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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 917 balsa shift knob specs (now a progress thread)
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 16 2009, 09:38 AM
Does anyone have the specs for the 917 shift knobs? I am talking about the ones that were laminated wood.
I am looking for:
What wood was used in the lamination
What are the dimensions
How was it attached.
I know someone already makes these, and I could just buy one. However, I am interested in learning how to use a wood lathe and my grandfather is going to give me his and all his tooling for it. Instead of just turning eggs until I get the idea of what I am doing, I figured this would be a more useful project to start with.
Zach
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 16 2009, 09:59 AM
Hi Zach. We have one here in the showcase
Does anyone have the specs for the 917 shift knobs? I am talking about the ones that were laminated wood.
I am looking for:
What wood was used in the lamination
What are the dimensions
How was it attached.
I know someone already makes these, and I could just buy one. However, I am interested in learning how to use a wood lathe and my grandfather is going to give me his and all his tooling for it. Instead of just turning eggs until I get the idea of what I am doing, I figured this would be a more useful project to start with.
Zach
Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2009, 10:11 AM
Zach, post a picture.
It might be either rosewood or mahogany...gotta see it.
You can use either, both will gum up the tools.
First thing to learn with a lathe is how to hand sharpen the tools.
Its really important to learn this...
Rusty does pens..he can walk you through the sharpening process, or I can....dont use a machine, use oil stones, old school.
I have tried all the new fangled diamond stuff...oil is better for a razor like sharpness.
For the shape, you will have to take pretty precise measurements.
Quick and simple to do with a contour gauge, then trace that onto a piece of paper.
So, you could take the gauge into a car, get the contour, then trace it on the spot...fold that up and be on your way.
Mounting should be similar to the stock on.
That is a hole of dimension X and buy a new jam bushing to insert into the base of the knob.
Rich
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 16 2009, 10:14 AM
Neat!
Any chance I could get you to pull some specs off it for me? Maybe some reference photos? I'm not planning on making these to sell (don't want to step on toes) but I'd like to have a better idea of what I am making.
Zach
Hi Zach. We have one here in the showcase
Does anyone have the specs for the 917 shift knobs? I am talking about the ones that were laminated wood.
I am looking for:
What wood was used in the lamination
What are the dimensions
How was it attached.
I know someone already makes these, and I could just buy one. However, I am interested in learning how to use a wood lathe and my grandfather is going to give me his and all his tooling for it. Instead of just turning eggs until I get the idea of what I am doing, I figured this would be a more useful project to start with.
Zach
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 16 2009, 10:16 AM
Rich, I don't have any pictures of the original ones. I don't want to work off the repoped products if I can avoid it. Hence the call for specs and pictures, etc.
Zach
Posted by: Challe Jan 16 2009, 11:03 AM
Well a balsa shift knob, was made of balsawood 
the Porsche Carrera GT has an shift knob in balsa.
917 version is more "ball"shaped
This is the best pic i found from a 917 cockpit
Posted by: Richard Casto Jan 16 2009, 11:17 AM
I would be interested in the specs as well. I have also considered making one for myself.
If someone could post a link to whoever makes repro version today, that would be helpful as well.
Posted by: jmill Jan 16 2009, 11:21 AM
Looks like a laminate glue up with 2 types of wood. Balsa is pretty soft. I would think you could use just about any wood you wanted as long as you liked the colors.
Posted by: Joe Sharp Jan 16 2009, 12:21 PM
I thought it was clear pine and magohany. Balsa is to soft to hold up to the handling. Thomas has one and I'll take a look at it for you Zack.
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 16 2009, 12:40 PM
no not balsa. The one we have is original old stock so I think. I will take a pic in a moment and post
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2009, 01:24 PM
huge bird thread about them;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=178483&highlight=balsa+shift+knob
here a pic/sale
http://www.tremotorsports.com/product.cfm?Node=10299
Posted by: Spoke Jan 16 2009, 02:28 PM
Zach,
If you make a couple, I'll take one. I have a shifter for the red car that doesn't have a knob. Those 917 knobs look cool.
Spoke
Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Jan 16 2009, 02:53 PM
I do not know how to down load the image from my e mail! Sorry Jason is not here today so I need some help
Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2009, 03:52 PM
I do not know how to down load the image from my e mail! Sorry Jason is not here today so I need some help
Open email.
Look at picture
Hover mouse on top of picture.
RIGHT click once on the mouse as its on top of the picture.
Left click, save attachment
Save the picture to /mydocument/pictures
Now you have it.
Rich
Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2009, 03:52 PM
like this
Attached image(s)
Posted by: r_towle Jan 16 2009, 03:55 PM
Maple and mahogany.
1/8 inch maple
1/4 inch mahogany.
Hint.
Make a long laminated glue up that is 1.5 wide (if thats the width) and 2 feet long..
After its dry, cut a bunch of square blanks for the lathe process.
Another hunt for the learning curve
Go buy a fugly cutting board at a kitchen store made from these two woods, maple and mahogany
Cut a few square blanks and turn up a few practise knows to get a feel for how fast you can cut, how to mount it etc etc.
You will end up using a custom made deadman for the non driven side of the knob...not the pin it comes with.
You turn that up out of rock maple or any super hard wood..rock maple is easier to find.
It will be shaped like a cup, but very shallow to give you room to work.
Use soap to keep it from burning.
Rich
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 16 2009, 05:30 PM
As I don't have a plane or a bandsaw to make the thick boards thinner, where can I find mahogany and maple in 1/8 and 1/4 inch thicknesses?
Its easy in balsa or pine, but I was unable to find it in other woods.
Zach
Posted by: scotty b Jan 16 2009, 05:37 PM
As I don't have a plane or a bandsaw to make the thick boards thinner, where can I find mahogany and maple in 1/8 and 1/4 inch thicknesses?
Its easy in balsa or pine, but I was unable to find it in other woods.
Zach
My dad does abunch of woodworking, If you want some catalogs let me know. He gets woodworking crap as often as I get car crap.
http://www.woodcraft.com/depts.aspx?deptid=1038&topnav=true
Posted by: jimkelly Jan 16 2009, 05:56 PM
here she is
Attached image(s)
Posted by: scotty b Jan 16 2009, 06:01 PM
here she is
Um no. Bad monkey, bad. Go to your poop box and think about what you have done. 
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 16 2009, 08:19 PM
Okay, we have some people saying that they are balsa/mahogany and some saying that they are maple/mahogany.
Can anyone point me to a source that says definativly what they ware made of?
I can't see how balsa would deform when laminated with mahogany.
Zach
Posted by: scotty b Jan 16 2009, 08:21 PM
Purple heart and Cocobolo 
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 16 2009, 09:17 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 201 Hi all, I do still make them but they are sold exclusively here http://www.tremotorsports.com/product.cfm?Node=10299
Epoxy coating them would be fine but that was not the way the original ones where finished and the oils from our hands create a great patina after awhile. All the original 917, 907's & 908's used these and the ones I have seen all have a nice worn used look.
You can't really say the originals where made with Birch or Balsa because the restoration gurus don't even know for sure what woods where used. I have sold knobs to both Carl Thompson & Dale Miller for use in restoration projects so these seem to be as close as anyone has found to original. All though, original is not always the best...
Mark..
From messing with model airplanes as a kid, balsa wood is so soft it would probably split apart while machining and that would be really frustrating learnig curve.
Posted by: Jeff Hail Jan 17 2009, 02:40 AM
The 917 Shift Knob is actually made from turned Birch Plywood. How do I know his. Hans Metzger told me. Balsa would absorb moisture like a sponge and crack as it is very porous. The shift knob was never intended to be light weight. The purpose of the wood was because the linkage transmitted so much heat from the transmission into the drivers hand that wood was used as an insulator.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: dbu356 Jan 17 2009, 09:55 AM
I got 2 of them from Mark Cross when he was making them several years back...He may still be making them, I don't know.
I'll take pictures and measurements of mine later today if you would like.
The link to the 911S registry story is:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6030&highlight=shift+knob
His email was (is?)
macross860@columbus.rr.com
David
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 17 2009, 10:57 AM
same person as my post, he sells exclusively to TRE, wich is in the post also.
Posted by: jasons Jan 17 2009, 11:15 AM
same person as my post, he sells exclusively to TRE, wich is in the post also.
I got one of Mark Cross' knobs back when he sold them for like $35. Here is a pic.
They weren't balsa.
Here is his post from when he was selling them. It might say what he made them out of. I didn't review it.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=19486&mode=threaded&pid=248306
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 17 2009, 11:24 AM
How did you get it on he Rennshift? That looks great.
Posted by: jasons Jan 17 2009, 11:33 AM
How did you get it on he Rennshift? That looks great.
You know, I was able to find a factory Porsche crush sleeve. I tried to use it, but it took more pressure than I was comfortable putting on that wood shift knob. If I would have split that knob putting it on the shifter, I would hate myself. So, I cheated and I just used duct tape to act as a bushing between the shifter and the knob. Wrapped the shifter with the duct tape, pressed the knob on. Its a dirty secret but it worked.
Consider that a "Duct tape confession".
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 17 2009, 11:43 AM
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 17 2009, 12:39 PM
On the TRE site they say to glue the knob on to the shifter arm.
Zach
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 17 2009, 01:00 PM
Although I saw this thread I never looked at it, to me who would want a knob made of balsa. Too soft and would look like crap in no time.
Also it has to be to hardwoods, as a softwood and a hardwood would be hard to machine and almost imposable to sand. The softwood will sand more than the hardwood making it rippled.
Birch ply could be correct as the Germans loved to use Baltic birch ply.
Now that peeks my interest...and I have a huge board of purple heart.
How about purple heart and black walnut or cherry
Maybe purple heart and white ash
Posted by: scotty b Jan 17 2009, 01:09 PM
Maybe purple heart and white ash
[/quote]
OOOOoooohhhhhhhh 
I'll take one please 
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 17 2009, 02:35 PM
I thought the big board was purple heart, but now that I've looked it's more likely Pernambuco and I do have some pieces of amazon rosewood
A good "type of exotic wood" site is this one:
http://www.hobbithouseinc.com/personal/woodpics/
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 17 2009, 03:17 PM
Well, I bought enough mahogany and maple to make 3 or 4 knobs.
I could not find birch plywood - but I did not look too hard.
So, I guess the idea of the "balsa" shift knob is just a well accepted myth?
Zach
Posted by: dflesburg Jan 17 2009, 03:32 PM
Good grief, pay the $75 and be done.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 17 2009, 04:11 PM
Good grief, pay the $75 and be done.
If I did that, how would I learn to use a lathe? If I wanted to just be done with it, I'd use the cool aluminum one I have on hand.
Zach
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 24 2009, 05:49 PM
Mahogany and maple glue up.
in trimmed specs are about 47mm tall x 50mm wide.
Starting with 5 of them. I have enough mahogany for 1 more knob, and enough maple for 2 or three. But I am out of clamps and got tired of cutting disks. So, starting with 5.
Pics!
I'm at the in-laws this weekend due to the house flood, so I only brough hand tools with me. Was really relaxing to slow down and just use a coping saw for a while. I'll leave them in the clamps over night and start turning next week some time.
Zach
Posted by: Dr Evil Jan 24 2009, 06:14 PM
Finish your dang car already 
It bugs me when people tell you to take the easy way out, kind of misses the whole damn point.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Jan 24 2009, 06:29 PM
Finish your dang car already
Next weekend.
I may be able to sell a few of these at Hershey to recover some of the money spent on the house this and next week. Sides, while I'm at the inlaws, not a lot of car work I can be doing.
Zach
Posted by: Jeff Hail Jan 24 2009, 11:44 PM
The high road taken has the better view!
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 11 2009, 06:50 AM
PROGRESS!
Okay, my grandfather, who owns the lathe that I was going to turn these on, has been hard to schedule time with. For a 94 year old man, he is busy nearly every day. The other side, though, is that he gets tired very quickly. Its important for me to spend as much time with him as I can, while I can.
But, long story short, I had time last night, so I made this without the use of a lathe. I used to do a lot of wood carving, so I carved it. I did most of the shaping with a 1/2 round cheese grater type file, and then chucked it into my drill press for sanding. I raised the grain 3 times, and the last sanding was at 400 grit. It is baby butt smooth. Then I threaded the aluminum shank so I could screw it in to my Rennshifter.
it is not *perfectly* round, but it is pretty damn close.
I think that I will finish it with some boiled linseed oil, or maybe tung oil. Something that will deepen the color and natural luster of the wood w/o staining it.
Pics!
I still don't have my good camera. I took this one at my office with a P&S, then fixed the white balance in photoshop.
This really bad picture was taken with my cell phone. Please excuse its crappyness.
Due to the fact that I threaded the shank after I made the knob, I'll need to add a small aluminum spacer between the knob and the shifter, or drill out the first 2 or 3 threads in the shifter. Right now there is a 1/16 inch gap between the ball and the shifter. I did not want to thread the shank before I glued it in place because I was worried about damaging the thread when the shank was chucked into the lathe (or drill press in this case).
I am going to make 4 more of these, using the lathe. Again, its more about the time with Pop pop then the need to use the lathe, but learning a new skill is always a plus too.
Zach
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 11 2009, 06:54 AM
Oh! I forgot to add the ball specs.
it turned out (get it, TURNED OUT! HA!) to be 46mm wide by 47mm tall.
The ball (and shank, obviously) weighs 39 grams.
The turned aluminum knob that I have weighed well over 100 grams, and I thought it was light. My reloading scale only goes to 100 grams, so I don't know exactly how much more the aluminum knob weighed, but it was considerable.
Zach
Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 11 2009, 07:46 AM
Nice work Zach! 
Posted by: Spoke Feb 11 2009, 07:49 AM
Nice work. If you want to sell one of the extra ones, I'll take it. I'm converting my red car to side shift and the shifter doesn't have a knob.
Spoke
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 11 2009, 07:59 AM
I'm not sure what I am going to do with the spares. I know I am going to sell some of them to recoup costs for the project, but I am not sure if I am going to make them all into Rennshift balls, or if I will want to make a jig to turn them for the standard shifter (which I don't think will take the shank). Right now the shank can be used to attach the ball to the lathe with a standard chuck. Without the shank, I'd have to make a special jig to turn them.
I am sure that I will have at least 2 for sale at some point, maybe 4. It depends.
Zach
Posted by: So.Cal.914 Feb 11 2009, 08:27 AM
Nice work sir. Very attractive.
Posted by: Richard Casto Feb 11 2009, 09:16 AM
very nice.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 11 2009, 11:44 AM
Please let me know on the extra ones as well... I am interested 
Nice work 
Posted by: Rod Feb 11 2009, 11:58 AM
That is fantastic and a really beautiful looking thing!!
I would love one too - s If you fancy having one residing in the UK please let me know..
I would really love one of these in the '14 so If you can't manage to save one for me, is there anywhere in the US that manufacturers them?? (I guess not as you are doing it yourself 
)
Posted by: carr914 Feb 11 2009, 02:22 PM
Rod, go back to Post #11 for info on where to get them when Zach runs out.
T.C.
Posted by: Rod Feb 11 2009, 02:57 PM
Rod, go back to Post #11 for info on where to get them when Zach runs out.
T.C.
Thankyou T.C.
Posted by: '73-914kid Feb 11 2009, 06:01 PM
BLO (sorry, boiled linseed oil......too much time spent on guns these days) will really make that look even better! right now it looks great, but it will for sure bring out the depth in the wood. After that, if your really want to go all out, do some wood wax. It will then make it look super smooth, and feel smooth. It looks really good now as is, but if definetly needs something to finish the bare wood....
now I want one of these! They sure look cool!
Posted by: ssstikircr Feb 11 2009, 06:06 PM
My hat is off to you it looks GREAT!
Posted by: scotty b Feb 11 2009, 06:18 PM
AWESOME Zachck Next one needs to be purple heart and cocobolo. I'll give ya 5 bucks for it buddy
Posted by: championgt1 Feb 11 2009, 08:00 PM
Very nice work!
Posted by: URY914 Feb 11 2009, 09:09 PM
Will it fit my 917? The original knob is wore out.
Posted by: So.Cal.914 Feb 11 2009, 11:21 PM
Maybe you could protect the wood with duct tape and use a little file to remove a little material. Like in the pic, rather than messing with the threads on the shifter.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 12 2009, 07:27 AM
Eh, I just drilled out the top 2 threads on my Renn Shifter and it worked perfect.
However, for the Mk2 ball, I made a jig to hold the ball in the late. Then, once the ball is done I can bore it out to what ever I need. I took pics, but they are not online yet, so those will have to be posted later.
Zach
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 12 2009, 10:27 AM
Hey Zach, If I am so lucky as to be one of the recipients of one of these I too have the Rennshift and what you did with this is perfect. Your work is awesome on this one and I can't wait to see the others.
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 12 2009, 05:34 PM
Hey Zach, If I am so lucky as to be one of the recipients of one of these I too have the Rennshift and what you did with this is perfect. Your work is awesome on this one and I can't wait to see the others.
Hold that thought. I have another ball blank ready to do (with the rennshifter shank glued in) that I am going to turn Tuesday. If it comes out as nice as the one I made Tuesday, I'll send you a PM about it with pics.
I have 4 blanks made w/o the shank in that I will offer up in the Member Vendor section as I get them made.
Zach
Posted by: jimtab Feb 12 2009, 05:53 PM
Zach...instead of Balsa I'll bet the light colored wood is Bass wood, similar in it's lightness to balsa but much sturdier and more "toolable"....many hardware stores, at least the one I work at have balsa/bass wood centers...also hobby stores...if they really still exist, used to have them....good luck, I love the look of the strata....
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 12 2009, 08:05 PM
Hey Zach, If I am so lucky as to be one of the recipients of one of these I too have the Rennshift and what you did with this is perfect. Your work is awesome on this one and I can't wait to see the others.
Hold that thought. I have another ball blank ready to do (with the rennshifter shank glued in) that I am going to turn Tuesday. If it comes out as nice as the one I made Tuesday, I'll send you a PM about it with pics.
I have 4 blanks made w/o the shank in that I will offer up in the Member Vendor section as I get them made.
Zach
Posted by: Vacca Rabite Feb 23 2009, 09:30 AM
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=92978&st=0#entry1137259
3 for sale in the member vendor section. Get them while they are hot.
Zach
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