I recently aquired a '73 with a rebuilt but never run 2.0. It has the usual (fixable) rust issues, but otherwise is complete and in fairly good shape. I'm building the car mainly for "fun", but ultimately would like to make a buck or two on it.
OK, here's the situation...
My original intention was to do a V8 conversion on it with a Rover 3.5 V8. I've always thought this was a perfect match for the car, compact, all-aluminum, lightweight, easy 200hp, avaialble parts... And to top it off, resale values for well done V8's look to be very good. On the down side, it ain't very original. Btw, I've got the 3.5 short block sitting here.
On the other hand, I like the 2.0 in that it keeps more of the originality of the car for the purist. and, with the rising values of these cars and their declining numbers, I believe originality will become more of a factor in resale value. I would plan on doing some engine work to bring it into the 120HP range just for kicks.
What to do? What to do?
it is not about what you should do - it is about what you want.
there is little profit margin in the resale of a restored 914
me - i would have the rust fixed - and drop a 350 sbc in that bitch using all renegade hybrids conversion parts.
lets see some pics if the rust
jim
If you want some cheap thrills, go with the v8. If I had to do it all over again, I would build the exact same car.
Mark
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2041932740057582025kkwWZZ
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http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2483380710057582025fQSHTV
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2643126480057582025ohkOZU
For me that decision is always based on what you want from the car. These cars are already 30 years old, so they're hobby cars, not daily drivers. I like to drive mine, so modifications to make it faster and funner make sense, while at the far other end of the scale there are people who enjoy being in the garage polishing and keeping the mileage down. Theirs will always be worth more at resale than mine, but mine will be more fun the whole time that I own it.
If yours has rust issues it's already not a Barrett Jackson car, so it seems like a natural candidate for the "more fun" end of the scale. I agree that since the 2.0 motor is new I think I'd be inclined to just use that motor, fix the rest, then drive it for a while. A year from now you'll know your car better and can decide whether you want to do the Rover motor.
I like the aluminum V8 idea, but don't think you'll get more at resale. Do it for the fun of it, if that's what you want. Then if you can profit, great, but don't count on it. One thought that might help is that people can argue about anything, but most everyone will agree that more horsepower is more fun!
Does the pot need stirring?
OK
If (perish the thought) I was to consider putting a V8 in a 914, the Buick/Rover would be the lump. The SBC is a hell of a motor...in a chebbie (or early Ford ).
If some one gave me one, I'd part it out. A 600lb lump behind your head in a 914 screws up a pretty good little car.
seems like we have a concensus - small block chevy - is the way to go : ))
note - that stock trans will work - it will wind high rpms on the highway - at 65mph, around 3000 or so depending on your tire size. but you will soon accept this as perfectly normal : ))
as always - rebuild suspension and brakes first.
the nice thing about a porsche 6 is you can run 14" wheels : ))
Hey Jim how many rpm can your 8 handle ?
Can't says's I have, but I've seen em' run at AX......& get smoked by a wheezing 1.7L (actually, the 1.7L runs pretty good)......all 80hp worth.
If you're a cruiser they're not a horrible thing but an early Ford is better.
2008 the year to V8
I have had 5 v8 914s. All of them were fun and fast cars. The first one was for autocross, not a good idea, SBC 307.
Number 2 was SBC 350, Number 3 a project 350, Number 4 a really awesome 417 HP 350 built 76 with Brembo front brakes, now belongs to Tony Imberato in Sequim Wa. and then the one I wish I didn't sell was JLO. Built 350, by Bill Wild at Renegade Hybrids. HUGE front and rear flares.
Yep why settle for less when you acn have a V8
CCLINV84MR
The thing on the SBC is you can go from mild to wild. The 305 in the car I got from Army Dude is mild at around 225hp so I am thinking what I want to do to build the engine. The 930 box can handle 650 HP but the tires will just spin even with LSD. There is very trick stuff for these engines. Done right it will spin up to 7,000 RPM. It is not much for me to pull 400HP out of this engine with very reliable power with not that much money spent compared to parts for my 2.5 - 6 Porsche.
You can get a rebuilt 350 HP SMC with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on Ebay with free shipping for $2,900.
A 914 with a SBC is a true hot rod with great handling. Add some bigger breaks and sway bar up front and you are good to go.
Is it great to have one in the garage plus a 914-6 plus a 914-4.
Save your money as you are fixing your car and the perfect 8 will come along that someone needs to sell that is almost done or is a situation car.
Bob
You can do it on the cheap, this is what my car looked like at the $4400.00 mark, then I kept on spending...
That is car, paint, engine, interior, everything.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1164678222057582025aWxHzO
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1164679740057582025UZocHJ
It was really fun for the money. I just kept upgrading. I had the trans re0geared, 5-lug, wheels, etc. The biggest expense ($3600.00) was having the 302 DZ built. The 302 is perfect for the car, revs high, low torque, kind of like a Porsche.
Mark
OK, making a buck or two was maybe a fantasy, just to rationalize the anticipated expense. So now I'm just down to the core issues of what'll give me the most bang for the buck.
That's got to be the V8. And sorry guys, it's going to be the Rover 3.5. My wife will be driving this and 200-225 is more than enough for her driving style. I built a Cobra replica with 440hp and if I need a kick in the a** I always know where I can go for it.
So stay tuned, I'll be posting before pics and progress pics shortly. Thanks guys.
Tom
I have a SBC and a 930 transmission, having said that to make a V8 car run nice it takes some money. I love my car, its an rush to drive but it took a lot of time to get it right.
I like the 215 V-8 concept sounds nice but is there enough R&D to make it work well. I know they came in GM cars, 1960 to 1963 and did come turbo charged in the F-85.
I say go for it do what you want , its nice if you have some experience in the auto area as well.
Enjoy your build and take your time....
actually, a slightly beefed up type 4 is all the car needs. its such a light car, so well balanced anyways, that even the 2.0 is fine.
and yes, the type 4 can be a great dd. Mine was for 2 years, till I got the Acura. Before that, my mom used it as a dd for quite a number of years, since 73 til mid 80's.
though, and 8 would be cool, since you have it. I am more of a purist though, its only original once. A 911 six or a subie also can make some good conversions. But since you have the 8, that should be good.
One thing I always read about after someone does a V8 conversion is they have overheating issues. I think it comes down to one thing, use a Renegade Hybrid radiator package. End of problem.
Good luck it will be a blast when you are done.
CCLINKEEPCOOL
I love the buick 215! I am partial though as that is what I have in my car. It sits at a robust 2190lbs fairly stock. 5-lug conversion, v8 & sideshift tranny swap aside. Still sitting right close to stock weight. I would guess mine is in the 220hp range. Car flat out flies while having very usable power. I rarely break the wheels loose. Well unless I'm trying too anyway. To practical to waste my tires & annoy people.
The range rover 215 is the same motor with some improvements I think. I would look into the water pump. The stock mechanical pump sticks out alot. I am going to go to a remote electric pump setup. That will cure my woes of losing most the firewall. I would definately recommend Renegades trannymount adapters. It moves the tranny back 1 1/2" while also dropping the rear 3/4". My tranny sits in the stock location & my engine comes into the cab right now. My plans are to add the tranny adapters, The remote electric water pump & get my firewall back in place. Supposed to be a winter project but looking more like spring now.
Any info I can help with on the 215 let me know. There are a few floating here on the world. All the v8 guys in general are very helpful. As are all 914 owners for the most part
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Jamie, Didn't you add the Renegade radiator also?
CCLINH20
[quote name='DBCooper' date='Dec 28 2008, 04:06 AM' post='1114681']
[quote name='J P Stein' post='1114507' date='Dec 27 2008, 11:02 AM']
Can't says's I have, but I've seen em' run at AX......& get smoked by a wheezing 1.7L (actually, the 1.7L runs pretty good)......all 80hp worth.
[/quote]
It always comes down to how the cars are set up... and driven... doesn't it JP? So how do you think that same wheezing 1.7 would do on a high speed course against a properly set up aluminum Buick/Rover V8 that, coincidentally, weighed pretty much the same as the 1.7?
[quote]
As I wrote above (you do read, eh), my problem with the V8 was not with the Rover but the SBC.....and it is with its weight and location.
it sure would be great if someone would build a street legal SBC conversion that could beat out 1.7/1.8/2.0's in AX's from time to time. gear ratio's and sticky hoosiers, along with proper suspension set up - should be able to yeild a faster car thru the cones??
MikeD (IIRC) has a E Mod 914 SBC that looks like it should be quick. He did the work required. Last I heard he was feeling kinda down on it. There are any number to problems to overcome. Classing in SCCA, no class (NPI) in PCA.
For fun AXing, sure, no reason. You put enuff tiar on a brick and it will corner.
From what I've seen, very few guys will put on the tire, suspension, & brakes that
such a beastie needs.
You won't be sorry for going V8, it all about fun to drive.... these cars are fun, and anyone you talk to will probably agree, more cylinders = more fun, period.
So, Just a note regarding the autocross comments earlier. The top autocross car when I built my v8 was a 2ltr special edition that cleaned everyone clock, including mine. Auto cross is fun, but he doesn't drive his car on the street. If sliding around parking lots and never hitting 4th gear, rarely 3rd is how you want to enjoy your car that's great. It is a fun way to enjoy a day with other gearheads, the 8 just won't be as competitive, especially since you will end up in a class like E Modified. But it's still tons of fun.
As far as veryday driveablility, the 8 has it hands down. They're easier to work on too, ever try to adjust the valves on a 4? I've had 5 teeners and the one I've kept is the one I converted to SBC 23 years ago. Go for it!
One suggestion, Renegade moves the tranny back slightly and relocates the water pump. I'd suggest not cutting the firewall! That structure is there for your protection. Moving the trans back just an inch and a half won't screw up the CVs or cause any problem with geometry.
Good luck, and have fun.
I would agree with Bruce. Make every effort to get the motor back as far as you can. Cutting the firewall would be the last thing I would want to do. A small access hole like you might have with a six cylinder is very acceptable.
As far as radiator cooling lines. The ones I have owned have all been the Gate's Green stripe hoses under the car. It runs along the bottom of the car and is held in place with large stainless U clamps. The lines are up high enough that you wont harm them, plus they are very thick. And if you need to access them they are right there, not hidden away inside the longs, which trust me will be a pain in the ass to get to.
Here is a great thread that you might want to take a look at. It will give you some idea as to what is involved in a V8 conversion.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=56498&hl=rod%20simpson&st=0
CCLINH20914
If you're gonna do an engine conversion, you might as well go balls out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-550-Maranello-Engine- V12_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a543Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a131
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Mark D.
P.S. I was lookin for an F430 engine, but couldn't find one.... it's a V8!
I always thought the long's were made to order for the cooling lines to keep them out of harms way. I'd like to use either aluminum or SS tubing as long as I can locate the clamps where I can get at them, but then again if I use straight hose - no clamps to worry about. Hmmmm.
Boxstr, thanks for the link - I've got it bookmarked.
Hope to have some pics up tonight to start my build thread.
Tom
Overjoyed, big guy. Didn't matter a bit until you asked if I could read.
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