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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ high-torque starters
Posted by: SGB Nov 10 2007, 02:22 PM
Well, I can tell ANOTHER starter is failing. There was great enthusiasm for those gear reduction starters available on ebay - for a while. Then the reports started coming in about possible problems. I think I remember that they were damaging flywheels or something. What has your experience been if you have one of these?
Posted by: McMark Nov 10 2007, 02:27 PM
My experience is that some of the models don't retract far enough and will hit the flywheel ring gear teeth. I have one in my car that did that. But I noticed the odd noise the first time I tried to start it. Pulled the starter back out and spaced the starter away from the transmission with a washers on each of the mounting bolts. The Cap'n says I'm a fool to do it that way, and I don't disagree with him in theory (the immense torque can/will rock the starter if it's not fully supported). But I'm willing to deal with it. Maybe it's worth talking to Engman about cutting a Hi-Torque Spacer that would more suitably support the starter.
Posted by: okieflyr Nov 10 2007, 10:49 PM
Mine has served me well for almost 2 years now. I expect to pull it soon and sell it, as I'm working on another transmission type and won't need it. At that time i'll look at the ring and see if there are any ongoing issues....
Well, I can tell ANOTHER starter is failing. There was great enthusiasm for those gear reduction starters available on ebay - for a while. Then the reports started coming in about possible problems. I think I remember that they were damaging flywheels or something. What has your experience been if you have one of these?
Posted by: SLITS Nov 11 2007, 12:16 AM
My experience is that some of the models don't retract far enough and will hit the flywheel ring gear teeth. I have one in my car that did that. But I noticed the odd noise the first time I tried to start it. Pulled the starter back out and spaced the starter away from the transmission with a washers on each of the mounting bolts. The Cap'n says I'm a fool to do it that way, and I don't disagree with him in theory (the immense torque can/will rock the starter if it's not fully supported). But I'm willing to deal with it. Maybe it's worth talking to Engman about cutting a Hi-Torque Spacer that would more suitably support the starter.
If you spend a few more bucks and by the good one from RB Performance, Parker, Arizona, you won't have the problems. His are about $170ish.
Posted by: Gary Nov 11 2007, 12:39 AM
Got mine a couple years ago from Pelican. Turns the 2.7 fine. It's smaller, lighter too 
.
Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Nov 11 2007, 05:38 PM
While mine works well (e-bay unit), it required a thin spacer to move it away a little bit as it was engaging too far into the flywheel. Yeah, a washer under the bolts will work. I used a full-face spacer I made in leu of washers.
Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 11 2007, 06:13 PM
They'll knock the teeth right off of aluminum flywheels.
Posted by: jd74914 Nov 11 2007, 07:07 PM
Where do you get a totally Al flywheel?
Posted by: Twystd1 Nov 11 2007, 07:42 PM
For that matter.... Aluminum ring gears..???
Muy no comprende.
C
Posted by: PRS914-6 Nov 11 2007, 08:34 PM
See http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=75173
I have bought 2 starters from Highperformnance USA. One for my 3.6 and the other for a 383 high compression Chevy in my truck. No problems with either. No goofy noises when cranking, no spacers or washers. Bolt in and go......
Posted by: jd74914 Nov 11 2007, 08:37 PM
For that matter.... Aluminum ring gears..???
Muy no comprende.
C
That's really what I was wondering. I thought that Fidanza makes an aluminum flywheel with the steel ring gear and bolt on friction surface.
Posted by: type47fan Nov 11 2007, 09:53 PM
While mine works well (e-bay unit), it required a thin spacer to move it away a little bit as it was engaging too far into the flywheel. Yeah, a washer under the bolts will work. I used a full-face spacer I made in leu of washers.
Full face spacer thickness? Gotta picture?
Thanks,
Posted by: SGB Nov 12 2007, 12:09 AM
The washer idea, while expedient, does seem scary. The load transferred to the bolt holes during engagement has got to be quite an impact. I would have to go for one that is the proper throw, or a full spacer to take some of that impact and transfer it to the mounting area, not just the bolts and holes.
Posted by: 9146986 Nov 12 2007, 11:09 AM
OEM Bosch starters have little to zero problems.
Do ya feel lucky?
Do ya have AA?
Do you like to buy starters and/or flywheels?
Can you guess my .02 on this issue??
Posted by: wbergtho Nov 12 2007, 07:13 PM
I have the E-Bay starter and it turns over my 11.3:1 LS6 V-8 just fine. Mine bolted right to my 930 box without spacers or any issues.
Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 12 2007, 07:50 PM
The ebay one I got works very well, but there are other types that do not work well and cause the aforementioned problems. Do a search and you will see.
Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 12 2007, 09:04 PM
I got the ebay one too and it has worked well for me.
At one point, the starter had a problem. The guy I bought it from cleaned it up and sent it back, no problem. Turned out to be the beginning symptoms of my tranny leak, as fluid was getting inside the starter.
Posted by: echocanyons Nov 12 2007, 09:21 PM
My 6mo experience with an ebay hi-torque mini.
It spins quick but often doesn't retract quickly enough and drags.
It is finicky, I mean sometime it just doesn't work. I thought that it was my electrical ignition switch but after I replaced the switch the problem persists, I now know that it is the starter.
I thought it was a reasonable upgrade/alternative to the original, but I soon will be replacing it with an oem replacement type.
I have it spaced out with 3 washers of unknown thickness.
I haven't recently seen the shape of my flywheel but I do know that a rebuilt bosch is cheaper than a new flywheel.
On the other hand it is definitely much lighter and smaller.
Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 12 2007, 09:47 PM
Patrick MotorSports makes full aluminum flywheels that look like swiss cheese and weigh pretty much nothing. I have installed 3 in my life, one of them because I got the timing just a tad off on fire up, while cranking over on the engine with a high torque starter. Ripped the teeth right off the unit.
Posted by: Bass Fisher Nov 12 2007, 10:10 PM
OEM Bosch starters have little to zero problems.
Do ya feel lucky?
Do ya have AA?
Do you like to buy starters and/or flywheels?
Can you guess my .02 on this issue??
I agree BUT, Bosch doesn't make new ones and they don't do the rebuilds. The rebuilds are only as good as the rebuilder. That's why I keep cores, send them to a local rebuilder so that I can be assured of quality.
I also prefer the SR68X model which is 1.5hp.
Posted by: SLITS Nov 13 2007, 07:56 AM
The only time I lost teeth on a /6 flywheel was with an OEM Bosch starter (SR68X or Lester 16246).
Rimco repaired the flywheel for $105.00 (new ring gear & surface grind).
And as stated above, "it is the quality of the rebuilder". Most local small shops will do a better job, but cost more than a production rebuilder.
Don't sell the jap starters short .... they are better engineered than Bosch ever thought of.
Posted by: jasons Nov 13 2007, 09:08 AM
I have the IMI starter and it works great. Install was a little tricky, because the positive battery lug was on top of the starter. So its in between the trunk floor and the starter. But I have none of the above mentioned problems.
FWIW, high torque starters are just Toyota starter motors adapted to other cars. So as far as reliability, the starter should be more reliable than your car. However, the starter may only be as good as the company that adapted the toyota starter motor to your application. Thats why some people may be experiencing problems.
Posted by: SLITS Nov 13 2007, 11:23 AM
Actually two manufacturers ... Nippondenso and Hitachi
Posted by: PRS914-6 Nov 13 2007, 11:51 AM
I have the IMI starter and it works great. Install was a little tricky, because the positive battery lug was on top of the starter. So its in between the trunk floor and the starter. But I have none of the above mentioned problems.
My connection was on the bottom. (Highperformance USA)
Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 13 2007, 12:31 PM
I have the one Paul has and it was the one that was NOT goofing up teeth. The other one I am not sure about.
Posted by: jasons Nov 13 2007, 12:38 PM
I have the IMI starter and it works great. Install was a little tricky, because the positive battery lug was on top of the starter. So its in between the trunk floor and the starter. But I have none of the above mentioned problems.
My connection was on the bottom. (Highperformance USA)
I wonder if I put mine in backwards?
IIRC, it seemed like it would mount either way, but the upwards way made more sense somehow. Maybe the +cable didn't like the run? I may have to revisit that.
Posted by: BKLA Nov 13 2007, 02:21 PM
I haven't had a single problem since replacing the flywheel and installing a new bosch starter. Maybe the Hi torque was a bad install, but the new setup sounds sooo much quieter and starts so much quicker.
I am a happy camper now! 
If you use the Hi Torque, a shim is what I'd recommend - not washers.
Posted by: Air_Cooled_Nut Nov 13 2007, 04:07 PM
http://www.icbm.org/cmgallery/index.php?cat=13
Click on the "HPA Starter" album.
I need to update the album to show the metal spacer. It's a piece of scrap I had, cut like the original spacer, and about the thickness of the washers.
Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 13 2007, 06:56 PM
The shim is not required with the one that Paul and I have so far as I could tell.
Posted by: bbrown Nov 14 2007, 10:40 AM
Can you guys provide contact information. Thanks.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Nov 14 2007, 10:47 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PORSCHE-911-MINI-STARTER-ALSO-912-914-930- IMI_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33576QQihZ012QQitemZ220123286627QQrdZ1QQsspagenam
eZWD1V
Posted by: stateofidleness Nov 14 2007, 11:57 AM
great discussion!
not to sound dumb but ive had people tell me my car doesnt start at times because my solenoid "sticks"... is $119 cheap enough security to just replace the entire starter? and that new starter has a new solenoid on it correct (noob question)
the ebay listing starter, does it need any kind of spacers or anything, or is it a direct bolt-on? may consider it
anyone elses thoughts on that starter?
Posted by: PRS914-6 Nov 14 2007, 12:20 PM
As mentioned in the above threads, it's the same one I bought . Bolt in deal, nothing else needed.
Posted by: orange914 Jun 9 2008, 01:03 AM
o.k. you guys hve been running these for awhile now how does the Highperformnance USA
starter work out? good/bad?
so far it sounds like they are good
Posted by: ThinAir Jun 9 2008, 01:18 AM
See http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=75173
I have bought 2 starters from Highperformnance USA. One for my 3.6 and the other for a 383 high compression Chevy in my truck. No problems with either. No goofy noises when cranking, no spacers or washers. Bolt in and go......
Mine came from the same source 2 years ago and has performed wonderfully. I'd purchase the same unit from the same vendor again.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jun 9 2008, 06:35 AM
I use one (the same model that DrEvil and URY use). When I started my motor on a the bench (without plugs, just to build oil pressure) there were no undue sounds. No dragging or clacking. In fact, everything was so smooth I was not sure if the starter even engaged. I was not sure until I walked around to see the fan turning.
Zach
Posted by: Lavanaut Jun 9 2008, 11:31 AM
I put one of the Nippondensos on my car last summer ~ works great, no spacers required.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 9 2008, 12:44 PM
Nippondenso is a good company. That's one of the reasons Honda and Toyota have been so successful. They use good parts to keep their engines going.
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