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Posted by: Zeke Jan 10 2009, 04:18 PM

I've always thought that the best way to begin a project is to ask those who have been there before.

I have a 914 here and some GT fenders to weld on. Being somewhat of a panel beater and welder, I'm going to use the typical methods, Clecos for mock up, panel clamps for alignment and a MIG welder to tack.

The only departure from what I've done in the past is that I'm going to butt weld the fenders using oxy/acetylene with a micro (or aircraft torch) and some ER70S-6 rod, which is very malleable post weld. I will dolly all the welds as I go before any grinding. If necessary, I will shrink as I go as well. From the best info I can find, this is how the factory did things like GT's and some of the 911 factory race cars.

I usually go over my welds with a light on the back side looking for pinholes and braze them. As further insurance, I use lead over the seem as needed to finish.

However, I know there are a couple of pitfalls to watch for and that's why I'm posting. I've seen some incredibly nice work here. I hope to be that best welds thread for 2009.

Posted by: Zeke Jan 10 2009, 04:50 PM

I just finished reading Root Werks (Dan) thread on his technique. (I do know how to use the search ) Thanks for a good write up. I'll keep that thread BM'd!

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 10 2009, 05:06 PM

ZEKE IS BACK!!

you poor misguided sumbitch.......

Posted by: Zeke Jan 10 2009, 05:22 PM

QUOTE(J P Stein @ Jan 10 2009, 03:06 PM)

ZEKE IS BACK!!

you poor misguided sumbitch.......

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 10 2009, 05:24 PM

QUOTE(Zeke @ Jan 10 2009, 03:22 PM)

...but, it's not my car....

Posted by: SirAndy Jan 10 2009, 05:58 PM

I have nothing useful to add to this thread, just wanted to say hi ...

Hi!
Andy

Posted by: r_towle Jan 10 2009, 06:16 PM

Hi Zeke,

To the poster...torch/hammer weld will certainly make your weld alot more workable...mig weld suck to hammer..they crack.

Torch creates alot more heat and you will need to be carful as you weld over the top of the flare..the top area will warp and deform if you go to fast.
One trick a hot rod guy showed me that works great is to have your 4 inch grinder all setup with a wire wheel and ready to go.
Weld a bit, then immediately pick up the grinder and wire brush the area you just welded to spread out the heat quickly and dissapate the heat...it works great.
I hate brass....it sucks under paint and tends to create all sorts of problems with modern paints...I have a nice small area to fix on my car due to brass...I would not use it, just stick with lead and allmetal.

Rich

Posted by: scotty b Jan 10 2009, 06:21 PM

You could do that wire brush, grab and juggle trick ( Remember Rich, he will have an open flame in his hand) or just keep your air hose by you with a blow chuck in it. Just thinking out loud. Not like I'd ever do that


BTW way torch do you have? We got a Meco a couple years ago, neat torch, REALLY light and tiny.

Posted by: r_towle Jan 10 2009, 06:29 PM

QUOTE(scotty b @ Jan 10 2009, 07:21 PM)

You could do that wire brush, grab and juggle trick ( Remember Rich, he will have an open flame in his hand) or just keep your air hose by you with a blow chuck in it. Just thinking out loud. Not like I'd ever do that


BTW way torch do you have? We got a Meco a couple years ago, neat torch, REALLY light and tiny.

Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 10 2009, 07:09 PM

Hey Mr. Speed, it's good to hear from you. I'll be following this very closely.

Posted by: Zeke Jan 10 2009, 07:20 PM

I have 2 Meco's. They are really nice. AFA having heat in hand, I will be using so little gas I can hang it on a stand with a hook while I do a wire wheel or dolly work.



Many years ago, I watched a fantastic craftsman gas weld top fuel dragster noses. He had the coolest thing I've ever seen, a flame reducer for when the torch was on the hook. Pick it up and it lit off again to his previous setting.

After lurking around the welding forums for awhile, I came to understand that Sears sold these. That means someone made them and they were available elsewhere, but I could never find out any more info. I have to think the aircraft welders of the WWII era had these.

Kinda like a trigger start plumber's torch, but it was always burning with a little flame. There's a roofing torch that does the same.

It's no secret I'm totally old school. Yet, I go faithfully to welding school at the local college because it's cheap, I can take in projects and I can use equipment I could never afford to buy.

When you grab the torch of several thousand dollar machine, it's just fun. No work, the computers inside are doing most of the work these days allowing for so so welders to do nice work.

(Who's Mister Speed?)

Posted by: KaptKaos Jan 10 2009, 09:05 PM

Zeke,

You have a PM.

Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 10 2009, 09:07 PM

Why Zeke Speed of course. Zeke being your first name. Mr. Speed.

Posted by: kconway Jan 10 2009, 09:22 PM

Here's the victim...


Zeke's done all the rust repair on this car for me including hell hole repair, marker light delete and pretty significant fender repair of a PO's shotty bondo job 1/4" thick. I've decided to do the GT flare install on this and complete repaint.

His services come very highly recommended.

Kev

Posted by: r_towle Jan 10 2009, 11:37 PM

QUOTE(Zeke @ Jan 10 2009, 08:20 PM)

I have 2 Meco's. They are really nice. AFA having heat in hand, I will be using so little gas I can hang it on a stand with a hook while I do a wire wheel or dolly work.



Many years ago, I watched a fantastic craftsman gas weld top fuel dragster noses. He had the coolest thing I've ever seen, a flame reducer for when the torch was on the hook. Pick it up and it lit off again to his previous setting.

After lurking around the welding forums for awhile, I came to understand that Sears sold these. That means someone made them and they were available elsewhere, but I could never find out any more info. I have to think the aircraft welders of the WWII era had these.

Kinda like a trigger start plumber's torch, but it was always burning with a little flame. There's a roofing torch that does the same.

It's no secret I'm totally old school. Yet, I go faithfully to welding school at the local college because it's cheap, I can take in projects and I can use equipment I could never afford to buy.

When you grab the torch of several thousand dollar machine, it's just fun. No work, the computers inside are doing most of the work these days allowing for so so welders to do nice work.

(Who's Mister Speed?)

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 11 2009, 12:17 AM

Hi Zeke!

I love gas welding. I grew up with a torch and arch welder in hand.

Here's a link for ya rich.

http://www.tinmantech.com/html/meco_midget_torch.php

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 11 2009, 01:14 AM

good pics here,
http://www.performanceforum.com/wesvann/914a/flare-diary/flare-diary.html

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 11 2009, 07:14 AM

lol, hi Milt!

Posted by: scotty b Jan 11 2009, 08:53 AM

Buy one Rich, It's a really nice setup. I found it a bit awkward due to the width of it, but you find the right way and get used to it. Get the higher end hoses too, it's werth it.

Posted by: PanelBilly Jan 11 2009, 09:34 AM

I would tack a rod between the long and the body panel right behind the door. When I cut the fenders out the metal in that area was unsupported and I had a difficult time deciding where it belonged. I think you may end up shifting it outward to better blend with the flare, but it would sure be nice to know where it was to start with.

I also wish I had checked the differences from side to side. While I was mounting the flares I started comparing left to right and making adjustments so they would be simular (note I didn't say perfect, I just couldn't do that), but I kept wondering how close they were to start with.

Also I'd done the job with the car togeather. I had everything off the car and couldn't mount a set of wheels in there to see if I wanted to modify anything. To date I haven't put wheeels on the car. I just figure I'll find wheels that fit the profile of the flare I ended up with.

Posted by: Zeke Jan 11 2009, 01:47 PM

Thanks much for all the replies and help. I think I have enough referrences in this thread. Just one thing, anyone have a GT flared car local to the greater Long Beach CA area? I'd really like to take a close look and maybe pull a soft cloth tape measure here and there.

I'll buy breakfast or whatever. BTW, this should be a metal flared car and a nice job.

Please send an email.

Posted by: Wes V Jan 11 2009, 05:50 PM

QUOTE(Zeke @ Jan 11 2009, 11:47 AM)

Posted by: dkjens Jan 11 2009, 10:21 PM

If you like a torch, and you have a little extra dough, how about trying out the Henrob 2000 - http://www.cut-like-plasma.com/
If you do try it, or if you have any experiance with it, I'd love to hear about results.

Posted by: charliew Jan 11 2009, 10:37 PM

I've seen the henrob demo and was impressed. The guy cut a very thin slot in 1/2 mild steel plate it seemed like a .030 gap, and then welded a beer can together. He then cut his name through 1/4 plate very fast. It heats in a very small area, he started a cut by putting the bright blue flame on the edge of the plate and as soon as it was molten he angled the torch down and started moving and making the cut. they are a little pricy.

I also have a stitch welder I bought 20 years ago but went to mig and never tried it.

I like the mention of bracing the quarter panel behind the door to keep it the correct distance before cutting the wheel opening out. I probably wouldn't have thought of that. And the idea of measuring the openings before I remove them. Also someone pointed out the fronts could be moved forward or rearward to clear bigger od or wider tires a little better. With the front flare in the stock location it gets close, I think it was the front of the opening. Of course that means the rockers will need to be changed.
Also using easy grind .023 wire. It is softer and more maleable than the 70 normal wire.

Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 12 2009, 09:26 AM

Man, now I kinda want a henrob.

That is just too freak'n cool.

Oh well. Like I have told many people in the past... it is good to want.

Zach

Posted by: Zeke Feb 23 2009, 02:25 PM

I'm gas welding these.

Tacked up with the MIG.



Slow going. Hammer and dolly each segment.



This is a Meco torch with a tee-tiny tip.



I will follow up with other comments as I straighten out the metal and finish it. I have some new tools coming.

Posted by: kconway Feb 23 2009, 10:26 PM

Milt,
Thanks for posting these, looks like it's coming along nicely.
Kevin

Posted by: charliew Feb 23 2009, 11:29 PM

You might also want to check out John Kelly's shrinking disk. It really works good on high spots and shrinking. You just bump the low spots up, then run the disk over it and a damp cloth and it will get level. I think his site is ghiaspecialties. He does wide body ghias. I think I found him on the samba.

Posted by: kconway Feb 23 2009, 11:38 PM

QUOTE(charliew @ Feb 23 2009, 09:29 PM)

Posted by: Zeke Feb 24 2009, 01:52 PM

Yep, I've been a John Kelly customer for a few years. John is a great guy and his DVD's are very informative.

Posted by: dinomium Feb 24 2009, 06:20 PM

QUOTE(Zeke @ Feb 24 2009, 11:52 AM)

Posted by: charliew Feb 26 2009, 10:56 PM

When I first got the disk I didn't think my sander was fast enough so I bought a hf 9000 rpm one but the only back up pad they had was 5000 rated so I got that one and started using it. About 30 minutes later it started coming apart and what a ride. I was holding on so tight I couldn't get off the switch and finally all the rubber slung off and it became manageable. I was using the grinder one and 1/2 handed, my left hand doesn't have any grip. I guess the rpm ratings do mean something.

Posted by: r_towle Feb 26 2009, 11:02 PM

I feel that ScottyB did the best write up on how to put them on not only fast, put very cost effective.

Rich

Posted by: sixnotfour Feb 26 2009, 11:10 PM

Posted by: Todd Enlund Feb 26 2009, 11:23 PM

QUOTE(r_towle @ Feb 26 2009, 09:02 PM)

Posted by: Bucci Feb 28 2009, 12:32 AM

QUOTE(Zeke @ Jan 11 2009, 11:47 AM)

Thanks much for all the replies and help. I think I have enough referrences in this thread. Just one thing, anyone have a GT flared car local to the greater Long Beach CA area? I'd really like to take a close look and maybe pull a soft cloth tape measure here and there.

I'll buy breakfast or whatever. BTW, this should be a metal flared car and a nice job.

Please send an email.

Posted by: MDG Feb 28 2009, 07:20 AM

Nice Marc!

love Irish Green on flared cars

Posted by: scotty b Feb 28 2009, 07:23 AM

QUOTE(MDG @ Feb 28 2009, 05:20 AM)

Nice Marc!

love Irish Green on flared cars