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Posted by: McMark Apr 2 2008, 06:47 PM

Mike Mueller originally retailed a roller bearing replacement for the front and rear suspension. He gave the designs to me and I've finally priced all of the components out and am ready to start taking orders.

In case you're not familiar with what I'm talking about, you can look http://www.paintandmetal.com/FreeMotion.php.

I will need 10 people to pre-order in order to get the run going. The normal price will be $500 per car. But for anyone who gets in this first run, I'll be selling them at $450 a set.
Pre-Orders:
1. Andy
2. Steve
3. Clay
4. Eddie
5. Bruce
6. Ted
7. John
8. Bill
9. carlilq
10. Eric Shea
11. Mel
12. Rob

If there is enough interest in the fronts, I will make the rears available.

These bearings work with all 914 suspension, all 5 lug conversions, and all 69-89 911 suspension.

I'm sure a few people will post their experiences with the bearings, but when I installed a set, I KNEW the difference as soon as I drove the car out of the shop. Stock suspension DOES NOT COMPARE. These are a great improvement for daily drivers and race cars alike.

Posted by: Travis Neff Apr 2 2008, 06:59 PM

Giddyup!

Posted by: TedK Apr 2 2008, 07:31 PM

Mark, forgive the ignorance, but is this something you just ship to us and we install as a DIY, or do you require the suspension pieces shipped to you? If its DIY, I'm in for a set.

Ted K

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 2 2008, 07:45 PM

Ted, DIY, I have a set I haven't installed yet. They are really cool!

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 2 2008, 08:24 PM

+1 ...

one set for the front please!


Andy

Posted by: Heeltoe914 Apr 2 2008, 10:10 PM

I was going to try the PolyBronze Bushings now this. Can you please compare the two so I can decide? Avantages one way or the other?? Thanks Mark or anyone that can compare the two.

Posted by: McMark Apr 2 2008, 10:28 PM

I have no first hand experience with PolyBronze. But looking at the factors, the PolyBronze has a 360* contact patch. So while they are smooth, there is still going to be more friction than the roller bearings. Roller bearings basically have zero friction. The PolyBronze people claim that a roller bearing will wear grooves in the race that will cause slop. I don't agree with that. While their logic IS correct, the important missing factor is HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE? Both PolyBronze and FreeMotion will wear out, but I don't believe either will happen in a short amount of time and I think both would be similar.

Either one is better than stock. I feel that my setup will have better performance than the PolyBronze.

Posted by: ericread Apr 2 2008, 10:45 PM

For $450.00, do you get four sets of what your drawing shows, so that it includes the entire front end? Or would I need to order four sets, making the front end bearing replacement at $1,800.00?

Posted by: McMark Apr 2 2008, 10:48 PM

That depends... are you willing to spend $1800?

J/K It's sold as a package. $450 does a whole front suspension.

Posted by: Grimstead Apr 16 2008, 08:08 PM

Posted by: Porcharu Apr 17 2008, 12:08 AM

Dang! you beat me to it. I was just talking to Mike about making these for him an paying a small royalty and he told me you beat me to the punch. If you don't make the rears I will, and I want a front set.
Steve

Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 17 2008, 12:16 AM

Jeebus. I wish I had an extra $450 laying around.

--DD

Posted by: Brando Apr 17 2008, 02:08 AM

Hot diggity! If only I were rolling in cash.

Price on rear sets? And... any chance you can make an actual seal setup for the rears as opposed to the "RTV this O-Ring in place..." method?

Posted by: blitZ Apr 17 2008, 07:16 AM

What is installation like with the roller bearing compared to bushings? Is there a rubber boot or something to protect the bearing from the elements?

Posted by: r_towle Apr 17 2008, 08:01 AM

Hi,
I did a group buy for the remaining stock of the original designers of these out here in the East.
I LOVE this setup.
Two things I would suggest.
To Mark,
Include the correct tube of Loktite in the package. Its not so easy to source locally and halts the installation.

To the end customer.
Use marine based wheel bearing grease (for trailers) and forget about using any seals. the marine based grease is waterproof, sticks like snot, and does not wash out.

The system does require periodic maintenance, but with two years on mine, I have not re-greased them yet.

When you put them in, there are a few simple tricks that logic will make apparent.
Do not force the bearing onto the shaft....grease it up and slide it on slowly...make sure it spins freely...if not, take it off, line up the needle bearings and do it again.

Remove the ball joint, dont do this with the ball joint attached to the strut (on the car) it creates a problem. Seen it, fixed it...stupid approach.

When you install these, the a-arm should and will swing freely when mounted to the car. No other system will move like this.
Keep tuning the front cover till there is zero friction and the arm swings perfectly, then put the ball joint back in.
Like I said, I have fixed this on more than one car, and this was done by guys with lifts.

I remove the a-arm all together, get it nice and clean with power tools, and setup the whole system off the car (you need to let the locktite dry overnight...really)

Overall and awesome system.

The one thing I also noticed is that the hardened washers...
Some cars need more than others, it would be a good option to be able to order more of those...not the thrust washer, but the flat hardened washers that capture the thrust washer.

Great setup, once per the life of the car.

Rich

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 17 2008, 08:05 AM

I am in... and I want a rear set when you make those. I wanted a set of these for a long time.


DAMN.... it just means that I am going to have to pull the rear arms another time to replace the bushings. I am starting on them tonight to replace the rear bearings.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 17 2008, 08:11 AM

One more thing if you consider manufacturing the rear bearing kit.

Consider offering the entire thing turn key.
By this I mean a full refurbished rear trailing arm, cleaned, powdercoated, new wheel bearing and front bearings installed.

I found it alot easier and less stressful to take another rear trailing arm set and take my time to do this. Then its a bolt in project on the car.

Its one of those "while you here" kinda things that can get out of hand and take to long. You could sell them on a swapped basis, just to retain quality control and not become the tech support guy...the rears take more talent to do right...

Rich

Posted by: McMark Apr 17 2008, 11:24 AM

Good point Rich, these will ABSOLUTELY be available at a pre-installed price (according to my normal shop rates).

If I get a full order of the fronts, the rears will be no problem and probably won't be limited to the same 10 pre-order restriction.

Posted by: scrz914 Apr 17 2008, 12:35 PM

Maybe a silly question but...how does one determine that replacement of their stock bushings are necessary? Is there a test that can be done that will show you that the stock bushings are worn? What are the indications?
I've noticed that a lot of members have done a replacement with PolyBronze or PolyGraphite and now the roller bearings, so there must be a need to do this.
Or is it that people are doing whatever they can to improve their cars ride and value. I do get excited when I see cool new products come out for our cars and I was reaching for the $450 when I said to myself ..."self, you don't even know if you need this or not".
Maybe those that have done a replacement could chime in on the benefits.

Posted by: McMark Apr 17 2008, 01:04 PM

Most of the time once the bushings wear out they literally fall out. This upgrade is more along the lines of getting the best working suspension possible. It's not so much "Ah, crap, my suspension's dead." It's more "I want it to feel SMOOTH!"

Posted by: Eddie914 Apr 17 2008, 01:43 PM

Put me down for a set.

Thanks

Eddie

Posted by: ClayPerrine Apr 18 2008, 07:52 AM

McMark... you got enough participants yet????

Posted by: GWN7 Apr 18 2008, 01:31 PM

add me to the gang of ten

Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 24 2008, 12:19 AM

I had a set of the originals in my old 914.... THEY ROCKED!!

Posted by: neo914-6 Apr 25 2008, 12:43 PM

someone should complete a front bearing installation, here's one for the http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=74069&hl=needle

Posted by: Grimstead May 2 2008, 02:32 PM

How difficult is the install for the front? Could a bone-head like me do it? I've got freshly powder coated A arms just sitting on my shelf (with a bunch of other front end stuff to go with them).

Posted by: SirAndy May 2 2008, 02:38 PM

you forgot to put ted on your list, so if i'm counting right, that's 6 out of ten.

only 4 more to go!
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy May 2 2008, 02:39 PM

yes, installation is bone-head proof ...
Andy

Posted by: McMark May 2 2008, 03:51 PM

Pretty damn easy is right.

Posted by: JmuRiz May 2 2008, 03:52 PM

So very tempting....I do have new-ish normal bushings on the front...but if it really is a night/day feeling I may have to consider.

Plus I have this Federal Tax relief money in my pocket as of today.

I wonder what the front and rears would feel like, hmmmm.

Posted by: McMark May 2 2008, 04:02 PM

As I mentioned at the top, I could absolutely feel a difference after rolling 5 feet and driving over the 1/2" bump between the cement shop floor and the asphalt driveway. This is not an upgrade that you can sometimes, maybe feel under certain circumstances.

Posted by: SirAndy May 2 2008, 04:05 PM

like riding on butter ...
Andy

Posted by: Grimstead May 2 2008, 04:56 PM

So let's say I get in on the fronts now and down the road you offer front/rear package. Will you honor that price for those of us who then buy the rears as well?


PS I would take this offline but I think it may help make more orders in the end.

Posted by: Gint May 2 2008, 05:52 PM

Yo McMark-us! Have docs written yet for the front install?

Posted by: Root_Werks May 2 2008, 05:58 PM

Any issues with road noise transfer? These things look like they friggen rock! As soon as I'm done with my 2 job stint, I'll be in for front and rears I'm sure.

Posted by: SirAndy May 2 2008, 06:07 PM

nope. i'm running the rears for over a year now ...
Andy

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 2 2008, 06:13 PM

For you fence sitter's. I have no invested interest. I have had my car sence 1982,

seen alot of 'goodies' come and go. Most of them don't do a darn thing for your

car. There have been other runs of a simular product, limited runs. Every person

that got them and anyone that rode in that car basicly conveyed that it was a life

changing event, or at least car changing. They raved about the ride. I can not

afford them, but I wish I could. Like I said nothing invested here, just wanted to

share.

Posted by: Root_Werks May 2 2008, 06:20 PM

Sweeeeeeet!

Posted by: McMark May 2 2008, 06:35 PM

Bill, there won't be any issue for front set owners getting stand-alone rear sets.

Posted by: Eric_Shea May 2 2008, 06:43 PM

You can usually check by measuring the top and the bottom of the stock bushing. Someone posted a picture of a fairly severe "out of round" condition on their front arm last week. After a while the suspension settles in the bushing. Take the nose cap off and look at the bushing.

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2008, 07:06 PM

AAARRRGGHHHH!!! I can't take it anymore I must have a set too!!!

Its not like I have a 914 problem, I just do it socially, and I can stop anytime
I want to!

John

Posted by: McMark May 2 2008, 07:59 PM

John's on the list...

Bill, to clarify, anyone who steps up for fronts right now will get 'deal' pricing on the rears. I won't let the people who made this run happen end up getting screwed financially by a special package deal later.

Likely, once rears are available the FreeMotion setup will only be available as a complete car package.

Posted by: McMark May 2 2008, 08:09 PM

Not yet, but I'll document an installation and since I've done a few of these installs, I will be available to purchasers for tech support.

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider May 2 2008, 10:49 PM

The rear bushing switch to solid bearings is almost mandatory according to some 914 owners that have those heavy, powerful 6s like Andy. The engine will kinda torque the arms around in their flimsy rubber pivots, and wears out the hard plastic type pretty fast. Rears only would probably sell OK

I am working at a snail's pace installing a set in my 1.7, because everything I read was so positive. There are lots of cracks and potholes in my neighborhood I'd like to drive over without skipping on the CD.

Posted by: Grimstead May 2 2008, 10:51 PM

Well then, count me in!

Posted by: Andyrew May 3 2008, 03:58 AM

This is the setup guys!!

My rock solid car feels crisp and smooth, Yes I can feel the bumps in the road but its totally different! The car absorbs it because the suspension does the work faster and more efficiently!!



Keep in mind as you order this you will be softening up your suspension as you will be taking out the resistance from the bushings.


BTW im running front and rear from Mueller..

Posted by: yarin May 3 2008, 07:20 PM

Nice concept!
I would be interested in a set of complete 4 lug rear trailing arms all prepped + powdercoated with FreeMotion bearings for a cost effective price. Maybe team up with PMBperformance and offer a package...

Great work!

Posted by: carlilg May 3 2008, 07:49 PM

Add me to the list! How close are we to getting this done?

Posted by: Eric_Shea May 3 2008, 08:00 PM

I was just waiting so I could be #10 and act like the heee-ro

Posted by: Eric_Shea May 3 2008, 08:01 PM

We done been talkin... I've got some powder coated arms sitting here waiting.

Posted by: McMark May 3 2008, 09:53 PM

Cool! I'll start the ball rolling Monday/Tuesday.
Anyone else who wants to get in, there's still time. There is no limit on the number I can get, I just needed a minimum of 10.

Posted by: Gint May 3 2008, 10:41 PM

If I didn't already have a full set of front and rears already I'd be buying a set. And I probably will buy a full set later.

Posted by: McMark May 6 2008, 11:41 AM

I start ordering today. Last chance...

Posted by: SirAndy May 6 2008, 11:57 AM

Hey McMark, what's the turn around time for powdercoating (yellow!) my front a-arms ???
Andy

Posted by: ClayPerrine May 6 2008, 12:14 PM

When do I have to send you money???

Posted by: 96744 May 6 2008, 04:58 PM

Count me in for a set.

Posted by: McMark May 6 2008, 09:15 PM

You're on the list Mel! Just in time.

Posted by: Grimstead May 6 2008, 10:05 PM

So...

Can I expect the same level of service I got with the 5K engine?
=

Posted by: McMark May 6 2008, 10:22 PM

Road trip!

Posted by: Grimstead May 7 2008, 08:34 PM

I'm gonna hold you to it!

Posted by: ArtechnikA Oct 18 2009, 07:03 AM

So how's this going now?
Are the FreeMotion parts in production?
Where do I get them ?

Posted by: pcar9146guy Oct 18 2009, 08:37 AM

I've got a set of the roller bearing front and rear. I really like them. Mark.....Were these first sold by Shine Racing Service? The only complaint I have with mine is the "seal" for the fronts. I put them on my project car and before I ever had one mile on it one of the seals broke!!! I called Shine and they said the "seals" were nothing but a bicycle inner tube.... Told me to buy one and make my own!!! That's the only negative thing I can say about them. I would do like Rich said and that is to use marine grease on the fronts......