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Posted by: Bill Meyer Nov 18 2007, 07:44 PM

I'm new to the 914 world and coming from the 911 side the only thing I miss is the power. Otherwise, I actually prefer the new 914 to my Bahama Yellow 67 911S.

Anyway, it's a 73 1.7 that's been recently rebuilt, the only change being a Webcam and Hydraulic lifters, no idea of specs on the cam though.

What about a bigger bore kit on my 1.7. How big can you go on these cases, and will the FI and stock heads starve it for power? I'm not looking for a race motor, just something that scoots around nicely, say 100-125HP.

Whatever I do I absolutely want to retain Fuel injection. That being said, is my best option a later 2.0, and if so, how much reliable HP can be done with FI?

Thanks for any advice,
Bill

oh, and here's a pic of the new girl.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: stateofidleness Nov 18 2007, 08:33 PM

that is a beautiful color!
no help from here on the topic at hand though.. sorry...

but nice car

Posted by: tracks914 Nov 18 2007, 08:48 PM

1.7's are for cruising. For power, real power it will cost you $5 - $10K.
A good 4 cylinder Raby engine will cost about $10K.
A six conversion will cost about $10K.
If you want power be prepared to spend.
If you only want about 100 - 110 hp, then it can be done cheaper.
Just my 2 cents. That's free!

Posted by: gregrobbins Nov 18 2007, 09:40 PM

Nice car!

115-125 HP is realistic with a 2056. 2.0L crank, 96mm pistons, slightly hopped up cam (Raby 9550 suggested) and you can run the factory D-jet. I have a friend with a similar set up running 94mm pistons and he dynos 95 HP at the rear wheels, so should be around 110-115 at the flywheel.

You can use your 1.7L case, but it is advisable that you get 2.0L heads, or have your 1.7L heads modified to the 2.0L configuration.

Posted by: toon1 Nov 18 2007, 09:53 PM

Jake raby did a radio show on building a motor on a budget.

You can do a 100- 125hp for about 2k if you are savy.

with you 1.7 you have 90mm bores and a 66mm stroke crank and small valve heads.

A 2L is 94/71 with 3 intake stud heads, 039 castings.

About the only thing usable from your motor, for the HP you want, is the case.

You might be better off finding a 2L and rebuilding it.

That being said, Jake likes the 1.7 cases better than the 2.0 cases and build his high HP motors with them

There are plenty of options for a higher Hp motor and tons of info in the archives.

For a motor with 100-125hp the stock system will be hard to retain. It can be done but there are alot of adjustments needed to the MPS.

If you went with an aftermarket FI(megasquirt or SDS) system you will have FAR more tunability.

ALso my .02

Posted by: McMark Nov 18 2007, 10:01 PM

Yup, 2056 is your reasonable limit for stock FI. Good power and lots of fun.

Posted by: Bill Meyer Nov 19 2007, 09:04 AM

Thanks for the info!

Will my FI fit 2.0 heads, or for that matter an entire 2.0 motor, or am I better off finding a complete 2.0 FI system as well?

Also, just a thought here, but if I were to simply swap in some 96mm pistons and modify my heads a bit would that be a nice power bump? Should I look for higher compression over stock?

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 19 2007, 09:58 AM

The 96s that firt the standard 1.7 bore are very thin at the top and are known for huge cylinder/head sealing issues...

You can open the heads to the 105mm OD as the 1.8/2.0 heads had (up from 100mm) and then use the 1800 P/C kit with OK results.

But adding more bore without meeting that with coefficient changes in head and cam work will result in a lousy power band, thermal issues and not a well rounded combo..

How much do you have to spend?? I can stretch the dollar where it needs to be for you.

Posted by: toon1 Nov 19 2007, 10:12 AM

You just got a reply from the master himself

Follow his lead and you will skip merrily down engine bliss lane!

Posted by: johannes Nov 19 2007, 11:34 AM

The cheap way (under 2000 $) is to unbolt the 1.7, to sell it, buy a used 2.0 and bolt it in ... ( for 85 - 95 hp)

Second way is to buy a 2056 kit from Jake Raby and spend a few week ends to rebuild your engine.
But you will be in the 4000 range + 1000 if you go carbs ( 105 - 125 hp )
And you will need the carbs to go 125 HP. And you will also need a new exaust because 1.7 and 2.0 are not the same ...

Posted by: Bill Meyer Nov 19 2007, 01:11 PM

Haven't really set a budget or anything, just looking at the options first. Sounds like simply adding new pistons may not be the way to go.

Posted by: nein14 Nov 19 2007, 01:20 PM

Just Turbo Charge it

 turboengpic_JPG.htm ( 602bytes ) Number of downloads: 316

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Nov 19 2007, 01:27 PM

No, a 1911 is not as exciting as a 2056. My first improvement to my 1.7 was to

build it to a 1911. Was it better? Absolutly. But not long after I finished the 1911, I

was buying a 2.0 crank and rods, a cam, P&C's (already had carbs & dizzy). If

you can wait and save your money, I think you will be happier with a 2056. You

can get the parts from distributors, and save a little. But I have been very

impressed by Raby's dedication to R&D and to his customer base. Just my .02

Posted by: johannes Nov 19 2007, 03:12 PM

In the Raby Kit you have 2 new special heads, flyweel, pistons, cylinders, crank ...

Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 19 2007, 03:37 PM

Just put a 1911cc in my car as an interim. H grind cam and 2.0L heads. Tangerine and 40 IDF's so far I can tell you it's not as strong as my old 2.0L was.

Torque makes the world go around a lot quicker.

I'm going to fuss around with the jetting some more but WOT is right around 12.5:1 So I don't see it getting much better.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 19 2007, 03:47 PM

The engine kit is an unassembled engine... More than just a box of parts because everything is balanced, indexed, clearanced and ready to assemble..

Wednesday will be the final day of the 2007 engine kit Program, we'll be freezing sales until December 1 when the new combos are released, prices changed and upgrades are made..

Remember:
Adding larger pistons also requires a coefficient change with heads, cam and etc unles you want to create a misconfiguration..

Misconfigurations ARE the reason why the TIV never blossomed until my efforts were carried out..

Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 19 2007, 03:53 PM

Are my heads in the mail yet?

Posted by: orthobiz Nov 19 2007, 04:04 PM

Since Jack, Joe and others are weighing in on this thread, I'd like to ask the question:

Just how much HP can one extract out of this engine by going to the 1911. I have a 1974 1.8, have a very original car and would like to keep the original engine, original FI and (eventually) rebuild it to be as stock-looking as possible. i.e., no carbs, no megasquirt, etc.

My car is very fun to drive, but the 76 horses leave a little to be desired...Thanks

Paul

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 19 2007, 06:00 PM

Yep, on the way to Len...

The 1911 is a fine combo that accelerates quickly with the right cam and heads and can be a lot of fun.. For the cost going to the 2056 gives much more return on the investment. I have a 140HP 2056 combo- if you have carbs.. (you will be stuck @ 110 HP with stock FI)

Posted by: rdauenhauer Nov 19 2007, 06:37 PM

Ok Ill chime in, The 1.7 in good tune is a zippy little motor but does lack the grunt. I built a 1911 and is currently in my Sunflower yeller 73.
Its got 2.0 heads and exhaust as well as 2.0 induction and FI off a 74.
Never knew what the cam was but its pretty danm strong.
The Stock 2.0 does have torque on it though, and the McMark/Raby 2056 with ceramics sitting on my bench will prolly kick its pants
That is if I dont sell it to pay for this coming holiday season

Bill you should call me

Posted by: brant Nov 19 2007, 09:12 PM

with all of the 1911 guys on this thread
as I contemplate doing a 1911, what is a decent brand of jugs and pistons for a 1911 on a budget?

Posted by: Brando Nov 19 2007, 09:57 PM

The AA Cylinders from Jake, with Keith Black Pistons.

Posted by: toon1 Nov 19 2007, 10:52 PM

Why not get a set of 94's and bore them to 96's and keith black pistons?

Posted by: brant Nov 19 2007, 11:15 PM

so educate me
how much and where would I find those?
not being smart, seriously don't know what it will cost.

brant

Posted by: orange914 Nov 19 2007, 11:44 PM

you should get everyone that is building a 1911 or 2056's input on how much it ended up costing them when its all said and done.

i'm presently putting together a 2056 with my son (my wife is actually helping too!). anyway i shopped and got some great help with these guys here on good lowmile or other parts and think i'll be out of it at around a little over $3500 by the time its dialed in.

you could:

1 pick up a 2.0 core, bdstone914 has one for a good price:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76725&hl=bdstone914

have the heads, crank & rods done. get a cam, oil pump, 96mm pistons (domed type for 8.3:1 fuel injection freindly-ask me how i know!... arhhh!!!). bore your stock 94mm cylinders. two 2.0 tin pieces and misc. 2.0 fuel injection and brain (unless you have a 73')

or

2 if your new to building type IV's and dont want the burdon of asking question after question go thru jake and get a combo package. be ready to spend a few more bucks but i've seen jakes prices to be very reasonable, especially considering the passion and r&d perfection he puts into them.

be ready to spend some time on the m.p.s. and several other stock d-jet f.i. adjustments afterwards either way you may go. it will end up burning pistons running so lean if not

one thing i have learnd about building a type IV is its definately not like putting together a small block chevy. the cost are on the steep side, but i think worth it. i have the same $ into my 390 ford and that gets me 4 x's the h.p.

mike

Posted by: brant Nov 19 2007, 11:51 PM

so I've went through about 8 2.0/4 race motors in 20 years
but I've never dabbled in anything smaller..

I now have a 1.8 core and thought it would be fun to bump it to a 1911

just curious how to do the P's/C's afforably
not looking for 120hp
more like 80hp and a street motor

who sells' KB's?

brant

Posted by: orange914 Nov 19 2007, 11:57 PM

jake and pelican parts i can think of off the top

Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 20 2007, 06:05 AM

Looking at my spread sheet I was at 2200 for my 2098cc Red Neck motor.
Now with LE200 heads it doubled.

There is not a part on this motor I have not done something too.

case full flow and plugged
new high volume full flow oil pump
split duration spiffy cam and lifters
was hopped up dual spring 2.0L heads
97mm Arias pistons
Wasser boxer rods
lightened crank with type 1 rod journals
11 lb flywheel
6 puc solid Kennedy clutch
all balanced to a knats ass including the fan
Full Mallory ignition
was 40 IDF's but will probably go to 44's now
and a Tangerine 1 5/8"

OK so lots of stuff came from the old motor like carbs exhaust ignition.

Posted by: toon1 Nov 20 2007, 09:27 AM

Go to the type4store, thre are prices there to take a look at. 94mm cyl's. can be found used and then bored out.

The 1.8 has a 66mm stroke, so your crank will be a limiting factor.

Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 20 2007, 11:30 AM

we will be offering our OEM bored German cylinders again in 2008, but the price will be hefty to make up for the time we have to expend to get these through the processes..