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Posted by: Ferg Jan 6 2004, 12:32 PM

Nicest one I've seen for sale in a while, anyone here?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2452815706&category=6430

Posted by: Eric Taylor Jan 6 2004, 12:37 PM

Looks nice, I like the tool kit! Is that the correct speedomoter for the car?
Eric

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 6 2004, 01:19 PM

yep

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 01:41 PM

i -think- 914.6 and 911 toolkits were identical. i also think that speedo looks like the one from my '70 /6 - i'd have to check my big bag 'o VDO tonight to be sure... sctually - it may still be in the car, in which case it'll have to wait longer ...

Posted by: ! Jan 6 2004, 01:42 PM

Nice....bet the reserve is 20K plus,,,,,

Posted by: PatW Jan 6 2004, 01:59 PM

I detect I don't belive that is the orginal speedo for that year car.

Posted by: Ferg Jan 6 2004, 02:09 PM

Speedo Schmeedo, The only flaw I see is that it is yellow!
I shall now prepare for my verbal flogging

Posted by: redshift Jan 6 2004, 02:11 PM

It could have just as well started out as a rusty POS, who knows?

My car is never gonna look like that.


M

Posted by: Part Pricer Jan 6 2004, 02:11 PM

I believe that is the proper speedo for that car. The 914/6s had either a 150 MPH speedo or 250 KPH speedo with the silver button.

Posted by: drew365 Jan 6 2004, 02:17 PM

The speedo looks the same as the one in my car, but the tach is not original so the speedo could have been changed.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 02:28 PM

looks like i remember mine looking - so what am i missing ?

Posted by: JmuRiz Jan 6 2004, 02:44 PM

Sweet car...but would the R offset rims really let you put 225 tires under the stock flares (even w/ a pinched or removed fender lip?

Posted by: PatW Jan 6 2004, 02:45 PM

Ok, tell me. I thought all 70's had a 120mph speedo. Or is it just for a 4cyl..

I know!, I know. I should know!.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 02:47 PM

so them that have 'em say. there was a variety of cast 'pseudo-Fuchs' wheel with the perfect offset to let you do it.. i've never seen a live 911R 7" wheel so i couldn't say for sure. if they're real, they're worth a pile right there ...

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 02:48 PM

6's had 150 mph speedos, even in 1970.

Posted by: Justin Fischer Jan 6 2004, 02:54 PM

Those gauges all look original to me. 150mph speedo, and an 8K Tach w/redline @6500.

Yes - The -4's had 120mph speedo's

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 6 2004, 03:21 PM

That is the sloppy-est seam sealer job I've ever seen in a trunk. That's not right. Nice car but that's not right. The removable plugs look like a painted wade of barf. Nice car though.

Posted by: Part Pricer Jan 6 2004, 03:26 PM

I hadn't noticed that before. I think that car needs to undergo some significant scrutiny.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 03:32 PM

i don't think the 'goo' is much worse than my car - but i am a little disappointed that they painted right over the plastic plugs in the dogbone...

also, FWIW, the turnsignals (F+R) are not original US parts, but changing them to Euro parts was a popular thing to do when the cars were new ...

Posted by: Qarl Jan 6 2004, 03:34 PM

I have seen several early sixes with the seam sealer applied from the factory as so.

I think the red/orange car that Brad recently listed may have also had it.

Posted by: skline Jan 6 2004, 03:38 PM

I think you are all just jealous, the fact that it is a nice car just throws you guys into a tizzy. There isnt one of you out there that would not want this car. As soon as you all sit back and realize it, the better we would all be. I know I would love to have it. It's nicer than mine and it has a 2.4 modified to 2.7 and it comes with the original engine and trans as well. Spare parts for years to come. At 20k it would still be a good deal. There, I put in my 2 cents.

Posted by: redshift Jan 6 2004, 03:39 PM

Early seam jobs seem to be like that, no?

I have had a bunch, later cars not as much, in general.. never thought much about it.

I'll bet it has something to do with counting beans.

Scott, I think this car is a very nice restoration, on what was probably never an abused car. I also know you could never trust the odo unless there are dated records in the book.

It's worth around $20k, real money.


M

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 03:42 PM

i think so too if it's as advertised. so far i see no reason it isn't.

at $20k i'd be time, effort, and money ahead of the game to GIVE away my car and buy this one.

of course, that isn't going to happen ...

Posted by: Britain Smith Jan 6 2004, 04:20 PM

Here is a pic of the seam sealer in the car that I just bought and you mentioned that Brad took a pic of:


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jan 6 2004, 04:24 PM

I too think the car would require a real good look before bidding anything close to $20. I always get a bit uneasy when I read such a glowing description.
One nit to pick, a factory '70 top would have no headliner.

Posted by: redshift Jan 6 2004, 04:36 PM

They made the ad dualistic: It speaks to the modifier, and the collector.. it's only for the modifier guy.

This car is not original, it's not low miles, and it's not advertised very truthfully, if you include the parts of the story they leave out as being dishonest.

It is a nice car, it is being sold by a dealership, and you know they must be fishing.


M

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 6 2004, 04:43 PM

45,000 miles on a 35 year old car -- how few miles must it have to qualify as 'low miles' for you ?

Posted by: redshift Jan 6 2004, 05:02 PM

Just from a collectors point of view, if there isn't a service book that completely documents those 45,000 miles, it may as well have 145,000, or even 1,045,000 miles.

It's restored, and nice, with core spares that came in it. It even has some paperwork that the newbie CW could be proud of.

Lots of *PoP* anyhow!


M

Posted by: vortrex Jan 6 2004, 05:33 PM

ok, the ad is about as pathetic as they come.

BUT..

the car looks very nice. so it sounds like it is a color change though?

I also have to agree with skline 100%!

Posted by: Curvie Roadlover Jan 6 2004, 06:04 PM

The seam seal fiasco in the trunk is horrible. I wouldn't take that car if they GAVE it to me.
Don't bash it too much. It might end up being owned by one of our administrators. Good luck, SL

Posted by: seanery Jan 6 2004, 06:04 PM

well my bid was blown away quickly!

Posted by: Gint Jan 6 2004, 07:34 PM

It's a really nice car. The gauges appear to be just like mne (except purtier). I do beleive Jim is correct about the 70 914/6 targa top not having a headliner. Mine doesn't either.

I'll bet it sells for less that I'll have in my car by the time it hits the road again.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 6 2004, 08:05 PM

I said it is a nice car several times.
But it's no Barrett Jackson piece. Look at the photo of the three plugs in the trunk. The forward most plug has a huge mound of some goop who knows what it is. )(and why they did it!) Then look at the right rear plug. Small thick pile of fudge. then look at the left rear one. almost stock. rust damage in the rear trunk pan is evident. rust damage on the forward side of the transaxle brace is evident. Trunk plugs are painted. this is not something a top resto shop would do. Makes me wonder what the rest of the car looks like up close. It would have taken the same amount of time to repair that correctly. Either the repairer was sick of working on the car and just wanted it done or they didn't know any better, or didn't think about it. Who knows.
I'm speaking from experience. I owned a collision and resto/custom shop for 20 years. I would and have fired employees for work like that. I'm not jelious just critical. I have trouble turning off a life time of training.

I still say it's a nice car.

Posted by: boxstr Jan 6 2004, 10:00 PM

I think this illustrates what a rear trunk access panel should look like. The one on the yellow six is very messy looking.
CCLINCLEANMACHINE


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Posted by: vortrex Jan 6 2004, 11:29 PM

so since the seam sealer is such a major issue, how much to strip it out and replace? I think my tube of 3M sealer cost $20. probably take 2 hrs to scrape out and redo nicely. not sure how much to spot paint, but it couldn't be much.

I think someone could post a mint grasshopper or one of the 914-8's on here and people would pick it apart.

Posted by: ChrisReale Jan 6 2004, 11:34 PM

My stock 2.0-4 has a 150mph speedo. he also makes it seem like the 914-6 was a last attempt to resurect the 914 style. Bullshit, they phased the 6 out to make room for the 2.0-4 . Would probably be a fun drive though

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 6 2004, 11:44 PM

Since I brought it up I feel compelled to respond. I didn't really look the pictures over that close. I think I spent a whole minute looking at the photos. The stuff just jumped out at me. If the builder did something that crude in a place that you can see, what's on the car you can't see. The cost to fix the obvious is not the issue. It's what else is there. Maybe nothing.... When you put together an ad that elaborate and reserve a car for around $ 20,000.00 you shouldn't take photos you need to explain away. I hope he get it. That just brings the value up for the rest of us. Nice car.

Posted by: vortrex Jan 6 2004, 11:54 PM

is it an awful used car salesman ad? of course. I just can't imagine the car is that terrible, full of hidden items. I don't think there is anyone saying it's a show car, looks to be a nice driver. someone obviously spent some money on the car, and it is in laguna, you would *THINK* it's not all junk. of course it is on ebay, so it's probably a rusted out -4 chassis with VIN swap.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 06:18 AM

you know that, i know that, but you were not working at Karmann in 1969 ...

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 06:24 AM

if it's a factory job - and that doesn't look very much worse than the seam sealer job on my very (#443) early Euro /6 or the current later production (but still '70) /6 - and the was subsequently stripped out, we'd be jumping on him for "altering its originality" (as we've already done in the few other places minor 'personalisation' has been done).

Rich-918 seems to be clearly of the opinion that this was done by someone in the aftermarket, in which case he probably has a valid point. i'm of the opinion that it's a factory job and the car has been preserved, factory-installed warts and all.

Posted by: Qarl Jan 7 2004, 08:45 AM

I still believe this is the way it came from the factory as I have seen at least two others with equally crappily applied seam sealer.

So let's sum up what everyone things here...

"This car is a total piece of crap because of some extra goop on the rear access plug".

I don't see much other criticism of the rest of the car (other than possible paint color change) and a questionable speedo.

This car "appears" to be better than 99% of the cars we all own. I know looks can be deceiving, but think about what it DOES have going for it.

I go along with the "jealous" theory. You all are looking for something to nitpick...

Posted by: Qarl Jan 7 2004, 08:46 AM

Oh... and this person (company) has sold lots of Porsches int he past. The ads are all similar.

Look at their feedback.

Posted by: seanery Jan 7 2004, 08:46 AM

I think it's bitchin!

I wish I had more cash, so I could bump the pot a bit

Posted by: redshift Jan 7 2004, 08:52 AM

I nitpick because I know damned well that the reserve won't be met @ $20k.

What should we bet?


M

Posted by: Ferg Jan 7 2004, 09:04 AM

Miles
I don't know if 20k is the reserve or not, but I will bet you a beer that it goes north of 20.

Hell that blue conversion car in the east with the bling bling wheels sold for 17,500. This HAS to be worth 2500 more than that.

Ferg.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 7 2004, 11:42 AM

I said it's a nice car. Just pointed out the obvious... I hope he gets his price.

Posted by: silver six Jan 7 2004, 02:31 PM

This is what I see:

1. sealer: The sealer issue seems hardly here nor there. There's no strong evidence that the sealer is anything but factory. Even if it is not factory, it seems to have been sealed well and there is no current evidence of rust. Fine.

2. milage: There's no strong evidence that the milage has been doctored. The speedo appears original. The owner says the documentation supports the current milage as seen in the odometer. Documentation of milage occurs each time the vehicle changes hands when the previous owner has to attest to the "actual milage" under penalty of state and federal law. Owner further says he "guarantees" that the odometer milage is correct. That "guarantee" gives the buyer insurance regardless of the "as is" waranty claim.

3. looks good: The car generally looks good, paint looks right, no evidence of rust, interior looks correct, engine looks good. No direct evidence that owner is outright lying about the condition of the car.

4.looks can be deceiving: That said, looks can be decieving. All we can know of the car on the internet is what we see in pictures and the claims made by the owner. And since owners have a reason to spin the truth and because people make mistakes, all that we can know with good certainty is what we see in the photos. We don't really know about the car's rust, about the straigntness of the body, the condition of any of the components, including the drivetrain. We don't actually know that the car moves.

5.test drive and ppi: Because looks can be deceiving, buying a $20k car over the internet, essentially, sight unseen, without a ppi or at least a test drive (by you or somebody you know) seems like a mistake to me.

Douglas

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 02:36 PM

current (2004.01.07 1530 EST) bid $18.6k still below reserve ...

Posted by: vortrex Jan 7 2004, 04:49 PM

either the seller is getting lots of email or not interested in answering certian questions. I asked yesterday questions about how the body/chassis was prepped for paint and no reply.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 05:04 PM

along those lines .. the ad says " the owner decided to have it repainted, in Porsche's beautiful Satin Yellow (paint code 29) color "

"Satin Yellow" is not a 1970 color. and it is not Paint Code 29. Paint Code 29 is Canary Yellow, and that is not Canary Yellow (i know for sure because my car is, and it ain't that color ...)

it looks like a beautiful paint job, but if the Karmann plate is showing Code 29 it is a color change car.

Posted by: olav Jan 7 2004, 05:41 PM

The steering wheel has been re-wrapped!!

Man, that' crazy, it's not original leather.

Posted by: scottb Jan 7 2004, 06:45 PM

ok, so ya got me lookin'..... here's a pic of my ass...errr... trunk.... no gunk for what it's worth.

like no gunk muh-self.....

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 06:51 PM

do you have a '70 /6 ? 'cause otherwise, it's apples n oranges ...

Posted by: scottb Jan 7 2004, 06:55 PM

no don't have a 1970/6. so they gunked differently after 1970?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 7 2004, 08:53 PM

it's my personal belief that the /6's are different.
but '70 /6's is all i've owned, so i don't have a lot of data points...
could well be that they were under more pressure to a) make volume by spending less time per car; reduce costs, by not using so much goo per car and c) improve the looks by being neater, as production went along.

do you have a /6 of any year ?

Posted by: hargray2 Jan 7 2004, 10:09 PM

If it was my car, I'd show everyone my goo!

Posted by: redshift Jan 7 2004, 10:16 PM

I think it's just over active goo appliers, I have surely seen a gallon used in an early trunk a couple times..

I think they probably had a hullabaloo at Karmann, and a few tech sessions to arrive at what they look like on later cars..


M

Posted by: SP9146 Jan 8 2004, 12:18 AM

I have a six and the seam sealer does not look like that, it looks like it does in the photos you guys posted. Another thing that jumps out at you is the sloppy reinstallation of the rear trunk wiring harness. I'm with Rich on this, if they cut corners on the easy stuff there's a good chance they took shortcuts on the more important work.

The cost to put this car right if the rest is like the trunk could exceed $10K. If you deduct that from a max value of around $25K, the car would be worth $15K. But it does look nice and if it's just minor stuff that was done incorrectly and that doesn't both you it would make a nice toy.

Posted by: Hawk Jan 8 2004, 06:45 PM

Hey wait. Ive got an original /6 (1970 #2025 on the line) and my trunk has that same sloppy goop job. Must have all been done by Fritz in Stuttgart on the day after Oktoberfest.

Its a damn nice six, minor stuff perfectly corrected to concours if someone wanted. Since when are you guys fixated on CW minutiae?

Posted by: boxstr Jan 8 2004, 06:56 PM

Since a lot of us are members of the 914 Concours Owners Club. And we are stuck inside because of the shitty cold weather outside.
CCLINSNOWEDIN

Posted by: Hawk Jan 8 2004, 08:26 PM

Enjoy the figs and fruits out there. Polish, polish, polish.

Posted by: ! Jan 8 2004, 08:28 PM

Go dig out my engine screen if'n you so bored.....

Posted by: vortrex Jan 12 2004, 10:37 PM

over $20k, reserve not met.

Posted by: ! Jan 12 2004, 10:47 PM

Whatya guess.....25K is the reserve?

Posted by: ArtechnikA Jan 12 2004, 10:51 PM

as long as we're guessing, i was thinking $30k.

alternatively (and i think i just saw this happen the other day on an item we were stalking for J's parents' 25th anniversary...) the reserve is over $50k and the whole listing exercise is merely being done as a cheap appraisal ...

Posted by: boxstr Jan 13 2004, 05:28 PM

Took some pics of a rear trunk on an unmolested 1970 914-6. So I guess there is nothing abnormal about the 914-6 on ebay.
CCLINFACTORY6


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Posted by: boxstr Jan 13 2004, 05:29 PM

Pic 2


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Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jan 13 2004, 05:34 PM

I want royalties! Unless someone sees the pic and wants to buy the car, then I owe you a commission!

Posted by: ! Jan 13 2004, 06:13 PM

Hans hadf a little too much Gluwein at lunch....prolly accounts for the 1/2 difference on the fenders as well....

Posted by: vortrex Jan 13 2004, 06:53 PM

looks like they finger painted that stuff on.

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 07:23 PM

Refer to my post on the Karmann guys building Paul Woodbury's car.





M

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 13 2004, 09:46 PM

Why was my post deleted?

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 09:51 PM

Something happend to a couple of mine also..


M

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 13 2004, 09:55 PM

Basically stated that the story was crap (the six was a last ditch effort to save the lowly 914), and that all the sales retoric made me want to grab my wallet and run for the hills.

Nice ride though...

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 10:07 PM

Propaganda makes me cringe too, a nice piece speaks for itself.

My 40th post!


M

Posted by: seanery Jan 14 2004, 10:13 AM

As admin, we have the capability to delete posts (and so do you all-for your posts). I'm not sure who deleted it, but it was not me.

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 06:46 PM

He who smelt it, dealt it..


M

Posted by: anthony Jan 20 2004, 08:11 PM

Did anyone actually go look at the yellow ebay six in person? Anyone find out the reserve?