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Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 30 2007, 12:47 PM

So, I need to order a new throttle cable, which will be run for a carbed motor.

How do I run the cable to the carb link bar? Is there a pulley or channel or something to make the bends easier? What do I need to do to get the leverage to actuate the linkage? Do I need to order a special throttle cable (longer or somehting?)

I'm dumb, pics are helpful.

Zach

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 01:37 PM

I've been wondering the same thing as I'm almost done with my 2056...

-Aaron

Posted by: anderssj Nov 30 2007, 01:40 PM

Hope these help


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Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 01:42 PM

Is that a stock -4 throttle cable? Thanks for the the pics!

-Aaron

Posted by: 911quest Nov 30 2007, 01:43 PM

The stock cable works fine the carb kit should come with a bracket to hold the cable. I have put three or four dual weber setup's on 914 and never had any problems.

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 01:45 PM

I'm not at home, but I'm almost 100% certain that my CB Performance kit did *not* come with a bracket to hold the cable. What kit are you using?

Thanks.

-Aaron

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Nov 30 2007, 01:48 PM

All my stuff is second hand. If I need to order stuff, what should I order?

Wait a second... That looks like a frightfully easy bracket to fabricate from steel I happen to have sitting in the garage. I just need to change how my linkage bar is set up.

Zach

Posted by: anderssj Nov 30 2007, 01:50 PM

Aaron,

Yes, stock length cable--but I think it's a "terry cable" or something I got from Performance Products long, long ago . . . .

The Dell's came with a cast bracket, but I could never get it to work the way I wanted, so about a buck's worth of angle brackets later I was in business. Been like this for over 20 years with no problem . . . .

One more pic


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Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 01:52 PM

I love the DIY aspect of it...

Vacca Rabite,

I'm totally with you on the second hand stuff... I even have (very minimally) used Pagid Orange pads on the car!

-Aaron

Posted by: ruddyboys Nov 30 2007, 01:55 PM

My cable comes out of the fire wall and straight up between the tin and rubber gasket in front of the fan, it has a tight bend by the fire wall and I am always afraid it will bind or break.

Posted by: anderssj Nov 30 2007, 02:27 PM

If I get a chance I'll take a look at my cable routing--IIRC, it comes out of the tube in the firewall, up through a grommet in the cooling tin, then held in place by the two nuts at the top of the bracket.

It may be a couple of days though--gotta do a brake job on son's volvo this PM (meuller knows what I'm talking about)

Posted by: 911quest Nov 30 2007, 02:55 PM

If you get the hex bar kit for a type 4 it comes with the braket that mounts to the top of the case,

Posted by: thesey914 Nov 30 2007, 03:07 PM

This is the nicest home made throttle stop bracket I've seen. The cable runs at a more relaxed route avioding binds.

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 03:29 PM

Man, that is really nice. I may try and replicate that...

I just looked on CB's site and this is pretty much what my kit looks like:

http://cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=538

...no bracket.

-Aaron

Posted by: anderssj Nov 30 2007, 05:15 PM

OK, a couple more pictures courtesy of CB Performance (these came with the Dell kit all those years ago). One shows all of the pieces, the other is the assembly guide with my notes . . . .

There are a number of ways to put the linkage together--I wasn't too inventive back then so I tried to make mine match the picture. Knowing a little more about linkage geometry now, I could probably improve things but it seems to work well enough with no drag or binding, so it's kind of low on the list right now


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Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 30 2007, 05:45 PM

I am looking at the first pic, and I guess I am missing something. Do the Dell'ortos open when you pull UP on the linkage? My Webers open when you push down on the linkage. So these pics with the cable in the front of the motor and the arm pulling up on the carb linkage confuse me a bit. Please clarify.

Posted by: Twystd1 Nov 30 2007, 06:02 PM

Joe,

It depends on where you put the lever on the cross bar.

Under the cross bar it rotates one direction
If ya put it on top of the cross bar. It rotates the opposite direction. just depends on how you set up your carb linkage and which way your carbs are put on. (outside VS inside linkage)

Clayton

Posted by: yeahmag Nov 30 2007, 06:13 PM

Does anybody know who made that nice bracket above? I'd love to get the dimensions off of it...

-Aaron

Posted by: bperry Nov 30 2007, 08:26 PM

True, given the pull direction on the crossbar lever is the same.

The direction of hex bar rotation needed to open the throttle doesn't change
by moving the cross bar lever.

So what's a person to do if you want/need to actually change the rotation
direction of the crossbar? because say you want to keep the lever down low yet
you need to pull forward or backwards and that rotation direction doesn't open
the throttle?

You can change the direction of rotation needed on the crossbar
depending on what you do with the arm/lever on the Carb shafts. The kit
from CB comes with new arms/levers for the shafts.
(you can see them in the middle of the CB kit from the link mentioned earlier)

Depending on how you mount the carb shaft arm either pointing to the center
of the car or twards the outside of the car it will change whether you push down
or pull up on the rod to operate the shaft.
It does not change the direction the shaft rotates but it does change the
direction the crossbar needs to rotate.
I took a few quick photos to show this:



The top photo mounts the arm point towards the center of the engine and
will need the rod to push down on it to open the throttle.
The 2nd photo mounts the arm on the outside and will need the rod to pull up
to open the throttle.

Some folks also mount the cross bar towards the rear of car instead of towards
the front. That also flips the direction of pull on the crossbar lever but does
not change the needed direction of rotation on the crossbar.

There are enough combinations to allow you to pull up/down/forward/backward
on the crossbar lever depending on where/how you mount your carbs and
attach your carb shaft levers.

--- bill

Posted by: bperry Nov 30 2007, 09:04 PM

On the actual throttle cable bracket, it amazes me that very few of the
kits include one. Most of the crossbar linkages leave it up to your imagination
on how to do this. This is true of the CB kit.
Triad's linkage kit includes a very nice cable bracket and they will sell it
to you separately if you just want the bracket.
http://www.triadwestperformance.com/Images/linkage-large.JPG

I have collected many pictures of different folks solutions.
A few have already been shown.
Here are a couple more photos of the many I have including a new one I just
saw which is on page 31 of the latest AA catalog.
Perhaps George would sell this separately from his FI kit.
Here is Georges pulley bracket:

Anybody know who makes this one?

Another rear pull setup.



--- bill

Posted by: KaptKaos Nov 30 2007, 09:04 PM

Awesome! I get it now. Thanks for the info.

Posted by: anderssj Nov 30 2007, 10:17 PM

Bill,

REALLY NICE pictures and explanation! Is there a way to preserve them for posterity?

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Nov 30 2007, 11:58 PM

You know that Triad West makes a kick ass linkage for the four? I had it on my four after I had to replace the other a fwe times. The hex bar sucks on those, and the Triad is sweet. The installation is very easy as well.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 1 2007, 08:41 AM

this one works well for me. 3/8"thick stock. the hole for the cable sheath end is countersunk and the cable is nice and secure. if you get the height of the hole right, it's a nice straight pull. my cable is routed thru the engine tin and and a grommit. maybe a terry cable, can't remember.

k


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Posted by: Gint Dec 1 2007, 11:19 AM

No idea, but that's a picture of the motor in my first 914. I bought the car back after it ate a cam lobe and took that entire dual carb setup and put it on the zambeziteen. I'm running it right now.

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 1 2007, 11:34 AM

that's a very inventive puke can in post #20. judging by the mess, it works very well too.

btw. the linkage i pictured is the Triad unit.

keeping the linkage on the inside arm (pushing down to open the plates) helps to maintain a more verticle aspect on the threaded drop rods.

in case you haven't noticed, the AA kit is comprised of the bracket and a wheel for a thermosat bellow wire. saw that setup in camarillo in 05'.

k

Posted by: Gint Dec 1 2007, 11:36 AM

It was DPO job. Surprisingly enough, it got the job done.

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 1 2007, 12:03 PM

I just got a reply from AA about the bracket:

Aaron,

The bracket kit is 95.00

Thanks,
Steve

-----Original Message-----
Subject: 914 Parts Question

Any chance you guys would sell just the bracket from your new F.I. kit?
That's a pretty trick way to run the throttle cable and I all ready have
the CB Performance linkage and Dellorto carbs.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/uploads/post-1661-1196476240.jpg


Let me know.

Thanks.

-Aaron

Posted by: yeahmag Dec 1 2007, 12:27 PM

Update:

OK. There has been a lot of talk on 914world.com about the bracket. I'd be in line to buy one to retrofit my existing linkage if you guys decide to sell it.

-Aaron

Steve and Janie G wrote:
> The kit includes more than just the bracket that is why it is called the
> linkage kit. Unfortunately you have to purchase the kit to get the bracket.

Posted by: bperry Dec 1 2007, 03:48 PM

I've also noticed that on the CB kit a true vertical geometry can't really be achieved
when using the drop rods on the outside.
The problem is that you can't quite move the crossbar arms over far enough to get
them to line up vertically. The arms tend to hit the air cleaners first.
You can still make it work but it doesn't line up quite as well as when the
rods on the inside.
As I was recently looking over the CB linkages for some sort of throttle bracket,
I noticed that all the photos on CB site show the rods on the inside, except this
one: http://www.cbperformance.com/catalogimages/3270.jpg
If you look closely at this picture from CB, it looks like they are using a heim
joint extension on the crossbar arm.
CB sells them under part#3395 and #3396. One 3395 is included in the
914 kit to space the drop link out to miss the factory carb shaft arm.
If you used 2 more on the hex bar arms, you would pickup additional horizontal
width which should be enough to line up the outside drop rods.
Which looks like what they did in that photo.



--- bill

Posted by: rhodyguy Dec 1 2007, 04:35 PM

note that's a t-1. for it to work in that configuration in our cars, you would have to mount the linkage on the rear of the carbs. for a front linkage mount you could place one spacer on the top heim and one on the bottom if you switch the drops to of the inside holes on the throttle shaft arm. the lever arm on the bar would have to be in the upper position. my drops are not in the absolute verticle plane but much closer than the cb setup pictured. without spacers. if i placed them on the lower heim joints, the bottoms would be pulled in further.

Posted by: purple Feb 19 2008, 10:48 AM

Sorry to resurrect a thread, but those who want to know how to run throttle cable mounts, like myself, enjoy this thread!

I made this out of 1 inch by 1/4 inch aluminum so i could rapidly work the metal the way i wanted it without needing a torch. It works, but it floppy and bendy, but is a good prototype i think.





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Posted by: KaptKaos Feb 19 2008, 11:25 PM

Looking at your bracket, I am wondering if you will get enough travel in the linkage. I just built a new bracket tonight that gave me more range of travel and what a huge difference!

Have someone sit in the car and floor the throttle. So how much range the linkage rotates through. See if it opens the throttles all the way. If not, then back to the drawing board. Which is exactly where I am right now too. I have a few more degrees of rotation that I am missing at the top end that I need to find somehow.

Good luck!

Posted by: rhodyguy Feb 20 2008, 09:17 AM

an helper to ensure full throttle plate opening is great. don't forget to adjust the pedle stop to avoid the linkage being the movement stop and straining the cable.

k

Posted by: purple Feb 20 2008, 01:42 PM

I'll have my girlfriend SLOWLY move it to the 'floor' as i watch the travel. I'll figure something out if it's not enough. that bracket is just a temporary thing for the moment. I can always cut the catheter on the cable slightly. I can also hammer the metal a little more to get me more of a downward pull on the cable. It's temporary so far.

Posted by: Kargeek Feb 20 2008, 02:00 PM

Here's a shot of my bracket...arms pointed to the rear, stock length cable ( terry) and the bracket mounted to the right carb. DH


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Posted by: Elliot Cannon Feb 20 2008, 02:24 PM

My cable bracket was built by Fat Performance. Custome made and very simple to do. They welded four washers to a kinda tripod setup. Works great. What is very important is not to have any flex in the mount. This one does a good job.
Cheers, Elliot

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Feb 20 2008, 02:26 PM

OK lets get some pics on there you dummy!!


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Posted by: spunone Feb 20 2008, 02:27 PM

Ok where's the pics El Yut

Posted by: purple Feb 20 2008, 03:25 PM

isnt it ideal to have the cable pull from the center of the crossbar, that way if it flexes, it flexes at the same rate for both carbs?

I could put it off to the side easily, but i thought that the crossbar flexing would make syncing hard to do right

Posted by: maf914 Feb 20 2008, 03:52 PM

Ideally, yes, but I seriously doubt the forces required to open the throttle plates would result in a measurable difference in the radial displacement at the end linkake arms whether the cable pull arm was in the center or at the end of the crossbar, at least with a substantial cross bar like the CB hex-bar, Triad, or Weltmeister (I have this one and it appears to be the same as the Triad). I bet the throttle cable breaks before you get noticeable flex in the cross bar.

Posted by: purple Feb 20 2008, 04:43 PM

Fair enough! I will straighten that cable plate out and make it out of steel! That is...if the thing gives me enough for full frottle phun!

Posted by: KaptKaos Feb 20 2008, 05:47 PM

You sure you are getting enough rotation on that linkage Elliyut? I only ask because that's sort of how mine looked before I made my newest bracket.

Have someone sit in and floor it and see if you can rotate it more.

Posted by: Kargeek Feb 21 2008, 02:23 AM

[/quote]isnt it ideal to have the cable pull from the center of the crossbar, that way if it flexes, it flexes at the same rate for both carbs?

I could put it off to the side easily, but i thought that the crossbar flexing would make syncing hard to do right


Not really, there is no flex with the crossbar. Early 911's have their crossbar bracket for the cable linkage off to one side. I've run mine for over 20 years - no problem.


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Posted by: purple Feb 21 2008, 11:15 AM

Let me just say what everyone is thinking, kargeek....those air filters are pure secks...