Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 11:34 AM

I just got a call from my insurance company. For a 73 914 with an estimated 144,000mi, bucket seats, targa top, power steering, power breaks

$4770 with $500 taken away if I keep it for salvage



I am not accepting this.....time to check my options.

Posted by: Headrage May 5 2008, 11:39 AM

Tell them they are either missing a 1 from the front of the numbers or a zero on the end.

See which one they prefer.

Look like it's time to do a little research.

Posted by: Joe Mama May 5 2008, 11:40 AM

Blow me......

Did ya tell them it was a 914/6?

Get a free eval from PCA.

Start downloading ads from evilBay, I also heard Rick Ollah had some help from various sources.....

Posted by: brer May 5 2008, 11:40 AM

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com May 5 2008, 11:45 AM

not in a million years.

Posted by: Jeffs9146 May 5 2008, 11:50 AM

This happened to me in 1984 when I wrecked my first 6! I had to show documentation of what it would cost to build it bact to the condition mine was "excelent like new condition" I was able to show that with the flairs and 6 and everything it would cost approx:$12,500. Keep in mind this is in 1984! They gave me $12,000 and the car for $500!




Attached image(s)

Posted by: rick 918-S May 5 2008, 11:52 AM

For All my friends. This is not professional advice just one friend making a suggestion to another. Never meet with an insurance appraiser without having done your homework first! You do not want to have to enter into a negociation from an offer like this. Nicely ask your appraiser to take a copy of your research. Some will refuse.

EDIT: I will add more info here. I'm working, getting calls and jumping back and forth from my software to the net.

First thing: You will aways need to give a statement. Do not volenteer info. Only answer what is asked of you and be brief but factual.

Second: only give this to your carrier unless they advise you otherwise. Anyone else contacts you, refer them to your carrier.

Next: Be prepared. Next after that, be prepared. Some appraisers will call and advise you they are going out to inspect your car. Most prefer to just inspect it without you there. Don't let this happen!

Then: Be prepared! do research before your meeting. Get copies of at least 3 comparable vehicles in writting! Ask the appriaser to take copies with him. Some will not want them, make them take them if you have to sneak them in his car.

I don't know how many times I've had someone tell me on the phone; "there's no effin way I'm settling for that! My effin car is worth way more that that" Then when I instruct them on what it will take to change my figures they cant' produce info showing more value.

I'm going to let you guys in on something. Most auto appraisers have no clue about cars period! I worked with a whole dept. of college educated pencil pushers that wouldn't know the difference between a Sunbeam Imp, Renault Gordini and a Ford Escort. Can you imagine asking what kind of projects they were working on and having every one of those guys look at me like...Huh?
They were trained to write an estimate in a one week class, and rely on data they can get off the internet. Granted, they can't tell if the vehicle they have sourced is actually the same as yours but hey, if it came up on the search we'll go with it!

And finally, be prepared! Don't give the appraiser a bullshit letter from some bull shit dealer saying they think your car is worth $XXXXX.XX because they know so much. Get the letter but have them refer to actual cars they have, either the value of these cars or the price they are currently FOR SALE for.

BTW: I no longer work as an auto damage appraiser.

Auto Damage Appraisers will not intensionally give you a low ball offer. It happens to be against the law. However they will not put a lot of time in doing research if they get a couple quick and dirty hits during a search. These guys are required in many cases to present an offer to settle within 24 hours. That's why I express the importance of doing your own research.

Posted by: Spoke May 5 2008, 12:09 PM

^^^^ I Agree!!

make a list of all your expenditures and gather info from other cars. I gave my insurance guy 3 want ads for an ok, very good, and concourse 914. The lowest was about $4500, the middle $9000, and the concourse was about $17000. My expenditures list came out to about $7500 and the insurance co. offered $7800 for my 71 1.7L 4-lugger 914.

Keep working with these guys to get what you want.

Posted by: r_towle May 5 2008, 12:11 PM

Evil, Contact Dr 914...he has a repuation, he can be checked by insurance, and he should be able to help access your car.

Rich

Posted by: blitZ May 5 2008, 12:22 PM

Not too surprising. Most insurance companies will give you a low ball offer initially, hoping you will bite. Now, it's time to haggle. Stay solid and get what you want.

Posted by: GWN7 May 5 2008, 12:46 PM

Nov 2007 Excellence values:

914 2.0 1973

so-so $9,835
Good $11,184
Excellent: $14,970

Nice, they set the salvage value at $500

My 72 Westie was in a accident and my insurance company decided it was a writeoff. (Total parts to fix it were under $200) They offered me what I had payed for it, less my deductable and the salvage value. I had to hire a independent appraiser (cost $550) as they refused to use the figures I supplied (ebay and Samba averages to like year and model). Ended up they payed me 4X there initial offer and then they tryed to raise the salvage value to recoup some of the settlement. The final settlement was within $300 of what I told them it was worth.

Thank them for offering to pay for the wheels & tires and ask them the procedure for disputing the settlement. Start asking around for the names of independent appraisers in your area. Local car clubs are a good source.

Posted by: ConeDodger May 5 2008, 01:25 PM

In 2001 I was hit in the right rear by an idiot trying to pass between the lanes on the 580 in Fairfield. He spun me and then tagged the right front on his way by. I spun around probably 4 times before coming to a stop next to the Armco on the inside shoulder. That 240Z was perfect. The engine had not had its first oil change. The car was covered from front to rear with road rash from the rocks that came up as I spun. The impact damage was minor. I drove it home...

I had to get the insurance information from CHP a month after the fact as he was arrested at the scene. Seems he was a little lit up on Friday after work. I called California AAA and asked when I was going to hear from them and they were shocked to find that their insured had been in "another" accident the same day as the last one. Seems he didn't mention either me or the woman he punted through the fence and into the field on the outside of the highway. That woman was cut out of her Camry and airlifted to UCDavis in Sacramento. I guess he told them he spun and hit the gaurdrail. His POS Firebird had already been repaired!

After all of the apologies for the behaviour of their insured and the assurances he was cancelled and would be prosecuted for fraud they dug in...
They offered me $2000 and I could keep the car for $700. Ahhh no. I had an appraisal done just 3 months before the accident and they had placed the value at $14000.00. Well, AAA said, we will have to look into this. They sent an independent appraiser who placed the value at $15000.00. Well, now they were willing to settle for the $14000.00! Ummm no, I said. I will take the $15000.00 from the more recent appraisal and keep the car. They knew they were screwed so they settled.

I am pretty sure that I got another $15000.00 from selling the parts. I know I got $5000.00 for the engine alone and a guy even drove down from Oregon to get it.

They want to settle. The are in fact under pressure at my own insurance company to settle within a fairly short period.

Be reasonable in your manner but steadfast in your intention to get what your car is worth. You are a good deal smarter than the insurance adjuster. As Rick said, most of them are pretty clueless.

PCA Valuation, Excellence November issues, Statements from owners of similar cars.

Glad you weren't hurt... Behave out there Mike. It sounds like black ice to me...

Posted by: dw914er May 5 2008, 01:34 PM

yea, that offer is way to low. Update us on the haggling.

Posted by: Gint May 5 2008, 04:42 PM

I haven't read the post yet Mike. I just saw the title of the thread. Let me guess... $5k? I'll go read your post now.

Edit:

I was only $230 off!

I have to go read Rick's post.

Sorry Mike. Give 'em hell!

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 05:13 PM

OK, I am home now and can elaborate on what happened.

Their adjuster has already gone to the car and "assessed" it. I was unable to be there and it sounds as if it wouldnt have mattered any how. My company consults an appraisal company to look at the wrecks and that appraiser reports back. Then one of them enters the year, make and model plus mileage and extra "factory" features (more on this later) into a computer that searches the local area for "similar" vehicles to generate a value. My car has no equal around here, but they are having a problem seeing this.
When they called me and started saying "power steering and power brakes" I was like, "whoa, I see a major problem in your valuation algorhythm." I tried to explain that my car was not your ordinary 914 and the lady said that any thing I did to it that is 3 years old or more is not considered towards the value and that the car will only be valued against similar stock models for that year (I am still trying to figure this one out).
I asked a hypothetical question about "what if the car had a $1M engine in it" and the lady got all snippy and said that I should have it insured with classic car auto insurance. I told her that my car is worth about $35K since that is what I was offered for it (just a working figure) and she again got pissy and mentioned the classic ins. I answered her back saying that $35k is the price for a nice new honda and you wouldnt put classic insurance on that. The car is not worth a mint, but it is damn sure worth more than $4.7k.

Soooo, I told her that I have a licensed appraiser on retainer already and that he would be willing to talk with their appraiser to help come to a more reasonable settlement. She said that their regional appraiser would contact my appraiser and I gave her the info. then I asked for the contact info for their guy and she got all weird and said that she would have to email her guy and see how this was to go down. I was pretty put off by this, but I am in NO hurry so they are gonna hate me as I am not gonna be mean or rude, just tenacious and patient. I will contact George and see what he has to offer as well as my buddy who just sold a stock /4 1976 for $20k that is headed to Barret-Jackson.

The only concern that I have is that they will say my car was insured as a /4 and that it is not going to be covered with the /6 engine. Even if, as a /4 that car was still easily worth $15k on this coast being that it was good paint, no rust and lots of upgrades.

If the adjuster and appraiser can not reach an agreement I have to go to an umpire for which I have to pay 50%. The umpire will hear both sides and his decision is final. The lady told me that the umpire generally settles lower then their initial offer (to scare me off I am sure). I told her that no one in their right mind would offer the original amount and no one with any knowledge of these cars would then lower it.

Input?

Posted by: rick 918-S May 5 2008, 05:14 PM

We should have a "So you crashed your car, now what?" Thread. Maybe in the Classic threads or something.

Posted by: BKLA May 5 2008, 05:15 PM

Mike -

If it would help, I just sold my 6 conversion. I have a bill of sale plus a sh*tload of photos to give your appraiser for a "similar" car. Just email if you need the info.

Posted by: sixnotfour May 5 2008, 05:24 PM

Or Be sure your insured for what you think its worth.

Good Luck Mike.

Posted by: Joe Mama May 5 2008, 05:29 PM

Well then....we now go to the agreed/replacement value which has different definitions in each state.

There's a REASON Insurance companies are rich.....

I have an agent who's my brother in law....I tell him every upgrade I have and to make sure that it's covered....in writing....prior to me stuffing it.

But that's 20/20 hindsight and you don't need to hear that.....

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 05:32 PM

I am not expecting anything close to $35K, but fair and reasonable would be great. Classic car insurance has restrictions, often. I have no interest in that. You can not get a rust free car out here for $4.7k.

Posted by: jd74914 May 5 2008, 05:36 PM

If you wouldn't mind saying, who is your insurance company?

Posted by: cobra94563 May 5 2008, 05:37 PM

My nephew wrecked his e30 m3 6 month ago.
Insuranced offered 5k, we expected ~12k, sent some clssifieds, they offered 15k.
I think some companies not intentionally trying to low-ball their insured clients .. they just have NO clue what certain cars are worth. (Ironic, cause that's their business.) Hopefully, in the end, they treat you right...

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 05:37 PM

I only want enough to:

1- get good tub
2- repair tub, flair tub, paint tub
3- repair any of the bits from the donor car so I can transfer them over to the tub.

Not greedy, just want what I have been paying for.

Posted by: Gint May 5 2008, 05:41 PM

My next call would be to a lawyer. Get her name and address. One letter on letterhead at least to start. Watch her attitude change.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 05:42 PM

I hope they are just ignorant. I know they are ignorant, but hope they are not so willfully. I am trying to work with them and currently hold no malice other then I think the chick talking to me was a bit of a bitch in how she handled my polite disagreements with her estimations.

My company is USAA and has been fantastic to deal with in most all regards for a long time. I have only had one bad employee and this current situation to bitch about and they are by far the exception.

Posted by: Sleepin May 5 2008, 06:05 PM

In which case you should really be set. I have been a member of USAA for 15 years now, and I have never had a problem.

Ignorance is often the case. I had my Civic broken into, I thought I would play hell getting my aftermarket EMS replaced. They wondered if it was an amp etc.... I had to go into detail about what an EMS does, I sent them to the website I bought it from and told them the model...they looked, said ok and paid me full price for it. (and even gave me an upgraded stereo to boot) They have been really understanding during accidents, my car was hit in a parking lot by an uninsured idiot...they actually came down on my $500 deductible because I did not have the cash at the time, they also made sure my rates did not increase due to an accident that was not my fault.

Deal with them rationally, and I think they will do the same.

Posted by: john grier May 5 2008, 06:05 PM

Stick to your guns and go slow.
You have pic's and paper of everything done to it.
Local sales do not count on a car this old.
You have to tell them how far away a replacement car would be and add shipping.
By all means call George.
He may not remember it but he helped me recoup my loss of my 73 zambisie by
over 3 times what I paid for it.
This was in the mid 90's.
I will never forget him for helping me out like that.
Take care, John

Posted by: Root_Werks May 5 2008, 06:37 PM

Evil one, you shouldn't have to get laywers involved. I agree with what was said above. Go slow, take your time, bring lots of documentation to the table. The Excellece Mag is a good one for sure. They'll come up, a lot. It's only thier first offer. Trust me, only about 15% of people take the first offer, but hey 15% do so there's always a chance for them to save money. Just keep at it.

Posted by: ConeDodger May 5 2008, 06:44 PM

Mike,

I didn't know you were military! They are supposed to be respectful to a fault. They still call me Colonel.

The November issue of Excellence should raise the estimate. I just sold the Bumblebee for almost triple that offer. It was a six conversion as well. It wasn't nearly as civilized as yours either.

Posted by: brer May 5 2008, 07:01 PM

I had a long chat with my USAA rep about insuring my VW and she put emphasis on the fact that they will treat my classic as "any other" car, and that I should not expect special compensation or extraordinary repair work above what they would do to any other car.

Funny, she also said to me that I should get classic car insurance if I had a problem with their policy, and I wasn't even making a claim but just asking about their coverage !

I was so put off by her attitude that I challenged her asking how they would value a 60' VW in excellent condition with less than 100k miles.

Basically, long story short, she said they go by "the book" and my car was extimated at 6-12k in excellent condition. I told her that would cover my car just fine and she got extremely nice after that.


Whats up with them?
Classic Car Haters.

Posted by: scotty b May 5 2008, 07:02 PM

F insurance companies ! Take your laptop in with ya !


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914-914-6-Porsche-914-6-Real-Beautiful-and-its-For- Sale_W0QQitemZ270232996693QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6430QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi
ewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914-914-6-1970-Porsche-914-6-GT-Clone-Project-W-911-2-2L- Engine_W0QQitemZ250242592340QQihZ015QQcategoryZ6430QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ
ViewItem



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-914-914-6-1970-Porsche-914-6-body-the-real- mccoy_W0QQitemZ230248757260QQihZ013QQcategoryZ6430QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV
iewItem

Posted by: rick 918-S May 5 2008, 07:27 PM

I've been on both sides of this fence. USAA is extremely agressive when it comes to fast settlements. Yes, this is a customer service standard, however this is not always the best method to resolve a complicated issue. When you call and get their voice mail each rep needs to advise you of an extension where you can give customer feedback.

Yes, classic car insurance is best for our cars but yes it has restrictions. It is also obvious USAA's appraiser rushed to get his info to the rep. Once he completes his work he closes his file. That's why she needs to see how this is to play out. She needs to call the guy to see if he will meet with you. He may have some kind of contract with them.

Yes, they will not want to pay for special engines, tires, wheels, interior, lights, stereo or anything that is not standard on a 914 within your vin range.

Here's what she told you, All cars have engines, tires, and interiors as they were manufactured. In order to license, insure and drive your vehicle all these things need to be present and working. If your engine fails and needs to be replaced, the vehicle is no good with out the engine. If this is the case the vehicle would be worth less than one the same year with a working engine.

Now, where they fall short is they didn't even value your car at fair market value as if it still had a 4 cylinder. They'll come back to the table. It will just take longer.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon May 5 2008, 07:27 PM

Thanks for the ebay links. I downloaded at least one of them for my records.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite May 5 2008, 07:28 PM

USAA will e good to you. Give them the facts and work the system and I know you will come out on top. Between Ron, George, eBay, and Excellence price valuations, I think you will be able to make a very strong case twods getting all your money back. Even if the give you /4 prices, i'd be shocked if you walk with less then $15. USAA has been very good to Erin and I (though she has tested that more then I have.)

Zach

Posted by: evan May 5 2008, 07:33 PM

Dr. E,
Sorry, I missed this whole ordeal. I have my teener insured through Hagerty under classic and they told me no mileage restrictions. Not sure if there were other areas that may have hindered your insurance with them. Just remember, if you are haggling with USAA and they are your insurance, that they work for you!!! I had a similar experience with State Farm on a week old 200 mile driven VW Jetta that got smashed due to their client failure to yield right of way. So damage pre est. at $8,000 plus rental of rent a car, storage, and medical bills (mine) finally when I put it to them that if they thought the car was worth repairing that they do so and sell it but I wanted a new car. Again, I had to remind them that they work for me.
Evan little bean

Posted by: rick 918-S May 5 2008, 07:37 PM

Check this out. This is a very well recognized and utilized resource for the insurance industry.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1973&m=1144&d=5175&c=13&vi=84859&z=17033&da=-1

This is for your zip code area...

Posted by: scotty b May 5 2008, 07:39 PM

NIIICE

Posted by: rick 918-S May 5 2008, 07:46 PM

Yah you betcha, this is a stock 2.0 4 cylinder... I have no idea what this guy looked at to get a FAIR market value...

Posted by: Dr Evil May 5 2008, 08:09 PM

Thanks for the words, bros. It looks as if they looked at original price from NADA for my offer. The NADA is much more resonable and what I am expecting for the insurance I have been paying. It would be different if I were paying $40/mo, but I was paying more, plus I insure my whole fleet with USAA except for the Honda as they stopped insuring motorcycles. I have had to claim with USAA on a few occasions....this is the first time it is just me and no other driver causing the accident

George has already agreed to help out any way he can . I need to get him pics and details later this week.




[quote name='rick 918-S' date='May 5 2008, 09:46 PM' post='1028657']
--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(scotty b @ May 5 2008, 05:39 PM) </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
[quote name='rick 918-S' post='1028653' date='May 5 2008, 05:37 PM']
Check this out. This is a very well recognized and utilized resource for the insurance industry.

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.aspx?LI=1-22-1-5013-0-0-0&l=1&w=22&p=1&f=5014&y=1973&m=1144&d=5175&c=13&vi=84859&z=17033&da=-1

This is for your zip code area...
[/quote]


NIIICE
[/quote]

Yah you betcha, this is a stock 2.0 4 cylinder... I have no idea what this guy looked at to get a FAIR market value...
[/quote]

Posted by: smontanaro May 5 2008, 08:57 PM

There is a http://www.roadglue.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399 on the Road Glue site that gets updated whenever an original /6 goes on the blocks. Maybe there should be a /6 conversion price thread here. While they are well-known to us they are unlikely to be familiar to people outside the 914 community as a whole, let alone within the insurance appraisal industry.

Skip

Posted by: keske968 May 5 2008, 09:48 PM

I also have USAA but have never had to file a claim with them so i am very interested in how this whole thing turns out becasue I have my 6 conversion insured with them. Keep us posted man and good luck. Maybe after you settel I can call them up and say "Hey this is what mine sould be insured for." True mine isnt as nice as yours was but better to try and use the leverage that I do have.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 6 2008, 05:25 PM

So the next person in line called me today...or it was the other chick I talked to and she had an attitude adjustment. She started at me about the 6cyl engine not being stock nor the front and rear bumpers. I told her that regardless of that the value offered is far from market. She said that their adjuster was working on valuating the car and that is how they found out the engine and bumpers were not stock. I told her that regardless of those facts, the price of a nice stock 73 /4 was much higher according to many respected sources in print and in the flesh. I offered to give them my sources to help them valuate my car more appropriately and she finally gave in and gave me a fax number for my stuff. I dont know how that is gonna help with communicating with the folks in the know who need a phone, but one step at a time.

Posted by: biosurfer1 May 6 2008, 05:37 PM

If nothing else, you have one more piece of documentation that you at least tried to help out and made them aware of what fair value is...keep those fax transmission sheets!

Posted by: kojo2001 May 6 2008, 05:49 PM

Sucks Good Luck!!!

I know this doesn't help now but I have my Insurance thru Hagerty Ins and has a set agreed value at 16k 0ded( 73 4cyl 1.8) for less than $200 a year. Worth the call.

Posted by: sww914 May 6 2008, 05:54 PM

Just keep plugging away and you'll get what you deserve. It's the easy people that get the low payouts, don't be an easy one. There's no need to be a dick, just persistent.

Posted by: JRust May 6 2008, 05:55 PM

Didn't you have an offer of 25k a while back Evil? USAA probably would laugh at that but if given with prices of cars similar? It may make it more realistic to them

Might be worth talking to the guy who offered you the 25k & see if you could get the offer in writing. Seems like he was some kind of dealer

Good luck either way!

Posted by: rick 918-S May 6 2008, 06:22 PM

That's the risk of not purchasing collector/classic car coverage with an agreed value. But your absolutely correct about the fair market value issue. It sounds like the guy maybe dinged you for not having the "original" engine or bumpers.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 6 2008, 07:43 PM

I figure that I am getting to keep the engine and /6 goodies so fair market value fo a /4 would be fine. I have a lead on some donor tubs and will be spending most of the money with Scotty B on paint and minor body work. Keeping it all in the family

Posted by: Root_Werks May 6 2008, 09:18 PM

This really sucks for you Evil one and I am going to use it as a leason for myself to possibly change my policy to reflect an agreed value. I go through Progressive and have no idea what they value my car at? Sounds like your making a little progress with your settlement. Good on you for that. Keep at em'!

Posted by: McMark May 6 2008, 09:24 PM

Which makes sense if you're looking at the car as a 'bastard'. The reality that they're not aware of is that the non-original motor is actually a standard 'upgrade' for these cars. Because they don't know better, putting a six in a 914 is the same us putting a Geo Metro motor in there. Might be worth getting together a stack of cars for sale that have conversion motors.

Posted by: r_towle May 6 2008, 09:28 PM

I have a tub if you need. Barter for some tranny work and you can have it.

Rich (Massachusetts....not to far)

Posted by: Dr Evil May 6 2008, 10:29 PM

At first I figured this, too, but they consider that I am paying insurance on a stock 914 only. This is what my rates are based on so I can see their point. I never thought about it and it is good that the /6 parts are still good so I can recover from this. This is why I am comfortable with a /4 sized settlement so long as they do not depreciate my car for having the /6 in it (that would be retarded IMHO).


Rich, what year and shape is your tub in? I am looking for a 73-74 with no major rust

I am always open to barter for tranny work.

Posted by: firstknight13 May 6 2008, 11:59 PM

dr. if it will fit on my truck i will bring it down for gas.........ray

Posted by: Travis Neff May 7 2008, 12:03 AM

Maybe you should change your angle and state the car is very similar to an original 6 and ask to valuate in that direction. They might change their tune a little.

Hang in there at the end of the month they are very anxious to settle claims as that unallocated money for a loss is not good for the books

Posted by: r_towle May 7 2008, 12:07 AM

Its a 73.
It has some rust, nothing major...flesh wounds.
Look up Cevan it was his car...its green (light metallic green) he posted pics long ago.

In my mind its a future driver, just have a big list and two 356's going now.
How confident are you with swing axle trannies???


Rich

Posted by: Joe Mama May 7 2008, 12:10 AM

I'm curious....DOES the insurance policy specify a 914 4 cylinder or just a 914?

If not then the previous poster may have a point. Beyond the VIN, there's really not much diff between a conversion and a factory 914/6....

I looked at my old policy on The Rocket and it was insured with my 914/4 VIN and listed as having a six cylinder motor.

It was wrecked in a hit and run with damage to the front left fender and flare. The adjuster took the same low ball POS VW attitude but backed off when I said...hey stoopid, it's a six.....it's been 13 years, so I forgot all about it.

Posted by: Wanna9146 May 7 2008, 12:33 AM

There is a check-box on every insurance application that asks: "Has this vehicle been modified from stock. If "yes", please list modifications below". If no modifications are listed on the application, you are covered for the stock configuration only.

Three words to remember for those shopping for insurance (especially if you have an exotic or modified vehicle): "Agreed Value Policy". If you have a "Stated Value Policy", you will go through the scenario highlighted in this thread every time. Agreed Value? Collect your check and go spend it.

Posted by: ericread May 7 2008, 12:50 AM

I have a Progressive policy and they set the max value at $5000. Better check your policy. I'll be changing soon.

Posted by: ericread May 7 2008, 01:04 AM

As I work in Regulatory Audit and Compliance for a really big Insurance company, the real issue is unallocated monies at the end of a quarter, and that usually applies only on fully adjuducated cases. The more pressing issue is the time of adjudication for claims per your state's Department of Insurance requirements. The Ins. company can be significantly fined if they do not meet agreed-upon adjudication timelines (usually 60 to 90 days).

Dr. Evil; The dance has begun. Continue to collect your evidence, and press them for answers and written explanations. Just like a first dance with a young lady, go too fast and they'll pull back their offer; go too slow and they'll think you're dull.

Always have more documentation than the Ins. company expects. The adjusters are just folks that are used to working off of set charts. Your car doesn't fit on the chart. You need to convince them that your chart (evidence) is a better representation of the facts than their chart, and that a third party would easily see it your way. The adjuster is being graded by their abaility to keep claims to a minimum. Getting overturned by an arbitor for a large sum is not to their advantage, and if you convince them of this risk, they are much more likely to offer you a reasonable settlement.

Good luck, and please keep us updated.

Posted by: flat4 May 7 2008, 03:04 AM

It is interesting to see how insurance works there. Here is Oz I would expect to have zero coverage if they found an undeclared modification on a car. Their argument will be that they insured a slow car and you now have a fast car. The risk is clearly higher as you span off the road...

I insure all my cars at agreed value and list every modification and insist that they write them on the policy document. It appears to cost me $50 a year extra over bargain basement coverage but is worth it.

When taking cover out on a car they offered me a silly (high) agreed value, so I said OK and took it. I later had a write off claim and they paid in full. I mentioned to them that I expected them to haggle and they told me that they always aimed high with agreed value as a marketing tool to get people to sign up & be happy in the event of a claim. They factor the risk into the policy cost.

Cheers, Steve

Posted by: rick 918-S May 7 2008, 08:24 AM

I would agree with this mostly, however, when I was a rep for one company the auto guy's (I was a multi-line rep and fell under their scoring radar) were scored on volume of claims settled. There was never a focus on what was "saved for the company as an induvidual" It is harder to track as a method of profitability and illegal to engage in. It's stealing in is simplest term. Why would someone want to try to lowball a car guy? Life is too short to assume people are stupid and will just accept what ever you offer because you have the check book. Not to mention all field notes would be discoverable in the event a company was challenged for a questionable practice.



Now the casualty and property claims dept. was another story.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 11 2008, 09:28 PM

I got the traffic citation this weekend

I intend to email the copies of Excellence valuations, the NADA addy, and have sent some info to Dr914 so he can help.

Lets see how it goes. I would like to author the thread that consolidates the resources you all have offered me so people can be steered to it should they be in my unfortunate situation. Thanks all.

Posted by: Joe Mama May 11 2008, 09:33 PM

Speeding ticket?

That's bogus, get a lawyer and fight that. I got a ticket once when I hit a Jaguar that pulled out in fron of me on my BMW bike.....two witnesses, the wife of the jerk pulling out and a blind man.....I shit you not, his statement was, "he (me) sounded like he was going fast....."

Posted by: Dr Evil May 11 2008, 09:37 PM

It is marked as "Driving vehicle at unsafe speed"

I am going to show up at court and see if I can get it dropped. I dont think they have a case.

Posted by: LvSteveH May 11 2008, 11:16 PM

You should be a lawyer, not a Dr

There's a one-armed truck driver that could take an 18 wheeler through there at 20mph in the wet without spilling his coffee.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: auerbach May 11 2008, 11:59 PM

Spoke to George on Saturday and he was all hot to trot to come to your aid. Anything that you might need, just give a yell.

Posted by: ericread May 12 2008, 01:24 AM

Unfortunately, many States make a case that ANY speed at which an operator cannot carefully control their vehicle is an "unsafe" speed. Therefore, should an operator lose control of their vehicle, they were obviously operating their vehicle at an unsafe speed.

It's kind of a catch-all citation. Other states use the "reckless driving" statutes to accomplish the same thing. In other words, if you miss a corner and hit a tree, you were obviously driving in a reckless manner.

IMHO, your best bet is to demonstrate that you knew specific road very well, you were not speeding, participating in a show of speed or performance, or breaking any laws. And that the accident was due to unanticipated road conditions of which a reasonable person would not be aware. Thsi could include a recent deposit of oil, sand or other traction-reducing agent on the road.

Good luck.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 12 2008, 01:33 AM

I had to do this when I was 19 in a very horrible case. My car hit ice and they wanted to say I was being wreckless. Granted there was a fatality in mine... it was BS and they just wanted to point a fingure. Besides, if the road was in any way the problem it can come back to then state. I know of a few parties that are in litigation over the road conditions being poor and not posted.

Good luck Mike... I hope it works out for you.

Posted by: type11969 May 12 2008, 07:33 AM

Weak, the cop never even called to ask my opinion. Let me know if there is anything I can do to help out.

-Chris

Posted by: charliew May 12 2008, 08:56 AM

I had a wreck on my sportster a few years ago. Progressive ins. I was with 50 other bikes on a poker run some with their grandkids on back. I got into some loose asphalt on a long gentle curve where a drive way had tracked out the loose stuff into the outside edge of the curve. Don't remember hitting the ground. I had a full helmit on and it got three big breaks in it. It and the LORD probably saved my life, HE likes me. Except for the rear brake pedal being broke off and the tack and speedo being broke the bike is rideable. I had 15k in the bike trying to make it as fast as a V65 Honda I had before it. Progressive picked some sportsters that had sold recently and said it was worth 6500. I offered to show them the receipts. I even offered to take it to the harley shop and put it wrecked beside the ones that were for sale for 10500.00 and they would be able to see the difference between mine and the others in cost. After dragging it out for 3 months they went on a estimate the shop that did the mods on my bike wrote for me. They paid me 4100.00 and put a salvage title on it saying the repair exceded 1/2 the cost of the bike. The bike was about 8 yrs old and had no blemishes and had 6800 miles on it. After about a week from the time of the accident the DPS sent me a ticket for unsafe speed. I would have had to hire a lawyer to fight the ticket so I paid it. You can't take defensive driving if a accident is involved.

Needles to say I no longer use progressive for anything. They told me they didn't even have a way to look up the price of the parts involved.

I thought the bike would be covered because they advertise that 3000.00 extras in addons will be covered. Thier response was the addons weren't damaged.
I haven't had many Ins. claims of any kind but the ones I've had were never fair. I hate insurance companies more than any other thing I can think of.

Posted by: effutuo101 May 12 2008, 10:28 AM

The little yellow sign is recommended speed. Not the actual speed limit. Get a picutre of the actual speed limit for the road.

Posted by: estwing May 12 2008, 11:20 AM

Just my $.02 but for older cars, if you don't have a specified amount that it's insured for and pay against that premium then the insurance company values it at whatever their book says. I was able to get full coverage with a $250 deductible for my '73 2.0 for $28 a month ($6 more than liability alone). When I checked, the insured value was $3200.

That's where the A** raping comes in, especially if it's insured as a classic car. You can insure a POS for $100,000. If you pay the premium and total the car, then you're entitled to the value you insured it for.

Though I'd be happy to offset the lose by compensating you for the rear PORSCHE reflector between the tail lights.

Posted by: brer May 12 2008, 11:46 AM

please delete this pic. its bummin me out.

Posted by: szuccaro May 12 2008, 02:25 PM

Evil, I just went thru something similar last summer. But having gone thru a low ball offer years ago, I was prepared this time. Part of the problem is that they dont have comps. The information within this club should help take care of that. It it helps I can offer up my Interstate Appraisal as an additional reference comp (it came in at $16,150 and my car is only a 2.0L). There's some market research of additonal comps within the report.

If interested, PM me. Steve


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 02:53 PM

I just emailed the lady and sent her the NADA link and all of the excellence articles from 00-07 minus 04 (it was missing). I highlighted that their offer of $4.7k was a far cry from the values listed. I was factual, respectful and not at all a dick I also gave them (again) the contact info for my friend, the 914 DEALER, and for George Hussey (Dr914). I said that I could easily give them comparative STOCK cars for sale currently if that would help.

Ball is in their court, lets see what happens next.....

Posted by: jsayre914 May 12 2008, 03:04 PM

Posted by: jfort May 12 2008, 03:36 PM

slightly OT, but after (actually during) reading this thread, I figured I'd call my insurance co. to update my policy. I use USAA, too, but for the 914-6, they referred me to American Collectors, an affiliate. I told them that I had just put on flares, etc., and that I want to update the stated value. They replied that my policy had lapsed for non-payment. Here I'd thought it was automatically deducted! DAMN! Good thing I called. Got reinstated for a fair value.

Posted by: DNHunt May 12 2008, 03:43 PM

We have USAA also and I got referred to American Collectors also. One problem, they stipulate no timed events. So I said you mean no autocross and she said "What is that?" I said it was turning around cones like the police do. When she asked if it was timed I had to say yes so, I'll have to keep looking.

Dave

Posted by: ConeDodger May 12 2008, 04:32 PM

Nope. The sign gives the actual allowable speed in that section. I once went through one of those sections in Wisconsin at 60 in my Datsun Z and got a ticket for going 25 over the speed limit. The actual speed limit was posted at 60. The sign was right next to me as he handed me the ticket. I too thought it was recommended.

Two years ago I hit a tree trying to avoid the three deer standing on the road on the Oakville Grade between Napa and Sonoma valleys. I didn't hit it hard, I was only doing maybe 15 but it was wet as it had just started raining. I came around a hairpin in the Boxster and they were just standing in the road. I swerved and hit the brakes and the antilocks groaned all the way to the tree just off the road surface. If you have never been here it is wilderness and quite beautiful. I called my insurance which is Mike's as well and they told me it would be my fault. It seems that if you hit anything for any reason you were driving too fast for the conditions. The only time the fault mitigates away from purely yours is if the other object was under the control of another human. The only reason I did not get that same ticket is that the police were not involved. I just backed up, hit the horn to convince Bambi and her friends to move on and drove away. $7K in damage...

Posted by: wilchek May 12 2008, 04:41 PM

I just got a quote from Haggerty for 170.00 with agreed value of $15,000. The question is had anyone had any expereince with Hagerty??

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 05:20 PM

Well, just to prove that when it rains it pours, here is some other stuff that happened from this. Sit back, its a tale.....

The paramedic that showed up on scene with the EMT in the ambulance has filed a complaint about me with the school claiming that when she got on scene I identified myself as a 3rd year trauma resident (which is a doctor, not a student) and that I was confrontational. She said that I told her to leave and that Chris didnt need EMS. She further said that I told her to "step back" and that I "knew what I was doing" and asked her for her ID so I could turn her in. She said that she told me that I would have to speak to medical command and that I responded by saying that "I know everyone in medical command!" I dont even know what medical command is and this whole statement is a complete fabrication.

So, I had to meet with the head of emergency medicine to explain myself. I couldnt believe that someone would make up such blatant lies. I have no idea of the motive behind this either. Since my account of the events, which were completely uninteresting, conflict with her account I am having to meet with the dean of education for the school to see where we go from here.

Am I worried? Not even a little as I have 3 witnesses: Chris, Noel and Heidi were all there the whole time and confirm what I remember. This is great shit to have to deal with right before I had my surgery shelf exam

When the fuck did my life become a soap opera?!

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 05:21 PM

People love Haggerty. I will likeley switch to them.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite May 12 2008, 05:30 PM

When has it not been?

Zach

Posted by: type11969 May 12 2008, 05:33 PM

Maybe she just REALLY wanted to get me in the back of that ambulance. After all, I did look pretty hott at that point . . .

Seriously though, I simply can't imagine anyone buying that tale. Being a med student = smart. Telling an EMT going to the hospital at which said med student is interning that he is a doctor = very unsmart. I don't think any more explanation is needed.

Give me the signal and I'll send a notarized letter with my account of the afternoon.

-Chris

Posted by: scotty b May 12 2008, 05:34 PM

Hell you're living with two good looking women, you have a stable full of exotic cars and motorcycles. Doctor by day, tranny surgeon at night. Probably like coke and hookers on your sailboat on friday nights too

Posted by: type11969 May 12 2008, 05:39 PM

Doesn't Haggerty have significant limitations like all the other collector car insurances like it always has to be garaged, can't drive to work/be on the road during rush hour, can't run errands to it, etc? Basically I thought you can only drive it to shows/test drives. Of course you can bend the rules without them knowing but if you get caught in an accident situation, you are left with no insurance, both on your vehicle, yourself, and whoever else might be involved. No thanks. I know Statefarm did an agreed value std policy on my Beetle in NJ, I think this summer when I sell the 'ata I'll see if they can swing that here in PA too. Right now I have collector ins through them and it is pretty reasonable.

Hope I'm wrong on Haggerty, I'd like another option in case statefarm can't pull through.

-Chris

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn May 12 2008, 05:40 PM

I think you got the makings of a script, sell it to Holywood and go 50/50 with Dr.E.

Posted by: scotty b May 12 2008, 05:43 PM

Miami Vice meets Dexter I want to be in the Evil business

Posted by: 1970 Neun vierzehn May 12 2008, 05:50 PM

Chris is correct about the restrictions that are inherent on some collector auto policies. My State Farm agent could write a collector policy (and save me some money), but it stipulates that I can't drive it to work, run errands, or do anything that isn't car show or parade related. No thanks. So they wrote a stated value policy that allows me to use the car anytime, anywhere, anyway I choose to.
I would, however, suggest everyone insure their car for the situation that best suits them. I'm sure rates will vary by carrier, state, policy holder status, etc.

Paul

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 05:51 PM

Oh ya, I forgot to mention that interfering with EMS in the way alleged is illegal (as I was reminded) and if they find the claim true I will be expelled Like I said, I am not worried, but I am going to have to deal with this as it is unforgivable.

If I am involved in a wreck where I die in the ambulance you know who did it

Posted by: Travis Neff May 12 2008, 06:03 PM

what did you do to piss off the EMS lady so badly?

Posted by: Joe Mama May 12 2008, 06:05 PM

Based on most EMS twits, he pissed her off by being male and breathing......

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 06:07 PM

The only thing I can think of is that she was pissed that she had to return empty handed since we drove Chris to the hospital.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 12 2008, 06:26 PM

If you mentioned that you were a medical student, most emt's wanted to be MD's

but for one reason or another, life did not allow it. Some are bitter some are not,

they all do good works, but I guess it dosen't always pay to be a Dr, Evil (clever eh).

Posted by: LvSteveH May 12 2008, 06:37 PM

In many areas paramedics are paid quite a bit less than a UPS driver. Many want to get on the fire department which pays much better and can't make it. They get trapped in a low paying high stress job and it takes its toll.

I would check with the company to see if she's a chronic complainer, that could help. Given the severity of the situation you'd think they would want some kind of proof to kick you out. The biggest thing she has going for her is that she has no apparent reason to lie.

Good luck getting that resolved, that almost sucks more than the accident itself.

Posted by: ConeDodger May 12 2008, 06:43 PM

Mike,
Have all of your witnesses write statements to the effect that your version of the events are true. Give them to the school. At least part of what she says is true but she probably substituted resident for student. She had to have gotten that from you or someone who was with you. She either is a real f-stick or you pissed her off pretty good. Most medics wouldn't bother. They just want to go home when the shift is over.
I assume that Chris was willing to sign an AMA release? Did you impede her ability to do an assessment? Was he walking around? He no doubt met trauma criteria, meaning he might have been flown out and a trauma alert activated at the nearest trauma center. They would have alerted a truama surgeon who would have gotten a batch of x-rays and done an assessment in about 1/2 hour. The point of which is to have trauma victims in surgery within an hour of arrival. I don't know your local EMS policies but the intrusion into the passenger compartment would have activated a trauma alert locally here in NorCal. The newer the medic the more likely they would be to want to cover their bottom by activating the trauma alert. More experienced medics would be likely to call medical control and say I have a walkie - talkie with some venous facial trauma and a broken tooth who wants to sign AMA. Bottom line is you may have a political problem. Trauma surgeons have an enormous amount of influence because of the millions in revenue they bring in. If you pissed off the trauma surgeon the school may be getting irritation from him. Especially if the school and trauma center are connected. You need to prove she got it wrong. You identified yourself as a resident, you didn't interfere, Chris was the one who refused treatment, not you on his behalf.
If she thought you were a doc, what she wanted to tell you was that you either had to ride in with her and Chris or relinquish medical control to her local EMS protocol. Meaning control of the scene and patient was back in her ballpark.
Doctors and nurses are higher medical authority and can take over the scene based on that authority. Most don't though because they would have to ride in with the patient and be responsible for whatever they decide to do. Do you recall a confrontational scene with her? Did she practically insist that he take the ambulance ride?
Welcome to the politics of medicine. Sorry about your mess...

Posted by: rick 918-S May 12 2008, 06:45 PM

Lots of people leave the scene with friends or relatives to go to the hospital rather than leave in the ambulance. I'm sure they lost a fare. I doubt her boss was happy about it. I wouldn't do anything without a lawyer at this point. If you get kicked out of the med program at this point you will be screwed.

Time to do your home work and learn the law and how it will play out in the case.

Posted by: Joe Mama May 12 2008, 06:48 PM

Fade to black, next to the scene in the court of appeals, the Evil Doctor's lawyer is examining the EMS's Supervisor on the stand......the Judge interupts and in a slow drawl, he asks the Supervisor, "Tell me son, I say tell me.....this emPLOYEEEEE of yours, is she, a little bit of a nagger?"

Um, no Sir, she's a big old white gal about 5 foot 10.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 12 2008, 07:02 PM

All of what she said that I quoted was BS. There was no confrontation. We were all professional and I thought they did a fine job. I even thanked them for coming out and felt that nothing went wrong. I identified myself as a 3rd year medical student more than several times when a new person came and asked what happened. This was only so I had some credibility in telling those who needed to know how things went down. There was an ED doc on scene later that took over.

I know all of the Trauma surgeons as I was working with them at the time. They would rather a non-trauma not come in and are not involved at all with this matter. The ED docs are the same. It all points at the paramedic. I am not worried about being expelled. I have plenty of backup

Posted by: Wanna9146 May 12 2008, 08:46 PM

I have Hagerty on 5 of my cars. They are great. No claims, so far, except towing.

There are limitations:

1) Vehicle must be in a locked garage when not in use/overnight.
2) Limited mileage (rumoured to be 5k/yr., but they never checked/asked).
3) To/from shows/events/track/shop only. Occasional "pleasure use" OK (e.g. cruise to a restaurant for dinner on Sat. night).
4) You must have another insured/registered vehicle (Daily Driver). One daily driver for each licensed member of the household.
5)No using vehicle for errands or in place of your daily driver. If your daily driver breaks down, you can't hop in your "classic" and use it as a replacement.
6) Driver must be at least 25 years old with no tickets/accidents/claims.
7) Vehicle must be a classic, collectible or "exotic".

Go to their website (www.hagerty.com). They list all the restrictions there.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 12:07 PM

Today finds me wondering what is going on on their end. I got an email regarding the one I sent them with the valuation information. Their email asked where the recipts were for the upgrades I did to my car. I am wondering why that matters considering their tune had been that htey are not going to pay for any of that. I dont have any recipts as I did the work my self and I had all the parts sitting around for a few years until I finally put them on the car. WTF is going on? What should I do?
I reiterated that what I sent them was intended to bolster my position that my car, in stock form before any of the expensive mods for which they said they would not pay, was worth considerably more than the initial settlement offer. They seemed to act like that was not of interest to them now and they only want to know what the parts cost. A strange change in behavior.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 13 2008, 12:12 PM

I would write them a reciept, you did it, whats your time worth?

Posted by: brer May 13 2008, 12:27 PM

so they are asking "what you got into it" as a way to figure "what you'll take" ??

Posted by: ericread May 13 2008, 12:33 PM

At this point I would think that you need a professional appraisal of your car. Since you cannot show what it cost to put together your car, you need to show a fair valuation of the car by a neutral third-party that has the professional ability to provide such an appraisal. Possibly someone like... George Hussey?

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 02:12 PM

I already offered to have George and my friend, Ron the 914 dealer and appraiser talk to them, but they are not biting yet. I still need to get George the remainder of the damage estimate so he can complete his analysis.

Posted by: ericread May 13 2008, 02:14 PM

They probably would love to not consider such an appraisal. However, it you provide it to them, it is something they cannot ignore.

In my audit work, if I don't see it, I don't have to consider it. Once I see an issue, I cannot exclude it from my work.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 02:31 PM

They are not allowing me to force them to talk with my appraisers. I will need to get my friend and George to write something up so that I can submit it to them. They were apparently unimpressed with the stuff I have submitted them already.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 13 2008, 07:07 PM

Yes, do everything in writting. The company has taken their position. If you want it to change you need to prove up your side. Do it now or you will soon receive a check in the mail in the amount of their offer less the salvage value and your deductible. This protects the company from bad faith by getting a check out for the undisputed amount. The ball is in your court. You can not wait until they feel like making more calls. Right or wrong, they have done their work.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 07:32 PM

So far there is not undisputed amount. I have disputed it completely and they can not send me anything until I say OK. I have several levels of recourse still left to me including the umpire. I do not think it will go there, though.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2008, 07:47 PM

Go get 'em tiger!

Posted by: Joe Mama May 13 2008, 07:48 PM

Send an inquiry to the State Insurance Commission asking about your rights as an insured and good faith insurance adjustments...make sure they get copied.

Also, don't you have a date stamped email or other offer for the car prior to the accident?

Posted by: ericread May 13 2008, 07:56 PM

Mike;

I can tell you're an agressive guy who likes to feel "in control". Definately not a bad thing for a doctor. But relax for just a minute. You're getting some really valuable advice in this string, but you seem to want to argue rather than listen to what's being said.

"Everything in writing".

This is a very important part of a claims process. It doesn't matter a bit what's been promised or told to you verbally. But you should know that every word you have said to the Insurance company has been transcribed in your record. The claim of the ambulance person; know now that the Insurance company has her claims in your records. You are fighting a battle of documentation, and unless you provide written documentation to the Insurance company, you are fighting a losing battle.

Your personal claim of expenses are not important to the Insurance company. You need the dis-interested third-party expert opinion of the value of your vehicle. An opinion which is has no conflict of interest between you and the party providing the opinion.

You have to put yourself in the shoes of the adjustor. Every Joe thinks their car is special and worth $100,000.00. Now this guy comes along with a 35 year-old car, which Porsche itself doesn't really acknowledge as one of their own, and claims it's worth a ton of money. Sure, he put a lot of personal hours into fixing up the car, but it's not like a Porsche dealership was paid to perform this work. If you were him/her, what would you think?

You may think that I'm being a dick by saying what I've written. But I'm writing this as a friend. Try to get yourself away from an emotional point of view and look at this as a business. You are being forced to sell your car and the buyer doesn't understand the valuation. How are you going to convince the buyer that your valuation is fair? Should the buyer simply accept the word of the sellers valuation, or should the buyer demand documentation which demonstrated the value is fair?

Anyway, we're on your side and we're all here to help.

Posted by: wilchek May 13 2008, 08:09 PM

wow Mike you have had a couple of rough weeks. Hang in there, just be thankful no one got hurt and I am sure things will play put in your favor.

I pulled this from Hagerty web site. Not totally an open policy, but it is liberal enough as it states limited pleasure driving.

Usage
Hagerty provides coverage for vehicles that are used on an occasional basis -- e.g. club functions, exhibitions, organized meets, tours and limited pleasure driving.
Storage
Collector vehicles must be stored in a fully enclosed, locked garage when not in use.
Driving records
Generally, one or two minor traffic violations or accidents are acceptable. We are not able to insure those who have experienced major infractions such as a DUI, reckless driving or excessive speed violations within the past 3-6 years.* All household driving records are subject to review by an underwriter.
Regular-use vehicles
Each licensed household driver needs to have a regular-use vehicle for daily driving and must maintain regular-use insurance in his or her own name.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 09:21 PM

Eric,
I know your heart is in the right place, but the things you advise me to do have already been done and I said so. I am not arguing with anyone here. I am letting them know what I have done in response to things they have brought up. If anyone here, my friends of many years no less, think that what I have done is insufficient to address the concern that they pose then they are welcomed to, and inclined to in my experience, tell me where they think I missed the point.

On another note, I find it humorous that you think I am an aggressive guy. Those that have met me and know me can attest that I am pretty damn laid back and I have no aspirations for being in control of everything. It is amazing how we come across in prose vs how we actually are in real life.

To recap what I have done to date (digest version):

- Enlisted the help of George Hussey and my friend Ron Light. I have asked both to give me a written valuation of my car. Ron has said he will have it ready tomorrow.

- Sent the ins people copies of excelence values from 2000-20007. Sent them the info from the NADA valuation for my zip code.

- Continued to work with the ins company in a calm and professional way. I am not trying to fleece the company. I find doing such morally reprehensible. I have made no personal claim of expenses thus far as they told me it is only covered as a stock 914. Thus, I sent them valuation and expect compensation for my car with regards to it being stock and in great shape as evidenced by pics, and statements. They are the ones that changed their tune and now want upgrade info and receipts. (of which I dont have)

-The ambulance people are not involved. The cop that wrote the ticket isnt even involved yet. I have copies of all of our comms. I have not said anything damning or incendiary so transcription is not a concern to me. I had considered that since they tell you they record all conversations.

I think that is most of the points.

Posted by: Root_Werks May 13 2008, 09:30 PM

Dude.

Posted by: rick 918-S May 13 2008, 09:47 PM

Yes there is an undisputed amount. The offer they made to you. Unless you properly document your rebuttle they will, by law have to cut you a check and make a good faith attempt to settle your claim based on the current facts. (Theirs)

The one big threat for a carrier is bad faith and the punitive damage that goes along with it. A company will rarely be faulted for a fast settlement even if it's low. But let them hold onto a check and not at least pay what they figured the damages are and that can open a can of whoop Ass they don't want to deal with.

The early payment is done as a method of file documentation in the event this becomes a legal matter or a commerce dept inquiry.

Everything is documented in writting. Every call, every conversation, every offer, every inquiry. And the notes are very one sided. Should you need to dispute this matter with an arbitrator it's your paper trail against theirs. You should be making the same: time, dated notes on every conversation. I've said way more than I wanted to here.

Oh BTW: I'm saying the above because I happen to know the value they placed on your car is incorrect based on what we all know and the resources we have. I'm sorry you had to go through all this. Your a stand up guy. I really think we should have a comprehensive "How to handle your insurance claim for the best possible outcome" thread. I would be willing to contribute.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 13 2008, 09:57 PM

Shhhhh, say no more, there are ears here


That is what I have been told from other sources as well. Secret sources. I have officially rebutted their offer and have opened my appraisal clause. I will keep an ear out to see if they are intending to send me a check right off. I will contact them tomorrow and make sure that I am clear that I have rebutted and that it is documented. Thanks for the tips

Posted by: zymurgist May 14 2008, 01:55 PM

Good luck Mike. Low balling you on a car like yours is something nobody should have to endure.

I don't know about Hagerty, but I just put both of my classics on Grundy this year. Agreed value coverage with annual automatic increase in coverage, no annual mileage limit, I have to maintain a different car as daily driver, etc.

Posted by: ericread May 14 2008, 02:01 PM

My apologies if I misrepresented anything. You obviously have things well in hand. Good luck.

Eric

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 09:44 AM

Now we are talking

The revised total is $16,633.00
Less the new salvage estimate of $2000 and my $1000 deductible they are offering $14,510.98

I think this is a reasonable amount. What say yous?

Posted by: Vacca Rabite May 16 2008, 09:48 AM

Mike, when I saw that you bumped this thread my first thought was "Stop posting unless you have some good news, dammit!"

Well, I'd say this was good news. Take the money, buy back the car, and be happy (as one can post accident).

I'm glad this chapter is closing and an new one can begin.

Zach

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 16 2008, 09:55 AM

One for the Good Guys...

Posted by: type11969 May 16 2008, 09:58 AM

Sounds fair, congrats!

Posted by: !Wet Spot! May 16 2008, 10:14 AM

Well, it's a LOT better....is it acceptable to you?

Seems like it might be as you're asking for validation on an open forum. I wouldn't put it past them to be monitoring this thread....if I had as much in it as I think you do, I'd make a counter offer.

A legitimate offer as to what you feel it's value should be. Be reasonable as you DID have the extras under the radar and not specifically expressed in your coverage.

Hopefully on your next ride you have a more comprehensive protection package.

Posted by: LvSteveH May 16 2008, 10:19 AM

All considering that seems pretty fair. It looks like they may have actually done their homework as they increased the buyback to $2000. It always frustrates me when a fair resolution requires a lot of work and pressure. That means some other guy would have likely been screwed over in the same situation.

Posted by: zymurgist May 16 2008, 10:24 AM

Mike, if you don't find the offer insulting, I take it that you consider it to be fair. If so, take it and start stripping the carcass.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 10:31 AM

The only thing that bothers me is that they multiplied the salvage x4 as well. A junked 914 stock would not be worth $2k salvage, a /6 might. And a my car with the /6 stuff is worth more than $16k. I will see if I can get back some of the salvage. I was just about to send them a valuation from my appraiser for $30K....I think that shook them to make an offer.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 16 2008, 10:33 AM

That offer sounds pretty good especially if you get your wrecked car back, that car has got to be full of parts ripe for the picking. Find a clean chassis and start transfering parts!

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 10:39 AM

Ya, the car has a good deal of $$ left in parts that is worth me keeping it.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 16 2008, 10:42 AM

Evil, aren't you being paid for your car and then being allowed to buy back a 2.7 and all sorts of goodies to boot? For 2K ? I think Mike made a good point about:

All and all I am happy for you, considering you lost your baby, You get to rebuild

it and that insurance companies have no problem with screwing the public. My .02

Posted by: KELTY360 May 16 2008, 11:09 AM

There's a lesson here. Your coverage was for a cherry 914-4 for which you established a much greater value than what the insurance co. offered. They looked at your research and altered their their offer based on a more realistic value of a 914-4. In essence, they bought the car. Once they bought it, they 'discovered' all these add on goodies that weren't part of the deal so they're offering those goodies back to you at a value higher than -4 prices, but still well below the actual value of those parts.

My bet is that if you had worked to just establish the value of the car as a -4 you would still be getting the same offer but the salvage value wouldn't have quadrupled.

I think your idea of a classic thread dealing with insurance settlements is a great idea. Your experience, and those of others, helps set the bar for 914 values when calamities occur and owners are at the mercy of uneducated adjusters.

Sorry you lost that beautiful car after all the work you put into it. Now go build that badass bus!

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 11:19 AM

The shitty thing is, I didnt push the /6 stuff with them. Once they told me that those parts were not considered, I left it alone and pursued the /4 value only. I was hoping for only slightly more than what was offered, that $2K kinda sucked it.

Posted by: Travis Neff May 16 2008, 12:19 PM

That sounds like a pretty good offer, the only heartburn is the salvage amount. If they cut the salvage by 1K or at least 500 that, to me would make it right.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 12:47 PM

I just got off the phone with the insurance lady and she was much nicer now. Go figure. I asked her about the discrepancy in the /6 salvage price with the /4 settlement price and she said that they did value the car as a /6......they added $700 to the total for the engine and subtracted $300 for the missing door panels...which I told them were in the trunk and complemented the attention to detail that the inspector had I told them that I have a valuation from an appraiser for $30K, but that I was not interested in going after that amount. I countered with $16K and I keep the car. The lady said she would talk to her adjuster and have him call me to explain. I cant see them dragging this out over another $1500, and I think that I am being fair considering if they are now going to accept it as a /6 conversion I could be an ass and try to get more.

Posted by: r_towle May 16 2008, 02:38 PM

I would take the money, get the salvage car and go buy a nice conv, already done...
Then strip you car and sell whatever you dont need.

Rich

Posted by: LvSteveH May 16 2008, 02:54 PM

That's some pretty darn good advice

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 03:58 PM

I wont buy a converted car. Its not my thing. I have all the stuff to do a transfer to a good tub and I will be getting that tub done up by Scotty (paint and body work). It will likely cost the same, but I will know it was done right by me like its predecessor. It looks like this is gonna drag on until Mon, at least as I havent heard back from them.

Posted by: wilchek May 16 2008, 05:00 PM

Sounds like you are going to get enough to build a new car. The paint and body alone will not be cheap. Sounds like things are turning around

Posted by: Gint May 16 2008, 06:51 PM

Good show Mike. I think you're right on the money. You probably won't get $16k, but I'm thinking your approach is going to pay off. At least better than offered so far.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 16 2008, 07:47 PM

This would not have been possible if it wasnt for the help that I got from ya'll

Posted by: Dr Evil May 19 2008, 04:42 PM

On my counter offer they met me at $15K plus change All things considered, this went pretty dang smooth. I got the salvage title on my car (PA requirement for a totaled car) and faxed it to them. Hopefully I will get paid by the weekend.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 19 2008, 05:02 PM

Posted by: Root_Werks May 19 2008, 05:42 PM

Posted by: Ferg May 19 2008, 05:57 PM

sorry had too...

Don't be foolish and spend it on a bus

Posted by: sixnotfour May 19 2008, 06:02 PM

and the covair engine.

good news

Posted by: Gint May 19 2008, 09:35 PM

That's gonna hafta do...

Posted by: ericread May 19 2008, 09:37 PM

Congratulations! You done good!

Posted by: wilchek May 20 2008, 06:48 PM

Hmmm,, that may be enough money to turn that six into a turbo . Who said you can't turbo a 914. Congrats glad to see you got what you deserve.

Posted by: sww914 May 20 2008, 11:31 PM

That's a whole 10K better than where they started!
Not a bad 2 weeks work although you shouldn't have had to do it at least it ends well.

Posted by: Trevorg7 May 21 2008, 09:31 AM

Much better

T

Posted by: Headrage May 21 2008, 09:37 AM

Nice Mike...

So you in the market for a tub?

Posted by: stephenaki May 21 2008, 09:58 AM

Congratulations Doc, now I know what to do if I wreck mine! I also have USAA. Looking forward to seeing any new project you start on 914 or bus.

Posted by: rhodyguy May 21 2008, 11:02 AM

all things considered i think you did pretty well mike. more than enough $ to purchase a nice car to hack up. jk.

re the er trip. i recently got a ems/medic1 transport bill for a trip in the bus my mom took. $750 for a 12 mile ride. my guess is they're out that or about. she prob got reamed for relenquishing the patient. how is your malpratice ins going to view you treating the passenger?

Posted by: Dr Evil May 21 2008, 11:31 AM

Yes, I am in the market for a tub. My friend with all the parts local here is offering me a /6 roller that is supposedly rust free and is only missing the engine and drive train.....we will see. I will also consider a runner if the price is right. I have one under consideration in SC right now. I will post a separate thread so ya'll can tear it apart
I intend to use some $ to assemble a 3.1L corvair engine for the bus

Regarding the ER issue, I met with the dean today and it is basically a mute point now. Its my word versus hers and neither of us has a history of doing what the other alleges. I told the dean that I am feeling pretty bullet proof on this due to my 3 eye witnesses and I was considering pursuing this further. He warned that it may not turn out how I want (understood implication was that I may win, she may get fired, but I may make a bad name for myself). Now, the politics of medicine have become apparent. I am gonna let it go as I is not worth my time and I am not in any trouble. The incident is on file in the deans personal files should I need to reference it.