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Posted by: davep Feb 15 2004, 09:03 AM

Okay, so conventional wisdom says the last 914 made was 4762904075.
What do we make of this?


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Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 09:29 AM

Poor record keeping by Porsche thats what. Glad this got posted as I saw it listed in the Members VIN file and couldn't believe my eyes.
I do know that Porsche put together as many of these cars as they could, stockpiling the bodies before VW/Karmann killed the line.
I would like to know more about the car, what options it came with? The other "last 914's" we know of (4063 & 4073) all seems to have everything on them.

Geoff

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 15 2004, 09:34 AM

That's coool! Is that the highest number anyone has seen?

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 09:47 AM

Yes, the previous was the 4073 car which had pics posted a few months ago. So now mine is the 3rd newest car and slipping fast!

The story I heard from my friend who worked for Porsche at that time (73-79) was that after Porsche anounced that the 914 line was killed interest in the cars soared. Dealers couldn't keep the cars in stock and were clamoring for more cars to sell and loaded with options so the sticker prices were high(and Dealer profits). I did test drive a 76 914 and I do remember there was only one or two on the lot. Took some talking for me to get to test drive it too. ( it was a orange car too,with that goofy pinstripping like mine had, go figure!)

Geoff

Posted by: boxstr Feb 15 2004, 10:44 AM

Curious I never noticed but all 1976 914s have a 00/75 birthdate??Is this correct.
CCLINGENEAOLOGY

Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 15 2004, 11:50 AM

They started building the next model year in August of the previous year, I believe. So it's not surprising that a "short" production year would only be during those first four months.

One local guy claims that he used to own a 1976 1.8, with a build date of 01/76.

--DD

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 12:27 PM

Yes, all 76 cars where built and have a 75 year VIN. All the last cars were built in 12/75 so they built 4000 cars in 4 months and then shipped them out over the year.

DD, try to get a pic of these 76 1.8 VIN. That way we will all see or not see his claim.

Geoff

Posted by: ! Feb 15 2004, 12:40 PM

Well since Porsche did not actually have a whole lot of input past 1972 when the last 914/6 was delivered...one would think that "Porsche" didn't have a LOT to do with a 914/4 that was wholly manufactured by Karmann and VW.....so.....the better records would be from VW......wouldn't ya think?

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 12:49 PM

Nope as Porsche bought out VW from the joint enterprise in 1974 to concentrate on the water cooled cars. So really 74 and later cars are "true" Porsches although the cars were assembled by Karmann and the engines were put together by VW on their engine line.
Porsche even considered moving the assembly of the 914 to another plant. Didn't work out as costs would have been too much.
Porsche went on to have the 924 assembled by the Audi plant, but thats another story.


Geoff

Posted by: Dave_Darling Feb 15 2004, 12:50 PM

You mean a 75 build date sticker, right? They do have "476" VINs, indicating a 76 model year.



The key in my note is, "used to own". He doesn't own it any longer. I may try to pester him to remember who he sold the car to...

--DD

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 12:53 PM

You know what I mean...the damn sticker in the pic.

some people are sooo anal.....

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 15 2004, 12:58 PM

I'm skeptical...ALL 76 cars are 2.0L...so why would his be different unless it was non-original? This is heresay until we see proof... <_<

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 01:01 PM

Yeah, and we was told for all these years that the last car was 4075. Soo, it remains to be seen.
There is also supposed to be this green and white car that we have no pics of too! Although, I have seen one of those. I have never seen a actual 76 build sticker.

Geoff

Posted by: ! Feb 15 2004, 01:42 PM

Really? News to me....but then I never was interested in 914s that were 75 and up anyways....

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 15 2004, 01:55 PM

nope, they were neither Porsche nor VW, they were VW-Porsche which was it's own separate company!

and the VW-half was bought out by porsche after the fallout with VW, which means technically, they all became "real" porsches after that

Andy

Posted by: ! Feb 15 2004, 01:57 PM

And what happened to the Porsche Audi dealers here in the US?

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 15 2004, 02:37 PM

interesting that you mention that, Porsche of North America was disolved and Porsche/Audi was actually owned and run by VW !
they used it to push their audi 100 under the porsche umbrella ...

just read all about it last night
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 15 2004, 03:50 PM

actually, i also have seen the numbers

476 29 00001 - 476 29 04100

as the VIN range for '76 ...

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 05:15 PM

I have seen it both ways 4075 and 4100. I heard they put together as many cars as they could using up all the leftover body parts.
What does the German bible say to this?


Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 15 2004, 06:57 PM

the book says:

"The production was discontinued in the Spring of 1976"

Posted by: redshift Feb 15 2004, 08:41 PM

I've seen one too... my 4th 914. I painted it blue.

Look in Atlanta, there are rusted hulks waiting to be found.


M

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 15 2004, 11:48 PM

Ok Miles, do you have any pic of your 4th 914 before you painted it blue?


Geoff

Posted by: jkp2240 Feb 16 2004, 07:03 AM

Hi guys, I am John the one with the car in question! Thanks for your help getting the pics on here as I did try. Here is what I know, I am in IL and purchased the car from a guy who brought it back from CA, had the old plates, said it was there from the start. The engine, 2.0 was tired so I decided to restore it to original. Options it had were D.P.D. A/C, gauges console was missing, tinted glass, appearance group and it has 911 front suspension with Fuchs all around. The engine number I think is GC003510, it is now dissasembled in a box in the garage.
Glad to share with you, any other questions please ask!

Posted by: davep Feb 16 2004, 08:16 AM

John, Thanks for coming forward.
I would like the owners of the last few 76 cars to post more info on their cars. I thought there was a "silver series" of cars built with body colored bumpers at the end of the run. Anyone have any idea what serial range they fall within? Where has anyone seen a listing showing the end of the 76 production to be 4100? None of my sources shows this. Even the Porsche website shows 4075. And what does PCNA and their cardex say??? Surely the data is there, why can't they come clean on this?

DaveP

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 09:23 AM

I bought mine, 4063, in 95 off a car lot for cheap. It came with all the option packages plus some black and gold funky pinstripping. I have added the 5 bolts and since installed the early bumpers. I tossed the orginal motor which was in sad shape with carbs and installed a rebuilt 74 Djet GA engine.

I have never seen a silver series 914, but maybe they are rarer than the LE's.

Geoff


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Posted by: jkp2240 Feb 16 2004, 09:31 AM

I have since stopped the restoration, as I have way more into her as she is worth. Do you guys feel that this car may be worth more being one of the last? if so, I may finish it at some point. My first one was a 74, and I loved it but having a 911 cab, and no space to keep it I sold it.
John P

Posted by: Jeff Bowlsby Feb 16 2004, 09:33 AM

There seems to have been a 'SilberSeries', but I think it was a 1975 Euro market only offering. SirAndy can help us out...there is info on page 100 of The Buch, but I havent translated it yet.

There is also a 1975 USA ad that shows silver cars with black-out trim if I recall correctly. Oh and I remember a recent ad for a car on German ebay that claimed to be a SilberSeries car. It was silver.

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 09:39 AM

I think all of us have way more into these cars than they are worth!
Selling price depends on condition and who is buying of course. I think the last cars are worth more than the early 76 and 75 cars cuz they came with all the options like a 73 2.0l. Most people don't like the crappy smog stuff, bad heat exchangers, and bigger bumpers. They do like all the options as it makes the cars alittle more finished than the basic cars.


Rust is the biggest problem with these cars so a tub thats rust free is alwasy worth more than a car with rust even if it looks beautiful on the outside.

So whats the condition of the car?

Posted by: jkp2240 Feb 16 2004, 09:46 AM

Overall the car was good, minimal rust, that is why I decided to restore it. I pulled drive train, and steamed cleaned bottom, blowing holes in the pan. Had new complete floor installed. The right rear by battery only had a little rust, and a few small rust spots here and there. The body had 8 coats of paint, all stripped to bare metal. Right side had a little bondo, left was good. I am the one trying to sell tub on ebay, but hopefully you guys can convince me to finish it. I have the engine all re-machined and ready to assemble. Interior is in great shape.
John P

Posted by: seanery Feb 16 2004, 10:01 AM

Seriously, if you like you car, do what you like to make it nice. Remember, the 356 cars were incredibly devalued until when, the mid 80's or so. Our cars are next. I swear it!

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 10:11 AM

Why not finish it? Sounds like you have done the hard work already.

Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 05:04 PM

the "Silberserie" (silver series) was only sold in germany!

they were all late '75 models (100 made), painted in
silver metallic (hence the name), they came with:

- 2.0L engine
- tinted glass all around
- velour carpet
- mahle alloy wheels
- front and rear sway bars

according to the book, they were so late in the production that some had slightly different equipment than others because the factory was running out of parts.

Posted by: Gint Feb 16 2004, 05:05 PM

jkp2240, Welcome to the club!

Again, welcome to the club! As Geoff said, it sounds liek the hard work is done already.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 05:06 PM

here:

http://www.porschedecals.com/history914w.htm

check out the other 914 info pages on that site, they have some otherwise hard to find info:

http://www.porschedecals.com/914.htm

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 05:11 PM

you might also find this interesting (from "the book"):

- in the beginning the sail-panel and targa top vinyl was only optional
(for additional $$$) and cars came with the targa bar painted in body color
by default. also, the bumpers were painted in body color, chrome bumpers
were only available as a option package as well.
pictures of the early standard style can be seen on page 62.

- the handbrake was moved to the left of the drivers seat because the car
was planned to be a real 3 seater!
ONE was actually build with 3 seats, pic. is on page 28.

- the original plan was to just produce 4-cylinder cars with the
VW-411/412 type 4 engine and have the car sold by VW exclusively.
porsche then wanted to do a 6-cylinder version and market it as a
porsche, but VW denied that and they eventually reached a compromise,
which lead to the creation of the "VW-Porsche VG", with split
ownership by porsche and vw.

- the very first prototype that was driveable was a /4 (end of april '68)

- by the time the first /6 was running they already had 15 4-cylinder
cars on the test-track.

- the rubber bumper tops are actually "Polyurethan-Foam" (sp? in english?)
and were the very first ones out of this material EVER used on the exterior
of any automobile EVER!!! the manufacturer "Phoenix-Werke" gave them the
part numbers 1 and 2!

Posted by: TonyAKAVW Feb 16 2004, 05:21 PM

Does anyone have a picture of a Silberserie car? My new roller is silver and I want to keep it silver. The idea of blacked out trim and tinted windows on a silver car sounds interesting, but I'd like to see a picture.

-Tony

Posted by: McMark Feb 16 2004, 07:24 PM

The original manufacturer looks like they're still in business. Andy???

http://www.phoenix-werke.de/index1.html

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 07:42 PM

Why on that page is the engine serial numbers this?
GC 0002915-
GC 0006946
Which if I do the math is only GC 4031 engines. What did they do for the other cars if 4100 were built?
Is this German math?


Geoff

Posted by: echocanyons Feb 16 2004, 07:55 PM

What is the name of the book?

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 08:00 PM

nope. different company ...

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 08:02 PM

"the book" says:

1976:
EC (1.8L L-Jet)
GC (2.0L D-Jet)

soooooo, they DID make 1.8L for 76 !!!!!
unfortunately, the book doesn't mention how many of each ...

Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 08:03 PM

"Das grosse VW-Porsche Buch"

ISBN 3-89365-270-1

Posted by: echocanyons Feb 16 2004, 08:03 PM

thanks

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 08:06 PM

Let me guess how many EC 1.8L 76 cars were built....hmmm. I know 69!!!!!


Geoff

Posted by: davep Feb 16 2004, 09:26 PM

I find it very hard to believe that there were only 2915 2.0L GC engine cars in 1975 model year.

So the SilberSeries was 1975 model year, not 1976 model year? And they were already running out of parts then?

DaveP

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 09:32 PM

What does the "Book" say when VW told Porsche they were pulling the plug on the 914 production line.
My friend says he was at that meeting in Germany when that happened but doesn't remember when it was. Lots of upset people at that meeting he said.

I find it hard to believe that they were running out of parts too.....Porsche had no plans to stop production until VW pulled the plug.

Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 10:53 PM

all '76 cars were build in '75.
the book says the "Silber Serie" was made in late '75,
taking porsche's mid-year model year switch, they could have been (technically) '76 cars.

anywho, what i'm trying to say here, just because all cars sold as '76 went to the US, that doesn't mean that the late '75 silver series wasn't build at the same time as those US '76 ....

the turnaround from building to selling obviously could have been much shorter for cars sold in germany.

confused?
Andy

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 11:00 PM

the book states a former employee:

"We used anything that we still had in stock"

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 11:01 PM

Be interesting to see what kind of VIN a SilverSeries had and if 100 were built they are pretty rare.

Geoff

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 11:05 PM

As I understood it, Porsche knew sometime in 75 the 914 was killed. I also have heard they ran out of body stampings not the rest of the car parts. Hmm, although that might explain the weird rear alignment shims I have. They are cut wedges not the usual shims. Other than that, my 76 looked like all other cars of that time, loaded with the options.

Geoff

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 16 2004, 11:11 PM

they were already thinking about the 914 successor in 1972.

from the book:

========================
in 1972 the "VW-Porsche VG" started planning the 924, but instead of using as many VW parts as possible (like with the 914) this time the plan was to use as much Audi parts as possible.

the VW executives knew at the time that their contract with posche would most likely not be renewed (by the end of '75) but they still contracted porsche to design the 924.
the plan was to market the car as a "Audi Coupe" ...

then the leading force behid the 924, Mr. Leiding died in '74 and his successor did not approve of the Audi umbrella for the 924. the project was stopped.

after finally reaching a compromise in '75, the 924 was shown to the press in 1975 as the "Porsche 924" at a car-show in France.

the production of the 914 was stopped and the focus was shifted onto selling the 924 ...
========================

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 16 2004, 11:26 PM

There is way more to the 924 story.....I have read a account by that German 914 posted (cant remember his name but DD would). He told the story of the 924 on the Potomac Porsche club site. Basically, the Audi factory(was where the NSU's were built) had the car already to go for VW but then VW pulled out. The factory came to Porsche and (since Porsche had done most of the engineering) offered the car to them to sell under their name so the car could be built and the factory could keep on going.
By the way, my friend drove the first 924 around the US to all the Dealers to show it. It was a yellow car/black interior without ac, and he did this in the summer. He reported back to Porsche that they had to get AC in their cars or it would never sell! Too hot with that big back window! I have seen the pics he has of it and him.

Geoff

Posted by: davep Feb 17 2004, 10:50 AM

To me, the 912E was the follow-on car to the 914. It seemed to be a half-hearted measure because it was only for the NA market for one year, and they did put considerable effort into the unique parts to make the car happen. Sure it was a type 4 2.0L, but it had unique fuel injection, exhaust, and sheet metal. The transmission was also unique. I don't know how they justified the cost of development over such a short production run. It seems to be a stop-gap measure to bridge the 914 and the 924 using available parts. Certainly the 924 was a major shift in design: front engine and water cooled. Porsche was probably reluctant to bet the business on the 924 considering the conservatism of the Porsche owners. ( they didn't make a REAL Porsche after the 356). Yeah, right.

DaveP

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 17 2004, 08:34 PM

Here DaveP is my vin tag


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Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 17 2004, 08:35 PM

vin


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Posted by: Andyrew Feb 25 2004, 12:58 AM

Ya, ya, old topic..

But here's one on ebay...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2462756971&category=6430

Vin#4762904070

Super high priced..

Andrew

Posted by: Bleyseng Feb 25 2004, 09:01 AM

Hey Andyrew, Good find!
Looks like it didn't come with Fuchs, fogs,and center console. Thats a rust bucket for sure with rusted pans and rockers.

Geoff

Posted by: davep Feb 25 2004, 09:27 AM

I just asked him for some more information. Yeah, not loaded, unusual. I wonder what the reserve is?

DaveP