I am starting to firm up my chassis to better handle the
abuse my v8 and 930 will dish out.
I have an unistalled roll cage that I may not use because it
is a street car, so if I don't use it I will go with Engman.
I also have had for 15 years an unopened "GT stiffening kit"
There seems to be a lot of thought that it is not worth the
trouble. Is this true? I can get one of Chris' kits with removable
braces, but is there any reason to mix and match the two or should
I go with only CFR stuff? The only rust I have found on the car is a small
hole on top of the long in the hell hole. I'll start digging in there this
weekend to see how bad it is, but the rest of the longs are in great
shape (california cars = good)
patrick
I like it... all the pieces and then some (meaning extend the long pieces further forward to the jack post).
I think there's a ton of myth behind not liking the factory kit.
It reinforces areas that break. There may be better solutions, but it does reinforce areas that break. If I were building a V-8 car, I would cage it, it just makes the car stronger.
I am building a multipurpose 3.2L widebody track/autocross/street car that will have an 8 point cage, but will not tie to suspension points (no crossing through firewalls). I am on the fence about the GT kit as well. With the cage being a given, how much more will the GT kit add?
I like my own extended version of the GT kit. I extend mine on the outside past the jack point, and on the inside through the firewall and past the center cross-member in front of the seats. I have some pictures somewhere, but not here at work.
There is a real good discussion of the different cross sections that the GT stiffening kit is intended to strengthen HERE ---->http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=15765&st=0
I like the GT kit, but I have added to it in my own way. I also like cages and would not want to run on the track without one. I won't put a cage in a street car.
there is one piece in particular that has been proven to be useless. the others work, more or less ...
in order to understand why the factory GT kit is not the best possible approach out there, all you need to do is look at the history of the factory backed GT 914s ...
they have internal project numbers close to the factory prototypes. meaning, the GT projects were well underway in '69, even before the first production 914 hit the streets.
the GTs were by no means as well engineered as todays factory racecars. the GT stiffening kit was a quick "bandaid". it worked well enough at the time.
38 years later and a lot has since been proven/disproven.
the piece in question is the inner fender plate. it doesn't work because it's welded on the outside of a hollow U shaped channel. the other side of the channel is what holds the upper shock towers in place. welding a support on the outside is useless as there is no connection to the sheetmetal that actually connects to the shock tower.
Andy
Here is the area that shows WHY the GT stiffening kit does not tie into the rear shock tower.
The picture is a section view of the Drivers Side Long as it dead-ends into the front of the Drivers side Rear Shock tower. The GT kit welds to the area of the outer long (inside the wheel well) that is spaced AWAY from the shock tower.
I still feel that the stiffening kit does improve the stiffness of the Longitudinal sections of the unit body. Throwing out the kit because it does not effectively tie in the shock towers seems to be counter productive. Utilizing the kit AND welding the shock tower into the Long seems like it would accomplish the task. Some drawbacks to the GT kit is that it does take space inside the wheel well, and the kit does add several pounds.
I still would add the kit, but do some additional welding to tie things together. Like I said before, I extend the kit FORWARD on BOTH sides of the LONGS.
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Eric the site i going to go down again. I just know it.
The longs are actually attached to the rear shock tower. Only on the verticle and about an inch on top. When I installed the inner long I got burn through from the middle on up of the tower. I even had to turn up the voltage because of the heavier sheet.
Easy way to reinforce that area is drill about a dozen resitance welds out and peel open the box. Weld on top, side (verticle) and the botton.
Check out the photos and you will get an idea of the construction.
Area's in red are single wall and green are double.
Notice the last photo with the C-clamp holding the long to the outer wheelhouse. About a 3/8 gap exists on all 914's that the bottom of the long to floor connection. A thin piece of sheetmetal cover's that gap and does nothing for strength. If you slit the long and fold it upward (like folding hospital corners on bed sheets) and weld it to the connector you will increase strength dramatically.
Also look at the photos inside the shock tower. You will see the double wall at the bottom and single midway on up. Notice the burn through?
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Contd
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The GT kits do help this area out a lot. The outer wheelhouse is subject to (cornering stress's) loads that are very high. The trailing arm perch is simply welded to this part and then bridged (poorly) to the inner console.
The factory reinforcement's should have continued higher and wider on both the inner and outer consoles spreading the loads over a larger area.
Personally I think they should have welded 2x4 box (1/8 inch thick) inside the long and ran it all the way to the hinge pillar.
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Great information everyone. John, that thread you directed us to is
GREAT and Jeff, thanks for the rest of the pictures.
Eric, I had thought the "if you put the inner fenderwell part on you are just
welding to a cover" bit was gospel, but it SURE looks like that is not true.(!)
Looks like I'm gonna use the gt kit and Chris' ear kit. Not sure about the welding
the longs to shock tower, but as long as I'm in there burning holes
in stuff anyway...
I know there are some strong opinions about cages on the street.
If I am willing to have to crawl over/around the bars, is a padded cage
any more dangerous than any tight hardtopped car?
Not trolling, I just really want to know. I had one in a cj5 and it was never
a problem, but that's a very different set of dimensions.
thanks all,
patrick
The ONLY reason I do not prefer to have a cage in a street car is that I don't like how they make a street car look like a "boy racer/ricer".
My opinion has nothing to do with safety. If I was really concerned with safety on a street car, I would get some real bumpers and probably want to do a full cage including door bars (NASCAR style).....
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