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Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:08 PM

Here's the plan:

Tub up restoration/customization (no cutting corners here).
Speedster styling.
40" tall
Under 1800 pounds.
350 horsepower WRX engine.

Let the games begin!

Posted by: KELTY360 Jun 9 2008, 01:17 PM

You are a naughty, naughty boy.

Posted by: Ferg Jun 9 2008, 01:17 PM

This is one Concours Weenie that say F*&^ yeah!!!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:20 PM

First off here is a little history on the car.
In 2002 I found this 1973 1.7 in a field outside Laramie WY where it had been sitting since 1982 with some other VWs.
After bolting on some webers and swapping out the battery, fluids, and tires I drove it out of there.


As you can see she was pretty rough but other than some surface rust she was darn near rust free.

Posted by: geniusanthony Jun 9 2008, 01:23 PM

Gee thanks, now I have to get a better job to buy a new house, bigger garage, new tub, and....

Seriously though, are those speedster humps I spy, what are you thinking for a windshield? Would it be rude to suggest flyscreens? I have been waiting to see what you were gonna do since you hinted at this way back when. GL Dana

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:25 PM

While in school I added a custom cage and interior both of which will be modified during the course of this project.
Here is a picture of the 914 about a month after I found it, next to it is my '37 Plymouth street rod.
As you can see I had already installed the rollcage when this picture was taken.


After school I moved to Las Vegas to work for Renegade Hybrids. This is when I really started upgrading the car.
Here is a picture of the car with stock body and drivetrain after I had installed the carrera front suspension and polished fuchs.


Here is a random pic I found, the car was my daily driver and I could only weld on half a set of flairs per weekend.
As you can see this shot was taken after the first weekend...


At Renegade we designed the 914 WRX conversion kit using my car as the test bed.
My car is running a 2004 WRX engine with exhaust and computer mods bumping the power up to around 320HP.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:28 PM

The car has been featured by SubieSport magazine and by several online publications including Cardomain.





I drove the car in its subie powered form as a daily driver for about 2 years then decided to move to Wyoming to pursue a Mechanical engineering degree.
I have now transfered into the Architectural Design program at CU Boulder.
I bought a real car for a daily driver and figured now would be a great time to build the street monster I had been dreaming of.
I am going to take my time and build this thing right.

Posted by: ericread Jun 9 2008, 01:30 PM

That's a sweet looking mod you're planning. I, for one, don't go in for most of the mods shown in this board. I believe that most of these do nothing to add to the 914 experience. Your design appears to me as the exception!

I can't wait to see more!

Posted by: Kirmizi Jun 9 2008, 01:36 PM

You're one sick puppy Dana... LOL
Can't wait to see this one when it's finished!!
Mike

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:38 PM

The technical details:

2004 Subaru EJ20
Custom up-pipe
SS Wrx Header
3.5-inch straight pipe exhaust
Renegade Hybrids radiator
KEP stage 2 pressure plate
KEP 9-inch Kevlar clutch disk
KEP billet aluminum adapter plate
Renegade Hybrids high power axles
911 Carrera front suspension
Cantilever rear suspension
Qa1 adjustable Struts, 400-pound springs
2002 Porsche 996 rims 17 x 7-inch front 17 x 9-inch rear
Kumho 712 tires 205/50/17zr front, 255/40/17zr rear
Steel AA 914GT fender flares
Custom roll cage
Custom interior
No radio
No top
No windows
Getty C/F Rear lid
GT-Racing F/G non-headlight Front lid
Getty F/G Bumpers
Getty F/G Rockers
Chopped and raked windshield
Pontiac Solstice door mirrors
Customized Porsche Boxster Humps
Ferrari F430 rear diffuser
F/G Belly Pan

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 01:48 PM

To keep track of my progress have been documenting my weight savings with excel.
Here is my spreadsheet showing the part removed or replaced, the resulting weight and power to weight ratio, along with the info from a few other cars for refrence. So far I have dropped just over 500 pounds.
I have a feeling this car will kill me if I ever get it on the road.

Posted by: KaptKaos Jun 9 2008, 01:53 PM

I like your pic above. I always thought that a speedster style windshield would look cool on a 914.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 02:13 PM

I finished scraping the tar out of the interior and gutted the pass side door.
I was glad to find very clean floors under the tar.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 9 2008, 02:18 PM

Is that such a bad way to go?

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 9 2008, 02:19 PM

Wow those floors look great. I had just done that a few months ago and mine were not like that.

Posted by: roadster fan Jun 9 2008, 02:29 PM

yesssssssssssssssss!

Eagerly awaiting the updates on the build. You say you bought a "real" car so you felt it was time to build the beast, but I think this will be the REAL car

Jim

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 03:45 PM

No turning back now!
I cut off the targa bar and made this horrendous hole...



The car is pretty much stripped but I am leaving the engine and tranny in for now so I can build the belly pan and design the intercooler system.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 03:49 PM

I got a heck of a deal on these Boxster Humps. The plan is to 'glass these into one piece and build up the lid to match the rest of the car. Then I will rebuild the metal around the area. I absolutely hate working with F/G so I will make the metal match the F/G lid rather than vice versa.

My dog Bailey checking the fit.

This just might work!

Posted by: Ferg Jun 9 2008, 04:06 PM

Baily's a cool looking pup

Ferg

Posted by: brant Jun 9 2008, 04:37 PM

nice pics Dana!

and cool car

there aren't many 1900lb street legal teeners out there
good for you!

brant

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 05:00 PM

I raked the windshield posts back as far as the stock windshield allowed.
Next I will chop the windshield posts so the top of the frame is even with the top of the rollbar hoops.
I found a guy that will cut the stock glass to fit. Or cutting a lexan one is always an option if all else fails.

Here's how things are looking now.

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 9 2008, 05:12 PM

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 9 2008, 05:20 PM

That's just cool Dana. Can't wait to see where this goes.

Posted by: (*)(*) Jun 9 2008, 05:28 PM

For some reason, I'm down wit dis....

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 05:30 PM

Me too!

I think I will start doing some glassing this afternoon, gross...

Posted by: Rand Jun 9 2008, 05:36 PM

I've been waiting for this thread!
Love the concept pic.
Keep it coming Dana!

Posted by: scotty b Jun 9 2008, 07:06 PM

Wyotech would frown on the use of fibreglass

Killer idea. Can't wait to see it done

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 07:12 PM

Yeah, I should be rolling these out of aluminium on my english wheel
I want this car to be nice, but screw that!

Posted by: scotty b Jun 9 2008, 07:15 PM

Get a stump boy Stump, ball peen hammer, oxy acetylene torch and a cigar is all any good body man needs

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 07:32 PM

A stump sounds pretty good right now. Where's the "sticky fiberglass hands" smiley?
I was thinking of lighting up a cuban but with the amount of fumes filling up the garage an explosion would probably follow promptly!

Posted by: Dr Evil Jun 9 2008, 09:59 PM

ooooo Me likey

Posted by: 3d914 Jun 9 2008, 10:00 PM

This is very cool!

Make them cry BIG TIME . . .

Posted by: jgara962 Jun 9 2008, 10:09 PM

I personally like any modifications to at least look period correct, but man, I can't wait to see this thing finished! It's going to look cool.

Posted by: championgt1 Jun 9 2008, 10:13 PM

Unreal! Nice!

Posted by: LarryR Jun 9 2008, 10:14 PM

man this thing is sweet! I wish I could do body work like that.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 10:24 PM

I started 'glassing the humps today and remembered how terrible fiberglass is to work with.
I 'glassed the two halves together and filled in the area at the back of the lid between the humps. Despite my total lack of skill I think it's coming along pretty well. It's a good thing I got these humps for cheap because the quality was terrible (good thing I am just cutting them up huh?)

To blend in the sides I am stretching polarfleece and glassing it (a trick used by audio guys to build complicated sub boxes). The fleece creates really nice transitions and when covered by F/G cloth is really strong.



Here are some more shots of the car and the garage.



Thanks for the support guys, this is gonna be fun!

Posted by: craig downs Jun 9 2008, 10:29 PM

I'm usually not a fan of projects like these but this one is different. I like the look and the design. I'd say your committed now and no turning back. Looking good

Posted by: somesonofabeach Jun 9 2008, 10:30 PM

This thing already looks completely badass and its still on jack stands. What are your ideas for the interior? It could be completely bare and this car would still be amazing by the look of things so far.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 9 2008, 10:34 PM

I will be replacing the interior, some seats with good bolsters would be nice.
Wow, now that I look at the pics I really need to chop that windshield ASAP!

Posted by: Jeff Hail Jun 9 2008, 10:39 PM

This is an awesome project. I like it because it has style, it's clean and it flows. You have a good eye for line and proportion. Follow your instincts and not the crowd.

Many people frown on cutting up a car and modifying it. In my book anything that is not concourse to start is a candidate for customization. A free canvas is what makes the end result a masterpiece.

Reminds me of that TV show from the late 80's "Max Headroom" Stay low!

Posted by: rick 918-S Jun 9 2008, 11:14 PM

Very cool!

Posted by: ericread Jun 10 2008, 09:24 AM

Truely an awesome look! Great job !!!

Are you going to build a rag top for it, or is it a fair weather ride only?

Posted by: 914rrr Jun 10 2008, 09:44 AM

A word of caution. A friend of mine in FL built a car similar to yours with a chopped and raked windshield. His was a low buck build with a plexi windshield on a rusty POS chassis that I sold him for $200. The next owner wanted a glass windshield, and a 'pro' broke 3 or 4 windshields attempting to cut it down to size.

Killler project, best of luck with it!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 10:34 AM

I was playing around with the concept of a lift off hard top with drop in windows.
It would be hard to build but it would really make the car alot more useable. We shall see...

Posted by: ericread Jun 10 2008, 10:42 AM

The lift off hard top looks sick. Sweet!!! Now to get the price for these down to under $20,000.

You are putting this model into production aren't you???

Posted by: seanery Jun 10 2008, 12:43 PM

what a bitchin' project!

I like where this is going

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 12:44 PM

I added a layer of F/g last night:



I sanded the humps down this morning. There are a couple low spots but the shape is getting pretty close. I should be able to get it straight with one more glassing session, after that I will finish the bottom and edges.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 10 2008, 12:50 PM

Looking good

Posted by: Rand Jun 10 2008, 01:03 PM

Is that piece going to lift off or be hinged (for engine access)?
Are you keeping the retractable wing/brake widget, or is that gone now?
Nice work Dana. Loving this!

Posted by: mudfoot76 Jun 10 2008, 01:05 PM

Damn that is sweet!

Posted by: Travis Neff Jun 10 2008, 01:18 PM

How are you going to vent the engine compartment, all from below? Howza bout grill material between the humps, a la C-GT


Attached image(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 02:20 PM

Yes it is going to hinge. I am going to figure out how that will work after I rebuild the metal around the engine bay.

The spoiler is gone, it was fun while it lasted but it was heavy and created alot of drag. Now I am using a Ferrari F430 diffuser for downforce.

I have looked hard at the C-GT engine lid. I will probably be bringing in air from between the humps for the intercooler and venting the engine bay out the back of the car. I have to see the lid complete before I can tell what will look good.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 10 2008, 02:24 PM

Must have been Glenn

I really like this project and the lift off roof will be very cool.

T.C.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 04:55 PM

Today I made a wood template to ensure that I install the windshield at the right angle after I chop it.


Then I cut the thing off so I can modify it. Looks pretty cool huh?
I also test fitted my Getty F/G bumpers, they will need a little work but are pretty close.





It is so tempting to just toss the windshield all together.
Nothing like having to wear a helmet to go for a drive! (for some reason I don't think the wife would approve. )

Posted by: nein14 Jun 10 2008, 05:07 PM

that is smokin'

Posted by: dw914er Jun 10 2008, 05:08 PM

I thought your car looked sweet before (saw it on car domain and renegade a while ago)

but damn, its gonna look good. I like the concept photo too.

keep up the work, and keep us posted.

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 10 2008, 05:12 PM

I really like what you are doing.... this is definately one of the cooler "mod" builds I've seen. Plus... I'm partial to Subies

With that.... I have to suggest you go a different direction with the wheels.

You've created (or will create) a low, fat stance for the car, and filled the wheelwells with these ricey, skinny-spoked wheels. I'd like to see you go with a more solid looking, less ricey wheel. I personally like mesh style wheels, but there are thousands of other options. Yea, you may gain a little weight, but I think that will be a small sacrifice for such a radical design.

What are you going to do with the "interior" portions of the car that are still painted?? Getting them all sanded down?? Just curious.

Are you sticking with the stock WRX TMIC setup? I was going to suggest a nice STI TMIC setup.... by the looks of the engine bay, I think it would fit nicely. I really don't think a FMIC would work with the radiator.... although that would be pretty cool.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 05:19 PM

The wheels in the concept are just for fun, these are the actual wheels I will be using, they are off of a 996.


As for the interior I will remove all orange paint and paint it to match the rest of the car.
I will be running a custom top mount intercooler, the new lid creates a ton of space for plumbing. Intercooler plumbing should be kept as short as possible so a front mount intercooler is really out of the question..

Posted by: Rand Jun 10 2008, 05:25 PM

I hear ya, but have to say I like the looks a lot better WITH the windshield like your concept photo.

That chopped/raked windshield, and the dual humps behind the cabin are exactly what really makes this thing WAY cooler than the other 914s without the targa bar and windshield that I've seen. Your design is working!

Posted by: turboman808 Jun 10 2008, 05:31 PM

Dam that is pretty sick. Makes me want to cut the top off of mine. HAHA

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 05:33 PM

It will be a heck of a lot more tolerable to drive with a windshield as well.

Posted by: scotty b Jun 10 2008, 06:38 PM

The roof....Carson Top


Make a buck from wood, PVC pipe whatever you think would be better suited to get the line you want, Then do the panty hose fiberglass trick. Viola you have a removeable top. Glass in some attachment hardware. Tkae a look at the quick top kits made for Jeeps for the front latches and maybe some sort of vertical pin setup in the rear. Obviously the pins would have to have some sort of tension put on them to seal and protect theraded rod would work but who wants to bolt and unbolt the F-in top everytime it rains. Peanut gallery ???

Posted by: MoveQik Jun 10 2008, 06:55 PM

Dana,

You are too damn young to have that level of skills! Get it together for RRC in September! I LOVE modded cars.

Posted by: Sleepin Jun 10 2008, 07:40 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2008, 07:42 PM

How 'bout RRC 2012?

Posted by: boxstr Jun 10 2008, 10:07 PM

If you do the carson top, cover it is Hartz cloth give it a convertible top look.
SO far it looks great excellent job.
CCLIN914SPEEDSTER

Posted by: championgt1 Jun 10 2008, 10:48 PM

Slate gray body, black wheels. You got my vote!

Posted by: lotus_65 Jun 11 2008, 05:10 AM

sure. i would do a Campi style http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Quick_release_ad.png setup.

schweet ride

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 11 2008, 08:49 AM

An upgraded TMIC is always a good idea, particularly over the 300hp range.

What brand are you going with??

My biggest concern is heat soak.... from a poorly ventilated I/C. How exactly are you going to draw air across the I/C with the new engine cover? I assume you're going to vent it somehow.... but how will you draw air across it?

Another question..... what turbo are you using.... and what EM are you using?

I'm REALLY interested in this build.... just curious about the route you're going.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 11 2008, 11:32 AM

Bell intercoolers, they make some really nice stuff.
I was looking at air to water intercoolers but they are pretty heavy as well as being complicated and really expensive. I will be putting in a grate between the humps and drawing air into the intercooler with fans. This is really the lightest, best bang for the buck setup and if I get a little to hot on full throttle runs an N2O sprayer is always an option. The engine bay will vent through the rear of the car which will be pretty open above the diffuser (more on that later...)

I am using a stock turbo. I ran with a group of subie guys in vegas and with out fail every time someone would upgrade their turbo they would regret it, oiling issues, lag, overheating etc... Subaru put a good turbo on this engine and I intend to keep it.

I had the stock computer tuned by Vishnu Performance who did a custom job to suit my car. These guys are really talented and can pull huge numbers out of the subie engine.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 11 2008, 11:44 AM

The more I research a carson style top the more I like it. I would obviously use less padding than the hot rod guys but if I could make it look like a 'vert top it would be pretty sweet. If I am going to make it to RRC (some day) a top would be good. It would be really cool to be able to swap from a dedicated speedster to a coupe, it would be like having two cars!

Posted by: Spoke Jun 11 2008, 11:46 AM

This is what a 914 built in 2009 might look. Awesome hood/cowl treatment. You've taken a lot of the ugly out of the 914 with this. Can't wait to see the finished product. Keep the pics coming.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 10:46 AM

My dogs decided to wake me up at 4:45 and I couldn't get back to sleep so I got an early start on the car today
I added a layer of 'glass to the humps.
I chopped the windshield frame and mocked it up on the car.
I need to do a little welding and cleanup to the frame such as rounding the top edge and corners before I install it for good.




How funny is this, the car is on 18" jackstands and it's still lower than my Subie!


Well I think that is all for the day, I am running low on homebrew and found a good recipe for some cherry chocolate stout so I think I will do some brewing...

Posted by: jasons Jun 12 2008, 11:10 AM

Bitchin. Did you make the front hood too?

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 11:13 AM

I filled in the headlight holes on a stock hood but I am swapping this one out for a lightweight F/G one.




Low enough? As you can see I needed to make relief cuts in the top corners to be able to spread the pillers to fit the cowl.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 12 2008, 12:06 PM

Looking very good. You do some nice work Dana.

Posted by: i love porsche Jun 12 2008, 01:25 PM

wow...as if your car was not already gorgeous enough..this is going to be ridiculously awesome

Posted by: Ferg Jun 12 2008, 01:36 PM

I think you should paint it brown

Very Cool Dana, I think the early 356 grey would look sweet, I think it's Dove grey??

Ferg

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 02:19 PM

I do really like the dove grey, its a nice warm color. Right now I am leaning towards the slate grey but knowing me I will probably change my mind about 100 times before it gets painted.

Posted by: seanery Jun 12 2008, 02:24 PM

just pick a color that will show off the great work you've done/are doing.

Color can make a huge difference. For example, my red 951's lines seem a bit softer than my previous black 951.

Posted by: Ferg Jun 12 2008, 02:29 PM

IMO a NON metalic would work best on a car such as this...

Sahara Beige would be sweet

Posted by: Zundfolge Jun 12 2008, 02:53 PM

For color, I'd love to see you just polish up the metal a bit and remove some of the tooling marks, then just clear coat it ... kind of like the Renegade Hybrids Subie (would be very 550 spyder-esque).

Then paint all the fiberglass parts a nice metallic silver ... or black.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 02:56 PM

A non-metallic would be a lot easier to spray and repair should I hit a moose. ( a real possibility up here!) Oh well, good thing I have some time to figure it out!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 03:04 PM

This is the Renegade Hybrids Subie!

Posted by: Zundfolge Jun 12 2008, 03:05 PM

Ok, I'm a dork

Posted by: ericread Jun 12 2008, 03:09 PM

No, I don't think that's the same one...

Posted by: James Adams Jun 12 2008, 03:12 PM

Nahh, it's so low you can just drive between the moose's legs!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 03:14 PM

My bad, sorry.

Posted by: Krieger914 Jun 12 2008, 03:15 PM

This may turn out to be the best looking 914 EVER!

Posted by: ericread Jun 12 2008, 03:24 PM

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 12 2008, 05:00 PM

You know...... you could go with a slightly used VF39 (Stock STI turbo), and a set of Subaru "blue" 06-07 555cc injectors (Stock 06-07 WRX injectors).... and still be 100% OEM Subaru parts....... and probably put down another 100-125 horsepower..... safely and reliably

You're always gonna have guys with oiling problems, tuning problems, backfiring, and all sorts of other crap. Without fail, every time I hear about guys having problems like that...... they've done something wrong, or cut corners that they shouldn't have.

It's just a suggestion..... I went that route... and just crossed over 30K miles... with zero problems whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not beating you up at all... I think what you're doing is awesome..... in fact, I'm planning a similar project for the future.

In fact..... your car is the reason I bought my first issue of Subiesport.

Now, I own 2 Subies, one of which has one of the highest viewed build threads on two different national Subie sites.,.. and I even own my own Subie Site.

I just get the impression you're leaning away from a Turbo swap because of others' bad experiences. Do it right, the FIRST time, and you'll be absolutely tickled with the results.

Please keep posting.... I'm subscribed

Posted by: Rand Jun 12 2008, 05:16 PM

Now THAT was funny. Oy.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 06:05 PM

100-125 MORE horsepower in a 1900 pound car? That sounds terrifying!
You are such a bad influence, I suppose I need a 930 transaxle too while I am at it?

Posted by: Zaney Jun 12 2008, 06:41 PM

Just to throw a grenade into your planning...

I found this part on a Rocketrally site. 6 speed AWD to RWD conversion sleeve.
If it would work with a STi six speed with your current engine and the other proposed Mods, it would be the Best Damn Teener hands down!

http://www.rocketrally.com/website/index.php?option=com_oscommerce&osMod=product_info&cPath=40_182_221&products_id=40

Awesome project! Gives me inspiration for my Suby conversion!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 07:11 PM

Throw as many grenades as you want! There are a ton of really smart people on this board and I really enjoy hearing everyones input.

As far as your personal grenade: I really do think an STI tranny would be great for this car. I know I could make it work, the only question is if my wallet and my patience could handle it. Thanks for the link!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 07:57 PM

So I finished my other project for the day, say hello to 5 gallons of sweet cherry chocolate stout! Give it about a month and it will be perfect.



Check out the stainless steel DC sports header I installed along with a custom up-pipe I built. Purty aint it?
It frees up some horses and is 12.2 pounds lighter than the stock manifold

Posted by: ericread Jun 12 2008, 09:16 PM

First: The pipes are awesome - belongs in the Gugenheim (that's a museum for you gearheads out there).
Second: About the chocolate stout - What octane is it and how hot does it burn? You really don't drink that sh*t do you???

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 09:29 PM

4% alky
Not very
Heck yes! It looks like mud now because the junk hasn't settled yet. Give the yeast some time, it will clear, get kegged, and become a tasty libation!

And yes, the header is a work of art, DC makes some nice stuff.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 12 2008, 09:31 PM

I want some

Posted by: ericread Jun 12 2008, 09:33 PM

I'll be in Vegas the weekend of June 28th. Will it be ready by then?????

(hint, hint)

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 09:39 PM

Got out of that crazy town but if you ever come through Laramie a cold one will be waiting for ya

Wow up to 100 posts already! Thanks for the support guys!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 12 2008, 10:09 PM

Tonight I pulled my tank and gutted everything in the front trunk, I bagged and tagged everything, next stop for the parts I am keeping is the powder coater.

I will be welding up all of the un-needed holes then stripping the remaining paint in preparation for primer.

Posted by: lotus_65 Jun 12 2008, 10:18 PM

...has something to do with a sick whip i think...

Posted by: somesonofabeach Jun 12 2008, 11:45 PM

I didn't think it was possible to have a gas tank area that clean. Yours looks better than factory compared to mine. KEEP UP THE AMAZING WORK!!!!

Posted by: ninefourteener Jun 13 2008, 09:08 AM

Yup.... My 2006 WRX (stock) is 230hp, after 25% in drivetrain loss, you're only looking at about 175 hp to the wheels.

Bellmouth downpipe, 3-inch exhaust, and a cobb accessport... I was at 285 hp (stage 2)... I think that ends up to be around 230 at the wheels.

Bolted on a VF39 turbo (it was a straightforward install), downloaded a free map online from Cobb..... boom, 362 hp.... just like that.... free, no dynotuning required.

I got ancy... and forked over $400 for some fine-dynotuning at Cobb in SLC.... they got me up to 304 at the wheels by maxing out my injectors.... 380-ish at the crank. All I've done since then was add an intake... so I'm guestimating right at 385 crank hp.

Keep in mind.... I'm turning 5 driveshafts and heavier wheels.... you're not.

My local club/website (SLCSUBARU.COM) has several guys running WELL over 350 WHP (close to 450 crank hp) on the stock internals. I've seen STI guys run close to 600hp on the stock internals..... It's all about the size turbo, the fuel system to support it, and the tuning.

I would say your biggest issue is going to be tranny strength..... and traction

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 13 2008, 09:14 AM

Wow! That is wicked! Thanks for the info!

Posted by: tdgray Jun 13 2008, 09:57 AM

Absolutley WICKED Dana... this is going to be one of my favorite project threads ever.

Keep it up

Posted by: Slider Jun 13 2008, 07:31 PM

Nice job Dana,

the car looks awesome

im looking forward to seeing this beast...

Posted by: carreraguy Jun 15 2008, 08:06 PM

WTF? IMHO your car (in its previous incarnation anyway) is the iconic RH conversion!
Subscribed for sure!

Posted by: ericread Jun 15 2008, 08:23 PM

Damn, I hate having to explain jokes. See, the expert identified the vehicle, then the person without any knowledge whatsoever, challenged the identification. Lastly, the expert, rather than fall into the trap of justifying his expert knowledge, agreed and apologized.

Another variation of this is when you meet someone, tell him "I know your, name... don't tell me... it's John" The person you're meeting corrects you and says "No, my name is Brent". Then you tell him "No, it's not Brent, I really think it's John". The fun begins when Brent tries to use logic to prove his name is Brent. At that point, you have drawn Brent into an argument over what his name is!!!



Damn... Now that's funny!!!

Posted by: carreraguy Jun 15 2008, 08:41 PM

I get it - kind of like - "My bad, sorry (not)"

Posted by: ericread Jun 15 2008, 09:09 PM

OK, it's not the funniest joke in the world... I try to being a little light humor to your dry, boring, nothing lives, and that's the thanks I get???

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 23 2008, 09:53 AM

Well, it's been a while. Between painting my house and haven't had much time to work on the car!
I snuck away last night and got the windshield cleaned up and reshaped.

I started out by using the templates I made earlier to position the frame where I wanted it. I was going to mount the frame so the top of it was even with the top of the head hoops but it just didn't look right. Now that the lift off hard-top is looking like its going to happen having the frame a little higher will be better anyway. I ended up mounting the windshield an inch higher than the hoops so now the car will be 41" tall not 40".


I welded up the relief cuts I made in the corners, then I rounded off the corners of the frame and boxed them.


I then ground down the pinch welds and rewelded the frame with butt welds.
As you can see I left a small bit of the pinch weld at the bottom of the frame so I would have something to clamp to for final adjustments, this will be ground down once I have welded the frame in place.
(Did you notice the wall? I did a little painting while I was waiting for the welds to cool, I figure if I paint it four feet at a time that wall will be all white by fall


Here is a good shot of the new rounded frame.


I boxed in the corners but left the center un-boxed. The interior side and back of the frame will be wrapped in vinyl and I will make a matching removable filler piece for the center of the frame. When I make the top I will design it so its front lip fits into the center slot (with the filler piece removed) for a secure and fairly water tight fit.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 23 2008, 10:02 AM

Here is how things are looking now.






Next I will fabricate the backing plates for mounting the windshield. I am going to plug weld in a second layer of metal inside the frame at the connection point so I will have a backed butt-weld, and double the stock metal thickness where the frame meets the cowl. I will then drill an access hole in the back of the frame so I can weld up the interior support plate, then weld up the access hole. If I do this right the frame will be much stronger than stock.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 23 2008, 11:12 AM

Looks sweet Dana.

Any chance you want to come out here and make me a cage

Posted by: byndbad914 Jun 23 2008, 11:48 AM

yeah, wow dude, you are doing some very nice work!

Posted by: ericread Jun 23 2008, 11:54 AM

I'm still not sure why you'd want to paint that??? It would look awesome with a clearcoat!!!

Great work. Are you sure this is your first 914 project???

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 23 2008, 11:57 AM

I expect to see the whole garage painted now

Posted by: BKLA Jun 23 2008, 01:18 PM

OMFG!!!!

We're not worthy! We're not worthy!

This is the coolest thread and build!

I feel completely inadequate! (Shrinkage here!)

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 23 2008, 05:45 PM

I could do a 914 "Pur Sang" in honor of the Bugatti Pur Sang
Polished steel and carbon fiber trunks and humps would be pretty sweet
Although it would be a lot easier to sand bondo than metal finish the whole car...

Posted by: kerensky Jun 24 2008, 12:04 PM

PWN pg 7...

Latecomer to this thread, looking pretty cool! Saw this statement and it struck me. If you really *had* to get your airflow for the intercooler from the front, couldn't you install a front-mount radiator and circulate coolant to an air-water intercooler? That way the actual intercooler could mount wherever you had space, without concern for airflow...

EDIT: D'oh, Mitchell, read the ENTIRE post. I shouda guessed that, as completely as you seem to have worked all this out, that you'd have considered and discarded that idea already. Oh well, looks hot, man.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 24 2008, 12:20 PM

Thanks for the support guys! I plan on doing some more welding tonight!

Posted by: Gint Jun 24 2008, 06:04 PM

Too cool Dana! Love the plan. You're doing with a 914 what I want to do 29 roadster.

Posted by: seanery Jul 1 2008, 11:10 AM

Damn, I love this thread...Dana - we need more! It's been a week!

I wish I had 1/2 the metal skills you have!

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 1 2008, 12:00 PM

no sway bar?
Andy

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 1 2008, 12:02 PM

I have been building a huge deck and re-seeding my yard so the car has fallen on the back burner for a little while.
I should be ready to resume work in about a week.

I am running a 911 carrera front suspension with an underbody swaybar.
And the car did not have a through body sway originally (two less holes to fill ).

Posted by: ericread Jul 1 2008, 01:29 PM

Damn it Dana, you need to get your priorities straight. Your yard can wait. Let's get back to this car right now!!!

Wait a minute.... Isn't this about the time your beer was going to be ready? Are you sure your working on your "yard", or are you just over-embibing a bit???

OK, I got a bit carried away... sorry....

Eric

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 1 2008, 01:36 PM

I bottle tomorrow!
"over embibing" sounds alot better than yard work but at least I am getting a nice tan .

Posted by: BKLA Jul 14 2008, 11:43 PM

Need Update, Badly!!!!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 15 2008, 05:04 AM

Sorry guys, I am in the middle of building a 1000 sq foot deck and after a full days work on that I have no strength or patience left to work on the car.
I will finish the deck in a couple weeks and will then have the time and energy to get back to the car. Don't worry you will get your fix in a little bit

Posted by: rebelmdot Jul 15 2008, 02:32 PM

Here is your Porsche Mural for your wall. If I come knock out that deck for you, will you please get back to the car?

Posted by: turboman808 Jul 15 2008, 03:43 PM

This is what sucks about living in the city. I don't even have tools I wish I could go out back and build a deck and do some welding in my garage. Oh well I will just sit at my computer.

I am jealous

I do get to detail cars for money but it's not the same.

Posted by: byndbad914 Jul 15 2008, 07:01 PM

I agree with some others... priorities man! I have had plans laid out for about 500sqft of deck that I have since reduced to about 320 sqft and I have still refused to start it too busy with the paint and projects on the car.

That and they both cost too much money, so I pick the lesser of the evils... last time I checked I can't drive a deck and I don't think the HOA will let me paint a black cross on it either

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 15 2008, 08:58 PM

Yeah my priorities are totally backwards, believe me I am hauling on this thing to get it done so I can get back to the car.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 26 2008, 03:21 PM

O.K. guys, the deck is DONE!
Here are a couple pictures of my huge deck, I think it turned out pretty well for being my first attempt at working with wood.
And yes now that this monster is done work will resume on the anklebiter on monday!
It will be so refreshing to get back to working on metal...

Posted by: ericread Jul 26 2008, 04:34 PM

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a deck. Here's an idea... Put a roof over it, some walls around it, install a lift, set up a ramp and you've got a second garage.

Maybe this will provide you with the extra garage space you need to complete your Anklebiter project...

Eric

Posted by: Wes V Jul 26 2008, 05:59 PM

I was thinking much the same thing!

Where is the round hole for the lift??

Wes

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jul 26 2008, 07:01 PM

Wow... You have a really big deck

Get to working on that car I have been wondering when this thread was going to be updated

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 28 2008, 07:19 PM

Due to public outrage regarding my lack of progress I have decided to start working on the car again...

Today I started out by tack welding in backing panels for the windshield frame, I figure the more metal I can weld into this area the better.



I then clamped the windshield frame in place and took what felt like an hour to make sure it was where I wanted it. I intentionally left a gap between the frame and the cowl so I could get good penetration into the backing plates.



Then I welded and finished the area. After I buy the right sized hole saw I will drill into the back of the frame and weld its inner structure.



Here's how things are looking now.




You can put away your pitch forks and torches now.

Posted by: Wes V Jul 28 2008, 07:33 PM

Wes V

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 28 2008, 07:38 PM

After finishing the windshield frame I went into the front trunk and removed all of the seam sealer. Since the car has no top I figure it won't be spending much time in the rain so seam sealer is unnecessary weight that can be done away with. I heated it with a torch and it came off pretty easily.



I have been keeping track of the weights of everything I have removed from the car so far and this junk is no exception.



By stripping the seam sealer I dropped 1.43 lbs which is equivalent to gaining 0.242 brake horsepower WOOHOO!

Posted by: scotty b Jul 28 2008, 07:43 PM

So um how about some pics of the Plymouth

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 28 2008, 07:45 PM

What are you bored with this project already?
I'll try to dig some up, they are around here somewhere...

Posted by: tdgray Aug 8 2008, 09:21 AM

Ummm... come on 10 days... WTH

Posted by: Wes V Aug 8 2008, 10:47 AM

Don't you dare say that you are working on another deck!!

Wes

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 8 2008, 03:45 PM

Or are you thinking that now that you have a big deck you don't need a sports car anymore

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 8 2008, 04:49 PM

Just got in from a 10 day 2900 mile drive through the northwest corner of the country and yellowstone park, give me a couple days to recover and I will get back to work .

Posted by: nsr-jamie Aug 9 2008, 11:13 AM

Wow, just finding out about this project, looking forward for sure to see it done. Nice deck by the way

Posted by: scotty b Aug 9 2008, 07:30 PM

Ahem...... hop to it chuckles

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 9 2008, 08:16 PM

Here ya go Scotty.
This is an old picture I had laying around of the Plymouth next to the 914. This picture was taken about a month after I drug the 914 out of the field where it had been sitting since 1982.
I can't seem to find my box of old pics so this one is all I have to post now.
I love that car and will get to work on it once the anklebiter is done (someday ).
Sorry for the poor quality picture, its all I got.

Posted by: scotty b Aug 9 2008, 08:18 PM

Kewl, Makes the 914 look a little tiny huh ?

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2008, 08:51 PM

So today I removed the headlight buckets and I've got to tell you it was a lot harder than i thought it would be...


Despite putting up a good fight I got them out with out damaging anything
I also scraped out the black tar from the bottom of the bucket.
Next I need to make a new hood seal channel for the bucket-less trunk.


Here you can see I had already removed the sheet metal that used to surround the spare tire when I installed the radiator the first time.
Also you can see the venting holes cut for the radiator air flow.


To replace the heavy pop-ups I am running KC hilites in the foglight holes.
They are not street legal by any stretch of the imagination but neither is the rest of the car so I might as well stay consistent.
All I know is they work a lot better than the stockers (and look better too!).


Over all I cut a total of 21.6 pounds which translates to 3.66 BHP

Posted by: scotty b Aug 11 2008, 08:55 PM

Nice werk,Nice car, nice bicycle too

Posted by: Lou W Aug 11 2008, 08:58 PM

Wow, you sure do very nice work.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2008, 10:35 PM

When I talk about the cars weight loss I have mentioned the equivalent BHP a couple of times. Since there have been a couple topics and questions on the subject I thought I would explain how I am coming up with these crazy numbers just to prove that I am not making this crap up .

The original weight was 2300 pounds and it had 320 BHP.

Since the car now weighs 1875 pounds and still has 320 BHP.

1875/320 = 5.86

So if the car still weighed 2300 pounds it would need 392 BHP to be as fast as it is now.

2300/392 = 5.86

If we divide the weight lost by the theoretical BHP gained:

425/72 = 5.9

This means that for every 5.9 pounds the car drops it gains an equivalent of 1 horsepower.
The beauty of this is that the lighter your car gets the less poundage it takes to gain a HP! Yay!
So there you go, bored yet?

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 11 2008, 11:22 PM

That's just cool. I want to get my car that lite.

Posted by: effutuo101 Aug 11 2008, 11:41 PM

Umm, last time I checked, Wyoming only had a law that you had to have lights, turn signals, brake lights and running lights. I don't remember the law saying that they had to be in the stock place. I remember the Cheyenne Police asking nicely if I wouldn't mind reving my motor, but ( year 2k) but no noise either. I don't think anybody is going to give you grief unless you get caught out at night in the rain, near Gurnsey.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2008, 11:50 PM

My brother in law is a Wyoming state trooper and I have spent alot of time with his "laws of the road" book, by my count the car is in violation of 12 major laws, so far...
There are a lot of laws like minimum headlight height and required front plates on the books in Wyoming but fortunately you have to be doing something really stupid to get anyone to care about it. So as long as I don't drive like a total jackass I should be ok
The only really obvious legal problem I have is that after I mount the diffuser there will not be any room for a rear plate, and that is one thing I think they may notice, better get on that problem huh?

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 12 2008, 12:18 AM

Rear diffuser? How are you going to do that? I want one

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 12 2008, 12:29 AM

I got mine off of a Ferrari F430, the thing is going to fit really well, more on that later...

Posted by: effutuo101 Aug 12 2008, 12:30 AM

Stater? Cool. Brother in law was a Sherrif in Cheyenne. Can you do a ricer thing and put it up on one side between the tail lights? a little work and you should be good. I loved making the run from Cheyeene to Laramie then down to Ft. Fun then back up to Cheyenne. Loads of fun. Mountains, curvy roads, sand dunes, then back on the freeway.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 12 2008, 01:10 AM

Don't suppose they have many of those laying around

Posted by: Aaron Cox Aug 13 2008, 12:27 AM

dude.. that is TASTY!

Posted by: dinomium Aug 13 2008, 03:10 PM

just fantastic...

Posted by: turboman808 Aug 13 2008, 03:23 PM

Got to agree this has me wanting to chop the roof on my 914.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 14 2008, 03:43 PM

Here's what you do:
1) Join a Ferrari forum.
2)Wait for some guy to brag about the new carbon fiber F430 diffuser he got because he backed into a curb with the old one. (It happens more than you would think)
3)Ask how much he wants for the old broken stock one.
4)Obtain Ferrari diffuser for cost of shipping...

Try it, it worked for me!

I am in the middle of patching up the damage now. Should be an easy fix. Wait 'till you see it on the car it is HUGE!

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 14 2008, 03:50 PM

I'll try that. Then I just have to wait and see how you do this.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 24 2008, 05:59 PM

I stripped down the paint inside the cowl area.


Between the original owner and myself we managed to add quite a few extra holes in the cowl that needed to be filled.


Since the car will not have any climate control I filled the vent holes along with any extra holes that will not be needed.


It was tough working with the complicated thin metal but with a little high build primer it should turn out nice and straight.

Posted by: Rand Aug 24 2008, 06:08 PM

Yah, such putrid rustage. OY!!!
Glad your tub is worthy. Keep it coming, ya freakin' weiner.
Dammit, I'm an envious SOB. Grr. Sweet project. Go go go.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 24 2008, 06:18 PM

I also received a F/G GT-Racing hood, it weighs 12 pounds for a weight savings of 21 pounds.
This brings my weight savings total up to 427.9 pounds.


I am a big fan of Getty's work but for some reason they don't make a 914 hood with filled headlight holes so I had to buy a GT-Racing hood.


Over all the hood looks pretty good but it was cut way to small so I have to do a ton of work to make the hood gaps anywhere close to reasonable. Also the filled areas are not supported in any way so they are really flimsy, they really need some kind of inner bracing to keep them from ripping off at speed.


Seriously Getty step up, I know you are busy selling parts to the 997 guys but it is time to start making some filled hoods, this hood is going to take years to fix.

Posted by: lotus_65 Aug 24 2008, 06:52 PM

now that chappy's car is done, this is the coolest thread on the net.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 24 2008, 06:58 PM

If this car ends up half as nice as Chappy's I will be thrilled.
Thanks for the support guys!

Posted by: Sleepin Aug 24 2008, 07:48 PM

...now I need to find a reason for my company to send me to Laramie for a visit!

Posted by: iamchappy Aug 24 2008, 08:11 PM

I agree with all of the above quotes. This is going to be fun to watch..

On my way to Jackson(my home away from home) i will have to make a stop while passing through.

My good friend Charlie who has a nice orange 914 -6 lives in Jackson, i gave him and his boy Sam a ride in my car the other night when they were in town.

Charlie wants me to transform his car now.....

Posted by: Gint Aug 24 2008, 09:42 PM

Too funny. What are you using to strip paint with Dana?

Posted by: Brett W Aug 24 2008, 10:03 PM

Since you are patching up all the holes under the cowl, you should add a piece of sheetmetal to box that area in and create and nice strong beam in that area. It will stiffen the car up and you won't lose any space.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 24 2008, 10:41 PM

I am using a DA and a wire wheel to strip paint. I have been taking my time so I don't build up too much heat and since it is the original paint it comes off pretty easy. I really should get the whole tub mediablasted but after spending $900 on text books money is a little tight!

Posted by: r_towle Aug 24 2008, 10:43 PM

Did you actually chop the windshield??
I know you were scared of getting it cut.
If you are getting it cut, please share the contact details of the company that is doing it.
I would like to send them a template to have cut from a 914 windshield.

Rich

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 24 2008, 10:56 PM

I found http://www.psautoglass.com/page.aspx?page_id=10 who said he would cut one for $450 (not including buying the windshield) but it seemed pretty steep so I am going to go with lexan, it's lighter and a heck of a lot cheaper.

Posted by: neo914-6 Aug 25 2008, 03:56 AM

My GT-R hood gaps needed ALOT of work and the lid to cowl edge rubbed too. I'm concerned about the flimsy corners lifting and am considering dual latches but I don't have much room with the Boxster rads. IIRC we both requested Getty CF full lids during the group buy but they just wouldn't make them. I went ahead and bought the CF front but abandoned the idea of trying to mold in fillers and match the weave...

Posted by: turboman808 Aug 25 2008, 01:35 PM

I'd be willing to bet that is the hood I sent back to them a month ago. I ordered form them for the same reason. No one else makes a race hood that I could find.

Chris made a hood using my stock hood and the headlight covers.

I would have loved to drop some weight but what can ya do?

Posted by: db9146 Aug 25 2008, 07:27 PM

Not trying to highjack this cool thread but what about Fiber-Lite Racing?

http://www.fiber-literacing.com/store.html

Anyone ever tried their front hoods or deck lids? They have a front hood w/o the headlight cut outs.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 25 2008, 10:43 PM

I bought the hood used so I am pretty much stuck with it, on the bright side it was cheap enough to make fixing it worth while.
And no, the guy I bought it from had nothing to do with the poor quality and fit, it was this screwed up when it was brand new!
Time to pull out the 'glassing gear!

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 27 2008, 04:14 PM

By filling the holes in the cowl area I added about 7.2 ounces.


Since this is a light-weight car I couldn't add this weight without cutting some weight too!
I cut off the remaining unused brackets and tabs, whipped out the hole saw and managed to trim off 7.2 ounces to counter-act filling the other cowl holes.


Here is the final product:

Yummy swiss cheese!

Expect to see a lot more swiss cheese in the future!

Posted by: schreiber Aug 28 2008, 10:55 AM

This build is incredible!

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 29 2008, 07:50 PM

Since I am doing so much to update the the cars looks I couldn't just use the stock mirrors. There are a lot of choices out there but i finally settled on 2006 Pontiac Solstice mirrors, they are quite a bit smaller (and cheaper!) than the Porsche Aero mirrors and I think they fit the cars style pretty well.




Here is what I had to do to make them fit. I had to grind down the base to fit the contour of the door, then drill and tap deeper mounting holes. It was actually pretty easy to mount these mirrors, overall it took about an hour.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 30 2008, 02:06 AM

Those look surprisingly amazing.

Posted by: roadster fan Aug 30 2008, 05:51 AM

Yup, I think they look good with the style of your build.

Jim

Posted by: byndbad914 Aug 30 2008, 03:24 PM

jesus dude, those look like a factory fit. nice work!

Posted by: charliew Aug 30 2008, 07:47 PM

While your changing things you could go to a 5spd subie tranny. A OBX LSD is pretty easy to put in and stronger gears are available. The OBX goes for around 400.00. Porscharu had some nice adapters made to use the type 2 larger cvs so the axle deal is ok you probably only need two inner cvs and the adapters if you are already using bus axles.
I'm going to try the suby with just the LSD mod and see how it holds up.
The one thing that will save this subie application is the two wheel drive and low weight.
As the other poster stated a vf39 sti turbo will make more volume without the heat you are now making by over running the 2.0 turbo.
I am still stuck on the awic to avoid the air flow problem over the motor.
Also while your in there I thought about cutting out the bottom of the longs and putting in a 2x3 rectanglar tube with one of the 2 inch sides removed to provide a channel on both sides for the plumbing. Once it's welded in it should really make the rails stiff. I know you have a nice roll cage setup but I am trying to avoid a cage.
I'm going to use all the normal tub additions to try to stiffen things up so I guess I'm really going a little different direction than you.
I really like the style you have come up with. I have always thought the 914 was ugly and you have made it look fast and lean. The soltice mirrors are very nice. Some else used a gm mirror that also looked pretty good.
On the 6spd. sti tranny the mod that was mentioned was for a REAR wheel drive not a front wheel drive as I am using from Bremar. The Bremar I have will only work on the 5spd.
Several people are installing subie trannys in 914's.
I also have thought about maybe putting scoops in front of the rear wheels for a air intake and the ataic. A fiberglass duct could be made pretty easy on each side.
I am so glad you are so far ahead of my project so that I can study your approach.
You are doing great work. Are you tigging or miging?
I did my first rust repair 30 yrs ago with a stick welder boy what a job.
I have been miging for a long time but I am now using tig and it's really the lowest heat and the welds are more malible. Also there is lots less grinding and sanding of welds.
My 914 will be a street car and I also don't like the stock lights so I am trying to work that out also.
This may prove to be the best thread I am aware of.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 31 2008, 01:23 AM

WOW, sounds like you have a lot planned for your project!
To answer some of your questions:

I ran this drivetrain for two years and am really happy with it, at 320 HP it is very reliable and I think it makes plenty of power for the car.
If it aint broke don't fix it!


I ran an air to air intercooler on this car as a daily driver in Las Vegas heat for 2 years and didn't grenade anything but i agree awic for mid-engines isn't a bad idea!


I have a mig and a tig, I use either of them depending on what the job at hand requires.

It sounds like you have a lot of great ideas, I look forward to seeing how they turn out on your project!

Posted by: hwgunner Aug 31 2008, 02:14 PM

Can I have this when you are done??????????

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 31 2008, 02:15 PM

Sorry Jonthan. He said he was going to give it to me already

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 31 2008, 03:00 PM

If by "give" you mean pay me $75K then yes Jon consider it yours!

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 31 2008, 03:15 PM

Oh... That's what you meant. I get confussed easily

Posted by: hwgunner Aug 31 2008, 04:50 PM

Toss in the movable rear wing and you have a deal!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: charliew Sep 1 2008, 11:11 AM

I'm sure the stock tmic is ok for the wrx at 12 psi but the stock turbo really makes a lot more heat when it is pushed beyond it's capacity. To make 320 hp reliabily you will need a bigger turbo that makes it's volume at lower rpm and makes less heat. BUT it will need a bigger intercooler to handle the larger amount of cfm. On my son's sti at 20 lbs of boost with a 30r turbo at the top of 3rd the turbo was making 340 degrees f. With a fmic it was 106f on a 95 f evening at the tb.
It sounds like you have a perfect tune on the setup you have. The only thing I hope is you don't get some bad gas and get to build a better motor. 320 is A LOT for the stock 2.0 turbo setup.
I have lots of ideas but you have done a lot more than talk that's whats important. You have really raised the bar for the 914. Who cares that you started with a really clean tub. This will be sooo much more performance and style that a lot of guys with bought cars will not want to be seen next to you.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 1 2008, 11:49 AM

Like I stated before I will be running an upgraded Bell intercooler, even though the stock intercooler did a great job of cooling over the last 2 years I drove it. I agree that an sti turbo is a great upgrade but I don't feel the need to replace the stock one. I had this engine tuned to 320 HP by Vishnu performance and I trust their judgement and experience, they told me the stock turbo is fine and after 2 years of beating the crap out of it they have been 100% right. The main key to making this kind of power reliably in this car versus an STI is that the exhaust has a very short trip to the rear bumper. I am literally running a 3 foot long, 3.5 inch perfectly straight tube from the turbo to the rear bumper, the exhaust has no restriction and trust me that unties a couple ponies and makes the turbo's life a lot easier. Not to mention the fact that the engine is under almost no stress pushing around my 1850 pound car compared to the tank like STI

Posted by: Twise Sep 2 2008, 02:48 PM

This thread is making me want to build another car. I cant wait to see how it turns out. Great job so far...

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 2 2008, 04:04 PM

Thanks for the great support guys! 200 replies and over 10,000 views, wow, how crazy is that? It is so great having you guys follow along, it keeps me motivated and excited about the project. It's funny, when you post a picture of everything you do to your build it's really hard to cut corners, you all are keeping me honest and my car will turn out better for it!
Thanks again!
Dana.

Posted by: jd74914 Sep 2 2008, 04:26 PM

The views really speak towards the craftsmanship. The work is awesome and your attention to detail is amazing. :trophy"

I think threads like this just increase the quality of everyone's work. Looking at your thread and others like Jeff Hail's are really good motivational tools for me. Now I feel compelled to finish every little bit to the best of my abilities. Thanks.

Posted by: g911 Sep 2 2008, 04:52 PM

Very nice work

Posted by: 749142 Sep 4 2008, 08:44 PM

this is will be the sweetest modified 914 ive ever seen. keep up the awsome work. keeps me motivated

Posted by: LarryR Sep 4 2008, 10:43 PM

I think the thing that I like the most about this project is the hint of old school hot rodding, coupled with excellent handling and extreme power.

What is not to like about this car. I cant wait to see it finished.

Posted by: tdgray Sep 18 2008, 10:52 AM

Anything... this is my favorite build by far... second only to Chappy's

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 18 2008, 11:08 AM

Sorry for the lack of progress guys, the whole engineering degree thing is really eating up a ton of my time, I am averaging about 6 hours of homework a night, sheesh. I have 4 huge tests next week, after that I should be able to finally get some work done!

Posted by: byndbad914 Sep 18 2008, 11:51 AM

don't miss those days! Best o' luck with the exams.

while getting my BSME a few year back I carried 17 units, worked 40 hrs/week and had an agreement with my GF (now fiancee) that Wed night and Sat night were the only nights I could go out. Averaged 6hrs of sleep per night so I hear you. I didn't even touch my project during that period.

Got the BSME, got a better job, and went from idea and bodywork to running in less than a year. I did my engine conversion stuff as my senior design project with a full analysis of the engine mounts, etc - figure out how to make the car fit in and kill 2 birds with one stone

Posted by: charliew Sep 18 2008, 12:21 PM

The me is so important in your life. My son hotrods a STI but he is chomping at the bits for my start on the 914 suby. He has a great job as a me and a great place to work. He has dropped in on a Seibon vender in Oregon on a business trip to see why his damaged hood had taken months to resolve. He travels about once a month. He is single and has a great income and he also has a great mechanical apptitude. The science and math overwhelm me on my hotrodding challenges. On that subject he is outstanding. He only lacks the hands on that will come very fast as he helps with our fabbing projects. To him programming is a fun but very time consuming challenge. I took programming in college (to me very boring) but when it makes the car go faster it is way more interesting and of course very different.

GPA is pretty important in looking for a big job but the mechanical apptitude that you have is something that can't be taught.

I was too lazy to finish college in the 60's, I thought my mechanical apptitude was enough so I switched to Industrial Engineering, welding, machine shop, drafting and design and etc. Not as much boring math and science, a lot more hands on. Needless to say I never got to where I could just buy the car of my dreams.

really though I enjoy making things other people want to buy.

Posted by: byndbad914 Sep 18 2008, 06:32 PM

Charlie brings up a good point - the mechanical aptitude will serve you WELL. I didn't get my ME until I was 30 (started out of HS, dropped out of ME when the Aerospace (AS) economy collapsed in SoCal, got an AS in Auto Mechanics and an AA small biz mgmt degree and went off to hot rodding.

After getting my BSME I got a job with a large AS company.. with just a few weeks of experience messing with the simulation software I was asked to consider a structural issue. I applied all I had learned working on tube chassis cars and where tubes work and don't work, real world load paths, etc... I beat the senior analyst and the computers optimizing software and I could hardly use the software at the time. I was the lead on that in 3 months... out of college 3 mo. and a lead analyst.

I am not BSing or tooting my own horn, just making a point that instead of going straight thru college - doing the auto thing was a better education and put me further in my career than 5yrs of engineering experience would have. You will hands down kick the ass of every one of your classmates when the time comes to start interviewing assuming you keep a good GPA of course.

I had a guy one night in DiffEQ ask me why I was so greasy (would literally go straight from working on building race engines and managing that biz to class), told him about my work and he said "You're fuching up the curve. Engineers are supposed to be stupid from the elbows down!" I will NEVER forget that comment.

Posted by: tronporsche Sep 19 2008, 03:45 AM

Dana, I know you are moving toward your design, but I have to ask you something. Since you have the skill, and are transfoming your car, but still have the 914 bloodline "look" (does that make sense ?) have you considered doing the front end like the "concept" car we have seen? I know what you are doing is a lot of work, but I just can't believe no one has done it yet.........Also- I know this sounds crazy, but for some reason, I keep seeing a chrystler 300 front end on a 914 !! I'm going to see if the computer artists can do one up to see what it would look like over in their post going on rite now (fake band challenge). Your car is looking great.

Posted by: charliew Sep 20 2008, 10:21 AM

I have crossed paths with several engineers that can talk very effectvely but can't hold a wrench or turn it without going the wrong way first. On my son and my adventures I have repeatedly told him to try to take something apart that he has designed. He is amazed at the effort of some disassemblies we do and how awkard they seem. I told him the first time is always the hardest and if you do it every day on "high maintenance units" IBM's term for junk, you get real fast, it's called specialized. In his job he travels and supports a product he helped design and of course tries to teach proper maintenance, but sometimes the operators really frustrate him. Overall most of the good engineers I know have loved every job they have had though. My job fixing business machines was not nearly as rewarding, and usually depressing. Only when the asian competition came along did we see a improvement in or own designs. I know they sort of copied us but their engineering was better. Electro mechanical control versus relay logic/mechanical control mostly. Most jap bikes are many times over better engineered than a harley. Even the vrod is a take off of the 83 honda magna, 130 hp., and still not as powerful it is a better harley though.

To me the front of the 914 is screaming for improvement especially on the radiator cars.

Posted by: carreraguy Sep 20 2008, 05:46 PM

As I recall, it was Dana himself who did this nice look on my car! Improvement enuf? ;o)

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 20 2008, 06:04 PM

I plan on keeping the front end pretty simple, I am planning on a F/G version of what I did on Tom's car except with the headlights in the foglight holes. Light and simple are definitely the two main driving forces on this build, oh yeah it has to look awesome too .
I got 2 tests out of the way this week and have 2 more on Wednesday , after that I plan on doing some more glassing before the weather turns. Progress will resume in a couple more days.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 30 2008, 05:11 PM

No big progress but given my crazy schedule I am amazed I got anything done!
The stock Boxster humps were made out of two thin fiberglass layers with a gap between them. Since I am doing extensive work on the humps I needed a thicker fiberglass base than the top layer was made out of.

I cut out the lower layer to expose bottom of the top layer.


I then added four layers of 'glass to the underside.


Now that the fiberglass is strong enough I can sand and smooth the final layer of 'glass on the top of the lid. This thing is almost done!


Hopefully I can get the rest of the 'glassing done before the snow falls

Posted by: r_towle Sep 30 2008, 05:45 PM

I still vote that you do the carbon fiber look (could be vinyl or just top coat) to the rear bumper, rear trunk, humps/decklid, roof, front trunk and front bumper...

Then leave the sides all metal exposed and clear coat that...

It would look awesome.

Rich

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 30 2008, 05:54 PM

Or I could just replace the fenders and doors with 'glass and wrap the whole damn car in C/F

Right now I am thinking about a simple non-metallic paint job, probably black or dark grey.
If I do a single stage I can spray it myself in my shop so I may go that route.

Posted by: r_towle Oct 1 2008, 06:49 AM

might be interesting with flat black satin finish...

Or
Chrome paint...that would be cool.

Rich

Posted by: Twise Oct 8 2008, 03:49 PM

Glasurit used to have this anthracite grey in a single stage. You could darken that up a bit and it would look dope. I like the idea of a black or dark grey - it will really show off the lines. Bling will just draw attention away from the shape of the body...

This is the first thread I have ever bookmarked. You got me checking this shit like every day. Keep up the good work...

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Oct 16 2008, 10:37 PM

Trev just turned me on to this insane build. sweet concept.

Posted by: biggy72 Oct 17 2008, 12:55 AM

I just finished up my ME degree in May. I really didn't have that great of a GPA and I will blame most of that on being in Formula SAE.... but I had a job before most of my friends so it worked out. Compared to the other younger guys I work with I am far and away more experienced at actually doing pretty much everything besides writing reports which I am catching up on pretty quickly. I don't know how much my boss is noticing of what I am capable of yet, but I know the guys in the shop notice it. Out of everyone at work I know the most about composite work and I learned it all because of FSAE.

How far into your degree are you? I know my junior year was the worst... and my senior year left me in the lab about 6 hours a day, then I would go home and do more hw.

What type of resin are you using for your fiberglass? If you want to make your glass parts lighter I would suggest pulling a mold off of the part you currently have, then make a new part with just the shape that you want. Also vacuum bag everything. We don't do it at work yet, but it only makes your work lighter and stronger, and it can be done pretty cheaply if you do it right.

After graduation, but before the FSAE competition I built the body for our formula car by myself in my garage. I wish I had a little more time and I wish the mold was nicer, but I think it turned out pretty well for only having about a month after work to build it.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 17 2008, 01:09 AM

Formula SAE looks like blast!
I have thought about pulling a mold off of the humps, I want to see how they end up, i they don't end up right a mold may be the way to go. Now that the 'glass is thicker I need to sand them down and lay on some primer, after mid-terms are over that is...

Posted by: r_towle Oct 17 2008, 03:03 PM

Its Damn hard to find the time to work on these major projects...the little ones add up to suck up all available bandwidth some days...weeks..

I finally chopped, cut, sectioned and welded the fender on one side...
I will post up a few pics in my thread to inspire you to go out and tinker,,
Its really fun doing the custom stuff....its alot more freelance.

Rich

Posted by: Loser_Cruiser Oct 17 2008, 04:35 PM

I ams like its gonna be pretty fun and I can get my car fix while Im away from the 914.

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 25 2008, 05:03 PM

I finally had a weekend off and decided to do some welding today.
I plan on cutting out the rear trunk floor but decided to weld in some rear bracing first to ensure that nothing moves.
I am not really sure if this will drop any weight from the car but it should make it stiffer and easier to work on.



I welded in 1/8" steel plate as a base to weld the 1.5" diameter 1/8" wall tubes to.
I weighed the tubes, plates, and the difference in weight of my welding wire spool and found that the whole structure weighs 14.7 pounds, next I will cut out the floor and hope it weighs more than 14.7 pounds .



I will probably also tie this rear structure into the roll cage.
The black structure you can see in the photos is the old mounting bracket for the retractable wings actuators, it will be removed along with the floor.

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 26 2008, 12:41 AM

I cut out the rear portion of the floor and cleaned things up.



The removed floor section weighed in at 6 pounds so it looks like I will be able to drop 5 or 10 pounds by replacing the floor with tubing.
I should be able to remove the rest of the floor tomorrow.

Posted by: Loser_Cruiser Oct 26 2008, 01:41 AM

Looking back at this it must have been margarita friday or something. Not meaning to hijack but I was try to say that Im joining the FSAE here at WSU pulman this week. I really admire all the work done on this car. I can not wait to get done with school so i have some real money to put into my car.

Posted by: Zaney Oct 27 2008, 03:49 PM

GO COUGS! (Served my four years in Pullman 92'-96')


Awesome werk DANA!!!!
Skillz baby skillz!

Posted by: byndbad914 Oct 27 2008, 04:07 PM

lookin' good - I sure wish I had something to weld Mendeola is still waiting on shift forks to assemble my transaxle

Typical "only takes two weeks to assemble and ship out" but they fail to mention the 4 weeks they will mess around waiting on parts. I will be lucky to have it before the really cold weather sets in.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Oct 27 2008, 05:27 PM

I could drive my car down there and have you weld on it for me

Posted by: r_towle Oct 27 2008, 05:49 PM

WOW

You are a neat freak prior to your pictures...

How are you making it so shiny??? Wire brushed grinder???

Rich

Posted by: byndbad914 Oct 27 2008, 07:45 PM

hahaha, Dana and I have talked about me trailering my car up to his place so he can finish weld whatever bracketry I need to make to mount the Mendy

Prolly don't want me welding - I was over at my friend's house a couple weeks ago and trying to practice with his TIG - I haven't really welded in probably 15yrs now (did in college and a little bit here and there after that) and I am WWWAAAAAYYYYY rusty hahaha. OMFG I about and gave up after an hour and had him weld some suspension stuff I reconfigured.

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Oct 27 2008, 08:39 PM

Dana, I sent you a PM.

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 27 2008, 08:58 PM

Let me know whenever you get that beast, given the good weather we have been having we could probably still get it in this year .


Yep, DA and a wire wheel, I love finding that nice shiny metal under the paint!


Sorry Jonathan the rear floor was screwed up from the rear wing mount so I junked it.

As for the car I just finished cutting out the rest of the floor and weighed it. It looks like I dropped 7.2 pounds by replacing the floor with tubes
My camera ran out of juice so I will post pics after it wakes up.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 28 2008, 09:57 AM

Wow, you used .125 wall tubing? You could have easily done that with .065 or even .058 wall. Plus there is no flex back there to speak of. The chassis doesn't bend in the direction you put the bracing. You could have saved 50% of the weight and still had the necessary level of stiffness.

Posted by: fat73 Oct 28 2008, 11:07 AM

Dana,

Man.....I've been off the forum for wayyyyyy toooo long. I didn't know you were doing this to your car. Awesome work...just what I'd expect from you.

Is that the same custom uppipe as I have from Renegade? If so, I'd really like to get some of those headers for my car. Any idea what the hp + is?

I'm still running the stock ECU on my car. I have another one that I intend to get flashed one of these days. But with 0-60 4.5 seconds, 24,000+ miles with absolutely NO problems (short of one broken transaxle), 30+ mpg on the interstate, I'm hesitant to change a thing.

Ed Hunziker aka W9R1

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 28 2008, 12:56 PM

When you live in a small town you use what you can find I had to look really hard to find anything under 1/4" wall!
I am happy though, even with the thicker wall tubing I still lost a good amount of weight.
As for the design of the structure, almost every 914 race car I have seen is braced like this so I figure it must work just fine.


My uppipe is a larger diameter than the renegade uppipe but the DC header will bolt right up to your car. If I remember correctly the gains were around 12-15 HP.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 28 2008, 02:27 PM

The suspension does not twist that way. Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it is right. Look at how your suspension moves. The rear shock towers see no lateral load at all. There is no reason to build that structure in the rear of the car. All the metal after the shock towers is pretty much hanging on for the ride.

When you need small quantities of metal check out these guys:

http://www.speedymetals.com

Posted by: fat73 Oct 28 2008, 02:28 PM

Is it one of these headers?

http://www.racepages.com/products/?N=1719+917+4294965131

Thx...Ed

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 28 2008, 05:11 PM

That looks like it Ed, any WRX header that does not incorporate an uppipe will fit.
I really like the DC header though, they make great stuff.
Good to hear from you buddy!

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 28 2008, 05:48 PM

I finished cutting out the rest of the trunk. As you can see it will be so easy to work on the drivetrain and managing the cooling around the engine should be easier now as well.
I still need to do a little welding around the frame rails to get everything solid but it is getting close.



By cutting out the floor and welding in tubes I dropped 7.2 pounds which brings the total weight cut up to 434 pounds so far.



Now I have to clean up the drivetrain because it looks like crap behind the shiny tubing!

Posted by: fat73 Oct 28 2008, 07:45 PM

Dana,

I'm honored to be one of the few that have actually had an opportunity to take a ride in your car. That was the inspiration for building mine right from the moment you scared the hell out of me in Las Vegas rush hour traffic nearly 3 years ago. Thank you for all the work and engineering you put in at Renegade that made the Subaru WRX conversion feasible and practical, inspiring those of us who want to modernize and improve on the performance of our 914s without having to think too hard, do a bunch of trial and error, or have the engineering skills of you and some of the other superstars on this forum (you know who you are...tony, scott, et al).

By the way...I have my car garaged in Tennessee at the moment in my shop. I have a few things to do, like Carrera front suspension/brakes, new windshield, and yes....paint. I've got to decide what paint scheme to use to replace the old Martini style scheme ( ideas are welcome), but it's getting tired (30 years old) and has gotta be done. I just sold a really solid 72 roller (from Arizone) that I was gonna build, but have decided just to work on what I have. Maybe some day...

I continue to be amazed how many incredibly talented people there are on this forum. I can't wait to see how this unique hot rod turns out.

By the way all you die hard Porsche purists....Don't ever take a ride in one of these....You may find you will have some crow to eat. You'll want one too.

Ed aka W9R1

Posted by: smdubovsky Oct 28 2008, 09:19 PM

Its not about the shock towers. Its about having to support the tranny ear loads (calculate the downward vertical force when you drop the clutch on a ???lbft motor in 1st gear). It sees more force than the motor mounts and people have torn those loose. Most people run the rear tubes to the shock towers because thay ALSO run the cage tubes to the rear shock towers, thus tying the tranny into the cage. Its simply a convenient place to bring the tubes.

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 28 2008, 09:50 PM

Well put, I used to have bars running from the cage to the towers when I was running a type IV but I had to remove them to get the WRX engine to fit. I just started prepping the rest of my cage this afternoon to weld in some new tubes that will clear the taller engine.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 29 2008, 10:45 AM

I was under the impression he was just doing the tubes and not connecting it to a cage structure.

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 29 2008, 11:04 AM

Yeah I kind of mentioned that earlier but it was hidden between the pictures (I had a hard time finding it and I wrote the damn thing).
Anyway I am wondering how I should do this, I have seen some people go straight forward to the cage from the towers which would work well for fore and aft stress but not very good for twisting forces. On the other hand I could put another X across the engine bay which would help to counteract twisting forces but only do ok with the fore and aft forces (and look cooler ). Any opinions?

Posted by: r_towle Oct 29 2008, 12:12 PM

there is little twisting force there that you need to deal with.
the passenger compartment firewall and the rear tubes you put in provide the shear strength for that area...the firewall doing most of the work...

The twist is forward of that firewall...put the car on jack stands under each donut only...then rock the rear of the fenders and watch the door gaps and door alignment as you do this...
the rear of the car...firewall back moves as a unit...the twist occurs forward of that...basically right where the longitudinal cracks....
drop a line down from the top of the windshield to the long...that is the stress point..
You will see what I mean if you wiggle the chassis while its on jack stands under the donuts.

Rich

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 29 2008, 12:38 PM

A couple things.
First, I am surprised at the weight savings. My eyeball job on the area told me that it would be minimal or a push. I've been wrong before. Taking weight out of the rear of a 914 is a bitch....7 lbs is significant.

Second. IMO you're doing it right....after you tie it into the roll hoop/cage. The hoop alone won't cut it for overall stiffness.

A lot of opinions ventured on the necessity of bracing various parts of the 914 chassis. Those are about as good as mine....except my chassis is stiff....for a 914. Could it be better, sure, I've seen better...or what appears to be better. Nobody has supplied numbers, just speculation. I don't have numbers either but my butt dyno revealed a huge improvement when I tied the front & rear towers into the cage.....shoulda done it sooner.

Posted by: byndbad914 Oct 29 2008, 03:26 PM

If I were me Dana I would hack that rinky-dink stock shock mount tower completely out and run a tube from the cage back near that area*, make a bend and head down to the trans mount and create a rear structure exactly like Paul (URY) did. Then I would weld a couple tabs on to mount a new, better shock with rod ends at each end. Get rid of that rubber crap in the stock shock (which puts a shock on your shock and I would rather have a hard interface so the shock can do its job).

* I say near the area because you would need to have the bar in that region to create the upper mount.

Here is a shot of my shock assy and upper mount and what I am essentially describing.

Posted by: jd74914 Oct 29 2008, 03:36 PM

Dana, I agree with Tim. A friend and I were looking at pictures of the rear cutout this morning, and we were both thinking a mount like above would be the way to go. Its not too much more work, and really opens up a whole new world in relation to shock selection and mounting precision.

Posted by: J P Stein Oct 29 2008, 03:51 PM

Due to some computer problems, I can't load the pic of a car which I think was done better and got rid of the "rinky dink" shock tower mounting of the shocks.

I think "Bads" frame is stiffer than most all racing 914......by God, it should be.
And, by God, he shoulda gotten rid of the rinky dink McPherson strut suspenders up front tho.

Posted by: byndbad914 Oct 29 2008, 04:15 PM

hahaha - working on coming up with a dual A setup up front (and rear for that matter) but not this winter.

Time and money... I had more time (future) than money when I did the front section, as well as already had the RSR struts and stuff in the "tub" car before. Converting a tube chassis car from strut mount to SLA is pretty easy once the money comes around again - just reroute a couple tubes. But after the latest transaxle purchase won't be for at least a year

I sorta wanted to do a power steering rack up front which I would want to build the SLA around (to remove bumpsteer i.e. set the front geom to specifically work with an aftermarket rack width). All that was adding up a bit quick at the time. There is limited room in the front to mount the rack, so since that is the limiter I want to have that piece first.

Posted by: Brett W Oct 30 2008, 10:42 AM

Yeah, since you are removing the rear trunk may as well go ahead and cut out everything including the fenderwells and just hang the back of the body off the tube chassis stuff. It would be lighter and you could make custom wheel wells in the trunk.

Plus you can use regular double eye shocks. I would come straight back from the fire wall to the shock towers with tubes, Cross the firewall underneath the the engine lid, right up against the fire wall. Weld it to the chassis in several places. Then build an Xbrace out of 1in or 1.25 in tubing for the engine compartment. Make it removable so you can get into the engine bay.

Posted by: BKLA Nov 18 2008, 11:19 AM

Update(s)????? Half a month is too long to wait!

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 18 2008, 06:29 PM

Just flew in from out o' town, I have some friends coming into town tomorrow but should be able to make some progress on Monday.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2008, 01:13 AM

Since I have removed my trunk floor I no longer need the turbo relocation kit, I figured it would be better to bring the turbo back up to its original position. Here is the turbo in its relocated position, notice the mangled oil lines, custom bracket, and intake extension.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2008, 01:13 AM

I removed the turbo and found that my intake was cracked and that the oil and coolant lines running to the turbo were also damaged. I ordered new lines, mounts, and a high performance silicone intake. According to it's maker this intake will increase performance by 10HP but I have my doubts, it looks good though! Here it is compared to the restrictive stock unit.


I installed everything and now my turbo is back where it belongs. And don't worry that missing nut is on order!

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Nov 20 2008, 01:24 AM

I love this thread

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2008, 01:26 AM

I also removed the remaining excess sheetmetal and cleaned up the frame rails. Next I am going to rebuild the area where the rails meet the towers and weld in the tubes that will tie the rear structure into the main cage.

Posted by: wobbletop Nov 20 2008, 11:48 AM

FYI... The newer Subies have a plastic coolant tank instead of the metal one. The top of the metal tank tends to corrode. I just replaced mine.

I also did the silicon inlet hose. My race shop says they are beneficial.

While I was there I also added the Hondata intake manifold gaskets. They reduce the temperature from the block going into the intake. Also, there is a coolant line going into the throttle body. You could remove that as well. I think it's only to prevent the throttle from sticking in (really) cold weather. People also remove the tumble generator valves (TGVs) between the intake manifold and the block to free up some airflow.

These are some simple things to improve on the stock design. Just trying to be useful .

-Walter

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2008, 12:30 PM

Thanks for the advice
I will have to take a look at the coolant tank in my '07 Legacy, it sounds like the plastic one may be a good replacement, I hadn't heard about the corrosion problem but after looking inside mine it does look pretty rough. I will also check out those gaskets, they sound like a good upgrade.
Since this is a fair weather car I have already removed the throttle body heater and plan on removing the TGVs once I pull the engine from the car. After I pull the engine I am going to re-route alot of things like the coolant lines to make the engine look cleaner.

Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 20 2008, 12:44 PM

Cool! Nice to see some updating going on today.

Posted by: effutuo101 Nov 20 2008, 10:41 PM

Very nice, I can't wait to see how the defuser fits in with all of this. Are you going to move the radiator to the back now? Looks like you have a bunch more room now.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2008, 11:15 PM

I had thought about moving the radiator to the rear but I think it will bring alot of extra heat to the engine bay. I have a feeling it will be hard enough to get the intercooler cool as it is, running a belly pan and diffuser will seriously limit airflow to the engine bay. Who needs trunk space anyway?

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 4 2008, 04:30 PM

I did a little welding today.
I reinforced the rest of the tower and tied the rear tubes into the main cage.
While I had the welder out I patched all of the un-needed holes in the "trunk" and engine bay.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 4 2008, 04:30 PM

I had planned on welding tubes into both sides today but it is 9 degrees here so I gave in to the cold after only finishing the passenger side.
I should be able to weld in the other side tomorrow.
I also properly attached the framerail to the tower, it looks like the only thing attaching the two in the stock car were 3 tiny spot welds.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Dec 4 2008, 05:08 PM

Posted by: Brett W Dec 5 2008, 02:38 PM

Are you using that bzt-bzt-bzt-bzt welding technique that I see so many kids using now days when welding with a MIG machine? Your welds look funny.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 5 2008, 03:20 PM

Yeah I use the bzt-bzt technique, the welds run a little on the cooler side but I find that I have better control of the weld quality this way.
The welds do look a little crazy in the pictures, because I polished them with the wire wheel the cameras flash goes nuts and makes them look all wonkey, trust me they look a lot better in person!

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 7 2008, 01:44 PM

I finished the cage today.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 7 2008, 01:44 PM

After cutting out the trunk floor and welding in all of the rear tubes I dropped a total of 3.2 pounds, not bad considering what was done.

Posted by: Zaney Dec 7 2008, 03:27 PM

Now there should be no problem in finding room to upgrade your 901 to a WRX 5 speed someday.
Looks awesome!

Posted by: Wilhelm Dec 8 2008, 01:50 AM

I'm concerned that the hoops of your roll bars are not continuous to the frame rails and are entirely dependent for their strength on the welds at their bases. They are also not triangulated and worry they will fold over onto your noggin in a crash. Don't get me wrong, I like what your doing overall, just want you to be safe.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 8 2008, 10:34 AM

I totally agree, at this point the hoops are not nearly as strong as they could be.
I have decided to run 5-point harnesses so it would probably be a good idea to triangulate the hoops with another bar.
It will be tough to squeeze another bar under the humps, I will have a better idea of what is possible after I finish the firewall.

Posted by: BKLA Dec 8 2008, 10:36 AM

great job!

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 8 2008, 07:10 PM

Today I started rebuilding the firewall. Since I cut off the targa bar that held the upper seat belt bracket I have decided to go with 5-point harnesses. Luckly my main hoop is in a great position to anchor the shoulder belts but the firewall needed to be recessed to clear the belts.
I made these blisters then welded them into the firewall.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 8 2008, 07:22 PM

.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 16 2008, 06:06 PM

Big news, My wife and I are moving to Boulder Colorado in a couple weeks. I am transferring to CU Boulder in time for the spring semester. We got a nice place with a garage so work can continue on the Anklebiter. I dropped it back onto it's wheels to move it and decided to take some pics.

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 16 2008, 06:07 PM

After having the car on 18" jackstands for a year I could not believe how low it was after I dropped it down on its wheels.
I took a couple pictures of the car next to our Subies to show just how low a 41" tall car really is.
The car is sitting at 5" from the ground to the donuts, I could go a little lower but I think things are looking pretty good as they are.

Posted by: scotty b Dec 16 2008, 06:10 PM

DAMN that thing is wicked !!

Posted by: spaceshuttle Dec 16 2008, 07:16 PM

WOW. I am thinking Porsche should reintroduce the 914 ala the Camaro/Challenger/Mustang and just copy your design. Sign me up.

SS

Posted by: iamchappy Dec 16 2008, 07:58 PM

F'ng Cool....

Posted by: Ferg Dec 16 2008, 08:02 PM

Moving to Boulder!! Great News.

Let me know how If I can help in any way. Where in Boulder?

Ferg

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 16 2008, 08:07 PM

We got a place in Tantra Lake, about 5 mins south of campus.
Looks like it will be a lot easier to make it to the Colorado get togethers this summer!

Posted by: Ferg Dec 16 2008, 08:30 PM

Very Cool! I work right off the walking mall, Porsche lunches on the Hill next summer

Ferg

Posted by: fat73 Dec 16 2008, 08:32 PM

Hey Dana,

That thing is bad to the bone. By the way, how wide are the spacers on the front wheels?

Ed aka W9R1

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 16 2008, 08:38 PM

That sounds awesome!




2" front and rear.

Posted by: jsayre914 Dec 16 2008, 08:58 PM

That is by far the coolest 914 I have ever seen. Hands Down. Can we vote now for January car of the month.??

incredible

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Dec 16 2008, 10:29 PM

Ha!
Isn't it WEIRD to see your 914 so low on the ground after seeing it every day for months up on jack stands? I felt like an NBA player or something.

Lookin good!

Posted by: byndbad914 Dec 16 2008, 11:07 PM

nice! I am thinking Illegal Pete's on the Hill at least once when it warms up and the scenery is nicer (hahaha hey, I'm getting old)...

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Dec 16 2008, 11:15 PM

Let's at least wait until it's finished

Looking very good Dana. I just remembered I need to go out and take some pictures for you I really do think the seats we are talking about will look sweet in there.

When done you have to send pictures to Porsche and see if you can get anythnig from them

Posted by: ericread Dec 16 2008, 11:40 PM

It's awesome.

But we would expect nothing less from you...

Eric

Posted by: rick 918-S Dec 16 2008, 11:56 PM

That pegs the cool factor meter

Posted by: Todd Enlund Dec 17 2008, 12:00 AM

Holy sh!t!

Posted by: stephenaki Dec 17 2008, 04:13 AM

Love the look of the rear area; what type of side mirrors are those?

Never mind, I just found the page that talks about using Pontiac Solstice mirrors. I should really look harder before asking obvious questions!

Posted by: degreeoff Dec 17 2008, 06:54 AM

and of course the work, your wife must be a great gal......

Posted by: Mr.C Dec 17 2008, 07:59 AM

Oh man that thing is BAAAAD!!

In touch with a guy locallly who is doing a subie conversion. He's got some plans..big plans.
Here's his subie powered Ghia that he built. http://f-bautomotive.com/ghia.html I'm trying to get him on here, but he's too busy in his shop for the net.

Posted by: Gint Dec 17 2008, 08:05 AM

Great news Dana!

Lunch... I'm in.

Posted by: d914 Dec 17 2008, 08:43 AM

that is awesome,, You might have said but what are you doing for headlights.. I was playing with the idea of some motocycle lights mounted next to the fogs kinda rally style but Im not that far to worry to much about it??????

Posted by: roadster fan Dec 17 2008, 03:23 PM

Just set as my desktop background. Cant stop staring at it........need help.........


Jim

Posted by: jhadler Dec 17 2008, 04:02 PM

Fantastic looking car! I agree, Porsche should scrap their "new" 914 attempt, and just clone your body style. For a fee of course... A nice big one...

And welcome to Boulder!!!!

I work just up a short way from you! We'll certainly need to get some lunches going!

-Josh2

Posted by: stownsen914 Dec 17 2008, 04:05 PM

Very cool project! To triangulate the main hoop a little more, why not just put a diagonal tube laterally behind where the seats will go?

Scott

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 17 2008, 04:11 PM

Thanks for the kind words guys!

The main hoop is not the issue, I am going to run a bar diagonally from the rear up to each head hoop to keep them from folding if the car flips.

Posted by: shelby/914 Dec 17 2008, 04:19 PM

Welcome back to Colorado, I've shown this thread to friends who aren't into 914s and they can't wait to see the car in person. I think you could charge admission.

Posted by: KELTY360 Dec 17 2008, 07:09 PM

Wow.......nice Fiat!

My girfriend's uncle used to have one just like it, sep it were a four door.

Posted by: Sleepin Dec 29 2008, 10:48 AM

For a fellow Coloradoan (now)! Good news! Car is looking badass!!!

Posted by: turboman808 Dec 29 2008, 03:20 PM

The car is looking fantastic. The only thing not working for me is the bumps behind the headrest. I say get rid of them and keep the line clean.

Really thought this thread makes me want to chop the top on my car.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Dec 29 2008, 03:21 PM

Any updates Dana?

Posted by: plymouth37 Dec 29 2008, 07:17 PM

WOW, over 20,000 views and over 300 replies! You guys rock, thank you so much for the support!

I am working on rebuilding the firewall, it is turning out to be a ton of work but I should have some pics to post by the end of the week.
I would like to get the firewall done before I move on the 2nd so as to not piss off my new neighbors with the excessive noise.
Dana.

Posted by: effutuo101 Dec 30 2008, 11:45 AM

Good luck in Boulder! I lived right out side of there for a couple of years. Lots of runs out of there during the summer.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Dec 30 2008, 11:54 AM

There's nothing wrong with breaking in your new neighbors . They need to get use to it soon anyway. When I move into my house I pulled up the tax records of my neighbors and learned what I could about them. I bought them all "I'm your new neighbor gifts" and now I can borrow any tool or do anything. Then I got married and had kids and all the older neighbors bought us a ton of baby stuff.

Can't wait to see more work.

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Dec 30 2008, 12:06 PM

Very stoked to have this car local!! I am just two exits away from you on 36 - really look forward to watching the progress and seeing the car in person.

Welcome to the nieghborhood!
-Scott S

Posted by: jcambo7 Dec 30 2008, 12:06 PM

Wow Jon! Looks like you know how to get your neighbors on your side!!!!! LOL
Whatever works though!

Posted by: jcambo7 Dec 30 2008, 12:09 PM

This car is looking awesome. I can't wait to see the car finished and what you are going to do. It's going to look awesome.

Posted by: 914junkie Jan 5 2009, 03:57 AM

Looking great Dana! Love the direction you took with your car. Hard to believe thats the same car I was looking at in Renegades parking lot. I drove down to Las Vegas 3 years ago to pick up my V8 conversion kit. You were showing me your car and around the shop and I kept thinking I should have done the Subaru conversion instead of the SBC. Now I want both! Was nice to meet you guys and the conversion was painless. Good luck with the project, can't wait to see the end result. How bout some HID projectors behind some clear replica turn signal lenses? Just a thought. Have fun! Paul S.

Posted by: AgPete139 Jan 7 2009, 05:33 AM

I've been stalking this page for a while now (a while = since May 2008). I've never really had anything to say, and still don't since I'm a newb to 914...

But damn. Dana, that is a good-looking car. The chopped windshield, front KC's, motor choice (sans bracing dilemma), and mirrors are well done. The look is mean, and the brushed metal is so unique and fitting for the car. But, with the fiberglass, what about a tan (bottom) / high gloss black (top) 2 tone paint scheme with a red stripe going along the length of the car?

I just Googled the first 2 images I saw.

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/5-0l-talk/36079d1195266596-help-w-two-tone-paint-2.jpg

http://www.digimods.co.uk/images/Virtualcarimages/cars/fordequatorconcept2.jpg

Congrats on the successful move, btw.

By the end of the build, YOU will be weighing more than the unloaded CHASSIS!

I'd say good luck, but it looks like you don't need it.



Pete

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 11 2009, 10:58 PM

Dana, ae you really 5 years younger than me? Even more impressive work now. Someone with this skill in their mid 20s

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 11 2009, 11:04 PM

Thanks!

As far as the car goes I am in the middle of getting our house in Laramie ready to sell (aka finishing all of my half finished renovation projects) and starting a new semester tomorrow so it may be a little while before I can get back to her. Never fear though, you guys will be the first to know if anything gets done...

Posted by: oldschool Jan 11 2009, 11:21 PM

Dude that's looking so cool I dreamed of a chop 914, But how are you going about
the seats? am short Mexican and I some times hit my head on a reg.top?

Posted by: oldschool Jan 11 2009, 11:28 PM

I think a cool look would be light's ala 928 you know facing up when not in use and when on bam! just like the 928.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 11 2009, 11:30 PM

I am going to move the crossbrace that the stock seats mount to about 3" or 4" forward and hard mount Sparco Evos to the floor. This should give me a pretty decent driving position even if the car is only 41" tall.

Posted by: mbrown3039 Jan 26 2009, 10:31 PM

Blah, blah, blah...life stuff...yadda, yadda, yadda...real responsibilities...who cares? Call the house in Laramie a "fixer-upper" and get back on the car!

Seriously, though, I commend you. Not just for the car itself -- which I think is a work of art in progress and has some pretty feasible business venture possibilities -- but for your committment to this thread. A lot of us have cars -- mostly 914's but I'm sure there are a few "foreigners" following along, too -- and we've all dreamed of some sort of modification if only we had enough time/money/skills/other to get it done. But you're actually doing it AND writing about it humbly and graciously, even when some of the readers offer their "advice" in a less-than-gracious (IMO) manner.

I doubt I'll ever create something as striking as the Anklebiter, but I'm glad I get to share along with all the other readers as you do. We met a few years ago when you were at Renegade and -- now that I finally own a 914 -- I keep going back and forth: stock or Subie? Stock or Subie? And that's all because of you.

Now, of course, that question is morphing into "everyday Subie or super-morphed Dana special Subie?"

<sigh>......if only I had $75K.................

Posted by: retro914 Jan 27 2009, 11:34 AM

I have sat here at an can truly say that I love this build. I came across a Porsche 914 Carrera GT rendering and didn't seem to like it as much, but your work has prove me otherwise. Keep up the good work!





Nick

Posted by: Ferg Feb 5 2009, 04:24 PM

Posted by: majkos Feb 6 2009, 01:56 PM

Isn't he like moving from Windy Wyoming,to Colorado!

Posted by: mrhurtalot Feb 6 2009, 03:52 PM

wow, been gone from the site for months, and i come back to see this masterpiece has arose.

good job so far man.

Posted by: GTeener Feb 6 2009, 04:01 PM

I really like the brushed metal treatment.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 8 2009, 06:44 PM

I have indeed moved to Boulder, the problem is that the 914 is still in Wyoming.
As soon as I get it down here work will begin once again, probably in about a month.

While moving I stumbled upon some old negatives from the day I found the 'biter and have added them to the first page of the thread, she has come a long ways huh?

Posted by: Gint Feb 8 2009, 07:28 PM

I can't wait to see it in person. Need any help?

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:23 PM

It's sping break and I finally had some time to spend on the car. As some of you may know I moved down to Boulder, CO in January but my car is still in Laramie, WY. I drove up on Sunday and was finally able to make some progress on the car.

I started out by welding in the center beam for the new cross member.

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:23 PM

Then I welded in filler panels for the corners, as you can see they are crazy pieces that needed a lot of shrinking and stretching to fit.

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:23 PM

Then I moved on to the most complicated piece of the cross member. I was remembering a 550 spyder I had worked on years ago and designed the cross member to echo those lines.

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:23 PM

I finished up the cross member by capping it's back and bottom.





Here is the firewall with the humps on. I think the gap between them turned out pretty nice.

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:23 PM

Here is a cool pic from the trunk looking into the engine compartment.


Not much left of her...

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 26 2009, 03:24 PM

To finish off the fire wall I welded in some patch panels to fill the holes left by the speakers.
Thanks to Leo Imperial for getting out his sawzall and cutting me the perfect patches!

Posted by: carr914 Mar 26 2009, 03:34 PM

He's Back

Posted by: g911 Mar 26 2009, 04:06 PM

Most excellent

Posted by: dlee6204 Mar 26 2009, 05:18 PM

Very nice work!

Posted by: r_towle Mar 26 2009, 05:36 PM

That is cool...similar thought and deeds going on here.

I am making that piece removable...and I am making three of them.
So, I am struggling with this.

One will be for a single hoop.
One for a double hoop.
One for no hoop.

I may just have a removable piece to add the second hoop and call it a day.
I love how you tied in the inner fender...do you have any progress pics of that funky area...I had a tough time due to the jog in the inner fender.

Rich

Posted by: BKLA Mar 26 2009, 07:33 PM

Yay!!!!! I've had my "fix"! Thanks!

Posted by: roadster fan Mar 27 2009, 02:52 AM

love the metal work, I really have to start practicing some of those skills

Jim

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Mar 27 2009, 10:46 AM

As always, excelent work Dana

Posted by: 3d914 Mar 27 2009, 07:35 PM

I'm inspired. Now to just get out and work on mine.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 27 2009, 09:53 PM

This project is really bitchen. Sooooo what color?

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 28 2009, 12:57 PM

That is fricken awesome!
I hate to break it to you but I was thinking lime green!
I know yellow cars are faster but I think this car will be fast enough without the power of yellow paint!

Posted by: ssstikircr Mar 28 2009, 01:01 PM

Looks awsom!!!

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 28 2009, 01:25 PM

Oooooop's, Green it is. I also added a wheel and the front windscreen.

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 28 2009, 04:38 PM

That looks perfect! You rock, thanks Paul!

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 28 2009, 04:41 PM

My Pleasure.

Posted by: type47fan Mar 28 2009, 11:56 PM

Pure artistry, Dana . . . .

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2009, 05:00 PM

This next picture may slow down your progress and add more work.
It uses two motorcycle windscreens. I really thought you should see this.


Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Apr 3 2009, 05:08 PM

You have no idea how many times I have thought about that...
I would love to have to put a helmet on to run to the grocery store!
Damn it, I had just gotten over that concept and now you have to go and bring it up again, it is so tempting.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2009, 05:40 PM

Use the bmw electric windscreen that raises up and down...its on the big cruiser bikes from bmw...no helmet needed.

rich

Posted by: plymouth37 Apr 3 2009, 07:43 PM

You just have a solution for everything don't you?
Feel like whipping something up on photoshop Paul?

Posted by: r_towle Apr 3 2009, 08:33 PM

If I could, I would.

My state wont allow this...though I am going to go back a look into it again.
the rules were safety glass and both wipers....so I could do it...

Rich

Posted by: charliew Apr 4 2009, 12:22 PM

The rules may say the windshield must be safetyglass. And if there's a windshield there must be two wipers.

Posted by: jcambo7 Apr 4 2009, 01:03 PM

Looking great man. Still can't wait to see the car finished.

Posted by: plymouth37 Apr 4 2009, 05:01 PM

I stopped caring about the "rules" along time ago. This car has not been even close to legal for years. I have not run wipers on this car for years and lexan is in this cars future. I am perfectly willing to be hassled to the cops if that means I get to build my dream car.

Posted by: r_towle Apr 4 2009, 05:18 PM

Custom laminated glass for the windshield is easy to do and most decent glass shops can get it done.
Custom tempered glass for the side windows will cost you dearly.
The hot rod guys I spoke with all use laminated glass for the side windows just due to the price...
Go find a decent glass shop and talk to them...there are glass factories all over the country,,,you just need to make a metal template that is supported from behind with struts to keep its shape. (they will explain it to you)
Rich

Posted by: plymouth37 Apr 4 2009, 07:31 PM

I think I will just use lexan.
Its lighter and cheaper.
If I am going for the chopped look that I have now I will buy a lexan 914 'shield and cut it down, if I go with the Callaway 'vett look things might get a little more interesting...

Posted by: r_towle Apr 4 2009, 07:37 PM

still gotta go for a decent bend to make it look good.

Metal form...pizza oven (easy guys to convince...)

Rich

Posted by: rick 918-S Apr 4 2009, 10:40 PM

I did some work on this car. It has an upside down Saab 99 windsheild that was re-cut.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: geniusanthony Apr 4 2009, 11:40 PM

The rules may say the windshield must be safetyglass. And if there's a windshield there must be two wipers.


does that mean a helmet is legal on the street.. or goggles?

Posted by: db9146 Jun 5 2009, 10:27 PM

Hey Dana,

What's goin' on? Been two months and no update.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 5 2009, 11:06 PM

I finally got the car moved down here from Laramie a couple of weeks ago, so now I can actually work on it.
While I was waiting for the car to make it down I decided to stay busy and started building a vintage cafe racer. I am almost done with the bike and will start back on the Anklebiter in about a month.

Here is my excuse for not working on the Porsche, 1970 Honda CL350 with many custom bits.

If you want to check out the Build Thread for the bike you can find it http://mycafebike.blogspot.com/

Before:


Now:

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 5 2009, 11:14 PM

Dana, I just have to say... I hate you... in the nicest way possible . Nice work. You have some seriously mad skills. Sweet bike. I have an old Yamaha I need to fix up some day.

Posted by: Wes V Jun 6 2009, 08:24 AM

The motorcycle is major cool!!

I particularly like what you did with the paint.

Wes

Posted by: RobW Jun 6 2009, 08:54 AM

This is the first time seeing this thread and I have to say... dude you are friggen AWESOME!!!! Keep it up!

Posted by: poorsche914 Jun 6 2009, 11:32 AM

Putting the photoshop skills to use...

Old school look with chrome steelies and a 916 bumper.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 6 2009, 04:16 PM

Very cool rendering, I really dig it. Thank you so much!

Sorry again for the delay in progress guys, you all will be the first to know when the build resumes.
Dana.

Posted by: majkos Jun 6 2009, 04:23 PM

No hurries,
you can't rush "Perfection"

Posted by: r_towle Jun 6 2009, 09:35 PM

You have a great eye for design.

Rich

Posted by: effutuo101 Jul 7 2009, 12:33 PM

Nice work Dana,
I picked up a 71 BMW R75/5 for my wife, doing a lot of similar work. I have the solo saddle, but she likes the shape of the full seat, so we are going to keep that.
She wants clubman or straight bars for that vintage racer look, and is spinning wrenches to get all of the little stuff done. The frame should be all stripped and ready for powder coat at the end of the week. Then let the build begin. It should be fun as the front end is off of a R75/6 and has a single disk up front.
Looking forward to seeing your project in final paint.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 7 2009, 12:46 PM

I just finished up the bike. I just need to re-configure the garage to work on a car instead of a bike and then pull the car out of storage. Work on the Anklebiter will resume soon!

Posted by: Greco Aug 26 2009, 10:02 AM

So what kind of top will this have? Convertible or Carson removable hard top? Very cool build, your blog is what brought me to the forums.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 26 2009, 10:08 AM

I am thinking a F/G lift off hardtop, there is a rendering of a possible top on page 3 of this thread.
My buddy has set up shop in my garage without asking so as soon as I can get rid of him and his bike work will resume.
Welcome to 914world Greco!

Posted by: Greco Aug 26 2009, 03:32 PM

Thanks for the welcome. I saw the rendering, any idea on headroom? I found your blog when I was googling modded/chopped/convertibe 914's and found these boards about a year ago. If my roller does'nt sell then I have two choices. Either start hacking it up myself for a project or scrap it. The latter I have avoided as long as I can. I'd rather start with something cheap and running as my first project. Keep up the great work.

Posted by: lotus_65 Aug 26 2009, 06:25 PM

THAT'S BOMB.

Posted by: lotus_65 Aug 26 2009, 06:27 PM

THAT'S BOMB.
i guess bomb enough to double post...

Posted by: BKLA Oct 29 2009, 02:09 PM

Its time for an update!!!!

Posted by: Ferg Oct 29 2009, 03:42 PM

Hi Dana

Posted by: plymouth37 Oct 29 2009, 08:12 PM

I know, this is totally ridiculous, it has almost been a year since I tore into this car. I could give you all a ton of excuses but I will just say that hopefully if no one minds I will get back to it soon. Hang in there, I am trying to get back to work soon!
-Dane

Posted by: Gint Oct 29 2009, 08:21 PM

Give the guy a break already. He's so busy he can't even spell his own name correctly!

Hi Dana.

Posted by: Kirmizi Oct 29 2009, 08:45 PM

Yeah Dana, better get to it before the snow flies....
Oh wait. Glad I'm in Feenix!
Mike

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 12 2009, 11:10 PM

So after almost a year of down time I have finally started back into the car.
I was originally planning on running a custom intercooler. After playing with the stock one and calculating flow rates of other aftermarket intercoolers it became pretty clear that the stock intercooler was a pretty good fit for what I needed, and it's free! I will just have to get its fins straightened and give it a good cleaning and it will be ready to go.
I am going to cut subtle but effective venting slots in between the head humps and use a couple small electric fans to draw air into the intercooler.

To mount the intercooler I threaded a couple 1/2" aluminum bars at each end. One end screws into the engine block and the intercooler bolts into the other end. I think they look pretty clean and they are surprisingly sturdy, most importantly they weigh almost nothing.







I wanted to get a start on running the inlet tubes for the intercooler but out of the thousands of feet of tubing I have none of it is 2", looks like I will have to hit up the exhaust shop tomorrow...

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Nov 13 2009, 09:55 AM

Sweet. Glad to se you back at it Dana

Posted by: effutuo101 Nov 13 2009, 10:14 AM

No matter how many times I look at this thread, I am always impressed. Keep it up Dana.

Posted by: BKLA Nov 13 2009, 03:38 PM

OK..... I'm good now.... For a while!

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 15 2009, 12:09 AM

I drove down to Littleton, CO this morning and picked up some 2" mandrel u-bends. I then pieced together the intercooler intake tubes. They are only held together with tape now because I still haven't figured out my welder situation. I only have 110 at my place and my 220 welders are up at my in-laws place in Cheyenne. I may have to make some time for welding when I go up there for thanksgiving. Some day I would love to swap these out for aluminum but that is more trouble then it is worth right now, I still managed to drop 4 pounds because this plumbing system is much shorter than the previous version. That brings the total up to around 414 pounds shed. Sorry for the fuzzy pics, my camera couldn't figure out all of the shiny tubing.

Posted by: scrz914 Nov 15 2009, 01:46 AM

I just saw this on the Porsche website. Didn't know they made a roadster.
I like yours better.




Attached thumbnail(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 15 2009, 01:50 AM

I think they copied me, I started production way before they did!

Posted by: SECHSER Nov 15 2009, 01:40 PM

hey, just gotta say "wow!!!.." what an amazing effort and it sure is turning out looking really good. keep up the good work man, looking forward to see the updates.

oh btw, i noticed that you're rather a subie fan. i really dig my saabaru except on the 05 ej205 had a crappy oil pump and straved my crank bearings.. i'm looking into ways to get that puppy back on the road..

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 16 2009, 11:21 AM

Last night I mocked up the blowoff valve tubing. Other than welding these pieces up the intake system is fairly complete. I think I will have these three tubes painted body color.

Posted by: Rand Nov 16 2009, 11:30 AM

They already are!
Glad to see you back on this Dana. We all look forward to the next episode. I hope I get to see this thing in person some day.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 16 2009, 11:33 AM

Smartass!

Posted by: BKLA Nov 16 2009, 11:41 AM

We all give you a hard time, but this IS the coolest thread on the "world". We just love to see what you come up with and how you build it.

We are... so not worthly!

A little poo flinging is all in fun.

Now, get back to work so that we can feel inadequate and small!

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 16 2009, 11:48 AM

Believe me, one of the main reasons I hang out here is to give you all a hard time, I appreciate it when someone throws it back

Posted by: SirAndy Nov 16 2009, 12:02 PM

So, when are you going to clean that thing and make it purdy?

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 16 2009, 12:05 PM

Hopefully sometime before I die...

Posted by: Crazyhippy Nov 16 2009, 01:42 PM

Looking good Dana...

Just a heads up, the MAF might need to be clocked slightly to get a pure reading. Ran into an issue on an 05 stang w/ a vortech. Some places it would read very erratically based on RPM, and just twisting it around really cleaned up the signal.

BJ

Posted by: Slider Nov 16 2009, 01:44 PM

good to see your back at it Dana!

keep us posted and someday i will see it in real life

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 17 2009, 12:09 AM

Good to hear from you BJ, thanks for the heads up on that MAF, I swear those sensors have minds of their own.
When I was trying to get the car to run the first time I had the MAF in backwards because it had no directional arrow on it, awesome right?
The car would run fine for 34 seconds then just shut down, that was a fun problem to diagnose...

Posted by: shoguneagle Nov 17 2009, 12:26 AM

Ah!!! Winter is setting in and there was "something" keeping from my "long winter nap".
Something was missing, something was wrong!!!! WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE???




"ANKLEBITER, ANKLEBITER, ANKLEBITER" UPDATE!!!! WHERE IS IT?













There it is---------------

EVERYTHING IS GOING ALONG AND I NOW HAVE CURRENT KNOWLEDGE OF THE PROJECT.

Looking forward to a long extended Winter nap; see you in the Spring.

Steve Hurt

Posted by: Mr.242 Dec 15 2009, 01:42 PM

OMG..I have been living under a ROCK! I just found this build and it's great.


The law and my .02$: Don't apply the law on currently manufactured vehicles(Chevy/Ford/etc). Read the laws for a "specilty" vehicles or "KIT" vehicles. I PERSONALLY know WA has them and there are laws that allow builds such as these. Have it licensed as something other than a Porsche, maybe a "KIT" vehicle. It will apply. Then carry a print out of the laws tucked somewhere in a nice little binder near your registration/insurance.

Fight smarter....

WAHOO....I love this car!

Posted by: charliew Dec 15 2009, 04:39 PM

After going all night a few years ago on the motor we put in my son's sti it wouldm't run smooth. About 10am I had to crash and he woke me up about noon and said someone on nasioc said to check the maf and that was it. No arrow or anything. It was mounted on a aluminum housing and we turned the housing around on re-assembly.

Posted by: BKLA Jan 7 2010, 04:35 PM

Holidays are done. We're in need of an update!

Posted by: Ferg Jan 7 2010, 04:49 PM

Hi Dana You gonna be at 3R tonight???

Ferg

Posted by: markb Jan 7 2010, 05:15 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 7 2010, 10:14 PM

I will post an update on Sunday

Posted by: sendjonathanmail Jan 7 2010, 10:16 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 10 2010, 02:50 AM

No big news on the car but my wife and I moved from our apartment into a little house with a huge shop. So now I will actually be able to get some work done!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 10 2010, 02:54 AM

My other vehicles.

And of course the awesome REZNOR gas heater to combat the Colorado winter.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 10 2010, 03:07 AM

How she sits now

Posted by: Ferg Jan 10 2010, 09:11 AM

I need to meet your dog, is it a doodle?

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 10 2010, 10:49 AM

Swet....looking good Dana

Posted by: bill pierce Jan 10 2010, 01:44 PM

Too bad your dog is in a wheel chair. He looks so young.

Loving this thread. Keep up the good work!

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 10 2010, 02:16 PM

We think Bailey is a labradoodle but she was born in the pound and then was abandoned by the person who adopted her so we are not totally sure as to her make and model. She is a real sweetheart and an awesome garage dog.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 20 2010, 07:46 AM

Last night I started to cut out some extra sheet metal around the engine bay. I finally got sick of working around the engine and decided to pull the drivetrain.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 20 2010, 07:50 AM

Now that the drivetrain is out I am going to detail it and work on shaving some weight off of the engine. The stock alternator bracket weighs a ton and the intake manifold needs to have a ton of extra metal shaved off of it.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 20 2010, 01:51 PM

Sweet.... I'm so happy you're back to work on this.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2010, 02:43 PM

This car is so unique and so cool it really needs to be finished.

Any book, chapter, or article on custom 914s needs to cover this car.

What kind of color scheme do yo have in mind for the engine?

John

Posted by: BKLA Jan 20 2010, 04:00 PM

I'm soo happy now!!!! I look forward to seeing your posts and pictures of your work.

I hope its not too presumptuous of me to ask, (but I am going to anyway) what are your plans here? (See pic) I'm very interested to see how you resolve how the trunk meets the fender and the cover...

Thanks!!!!!!!

Posted by: Gint Jan 20 2010, 05:07 PM

Hey Dana... when do I get to see this car in person? I could bring over a real camera.

Posted by: Rand Jan 20 2010, 05:19 PM

This may shed some light on that:

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 20 2010, 06:23 PM

I am going to keep it looking pretty factory, only real dress up will brushed aluminum, black powder coat and stainless fasteners.



That area still needs a little work, you can see a point where the old meets the new that I need to smooth out into a much softer curve.



You are welcome to come over any time, I am over in old town Longmont now and have a pretty open schedule.
And yes the pics suck, my camera died on me and I am making due with my phone for now, I keep spending my money on the car instead of a new camera.
I also need to find a better mac program to shrink the photos to 800X600 the program I am using makes them even blurrier and the files are way too big for their size.

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 20 2010, 07:02 PM

I'd cut the sharp edge off (outer edge of the remaining sail panel) and taper it out to the roll of the quarter panel. Take out the step

Posted by: g911 Jan 20 2010, 07:05 PM

glad to see you're back at it. very sweet indeed.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jan 20 2010, 07:18 PM

That is pretty much what I was thinking, that spot has bugged me ever since I welded it up, it looks unnatural when compared to the metal around it. My welder is coming down in a week or two and I am going to make up for lost time with it.

Posted by: BKLA Jan 20 2010, 07:28 PM

That's what I wanted to hear!!!

Posted by: Zundfolge Jan 20 2010, 08:35 PM

I use Photoshop, but I'm also a professional so I can justify the expense.

If you have X11 installed there's http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/

If you don't want to go to the trouble of installing X11 for The Gimp, there's http://seashore.sourceforge.net/index.php (based on Gimp but built on the Cocoa Framework).

I run Seashore on my Hackintosh Netbook (since Adobe software won't install on a machine running less than 1024x768 resolution, and I really didn't need something that powerful for the very little image editing I do on the netbook)

Posted by: JJ914GT Jan 21 2010, 11:50 AM

Love this build, it's actually the car that inspired me to go for the subaru conversion.

Here's a nice online "photoshop-like" program:

http://www.pixlr.com/editor

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 5 2010, 10:43 AM

After pulling the drivetrain I stripped the engine down to almost a long block. There is a ton of weight that can be removed from the engine and a couple small power adders that are easier to do with the engine out of the car.
Now I need to take this opportunity to clean things up a bit.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 5 2010, 11:19 AM

Next I pulled the Tumble Generator Valves off of the intake. For those of you who are not familiar with these little bastards, they are located between the intake and the heads, during cold start ups they close to improve emissions. The problem is that when the valves open during normal driving they still block a ton of air flow and rob mid range power.
Here are the stock TGVs:


I removed the butterflies and the motors and sensors related to them, this procedure does trigger a check engine light but I am going to have the car tuned anyway and this code can be eliminated from the ecu.
Here you can see the casting that directs air around the closed butterflies so the engine doesn't stall.


I bored out the cast partitions and ported out the TGV bodies
Here is a shot half way through porting:

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 5 2010, 11:20 AM

Lastly I finished porting the bodies then ground off any unnecessary mounts or brackets on the exterior of the TGVs then hit them with a wire wheel. The holes you see where the rods used to go will be filled as soon as I get my tig down here.


And now for the Bonuses: I lost a total of 2.2 pounds by removing the motors, sensors, butterflies, driveshafts, and extra aluminum.
Here is a TGV mod before and after chassis dyno sheet from a guy who has almost exactly the same mods on his engine as mine:
Check out the gains at 3000 rpm, and this is at the wheels!

Not a bad gain for a days work!

Posted by: Kirmizi Feb 5 2010, 11:28 AM

Hey Dana,
You gonna have it back together and running for Cars and Coffee tomorrow?

Mike

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 5 2010, 11:30 AM

Sure, no problem...

Posted by: fat73 Feb 5 2010, 11:40 AM

Dana...Does this mod have any effect on the ECU? I'm asuming the sensors that previouly controlled the throttle body butterflies stay attached to the harness, or can they be removed?


Ed

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 5 2010, 11:47 AM

The sensors measure the butterflies movement which varies depending on the engines running conditions so it is impossible to just plug in a resistor to trick the ECU like I have done with other sensor deletes. It is an all or nothing kind of deal, messing with the TGVs will give you a check engine light and a possible limp mode situation unless you get the code programmed out. Since it will trigger a problem weather you remove the sensors or not I am removing the sensors and the wires for them from my wiring harness. To fully optimize the TGV delete procedure you need to have the ECU programmed for a freer flowing intake but since I am getting my car tuned anyway it wasn't really an issue.

Posted by: Crazyhippy Feb 5 2010, 01:40 PM

There are alos companies that make an emulator for the TGV sensors... just the TGV motor on one side, a short shaft and the sensor on the other...

Re-programming is a better choice.

There are decent gains to be had gasket matching everything, and cleaning up the heads (requires removal though) The Exhaust ports have lots of room for improvement.

Look at the throttle body inlet, and where it meets the intake... lots of areas to clean up, and decent gains for some time and lil money.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 10 2010, 08:57 PM

I was looking at the stock intake manifold and realized that I have eliminated the need for any mounting brackets on the manifold.



I gasket matched the TGVs to the manifold.
I have wanted to go with a little more of a stock look so I decided to put a brushed finish on the manifold rather than full out polishing it.
I took a grinder to the mounts and casting marks on the manifold then hand sanded it down with 60 grit, 100 grit, and then a scotch brite pad. It is so nice to have a wife that doesn't bat an eye when you pull an intake manifold out of the dish washer...




Then I bolted the gutted TGV bodies and manifold up the the engine with new gaskets all around. The process of shaving and polishing the manifold dropped an additional 1/2 pound.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 10 2010, 09:01 PM

Here are another couple shots.

Posted by: rnellums Feb 10 2010, 09:11 PM

The manifold looks gorgeous!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 13 2010, 02:40 PM

The WRX engine is not the best looking engine, I am trying to make it look as good as possible by re-routing and tucking everything I can.
I want to make the engine as easy to remove as possible so I am moving the connection points for all of the fuel and wiring to one location in the front of the engine.
Here is the original routing of the fuel lines.


I cut off part of the original lines and ran my own feed and return. Once I run the wiring to the "connection area" I will make a nice aluminum bracket that mounts both lines and the wiring to the alternator bracket

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 13 2010, 02:41 PM

I also deleted the heater loop, I cut off most of the steel tubing for the system then replaced them with a couple rubber elbows and my temp sensor housing. I still need to find some sexy hose clamps since this area will be pretty visible.


Since I am not running A/C or P/S I cut down the accessory brackets so they are only set up to hold the Alternator, I lost 1/3 pound in the process.

Posted by: budman5201 Feb 14 2010, 12:35 AM

Hey dont forget another 7-8 lbs in a lightened front pulley. You can find a good 2 lb one out there. Awesome manifold polish!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 03:20 AM

That could be a good mod, off to NASIOC to do some research!

Posted by: fat73 Feb 14 2010, 07:37 AM

Yep you definitely want to do the pulley. Did that on mine. I used the Cobb pulley with stock dimensions. Also makes it rev like a mutha.

Ed

Posted by: d914 Feb 14 2010, 08:25 AM

small point.. the svx oil fill tube is shorter and points to the outside which might actually work better in our cars..plus cleans up the look some..

Posted by: daveyboybadion Feb 14 2010, 10:25 AM

Hi Dana, I've been following your build with great interest, fantastic job so far. I just received this months MCN and their innovation of the month is the Oetiker clamp. These clamps are meant to be used for fuel injection fuel lines. Check them out at www.oetiker.com. They are very attractively priced as well...daveyboy

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 10:42 AM

Thanks for all the tips guys! Lots of good info in the last three posts!

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 14 2010, 12:21 PM

Does the original pulley not act as a harmonic balancer? If so, removing the weight could be detrimental.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 12:41 PM

There seem to be two trains of thought on the subject, half of the people on the subaru boards say that it is not a dampener, and that the boxer engine is pretty well balanced on its own. The other camp says it is a dampener and that it is a potentially disastrous mod to do.
On one hand I can see that the stock pulley was drilled to balance it which makes me think it should probably be there, also the STI has a heavier pulley to do something. On the other hand I have seen very little evidence of anything bad happening after a pulley swap and most people seem to like the quick revs. I can't really find anything definitive either way.

Posted by: d914 Feb 14 2010, 12:42 PM

from my research, on another suby thread:

I finally got an answer directly from Subaru of America...I asked them if the crank pulley for the WRX and the STi is used as a harmonic damper/balancer. Here's the reply...


Hello F. Flores:

Thank you for your patience as I checked with our Technical Services
Department regarding your message below. They advised that the crank pulley
is a pulley and nothing else. It is not used as a harmonic damper/balancer.

Thanks for the opportunity to be of assistance. If you need any future
assistance, please feel free to contact us again.

Best wishes,

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.


I think this topic can now end!:D

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 12:46 PM

Awesome looking engine Ed, I remember welding up that intercooler kit for you like it was yesterday!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 12:51 PM

I have seen that letter before, the only problem is the opinionated "subie masters" on nasioc totally tore it apart, not saying that it is wrong in any way, I googled "John J. Mergen" and he seems to know his stuff. It's just that those nasioc guys are really good at convincing you that your engine will blow up if you so much as breath on it. I have some time before the engine goes back in to decide if I am going to go for one or not. They sure are pretty though!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 12:52 PM

Good tip on the SVX filler Greg, I have been trying to figure out what to do to the odd WRX one!

Posted by: d914 Feb 14 2010, 01:27 PM

here is a quick pick to see if this works for you..




Yeah I have a long way to go before I see a running car..

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 02:56 PM

Nice! I need to pick one up, that is exactly what I was looking for!

Posted by: fat73 Feb 14 2010, 03:32 PM

Yep seems like yesterday but it was in 2006! 2005 was my first ride in one of these conversions in your car in Vegas. I'll never forget that.

We did a ton of work cleanint/poslishing on this motor, and powdercoating everything we could. Unfortunately, after we got it in there you couldn't see much of it. But I know it's there...

One of the reasons for doing this was so the engine bay and underneath of the car would stay clean...NO OIL LEAKS.

So far I've put over 24k miles on my conversion with zero problems, except for one busted transaxle (my fault entirely....smoking those 11" tires is just too much fun).

Ed

Posted by: flipb Feb 14 2010, 04:26 PM

Might be a dumb question from someone who isn't all that mechanically inclined, but with the fuel line connections rerouted to the front, do you risk catastrophe if the alternator belt breaks?

Posted by: charliew Feb 14 2010, 04:55 PM

It doesn't take much inspection of a suby 2.0 or 2-5 damper to figgure out it is truly a damper. It has different pieces mounted in rubber. Being a oem damper means it is designed to work in the lower rpm ranges. ATI builds a nice aftermarket damper that works in a much broader range. Don't forget the oil pump is directly behind the damper any hormonics created will be directly sent through the internal part of the pump. Check out ATI's site. I originally tried to find a fluid damper like the one's on my sbcs but then read ati's info and decided to go that way. Who knows what all goes wrong on high strung subys but why screw with whats a known thing, all motors hotrodded need all the high tech mods you can afford to make them live longer. Also on the fi clamps you could use the one time use ones like what is on a harley. They are cleaner looking than a screw type clamp. You can get them at a harley shop or once you have some I bet they can be found online. You will also need the installation tool to squeeze them.

Oh yeah I have two light weight pulleys one is a perrin, I think the other also has a additional pretty pulley for I guess the alt. I will sell them if anyone is interested, they have never been on a running motor.

Also Grimspeed has thin or thick phoenolic sp? spacers to keep the engine heat out of the intake. I think I remember they are 3mm and 7 or 11mm the longer ones come with bolts. With those guys on you can put your hand on the intake on a hot day while the motor's running. Justin Grimm is the vender on nasioc.

Posted by: fat73 Feb 14 2010, 05:48 PM

All I know is I've been running mine with the light pulley for about 24k miles with no problems. Has not hurt performance, bottom end or top end.
Ed

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 06:10 PM

Like I said, there are two camps with the pulley probably both of which are right, luckily I have some time to figure this one out


I think it is a valid concern, once I get everything together I will see if the wiring and fuel lines need some protection.

Posted by: budman5201 Feb 14 2010, 07:09 PM

Hey dont forget this pretty filler from outfrontmotorsports.com, but i bet it adds a few ounces to stock plastic one.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 07:22 PM

So here is a good demonstration of how huge modern cars have gotten, or how tiny the 914 really is.

Here is a Ferrari F430 diffuser at home on an F430, looks pretty reasonably sized right?


And here is the same diffuser on my 914, got a little bigger huh?


Another couple shots, I am just mocking it up, fitting all of these new components into such a small car is getting to be tricky! I have ground out all of the cracks in the fiberglass and filled them, a little more sanding and it should be ready for paint. Keep in mind my car is sitting about a foot higher than it will when I lower the suspension and get it off of the wheel dollies, that thing is going to look even bigger dragging a couple inches off of the ground!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 07:27 PM

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 14 2010, 07:27 PM

Hey Dana, I've got a filler tube on my SVX parts engine I'd donate to this great build....as long as I can visit it the next time I'm in Boulder. The cap is fubar but your current one probably fits.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 07:32 PM

That would be awesome! Thank you so much!

Posted by: Ferg Feb 14 2010, 09:19 PM

I was wondering when we would see the diffuser mock up

Posted by: fat73 Feb 14 2010, 09:48 PM

Where'd you get that? I've been toying with doing the same / similar thing to my 914. Already have a fiberglass rear bumper I can butcher before the repaint.

Ed

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 14 2010, 10:22 PM

Cruise the Ferrari forums, it seems like a guy backs into something every other week with his diffuser. I saw a post a couple years ago about a guy who backed into a curb and rewarded himself with a new carbon diffuser, I asked him what happened to the old one and he had the body shop who had done the work send it to me for free, nice guy!
They really fit the 914 chassis pretty well, I was going to build my own but I think Ferrari has a little more experience with aerodynamics than I do!

Posted by: oldschool Feb 14 2010, 10:31 PM

Dana I want your bike

Posted by: championgt1 Feb 14 2010, 11:18 PM

Is your exhaust going to exit through the hole in the center of the diffuser?

Posted by: turboman808 Feb 14 2010, 11:29 PM

few random thoughts

I've wondered how a diffuser would work on a 914. Seems it would need to have a smooth underbelly across the whole car for them to work right. Since the back is open from the firewall back how could it work?

Since your car has a subaru motor I guess it's possible to make a pan across the whole thing. With the air cooled cars that doesn't seem possible.

This is assuming things work like I imagine they do.


I removed the rear valance and made an exhaust that tucks up out of the airflow. I kind of figured there is a hell of alot of air coming out the back end and the more open the better.

I have also wondered how it would work mounting a wing down where the diffuser is mounted. If done right it would almost go unnoticed. Of course it could be the air is in such turbulence it would never work.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 12:00 AM

I was planning on making an aluminum belly pan all the way from the front valence to the diffuser, With a little creative cutting I should be able to get the belly perfectly flat.
Other than the diffuser the rear of the car is going to be hexagonal expanded aluminum mesh. Probably some hidden led taillights to keep weight down and not block airflow out the back.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 12:07 AM

Don't have a build thread for the cruiser, built the frame from scratch, hilariously terrifying to ride!
Here is the Cafe bike's http://mycafebike.blogspot.com/
I had no idea 36 horsepower could be so fun!

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 12:25 AM

I had thought about it, I think I will figure out the exhaust after everything is in place, center exhausts are pretty cool.

Posted by: fat73 Feb 15 2010, 07:24 AM

Yeah, center exhausts with a vent for the blow-off valve too!
Ed

Posted by: charliew Feb 15 2010, 10:18 AM

I guess I need to look at that more thoroughly to see what the ferrari guys did in front of the diffuser. When you add a street bumper there is more room to get it all worked in. I will probably use a aluminum tube under the fg gt bumper I have but a added on diffuser valence was always a thought but it also seems like a great air catcher without a under pan at least from the oil pan back. Also to cover the rear of the tranny and cable shifter, that will be visible. I also will need some air movement over the ic in the engine compartment so side vents might be a needed thing and the air's gotta go somewhere. No blow off valve to atmosphere for me the short fat suby exhaust will be loud enough as it is, my sons sti blow off valve in the intake is still noticeable in a enclosed coldair box and his waste gate is still in the exhaust and on full throttle it's not quiet and very obvious for at least a mile and his 3 inch exhaust is at least 7 or 8 ft long.

Posted by: camaroz1985 Feb 15 2010, 10:31 AM

I would like to shed some light on the pulley/damper. It does indeed have a damper in it however it is not a harmonic damper. It is meant to lessen the shock when the a/c kicks on. I have had a lightened pulley on both of my Subaru engines and have had no problems other than when I turn the a/c on (this is in a Subaru not a 914). When the clutch engages the belt slips a second and you can feel it through the steering wheel. I don't use the a/c for this reason.

Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 15 2010, 04:08 PM

Thinking about your diffuser on my drive today and saw a Honda Fit with one 05-07 I think. Cheaper than a Ferrari part, new


Attached image(s)

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 04:15 PM

Good info, makes sense. Good thing I deleted the a/c!

Posted by: Crazyhippy Feb 15 2010, 04:33 PM

F1 style... out the top, molded into the speedster hump

Or go a bit taller like a pulling truck

think of it as adding downforce

Posted by: Crazyhippy Feb 15 2010, 04:36 PM

Only issue i've heard of is using a light flywheel, and a light pulley, the Crank pos. sensor can give some screwy numbers.

we've got a bit of extra mass on the flywheel side, and shouldn't have any issue w/ the light pulley.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 04:43 PM

You mean like this?
Might need to weld some flappers on the stacks while I am at it...




True that, the adapter setup weighs a fricken ton.

Posted by: Crazyhippy Feb 15 2010, 04:57 PM

It can be lightened

I was thinking more along these lines for Exhaust...



Call it ticket monster

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 15 2010, 05:04 PM

I could point the exhaust out the side of the head hump so it points into the window of those who dare to come near it

Posted by: dw914er Feb 15 2010, 05:12 PM

this just keeps getting cooler and cooler

Posted by: Rod Feb 15 2010, 05:16 PM

Love it! A nice Ferrari driver too! very kind of him.

The hole in the diffuser is gagging for an exhaust imo.

Loving your project, it seems to me that you are doing everything to a car that I wanted to do in my daydreams at fourteen years of age. very envious and admiring your skills!

Posted by: fat73 Feb 15 2010, 05:42 PM

I have A/C, light pulley, no problems.
Ed

Posted by: camaroz1985 Feb 16 2010, 12:50 PM

Guess everyone's results are different. I have another compressor I want to swap in to see if it makes a difference.

I also have a 9.5 lb. Fidanza flywheel with a 1 lb. pulley and have never had a misfire code (or any other code for that matter).

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 17 2010, 03:29 PM

I installed the intake and the snake's nest of vacuum hoses that is associated with it.


Then I started working on the engine's wiring harness:


First I zip tied the harness into its basic stock shape and stripped off most of its insulation.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 17 2010, 03:29 PM

Then I loosely installed the harness on the engine.


Here is the harness half way through me re-routing the wires, I also added a couple wires to the harness for my boost and temp gauges.
This is the point at which you wonder if your car will ever run again.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 17 2010, 03:29 PM

After tucking, re-routing, and eliminating the plugs for the TVG assembly and a/c pump, this is how things looked, after I get it running and work out the bugs I will pull the harness and wrap it.

Posted by: Rod Feb 17 2010, 03:34 PM

Jeff Bowlsby would have enjoyed looking at those

Looking great! Now remember what you do to the loom and recreate them for sale - the VW crowd would bite your hand off!

Posted by: lotus_65 Feb 18 2010, 05:13 AM

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 18 2010, 08:38 AM

Last night I brushed the intercooler and installed it, I still need to get a bottle of gas for the welder so the intercooler tubes are taped together for now.
I still have a couple little things here and there to do to the engine but overall it is pretty much complete.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 18 2010, 08:38 AM

.

Posted by: fat73 Feb 18 2010, 09:01 AM

Now if you wanted to get rid of all that annoying FI plumbing underneath the intake manifold change over to Perrin fuel rails....Prettier and supposedly more efficient too.

Ed

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 18 2010, 09:09 PM

Just wanted to thank Marc (KELTY360) for making a kickass donation to the project.
Here is the original oil filler:


And the SVX filler he sent me:


This a pretty nice upgrade to WRX powered teeners, it looks a lot better and makes for a much more rational location for filling the oil. It was not a direct bolt on, the tube that fits into the head is a couple millimeters to big and needed some light filing to fit, the mounting holes were also a little too wide and needed to be slightly ovaled. It was an easy mod, 10 minutes or so.
Thanks again Marc!

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 19 2010, 11:05 AM

Wow! That really opens up the view of that section of the engine. Your engine is looking great. I've really come to appreciate the underlying simplicity of the Subie engines, once all the modern complexities are stripped away. Glad I could help.

Just for a little more Subie bling, here's a shot of the SVX that's going in my Syncro Westy. Couldn't resist getting the intake polished. As you can see, I went to the Sir Andy School of Photograpy.



Hijack over....now get back to work on the Biter. The 914 Nation awaits your progress.

Posted by: turboman808 Feb 19 2010, 11:39 AM

That is a really pretty motor.

Posted by: plymouth37 Feb 19 2010, 11:48 AM

That is gorgeous!

Posted by: KELTY360 Feb 19 2010, 12:06 PM

Thanks. The intake does a great job of covering all the wiring and plumbing.

Posted by: carr914 Mar 9 2010, 09:50 AM

I'm guessing it was Dana who broke into my garage and started tearing into my Matchbox

Posted by: plymouth37 Mar 9 2010, 10:51 AM

HAHAHA, The resemblance is uncanny!

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 03:33 PM

I finally finished a tough semester and I leave for a month long stay in Rome in 13 days so I decided to really push to make some progress on the car before I leave.
I took a big leap and decided to take the car to the next level and go with a full tube chassis in the rear. I will be able to drop a ton of weight and can custom build everything to mount the Subie engine rather than relying on a conversion kit.

I would love to go with a double a-arm set-up in the rear but with out a chassis bench I don't feel like it's something I can do right. Since I will be retaining the stock swing arms I had to build a couple jigs to locate the swing arm mounts on the new frame. In addition to the jigs I took hundreds of measurements to make sure everything ends up where it needs to be.


I will be raising the swing arm mounts 2" so the swing arm sits level at the cars lowered ride height.


After a couple hours of careful cutting the two halves were separated.
No turning back now!

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 03:33 PM

Here is what I am working with, I managed to remove the rear half of the car without hitting the jigs and according to my measurements the swing arm mounts are right where they should be.
The tubes of the rear frame will tie into my existing cage and into the longs.


The Renegade conversion cradle weighs 28 pounds and the bare rear section I removed without suspension, lid, or diffuser weighed 144.4 pounds, I would be amazed if the new tube frame and f/g fenders weigh half that.


I couldn't resist mocking up the 2 Anklebiters in the garage shot
Stay tuned, lots of work on its way!

Posted by: BKLA May 13 2010, 03:47 PM

Holy !

That's something I didn't expect. Looking forward to the (re)build!

Posted by: KELTY360 May 13 2010, 03:48 PM

Holy crap! You've got stones the size of boulders. This pic reminds me of the old vaudeville magicians that sawed their assistants in half. Rock on!



Did you cut it with the saw hanging on the wall?

Posted by: siverson May 13 2010, 04:01 PM

I agree, you're very brave!

Posted by: Root_Werks May 13 2010, 04:05 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 04:14 PM

HAHAHA, I suppose I should put a not safe for purists warning on this!
Don't worry, it will be done perfectly, no corners will be cut.
On the bright side I got a kick ass 914 trailer out of the deal!

Posted by: Ferg May 13 2010, 04:34 PM

Tis but a scratch!
A scratch? Your car is cut in two!
No, it isn't!
Well, what's that then?

Sorry, that's what through my head when I saw that pic, Monty Python aside you sir are crazy (in a good way)

Ferg

Posted by: RobW May 13 2010, 04:42 PM

Uh.. you cut it in half to do... what?

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 13 2010, 05:01 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 05:13 PM

Lighter, faster, better, give me a week or so, I have things planned

Posted by: carr914 May 13 2010, 05:25 PM

Holy Snikeys

Posted by: Krieger914 May 13 2010, 05:37 PM

Bullshit, he's doin a limo. And while the guys are away in Tahoe his going to get it done and claim the first right to a 914 Limo. He scheemed and waited till they were gone. This is going to divide 914 world into 914 universe and 914 world. Oh the drama.

Posted by: Millerwelds May 13 2010, 05:58 PM

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 06:05 PM

Gee thanks a lot, way to ruin the surprise!

Posted by: KELTY360 May 13 2010, 06:41 PM

Are you going to use the existing rear bodywork for a mold to do the whole ass end in FG?

You do realize it's not stock anymore.....right?

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 06:45 PM

Yeah that whole stock thing kinda went out the window huh
I am thinking about a one piece tilt rear like a 904, probably f/g, same shape as before.

Posted by: RobW May 13 2010, 08:07 PM

Posted by: RJMII May 13 2010, 09:18 PM

I thought you didn't like fiberglass... ?

Posted by: plymouth37 May 13 2010, 09:39 PM

I really do hate the stuff but I think it is the best way to get a single piece light weight body. I have done the finishing bodywork on a couple 550 replicas and I think I can get the glass quality pretty good. I would love to roll one out of aluminum on an english wheel but I want to finish this thing before I'm 90!

Posted by: BigDBass May 14 2010, 12:25 AM

Wow. Just discovered this thread and read all 27 pages. I couldn't believe my eyes when I got to that last little cut... Amazing stuff. Thanks for doing it and sharing it.

Posted by: Rand May 14 2010, 01:25 PM

That would rock. I would love to be able to tip the whole back end up and have complete access to everything around the drivetrain. (ala 904, 550, Ford GT, etc.)

Posted by: lotus_65 May 14 2010, 07:42 PM

i see nothing wrong with your pic, sir.
unless you mind that i found some parts even you didn't know you had!



btw, see if you can adjust the cam to keep from blowing out the highlights-

thefleur

Posted by: plymouth37 May 15 2010, 10:18 PM

I built the trailing arm mounts today.

I welded threaded 10mm X 1.50 couplers in between two 1/8" steel plates.


Then wrapped the coupler sandwich in 1/8" steel and tacked it all in place. I tacked it together with a nice gap so I can finish the pieces without taking off much of the weld.
I tacked inside as much as I could as well then shot some weldable primer inside before everything was sealed in.


And here is the finished product, The tranny mounts are the same shape and almost done, I will post pics of them when they are done.


Here is how they will mount only 2" higher.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 15 2010, 10:18 PM

I also mocked up the drivetrain today.
The renegade kit moves the whole drivetrain forward 1.5" and I am keeping that position, however I moved the drivetrain up 3/4" so everything clears the belly pan.
After I finish the tranny mounts I will start mocking up some bars.

Posted by: effutuo101 May 15 2010, 10:33 PM

wow. huge stones. that is right on! thank you for keeping this thread.

Posted by: r_towle May 15 2010, 10:59 PM

double a-arms..

Rich

Posted by: plymouth37 May 15 2010, 11:01 PM

sounds good, send me a check

Posted by: Zaney May 15 2010, 11:15 PM

Perfect time to go Suby 5 speed!!!

Awesome work, Dana!

Posted by: effutuo101 May 16 2010, 08:47 AM

he would have to move the motor backwards about 2 inches if he did that.

Posted by: charliew May 16 2010, 09:43 AM

Great ideas.
How does the rh kit move the drive train forward 1.5 and still use the stock axles? I intend to use the suby 05 legacy tranny with the obx lsd and still angle the axles forward some. I haven't decided on the axle length yet because I also want new trailing arms to do away with the spacers on the axle hubs. Now would also be a good time to make some new trailing arms if you don't want to go to a arms. Think about all the benefits of the suby tranny while you are a this stage. I don't know how strong they are but suby now has a 6 spd that is the same size as the 5 spd, they also have the cvt, paddle shift?. The only thing about the six spd is in the light car it might be usless unless the tires are a bigger diameter. I think the leg tranny also has a 4:11 so you might want the wrx 3:90.

My opinion on the squeal is it's the aluminum slickness. nascar uses ati and there is no motor made that can't benefit from a front balancer especially one that has the oil pump right behind it.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 16 2010, 11:12 AM

The renegade v8 kits move everything back 1.5", the subie kit moves it all forward 1.5" I have never seen that degree of angle cause problems with the renegade high power axles.
I have been thinking a lot about the subie tranny, I am not ready to pull the trigger on one now, it is tempting but the beauty of a tube frame is it will be easy to adapt to new drivetrains in the future. If the 914 tranny can't do the job once I get this thing running I will lop off some tubes and start thinking about other options.

Posted by: charliew May 16 2010, 11:18 AM

Does the rh use higher angle cvs? I was hoping to use 100mm bus cvs and at least go 2-3 inches forward of the axle centerline. Someone here is using 944 stubs that have the cv built in and are welding adapters on the inside to move the cv toward the tranny some. That will get it out of the bearing carrier some and give a little more room for the angle of the axle. I know a angled cv wastes a little power but the binding is my concern, I didn't really want to go to high angle 930 cv's unless it's the only way.

Nice job on the arm pivot mount. Just think, if you had a rear subframe made out of aluminum and those were billet with helicoils.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 16 2010, 11:24 AM

I am pretty sure they are just bus CVs and axles, I have not gone farther than 1.5" in either direction but I would have to think that is pretty close to their limit

Posted by: charliew May 16 2010, 11:43 AM

I think blind chicken racing has the angles of most or all of the porsche cv's listed mainly for offroad stuff. Actually the t4 has more angle than the t2. http://blindchickenracing.com/How_to/CVJoints_Axles/cv_joints_101.htm

Posted by: plymouth37 May 20 2010, 08:21 PM

I welded in the rear frame mounts, The entire back half of the frame and the body attached to it will be removable for easy access and/or replacement.


The couplers are really machined well and are guaranteed to some ridiculously high shear strength.


I also fabbed up the tranny mounts, the tranny mounts are oriented in the stock direction but I put them under the tranny rather than hanging it from them.
This location will work much better for the cage design I have in mind.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 20 2010, 08:44 PM

I moved the swing arm mounts up 2" so the swing arm sits level at ride height and ran the main tube back to the tranny mounts.

Posted by: Krieger914 May 20 2010, 08:58 PM

Very cool! Nice ideas and execution.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 20 2010, 09:30 PM

I finished up the passenger side "frame rail" and moved on to the drivers side.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 20 2010, 09:39 PM

I then wrapped up the drivers side.
When I get back from Rome in a month I will build the X-Brace and the lower tube that will connect to the tranny.

Posted by: Zaney May 20 2010, 09:51 PM

Porsche needs to hire you and have you in charge of the 918 or 'modern 914' project!
This is insane!!!

Say 'Hi' to Roma for me.

Nate

Posted by: KELTY360 May 20 2010, 11:30 PM

Breathtaking

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 20 2010, 11:34 PM

Wow Dana

Posted by: shoguneagle May 21 2010, 04:51 AM

WHAT A SURPRISE!!! I LOVE IT!!! Very, very nice adaption and goes beyond the normal car conversions, either body and/or engine configurations. I love projects that are being developed/are developed such as this one. Warms my heart to see engineering and project execution done with such talent, thought, and . . . . . . . . .! Keep going!!

You probably are doing what a lot of us would like to do - I am pulling for you, Tiger.

Steve Hurt

Posted by: J P Stein May 21 2010, 06:14 AM

Like building a house, everything starts with the foundation. You've shown us part of the framing, but not the foundation. What is happening forward of the firewall?

Posted by: plymouth37 May 21 2010, 07:15 AM

I couldn't resist mocking up the trailing arms and wheels to see how it looks.
JP, you can kind of see the main cage in these pics, I will post better views later, I am going to add some tubing to the passenger compartment to strengthen the tie in points for the new rear chassis section in a month or so.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 21 2010, 07:18 AM

The rear section that I have fabbed up so far weighs in at 52 pounds, the rest of what I am adding will not weigh more than 30 or so pounds including the f/g fenders so it looks like I am looking at losing around 100 pounds bringing the grand total to 550.4 pounds lost or the equivalent of gaining 100.7 horsepower.
Do I win the "most jackstands used to hold up a 914" award?



Attached image(s)

Posted by: MDG May 21 2010, 07:26 AM

Unreal stuff, Dana. You're turning into a mad scientist before our eyes.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 21 2010, 08:41 AM

Dude, you have a real problem. When you get tired if this foolishness (after it is completed) you should sell it to me. I will start donating plasma now to save up

Posted by: Scott Schroeder May 21 2010, 09:17 AM

you get more done in a week than I do in a year!! Cant wait to see the car. Simply fantastic work!!

Posted by: KELTY360 May 21 2010, 09:50 AM

Still not sure how you'll make it rust.

Posted by: J P Stein May 21 2010, 11:10 AM

I was thinkin' that was the case....you haven't done anything half assed yet.
I've been watching your thread with interest....more so now as there may be a Subi in the shitboxes' future. It needs another 150hp and the 2 valve motor won't go there
at a reasonable price. I hear there a JDM TT Subi motor.....true?

Posted by: plymouth37 May 21 2010, 02:23 PM

Okay so here is where it gets interesting, as you can see the frame is not set up for the conventional vertical coilover placement. Having to build the frame a foot higher than it needed to be seemed like a waste of tubing and an unnecessary weight addition up high so I am going cantilever. And I rendered a little diagram:
Here is an exploded view:


And here it is with one inch past maximum travel in either direction.


I am using QA1 aluminum shocks with 400# springs and 4" travel, with the 2-1 lever the suspension will see 8" of travel and a 200# spring force.
The top of the shocks will mount on the X-member right above the diff, kind of like this very loose mock up. The coilovers also weigh a total of 6 pounds less than the stockers and that is pretty significant for a partially unsprung part.

Posted by: Dr Evil May 21 2010, 03:11 PM

SICK!

Posted by: MDG May 21 2010, 03:18 PM

Like I said, Mad Scientist. This is actually the apparatus that channels the lightning strike into creating life . . ..

Posted by: plymouth37 May 21 2010, 05:13 PM

Just grab some jumper cables and you are ready to go!

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby May 21 2010, 05:58 PM

I dunno...don't want to question your care in aligning things, but there are a couple photos that make it look like the rear structure is not aligned with the center axis of the front of the car. See how the rear looks to be too far to the passenger side in this photo? Maybe its the camera angle? Otherwise



Attached image(s)

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 21 2010, 07:57 PM

Jeff, I think it is just your eye as he has the triangle on the right side but not yet on the drivers side tricking your eye.

Posted by: lotus_65 May 21 2010, 07:59 PM

does this look any better jeff?

the camera angle is off a little to my eye, but i see what your talking about-

Posted by: plymouth37 May 21 2010, 09:04 PM

Trust me, it is dead on, that second main tube literally took 2 hours to place. It's funny I looked back through the pictures and they are all a little to the left, my inner compass must be a couple degrees off!

Posted by: Rand May 21 2010, 09:10 PM

We know Dana wouldn't build something crooked. You can see the shot is at an angle... Look at the bump hoops compared to the windshield frame and mirrors.

Dana, you never cease to amaze me. The only thing I'm worried about is you'll keep doing crazier things and it's not going to make it back on the road soon enough.

Posted by: J P Stein May 23 2010, 10:41 AM

What I don't see in the pic is the car center line scribed/marked on the floor.
I've been doing dimensioning all my professional life and that is where I would start.

Take a couple hours and establish the center line of the car ( that will take some doing), drop it down to the floor, then extend it out past the end of your work using a straight edge, string, wire, fishing line, yada. Be prepared to go back and check/realign the car if it *might* have moved.

Taking the possible camera angulation into account, it still looks off to the right per my eyeball.

My attempt to help.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 10:49 AM

With the help of the good doctor I rebuilt my tranny yesterday.


This is the point where you hope the Doc knows what he is doing because I was sure lost!


And back in the car the same day it was pulled, not a bad turnaround!


Thanks again to Dr. Evil, it was an awesome workshop and I learned a ton.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 10:57 AM

JP, I built a jig to locate the rear suspension and worked off of that for the location rather than a C/L because I was designing around the engine rather than off of blueprints. Rather than taking measurements off of the car to make a c/l I took measurements off of the car to make the cage, both techniques work to make a straight cage. Believe me, I am a student of architecture, I know how to measure things and I have quintuple checked with an actual measuring device and it is right on, the wheels on the other hand are not aligned so they do make things look a little wonky.

Posted by: J P Stein May 23 2010, 12:38 PM

Yeah, & I'm one of the dritbags that transform your pretty pictures into reality and I know my biddness. Jigging off an unknown surface location can cause you all kinds of grief. You can't even think in 3 dimensions until you build an axis system.

Posted by: MDG May 23 2010, 12:48 PM

I bet you looked at this stuff and went, "Hmmm, if I omit all this junk I could save another 32lbs!!"

Posted by: rsrguy3 May 23 2010, 12:59 PM

This is toooo funny. BTW, I've been following this thread for some time, and I gotta say I'm lovin it, I really like the cleanliness of your shop, and your attention to detail. The tower of Pisa had an architect too, it might have worked had the masons/dirtbags been listened to, they knew it didn't belong there. JP is just sayin' its almost impossible to pick points out of space w/out a proper foundation. You need to have solid a datum line to start from (not the car) in order to build correct fixtures (PC) from.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 02:58 PM

That is why I built a jig while the car was in one piece then removed the back half of the car around the jig, no datum, axis, points out of space, whatever, the suspension points were never lost in the process, I really don't see how there is a problem here.

Posted by: r_towle May 23 2010, 03:14 PM

So, at this point in the build, line it all up, create a centerline on the floor and double check...seems like a reasonable double check to make. You know what is kinda cool to use for this is a laser level.
The little ones that look like a telescope can project a line wherever you point it...so you can set up a few (they are cheap at Home Depot) and have a few straight lines to measure from...and they look cool at night.

One thing I wonder is how much things change as you weld...a mm here a mm there...

Rich

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 03:28 PM

Well if I quadruple my redline and go direct drive...
I wonder if it will start in 5th, would a 1-speed be lighter?

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 03:53 PM

I didn't remove the jigs until everything was totally welded and cooled and it was spot on, welding tweaks are a bitch and I was keeping an eye out for them.
There is a lot of good advise on this page so taking that in I drew a c/l with a projecting laser level and a plumb bob, the left suspension points are dead on, the right are in by 1/32 and the transaxle mounts are to the left by 1/16. I think I am okay with that.
I will pick out a few more points over the next hour of so just to be sure everything is beyond reproach.
Thanks for the help double checking that everything is okay!

Posted by: charliew May 23 2010, 04:01 PM

When it turns better one way than the other it will make you wonder. Or why it needs more air in the right rear that the left rear to set straight. Or when it's wet you get used to it always going to the left when you get on the brakes hard. A guy can get used to all these things. It will probably be just as straight as any other car with a tube frame.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 04:03 PM

Worst case I can circle track it, all left turns baby!

Posted by: Dr Evil May 23 2010, 08:29 PM

Dana, you clearly do not know what you are doing on your car

Posted by: charliew May 23 2010, 08:39 PM

He can always fall back on 914 tranny rebuilding in the denver area.

Posted by: plymouth37 May 23 2010, 09:19 PM

I don't know, I know even less about trannies than I do car construction!
Good thing I went back to school to get a non-car related degree or I would be screwed!

Posted by: budman5201 May 23 2010, 10:12 PM

wow! great work!! Makes my conversion look like its nothing. Amazing!

Posted by: Britain Smith Jun 30 2010, 12:34 AM

Does anyone know that this thread has been moved over here...it is quite.

-Britain

Posted by: charliew Jun 30 2010, 02:57 PM

I agree, it is kinda moving.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jun 30 2010, 05:26 PM

Moved? It has always been here.

Dana mentioned something about going on vacation or something so he wasn't going to do anything for a while. Something about going to Rome and getting robbed at gun point. Oh wait, the last part is from someone else

Posted by: BKLA Jun 30 2010, 05:32 PM

I think someone hyjacked britain's login and posted for him.

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 1 2010, 07:02 AM

Just flew in from Rome yesterday, the build thread is still where it has always been as far as I can tell and work will resume soon.

Posted by: majkos Jul 1 2010, 07:40 AM

Just kidding
Welcome home Dana!

Posted by: Crazyhippy Jul 1 2010, 02:28 PM

and boy my arms are tired...

Posted by: KELTY360 Jul 1 2010, 04:05 PM

About time You've got a lot of nerve leaving us hanging like this

Welcome back Dana

Posted by: Britain Smith Jul 1 2010, 07:35 PM

Well, there is a new Build Sub-Forum and a bunch of thread got moved there. Then all of them were stale...just wondered what was going on.

Let life resume...

-Britain

Posted by: Zundfolge Jul 1 2010, 10:04 PM

Looking at all the work going into this one I'd almost think it would be easier to design a fiberglass 914 body and install it on an Ariel Atom

Posted by: BKLA Jul 30 2010, 04:00 PM

Nothin' new goin' on??????

Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 30 2010, 05:40 PM

I actually spent all day welding on her today, I will post pics in a few days when I have made more progress.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2010, 01:17 PM

I have been doing some welding over the last couple of weeks.
I wanted to raise the door bars in the cabin to meet the rear tube chassis' upper bars but there was no way to do that except by having to wear a chunk of tube like a seat belt. Instead I decided to strengthen the existing cage and rockers in addition to making another tie-in point for the rear sub-frame.

I totally forgot to take pictures until I was almost done but here you can see the inner structure of the long, I welded in tubing to connect the two horizontal door bars and then continued the cage down through the rocker.




At the end of the lower bar I made another tie-in point for the lower portion of the rear tube frame.
The next step is to finish the lower section of the rear and weld up the rear suspension mounts.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 11 2010, 01:31 PM

You make me sick

Nice work as always Dana.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2010, 03:11 PM

I have the cage pretty much wrapped up. I ran out of mig wire so there are still a couple bits I need to finish.
Marc (Kelty360) stopped by today so I figured I would tidy things up and take the car off of it's semi-permanent bed of jackstands.

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2010, 03:11 PM

Next step is to design and fab up the rear suspension.

Posted by: Zaney Aug 11 2010, 06:17 PM

Awesome job as usual, Dana!

Simple question: how did you get the machined look in the bare metal? Wire wheel or another tool?

Thanks!
Nate

Posted by: plymouth37 Aug 11 2010, 06:32 PM

I knock the scale off of the tubing with a fine grid pad on a DA, as for the body it is "brushed" with tiny abrasive pads on an air powered angle grinder.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Aug 13 2010, 12:09 AM

I think this thread should be nailed

Posted by: MDG Aug 13 2010, 07:50 AM

I believe it's already in the 'Restoration' forum Andy created a few months back. In fact, I think it was the first one put in.

m.

Posted by: DBCooper Aug 13 2010, 10:56 AM

What? You want to have sex with this thread? Well that's sure different. No marriage though, right?

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 11 2010, 04:25 PM

I made some progress today. I pulled the drivetrain, finished welding the frame, and made the new suspension mounting points. I should be able to mock up most of the suspension within a week or so but here is how things look now. It is hilarious being able to pick the car up with one hand while placing a jackstand with the other, this thing is going to be so light!

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 11 2010, 09:37 PM

You know, the more I look at this the more I like it.

-Britain

Posted by: RobW Sep 12 2010, 08:21 AM

Wow!

Posted by: bigvag Sep 14 2010, 05:17 PM

congrats the last pic just became my background on my putter. If I had the skills to do this I would it looks sick. Can you post some more pic on how you connected everything into the longs. well the pics didn't show up with my post.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 14 2010, 08:20 PM

I didn't manage to get any good pics of the entire inner structure so here is a crappy illustration. The red lines are the tubes that run within the frame rail while the green lines are the plates that tie them into the long.

Posted by: bigvag Sep 14 2010, 09:18 PM

Do you have a pipe bender in house or do you take it somewhere? Aslo when you made the trailing arm mounts how did you bend the 1/8" metal around, english wheel?

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 14 2010, 09:54 PM

There is a guy a couple blocks from me that has a good stock of tubing and a nice digital hydraulic bender that he lets me use. Although I did the passenger compartment cage myself with a hand bender while I was at Wyotech years ago.
The 1/8" steel bends pretty easy, I just tacked, then bent it a little around the contour and tacked it again about 1/2" from the previous tack weld, the heat from a couple tacks loosens it up and you can shape it pretty easily.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 19 2010, 08:27 PM

I made some progress over the weekend. I did a string and level alignment on the rear of the car and dialed in the the caster and camber. With the wheels aligned the bolts that hold the outer trailing arm mounts are exactly in the middle of the alignment slots so when the time comes to get it professionally aligned it should be an easy
(or at least possible) job.
I also tacked on the central strut mount and mocked up the struts.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 19 2010, 08:27 PM

Posted by: scotty b Sep 19 2010, 08:32 PM

I M N awe. Definitely one of the best threads EVER on this site

Posted by: BKLA Sep 19 2010, 11:09 PM

looking forward to see what you are thinking with the pushrods and rocker assembly in the rear suspension.

Very C O O L!

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2010, 01:20 AM

I just read all 31 pages! WOW, simply amazing! Your car was the inspiration for my project, the way it looks is stunning!

Randall

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 29 2010, 01:51 AM

Thanks man, that means a lot coming from someone with your talent. Can't wait to see the next update to your build thread!
Just put some pieces back together on the car, hopefully I can find the time to make some progress over the weekend.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2010, 02:06 AM

What are you going to do with the rear body? After seeing some cars on this forum, I'm in serious doubt about which rear fenders to use with the tube frame.

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 29 2010, 02:15 AM

I am either going to buy stock looking fiberglass GT fenders or make them if I am feeling brave, then bond them to a lid to form a 1 piece tilt rear (kind of like a Muira). Then if I feel really really brave I will take a mold of my bonded rear and create a non-bonded 1 piece F/G rear.
My focus right now is on the chassis, I would like to get it drivable by next summer, then focus on fitting a body to the independent chassis.

Posted by: Hontec Sep 29 2010, 03:19 AM

Brave undertaking!
I'm thinking about buying GT complete fenders from a German company here, They are not just the bulges but complete fenders including sail panel and door frame. According to the 914 parts guy here, they are of good quality. This company also sells just the rear bulges but then a tad wider then the GT. I'm thinking of re-crafting these on the GT complete fenders and also buying the rear bumper/lip that fit's the new width and after making these to an exact fit, have them reproduced in Carbonfibre. Then also the rear trunk in CF.

I love the Sheridan rear, especially the wider one, but i would like to be able to open the trunk, on the other hand, I guess it would also be possible to adapt the sheridan to single fenders...




Here's what I mean

The GT fenders





The tad wider fenders




And the bumper to match

Posted by: jt914-6 Sep 29 2010, 04:24 AM

Great looking build.....your rear shock set up looks like what a friend of mine did to his race car....BTW this car is/was up for sale....unique center drive, hand built from the ground up 914 race car.....

Posted by: Ferg Sep 29 2010, 07:57 AM

Glad your Dog made it in the pic Can't wait to meet her Sunday.

Ferg

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 29 2010, 10:24 AM

Do you have any more pictures of this car, looks very interesting. Does it have custom control arms in the rear?

-Britain

Posted by: Cupomeat Sep 29 2010, 03:15 PM

Yes, Very interesting.

Do you have a picture of the shock actuator pivot arm and mount? Do you know what the ratio used was?

LOVE THIS STUFF!

Posted by: jt914-6 Sep 29 2010, 04:54 PM

Don't know about the actuator ratio or don't have a better pic....he was a little secretive about it but I'm sure he'd share info. He was a student of mine when I was instructing DE's. He's missed his calling in life. He built it from the ground up including body work & paint. PM me and I'll see if he'll share info. He's not a member of the world. Last time I talked to him it was for sale......
A older pic....



What it looks like now.....

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 29 2010, 05:00 PM

Nice...if it is for sale, try to get some more pictures.

-Britain

Posted by: Steve Sep 29 2010, 05:03 PM

Very nice car and amazing craftmanship, but I am always curious why someone puts so much money and time into a car and then sells it. Was the car not competitive? Hardship? Got bored of it and wanted to try something else?

Posted by: jt914-6 Sep 29 2010, 05:45 PM

He runs it in GT5 in PCA club racing and it has many wins and beats many others in higher classes. He's raced it and at least one other 914 for years. He is a family practice MD and I'm sure it has taken lots of his time. No hardship. As I said, he's missed his calling in life. Rear control arms are modified stock. I think he just may be tired of racing and his "pit crew" daughter is older now and is not going to races.
A couple of more pics

Posted by: Britain Smith Sep 29 2010, 08:54 PM

Looks awesome. Where is it listed for sale?

Posted by: plymouth37 Sep 29 2010, 10:30 PM

Cool project, it's nice to see that a cantilever suspension like this has been done before on a 914, thanks for the pics!

Posted by: jt914-6 Sep 30 2010, 04:57 AM

Thanks......your car is going to be great.....hijack over.....anyone wanting to know more about the center drive 914.....pm me.....

Posted by: brant Sep 30 2010, 07:56 AM

I ran wheel to wheel against your friends car. Nice car
that was about 1996 ish...

heartland park, topeka kansas...
spoke with him at length. The car was a lot less modified then. He that same front hood (metal) and gave me the idea of doing it to my hood. That is actually how I learned to weld too. After talking to your friend and building up the courage, I bought a welder and cut my hood. First thing I ever MIG welded... Twas not pretty... but with enough bondo it worked fine.

brant

Posted by: RJMII Nov 20 2010, 02:50 PM

Dana... here's your thread. It's lonely. It wants more pictures of recent progress that you've done.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 20 2010, 03:38 PM

Funny you should say that, I found a hole in my overwhelming school schedule to work on the beast, I am working out the geometry of the cantilever suspension now, should be able to post progress soon!

Posted by: majkos Nov 20 2010, 09:17 PM

Posted by: Hontec Nov 20 2010, 11:19 PM

Yep

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 12:10 AM

Here is what I have been playing with, it is a nice compact setup with a low cg. The springs are 400 lb/in and with the cantilever this is equivalent to about 250 lb/in at ride height and around 280 lb/in at full compression.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 21 2010, 12:29 AM

Just my 2C: but by putting the pivotpoint of the cantilever that far inward, in your setup, most of the force is used to raise the complete coilover instead of using that force to compress it. I could be wrong but by glancing over your drawing, that's the first thing that springs to my mind.

Randall

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 12:37 AM

From what I can figure out, there is a good amount of force used to rotate the assembly but ultimately the spring should properly counteract the rotation of the cantilever arm. I could be wrong though, anybody else have a couple cents they want to pitch in?

Posted by: Hontec Nov 21 2010, 01:04 AM

Your upward movement of the trailing arm now results in a lateral force on the pivot arm. By moving the pivot point out and slightly tilting the triangle you get only vertical force as a result from trailing arm movement, this is what you want. The cantilever only translates this into lateral force onto the coilover. Avoiding slight up/down movement of the coilover is almost impossible, but in trying you wil get the best linear suspension travel.

Trying to find a pic, but doing this from my i-phone in a hotelroom...... Doesn't work

Randall

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 01:22 AM

I see what you are saying, I have played around with a couple designs that were closer to what you are talking about. My main issue with those designs i was that it forced me to mount the springs very high in the car in order to make the geometry work, which in turn was blocking the path for my exhaust to make it to the back of the car. Should have sucked it up and gone with double a-arms in the rear, would have made mounting shocks a lot easier.

Posted by: Dr Evil Nov 21 2010, 05:31 AM

some inspiration from our motorcycle friends


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Posted by: geniusanthony Nov 21 2010, 07:10 AM

What would be the effect of a simple 90 deg bellcrank to transfer vertical motion into horizontal motion? The off center triangle designs exist for the tightest confines and non-linear travel like say bikes and such, like a mechanical means toward progressive action. Please correct me if I am wrong however.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 10:57 AM

This is what I was looking at before, a simple bell crank converting vertical motion to horizontal.

And here was my rendering using this concept.


I think this is the most straight forward solution but I was thinking about the offset cantilever because of space restrictions and the fact that the design above has a high center of gravity while the off set one is relatively low.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 11:07 AM

How do you guys think the handling would suffer if I went with the offset cantilever option? I think I am fine with the equivalent spring rate acting like a progressive spring adding around 7 pounds of extra spring force per inch of suspension compression, any opinions?
Here it is again for easy reference:


Here is a shot of an aftermarket wrangler suspension that looks similar, granted the Anklebiter will have a slightly different driving experience than this guy...

And another similar setup for a Nissan Titan:

My springs will be pointing towards each other rather than parallel but the lever action will work in the same way.

Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Nov 21 2010, 01:41 PM

Dana, you make me sick. I love your work. Keep it going. I keep looking at the pictures I took when I was at your house and druel regularly.

Posted by: jd74914 Nov 21 2010, 03:32 PM

My gut reaction is that the progressive change is a non-issue. I'm assuming the springs are maybe 1.5 orders of magnitude stiffer than the progressive increase so it probably will not be very noticeable at all.

One suggestion though. You might want to look into adding a bearing at the bellcrank's pivot point. While the car weights and hence suspension forces are radically different, we found the stiction to be pretty [unacceptably] high on our FSAE car with only a bushing.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 21 2010, 05:56 PM

Good point, I had planned on using a bushing there but was wondering if it was going to be an issue.

Posted by: Bee Jay Nov 23 2010, 01:21 AM

I just spent two evenings reading all 33 pages. Absolutely amazing work. I'm inspired and motivated.
Bee Jay

Posted by: smontanaro Nov 23 2010, 05:07 AM

Don't be fooled. It is actually a clever ploy to soak up our time and keep us from working on or driving our cars. With the cumulative evenings people have spent reading this thread two or three complete cars could have been restored!

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 23 2010, 10:27 PM

So I decided to go ahead with the design I posted earlier, I blew up my drawing to full size and made a template for the arms.

Today I built the suspension arms, I welded all of the seams from the inside, then welded and finished all of the seams on the outside. Now I have one bead of weld for structure and one for looks. I have a feeling I overbuilt the crap out of these but I would rather not risk it with suspension components. Even with the beefy arms this new suspension system weighs about a pound less per side than stock with a super low and inboard center of gravity.
I shot the arms with a coat of primer and will mock things up in the morning.

Posted by: Hontec Nov 24 2010, 01:47 AM

Lookin' good Can't wait for the mockup....

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 24 2010, 09:56 AM

I did a loose mockup this morning, everything is just held on with zipties but you can get a pretty good idea of how this is supposed to work. I ran it through its entire range of movement and it looks like I am free of interference and binding so the next step is building mounts for everything then connecting this assembly to the trailing arm.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 24 2010, 09:56 AM

Posted by: Ferg Nov 24 2010, 10:14 AM

Looking Good!

Hey you going to the Rod show in Denver Friday?

Ferg

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 24 2010, 10:36 AM

I am going to be in Wyoming until Sunday night so it looks like I will miss it, too bad, looks like it will be a good show!

Posted by: Hontec Nov 24 2010, 11:01 AM

Nice work, can't wait to see the rest of the construction!

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 24 2010, 06:10 PM

I think I will go with a bearing rather than the bushing I was planning on using. I just drilled a 1/2 hole at the pivot point for now to get the arm mounts placed, what type of bearings did you guys use on the FSAE car and where did you source them?

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Nov 24 2010, 06:16 PM

OK I have a stupid question that I have wanted to ask you for a long time. Why does your car stay so shiny?? Did you clear coat it? I love this build and am just wondering since every thing I touch turns immediately to rust. Would you consider leaving it shiny with grinder marks.... I think it looks cool.

Eagerly awaiting more pictures

-Pete

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 24 2010, 10:14 PM

The main factor is the fact that I live in Colorado and we have almost no humidity, any bare steel takes a good long time to gather even a dusting of surface rust. As far as the body goes I shot it with a layer of clear coat about 4 years ago and it has kept the rust at bay pretty well over the years. I did run the car for a couple years with just the clear coat, works pretty well when you can't afford a fancy paint job!

Posted by: McMark Nov 24 2010, 11:30 PM

I'm not sure I understand. Seems like that orientation will achieve very little shock compression, because the pivot point is not between the trailing arm attachment and the shock attachment.

What am I missing?


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Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 25 2010, 01:07 AM

The trailing arm will push up on what is now the open bolt hole in the pivot arm. That upward motion will cause the trailing arm to rotate in a counter-clockwise direction (on the passenger side). The upward force of the trailing arm is counteracted by the vertical and horizontal forces of the shock, given the angle of the shock about 392 pounds of its force will be acting horizontally on a point that is 5" above the pivot point while around 75 pounds of the shock resistance acts vertically on a point 7.5" off of the pivot point. These leverage points are counteracted by the trailing arm that attaches at a point 10" off of the pivot point. Since the trailing arm has a mechanical advantage on the shock the 400lb/in in the shock gets reduced down to about 250lb/in at the trailing arm which is just about what I want. Not sure if that clears anything up, I won't know for sure exactly how this thing will react until I get everything done and jump around on it

Posted by: MDG Nov 25 2010, 06:24 AM

Halfway through reading that I had to take a nap. I said it before, pages back - mad scientist at work here.

God I love this thread.

Posted by: plymouth37 Nov 25 2010, 09:26 AM

That was quite possibly one of the most boring things I have ever written.
The shape of the pivot arm is deceiving, the shock is given a lot more leverage than it looks like it should have.
And since the trailing arm has a mechanical advantage on the shock the spring needs to move less to counteract it. The spring will only have a 2-3 inch range of compression.
While I am on here: Have a Happy Thanksgiving Everybody!

Posted by: MDG Nov 25 2010, 10:03 AM

To be clear, Dana, my sudden case of narcolepsy had nothing to do with boredom. In fact, I found your explanation to be enlightening. The nap was to give my brain a rest before continuing.