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Posted by: r_towle Jan 28 2004, 04:13 PM

pjl;kj


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Posted by: r_towle Jan 28 2004, 04:16 PM

And this


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Posted by: r_towle Jan 28 2004, 04:17 PM

And this


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Posted by: Jeroen Jan 28 2004, 05:19 PM

check kanna motorsports for the 935 style front suspension and the double adjustable dampers/struts
http://www.kannamotorsports.com

The camberplates you pictured won't fit a 914 (without major surgery)
Tarett has nice (front) camberplates that will allow for extra neg.camber http://www.tarett.com
Don't know if the WEVO camber plates are for sale yet, but you could send 'em an e-mail http://www.wevo.com

If you're just looking for monoball inserts for the stock front "camberplates" check http://www.elephantracing.com or Smart Racing Products

Racer Chris (Foley) has monoball rear shock mounts (haven't got a link at hand, but he posts here on a regular basis)

HTH,

Jeroen

Posted by: ChrisReale Jan 28 2004, 07:13 PM

Are rear momoballs worth it? Are their purpose basically the same as front monoballs? I know the rear has nothing to do with camber...

Posted by: ! Jan 28 2004, 07:19 PM

Group buy anyone???

Posted by: brant Jan 28 2004, 07:22 PM

Yeah... I'd like to hear Chris or someone describe the rear.....

even with up/down deflection.. you would only get additional "suspention" or give ... no alignment change in the rear


Chris, inquiring minds want to know?

brant

Posted by: steve@ottosvenice.com Jan 28 2004, 07:27 PM

I will take some Photos of Rudy on Friday, I will have em up on the rack prepping from Willow. Steve

Posted by: brant Jan 28 2004, 07:28 PM

steve, please clarify..

do these photos show rear tops?
why would this be a benefit on the rear?

b

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 28 2004, 07:32 PM

Wwwoooo. (Noise is a low quite kind of a grunt. sound of a guy leaking testosterone) These kind of leaks spring when a hottie bends over to adjust the strap on her pump. You know what I mean...Or when some one posts coool car parts. That's really cooool......

Posted by: aufaber Jan 28 2004, 07:32 PM

Better order some coils with those fronts.

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 28 2004, 07:45 PM

IIRC Chris' monoball rears also raise the rear mount
I think with the rears it not to keep the alignment set, but to let the shock move more freely

But I'll just shaddap and let Chris do the talking...
(hope he'll catch this thread)

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 28 2004, 07:47 PM

BTW... where did you snatch those pics?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: r_towle Jan 28 2004, 08:30 PM

There is a race car for sale in the classifieds...
The web site with the car has parts, but doesnt seem to sell these parts, but he had the pics.

Rich

Posted by: URY914 Jan 28 2004, 09:07 PM

http://www.tangerineracing.com/

Posted by: URY914 Jan 28 2004, 09:09 PM

here it is


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Posted by: Jeroen Jan 29 2004, 11:34 AM

The pics aren't all 914 parts... some are for the 911 and 964 and later models (like the camberplates and the struts)
The stainless headers look nice though

Anyway... makes me wonder
Would a 964 strut fit to a pre '89 911 balljoint?
That would open up huge possibilities for coil-over set-ups, dampers and brake upgrades.
Cheap and simple

If the strut doesn't fit the 911 balljoint, would it be possible to fab a special balljoint that would?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: r_towle Jan 29 2004, 04:17 PM

Mainly I am interested in the front coil over setup at the top of the post.
I have seen this in a modify your 914 book on a race car in the back of the book...

I would like to delete the torsion bars and go with coil over suspension....
So, on that thought, who / where would I need to go...

R

Posted by: brant Jan 29 2004, 06:41 PM

Very easy to find... that front is out there...
erp, smart, call race shops...

oh yeah .. bring money in big boxes..


question #2 WHY...
Just playing devils advocate off the top of my head:
-more sprung weight
-more expense
-requires you to run a modified class
-the purpose of coil overs is to allow easy track accessible changes and adjustments which no one does anyways...
-etc

Please don't take this personal.. I'm just ranting... but there are lots of pros and cons for the coil overs and this is one of those things that is not necessary.. or not a good priority until you have lots and lots of seat time.... The really fast 914 people locally, don't even go there.

brant

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 29 2004, 07:21 PM

Am I talking to my self here???

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 29 2004, 07:23 PM

You really want us to tell you where to go???

Posted by: brant Jan 30 2004, 10:22 AM

no... not just talking to yourself
brant

Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2004, 03:33 PM

The main purpose of this upgrade is to fix a poor design.

The rear of the torsion bar needs to have movement in order for the adjuster to not bind...

This creates a wiggle issue that can be eliminated by a simple coil over kit.

The kit does not need to cost as much as they do...they are just heim joints and some brackets...

seems like it could be designed for less than what I see the prices out there ....

I do not like the fit of the adjusters....I have tried about eight different adjuster ends and two bars and they are all loose.
And this is not for an autocross car, just a nice clean overpowered scary converted street car...

Just want a tight front end with ZERO play, like a new car has....

R

Posted by: Mueller Jan 30 2004, 05:11 PM

once you have the car on the ground and loaded, nothing should be loose...you've got other issues if you have play in your suspension

you do not need a Hiem joint front end for coil-overs, RSR style front housing are all you need.....Paragon sells a kit to convert the front struts to coil-overs, very similar in design to the rear coil-over kit

Posted by: brant Jan 30 2004, 05:13 PM

Rich,

are you experiencing wiggle on the actual adjuster cap which fits on the splined bar.....

or is it the adjuster screw (which screws into the cap).

b

Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2004, 08:32 PM

The adjuster cap that the screw fits into rely's upon fitting inside the crossmember bar in a cylindrical portion on the end of the bar....the other side is where the bushing/bearing goes in...

Jack up the car, get the weight of (like when in a hard turn) and shake it....you too have the same wiggle...it gets transfered to the steering wheel...

Poor design.

If you tighten up that area, like welding the inside of that cylindrical portion, it will get to tight and not move like it needs to...
Too loose and you get wiggle...
Try measuring a few of the torsion bar end caps...the outer diameter....quite a bit of difference.

The are cast, so no welding to build them up.

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 30 2004, 08:50 PM

Basically the only reasons to convert to coilovers is if the biggest t-bar doesn't give you enough spring rate or if you need to be able to change springs fast/easily
Neither apply to a streetcar IMHO
If you go to a coilover setup up front, you need to reinforce the top mounts on the chassis

There should be no play in a t-bar type front suspension. If there is, some parts are worn

I don't think the 935-style front a-arms are intented for street use either and would be overkill as well

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 30 2004, 09:02 PM

The adjustercap doesn't contact the x-member anywhere, so it's outer diameter isn't important
The only way you could have play on the a-arms is if your bushings are worn or if the front mount isn't bolted up correctly (it has to be slid back as far and tight as possible )

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: r_towle Jan 30 2004, 09:07 PM

I beg to differ...
The adjuster cap holds the weight of the front of the car on not only on the adjuster screw, but on the side of the cap.
Bushings are fine, but they only ensure the A-arm is solid and secure,,,really the weight sits on the adjuster cap.

Posted by: Mueller Jan 30 2004, 09:23 PM

only if you get the car airborne so that no weight is on the front suspension will the caps be "loose", even then, they are not going to be causing any trouble....

i was going to make special plastic inserts that fit between the torsion bar and the inside of the a-arm to limit the movement you are describing, but was told it'll make no real world differance

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 30 2004, 09:26 PM

Ok... lets approach this differently
If you leave the adjuster cap off completely, do you have any play on the a-arm?
How is the play? Front to rear, left to right?

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: Mueller Jan 30 2004, 09:37 PM

I'm betting no....which still means he is worring about nothing IMHO

I got to get back out to the shop, I still need to finish my display for Dunkels

Posted by: Jeroen Jan 30 2004, 09:42 PM

Have fun at Dunkle's...
Say hi to Brad, Rich, Andy and who ever shows up there

cheers,

Jeroen

Posted by: r_towle Jan 31 2004, 10:34 AM

ok,
I will describe my problem....

New cleaned and lubed 23mm torsion bars (last year)
New bushings, second set with grease fittings etc...
Old tie rods, but they are fine, nothing is loose there.
Weltmeister sway bar (this might be the problem....dont know)

When I turn really hard into a corner in autocross or on the road, the inner front tire lifts, not off the ground, but there is no weight there (yes 180lbs rear springs)
It clunks...
I jacked up the front of the car to simulate the condition, the only thing that is loose is the adjuster cap....

There is no play on the bushings.
No play in the ball joint or bearings.
No play in the steering rack or tie rods.

Again 23mm front bars, 180 lb rear springs
Bilsteins all around
Weltmeister sway bar up front

Wheres the clunk????

Rich

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 31 2004, 11:19 AM

If you lift the inside tire off the ground, the cap may indeed go "clunk". No harm, no foul.

On all of my AX passes around our lumpy venue, there is more crashin' & bangin' going on than one can imagine. I have no rubber (or polywhatever) in my suspenders.

As to the pictured A arms. Nice, but a outmoded/cheep design taken to extreme. MacPherson strut suspensions are.....sucky.....I know, it's what we got. I shouda started out with a Lotus 7 (or copy).

BTW, here's a pic (rerun) when I was using 180lb
Welt springs (progressive PsOS). & 21 mm T bars. It don't do that with 200 lb nonpro. springs. I'm still going to 225 or 250s, tho. Too much push.


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Posted by: J P Stein Jan 31 2004, 11:30 AM

Here's a bump.


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Posted by: Bruce Allert Feb 1 2004, 12:23 AM

Man! that's good camera work! Oh! and great drivin' too

..........b

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 1 2004, 12:34 AM

You'll have to get more shots this next season.
I'm wearing out my welcome with these reruns.

Since you couldn't make it to the AX meating( a freudian slip...all that sausage pizza, I guess...urp) today, we made you responsible for everything.....and photography, of course.

Posted by: Bruce Allert Feb 1 2004, 01:10 AM

Ahhh, good! the one that doesn't attend gets it all, I know how that goes (and I was always the last one picked for any team sports too)
We had garlic chicken pizza tonight. Gotta find someone to breath on

.........b