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Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 11 2008, 08:58 PM

Okay, folks, could use some help here. I'm taking a look at this car on Thursday. It looks pretty good in the photos, but being new to 914s, I'd love it if the folks here could let me know if you see anything I should be worried about.

I've posted an entire set of photos to Flickr here:

http://flickr.com/photos/jeffreysmith/sets/72157604097717696/

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Mar 11 2008, 09:07 PM

Do you want anyone to come look at it with you? It looks nice from the pictures.

Never mind. I think you have that covered. From the pics it looks like a good 914. Buy it and come out on Saturday

Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 11 2008, 09:08 PM

Tell us some of the specifics about the car. Looks pretty nice. Assume it's a '73.

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 11 2008, 09:39 PM

So, here's what I know.

It's a three-owner 1973 2.0L and shows 42K miles on the odometer. The owner cannot verify the low mileage, so my guess is either that it's rolled once or had the speedo replaced.

A tuneup was done about 500 miles ago that included a valve adjustment, valve cover gasket, plugs, caps, wires, all belts, most hoses, brakes (pads, calipers, lines) and wheel bearings. Owner has documentation for the tune-up, but that's about it.

Body appears to be in good but not perfect shape. I don't see any serious rust in the photos, and the owner claims no bad runs anywhere. He said that he removed the rocker panels, too, and found no rust. This was about 6 months ago, if I remember what he said correctly.

Rear driver's side fender is missing the back portion of the Porsche decal. Owner is not sure if that panel was resprayed, but claims there is no overspray indicating that it was repainted. He has another set of Porsche decals.

The vinyl on the sails is peeling on both sides. Owner has replacement vinyl he is selling with the car.

Car is at the shop right now getting a speedo gasket replaced. There was a small leak on the back, apparently.

That's about it. I've exchanged emails with the owner and talked to him on the phone. Seems like a good guy, whatever that is worth.

Posted by: GeorgeRud Mar 11 2008, 09:48 PM

Looks nice, but drive it and check under the battery area for the dreaded hellhole rust.

Posted by: cobra94563 Mar 11 2008, 11:24 PM

Looks very nice from the pics.

Posted by: roadster fan Mar 11 2008, 11:25 PM

Looks nice, but I would look very carefully at the area at the bottom of the windshield (cowl) pictured as there could be a problem there based on the photo.

I would try to get an explanation as to why the graphic is missing from the driver's side rear quarter as the rest of the graphics look good. Examine hidden areas very carefully if the price seems too good to be true.

Hope it works out for you, "looks" like a nice car.

Jim

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 12 2008, 12:00 AM

What exactly concerns you? I see a scratch, but is there something else?

Posted by: 73Phoenix20 Mar 12 2008, 09:14 AM

A few minor details...

Wrong shift boot and knob ... looks like it came out of a 915...

Wrong Speakers...

Fuchs are a question mark.... real ones are anodized (or completely polished)... fakes are painted as you see these, BUT... perhaps a PO painted these to resemble the five spoke Fuchs??? Pull a wheel and check for the Fox logo on the reverse...(Fuchs = Fox)

Probably more but that is a quick once over...

Drive the car for more than 50 miles... a short testdrive will not disclose the real issues if the fuel injection is screwed up...

Posted by: Rand Mar 12 2008, 11:32 AM

If the hellhole is as nice as the rest of the car and it runs out good, it looks like a nice car. But after my experience I know I would be looking real close at the area below the battery and forward along the top of the frame rail for rust damage. The previous owner of my car did a masterful job of hiding it. It wasn't until I removed some of his covering and poked around with an icepick that I uncovered the truth.

In this picture, there are a couple spots that look like rust. Poke at them hard with an icepick to make sure it isn't worse underneath the surface because this area takes a hard hit if the hellhole got a start above.

Posted by: ericread Mar 12 2008, 12:14 PM

IMHO, there are three things to watch out for; rust, rust and rust. Everything else is fixed much easier. If you can get the owner to pull the rocker panels, look especially in ther area around the jack holes. Water just loves to get in there and muck about. What initially looks to be a tiny hole can hide an amazine amount of rust.

When I got my first teener about a year ago I looked primarily at the underbody, suspension and engine. If the fundamentals are good, every thing else is a (figuratively) piece of cake.

Good luck, blue skies and green lights!

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 12 2008, 12:49 PM

Okay, newbie question here: what exactly is the "hellhole"?

I've done a bunch of reading on these cars, and I know that rust is the biggest issue, so I want to be sure I know what to look for.

Btw, here is a photo of the battery area. Anyone frightened by what they see?

Posted by: Rand Mar 12 2008, 01:01 PM

In your pic, if the battery and ECU were out of the way, the corner down in the bottom where the top of the frame rail and inner fender wall meet the firewall and along the top surface of the frame rail all around there.

If the car sees rain, water runs off the battery, picks up some acid (since it still has the old non-sealed lead-acid battery), and runs down, hits the top of the frame rail, runs forward and down.... Over time does it's damage and eats a hole, then starts dripping into the inside of the frame rail, then can lead to real damage.

This one doesn't look bad. But plan on getting rid of that battery, killing and sealing any surface rust, then installing and Optima or Odyssey sealed battery.

Posted by: Twise Mar 12 2008, 01:05 PM

Looks a little rusty, but no holes. Buy It. I have seen much worse. What is he asking for it?

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 12 2008, 01:05 PM

So, looking at the photo, basically right in line behind the little strap holding up that black cable?

Posted by: roadster fan Mar 12 2008, 01:20 PM

I am just looking at photos so it is really hard to discern exactly what is pictured. It does look like a scratch, but I think that is a strange place for a scratch that size. That is a common area for these cars to have rust just like the hell hole. Just look closely at this area from the top and underneath. The rubber seal/trim around the windshield is not stock and just makes me wonder. Just look closely. If it is just a scratch so be it.

The area underneath the battery and to the left in your photo is the hell hole area. When looking just follow the slope of the frame rail down underneath the computer to find the area most commonly damaged by acid and water.

Just look everywhere that is hidden from first view. This is where rust hides. Looks like a nice car, but do a thorough inspection of the whole thing. If you can get someone experienced with these cars to go with you. If it is as nice as it looks and the price is right, congrats.

Jim

Posted by: Rand Mar 12 2008, 01:26 PM

Here's a pic I found online that should help. You can see the areas they cut out and patched.

Posted by: James Adams Mar 12 2008, 02:33 PM

Depending on your use for the car, these are nice upgrades. That's a RennShift shifter under that boot and the speakers are mounted in the pods from 914 Appearance and Performance.

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 12 2008, 02:47 PM

The owner also just informed me that he has the original boot and shift knob, so this is now much less of a concern.

Posted by: Ferg Mar 12 2008, 02:51 PM

Rennshift is a huge bonus, better than the original, so keep it in the negotiations.

I can only add to inspect that drivers quarter closely. If indeed the sticker was just taken off, it should be evident with perhaps some fading of paint to show where the sticker was ect. If you are not good at spotting body work, bring someone who is.

Ferg

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 12 2008, 02:56 PM

Body-wise, other than rust, this is my biggest concern. My hunch is that the panel was dented, fixed and then re-sprayed. My hope is that the sticker just fell off.

I'll look for overspray, color match and any other problems. I do have someone coming with me (Pete Bristow of http://www.bristowsauto.com/) who should be able to be another set of eyes.

Posted by: Ferg Mar 12 2008, 04:43 PM

It's not that big of a deal if it's been done correctly, it's the bad bodywork that devalues the car.

Ferg

Posted by: championgt1 Mar 12 2008, 09:59 PM

A piece of the sticker should not just fall off. That porsche script is all one sticker.

Looks like a nice car. Good luck!

Posted by: 914-8 Mar 12 2008, 11:15 PM

If it's all one piece, how do you open the door??

Someone, somewhere, posted about that exact car around 3 weeks ago (maybe a month). I think on Bird and Rennlist. There were pictures and discussion about it, and the guy had an appointment to go look at it. Apparently he didn't buy it?

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 13 2008, 12:04 AM

I saw that, too, on Rennlist. That's where I found the photo of the battery tray I posted earlier.

What is "Bird?" Is that another forum?

Posted by: Rand Mar 13 2008, 12:07 AM

Yup, "bird" is http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=7

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 13 2008, 12:15 AM

Oh great, just what I need. Yet another way to waste time online...

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 17 2008, 01:58 PM

Well, that didn't work out the way I hoped it would. Thanks to everyone in the group for the advice. It prevented me from buying a 914 that had serious structural rust issues.

Probably the smartest thing I did was take the advice from folks here to call Pete Bristow from Bristow's Automotive in Tacoma. He agreed to do a "house call" for me and come with me to take a look at the car. The owner was unwilling to drive it all the way north to Tacoma, so Pete made that a non-issue.

Pete knows his 914s, and within seconds of checking out the car, started spotting things wrong with it that I almost certainly would have missed. Like...

• The right trunk hinge had been re-welded and was missing some parts
• The paint was definitely a "10-foot" job, with serious scratches on the trunk and crackling all over the place
• The battery tray looked good, but the frame rail beneath it was rusted heavily
• There was actually a crack in the frame that was well hidden, tucked right against the firewall. I never would have spotted this. Pete earned his keep right then and there.
• The left front corner had been hit at some time in the past and repaired. I actually spotted this one, but Pete confirmed it by pointing out a few places where the repair work had been done.

So, overall, it was a nice-looking 914 with some serious problems. Definitely not worth the $8500 the owner was asking. Probably more like $3000-4000. I was looking for a car without rust issues, so I passed this time.

Again, thanks, everyone, for all of your help.

Posted by: 914-8 Mar 17 2008, 02:35 PM

Good job on getting a PPI. The car seemed suspect, since at least one apparently serious person looked and passed on it.

As to the Bird board, I didn't think there was anyone left in the world that hadn't heard of Pelican! (Although it is awesome for 911, I don't think the 914 board gets a whole lot of action anymore. When it first started, the Pelican 914 board was bigger than all of the other models combined!).

Posted by: championgt1 Mar 17 2008, 09:49 PM

This car has also been floating around on craigslist for awhile. Originally when I first saw it on there it was around 10 g's. Glad you got some help and not a car that was not what you thought it was.

Posted by: ericread Mar 19 2008, 08:31 PM

Sorry the car didn't work out for you. Keep lookin, there are some amazingly good 914s out there if you don't rush and you carefully look them over. For the most part, the posters' here are really well qualified, and will almost always be available to assist.

The good news is you're not stuck with a Lemon (reference "24 Hours of Lemons")

Let us know when you finally get your teener. And as always, blue skies and green lights.

Posted by: HeelnToe Mar 19 2008, 09:04 PM

Thanks, everyone. The search continues. You'll see me at an autocross this summer, I hope.

Posted by: championgt1 Mar 19 2008, 09:05 PM

Keep up the search!

Posted by: 6freak Mar 20 2008, 08:29 AM

RUST UNDER BATTERY TRAY AND A LITTLE UP FRONT JUST BELOW THE WIND SCREEN WASHERS.! ALL NORMAL ALL REPAIRABLE!
ITS JUST MONEY