Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
914World.com _ 914World Garage _ T4 Oil Pump Comparisons
Posted by: McMark Nov 8 2008, 09:33 PM
I was looking for information on the stock T4 oil pump and couldn't find anything helpful. So I disassembled on of mine today and took some comparison pictures.
Here is the stock pump:
Once you remove the four nuts on the back, you can use a 6mm x 1.0 bolt and a U shaped piece of steel to pull the guts:
In order to 'blueprint' this oil pump you would need to pull the four little studs, a small alignment ring, and then carefully mill the inside face of the body, thereby tightening the clearances between the flat sides of the gears and the body.
Schadek and Melling pumps are much easier to 'blueprint' because you can simply deck the face using something as simple as sandpaper on glass.
The stock pump does match up with the oiling bores in the case much better. Here is a stock pump. If you look closely, you can see the small variance: the case hole is slightly smaller than the pump hole.
Here is the Schadek pump body. Notice the much larger variance.
Finally, here are the numbers.
Body Height Measurement:
Total Height Measurement:
And finally, I'm not making any recommendations or judgements about anything here. This thread is simply about posting facts. 
Posted by: DNHunt Nov 9 2008, 07:43 AM
You can't full flow the stock pump as far as I can see.
Dave
Posted by: davep Nov 9 2008, 08:05 AM
Exactly how do you define "full flow"?
Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 9 2008, 08:21 AM
Why would you want too.
Normally you full flow so you can run a bigger oil cooler. In order to runn a cooler you need more flow, and a stock pump will have trouble with that.
I port matched my oil pump that came with my kit.
Full flow ports oil out the front of the pump and enters the engine again at the main oil galley that you have to tap into.
Posted by: DNHunt Nov 9 2008, 08:37 AM
All of the oil goes through the filter. With the stock oil system when the pressure gets very high the bypass valve in the oil filter mount lets unfiltered oil into the main oil passage. A type 1 pump allows an assortment of covers and it is possible to plumb to a remote filter and block off the stock filter. In this system all of the oil must be filtered.
The drawbacks are external lines, full oil pressure to the filter and another level of complication.
To be honest, it is possible to do full flow with the stock pump by tapping the galley plug between the oil pump and the oil filter mount and then blocking off the oil filter plumbing, but then the same issues that Mark raised with the stock pump are faced. It is tougher to blue print.
The Type 1 pump is not without problems. In addition to what Mark raised, to plumb it for full flow the outlet must be plugged. Cam bolts need to have the heads relieved or the pump housing needs to be relieved. If these procedures are not done, the cam gear bolts hit the pump. If it is an engine rebuild the best solution is to relieve the cam bolts. The pumps I have seen need to have the shaft that drives the pump off of the cam pressed into the gear a little farther, so there are plenty of places to screw up.
Posted by: type47 Nov 9 2008, 09:26 AM
where is/what is/ expand discussion on "small alignment ring". thanks
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 9 2008, 10:47 AM
Unless you purchase the modified TI pump from The Type 4 Store. We mod the pumps before shipping and offer full flow and non full flow versions.
The stock TIV pump can lead to engine failure when the lower pin inside the pump works loose and contacts the camshaft gear. This is the major reason why I haven't used a single stock oil pump in over 15 years.
Posted by: DNHunt Nov 9 2008, 12:41 PM
Yep,
I'm aware of that. Just pointing out there is a potential problem.
Dave
Posted by: Joe Ricard Nov 9 2008, 02:51 PM
Friends don't let friends drive stock.
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 9 2008, 06:17 PM
A full flow cover and modified engine mount.
Posted by: McMark Nov 9 2008, 08:48 PM
Yeah, the stocker is not the choice to make for a full flow setup. But not every engine needs to be full flow.
Posted by: Jake Raby Nov 9 2008, 08:53 PM
Lose an engine with 250 miles on it because of a stock pump and you'll never use one again. the only stupid mistake is the one you make twice.
Posted by: McMark Nov 9 2008, 09:02 PM
where is/what is/ expand discussion on "small alignment ring". thanks
Attached image(s)
Posted by: jhadler Nov 17 2008, 12:52 PM
So...
Does anyone sell a full flow modified motor mount??? I see that Jake has a complete kit (including oil filter relocation), and that seems to be the route to go. But I didn't find a motor mount...
-Josh2
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 18 2008, 05:24 AM
-Josh2
I did sell them (as in above pic), look on the last page of the vendors section, but it takes 2hrs each mount and I'd want almost double the money to even bother with one now.
Posted by: stevegm Sep 30 2016, 06:55 AM
Before I order an oil pump, I just wanted to bounce this off of the collective wisdom of the world. It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?
I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.
Here is the link to the pump I am planning to order - http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Schadek-26mm-Oil-Pump-8mm-Pump-Studs-111-115-107-p/111-115-107akhd-26mm-t4.htm
Posted by: SirAndy Sep 30 2016, 11:21 AM
Holy thread necro! 8 years ...
Posted by: Valy Sep 30 2016, 04:18 PM
I recommend getting an aluminum body type 1 pump, unless your type iv pump is good.
Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 1 2016, 10:14 AM
It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?
I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.
[/url]
Yes, use the 26mm, the 30mm is too big without a pressure relief cover on smaller engines. The Melling pump for VW is a turd.
For quite a while now I've seen the pumps a bit spotty on the OD tolerances. I O-ring my pumps, but it is a PITA. I have experimented with a light coat of threebond on the rear edge of the case hole only, other side of the in/out case galleys, with no ill effects. If you try this don get any threebond in those galley holes.
Posted by: stevegm Oct 17 2016, 11:53 AM
It seems that the consensus is that the Schadek 26mm Oil Pump, Modified for Type 4 Engines, is the best option for a type IV engine. Is this right?
I have a 2056cc engine, and am not planning to run an external oil cooler, or anything.
[/url]
Yes, use the 26mm, the 30mm is too big without a pressure relief cover on smaller engines. The Melling pump for VW is a turd.
For quite a while now I've seen the pumps a bit spotty on the OD tolerances. I O-ring my pumps, but it is a PITA. I have experimented with a light coat of threebond on the rear edge of the case hole only, other side of the in/out case galleys, with no ill effects. If you try this don get any threebond in those galley holes.
So it seems that the 26mm is no longer available. The type IV store has the 30mm, which is a type I pump that has been modified for use on a type iv. My engine is a 2.0 liter with a stock came, and larger pistons (2056cc). What is the issue with the 300mm being too larger? Other suggestions?
Posted by: McMark Oct 17 2016, 12:00 PM
I can still get the 26mm. You gonna modify it yourself?
Posted by: stevegm Oct 17 2016, 12:38 PM
I can still get the 26mm. You gonna modify it yourself?
I don't know what to modify. :-) And the engine is already together. So, I can't clearance it. Is it just the shaft that goes into the cam that needs to be rounded a bit (like a "D").
Posted by: KeithVonLaws Oct 18 2016, 02:17 AM
Anyone know about these Claudes 26mm pumps?
http://www.themetricnut.co.nz/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1036
Posted by: Mark Henry Oct 18 2016, 07:30 AM
Anyone know about these Claudes 26mm pumps?
http://www.themetricnut.co.nz/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1036
Hell of a lot of coin for a cheap pump, you realize that site is out of New Zealand right?
Posted by: KeithVonLaws Oct 18 2016, 08:56 PM
Yes Ive seen these pumps for sale before and it is a lot. I have a 2.4 T4 that has a cast Iron pump. On the Front it Says Made in the USA and 8mm. I am Assuming it is a Melling pump... I want to upgrade but this one has been on the engine for a while and works. Im just doing it as preventative maintenance while the engine is out.
Thanks for any Advice
Posted by: Shivers Feb 12 2021, 09:37 AM
Just when you thought this thread was dead. Putting in a front oil cooler. Need a pump that will move enough oil. Been reading on the internet, and here, but I'd like to hear what the best fix is today. It's only a 2.0 L but other than the rods and oil pump, nothing else is stock . Can you help a brother out with a pump I can trust? Thanks
Posted by: Highland Feb 12 2021, 10:48 AM
So perhaps off topic, apologies; but is there any experience with these pumps sold on theSamba?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2450773
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 12 2021, 11:05 AM
A full flow cover and modified engine mount.
I will make the full flow engine mount (yellow part in pic) if anyone needs one, but a core is required.
Posted by: Montreal914 Feb 12 2021, 11:23 AM
I will be using a 30mm Shadek pump and a Gene Berg full flow cover with pressure relief (Mark Henry's recommendation 
).
I modified both engine mounts as minimally as possible, but I recommend Mark Henry's mounts.
This will lead to my remote filter and thermostat sub assembly that will be bolted to the lower firewall on the driver side, then to the front cooler.
Posted by: peteyd Feb 12 2021, 11:47 AM
So perhaps off topic, apologies; but is there any experience with these pumps sold on theSamba?
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2450773
I was also curious about this pump. Apparently they have only been on the market for about 6 months.
Has anyone spoken to the guy reselling? I believe his name is Tabari Andrade. Is he a member on here.
Pete
Posted by: 914Sixer Feb 12 2021, 02:21 PM
Tabari did my rockers. He also sells 10mm German Swivel Foot rocker and solid spacers. Advertises over on theSamba.com
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 12 2021, 03:25 PM
$330 is a lot of bones for a pump
I'd do the 30mm pump and Gene Berg pressure relief cover as in montreal914's 1st pic. You don't have to remote filter this set-up, you could just plug the cover (and not plug the pump return side) and the pressure relief feature still works.
My 2.6 liter T4 powered bug has a 26mm and a regular steel FF cover.
The reason I don't like aluminum covers is because the pump gears try to drill through them. You can really see this on old T1 covers, but I see this in stock T4 pumps as well.
Posted by: Shivers Feb 12 2021, 04:47 PM
Thank you.
Posted by: barefoot Feb 12 2021, 06:14 PM
I'm using the CB Maxi Pump 914/type 4
I did little port matching but wasn't much. I clearanced the cam bolts very slightly to insure working clearance.
For my 2056. oil pressure stays about 50 at cruising speed and was inexpensive.
Retains stock oil cooler. Oil temps stay below half gauge on combo oil temp gauge outside temperatures in the 80's.
I haven't seen the need to run an aux oil cooler even though i've got everything needed to hook it up.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1829.htm
Posted by: Shivers Feb 12 2021, 08:03 PM
I'm in the Sonoran Desert, gets really hot here. A couple weeks ago it was 90 here. Summer can be brutal. Thanks everyone, I have a plan
Mark- " I'd do the 30mm pump and Gene Berg pressure relief cover as in monI'd do the 30mm pump and Gene Berg pressure relief cover as in montreal914's treal914's "
Posted by: 930cabman Jul 14 2021, 12:16 PM
I'm using the CB Maxi Pump 914/type 4
I did little port matching but wasn't much. I clearanced the cam bolts very slightly to insure working clearance.
For my 2056. oil pressure stays about 50 at cruising speed and was inexpensive.
Retains stock oil cooler. Oil temps stay below half gauge on combo oil temp gauge outside temperatures in the 80's.
I haven't seen the need to run an aux oil cooler even though i've got everything needed to hook it up.
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1829.htm
This all sounds good, I will be going with the CB 1829 pump
BTW, what did you use for pistons? heads? FI or carbs?
Thanks
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)