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Posted by: KELTY360 May 21 2008, 02:52 PM

Lately I've been getting a whirring metallic sound when I turn the ignition key. I switch it off, then try again and it starts right up. This doesn't seem to happen when the engine is cold - then it starts on the first turn. When I've been driving and then make a short stopover is when it seems to occur. The wiring at the starter and solenoid seems tight and solid; likewise the ground strap from the tranny to the body.

Also, I started to take the starter out, but after loosening the top bolt (in the engine compartment) it doesn't want to come all the way out. Is this a two man job with someone underneath to hold the nut from moving?

It's a '74 2.0 FI

Posted by: Travis Neff May 21 2008, 03:03 PM

sounds like your solenoid is not functioning right. For the bolt on the starter, loosen it from the transmission side, the way the bolt fits in the tin prevents it from turning.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 21 2008, 03:13 PM

If you need a starter I have a few sitting here from some parts cars.

Posted by: toon1 May 21 2008, 03:29 PM

Starters are very simple to either, fix, clean or rebuild.

I recently did this to mine, it's amazing how much dirt and grime is sitting in them( mostly brush material).

Take it out, take it apart, clean it, grease it and try it again.

Posted by: messix May 21 2008, 03:51 PM

vice grips on the engine side, it's a bitch to start the bolt when putting back together. two people or stick up there from tranny side then grab bolt on engine side with needle nose to hold it and try to start nut on bolt till you can use vice grip.

Posted by: Rand May 21 2008, 04:26 PM

Hey Marc, let me know if you need an extra hand. I'm planning on taking a motorcycle ride your way as soon as the weather gets a little better.

Posted by: rhodyguy May 21 2008, 05:23 PM

marc, the bolt head is captured in a notch provided by the starter. not so with am starters. engine out or 2 people.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 21 2008, 07:02 PM

Thanks Jon. I've already got one to pick up tomorrow, but if anything changes I'll let you know.

Rand - were you thinking about coming down between now and Saturday? I could use the extra hand.

Thanks for all the input guys. Can't imagine what it would be like trying to fix these little bougars without this place.

Posted by: SGB May 21 2008, 07:13 PM

I know this seems out there, but is the timing too far advanced? On my weberized 73, that symptom can be caused by overly advanced timing.

Posted by: Rand May 21 2008, 07:25 PM

Yeah, I'm thinking tomorrow mid-day or Friday afternoon. Are you going to be around during the daytime? I'll see what I can swing and give you a call.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 21 2008, 07:25 PM

Hmmmm, I'm gonna guess no. Timing hasn't been touched in the two years I've owned it and it always runs great (nokonwud). When it starts after the second try, it runs the same as usual. But, who knows, I'll keep it in mind if throwing money at it doesn't help - we need a money-throwing smilie.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 21 2008, 10:38 PM

If you need a hand on Friday I will be in Renton. I just listed a house on the plateau and will be there about twice a week.

Posted by: KELTY360 May 21 2008, 10:45 PM

That would be great. I'm free all day Friday. Give me a call 425.255.2556 - that's my office number, but I work at home. Thanks.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 21 2008, 10:51 PM

Cool. Will do.

Posted by: Greenguy May 22 2008, 12:49 AM

I’ve got a similar problem, when the car is driven for a long period of time (2 to 3 hrs), and stopped for a short period of time, it will not start. Turn the key and nothing. The first time that it happened I replaced the starter. On the next long trip same problem; push started the car to drive home then proceeded to let the car set for a few days because I thought I had gone through another starter. Two days later I was getting ready to replace the starter when I thought I would just give it a try….the car started fine. I had no problems with starting the car for about a year (roughly 6000 miles), but also did not go on any long drives. A year later went on another 3 hr drive, took a 15 min rest, then jumped in to re-start, nothing. This time I set the brake, put the car in neutral and crawled underneath with a screwdriver to arc across the starter terminals. The starter made a god awful grinding noise and I was convinced that the starter was shot, so I push started, drove home, and let set for a couple days. Two days later the car started normally and has done so ever since (about a year again), but again no long drives. To this point I have replaced a starter, bench checked the new starter, used Haynes and various tech bulletins to trouble shoot the starting system and everything checks out, no problems that I can find or think of. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them.

Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance,

Greg

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 22 2008, 01:01 AM

What year?

Posted by: KELTY360 May 22 2008, 01:29 AM

For a WAG I would suspect a resistance problem. Heat increases resistance and resistance impedes current flow. Inspect all wires and cables. Make sure they are the correct gauge and well grounded. Search for hidden breaks. Take a long drive but end it back at home and then test after a short interval. Good luck.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 22 2008, 01:41 AM

Greg.. I am wondering if you have a 74 that is having the seatbelt relay blocking it. I had this happen on mine and I had no idea until someone told me 74s had this issue. Just trying to think of the easiest things first.

Posted by: Tom May 22 2008, 08:10 PM

Greg,
Kelly is probably right on with the heat causing a resistance to current flow problem. Disconnect your battery negative terminal ( this keeps you safe while messing with the starter) and then check the large yellow wire's lug at the starter ( I think it is the yellow one,) closely for dirt or corrosion. I usually start with the yellow because this is the wire that carries the current to the solenoid to operate the bendix. If it is really dirty and corroded that can cause the heat to affect current flow to the solenoid. Cut the lug off and replace it and see if that helps. While you are there check the other lugs also. I think sometimes even a new starter will not help if there is corrosion or dirt build up in and on the old electrical connections. If everything is OK down at the starter, then I would trace the yellow wire back to the relay board and check the 12 and 14 pin connectors there for dirt or corrosion. Hope this helps.
Tom

Posted by: krazykonrad May 23 2008, 07:26 AM

It may be just your solenoid. Mine's going bad as well. When the engine is cold it starts just fine, but When its hot, it really takes some effort (or a hill).
Good luck!
Konrad