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Posted by: purple Jan 9 2008, 10:05 AM

Greetings Yall!

I have just put the engine back in my teener and started it up (without the exhaust) to make sure I got everything right before I'd do more major re-assembly.

Well, it turns out I created an oil leak where there wasnt one before DOH!

I replaced the drivers side pushrod tube seals with the viton set from auto atlanta. I noticed at that time that I had only 5 'big' o-rings and 11 'small' o-rings. It was enough to do the drivers side tubes but i was hesitant to try the passenger side. Well..this weekend I put the passenger side ones on. I used the small o-rings on the big side of the pushrod tubes because that's all I had

DONT DO THIS

I knew there was going to be a problem when I saw the PO had used silicone sealant around the big o-rings...

It doesnt leak when the engine runs, it does it after the engine has cooled off and the oil still in the rocker box just kinda drips out. This really sucks bad and was wondering if I should get another viton set from AA or what? Should I use some gasket-maker to seal the o-rings? should i re-use the old ones? they werent leaking after all...

the moral of the story: 'while im in there' leads to big f-ups sometimes

Posted by: type47 Jan 9 2008, 11:10 AM

maybe stretching the O-ring caused it to be thinner and that allows oil to seep past.

Posted by: davep Jan 9 2008, 12:57 PM

Now you know why using the wrong part can cost much more than doing it correctly the first time. At least you are forthcoming on your mistake. but not

Posted by: purple Jan 9 2008, 12:59 PM

I guess I have a beef with auto atlanta, I mean the set I got from them was wrong.

Posted by: SLITS Jan 9 2008, 01:11 PM

And now you know why you should have ordered them from Pelican or GPR or Performance or JC Whitney.

I'm sure the good Dr. will be along soon to explain how this would happen.

Posted by: KaptKaos Jan 9 2008, 01:13 PM

I got mine in a set from Pelican. There were actually 16 of the small ones and 8 of the large ones. The large ones (outside) were fine. The small ones (inside) were weird.

There were 2 different types of small ones; black and green. The greens were too big and when I put them in, they would bunch up and push out at some point, guaranteeing a leak. The black ones fit perfectly.

I got them all in a resealing kit, and there was nothing labeled or identified so it was hot or miss. I might have gotten lucky.

If AA doesn't work, try Pelican.

Also, Crusty (and others iirc) recommend lubricating those seals with locktite 545) please confirm the number).

Posted by: Headrage Jan 9 2008, 01:14 PM

First order I ever placed with AA was for Viton seals.

Got a bag of generic o-ring instead...

Posted by: TeenerTim Jan 9 2008, 01:24 PM

No. Using the wrong parts ALWAYS leads to big f-ups.

Lessons I've learned the hard way.
1. Always check your order as soon as you get it. Regardless of who it's from.
2. Always keep the receipt.
3. Call the vender immediately if something looks incorrect.
4. Don't start a project unless you have everything you need.
5. Always ask BEFORE you start if you're not sure.

Posted by: slackin' at work Jan 9 2008, 01:51 PM

I just did this to my car as well.

I bought my seals from Jake. they were green.
I figure if he uses them, they probably don't leak.

don't get me going about my order from AA last week.
I think they got about 50% of the order right.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 9 2008, 02:09 PM

I do NOT use the Viton seals! They are more difficult to install without causing damage that will CREATE a leak!

Looks like it's time to do a video on the PROPER method for doing this and what to use.

Superior materials are no good if they create a compromise with installation... Thats been my experience with the Viton seals....

My engines don't leak a drop- I will tolerate NOTHING in regard to an oil leak.

Posted by: 2-OH! Jan 9 2008, 02:32 PM

Also, once you get the correct seals (Viton works good for me) put them on correctly, prelube them with a very, very small amount of 30wt....Slide in through the head and apply a little pressure and turn the entire tube about a quarter of a turn at the same time as you push into place...This will help prevent the "bunch" effect and keep the metal from nibbling away or pinching at the seal...

After it slips into place check for uniformity of the tiny bit left you can see (both ends)...If it ain't perfectly uniform around the end of the tube, it's gonna' leak...Also make certain it's all the way in and seated...

OH, and be sure the bore in the head and in the case are clean, free of debris and that there is no residue from the last set...Any of those will guarentee a leak...

Try Zims (800-356-2964) for seals...

Have fun...

2-OH!

Posted by: Brando Jan 9 2008, 02:46 PM

Don't half-ass, and use the right parts

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 9 2008, 02:52 PM

The loctite 565 trick works real well for me, especially in the long term above 65K miles...

Posted by: purple Jan 9 2008, 05:50 PM

Mr. Raby....I can quote you saying 'use viton seals' on your bug me video...MOO!

I ordered the greenies from pelican. They are what were in there before. The proper sized ones are on the other side of the engine and they dont leak. I'm just tore up that I futzed with something and made it not work properly. sometimes I wonder if i'm doing more harm than good to this engine...

BTW, Jake, I just got my weber 40 IDF kit from you and it's HOT! nice stuff.

Do I need velocity stacks on these? because there werent any in ze box

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Jan 9 2008, 06:52 PM

Jake uses Loctite, I use motor oil. Both work. There are THREE sizes of seals! Early outer, late outer, and inner. I use Viton o-rings, and have since they came into the market, when Jake was a little kid ................ Sorry, Jake, I couldn't help myownself!

Actually, maybe before he was born!

You have to be VERY careful installing them, and I occasionally have to "help" the seal past the lip of the boss with a pocket screwdriver, along with pushing the tube (or pulling it with a pair of pliers) and twisting it. "Help" it VERY GENTLY!

The Cap'n

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 9 2008, 08:02 PM

And I'll still be doing it when he the Capn' is up stairs chasing young, topless angels around!! (I couldn't resist)

The loctite is one way, oil is the other.. I do race engines with oil or Molybdenum grease so they are easier to clean at tear down or in the paddock if you have an issue..

Loctite is permanent, what I like about it is the fact that its very forgiving and its as slick as KY jelly, maning that you can makemistakes and not ever really have an issue..

And don't laugh, KY has more than one use and I have used it on these O rings.

With this install, preparation and technique is everything. I can instal them dry with just a bit of spit on them for lube and I am sure the Capn can as well....

My best advice is buy several seals and install them over and over to see if they continually tear- if they don't you won't have any leaks.

Posted by: purple Jan 10 2008, 08:26 AM

What's funny is this 'viton' stuff is almost identical to the superior tank o-rings in paintball: neoprene.

My buddy got a pack of neoprene tank o-rings and they are more of a pain to deal with getting on there, but they DONT crumble under very low temps like the poly-u ones do.

Granted, they are a different application, but the neoprene rings lasted 20x longer than the standard poly-u o-rings on CO2 tanks After we went to HPA(high pressure air) there was no looking back.

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 10 2008, 10:35 AM

The material IS superior- no argument there.. But it isn't as pliable at install and that increases the chances of an O ring being pinched and damaged...

Sharp corners on pushrod tube bores are the main cause of damaged seals, the stock seals are so pliable that they'll absorb the install pressure instead of being torn by it..

The material quality does no good if its characteristics make it hard to install... This is mega important when doing the job in the car, layingon your back and hating every minute of it.

Posted by: purple Jan 11 2008, 08:54 AM

last night I pulled the rockers, rods, and tubes...

To check if your junk leaks....push up on the pushrod tubes. I pushed up on mine and they MOVED AROUND! i could displace them 1-3mm in any direction. when i would, a small bead of oil would seep past the seal, and drip on me. the drivers side with the CORRECT size seals...no movement.

The good news is the lifters look in perfect shape!

So, there it is. waiting on parts now... I wish there was a 914 store in every city, then I wouldnt have my project pushed back so often for F'N shipping time!

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 11 2008, 10:39 AM

for small items we can do priority overnight for a very good price!

Posted by: purple Jan 11 2008, 11:08 AM

i was this close to ordering from the tiv store | |

but the 25 dollar minimum is what snagged me. I guess I could have put a new set of tubes on there to pretty it up, but I needed some magnecores for the 1.7/1.8 heads because my clewetts are for the wrong plug locations (2.0) which is a F'n shame, those wires are drop dead gorgeous. They just aren't working for me (slipping off the plugs because they're too far in the tin)

So it was: new tubes when the present ones are fine

or: new wires for ones that arent working right

i like how fast you get stuff to me Jake, and thanks for the baseline jetting on the 40 IDF's they look AWESOME!

Posted by: Jake Raby Jan 11 2008, 11:21 AM

COOL! We are realy getting the store efficient these days...

The actual store order minimum is 10.00, email Rebecca if you ever get in a pinch and need some small part.