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Posted by: McMark Jul 20 2008, 05:00 PM

I'm installing a MicroSquirt system.

This thread IS NOT A MS/SDS/Carb DEBATE! If you don't like MS please leave. I'm tired of the endless, worthless debate.

Anyway, now on the the fun stuff!

I am using the TPS off of a Volvo 850 because it's a Bosch sensor (I like sticking with OEM manufacturers when possible), fits the D-shaft throttle and is appropriate for MS. I made the adapter plate today.





Attached image(s)

Posted by: McMark Jul 20 2008, 05:10 PM

Here is the wiring harness I had Jeff Keyzer make me. We sourced all the correct, uncrimped connectors so each connector could be attached directly to the harness wires.

The MicroSquirt unit is tiny, weatherproof, robotically soldered using surface mount components, and shielded from EMF. It was originally designed for motorcycles, but I think in our case, it's a much more appropriate choice than your standard MegaSquirt.

The injector on the left is a custom made high-impedance injector that works perfectly in our manifolds with stock hold-downs, stock connectors, and will allow use of the stock fuel rails. No resistor packs necessary.

Posted by: Gint Jul 20 2008, 05:33 PM

Giddyup! Right on Mark. Microsquirt? Never heard of it. Price? Are the connectors readily available and not unobtainium? Where do those "custom made high-impedance" injectors come from? Price?

Screw all of that. When you getting working I might just be the first in line.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 20 2008, 05:36 PM

This looks very interesting.
Is the microsquirt just an off the shelf unit?
Injectors? also off the shelf?

Looks like a fun project and I would really love the hear the results, how easy it is to tune, and how much of a cam it may support....

Rich

Posted by: ejm Jul 20 2008, 05:42 PM

They have an http://www.microsquirt.info/ and http://microsquirt.com/

Posted by: ericread Jul 20 2008, 06:00 PM

How about some background information?

4-Cylinder?
2.0L Engine?
Year?
Approximate cost for your conversion?

Sorry, but I am really interested in what the future will bring to our cars, and this information would really be helpful. What kind of tuning problems did you experience? And what is your anticipated gas mileage?

If this provides a really efficient motor that can be variably tuned for mileage and for performance, that would be really cool.

Thanks in advance.

Posted by: McMark Jul 20 2008, 06:01 PM

This setup will be expensive. But doing it right is usually not cheap.

MicroSquirt: $400
LC-1 WB-O2: $200
MAP: $64
TPS: $75
TPS Connector: $35 (this connector had to come from europe)
Custom Injectors: $85 each, $340 for four
Wiring Harness: price is not set but more than $400
Injector Connectors: $12 each, $48 for four

I think when everything is done, it'll be around $2000 for the bolt in setup. I'm keeping drawings of my custom parts so that they can be laser/waterjet cut in the future. Everything will mount in the engine bay, so this will be a no cutting/modifying installation (except O2 sensor bung). Also, if everything goes according to plan, the stock fuel pump/fuel regulator will be used, which will save a significant amount of money and maintain a stock look.

Posted by: toon1 Jul 20 2008, 06:26 PM

Looks good Mark .

Posted by: McMark Jul 20 2008, 07:07 PM

Cold start block off...

MS does cold start enrichment in software and widens the pulse width, so the archaic 'fifth' injector isn't necessary.

I will be using the archaic AAR though. So the feed bracket goes on.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: rick 918-S Jul 20 2008, 07:29 PM

Nice work Mark!

Posted by: Rick_Eberle Jul 20 2008, 07:37 PM

Looks great! Where are you planning to mount it? Stock location? Is the MAP separate in the MicroSquirt?

Posted by: SirAndy Jul 20 2008, 08:04 PM

schweet!


how about using these for some extra low end torque?

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Jul 20 2008, 08:11 PM

Yay Mark! Yay Jeff K

Posted by: Joe Owensby Jul 20 2008, 08:14 PM

Great work. I am thinking of going to one of the aftermarket FI systems for my car, hopefully sometime next year. Looking for a good reliable system that can feed the motor correctly to get maximum drivability, fuel economy on the road, and then preformance. Your approach sounds very interesting. Thanks for sharing. JoeO

Posted by: McMark Jul 20 2008, 09:17 PM

Posted by: mikez Jul 20 2008, 10:25 PM

Go for it....good luck.

I got the bad news today....my Type I MEGAsquirt motor needs to be torn down.....stooopid freaking head studs are pulling out of the NEW case......arrrgh....

Posted by: jkeyzer Jul 20 2008, 11:21 PM

Nice writeup Mark! I am glad to be involved in such a cool project.

Posted by: Elliot Cannon Jul 21 2008, 01:20 AM

Modern fuel injection is the way to go. My trip to WRC was just over 2000 miles and I averaged 25 miles per gallon with my 3.2. My other car with a 2.2 liter type IV engine with Weber 44idf carbs gets about 18 MPG!!?? Go figure. I'd love to get rid of the Webers and replace them with fuel injection. Keep us informed how this works out for you Mark.
Cheers, Elliot

Posted by: james2 Jul 21 2008, 06:03 AM

your webers need work, my 56 oval gets 26 mpg with dual DRLAs ...and runs 12's.

QUOTE(Elliot Cannon @ Jul 20 2008, 11:20 PM)

Posted by: watsonrx13 Jul 21 2008, 06:31 AM

Very nice Mark. I just finished reading Excellence mag this weekend and they have an article about upgrading a '74 911 to a modern EFI system, also a bolt in modification, except adding a bung to the exhaust. The total cost of the system was $1695.

-- Rob

Posted by: RJMII Jul 21 2008, 12:11 PM

Glad to see someone doing this! You going to do a whole progress follow along thread here?

(i hope this the right emoticon for wanting to watch along...)

Posted by: retrofit Jul 21 2008, 01:03 PM

Looking forward to taking this for a test drive...
Allen

Posted by: jgara962 Jul 21 2008, 02:47 PM

Looks like a cool project Mark.


What are some of the benefits you expect to see from this? Smoother running? Better mileage? More power!!?

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 21 2008, 06:51 PM

I'd love a 6cyl version Nice job man

Posted by: TimT Jul 21 2008, 07:33 PM

Microsquirt cant do a 6 cyl. It only has two ignition and two injection drivers.

Posted by: Rotary'14 Jul 21 2008, 08:50 PM

QUOTE(TimT @ Jul 21 2008, 06:33 PM)

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 21 2008, 09:26 PM

Why cant you batch fire a 6 like the 4 does?

Posted by: Brian_Boss Jul 21 2008, 09:49 PM

Stock 911 Carrera Motronic batch fires the injectors with only 2 drivers. Seemed to work OK on my '87.

Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 21 2008, 09:55 PM

QUOTE(Brian_Boss @ Jul 21 2008, 11:49 PM)

Stock 911 Carrera Motronic batch fires the injectors with only 2 drivers. Seemed to work OK on my '87.

Posted by: TimT Jul 22 2008, 02:09 AM

Batch firing injectors is fine... The ignition is where the microsquirt falls short. We have built a bunch of /6s w/o distributors... so I kind of forget that distributors still exist

We like to use waste fire ignition for the /6s we build and you can get a sort of semi-sequential without a cam sensor with some systems, That takes 6 drivers minimum. So yes I spoke off the cuff because the microsquirt cant handle the applications we typically set up.

Revisiting the microsquirt site, you can do a 6 using a distributor, and batch firing the injectors. If the software could let you reassign one of the injection drivers to be an ignition driver the many more possibilites open up.

After all I have a 900hp 935 clone in my stable that has batch fired injectors (and waste spark ignition)

Sorry for the confusion... I still plan on building a car with either microsquit or megasquirt at some point, justs to see what its all about...We've had all the big name EFI systems come through the shop in the past few year... I still like to see what else is out there..

Posted by: type47 Jul 22 2008, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 20 2008, 04:01 PM)

Posted by: Rick_Eberle Jul 22 2008, 10:13 AM

QUOTE(type47 @ Jul 22 2008, 11:56 PM)

Posted by: McMark Jul 22 2008, 11:33 AM

Posted by: RJMII Jul 22 2008, 11:46 AM

Megasquirt II and Microsquirt can be configured to use the ford EDIS (electronic Distributorless Ignition System) to use coil packs and the wasted spark setup.

The wasted spark setups that you (TimT) are using, are they built into the systems?


McMark, I'm going to venture to guess, since you are wanting stock configuration look, that you are using the distributor and going off of the tach sending wire for a signal to the Microsquirt?

Posted by: TimT Jul 22 2008, 07:01 PM

Posted by: TimT Jul 22 2008, 07:08 PM

I happen to have the engine of my car out while I regear the transmission ( yet again )

I used a Link ECU and the ignition module they supplied... this was another EFI system test....and yes Link is a good system... especially the G3 ecus... but I digress.

Posted by: TimT Jul 22 2008, 07:09 PM

In this pic you can see the TPS, IAT, CAS, and if you look really hard the knock sensor



Sorry bout the hijack Mark

Posted by: McMark Jul 22 2008, 11:53 PM

No problem. All good info.

I have more pictures to post tomorrow.

Posted by: McMark Jul 23 2008, 12:23 PM

Here are some more pictures of the installation as it progresses.




Here is the ECU mount. I forgot to take a picture of the mounting plate. It's a 5" x 5" square with two holes at the top to mount to the battery tray and four holes halfway down to mount the ECU. Nothing fancy.

Posted by: ClayPerrine Jul 23 2008, 01:08 PM

Really cool work.

Now if you really want a STEALTH system, take the ECU and put it in a gutted D-jet ECU case, and put the MAP sensor inside a gutted MPS.

Posted by: porsche913b_sp Jul 23 2008, 01:22 PM

QUOTE(ClayPerrine @ Jul 23 2008, 12:08 PM)

Really cool work.

Now if you really want a STEALTH system, take the ECU and put it in a gutted D-jet ECU case, and put the MAP sensor inside a gutted MPS.

Posted by: Zundfolge Jul 23 2008, 03:04 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 20 2008, 05:01 PM)

Posted by: McMark Jul 23 2008, 08:20 PM

Posted by: grantsfo Jul 23 2008, 09:16 PM

QUOTE(TimT @ Jul 22 2008, 06:01 PM)

QUOTE

he wasted spark setups that you (TimT) are using, are they built into the systems?

Not so much that they are built into the system in that we configure the ECUs we use (Haltechs) for waste spark. It is all in the software configuration. We have been having a pretty good run lately installing about one per month E6X systems.

Dont want to hijack McMarks thread to much but here are some installs... We usually use Bosch 3 channel ignition modules..

3.7L Hi-output /6



coil board set up

Posted by: TimT Jul 24 2008, 01:22 AM

Mark, If I were doing this install I might do something a bit different..

I'd mount the ECU inside the the car.. You can get a nice hefty rubber grommet to pass the harness throught the firewall http://www.sealsit.com/firewall.asp. Then the ECU is bit out of the weather, and from what I see of the microsquirt harness, the serial connector for your laptop will be inside the car.

In the 911s we mount the ECU under the drivers seat usually, on a shock mounted aluminum platform... In a 914 you could easily mount the brain on the firewall behind either the driver or passengers seat.. and snake the serial connector under the carpet along the tunnel..

Sit in the drivers seat...laptop on passenger seat and tune away

Just a thought

Posted by: McMark Jul 24 2008, 11:30 AM

If this were a traditional MS install I would definitely do that. But since the MicroSquirt has FAR SUPERIOR connectors which are all weather proof, I'm not a bit concerned about water. It's designed to be mounted on open frame motorcycles. Also, the serial cable unplugs once tuning is complete. This install doesn't need any additional holes cut in the body. I'll take a picture in a minute to illustrate the seals.

Posted by: smdubovsky Jul 24 2008, 12:12 PM

The microsquirt uses ampseal(?) connectors. We used to use the exact same ones @ GE in our motor drives that had to be able to survive FDA type washdown duty. They are VERY well sealed connectors.

Tim, I've got a twin plug 911 w/ a haltech E11. Im sending you an email.

Posted by: McMark Jul 24 2008, 07:53 PM

Here's the picture of the AMPSEAL connector. You can see the red seal around the perimeter.

Posted by: biggy72 Nov 13 2008, 12:15 AM

How did this thing turn out? Everything run alright? Where did you get the connectors from? I've got an ms3 board I'm going to put together at some point, but I'm going to stick with D jet until I feel a little more comfortable with it and have all of the parts put together to put it all together.

Before someone says not to change, I won't have a stock engine forever but I want to stick with FI.

Posted by: Gint Nov 13 2008, 08:59 AM

How did this turn out?

Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 13 2008, 10:27 AM

Just re-read the whole thing. Cool.

Posted by: Root_Werks Nov 13 2008, 11:13 AM

This is a good thread. Certainly an update or maybe even a must do with some of the D-Jet parts NLA. Thanks for the write up.

Posted by: RJMII Nov 13 2008, 12:13 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jul 24 2008, 06:53 PM)

Here's the picture of the AMPSEAL connector. You can see the red seal around the perimeter.

Posted by: smdubovsky Nov 13 2008, 01:05 PM

QUOTE(RJMII @ Nov 13 2008, 01:13 PM)

Posted by: kconway Nov 13 2008, 02:50 PM

QUOTE(smdubovsky @ Nov 13 2008, 11:05 AM)

QUOTE(RJMII @ Nov 13 2008, 01:13 PM)

Where does that connector go? is that the one that attaches to the MS?

Yes, that connector goes to the MS. AFAIK, ampseal connectors were difficult to get in small qty. That may have changed. Its not an issue w/ the MS since it comes w/ both halves (plus, Im sure they are ordering them in large qty.)

Posted by: RJMII Nov 13 2008, 04:41 PM

QUOTE(kconway @ Nov 13 2008, 01:50 PM)

Posted by: LarryR Nov 13 2008, 10:30 PM

Hey Mark,

That is sweet! I saw a few earlier comments about a 6 cylinder. Have you given any consideration to doing a megasquirt or other system for the pmo throttle bodies?

Larry

Posted by: CliffBraun Nov 14 2008, 12:48 AM

Re MS and going distributorless, there is apparently some board in development that would let you fire up to 8 injectors and plugs on their own. In my mind this becomes a very efficient, very nifty coil on plug system. The injector thing is cool, but you're really only getting benefit at low RPM (primarily low temp, even) because your injectors are open longer than the valves at the top end.
Anywho, I would have linked the page but I couldn't find it. Does anybody know any more about this than I?

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Nov 14 2008, 10:21 AM

considering what you get and the current cost and quality issues of available induction systems, it's not that expensive

nice work

what about the naked wires on teh back of teh ECU plug?

Posted by: horizontally-opposed Nov 14 2008, 11:09 AM

Me, myself, and I are watching this thread closely.

pete

Posted by: McMark Nov 14 2008, 11:32 AM

Okay, here's the update... The MicroSquirt doesn't really run as fuel only. We had a lot of problems with the unit resetting each time a spark plug fired. So this has been sitting a bit while I develop a nice crank fire setup. Plus making the decision of whether to do Coil-Near-Plug or a traditional setup. And finally, my test motor had to leave. But the new test motor will be done next week. I'm waiting to get the crank trigger wheel from the machine shop. I'll keep ya'll posted, but we probably won't have any serious testing underway until late Dec, or in the new year.

Posted by: banger Nov 14 2008, 11:37 AM

Actually you can do coil on plug quite easily with the megasquirt. You dont need the extra board either. You can take the Ford EDIS module, and instead of having it run coilpacks, it can be wired to run coil on plug. It is still running a wasted spar system, but instead of having 1 coil fire 2 plugs, now you have 2 coils firing 2 plugs.

QUOTE(CliffBraun @ Nov 13 2008, 10:48 PM)

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 14 2008, 11:40 AM

I'd go with the coils Tim has in his pic's, same as what SDS uses (although Tim's coils are aftermarket), basically off the shelf GM units.

Posted by: CliffBraun Nov 14 2008, 03:50 PM

QUOTE(banger @ Nov 14 2008, 09:37 AM)

Actually you can do coil on plug quite easily with the megasquirt. You dont need the extra board either. You can take the Ford EDIS module, and instead of having it run coilpacks, it can be wired to run coil on plug. It is still running a wasted spar system, but instead of having 1 coil fire 2 plugs, now you have 2 coils firing 2 plugs.

QUOTE(CliffBraun @ Nov 13 2008, 10:48 PM)

Re MS and going distributorless, there is apparently some board in development that would let you fire up to 8 injectors and plugs on their own. In my mind this becomes a very efficient, very nifty coil on plug system. The injector thing is cool, but you're really only getting benefit at low RPM (primarily low temp, even) because your injectors are open longer than the valves at the top end.
Anywho, I would have linked the page but I couldn't find it. Does anybody know any more about this than I?

Posted by: type47 Nov 14 2008, 05:11 PM

what is the compatibility between MS and the type of camshaft? is MS sensitive to agressive cams like D-jet? the reason i ask is my "next" motor is to be a 96mm digital FI motor but i have a "race" motor on the floor that had carbs. i don't remember the specs on the cam, i have the build sheet, but i'd bet it was a carb cam. so my question is (to save me from building a motor up from the crank), can i install MS on this "race" motor?

Posted by: Marty Yeoman Nov 14 2008, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(type47 @ Nov 14 2008, 03:11 PM)

Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 14 2008, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(Marty Yeoman @ Nov 14 2008, 06:25 PM)

QUOTE(type47 @ Nov 14 2008, 03:11 PM)

What is the compatibility between MS and the type of camshaft?

This question has been in the the back of my mind for this entire thread.

Mark,
What cam type are you testing with?
It this system compatible with the stock L-jet cam?
Marty

Posted by: Rick_Eberle Nov 14 2008, 05:38 PM

QUOTE(type47 @ Nov 15 2008, 10:11 AM)

Posted by: McMark Nov 15 2008, 11:17 PM

with both of the above. Every new cam, or more generally, every new motor combo (heads, cam, bore, stroke, CR, etc) will need a new tuning of the FI maps. So yes it's useable, but it still needs to be tuned.

I got a picture of the trigger wheel from the machine shop. A bit of a goof on two of the holes, but that's fixed on the future ones. This trigger wheel will drop on in place of the fan spacer. Once I get this in hand, I'll need to devise a sensor mount. Ideally, it'll be something that could be installed without removing the fan housing. But we'll see about that.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: ConeDodger Nov 16 2008, 12:12 PM

Nice Mark!
The fan comes apart right? What if you took off the back piece and remanufactured it to be a trigger wheel. Then you could rebalance the whole thing. I like what you have done. This is just an idea I had and I wonder if you think it would work?

Posted by: McMark Nov 17 2008, 11:24 AM

It would definitely work, it would just be lots more labor intensive than this. Actually, I think in the case of modding the fan, it would be sufficient to simply insert a magnet in the perimeter.

Posted by: toon1 Nov 17 2008, 12:59 PM

Nice trigger wheel Mark.

I mounted the VR sensor in the back side of the fan housing. It worked great. I was able to get the distance between the wheel and the sensot to about .75mm.

I took the fan housing on and off a few times to double check that things did not change and it's very repeatable.

It's been about 4k miles with no issues. Have pics if needed.

Posted by: smdubovsky Nov 17 2008, 01:21 PM

QUOTE(kconway @ Nov 13 2008, 03:50 PM)

Posted by: 3d914 Nov 17 2008, 01:33 PM

Jim & Marty,

I had the Web #73 cam with my 2.0/4 using Megasquirt - and that was before they had the combined Speed-density/Alph-N. Iwas able to get that cam with some overlap to idle well. The stock cam would have been a piece of cake, since it has no overlap (IIRC).

The real benefits you'll find with the new systems is the simpler & more reliable MAP sensors. No more guessing either - you get good sensor feedback in real-time. You'll NEVER GO BACK!

Keep up the good work Mark.

Enjoy,

Posted by: McMark Jan 5 2009, 09:43 PM

FINALLY made some more progress on this install. I got the toothed wheel back from Mike Mueller, who did the mods for me. It fits just fine and I installed it on my latest 2056 during the cam break in. So it spins just fine, as expected.

I did a lot of searching in the back room of my local NAPA, opening every VR sensor box they had to find one that was small and light. This is the one that I found and I assembled a quick test bracket. The VR sensor will mount on the existing case stud so there will be no holes or other modifications made to any parts.

Installing this system will require the motor to be removed and the fan housing to be unbolted. Even though removing the motor isn't ideal for a 'bolt-on' system, I think that eliminating the need for permanent modifications is a worthwhile goal.

Anyway, here's the pics. I have a couple videos as well that I'll post shortly.



Attached image(s)

Posted by: McMark Jan 5 2009, 10:14 PM

Videos!

Posted by: toon1 Jan 6 2009, 09:35 AM

Slick!!

Posted by: alex914 Jan 6 2009, 04:23 PM

That's great!

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 5 2009, 08:14 PM)

Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 6 2009, 04:35 PM

Can you use the micro squirt without the ignition feature? I would be interested in using only the stock D-jet parameters initially: TPS, MAP. I have a friend interested in this.
Thanks and great job so far

Posted by: jhadler Jan 6 2009, 04:47 PM

Okay! That's super slick!

Giving me an idea for mounting the trigger wheel of my (sitting-on-a-shelf-gathering-dust) electromotive ignition...

Now that the motor is fully apart, now would be the time to make that change...

Then, if it's unobtrusive, I can leave it there 'till I decide to implement all of it.

Hmm....

-Josh2

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jan 6 2009, 04:58 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 5 2009, 09:43 PM)

FINALLY made some more progress on this install. I got the toothed wheel back from Mike Mueller, who did the mods for me. It fits just fine and I installed it on my latest 2056 during the cam break in. So it spins just fine, as expected.

I did a lot of searching in the back room of my local NAPA, opening every VR sensor box they had to find one that was small and light. This is the one that I found and I assembled a quick test bracket. The VR sensor will mount on the existing case stud so there will be no holes or other modifications made to any parts.

Installing this system will require the motor to be removed and the fan housing to be unbolted. Even though removing the motor isn't ideal for a 'bolt-on' system, I think that eliminating the need for permanent modifications is a worthwhile goal.

Anyway, here's the pics. I have a couple videos as well that I'll post shortly.

Posted by: jhadler Jan 6 2009, 05:19 PM

QUOTE(Bartlett 914 @ Jan 6 2009, 02:58 PM)

Posted by: McMark Jan 6 2009, 07:21 PM

Yup, the timing gear is the exactly the same thickness as the stock washer. There is a picture, earlier in the thread, that shows the stock washer on top of the gear (http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?s=&showtopic=86244&view=findpost&p=1102457). 100% non-modify installation. True bolt-on.

Posted by: Bartlett 914 Jan 7 2009, 09:20 AM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 6 2009, 07:21 PM)

Posted by: toon1 Jan 7 2009, 09:25 AM

QUOTE(Dr Evil @ Jan 6 2009, 02:35 PM)

Can you use the micro squirt without the ignition feature? I would be interested in using only the stock D-jet parameters initially: TPS, MAP. I have a friend interested in this.
Thanks and great job so far

Posted by: McMark Jan 7 2009, 05:22 PM

MicroSquirt can do fuel only, but you'll still need the crank sensor, so why not do ignition. MicroSquirt will not trigger off coil fire like MegaSquirt will.

Posted by: smdubovsky Jan 7 2009, 05:35 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 7 2009, 06:22 PM)

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 7 2009, 06:22 PM)

Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 7 2009, 07:04 PM

I'll do the Mega Squirt, then. The guy wants it to be a basic upgrade to the D-jet that will fit in the stock D-jet stuff. If I could have used the Micro it would save me some assembly time, but cost me money as he is going to pay me to assemble it as well.

Thanks for the info

Posted by: Krieger914 Jan 7 2009, 07:27 PM

Nice work Mark! Keep us posted.

Posted by: McMark Jan 8 2009, 02:53 PM

I originally tried to run the MicroSquirt fuel only with crank position sensed by when the coil fired (trigger on coil negative), but it would not work because of EM feedback. The coil is a really really dirty place to get a signal from.

Posted by: Brian_Boss Jan 8 2009, 11:01 PM

I'm sure Mark considerd this but why couldn't you use the FI trigger points in a stock D-jet distributor for Microsquirt?

Posted by: toon1 Jan 9 2009, 09:08 AM

QUOTE(Brian_Boss @ Jan 8 2009, 09:01 PM)

Posted by: smdubovsky Jan 9 2009, 10:52 AM

D-jet points trigger the coil directly? (excuse my 914 ignorance, but I remember people messing w/ them at the cookouts.) If so, there is high voltage on that line when they open = no good for a trigger. You COULD use the points as a trigger if you're NOT driving a coil directly from them, like if you're using a MSD or CDI ignition.

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jan 9 2009, 10:54 PM

The D-jet points only hook up to the ECU, not to the coil. Each one triggers once per full cam revolution (two crank revolutions), not four times. It would probably work OK as an RPM indication, but not so good indicating crank or cam position.

Plus the D-jet distributors are old and sloppy. Controlling the spark directly is much much more precise.

--DD

Posted by: McMark Jan 22 2009, 06:19 PM

Jeff Keyzer and I installed the MicroSquirt on a motor that I have bolted to my test-fire stand and installed the crank fire components to test it out.

Great news! It ran! Well, a little bit anyway. Now that we know it will run, I need to install exhaust manifolds for the O2 sensor, clean up some wiring, check the fuel pressure, and a few other things. Then we'll do some real tuning.

Things are moving along. Hopefully, next month I will have this all finalized. It's taken long enough.

Posted by: jkeyzer Jan 22 2009, 07:28 PM

Mark's VR sensor solution is top notch. Great, steady RPM signal - much better than anything I have ever seen off of an ignition coil.

Posted by: McMark Jan 22 2009, 08:40 PM

Yeah, I was really surprised by how clearly the MS read 175 rpm under cranking. I'm used to seeing erratic jumps that you mentally average. This was rock solid timing. Very cool.

Posted by: hulken Mar 14 2009, 05:50 AM

QUOTE(McMark @ Nov 16 2008, 06:17 AM)

with both of the above. Every new cam, or more generally, every new motor combo (heads, cam, bore, stroke, CR, etc) will need a new tuning of the FI maps. So yes it's useable, but it still needs to be tuned.

I got a picture of the trigger wheel from the machine shop. A bit of a goof on two of the holes, but that's fixed on the future ones. This trigger wheel will drop on in place of the fan spacer. Once I get this in hand, I'll need to devise a sensor mount. Ideally, it'll be something that could be installed without removing the fan housing. But we'll see about that.

Posted by: McMark Jul 2 2009, 08:10 PM

UPDATE: JeffK (mightyohm) came by again today and we made another test run of the MicroSquirt motor. It worked really well in fuel only mode.

But it still doesn't like to drive the coil. We're pretty sure it's a feedback/noise issue. So a little more playing and this system will be 100% developed.

And just to cross post, my crank trigger setup is available http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=96656.

Posted by: chocolate.curry Jul 3 2009, 06:06 AM

I didn't see this mentioned earlier in this thread, but maybe I missed it: are you using an EDIS coilpack for the ignition?

Posted by: McMark Jul 3 2009, 10:45 AM

There are no EDIS components.

We're trying to get the MicroSquirt to drive a standard coil. But coil-on-plug is another possibility.

Posted by: r_towle Jul 3 2009, 11:02 AM

Give the lack of decent distributors, and the low tech wobbly (spark jumping) setup we have now...I would be very very interested in how to do a coil on plug setup....

I am (someday) going to build this 2.0 liter motor...
I need to CLEAN more stuff up...(can you tell I am tired of cleaning)

Should be soon and I have no idea how to approach a coil on plug solution, but I would really like to do it...and cheap.

Im running carbs (that is the plan right now)

Rich

Posted by: McMark Jul 3 2009, 11:17 AM

I just bought four COP coils for testing...

Posted by: chocolate.curry Jul 3 2009, 04:03 PM

So from what I know about megasquirt/microsquirt, many folks use the ford EDIS system in wasted spark mode for full fuel and ignition control. The EDIS stuff can be had for very cheap, and the EDIS controller takes a VR signal (as from McMarks trigger wheel setup) and can control ignition. Timing can be controlled by the Mega/Microsquirt ECU. More information here:

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

I have gotten one of McMarks trigger wheel and will probably go this route when I get around to installng since I currently have a carbed setup and will essentially need to start from scratch anyway. I guess for those updating the stock setup could get going with fewer parts.

Posted by: falconfp2001 Aug 17 2011, 12:47 PM

do you think a newer 911 TPS may work?

Frank

Posted by: rdauenhauer Jan 29 2012, 10:51 PM

Any updates

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 18 2014, 05:57 PM

QUOTE(rdauenhauer @ Jan 29 2012, 08:51 PM)

Any updates

Posted by: McMark Jan 18 2014, 08:04 PM

I drive it every day on the turbo car. Runs great.

Were you curious about something more specific?

Posted by: r_towle Jan 18 2014, 08:11 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 18 2014, 09:04 PM)

Posted by: McMark Jan 18 2014, 08:26 PM

This setup got fully developed although I can't seem to remember the timeline and who got the first one. Maybe I did. There are a couple of install threads from people who have bought the setup.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=147904
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=145791

You can see the final COP setup here in this pic.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 18 2014, 08:36 PM

That is more confusing for me.
I see the coils, the. I see the raw ends of the plugs???

Am I missing something?

Posted by: gothspeed Jan 18 2014, 08:45 PM

QUOTE(McMark @ Jan 18 2014, 06:04 PM)