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Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:19 PM

I can't believe this turd-bomb sold for $13.1k. I was hoping to get $6.5k for mine, but now, it looks like I may have won the lotto!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220187846667&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:MOTORS:1123

Posted by: Headrage Jan 6 2008, 12:29 PM

Might have been a decent solid conversion. If the rust issues have been dealt with and it's a good running driver, I don't see the 13k sales price as super high.

The vin issue would scare me away though...

Posted by: type47 Jan 6 2008, 12:33 PM

hmmmm, skool me on what is so bad about this car. i see a conversion of a -4 car with a 3.0L ?CIS motor. i'm not trying to be a wise-guy, i just would like to know what you see that i can't.....

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:34 PM

Car looks rough. How can you tell if it is a "decent solid conversion" by looking at those pics? Imagine how much it would've sold for if the owner invested a few hours in a wash/wax/vacuum?

I'm not complaining. If that car sold for that price, I'm going to laugh all the way to the bank when mine sells.

Posted by: bmcwilli Jan 6 2008, 12:34 PM

I can tell you this; if Chuck Miller did all the work, then this is a damn good conversion.


Chuck's worked on my 914 and 944S2. He is a brilliant, quality focused mechanic.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:36 PM

Did you see the condition/quality of the 3.0 (3.2?) 914-6 conversion that sold here a few months ago for $14 ~ $16k? I don't remember the forum members name, but he was in TX or AZ. Had to sell the car for financial reasons. Car was spotless and well-built.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:39 PM

That may be so, however there is no documentation as to this in the ad. Would you pay $13.1k for this car, sight unseen, on the supposition it was built by a master mechanic?

Posted by: kwales Jan 6 2008, 12:41 PM

Why a turd bomb? Somebody is getting a straight, complete, and running 914-6 conversion with fuchs. If that is truly a North Carolina car, it's probably non-rusty everywhere EXCEPT the hell hole. And maybe that issue is taken care of.

Ken

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:44 PM

It is rough. That's what I call a turd-bomb. If the owner didn't have enough sense to take car of the car cosmetically, what didn't he take care of mechanically?

Once again, I'm not complaining. The price of my conversion just shot through the roof!

Posted by: kwales Jan 6 2008, 12:54 PM

I know what's irking Danny....

It's not SHINEY!

Personally, I have seen so many cars with a coat of SHINEY paint covering up a gallon of bondo, I tend to wince when I see that new paint.

Real car restorers that are looking for good a solid car know that a dull finish (patina) means OLD paint and if there is OLD paint and no rust, there isn't a rust problem. And a previous crash repair would have probably showed up as rust.

Sometimes there is satisfaction in knowing you are NOT buying a turd, AND that it WILL buff out.

Ken

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 12:56 PM

It's not just the ("shiney" sic) paint. Look at the details. Car has not been maintained.

And, who is "irked"? I'm doing f-ing backflips! My car just TRIPLED in price!

Posted by: kwales Jan 6 2008, 01:04 PM

Some people put their money into go, rather than show, and a well done running conversion ain't cheap.

And, as I said before, some people buy houses that have good solid foundations and need a quick cleaning, and some people buy houses because they are clean and have nice coats of paint -without looking at the foundation.


Ken

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 01:07 PM

And some people buy homes with solid foundations next door to a nuclear power plant...

Posted by: Rusty Jan 6 2008, 01:12 PM

Cool... safe, cheap power.

We need more nuclear power plants!

-Rusty

P.S. This car could very well have been worth the selling price... cosmetic issues are often the easiest to handle.

Posted by: Rob Ways Jan 6 2008, 01:50 PM

It looks like the buyer dabbles in buying and selling 914s.

I would buy the right 914-6 for that range, but to each his own. I'd want to get a little more for my money.

USD is cheap right now..... so look for CAN and EUR buyers.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 01:57 PM

It's not too cheap for Canadian buyers right now. Not as bad as it was 10 years ago, but the Canadian dollar is back down to the US dollar for a few minutes.

Posted by: smontanaro Jan 6 2008, 03:18 PM

My biggest concern had I been looking at that car was the way the seller responded to several of the questions people had. A couple folks pointed out that the VIN he listed made it a '76 and not a '73. He failed to either correct the VIN or correct the car's year.

And why point everybody at your mechanic? It's not the mechanic's job to be your answer guy. It doesn't matter how friendly he is. Collect the questions, go the mechanic and come back with the answers.

Skip

Posted by: porschecb Jan 6 2008, 03:27 PM

I was the first to bring up the vin question to him. Look at all the questions and look at how he answers them. I would not touch that car with such dumbass answers. The absolute worst discription for a car I ever seen and pulls that kind of cash?

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jan 6 2008, 05:01 PM

A car with a 3.0 conversion might be worth that much but if there was any tampering with vin numbers or misrepresention of ANY numbers it could be a real can of worms. Been there.
Elliot

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Jan 6 2008, 05:46 PM

He does not seem to want to answer the vin Q. Maybe he does know, maybe not.

But I would want to get to the bottom of this before I put some money down.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 05:50 PM

Exactly. He answers questions @ an arms length. Fuzzy, ambiguous pics. So, when you receive the car and it's a rust-bucket, he says "Umm...I didn't know...shoulda asked that question to my mechanic".

Perhaps I should have worded my initial post differently:

Who here, based on the pics/description available, would have paid $13.1k for the car at auction? Do you believe prices are on the way up based on this auction?

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 06:01 PM

Who cares Unless you were the one interested in it it really doesn't matter. As they say, your car is only worth as much as someone will pay for it. His was 13k.

Posted by: stateofidleness Jan 6 2008, 06:09 PM

i dont see the fuel pump bracket in the front so would that rule out a '76? (not sure where the fuel pump is on 73's)

while i agree its not immaculate, i wouldnt call it a turd by any means

cleaner than my car... the pictures arent fuzzy nor ambiguous
if you click "Enlarge this Picture", the pictures are clear and accurate. In the one pic you can clearly see the NON rusted (almost new looking) battery tray so one could assume the rest of that area is equally tended to

admittedly i havent read the Q&A's yet and my ebay purchases are greatly affected by my interaction with the seller so...

what's the engine worth by itself? engine + car + labor... isnt that about right?

EDIT : reading his answers pissed me off... so no... i would not have purchased this car for any dollar amount

Posted by: 914-8 Jan 6 2008, 06:41 PM

what do you want, a hug while he's answering your questions?

Posted by: Headrage Jan 6 2008, 06:48 PM

All I can say is if anyone was serious about buying the car a simple PPI would answer pretty musc any question you may have.

It wouldn't matter to me if the car was an immaculate time capsule with 500 original miles on it, a PPI would still be in order...

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 06:51 PM

Do you know what "arms length" means?

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 06:53 PM

It does matter, as my car is almost ready for the market. I am using this car as a reference point.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 06:54 PM

So gives us the details and some pics of your car.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 06:56 PM

Fuzzy...yes. Those are not clear, sharp pics.
Ambiguous...yes. No pics of the hell-hole, longs, pan, front suspension mounts or front trunk area.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 06:56 PM

Keep checking E-Bay...

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 06:58 PM

You can't even give us a teaser?

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 6 2008, 07:08 PM

No pics yet. '71 conversion w/2.4 "S" motor. MFI. Sideshift. Jet-hot headers.

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 07:11 PM

The MFI is worth 6k alone. Sounds like you have nice car. Can't wait to see it.

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 6 2008, 07:41 PM

6K for MFI seems too much. Granted, my Dad did buy a complete system with 2.2 for under 1K, but 6 seems ridiculous

It should be interesting to see your car Danny . . .

Posted by: Blood red 914-6gt Jan 6 2008, 07:49 PM

That's what a good MFI is going for. I don't really know why, but if you want MFI is guess you have to pay the price. Are you sure your dad's came with MFI or did it come with CIS? MFI is desirable, CIS you can pick up for cheap.

Posted by: 914-8 Jan 7 2008, 01:23 AM

Yes, but you obviously do not.

Posted by: nsr-jamie Jan 7 2008, 07:05 AM

Thats a fair price, would cost more than double that in Japan.....I actually think thats quite a deal. Its got a late model 911 engine in it

Posted by: woobn8r Jan 7 2008, 07:40 AM

I would be careful about using this particular car, or any ONE car as a value guide....
any used vehicle (especially a 30+ yr old one) is unique....mileage, accessories, maintainance, rust etc....but also location. A rust free eastern car is worth more than a western car due to transport costs (probably because someone else paid them).

You should take this car into consideration that, yes, six conversions are bringing more money...and fit your car in the average of where you think it belongs. Don't forget about the "incredible deal" where someone pays way LESS than a car is worth....there are always going to be Highs and lows.

Price it where you feel right, but don't get dissapointed if you go for the "lottery win" and the car does not sell for a while....alot also depends on your situation...need the money, losing parking space, divorce, or couldn't care less and will hold out for the right buyer.

I'm sure you already know this, but, your thread topic is reactionary and may mislead others who will contimplate selling their cars.

Bottom line any car is worth what someone will pay for it.

Good luck in the sale!

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 7 2008, 08:11 AM

FYI - Danny, if you start to read some of the respones of yours and others, you're being rather agressive. I'd let this thread drop if I were you. Especially if you're going to be selling a 914 of any sort anywhere. 914 "forums" are few and talk A LOT about anything for sale. 914 buyers with money are also hard to come by and you don't want to lose any of them by slamming someone elses 914 or other 914 owner ideas etc.

Keep cool dude. I've seen many crash and burn from harsh words or respones. A good friend of mine tells me often "It's all good" and he's right.

Instead of saying something like "Look at this piece of Sh!$T that sold for $$!" it should be "Check out this 914 listing, more good for us as prices continue to swing up."

Make sense?

Posted by: stateofidleness Jan 7 2008, 08:55 AM

that was my first thought exactly... what if it was someone on the board that bought that car? you just called their car a piece of turd... now i know how i get personally when someone talks sh*t about my car so... i can only imagine...

Posted by: Mr.C Jan 7 2008, 09:30 AM

Danny, I know why your selling your car, Your putting a down on this....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150194020367&rd=1

Posted by: jd74914 Jan 7 2008, 10:10 AM

MFI of course; the two are quite simple to tell apart . . . who wants a CIS engine anyways.

Posted by: jaminM3 Jan 7 2008, 10:29 AM

I have been watching the listings on Ebay and nice conversion can go all the way up to $20K. I think this guy lost money with his stand-offish answers and question dodging.

Posted by: boxstr Jan 7 2008, 10:29 AM

$13k is a very good price for a 6 conversion. Yes it may need some tweaking to get it to the new buyers personal liking, but he got all the bits, and he can drive it off into the sunset and not sit and look at it on jackstands in his garage or carport for months or years.
Well bought.
CCL

Posted by: Slider Jan 7 2008, 12:08 PM

I agree its not the cleanest around but it looks like a solid driver.. a little cleaning and detailing it could be a nice car.. not a show car but a nice driver. some can look at my car and say its a turd.. but hey its in process and i dont have a ton of money to throw at it.. but for me its about the passion and the fun of doing the work and enjoying the fruits of your labor. if the guy was nicer and didnt dodge questions like he is. i would have considered it (my wife might have a different thought though..)

Im glad mine runs.. its not a show car but it runs and i can drive it all i want. thats what i wanted a driver..not a rough or a project car. some say its a turd.. whatever thats their opinion. someday it will go up on jackstands and get the restoration it deserves.. and i would have another one to drive.. but until then..i'll drive my Turd!

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 7 2008, 08:33 PM

A contract whereby all parties of the contract are not connected in any way.

squared...

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 7 2008, 08:35 PM

LOL.

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 7 2008, 08:40 PM

Not to worry...I won't be listing it under this username.

Posted by: Root_Werks Jan 7 2008, 09:06 PM

Good for you, but again, be careful. Deception is something you clearly trash and your above statments lend to it in a frightening way. Why "change" your ID with a club just to sell a car? A car you already have described to us and believe me, most everyone will now be watching for.

Not that I care, just trying to lend some advice to you. Good luck with your project and sale. It'll be nice to see some pics when it's all done. I always welcome another 914-6 into the world.

Posted by: 914-8 Jan 7 2008, 10:48 PM

Thus, given that the sale of his car is an arms length transaction, your criticism that "He answers questions @ an arms length" makes no sense and demonstrates your lack of understanding of the term.

Negotiations and discussions in an arms length transaction are done at . . . umm, arms length.

Providing incomplete, inaccurate, or evasive answers to questions is NOT "answering questions @ an arms length."

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 8 2008, 08:10 PM

Oh boy...there's one on every forum!

You buy car from E-Bay seller. Upon delivery, you discover problems. You contact seller. Seller says "you should have spoken to the mechanic as indicated in my ad". Seller accepts no responsibility and tells you to take it up with the mechanic.

Arms-length...

Posted by: Rusty Jan 8 2008, 08:27 PM

Yes, Danny... and I can see who that is in this thread.

Danny, we're way off the point of your original post. You are most likely quite wrong: The car isn't a "turd-bomb". It was probably a very good buy. The seller's attitude likely cost him on the selling price.

As far as eBay sales in general... let the buyer beware. Members on this forum have, for years, advocated the value getting a pre-purchase inspection on any car, even if the seller is just down the block.

If you don't like the deal or don't like the seller, don't buy. Slamming this car, the seller, or the new owner (who may be on these forums)... makes no sense.

Oh, and I'm sure there are many waiting to see your car when it hits eBay. Since you've been quite outspoken about this eBay transaction, I'm sure you'll be as transparent when you put your jalopy up.

-Rusty

P.S. I always take any poster who hides behind a pseudonym with a grain of salt.

Posted by: 914-8 Jan 8 2008, 09:14 PM

Yes, that is an arms length transaction. So what?

You obviously do not understand what the term "arms length" means, and/or you do not know how to appropriately use it in a sentence. Your posts continue to make absolutely no sense.

I'll try to help you one more time. Hopefully you will finally get it:

Definition of arms length: "An arms length transaction involves two independent parties and each is attempting to get the best deal possible.

For example, if your mother is selling her two-year old car to you for $7,000 and the blue book wholesale value is $14,000, that is NOT an arms length transaction. Your mother is giving you a very good deal instead of attempting to get the fair market value of the car."

Thus, a transaction is either arms length (between independent parties/strangers), or it is not arms length (between relatives, friends, etc.). That is ALL "arms length" means. It has NOTHING to do with whether statements in the transaction are complete, misleading, honest, etc. And it has NOTHING to do with the scenario you describe above.

Is that really hard to understand?

Posted by: Rusty Jan 8 2008, 09:19 PM

arm's-length, /ahrms-lengkth/, adjective

the distance at which a man should not be separated from his cool, refreshing malt/hops beverage

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 8 2008, 09:26 PM

Yeah...and I'm sure your birth certificate indicates "Rusty"...

I've had enough. See you kids down at the skate park...

Posted by: Danny_Ocean Jan 8 2008, 09:28 PM

For you? Yes. In this instance, seller remains at an arms-length, hence, "arms length" transaction.

Posted by: Rusty Jan 8 2008, 09:32 PM

My baptismal certificate, library card, etc all do... is that close 'nuff for youz guyz down at the sk8 park?

Danny, most users here have their common names in their signature blocks - or have been around long enough that we know each other.

Try it... come join the rest of us!

Posted by: SGB Jan 8 2008, 10:00 PM

I think this blew WAY UP. Danny was talking $6.5K to sell his car, presumably not a turd-bomb (thats a real scary visual BTW- "DUCK!") and that doesn't seem unreasonable for a decent car. $6.5 is about right for a healthy 4 cyl. 6s have been pulling 15 for awhile. Maybe he did not realize that. His chosen phrasing was a little excited. Then it just went way off on a buncha pointless stuff. I say: STOP THE INSANITY! Lets all rust away together like we are supposed to.