car had a value of $8,900, and the tax would be 5 percent of that value, or $445. WTF????? I told her that I was surprized, stating that it is a 37 year old restoration project.

I asked nicely if she was sure about the value. I explained that I had the bare bones 1970 4 cylinder car, not the 6 (no need to piss her off, she is going to have a part in deciding how much I will be paying).

After looking up the value again, she came back & asked if $5,400 was better. What could I say? I was "saving" $175. Walked out with my new title and several hundred dollars less in my checking account.

How do the Department of Motor Vehicles / Registrys determine the value of the cars? Is it the same value that an insurance company would be using? Who determines these values? I know the 914's are increasing in value, but $8,900????

What is my 914 really worth?

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Oct 30 2007, 08:58 PM

Welcome to Taxachussets!

Are you sure there isn't an appeals procedure in your state? Not every car is worth its' book value.

Here in FLA, after your car is 20/25 yrs. old, you receive an "antique" plate and annual reg. is $25. Even for daily-drivers, the most I ever paid was $45 for reg. We do pay a sales tax, based on the sales price of the vehicle at the time of purchase (6%).

Posted by: John Oct 30 2007, 09:03 PM

I hope she at least bought you dinner first or calls you tomorrow.

I don't believe that they can even look up a (Kelly Blue Book) value of much before 1987.

You should have asked to see the listing (or gotten a print out of it).

That's all I'm going to say.

Posted by: flippa Oct 30 2007, 09:11 PM

Taxachusetts is right! They stick it to us real good up here on everything, even antique vehicles now.

I am going to check on the appeals process, but I guess that I ned to figure out how the DMV is determining the value.

The last antique that I registered/titled was back in 1995, a 1968 Buick Skylark convert. I think that it only cost $50 at that time. Had no clue that I would be shelling out over $300 this afternoon.

Posted by: flippa Oct 30 2007, 09:15 PM

No dinner & don't expect the call tomorrow.

I didn't even get a kiss!

Posted by: Root_Werks Oct 30 2007, 09:36 PM

WA is the same way with cars and "assessessed" values. It sucks and most of the time isn't worth the trouble to get the tax reduced a few hundred bucks. Still $uck$

Posted by: brer Oct 30 2007, 09:52 PM

wow, i'm surprised that could even be legal.

Posted by: stateofidleness Oct 30 2007, 09:56 PM

here in texas, show a receipt (in my case my paypal invoice lol) and you pay tax on the purchase price of the car...

Posted by: ejm Oct 30 2007, 10:02 PM

According to the http://www.mass.gov/rmv/regs/index.htm

I'm pretty sure there is no NADA trade in value for our cars. There is a NADA average retail close to the original value she quoted. The same page also states

I've never had the value on a signed bill of sale questioned but then I live in Western Mass which is a whole different place from where you are.

Posted by: flesburg Oct 30 2007, 10:18 PM

I have lived in IL, NJ, MN, GA, OH, VA, and MO.

VA was the worst, with an annual property tax of like 6% of blue book.
Of course I lived in the western mountains, and 60 or 70% of the people
had more money invested in cars than in houses. All of the "Good Old Boys"
had a PO box in FL, and had FL plates on their cars. Maybe you guys in MA
could register your cars in FL. (You will need a PO box, and a FL drivers license).

I am sure glad I never lived in MA.

You have a great Baseball team, but I question how your Senators keep getting
elected.

Do they charge you a tax if you move away?

New York City only charges tolls on the
tunnels as you leave (or they did when I lived in NJ).

Posted by: WyKev Oct 30 2007, 10:55 PM

In Colorado, just show a reciept. In Wyoming, they stick it to you. They have a book(saw it) that has the LIST price of almost anything that goes on the road back to 1960.

Try the shock of registering a 89 Audi 200 Tq. That thing was 40k when new. I paid 1500. And no, I didn't get a kiss either. Gotta love the government.

Posted by: rick 918-S Oct 31 2007, 12:09 AM

I had that happen to me once here in MN. when I transfered my 914 about 15 years ago. I declared I paid 1500.00 for the car as I did. The girl took my money and gave me plates. About a month or so later I received a letter from the DMV stating there was a problem with my vin. and they couldn't send me a title until I called them. The DMV guy told me that based on the info they had my 914 should be worth 10,000.00 and I owed the tax on that value. I gave him two options. He could send me my title or an invoice for the amount of tax he felt I owed. But I told him that the Attorney General recently made a radio commercial warning citizens to be on the look out for people attempting to extort money from you. I insured the DVM guy that If I received a bill instead of my title I would have his name into the Attorney Generals office the next day in a formal letter of complaint.

I received the title.

Tha whole system is a huge government ripoff!

Posted by: Cevan Oct 31 2007, 08:31 AM

I just titled/registered mine in Mass in August. They used the value in the NADA book using the low retail price. I argued that I paid alot less than the number they were using to no avail. They gave me an abatement form, but I figured my car was probably worth at least the amount they valued it at. At least we have no emissions test to deal with.

Posted by: type47 Oct 31 2007, 09:05 AM

a recent governor (or was it HMFIC of the county?) ran on a platform that he would phase out the personal property tax on cars in VA (or was it the county). they are trying to phase the tax back in (revenue shortfalls due to "previous administration"). at any rate, i pay NO personal property tax on my 3 cars as they are all older than 20 yrs old, the tax cut off age.

Posted by: rhcb914 Oct 31 2007, 09:14 AM

Dude that sux! Looks like they took the values right off the NADA collector values.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1970&m=1144&d=5173&c=13&vi=84832&z=02382&da=-1

When I registered mine also a 1970 bare bones 4 it was valued at $2000 but that was back in 03.

I guess they have to pay for the big dig some how.


Glad to see another masshole here!!

Posted by: flippa Oct 31 2007, 10:21 AM

Thanks for the NADA link. At least I know where they came up with a $5400 value for my car.

Still feel like I am getting (BWT; the smilies is the DMV, I am the sheep).

Now if my car got croaked in an accident, does the insurance company go by these values as well? I am sure this discussion has come up before from a few of you guys having the cars stolen or totaled in accidents.

Back in 1988, I was rear-ended in my first 914, which was a clone of this car, a white 1970 1.7. The other guy's insurance company offered me @ $1,000 for my car. I flipped out & started ranting at them; totally unacceptable, the car is a classic that is undergoing a restoration, worth much more than that insulting offer, blah blah blah. Without hesitation, they offered me $1,800 and I could keep the car, which I gladly accepted.

I loved that car, had done a bunch of work on getting it going & fixing the body, but I bought the car for $300 out of a junk yard, so the insurance money definnitely took the sting off loosing the car. I sold the wrecked 1970 & bought a 1974 2.0 which I drove as a daily driver for the next 5 years.

Posted by: jasons Oct 31 2007, 10:34 AM

Thats a total rip off. In AZ they use a pro-rated formula based on the original MSRP to calculate registration. Every year the taxable portion of the registration goes down until its $0. Sales tax is assessed at the dealers, not the MVD. Private party car deals == no sales tax. My old cars cost about $25 annually for registration, my newer cars (5 and 7 years old) cost a couple hundred. Title transfers are like $10.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Oct 31 2007, 11:03 AM

If you were to get in a wreck you could proove your car is worth much more than that buy submitting what other 914s have sold for. Insurance companies find the going rate. Unless you have Hagerty and just set the value of your car.

Posted by: mskala Oct 31 2007, 11:07 AM

This is interesting stuff. I don't remember getting reamed on mine, but the last times I bought a car in mass were '92 and '99 when this type of thing was not in place.

Still, if you buy a junker or something obviously not a 'good condition' vehicle, there is probably a way around that.

What is even more screwed up is the excise tax system, where every year you'll get a bill for I believe $25/1000 of their 'valuation' of the car. They have my '6 valued at $750. Also it looks like new or newer cars go down in value over 5 years but then seem to stop

Posted by: davep Oct 31 2007, 11:19 AM

Total ripoff! That is more than the car originally sold for. AND, they collected the full tax back then most likely.

Posted by: flippa Oct 31 2007, 11:36 AM

I don't know when they changed the rules, but it wasn't this expensive in the past.

What absolutely kills me is that I didn't even register the car yesterday, only transferred the title in my name. I will be paying more money out to them when I put it on the road.

I hadn't given it any thought how much they would be charging me on the registration and yearly excise tax once I do finally register the car.

Taxachussets is right. The State has us paying f---ing taxes on top of more taxes.

Posted by: JOE M Oct 31 2007, 11:42 AM

I moved from Ma to N.H a few years ago so I remember the taxes. In N.H I pay a tax based off of the original cost of the car. That kind of blows because my daily driver is a 2000 diamante with a new value of 30k. Even though it is 7 years old and only worth about 6k I still pay for the original value. What a scam.

Posted by: dinomium Oct 31 2007, 02:56 PM

They do the same thing here. To many forged bills of sale.

Posted by: Thack Oct 31 2007, 03:00 PM

Why do states charge sale tax for new car value when it's 6 years old? The original owner already paid that tax. Isn't that double taxation?

Posted by: Gint Oct 31 2007, 07:06 PM

Thanks for the NADA link. Wow. The state made me pay purchase price ($8500 back in 2002) taxes. They currently value the car at $7995.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1970&m=1144&d=5174&c=13&vi=84833&z=02382&da=-1

PRICING
Original MSRP: $5,999
Low Retail Average Retail Value High Retail
Base Price $16,700 $18,900 $25,100
TOTAL PRICE $16,700 $18,900 $25,100

Posted by: pfierb Oct 31 2007, 07:52 PM

On a private sale In Connecticut the DMV charges tax on whatever price is listed on the bill of sale....Unless the price is way out of wack with reality...There isn't even an inspection by the MVD anymore just a serial number check in the case of an old car i.e. a 914 no titles either with a car that is 25 years old.

Posted by: championgt1 Oct 31 2007, 08:27 PM

I just recently purchased a 94 ford f150 truck for $4700. I went to get it titled and the lady told me I had to pay Washington state tax on the truck based on fair market value. How much was that, $7400. Washington state bases the price on what they call an industry standard source, the National Market Reports(NMR). Fair market value is what the vehicle would sell for on a DEALERS LOT!!! I bought mine from a private party and had the bill of sale and that was not good enough?? She told me the only way I could get around it was to A: get estimates for repairs needed to the vehicle. B: get the retail value from the kelly blue book or C: go get the truck appraised at an authorized Ford Dealership. Oh and by the way you have to have this done and the title transfered within 15 days or there are fines on top of the cost of the taxes and title transfer. Needless to say I left there completely pissed off. Two days later just on a whim I went to a diffrent DMV office and that office gave me the title and made me pay taxes on only the $4700 that the original bill of sale said. NO QUESTIONS ASKED!! And we all wonder why state governments are totally screwed up.

Posted by: flippa Oct 31 2007, 09:59 PM

Great to see all the other Massholes out here (love that term Rob, haven't heard it in a while)

Well, looks like this is the new SOP in Massachusetts. Sales tax is based on NADA value. I called Donna, my Insurance Agent this afternoon, and told her my story.

Her exact words were "Oh ya, that sucks, don't it. They started doin that a while ago, gotta pay for that fuckin Big Dig. Like they say, welcome to Taxachusetts. It is what it is. They tell us what the value is and ya gotta pay it. Well. at least they came down 3 grand for ya."

(I hate smilies, but this one is soooo fitting!!!! Makes me laugh every time.)

Guess I won't be getting a title for the 74 2.0 parts car. I guess that one is worth almost 8 grand. WTF!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yeah......Happy Haloween

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Nov 1 2007, 01:08 AM

You could always have another "Tea Party"... It worked last time. Perhaps dumping old 914 parts in Boston Harbor will get the message across...?

Posted by: TC.356 Nov 1 2007, 08:02 AM

Same thing happened to me at the Plymouth registry ! ! ! !

The traffic (left over from the Big Dig, which was SUPPOSED to solve the traffic back-up) was all jammed up. I couldn't get NEAR the Boston Registry Office.

They were nice enough, and asked the condition from one to six. I chose one, she said it had to be at least three if I was driving the car.

Cost me like three hundred all together, but I got the plates.


MA is a VERY, VERY different place ! ! ! !

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 2 2007, 01:29 PM

My registration is 35 bucks a year for standard registration, but then again my car was only 4 grand new! I don't know how they crunched the numbers but my 914's registration is dirt cheap in Laramie, Wyoming.
My wife's and my Subarus on the other hand, well that hurt!

Posted by: my928s4 Nov 3 2007, 12:04 PM

Actually its not but you need to find a licensing facility that knows the rules or can be bothered to deal with you, I paid $91 this morning for the roller I bought a couple of weeks ago. I got lucky the lady was extremely nice and wished me luck on my project ...

Chris