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Posted by: Qarl Jan 11 2004, 12:29 AM

Our fearless leader!


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Posted by: redshift Jan 11 2004, 12:35 AM

One small step for man, one GIANT leap for mankind.

Being a conservative... I just have to laugh at that retarded freak. If I was a liberal, I'd have to laugh at that retarded freak. I like the war, the spending thing is OUT TO FUGGIN LUNCH.

I wish he would go to Mars on his own dime.

My Presidential vote is going to be a write in, I guess I can't use the multiple choice computer voting system.

Glad to make it more political,

Miles

Posted by: Bruce Allert Jan 11 2004, 01:07 AM

Damn! I was expecting to see Ralph or Alice
"to da moon Alice!"

.........b

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 11 2004, 12:20 PM

Thats where Bush should go, on a one way ticket!

Geoff

Posted by: redshift Jan 11 2004, 12:30 PM

Geoff, we are politically diametric, but I would chip in for gas.

I am thinking about writing in 'Binko, the Wonder Monkey'.


M

Posted by: scottb Jan 11 2004, 03:46 PM

i vote for most people in the ® column but bush has the mental capacity of jello. however, i will always support any space endeavor as i am a techno/science weinee....

the pics from mars are as good a porn to a science dweeb (insert wanking smily)

Posted by: redshift Jan 11 2004, 03:48 PM

So, therefore, the tax prayers should provide porn for geeks?

I think not, Sir!


M

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 11 2004, 04:10 PM

I'm all for spending money on science and space exploration, but not oil exploitation. Bush is not an idiot. (He is a fool) A Canadain show, The Fifth Estate, showed a money trail from Bin Ladden Construction to both Bush's political campains, and also contract for rebuilding the "bombed barracks" in 98 and and and. It was just one hour of sickening revelation after another up to and including cover ups for 9/11.
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/index.html
Did you know that after all flights were grounded in the North America(Sept 11, 12&13), 13 planes took off, unchecked and with the approval of Bush. Lear Jets to 747's. Every one of them left US soil and went directly to Saudi Arabia, America's friends?
Just when you think you can trust your government.

Read on and enjoy what people outsuide the US can see on uncensored TV.

Posted by: redshift Jan 11 2004, 04:15 PM

hey hey... let's stay out of rhetoric... that is rediculous, and people don't believe that here.

I am just sick of the government being run like every taxpayer is a billionaire, and getting richer.

Conspiracy.. I love Moslems..


M

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 11 2004, 04:20 PM

I love everyone and every race , it's just big bussiness, greed and goverments that are too powerfull for their own good that I don't trust.
Read the article though, it's good reading, even for Bush supporters.

Posted by: scottb Jan 11 2004, 06:11 PM

and why should the government not provide items for my dweeby wanking pleasure?

they have been giving halliburton a good slobbering, shouldn't i be given a little eye candy?

(tongue in cheek, inuendo, sarcasm, etc... fully intended. though i fully expect someone to be angry!!!! )

Posted by: redshift Jan 11 2004, 06:31 PM

Look, the government's job is to protect us from radical Moslems They need some practice.

The people's job is to work hard and keep the government from dictating how industry works, and taking all the damn money to search for gay house cats on Uranus.

People need to get some self respect and vote NO with their money, from 'Plop Culture'(tm Me).

Privatized space exploration... if it can't pay for itself, it's not viable.. we know how to fly by now. Dick Rutan has a private venture about to go astro..


M

Posted by: vsg914 Jan 11 2004, 06:41 PM

Hey everyone, we in the USA have 10 months of political rhetoric to look forward to, and 4 years of who knows what with who knows whom. I would hope we can keep it off this site. My political views are mine, and yours are yours. There are a lot of things in this world that piss me off, but I try to keep political opinions to myself and let my vote do my talking for me. If I do want to talk politics, I will go to an appropiate place to do so. Not here! With all due respect to our 914 club members from the rest of the world, move to the US, become a citizen, cast your vote, or please keep your opinions, for your leaders, and your government.

Thanks for your time.

Posted by: scottb Jan 11 2004, 06:49 PM

i cring at your use of smiley's......

I'M NOT WORTHY!!!!!!

Posted by: Steve Thacker Jan 12 2004, 11:39 AM

Personally,...I know that our government are as crooked as any on the planet,...nuff said on that.

To get back on / OT,...as far as this Moon / Mars crap,..I say its just that. I'm sick and tired of our government making choices with OUR money. What purpose does it serve for us to inhabit on two lifeless lands? Looking for life they say,...OK what if there is other life? If they (other species) have half a brain they see that we are a species that are still too barbaric and continue to kill each other for nothing. If I was them I would steer clear of this screwed up planet and look elsewhere for "real" intelligent life. Our government looking for life elsewhere is a farce , our world leaders only have their personal greed or interests in mind. If we found others out there and they were accessible to our world leaders, they would just use the new shared or stolen technology to make war or control another country or put cash in their own pockets. Our governement would use the ole " national security" standby and lock out everyone from that knowledge. Space exploration is a dead end money pit, sort of like owning a boat. I see no purpose from planet hopping. So what if they do find life on Mars, what does that prove? Lets use all this projected cash and fix the real problems in this country. Use it to stimulate the downed economy (jobs), Pay on the national debt (#1), feed and care for our "future" the (children). Plus haven't our hardworking NASA people, running on shoestring budgets lost enough lives for the greed of the rich and powerful?

No conspiracy theory needed here folks, just the facts and some good ole common sense will do.
Rant off.......

Posted by: maf914 Jan 12 2004, 11:47 AM

Qarl, Now look at what you have done... You old dog!

Mike

Posted by: need4speed Jan 12 2004, 12:52 PM

Heh, I wish they WOULD run the government like every taxpayer was a billionaire.

If that were the case then:
1. I would have gotten a tax cut.
2. I'd be able to hire some third-world 8-year-old to do my job for me at 1/10th the cost.
3. I'd get a $500,000 government handout to do #2.
4. My reps would actually READ my letters, and vote accordingly, instead of shitcanning them and giggling.
5. Cops wouldn't hassle me as I drove down the expressway at 120 mph in my Porsche.
6. I'd own a Porsche.

Now, as an employee of a government contractor who builds rockets - I'm all for space exploration, and even a little war, when necessary (Iraq wasn't necessary - Afghanistan WAS). But Bush has absolutely NO intention on following through with this scam.

Notice that the plan is to gut every NASA project not related to the "pissing contest" of going to the moon and mars. That means the ISS, and the Shuttle, probably any research satellites or probes - especially anthing that might confirm global warming or spot pollution or climate change patterns.
Once all those projects are scrapped - we'll probably be about $10 Billion and halfway through the Moon project when it's killed because we've hit the limit on our national credit card. Along with Social Security and Medicare. And public education. And roads. But we'll be FORCED to spend on defense, because, of course, it's the one thing that's really, really necessary. Unless we want to learn to speak Arabic. Or Canadian.

And as far as discussing politics on this board. I think it's inevitable. And I, for one, welcome it. As long as it's always labeled OT, and those who don't care for such noise steer clear of the OT discussions.

Posted by: Hawktel Jan 12 2004, 01:32 PM

I hate it when people talk about how they don't like or see the benifits of Space Exploration.

Conservative estimates place US tax payer return at around 7-12 dollars on every buck spend by Nasa.

The main return we get from the space exploration program is Technology. Nearly every Technological advance in the last 40 years can be tied to Nasa, in some way.

When you got up this morning and put on your Scratch Resistant Glasses, You just benifited from the Space Program.

When you used the Dust buster to clean up your spilled Cheerio's, you benifited from Space Travel.

When you called you Father, and asked him how he was feeling from his outpatient Laser Angioplasty, Your father benifited from space travel.

When you called him you benifited from Space travel cause your Cell Phone uses Microlasers in the communications grid.

When you drove the teener over to the Golf Course, You cornered better cause Nasa developement in tires. And then your damned Golf Ball flew farther cause of Nasa.

And then the Flat screen your reading this on was based off NASA research.

So basically your advocating that we don't expand a critical agency that returns between 7-12 dollars on every one spent by it.

And then your Common Sence tells you Planet Hopping is a Dead End. On a Planet that has 6.3 billion population, thats growing at a rate thats unsustainable.

So your Common sence tells you that mass starvation, Draconian population control, and limited resources, is preferable to expanding in out onto other planetary bodies.

Please keep your narrow minded short sighted Luddite views to yourself.

Posted by: Qarl Jan 12 2004, 02:31 PM

Wow! I spend a few minutes photoshopping a funny picture and stir up all of this political crap.

Hooray for free speech!

Posted by: redshift Jan 12 2004, 03:26 PM

I certainly don't see myself as a ludite, I certainly do see myself fucked but taxes, if someone wants to go to Mars, let them foot the bill.


M

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 12 2004, 04:02 PM

I'm sorry if I offended someone with my comments but one thing you will have to come to grips with is that in this new global economy and this cool new thing called the Internet you will have to realize that sooner or later we will all be one.
If things your government does has an effect on my life and my lifestyle, I WILL COMMENT ON IT. What your leaders do has a serious effect on other countries besides your own.
As for OT items, they are marked OT or "Off Topic" for you non acronym literate. If you only want to read 914 stuff, don't read OT stuff.
This site rocks and one of the things I like to read and comment on is the OT threads. Most of them are harmless and only serve to open the minds of others to something outside their own little world. (Alfred post exempted although he is somewhat entiled to free speech as long as he keeps the racist crap out of it)
None of what I post is meant to be spiteful, harmfull or offensive to anyone but it did offend, I appologize.
Doug

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 12 2004, 04:06 PM

I could start up a Canadian language course online, eh!

Posted by: Malmz Jan 13 2004, 12:08 AM

Hey, if you are going to start a Moon Topic at least we can stay on track...

http://www.rathergood.com/moon_song/

sm

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 04:43 AM

Because it is soooo clooose tooo ussss.



M

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM

so, does that mean every american who has a opinion on, let's say, iraq can only speak out about saddam and his country AFTER they became a iraqi citizen and actually moved there?

is it just me or does that sound a bit over the top?
Andy

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 13 2004, 03:47 PM

Not over the top, just one .................................... opinion. We all have them and we all give them at one time or another. It's something I like to call freedom of speech. (Hey where's the Canadian flag?)
That's what's so great about this type of thread. It gets people talking and thinking about new things too and not worrying about the little ticking sound that doesn't sound like a valve but is keeping you up at night. (especially after blowing that shift 6K while showing off to the blond on the corner going from 1st to 2nd)

Posted by: Hawktel Jan 13 2004, 03:56 PM

Well yes it is Andy. Thats Americanism at the top of its game.

In general though, I try not to comment on whats a clearly internal issue. Like if Tony Blair takes a dive over his support of some of the Bush administration's polies, I'd not comment on who I think should take over as prime minister. As for a potential Moon Shot, and Mars Shot, would have a effect on the world, and so, you None American's should certainly voice a opionion on it IMHO.

I'm certain any plan of going to the moon will include a International Space Station stop as well. Should be very interesting.

Earlier though,

I apologize for the Narrow Minded Luddites should keep their mouths shut. I should have said, you Narrow Minded Luddites should continue to express your opionions, so we regular people can see your lack of common sence and short sightedness. I was caught up in the moment. My bad.

Posted by: vsg914 Jan 13 2004, 05:57 PM

Tracks, you certainly did not offend me. I fear you are correct when you state "in this new global economy and this cool new thing called the Internet you will have to realize that sooner or later we will all be one". I just dread it happening. Sounds like a "one world government".



Andy, Not over the top. We are all entitled to our own opinion, and I value that right. I apoligize for stating mine in such an adamant fashion, however, I won't talk about Iraq here either . I served my country in the southeast asia war in the 60's. I didn't approve of what was happening then and I don't now, but I kept my mouth shut and did my duty. I will continue to do so. I will talk with my vote.


Tracks and Hawktel, Thanks for the reference that what the US does affects the rest of the world. You are correct.

Karl, it's all your fault again

Posted by: Qarl Jan 13 2004, 06:09 PM

I am sorry. I guess I'll refrain from bringing up WMD, Israel, Korea, the international space station, or Alfred.


Ummm... Malmz... explain yourself... how the heck did you come across that web site? Very weird and annoying....

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 06:43 PM

uhoh... maybe me.


M

Posted by: Malmz Jan 13 2004, 08:04 PM

Somebody at work showed me... Appearantly they sell shirts and mugs with the Moon guys on it too... I Like It! I thought it would calm down the political thread before the religious thread started...

If you like that, you will probably like this...

http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf

sm

Posted by: Qarl Jan 13 2004, 08:08 PM

Yep... my dog really liked it.... honest.

He was staring at me like.... WTF?!!!!

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 13 2004, 08:52 PM

My dog started to bark at it.

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 13 2004, 09:05 PM

I really hate to stir the pot oh wait yes I do like to stir the pot , but I think we already do have one world government, yours.
That is meant in the nicest way by the way, it's just that no other world power has had the power that the US has had since the downfall of the Soviet Union. Not even Nazi Germany had the ability to do what the US can do now. The US is strong (just watching the Gulf War was enough for the Soviets to throw in the towel) and can what ever they like. That is why they are such a target for terrorism. When you are rich powerful and the envy of your neighbours, you are a target just like Micheal Jackson.
But enough political retoric for one thread, my dog wants me to bring back the singing horses.

I'm just glad we can talk about this open and honest.

Posted by: redshift Jan 13 2004, 09:34 PM

M

Posted by: Qarl Jan 13 2004, 11:10 PM

F U Malmz!!

I hear voices in my head now...

BOOM shhshh Boom Boom
BOOM shh shh Boom Boom

Ummmmmmmmmmm Bohmmmmmmmmm
Ummmmmmmmmmm Bohmmmmmmmmm

Ooooooo uuuuuuuu ooooooooo eeee ooooooo
Ooooooo uuuuuuuu ooooooooo eeee ooooooo

ooooooooooooooo shuhmahwawahhhh
ooooooooooooooo shuhmahwawahhhh

Posted by: Malmz Jan 14 2004, 12:07 AM

LOL. I normally have the Moon Song running through my head, so it's just "Pay it Forward Payback"...

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 01:49 AM

Dood, I bust out singing it, for self-defense.... or at least.. an insanity plea.




M

Posted by: need4speed Jan 14 2004, 12:44 PM

Actually, that's one of the central tenents of Freedom of Speech and why it's SO DAMN IMPORTANT. It's probably the most important concept of our entire civilization.

Freedom of speech is like Free Market Economics - for ideas. Anybody should be allowed to spew out any idea they like. (the problem with this is - apparently, most people are gullible, and believe everything they hear on Fox News). Through open debate, and basic logic and reasoning, bad ideas are discredited. Openly. And it becomes a matter of public record. In theory, bad ideas, once discredited, should go away for ever. But if they do not, open debate and reason can simply do it again. (You see this with ideas like racism, fascism, and Reaganomics.)

But every time Freedom of Speech is abridged, (like on certain editorial news talk shows where they cut off speakers with whom they disagree for a "commercial break" - or interrupt them, or get belligerent with them, or like when politicians stonewall or claim "Executive Privilege" or "National Security", or "Free Speech Zones"), then Open Debate doesn't really happen. And bad ideas are allowed to survive and proliferate.

Posted by: Qarl Jan 14 2004, 03:48 PM

Happy Moon Day Malmz!


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 06:03 PM

lol Karl.. that's funny... I wish it sang..

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Politics: The league is more important than the team, try to fucking remember that.

The teams are shit, period.


M

Posted by: Qarl Jan 14 2004, 06:36 PM

Yep... a little bored at work today.. not feeling well... so I whipped out photoshop and searched for some pictures... and voila... slightly revised Moon picture!

That moon song is annoying!!!

I tried to find an e-mail for the creators to send them my picture, but no luck!

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 06:41 PM

Isn't there an email addy in the animation...

I'll investigate, later... maybe... if I remmbebbere,,,s;lkdjshghag

What?


M

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 14 2004, 07:36 PM

That moon song is terrible! haha but I liked the horses singing.
I like NASA and the stuff they do but this trip to the MOON and onto Mars is too much. We have been to the moon and that is the reason for the space station. Another ploy for votes....very sad. The Bush dynasty hopefully will end soon.

Geoff

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 07:46 PM

Hey, I have an idea Geoff. President, I'll flip you for it. Loser is VP.

Why would anyone vote for either party?

WHY? WHY!? They are idiots, and liars, every one of them..


M

Posted by: Hawktel Jan 14 2004, 08:18 PM

I'm a Registered Republican so I can vote in the 1 of the Primary's. I could have easily been Democrat to vote for them.

If there was a Strip Bars, Guns and Porsche party, I'd join them. Our Caucus could have a Strip Bar/Shop/Shooting range Convention/Party. Safty first, no shooting after your first beer, No lift work or welding after your second.

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 14 2004, 09:12 PM

Miles, you can be President. That way they will shoot you first!

Geoff

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 09:16 PM

Great, run from manifest destiny.... see if I care.




M

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jan 14 2004, 09:23 PM

Do you think the prospect of a big NASA budget boost for a Mars program will get enough votes in Florida so hanging chads won't matter this time?

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 10:01 PM

Nope.

I wish they could all fail.. I wish there was an election, and noone showed up. I wish there was a tax year, where noone paid.

When is someone going to start thinking about reality?

If I don't think of myself, who will. If I think only of myself, what am I?


M

Posted by: Bleyseng Jan 14 2004, 10:03 PM

Big NASA pay boost, who are you kidding? All the TV shows are talking about how this moon/mars dog and pony show are going to rob the other NASA programs of money. Its all a voter attention stunt.

Geoff

Posted by: redshift Jan 14 2004, 10:06 PM

NASA is a dog, and pony show..

I think the 914 club should throw together a space program.

Privatize space.


M

Posted by: Porsche Rescue Jan 14 2004, 10:22 PM

Geoff,
That's my point. It's all about votes. Where is the space program.....Florida, Texas, California. Making the solar system safe for Halliburton, one planet at a time.

Posted by: redshift Jan 15 2004, 12:45 AM

If it's not Haliburton, it's someone else.

We could start an uprising, right here... take it with you, everywhere... you just have to drop the party line.

Is that so hard to understand?

-shrug-

It sounds like most of you are upset because your team didn't win, I am pissed off because I don't like the game.


M

Posted by: vsg914 Jan 15 2004, 08:07 AM

I hesitate to write this, but, for once I think I agree with miles

We can bitch and moan all we want. They are going to do it anyway.

Tracks, don't stir the pot, smoke it!!!!

Posted by: redshift Jan 15 2004, 08:12 AM

Uhoh, seek professional help.

With some luck, you may be able to counter the effects of the blue pill, by taking 2 red pills, and repeating,"There's no place like the Matrix" three times, while banging your head on a curb.

Jesus, I must have been up all night unposting... -1956!


M

Posted by: PatW Jan 15 2004, 09:28 AM

War is about fucking your enemies. Politics is about fucking your friends..

James Carville.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 15 2004, 09:50 AM

I've heard rumors that we have one......

Posted by: Qarl Jan 15 2004, 10:42 AM

Hence the Bush/Cheney 2004 banner on the U.S. flag in the first photo I doctored!

What's going to happen is we're going to allocate 1.5 billion dollars towards this... then run over budget by another 3 billion dollars and some future President is going to shitcan it and mothball everything. Then we will be no further along that we are now...

Posted by: need4speed Jan 15 2004, 10:51 AM

I like that.

I really, really like that.

Posted by: Jenny Jan 15 2004, 12:28 PM

http://www.planetaryinvestments.com/

Jen

Posted by: VegasRacer Jan 15 2004, 12:40 PM

NASA camera on Mars

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 16 2004, 01:23 AM

Honestly I do not think about politics much (and do not really think this is the forum for political discussion, but Karl started it ). I am overall a huge supporter of space exploration and advanced aerospace research programs as there is no question that the technology does trickle down to the commercial world.

What I do worry about is that our government has developed this habit of essentially "living off credit cards" in the last couple of decades. Democrats and Republicans are both guilty of uncontrolled spending and of course Bush has continued the trend. We now have an approximately $7.5 trillion dollar debt which will hit $10-12T in the next decade if things do not change radically.

That is $7,500,000,000,000.00

In other words something like $50,000 for every working adult in the country. How in the F* are we going to pay that off? We are basically borrowing right now just to pay the interest every year (which we aren't really doing anyway). Social security is going to go "upside down" in about 8-10 years wherein there is not enough money left in the system to actually pay out the checks that are due. Guess who will make up the difference???

It is basically like borrowing from your Visa card to pay the minimum payment on your Mastercard. And then the next month you do the opposite. Meanwhile the interest is racking up every day. How long can you keep that up? It has to stop...I don't know the answers (duh) but this shit needs to end SOON before our kids and grandkids futures' are jeopardized.

OK...that's my rant, back to 914 content or some close facsimile....

Posted by: campbellcj Jan 16 2004, 01:52 AM

FWIW If anyone is interested in reading some interesting statements with minimal "spin factor" from the guy (David Walker) who is basically in charge of accounting for our federal government for the next ten years, here you go --

Original speech (PDF; requires Acrobat reader)
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/npc917.pdf

Slides that go with speech (view w/ any browser)
http://www.gao.gov/cghome/npc917/npc.html

It is horrifying stuff. He basically admits that every child born in the US today immediately "inhereits" a $26,000 debt on behalf of Uncle Sam, that will have to be repaid someday, somehow.

Again I am not a very political person overall, but I would urge everyone to read this paper and perhaps some of the other info on the www.gao.gov site and keep thinking and talking about the problem. I know I was not aware of most of this until very recently...

Posted by: redshift Jan 16 2004, 07:24 AM

Seems like 'Teener Boppers' (that's us) have a pulse. We don't have to be constant Politicos here, but it's nice to know most of us have considered the outcomes, it's the first step to recovery.

There is a much better way to do things.


M

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 16 2004, 08:02 AM

a 700% to 1200% return on every dollar spent is absurd in my book. what's that? the kenneth lay buy and sell plan? with those kind of numbers and bean counting an increase in spending to the tune of $750 bil would wipe out the debt. ha, ha. trickle down sure work during big ron's admin. i'm 1/3 of the way through The Price of Loyalty by Ron Suskind. we are fucked, our children are fucked, the grandkids too. men to mars, MEN TO MARS!!! from a permanent base on the MOON! ha ha ha ha. too funny, so sad.

kevin

Posted by: redshift Jan 16 2004, 08:14 AM

Trickle down only works in private industry, the Govt. can't trickle down, they don't base their operations on profits.

If you think 'trickle down' doesn't work, imagine all the people without jobs, that used to have good ones.

No profits, no jobs. More profits, more jobs.. that is trickle down.... how many accountants can your company afford?

I should have started this with, "Yes, but.."

When I have no cash, the car sits, when I have cash, Dave Ellison gets some, and Otto gets some, and...


M

Posted by: Neal Jan 16 2004, 12:28 PM

We started 2000 with a surplus, Gallager the comedian posed a great question, why can't we just refuse to pay the debt after all it's our debt.

Posted by: tracks914 Jan 16 2004, 07:48 PM

Read this and find out how we get our pot...from our brewey's.
That's the Canadian way http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&call_pageid=971358637177&c=Article&cid=1074121810963