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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Starting a 1971 IMSA 914 Restoration

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 21 2009, 08:54 PM

I am finally starting on the build thread for the IMSA 914. This is a 1971 914-4
that was bought in 1975 or 6 as a used car and turned into an IMSA GTU car.
It is a well crafted but not big budget car with a lot of clever touches that helped
it to beat a lot of more famous and undoubtedly better financed teams.

My wife and I plan to restore the car to racing condition and then enjoy the
heck out of it without abusing it any further (its clearly had a hard life).

Our priorities are (1) make it safe and legal for current vintage rules (2) keep
it original as practical (3) keep it period correct, in that order. We also want to
avoid over restoring it too much, but it is easy to understand the temptation
to cad plate, power coat, and perfectly repaint everything. I think this last issue
will be the biggest, other than going broke or insane first (either one would
be a short trip at this point).

I plan to post way too many photos, the best quality I can, until people flame
me big time to stop. I also expect you, yes YOU!, to help me figure out what
to do and give me ideas and comments. I may not always do everything people
want, but I will consider all ideas. I'm really just a novice restorer and I know
I can't do this without your help.

OK, so screw the BS, lets see some pictures. aktion035.gif

Competing at Sebring as a 4-cylinder (changed to a six soon after).

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T.C., who found the car in a barn, passes it on to me (what luck!).

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I had to turn to a close friend for the financing, but it worked out.

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Huge ATL 500A fuel cell. The hood just closes over this.

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TC, URY914, SMG914, and I working on my Explorer flat six conversion.

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Fiberglass flares and paintwork need a little bit of work.

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Wife: Are you sure we are buying the right car? Why don't we just buy this one
from T.C., it actually has an engine inside the car. laugh.gif

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I have started to dissassemble the car so it can be soda blasted and I have tons
of pictures to post.

So what do you all think?

John





Posted by: slow914 Jan 21 2009, 09:00 PM

flag.gif flag.gif flag.gif

Post all the pictures you would like and, If you'd like to share ALLL of them without being to crazy just put them all in a indexed online album anyone can look at like on photobucket

Oh and GODSPEED good sir

Posted by: championgt1 Jan 21 2009, 09:04 PM

Cool project. Post lots of pics! smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: Todd Enlund Jan 22 2009, 01:27 AM

This is gonna be awesome... popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 22 2009, 01:35 AM

agree.gif piratenanner.gif

Posted by: PanelBilly Jan 22 2009, 01:55 AM

THe whole over restoration thing is a difficult one. Your already soda blasting and that's the beginning of the cycle. I'm assuming you've already determined that the car needs significant work, so why not aim high and bring it back to the condition is was when it started its racing life. If you want to drive, I think that you should buy a driver. If you get a car to restore, it should be done with the most perfection you can manage.

Just my 2cents. Then again, I can walk right past a race car, but a restored car will stop me in my tracks.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 22 2009, 06:35 AM

Encouragement is right here across the State. Advise is Free.

T.C.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 22 2009, 07:22 AM


Thanks everyone for the encouragement.

Billy: I think what I am trying to avoid is making it more perfect than it ever was
during its racing career. The two guys who ran the car built it to be a practical
racer and never a show car wth perfect paint, etc. I am sure when I get done
it will be better than it ever was when it was a race car, its just a question of how
much better. A lot of the fabrication has a quick and dirty look to it. It has a lot
of surface rust that needs to go so there is no question of saving the original paint.

John

Posted by: carr914 Jan 22 2009, 07:27 AM

John, I told you I would dig up a picture of a Mazda RX-7 Cooler I had in 914 racecar. Also there is one on eBay from AutoAtlanta right now sitting at $25 with the reserve not met.

T.C.

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Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 22 2009, 08:06 AM

QUOTE
Thanks everyone for the encouragement.

Billy: I think what I am trying to avoid is making it more perfect than it ever was
during its racing career. The two guys who ran the car built it to be a practical
racer and never a show car wth perfect paint, etc. I am sure when I get done
it will be better than it ever was when it was a race car, its just a question of how
much better. A lot of the fabrication has a quick and dirty look to it. It has a lot
of surface rust that needs to go so there is no question of saving the original paint.

John


I think the term is sympathetic restoration.
Keep up the photo's

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 22 2009, 03:41 PM

Did you take detailed photos of the graphics? Do you care?

That's the only thing I'd add... Godspeed.

Posted by: JmuRiz Jan 22 2009, 03:47 PM

Cool, and take/post all the pictures you want, the more the better.

Best of luck on the project!

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 22 2009, 06:35 PM

I did a car with hand painted graphics and used trace paper , then the sign painter redid em exact.

Posted by: turboman808 Jan 22 2009, 06:48 PM

That's an awesome project piratenanner.gif

Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 22 2009, 08:02 PM

That will be a sick project!

Posted by: ericread Jan 22 2009, 08:15 PM

So... Where the hell are the pictures dry.gif


Just kidding. We can't wait to see your progress beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 22 2009, 08:20 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Jan 22 2009, 05:35 PM) *

I did a car with hand painted graphics and used trace paper , then the sign painter redid em exact.


I was planning to get good photos of all the graphics, but full size tracing sounds
like a good idea as well. T.C. located the jewelry store in Miami that was once
the sponsor, but they seem to be out of business now. Maybe if we can dig up
the address, some World member in Miami can swing by and see what they can
find out???

John


Posted by: carr914 Jan 22 2009, 08:31 PM

The Sponsor was Le Trianon Jewelry Corp - 3807 NW 7th Street, Miami, FL - Owner, Alfred Curi. It was near the Airport & Flagler Dog Track

T.C.

John, Did you get ahold of Manual Cueto Jr.?

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Posted by: FourBlades Jan 22 2009, 08:43 PM

No, T.C., I have not done that yet. I have worked every day since I picked up
the car from you. The big crunch should end in 10 more days or so. Then I plan
to take off a few weeks and make some progress.

Here are some more pictures. I got a lot of great advice on taking pictures from
people, not all of which I have been able to implement yet, but most of these are
ok. First thing I did was to take apart the fuel system.

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Here is an oil filter that was loose inside the car. Is this company still around?
It looks like a stainless screen filter, do people use these on the 914-6s still?

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Notice the dual fuel pumps, filters, and relays. These connect to a fuel pressure
regulator and then to the normal fuel line in the tunnel. Don't know if the plastic
lines are in there still.

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This is the custom made oil tank. You can see the fuel pressure regulator, which
is bolted to its side. It has a range of 1-6 pounds so the car had to be running
carbs. Geez, I sound like I actually know something about 914s, ha!

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I know just enough now to realize how much I have to learn.

John

Posted by: carr914 Jan 22 2009, 08:57 PM

John, That Par filter was actually in-line for the tranny cooler at the rear of the car. The lines were all brittle and when I was stripping the trunk I took that filter off.

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The best I could tell the car was running a Twin-Plug motor due to the twin ignition boxes & Coils that are attached to the firewall where the passenger seat would be. I'm sure they were running carbs.

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T.C.

Posted by: wertygrog Jan 24 2009, 12:05 AM

COOL!

More pictures! smile.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2009, 07:32 PM

Thanks T.C. for the pictures. You know I will be calling you with questions.

Here is the dash area. Notice the old halon fire system. I am a little nervous
about disconnecting it. I guess the worst is that it triggers and sprays halon,
which I think it pretty inert and non-staining.

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Weird roll over fuel cut off device which uses ping pong balls.

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Twin coil ignition system. I'd like to run a twin plug six motor but I guess
this is much more expensive than a single plug? Also notice the dzus fastened
motor access plate in the firewall. For safety, I will either weld this back up
or install some better sealed panel.

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Wide, fiberglass flares are pretty cracked and beat up. I think I will cut them
off while the car is being blasted. There is a lot of rust underneath the fiberglass.
I plan to repair the flares and reattach them once the car is expoxy primered.
I used to shape and laminate surf boards, so this should not be too hard. The
flares were rivetted and glassed originally. I think I will just glass them to
eliminate the rust holes created by the rivets.

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John


Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2009, 08:04 PM

Found some wide, three piece Gotti wheels with Porsche center sections and caps.

I think T.C. had some pictures of 914s from the same era running Gottis.

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These suckers are wide. Tires have no wear but may be too old to use.

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Rear tires are rubbing even with 1" spacers.

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I haven't decided if I like the red accents or not.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2009, 08:11 PM

Time to pull the fuel cell.

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A vintage racing rats nest. I'll be saving this to sell on ebay soon. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif
These rats knew how to live. There had to be 50 snail shells in there. They
must have taken them back to their lair for some tasty dinners.

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Cleaned it up wearing a respirator and gloves. Don't want any of the humma
humma (sp?) mouse borne virus another member posted about.

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There are a lot of holes and pieces cut out of the front to make room for various
things. I'd like to see something besides the fiberglass bumper between the
front of the car and the fuel cell.

John



Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2009, 08:15 PM

If anyone out there has pictures of this car from any event, I would love to have
a copy and find out what you know about it. piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

I'd also like to see more pictures of period 914 race cars, especially the privateer
run cars.

That is it for tonight.

John

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Posted by: Lavanaut Jan 24 2009, 09:23 PM

This is sweet, keep on posting them pics! smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2009, 10:16 PM

QUOTE(Lavanaut @ Jan 24 2009, 08:23 PM) *

This is sweet, keep on posting them pics! smilie_pokal.gif


Thanks man, I found one more to post...

Not sure why they cut this big hole from the trunk to the gas tank area.

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Don't be shy if you have any comments, people.

John


Posted by: markb Jan 24 2009, 10:43 PM

QUOTE(Lavanaut @ Jan 24 2009, 07:23 PM) *

This is sweet, keep on posting them pics! smilie_pokal.gif

agree.gif

Posted by: jc914 Jan 25 2009, 08:46 AM

popcorn[1].gif I will be following your rebuild you have work to do. GOOD LUCK

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 29 2009, 07:42 PM

Pulled the fuel cell and checked it out. Might need some work.

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The fuel cell has a very sturdy rubber bladder filled with foam in it, or maybe not.

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I guess that is what 33 years of soaking in racing fuel will do to something.

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Looks like it was bought in 1976 and is a 500A model.

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I'm pretty sure the receipt for the cell came with the car. Do you think ATL will
honor the warranty still???

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Back of the front bumper shows layers of fiberglass repairs and bondo. Sorry
about the poor photo quality. You can also see the mounting brackets for the
main head lights.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 29 2009, 07:50 PM


I screwed up the pictures in that last post about 4 times and had to keep editing
it. Sorry about that if you saw it when it was de-ranged.

John




Posted by: ssstikircr Jan 29 2009, 07:57 PM

The pics are great keep them comming.

Posted by: carr914 Jan 29 2009, 08:21 PM

I'd send that Fuel Cell back to ATL for warranty replacement laugh.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 29 2009, 08:24 PM


Don't laugh, I am going to try it...

I read somewhere how they helped refurbish a cell for some other race
car restoration. biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 26 2009, 08:22 AM


I need some help from you all. I am planning to use braided steel lines and AN
fittings for plumbing the car, for safety reasons. What dash sizes will I need to
use for the oil and fuel lines. I will be using a carburated six engine.

I bought a used RX7 oil cooler. I'll take it to a radiator shop to be cleaned
and tested and get the right size fittings welded on.

Can the normal steel brake lines be used? I will probably replace all the brake
lines throughout the car.

I would like to start collecting the fittings for this. I want to get some reusable
AN fittings (used) to save some money, but I will use all new hose. How many
feet of each kind of hose (approximately) will I need?

Thanks,

John

Posted by: carr914 Feb 26 2009, 08:35 AM

John, I'll look through my receipts on my last racecar build to see how much Steel-braid lines I bought and I'll see what extras fittings I have in my box.

This is a picture off Glenn's site. I heard he came by to visit a couple of weeks ago.

T.C.

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Posted by: KevinP Feb 26 2009, 08:46 AM

John,

Have you thought about the engine yet? I know nothing about IMSA- was the car raced as a 4 or 6 cyl?

Keep up the great work and keep the photos coming!

KP

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 26 2009, 10:01 AM


T.C. Glenn came by and took a bunch of pictures and had a lot of helpful advice
about how to restore the car. What a knowledgeable guy!

Kevin - The car was originally raced with a 4 cylinder. That lasted part of one
season. Not sure if they blew up the 4 or just wanted more power. Later they
ran with a twin plug 2.5 liter 6. This allowed them to stay in the GTU class,
which was for under 2.5 liters. If someone wanted to donate a high performance
4 (like a big Raby) I could see using that. biggrin.gif Most likely, I will use a 2.7 or
smaller 6, how hopped up depends on budget. I have a ton of receipts for the
parts used to build the car which I am trying to organize into a chronological
story of how they built the car, then what broke and was replaced when, etc.
I am going to post a summary of this when I get it all done.

John


Posted by: Al Meredith Feb 26 2009, 05:43 PM

About 4 years ago I bought a 2.4L "T" engine that last ran 10 years ago. It turned over OK . My son installed it in a 914 with center mount and all the dry sump plumbing. We took the MFI off and installed 40MM webers. If I remember correctly it got 160HP at the rear wheels. A 2.4 T is rated at 140 flywheel. So we took it apart, Polished Rods, dovetailed bearing bosses and a lightened flywheel. Then the surprise. The pistons were 87.5 MM Mahle pistons. This was a 2.5L IMSA engine. Two of the aluminum cylinders had chunks out of them from boring out the stock cylinders where the stock 2.4L head gasket goes. Too thin. Our solution was to have custom "nickies" made. I have all the reciepts for a total rebuild including CE case refinishing and ballancing. Are you interested in a period correct 2.5L engine? You would have to speak to my son who rebuilt the motor to get the full scope of work. Al

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 28 2009, 07:44 PM


Al,

I would be very interested in an IMSA motor. Is that your son Blake I need
to talk to about it? Funds are pretty tight at the moment so it kind of depends
on how much you all have into it.

John



Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 1 2009, 09:55 PM

I was thinking these would be cool on your car.


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Posted by: carr914 Mar 2 2009, 07:35 AM

Damn, what are those off, a Boeing 747?

And John, I can't find the receipt on how much braided line I bought. I know I just saw that receipt a couple of weeks ago. Maybe I threw it away?

T.C.

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 2 2009, 09:52 PM

QUOTE
Damn, what are those off, a Boeing 747?

They were actually sold for 911's. 3 1/2 spacing.


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Posted by: FourBlades Mar 2 2009, 10:03 PM


Those are some beefy looking calipers. Can you tell us anything more about
them? Were they made for racing 911s or street?

I have Eric looking our for some s-calipers for me right now. If you have
seen his 908 brake caliper thread, you will remember his concept for adding the
quick brake pad change retainer to be more like the 908 calipers. This lets you
change brake pads without any tools. I would really like a set of real 908 calipers,
but for 3x the price of the rebuilt s calipers that may be a while, not to mention
trying to find a set for sale.

The 908 calipers had room for thicker pads for endurance racing. I would hate
to machine a pair of real s calipers to make them look like 908s. If enough people
were interested, it might be worth making a new casting of the 908s.

What do you all think?

John

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 2 2009, 10:37 PM

QUOTE
What do you all think?

wacko.gif
BTW ralph m and company has the mold for the front bumper.


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Posted by: FourBlades Mar 3 2009, 07:25 AM


Do you mean front caliper or bumper? I don't know Ralph.

John

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 3 2009, 09:33 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Mar 3 2009, 05:25 AM) *

Do you mean front caliper or bumper? I don't know Ralph.

John


Front bumper - Ralph Meaney

Posted by: ChicagoPete Mar 3 2009, 06:21 PM

Doesn't Bernie Buschen have some 908 calipers available for sale??? If you are really serious about going that direction. I wouldn't imagine they are even reasonably priced, things like that are ULTRA rare.

Although now is probably not the time to contact him as there was a pretty serious fire at his shop over the weekend that injured his son pretty badly.

Perhaps someone from the northwest can chime in on this one???

Peter

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 3 2009, 09:02 PM

http://www.roadglue.com/forum/showthread.php?t=521

Posted by: krazykonrad Mar 3 2009, 09:50 PM

drooley.gif drooley.gif drooley.gif drooley.gif !!!!

It would be really cool if you reproduced the old paint scheme when you repaint. (Yes, very cool, but again them's not my $$$ being spent)

Good luck!

Konrad

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 4 2009, 08:10 AM


I have seen Bernie's thread on 908 calipers. I have heard such things run about
$3000 for a set, when you can find them. Current plan is s-calipers.

I do plan to reproduce the paint scheme as closely as possible. I will make some
full size tracings of it before it gets blasted. I will be painting it myself and will
most likely use single stage paint, which is what the car has on it now.

The black pin stripes are actually plastic pin striping tape, and not paint.

I am shooting for the "just been painted and polished in 1976" look, rather
than $500 car with a $10,000 paint job look. I am sure it will end up looking
much better than the car ever did back in the day, but still have some
character. Reading some of the 906 restoration threads from gunnar racing
has given me some ideas about how race cars where prepared by the factory.
If you have never looked at www.gunnarracing.com, do it, it is a treasure trove
of pictures, information, and Porsche resto porn.

I have the reciepts with paint codes from the hardware store where they bought
the paint. They are not Porsche codes, probably just the local store's brand codes.
I think the paint for the car was about $40 in 1976...

John

Posted by: carr914 Jul 14 2009, 07:04 PM

Any updates John?

Here's an idea to update your Rocking Chair (Termites can be bad)

T.C.

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Posted by: ghuff Jul 14 2009, 09:39 PM

That thing is *awesome*

Talk about a good find. Please paint it how it was, and make it look like a nice racecar.

No need for 10k paint, just clean and period correct.

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 15 2009, 03:17 PM


TC: I like the metal rocker, no termites or rot to worry about, just need to paint
it well to protect from rust.

I have not done anything on the IMSA car for a while. Been spending all my
time getting my other 914 finished up. I am anxious to get back to work on
the IMSA car though. The break has given me time to learn more and hopefully
avoid making too many dumb mistakes on it.

John



Posted by: Cupomeat Jul 15 2009, 03:57 PM

I am looking forward to the restart of the restoration.

I have always wished to restore a car with history.

Good luck!

Posted by: gms Dec 3 2009, 10:31 PM

get to work on this car biggrin.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 3 2009, 10:50 PM


Hey Glenn,

Good to hear from you again! I need to debug my starter and add a
full flow oil filter and my blue car should be running....

Then I will go back to the IMSA car in a big way. I need to start collecting
parts for it again. I did order some repro 908 front brake calipers from a
certain world member...

John

Posted by: gms Dec 4 2009, 09:02 PM

Here is some motivation, I finished one of my IMSA GTU cars (the Meaney/ Hendricks 914) and passed tech! I am ready to race it next spring!


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Posted by: carr914 Dec 5 2009, 06:50 AM

Glenn, stick some Meats in the rear

T.C.

Posted by: Racing916 Dec 5 2009, 08:31 AM

spacers

Posted by: gms Dec 5 2009, 06:36 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Dec 5 2009, 06:50 AM) *

Glenn, stick some Meats in the rear

T.C.

That is as wide as I can go in the class I will run, I need to put some 100mm lugs to get a proper spacer in there.

Posted by: carr914 Dec 6 2009, 06:52 AM

Glenn I have some 100mm studs if you need them.

T.C.

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Posted by: FourBlades Dec 7 2009, 06:20 AM


Glenn,

That looks great, you most be stoked! Do you have a build thread for the
car?

John

Posted by: gms Dec 7 2009, 08:37 AM

T.C. Thanks for the offer, I already have a set, just need to install

John, I put the car together in about 6 day so I really didn't document so well
http://www.roadglue.com/forum/showthread.php?t=807

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 6 2010, 04:48 PM

A picture Eric sent me today of the 908 repro calipers he is building for the car.

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These will be keeping the 914-6 GT rear calipers company that I got from TC.

I have ordered a rebuilt pedal set from Bruce Stone for the car as well.

With the Rockin 914 running now I plan to hit this car hard this spring.

The IMSA car has one big advantage over my other 914s: it is inside a garage. I
am planning for AC for this summer and maybe a little garage mahal style
remodeling.

John

Posted by: Al Meredith Mar 6 2010, 06:12 PM

John, I still have that 2.5L GTU engine, not a duel plug but has everything else. Blake and I both have other projects and are more motivated to selling it. You would have to speak to Blake since he built it. PM me if interested. Al

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 7 2010, 10:22 AM

One thing is done for this car... biggrin.gif

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Posted by: kg6dxn Mar 7 2010, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Mar 7 2010, 08:22 AM) *

One thing is done for this car... biggrin.gif

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Those sure are purdy! Eric, can you make my 930 brakes look that pretty?

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Posted by: carr914 Mar 7 2010, 05:53 PM

That's some serious PORN right there. Deserves it's own thread in the SandBox

humpy.gif

Posted by: Eric_Shea Mar 7 2010, 06:07 PM

I know of another GT build that needs these... (besides mine!) biggrin.gif

Posted by: carr914 Mar 7 2010, 06:17 PM

I Don't Need No Stinkin Brakes happy11.gif

Unless - I ever get this car back wub.gif

Posted by: number6 Mar 7 2010, 08:08 PM

QUOTE(Eric_Shea @ Mar 7 2010, 08:22 AM) *

One thing is done for this car... biggrin.gif

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YEOWSTER! drooley.gif

i can't stop drooling!

Posted by: gms Mar 7 2010, 10:03 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Mar 6 2010, 04:48 PM) *

A picture Eric sent me today of the 908 repro calipers he is building for the car.

These will be keeping the 914-6 GT rear calipers company that I got from TC.

I have ordered a rebuilt pedal set from Bruce Stone for the car as well.

With the Rockin 914 running now I plan to hit this car hard this spring.

The IMSA car has one big advantage over my other 914s: it is inside a garage. I
am planning for AC for this summer and maybe a little garage mahal style
remodeling.

John

Great news John, look forward to seeing progress!

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 22 2010, 09:57 AM

Been stripping the car getting it ready for some repairs. Removed the old
fiberglass fenders. They were pretty trashed and had been repaired multiple
times. I will be getting new flares of the same style.

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Its pretty rusty under the old flares.

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The front end was destroyed in a crash and cobbled back together using angle
iron and riveted pieces of metal. I want to replace the front valence panel, front
trunk floor, and other parts the right way and am looking for the necessary metal
from a parted out car.

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Will need to replace the floor pans.

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Can't wait to get back to hard core welding. I need to get AC for my garage as
this summer has been brutal in forida.

John



Posted by: URY914 Aug 22 2010, 12:36 PM

John,

What do ya think, a month maybe 2 to get it to the paint shop? confused24.gif smile.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 22 2010, 01:55 PM


I was thinking maybe a few hours and probably 3-4 tubes of JB Weld.

John

Posted by: carr914 Aug 22 2010, 02:59 PM

Nevermind my post on your other thread, I thought I had clicked on this one.

You aren't kidding about needing A/C in the garage. I added 2 more fans and still can't go out there. After the coldest Winter in history, July & August have been the hottest in history.

T.C.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 9 2010, 06:30 PM

Looking at the struts and sway bars on the car. Does anyone recognize this sway
bar arm? For some reason, RSR comes to my mind.

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Struts are too rusty and dirty to tell what they are without cleaning. They do have
3.5" brake caliper spacing. Not sure if the struts are salvageable. I sprayed some
etching primer in there to prevent further rust.

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Looks like the front right fender was replaced at some point. Kind of a hack job.

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The whole front end was wrecked at some point and replaced with this aluminum
bar. I plan to replace the front trunk floor and front valence panel, then add a
GT style radiator and shroud.

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I think the car started its racing career more like a normal GT and got franken14ed
later after some accident. I think the car will be much nicer if I return it to the way
a 914GT would have looked.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 9 2010, 06:39 PM

More hideous rust and damage pictures. The front trunk floor is basically falling
apart. They cut a big hole in the bulkhead in front of the oil tank for some reason,
maybe cooling because there is another hole in the floor under the oil tank?

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They added these brackets and mounted driving lights that aim through holes in the
bumper. I will keep this and mount some new lights here.

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I would probably be better off just replacing the entire front end of the car right in
front of the shock towers. Not sure if that is a realistic plan. I am afraid the front
suspension mounting points are shot.

Will probably piece it all back in as I can find rust free replacement sheet metal.

Hint hint. Will pay for time and shipping.

John



Posted by: FourBlades Nov 9 2010, 06:53 PM

Been planning how the oil system will work. This is the oil tank that came with the
car. It looks like it was custom made. I am pretty sure I have seen other oil tanks
with the same shape and in the same location as the one in this car.

Attached Image

Here is where the tank fits in the car.

Attached Image

The tank has internal plates that slope down to a hole in the center. I think the
-20 fitting on the side is where oil would enter the tank and drain down into the
lower portion. The -20 fitting on the bottom is the return line to the engine. It
runs into the passenger area then into the long and out into the engine bay.

I am guessing the two fittings on the top are for engine breathers?

I am new to /6 engines and am trying to plumb the mysteries of the oil system. I
think I can use a 993 oil filter console on the engine to replace the engine mounted
oil cooler. I think the oil scavenge pump will feed oil to the front of the car into a
thermostat. The thermostat will either feed the front mounted oil cooler and then
into the side fitting of the oil tank, or it will send the oil directly into the oil tank.
From there its out the bottom of the tank and back to the pressure pump on the engine.

I'm thinking of buying a new oil cooler for the car. I have an old RX7 cooler I could
have cleaned and tested but /6 engines are too expensive to screw up with a used
$50 oil cooler.

Any advice or suggestions on the above would be appreciated.

John





Posted by: gms Nov 9 2010, 08:09 PM

John here is a diagram of oil system with cooler.
Your oil tank is most likely custom as was the norm for Private IMSA teams.
The oil would generally come into the tank at a higher level and drip thru a screen to remove air from the oil. The scavenge side of the oil pump will push the oil thru the cooler and into the tank.
Attached Image

Posted by: gms Nov 9 2010, 08:14 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 9 2010, 07:30 PM) *

Looking at the struts and sway bars on the car. Does anyone recognize this sway
bar arm? For some reason, RSR comes to my mind.

Attached Image

This looks like an aftermarket Charley Bar, it was somewhere around 22mm.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 9 2010, 08:27 PM


Thanks Glenn, I was hoping you would chime in.

Do you think the top fittings were for engine breathers?

John

Posted by: bcheney Nov 9 2010, 09:04 PM

You're doing a great job John. This project is so cool to follow. It will take a lot to get'er done...But, in the end you're gonna have a great car with excellent stories to tell of how it came to be!

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 9 2010, 09:57 PM

Thats an old H&H sway bar

Posted by: pete000 Nov 10 2010, 12:01 AM

I might have seen that car run at Sebring when I was a kid. Have to look through all my old photos.

Funny it has a speedometer in it, most race cars discard that.

It say's 914-4 on the front bumper ? you metioned it had a six?

Neat project, keep digging !

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 10 2010, 06:26 AM


They ran it as a 4 cylinder for a while and then went to a twin plug 6.

Any period photos of the car would be greatly appreciated!

John

Posted by: gms Nov 10 2010, 08:07 AM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Nov 9 2010, 10:57 PM) *

Thats an old H&H sway bar

You are right Jeff, the Charley Bars are more refined

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 10 2010, 10:29 AM


I wonder if the arms would fit on the new GPR bar? I'll have to take it out
and check it it fits the stock sway bar arms.

John

Posted by: URY914 Nov 10 2010, 07:33 PM

John,

Anything you do to this car will be an improvement on they way it was patched together by the original owner. It seems he was more concerned about being able to make the race than he was about winning the race. You could restore it to the period correct race car but that would be just a pieced together backmarker. It's cool that you have a former IMSA 914 but you run the risk of over restoring it just by giving it a decent paint job.

I hope you understand what I saying and I don't get flamed by those that don't.

Paul

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 10 2010, 09:18 PM


Paul,

You have really put your finger on the problem. Just vacumming the sand out
of the car was over restoring it. I have convinced myself it did not start its
racing career this rusted out and patched together. With that rationalization
in place I am shooting for restoring it more to the early part of its career,
when it actually had a more complete set of 914 sheetmetal. smile.gif

I am also trying to make it a working and safe race car, so all the paper thin
rusted stuff has got to go. They did not use braided covered hose in most
places but I will in the interest of safety. It is basically was a non-functional
wreck when I got it so leaving it as it was did not have much point.

I am sure the car will end up nicer than it ever was, but not as blatantly over
restored as some cars end up. I read recently that a 70s Corvette right off the
factory floor would only score about 77 in a concours today.

If people have advice or opinions then please post away.

John



Posted by: URY914 Nov 11 2010, 04:45 PM

John,

I'm glad you understand where I'm coming from. This was not a factory 914GT that ran at LeMans. It was more like a guys toy that happened to own a gas station in Miami. I wonder what would come back if you ran the vin# through the police data base? sad.gif

Posted by: tscrihfield Nov 11 2010, 04:52 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 9 2010, 08:39 PM) *

More hideous rust and damage pictures. The front trunk floor is basically falling
apart. They cut a big hole in the bulkhead in front of the oil tank for some reason,
maybe cooling because there is another hole in the floor under the oil tank?

Attached Image

They added these brackets and mounted driving lights that aim through holes in the
bumper. I will keep this and mount some new lights here.

Attached Image

I would probably be better off just replacing the entire front end of the car right in
front of the shock towers. Not sure if that is a realistic plan. I am afraid the front
suspension mounting points are shot.

Will probably piece it all back in as I can find rust free replacement sheet metal.

Hint hint. Will pay for time and shipping.

John


Now I understand the reason you are looking for my nose. I asked my dad about shipping it from his work and he said it should be no problem. You should have in by Thanksgiving if all works out with shipping will keep you posted!

Thomas

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 13 2010, 07:54 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 10 2010, 10:18 PM) *

If people have advice or opinions then please post away.

This is a cool project.

IMO it would be appropriate to make the car appear like it did when it was campaigned in IMSA. However, updating with the best available components, as though the car had been well maintained and continually improved during its tenure, would also be correct.

The first 914 race car I ever saw was an SCCA E Production car, at a Lime Rock EMRA time trial in the mid eighties. That was enough to put me on the path I took to racing my own car in SCCA.
By the time I saw an IMSA 914 on TV (I never saw one in person), their era was past but if I were into vintage racing I think this is what I would like to play with.

Posted by: ME733 Nov 13 2010, 01:14 PM

......I think you have a great project there....and properly restored would be a welcome sight in vintage racing, which you would enjoy immensely....side note, I once looked for a formula super vee ( air cooled) which was in original condition., never found one. What you have found in that 914-4 is a diamond in the rough., and may well turn out to be valuable if you restore it properly. I would say that you should not do a "down and dirty" or "cheap" restoration. Take your time and do it properly. It could be way more valuable, restored, than you could imigine.

Posted by: sixnotfour Nov 13 2010, 04:05 PM

QUOTE
It was more like a guys toy that happened to own a gas station in Miami.


I thought they owned a jewlery business? The big guys in that era were drug smugglers
Any car that actually raced in the big races is a worthy project. Compare to your first project this is a wlk in the park.
Keep up the good work.


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 13 2010, 08:47 PM

Thanks very much for all the comments. It helps me to decide what to do.
This car has a lot of value to me and I see myself as a caretaker. So it will
get used in appropriate events but not abused nor will it be locked away in my
motor racing heritage museum (i.e. my garage). Wouldn't it be cool if a couple
regular guys (like the original owners were) could build still build a car and
compete in the ALMS/IMSA with the big boys, which is what this car represents.
I think for a lot of closet racers, this is a common dream.

My plan is to make it look like it did when it ran Sebring, Daytona, etc. on the
outside but with the rust repaired, new components that would not have been
out of place in the late 70s, and safer than it was. So it will get the same exact
paint scheme, same type of fiberglass flares, I will repair the original front
bumper, repair the fiberglass roof, use the original fuse and switch panel,
use the custom made oil tank, use a GT style front oil cooler like they had,
use Gotti wheels like they did, keep the original roll cage, original tranny
cooler and pump, 2 fuel pumps, 2 ignition set ups, etc. No carbon fiber.

Whereever I can keep the original parts I will, and where I can't I will get similar
new or used parts. I do plan to make it safer so I will use braided fuel lines, etc.
but am looking for nickel plated fittings rather than blue and red aeroquip fittings,
which they had only a few of.

It is interesting how many companies are still in business that made parts
in the 1970s, like Koni, ATL, mocal, holley, bilstein, bosch, etc.

I could have kept it exactly as I got it, but it would only be a rusty paperweight
then, not a living, running car. I plan to bring the car back to life without over
doing it, or using stuff they never had, unless for safety.

I was also thinking we are only seeing what it looks like 30 years after they
quit racing it. Who knows when the front end crash happened that removed
so much of the original metal and caused a lot of rust to happen. It was run
in SCCA racing after the original builders sold it (they moved on to 911s).

Sorry for the long ramble, I am actually trying to keep this fun.

Today my buddy Sean (the Prawn) was over and we built a stand to get the
car off the ground so we could remove the suspension and repair the front
end damage.

Attached Image

You can see how little was left of the front of the car. A couple world members
are helping me out with parts cut from wrecked cars that I will post when they
get here.

Attached Image

Getting some serious help from Chris Foley, which is hugely appreciated.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Nov 13 2010, 08:53 PM

QUOTE(sixnotfour @ Nov 13 2010, 03:05 PM) *

QUOTE
It was more like a guys toy that happened to own a gas station in Miami.


> Yes exactly, some regular guys go racing and actually finish pretty well.


I thought they owned a jewlery business? The big guys in that era were drug smugglers
Any car that actually raced in the big races is a worthy project. Compare to your first project this is a wlk in the park.
Keep up the good work.


> The jewelry store was a sponsor for a while, maybe after the IMSA era. They
> used to call IMSA the International Marajana Suppliers Association in the late
> 70s. biggrin.gif Some big team principals went to jail for it. Have not found any
> dubage in the car so far. smoke.gif

> Most of the metal is really solid. The front and the floors are shot. What took
> me months when I was clueless I can do in hours now. All the work on the
> rockin 914 will pay off now, which was my plan all along (well, not really).
>
> John


Posted by: KELTY360 Nov 13 2010, 08:57 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 13 2010, 07:47 PM) *


Today my buddy Sean (the Prawn) was over and we built a stand to get the
car off the ground so we could remove the suspension and repair the front
end damage.

Attached Image


John


Here we go with the wood again....sheesh. confused24.gif laugh.gif

Great project and I like your perspective on the restoration but this time, build a metal rotisserie so it won't de-lam in the Florida humidity.

Sure are a lot of great build threads on TheWorld right now.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 13 2010, 08:58 PM

QUOTE


Now I understand the reason you are looking for my nose. I asked my dad about shipping it from his work and he said it should be no problem. You should have in by Thanksgiving if all works out with shipping will keep you posted!

Thomas


Thanks Thomas, that is great.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 13 2010, 09:04 PM

QUOTE(ME733 @ Nov 13 2010, 12:14 PM) *

......I think you have a great project there....and properly restored would be a welcome sight in vintage racing, which you would enjoy immensely....side note, I once looked for a formula super vee ( air cooled) which was in original condition., never found one. What you have found in that 914-4 is a diamond in the rough., and may well turn out to be valuable if you restore it properly. I would say that you should not do a "down and dirty" or "cheap" restoration. Take your time and do it properly. It could be way more valuable, restored, than you could imigine.


Murray,

I agree with you completely. Plan to do it right the first time while keeping it
period correct.

Thanks...John

Posted by: McMark Nov 13 2010, 11:58 PM

IMHO, just like a 914/6 it comes down to the VIN number. If you've got a proven race history, then I think as long as you rebuild it with the original bodywork, original paint scheme, etc you can't go wrong. There is obviously a lot of value and beauty in a 'survivor', but some cars just aren't in good enough condition to fill that role. For those cars that aren't 'survivors' a restoration is a reasonable solution.

I think you're doing great stuff here, and I can't wait to see the project evolve.

Posted by: ME733 Nov 14 2010, 02:26 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 13 2010, 10:04 PM) *

QUOTE(ME733 @ Nov 13 2010, 12:14 PM) *

......I think you have a great project there....and properly restored would be a welcome sight in vintage racing, which you would enjoy immensely....side note, I once looked for a formula super vee ( air cooled) which was in original condition., never found one. What you have found in that 914-4 is a diamond in the rough., and may well turn out to be valuable if you restore it properly. I would say that you should not do a "down and dirty" or "cheap" restoration. Take your time and do it properly. It could be way more valuable, restored, than you could imigine.


Murray,

I agree with you completely. Plan to do it right the first time while keeping it
period correct.

Thanks...John

Another thought,...get and collect every possable(historical) period photograph you can...of the car...Photograph all the original sponsors art work , decals, and lettering on the body panels...photograph the restoration. clean and reuse the major bits and pieces..(example)..The fuel cell can be rebuilt as new. I look forward to watching you restoration progress. .....Murray.

Posted by: URY914 Nov 14 2010, 05:52 PM

This car is more of a preservation not a true restoration. Which is probably the right thing to do.

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 14 2010, 06:06 PM

If the car had won races or a championship, or was piloted by a notable driver, I would say the only choice would be to do a precise restoration to its former condition as raced.
In this case I think the restoration only needs to be period correct and accurate from an external visual perspective.

A preservation would be to repair/retain as many original components as possible without alteration. I don't see doing it this way as adding value to this car. No one remembers the car except as an also ran.

Posted by: carr914 Nov 15 2010, 06:44 AM

John, I'm glad your at work on this biggrin.gif , can't wait til I see it again.

I wish I could have kept it, but I don't have the Mad Skills that you have, so it is in the right place. I think my friend over in New Smynra still has the Gotti's that I used to have that I know came off a different IMSA 914-6

Attached Image

And yes, the Jewelry store was a sponsor. John has a bunch of pictures ( & Logbook) of the car in period ( Would always like more)

Attached Image


Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 15 2010, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Dec 4 2009, 10:02 PM) *

Here is some motivation, I finished one of my IMSA GTU cars (the Meaney/ Hendricks 914) and passed tech! I am ready to race it next spring!



Glenn,

Very nice that you have Hendricks' old car. He started racing it when I was a teenager tagging along with my parents at PCA events. I remember when Ray brought that car to a Pocono driver's ed event to shake it down.

Scott

Posted by: racerbvd Nov 15 2010, 01:22 PM

If you have trouble with the sway bar, I may have one, I also have a set of era Correct wide Centerlines..
Attached Image
Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 15 2010, 02:13 PM


Thanks Byron. The bar is kind of rusty, I will post some pictures and see if people
think it is still usable. The arms and ends are good, just the bar.

I think I saw that yellow car on craigslist. I missed those wheels, it looked like
there were few good parts on that car.

I have some period gottis but they are maybe too flashy looking.

John

Posted by: racerbvd Nov 15 2010, 02:49 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 15 2010, 12:13 PM) *

Thanks Byron. The bar is kind of rusty, I will post some pictures and see if people
think it is still usable. The arms and ends are good, just the bar.

I think I saw that yellow car on craigslist. I missed those wheels, it looked like
there were few good parts on that car.

I have some period gottis but they are maybe too flashy looking.

John

I have used those wheels on a few rollers over the years, go back to when I was going to back date another 911 I had but not correct for my 71 Toad Hall sad.gif ..

I was glad to see it go, as I was ready to have a top welded on (I had an extra) and start looking for 73 RSR body parts..

Posted by: carr914 Nov 15 2010, 06:22 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 15 2010, 03:13 PM) *

I have some period gottis but they are maybe too flashy looking.

John


John, those Gotti's you have are more street related and a lot of Corvette owners used them. The "Correct" Racing Gotti's are those that I posted earlier

T.C.

Posted by: gms Nov 15 2010, 09:10 PM

Here is the Gottis that my IMSA car came with
Attached Image

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 16 2010, 05:28 AM

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 15 2010, 10:10 PM) *

Here is the Gottis that my IMSA car came with



Those are the wheels I remember from that car smile.gif

Posted by: gms Nov 16 2010, 08:26 AM

Starting on IMSA 914/6 number 2 (in the background) this winter, hoping to race it in the spring.
Attached Image

Posted by: 1968Cayman Nov 17 2010, 06:42 PM

The wooden stand will probably get you through the build. I built a wooden dolly for my 911 project just to move it in, out, in and across the garage while the jig was being assembled. Broke the minute before I slid the car onto the jig, but that was only because of the casters.

Keep working. It can't be that hot down there now.

Posted by: al weidman Nov 17 2010, 09:25 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 14 2009, 05:04 PM) *

Any updates John?

Here's an idea to update your Rocking Chair (Termites can be bad)

T.C.

Attached Image
u

Sorry, OT, TC is there a thread on that bus. I have had a bus, buses, in the family since 1966. Still have some. I would like a much longer look at that one. pray.gif

Posted by: carr914 Nov 18 2010, 06:06 AM

QUOTE(al weidman @ Nov 17 2010, 10:25 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jul 14 2009, 05:04 PM) *

Any updates John?

Here's an idea to update your Rocking Chair (Termites can be bad)

T.C.

Attached Image
u

Sorry, OT, TC is there a thread on that bus. I have had a bus, buses, in the family since 1966. Still have some. I would like a much longer look at that one. pray.gif


Al, I grabbed that picture some time ago, I think the thread might have been on Pelican, back when the stories started popping up about the "Race Taxi", this was a similar build.

Posted by: gms Nov 18 2010, 07:57 PM

John were the fenders all fiberglass or fiberglass on steel?

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 18 2010, 09:21 PM


Glenn,

They are pure fiberglass. They just left 2-3 inches around the edges to glue the
fiberglass to. All the fenders had been damaged and patched with layers of glass
and bondo.

I think we have the same Gottis. Mine have center caps and are painted
differently than yours but they are the same otherwise.

I was thinking of ditching the center caps because you are not allowed to run
them in races now and I am guessing it was the same back then. I was also
going to repaint them in a frosted silver color. Maybe I should paint the centers
gold tone like yours.

What is the history of your other IMSA 914-6?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 18 2010, 09:31 PM

Pedal area is well ventilated. This provides needed driver cooling in long races.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Can't wait to fix this. Been jonsing for some real welding.

chowtime.gif welder.gif chowtime.gif

Plus I can actually work under a roof. What luxury.

You can see in the background the first patch on this car that welded on
yesterday.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 18 2010, 09:40 PM

Been ordering a lot of parts lately. I got these reinforced rear control arms with
911 e-brake set up from Eric Shea a while back. They include Chris Foley's
e-brake cable extensions. They are just beautiful to look at.

I also got a set of Koni adjustable rear shocks with coil over perches.

Attached Image

The front struts also contain Koni adjustables, which are pretty shot. They
compress but don't spring back. I am thinking of having them rebuilt, I saw
a thread on here from someone about it, I think it was Eric Shea.

John

Posted by: gms Nov 18 2010, 10:20 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 18 2010, 10:21 PM) *

Glenn,

They are pure fiberglass. They just left 2-3 inches around the edges to glue the
fiberglass to. All the fenders had been damaged and patched with layers of glass
and bondo.

I think we have the same Gottis. Mine have center caps and are painted
differently than yours but they are the same otherwise.

I was thinking of ditching the center caps because you are not allowed to run
them in races now and I am guessing it was the same back then. I was also
going to repaint them in a frosted silver color. Maybe I should paint the centers
gold tone like yours.

What is the history of your other IMSA 914-6?

John

You can just mount new fiberglass now and save the originals
The gold centers would look nice and period correct.
The 2nd IMSA car ran in 1979 and 1980, DNF in 24 Hour of Daytona in 1980
(Photo by Jan Hettler)


Attached image(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: maf914 Nov 19 2010, 03:18 PM

QUOTE(gms @ Nov 9 2010, 06:14 PM) *

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 9 2010, 07:30 PM) *

Looking at the struts and sway bars on the car. Does anyone recognize this sway
bar arm? For some reason, RSR comes to my mind.

Attached Image

This looks like an aftermarket Charley Bar, it was somewhere around 22mm.


Actually those arms look exactly like the arms on the H&H bar on my car. My bar is 19mm, but they also came in 21mm. I still have the old data sheets and installation instructions. I have the H&H non-adjustable 16mm bar on the rear. These are pretty basic sway bar kits, not like the spiffy Tarret and Smart Racing bars.

Posted by: gms Nov 20 2010, 09:45 AM

John,
I went with a smaller fuel cell even though it is not the original, I do not need 22 gallons in a race and I was able to move it back 6" and lower it 4"

first picture 22 gallon fuel cell
second picture 12 gallon fuel cell
Attached Image
Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2010, 04:20 PM

Glenn,

I am doing the same thing, getting a 10 gallon fuel cell and adding more bracing
to the front of the car. I am sticking with dual fuel pumps in the same location
as before with dual relays controlled from switches in the cockpit.

I am keeping all the original fiberglass fenders and buying new ones.

Got new restoration design floors, including the special they are doing now on
the rear floor, reinforcing tracks, and seat mounts. A great deal, I ordered 2
sets (1 for the red car). I think it took less than a week between ordering and
having them on my front door. piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Just gotta flip the car and weld these puppies in. welder.gif

John

Posted by: carr914 Nov 21 2010, 06:42 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Nov 15 2010, 07:44 AM) *

I think my friend over in New Smynra still has the Gotti's that I used to have that I know came off a different IMSA 914-6

Attached Image



Never mind, I talked to my friend John, and he sold the wheels to someone in Australia.

Did you get a motor yet? My above friend John is now working for Brumos and can't do anything that competes, so he shut down his Porsche Parts business. He is selling everything. He wants to sell everything in one chunk, but get a hold of him, you never know. He goes by "9Werks" here on this board. Send him a pm and tell him I gave you the info. He is up in New Smyrna

T.C.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2010, 08:10 PM


T.C.

I have a 2.5 motor in the works.

I think the Gottis I have were also used in IMSA racing. I saw a similar set
with no tires on ebay for $2000. I scored getting these for $500 with new tires.

I am thinking of an early 911 for my next project. I have a friend who wants
the red 914 and wants to restore it. We'll see because I'd like to get rid of it
and make room for a new car...

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2010, 12:09 PM

Flip Your 914 the CSOB - Redux

Front suspension mount points are toast so I could not rock this car on my 914
rocker. I had to flip it a different way to replace the floor pans. The car has a
solid roll cage in it which gave me an idea.

Attached Image

I wasn't sure the garage was wide enough to allow for a roll over. Some careful
calculations followed. Car is 150 CM high times pi (mmm pie!) um carry the two,
think about 69, oh f*ck it! Just push it over and see what happens!!! happy11.gif

Attached Image

Just to make it look dramatic. Car is actually quite stable this way.

Attached Image

Catch it with an ATV jack. My wife actually helped with the whole thing.

Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2010, 12:12 PM

Gently lower the car down. Did not dent the side at all.

Attached Image

Best East Coast 914 Choppers glare.

Attached Image

Now the old floors can come out.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2010, 12:21 PM

Let's open this tin can!

Attached Image

MMM, tasty!

A little cleanup, a few spot welds to drill out and I will make MUSR 2015.

John

Posted by: carr914 Nov 23 2010, 02:57 PM

You are a Mad Dog !

I mean that in a good way smile.gif

Posted by: krazykonrad Nov 23 2010, 03:17 PM

Hope you can get it rolled back over when you're done! blink.gif

Great post and great project! Best of luck! popcorn[1].gif

Konrad

Posted by: Racer Chris Nov 23 2010, 05:40 PM

You nutcase! laugh.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2010, 05:44 PM

> You are a Mad Dog !

Its been mentioned before. happy11.gif

Drilled out the spot welds and removed the old floors. Had some help from Sean
and his friend Mike, which saved a lot of time.

Removed all the rusty tubes. The clutch tube is still in good shape. Will put a new
accelerator cable tube back in and weld up all the holes. Will reinforce the clutch
tube while I am in here.

Started cleaning the dash area which has lots of holes, rust and damage.

Much easier to get to this with the car upside down.

Attached Image

After the floors, still have to fix the hell hole, front trunk, and front fascia.

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 24 2010, 06:48 AM

Damn, kudos for rolling the car in your garage... biggrin.gif

Still have some work ahead I see..... but looking good!!

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 24 2010, 07:52 AM


Thanks Randall. The whole front of the car is rusted out or I could have used a
more traditional rotisserie. This was the only way I could figure out to get access
to the floors.

I am loving following your build. You are taking it to a level we don't usually
see on here.

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 24 2010, 11:05 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 24 2010, 02:52 PM) *

Thanks Randall. The whole front of the car is rusted out or I could have used a
more traditional rotisserie. This was the only way I could figure out to get access
to the floors.

I am loving following your build. You are taking it to a level we don't usually
see on here.

John


Thank's! but I'm following this one! Can't wait to see how you're going to fix up the nose. Mine has a front plate that needs to be replaced as well...showing some evidence of previous damage....something I cannot accept.....

keep up the good work and the creative chassis rollers.. biggrin.gif loving it!!

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 25 2010, 04:36 PM

Test fitting the new floors.

Attached Image

You can see how rotten the front of the car is.

Attached Image

Floors are mostly welded in!

Attached Image

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 25 2010, 04:42 PM

Here is the replacement piece that Terry (914xprs) cut off a parts car for me. He
had it to me less than a week after I talked to him about it, including shipping.
A good guy to work with.

Attached Image

It had a cut out for an air conditioner, which does not matter to me because I am
putting in a front oil cooler anyway. It will be fun surgically replacing the old stuff
with this. Terry also sent me a new headlight bucket to replace one which was
shot.

I will need to build some kind of jig to preserve the suspension mounting point
positions when I remove the front floor. I wanted to replace the floors first to
have something solid to weld the jig to.

John

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Nov 25 2010, 07:28 PM

Ask Hontec if you can borrow his. biggrin.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 26 2010, 08:45 AM


That thought had occurred to me.

pray.gif pray.gif pray.gif

I may actually have to use metal to build this jig so it does not warp.

I spent a lot of time derusting, treating, and etching primering the innards of the
tunnel. I also welded in a new accelerator tube before closing it up. These guys
loved to drill big holes everywhere so I have been welding up the ones I will not
need. Fortunately, I have the same size hole saw they used so I can make
patches for their holes easily.

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 26 2010, 09:58 AM

QUOTE(trojanhorsepower @ Nov 26 2010, 02:28 AM) *

Ask Hontec if you can borrow his. biggrin.gif



No problem, although the trip might be somewhat challenging.... biggrin.gif

Posted by: maf914 Nov 27 2010, 07:34 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 26 2010, 06:45 AM) *

I spent a lot of time derusting, treating, and etching primering the innards of the
tunnel. I also welded in a new accelerator tube before closing it up. These guys
loved to drill big holes everywhere so I have been welding up the ones I will not
need. Fortunately, I have the same size hole saw they used so I can make
patches for their holes easily.

John


John,

I am curious how the car suffered so much rust damage. Was it left in the open after its racing carrer ended? Salt climate? I always imagine old race cars stored in garages or warehouses, but the IMSA racer must have been somewhere wet. idea.gif

But, great project and great thread. Good luck and keep it going. welder.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2010, 08:49 AM

Eventually it was stored in a barn, but the front end must have been wet at some
Point for a long time. All the nooks and crannies were full of leaves and snail shells.
I must have found 100 snail shells in the car. When I opened up the longs to fix
A rust hole they were full of leaves.

The back end of the car is in good shape for a 914.

John

Posted by: carr914 Nov 27 2010, 01:07 PM

QUOTE(maf914 @ Nov 27 2010, 08:34 AM) *

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 26 2010, 06:45 AM) *



I am curious how the car suffered so much rust damage. Was it left in the open after its racing carrer ended? Salt climate? I always imagine old race cars stored in garages or warehouses, but the IMSA racer must have been somewhere wet. idea.gif



When I found it was in a Barn (really) with some other rusty cars ( Ferrari, Alfa, Renault). The guy was a real car guy and former racer, so I think he just had a thing for cool old cars that just happened to be rusty.

Prior to that it was in Miami ( lots of salt air) and didn't look like anything had happened since it last came off the track. I think it must have been stored outside, maybe under a carport.

The more that I see of it, the more I wish I had kept, but John has the skills to weld welder.gif that I don't have

T.C.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 29 2010, 07:15 PM

Built a jig out of scrap tubing to locate the front suspension points.

Attached Image

The jig is welded to the longs and floor pans. It is reinforced with some angle
iron to keep it from bending vertically.

Attached Image

I measured the suspension location points and they look like they are pretty
good. The jig was built using plates bolted to the suspension points. I left
the front cross member in because it does a good job of maintaining the
relative locations of 4 of the suspension points.

Attached Image

I welded the plates connecting to the suspension points last to minimize
any of the other welding warping it and moving their locations.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 29 2010, 07:27 PM

It is not pretty but I think it will do the job. It will only be in place about a week
or two.

Attached Image

Started cutting out the middle of the car up to the new floor pans.

Attached Image

Cut out the head light bucket that was badly rusted. Started cleaning up the
metal underneath to see what shape it was in.

Attached Image

The piece Terry (914xprs) sent me is in great shape with just a little surface rust.
He cut it perfectly up to where the replacement floors start.

Attached Image

The plan is to remove the center of the old car and replace it with the new piece.
I need to trim the car up to the pinch welds and the remove the opposite pieces
from the replacement.

This is major transplant surgery but it will restore the car to good metal in some
critical areas.

John

Posted by: McMark Nov 29 2010, 07:47 PM

Doing these huge panels can be so daunting before starting. But it really is satisfying to bring a trashed chassis back from the brink of death, and in retrospect it's never really that big of a job. (Isn't everything easier in retrospect?)

first.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 29 2010, 07:52 PM

Mark,

Yeah, its easy!

Why don't you fly out this weekend and help me put it in? biggrin.gif

Actually, for you, I am sure it would be easy after building the limo... welder.gif

I must admit I spent a lot of time pondering how much to transplant before figuring
it would be best to do as much as possible in one chunk.

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 30 2010, 04:39 AM

John

Are you going to replace parts along the original spotweld seams or are you going to cut up the old chassis to fit in the new part as it is?


Randall

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 30 2010, 06:28 AM

Randall,

I am going to replace it along the spot weld seams down the sides.

This should help with lining up the new piece accurately.

The two bulkheads and floors will get joined in the middle of the panels.

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 30 2010, 08:01 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 30 2010, 01:28 PM) *

Randall,

I am going to replace it along the spot weld seams down the sides.

This should help with lining up the new piece accurately.

The two bulkheads and floors will get joined in the middle of the panels.

John



That is indeed the best way, I was going to say if you would weld in the new piece like it lays on top of the old one, which would mean you'd have to cut out half of the inner fender along a long straight line, My advise would be to not cut in a straight line but make it stepped, gives a hell of a lot more shear strength..

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 30 2010, 09:50 AM

That would make a lot of sense. I am not a big fan of long butt welds in the middle
of panels when it comes to structural strength.

I am going to be adding some tubing from the front shock towers to the front
suspension points, and tie these tubes together across the front of the car similar
to how Jeff Hail did in his "Bringing out the dead" thread. I would be worried about
the strength of the front of the car after all this surgery without these tubes.

This picture was "borrowed" from Jeff's thread.

Attached Image

John

Posted by: Hontec Nov 30 2010, 10:51 AM

Good idea!! form and fuction.......looks really good...

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 30 2010, 08:18 PM

Spent 2 hours peeling off one side of the donor organ. This is the first time I used
the Blair Rotabroach. These things kick ass. I won't go back to anything else.
They are much more aggressive cutting and stay sharp better than any of the
other spot weld bits I have tried.

Attached Image

Still a lot of work left before the transplant can happen.

John

Posted by: Eric_Shea Nov 30 2010, 10:37 PM

That's a good "pick". Prep is everything. smilie_pokal.gif

Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Nov 30 2010, 11:03 PM

Nice work smile.gif

Posted by: arkitect Dec 1 2010, 08:57 PM

John,
Just found your build thread, cool project, you do good work.

I am always amazed at the innovative ways you come up with of turning a 914 upside down. Keep the picts coming.

Dave

Posted by: Racer Chris Dec 1 2010, 09:23 PM

You'll have a fuel cell and oil cooler to install as soon as you get the trunk reconstructed and the chassis flipped upright again John.
Here's what it looks like mocked up. The tubular braces will be ready shortly.
Everything appears to fit together just fine.
I have most of your fuel plumbing together now and the cooler/shroud shipped today.
We plumbed a similar oil cooler installation over the last couple days for a 3.2L conversion, so I have many details already worked out.


Attached Image

Posted by: watsonrx13 Dec 2 2010, 06:59 AM

Great job John... aktion035.gif

BTW what size Blair Rotabroach bit did you use?

-- Rob

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 2 2010, 08:16 AM


Rob,

I used a 5/16 because I found a 50% off deal on amazon on them. I always
search Amazon before buying anything because they are often the cheapest even
on stuff like tools and welding helmets. They had Mallory optical ignition modules
when all the race suppliers were out of stock for weeks.

I think 3/8 would be better because it allows you to be off center from the spot
weld a little more and still get it all.

I peeled the other half of the donor last night in 90 minutes.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 2 2010, 08:18 AM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Dec 1 2010, 08:23 PM) *

You'll have a fuel cell and oil cooler to install as soon as you get the trunk reconstructed and the chassis flipped upright again John.
Here's what it looks like mocked up. The tubular braces will be ready shortly.
Everything appears to fit together just fine.
I have most of your fuel plumbing together now and the cooler/shroud shipped today.
We plumbed a similar oil cooler installation over the last couple days for a 3.2L conversion, so I have many details already worked out.


Attached Image


Chris,

That is looking great. Thanks for all your help with this project.

Chris is making the front tubes for me like he did for Jeff Hail, plus the fuel and oil systems.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 5 2010, 07:13 PM

Test fitting the donor chunk.

Attached Image

It fits pretty well. My goal is to have it fit without any forcing. I want the suspension
mounting points to line up without any stress on the jig or the chunk. I have trimmed
it little by little and now the fit is pretty good.

I wonder if the original unit body parts would just fall together perfectly or if they had
to be clamped against their will to take they shape Karmann wanted? Does it help
to pre-tension the body panels or would that stress just be released over time as
the car went over bumps?

I got the oil cooler and shrouds from Chris yesterday, thanks!

John

Posted by: gms Dec 13 2010, 12:42 PM

John,
I bought the fenders for my project car from http://www.qrsfiberglass.com/catalog/ (cheap plug) and am very happy with the quality and the weight of them. I will take some pix for you

Posted by: sixnotfour Dec 20 2010, 11:06 PM

uh just was reading TC's project thread , You better get to work sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif

Posted by: carr914 Dec 21 2010, 05:13 AM

biggrin.gif

Posted by: tscrihfield Dec 28 2010, 04:51 PM

John,
Car is comming along great! Can't wait to see the nose on it, and all of that fine fab work in fitting it. Hope to see whats next soon!

Thomas

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 1 2011, 07:59 PM

I have been very busy on the car, just not posting much. Here is what has been
done. I spent several days fiddling with the donor chunk, with levels and a tram
gauge to try to get it as perfect as possible. Then I tack welded it in about 10
places on each side. These pictures are from after welding it in more when I
was re-checking it all.

Attached Image

I checked measurements from the suspension points diagonally and lengthwise
against each other. They are all within 0.5 mm of each other. My tram gauge is
only accurate to 2mm so I was happy with that result.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 1 2011, 08:09 PM

The tram gauge makes it easy to measure between two points on the car no
matter how uneven the body is between them.

Attached Image

I bought this gauge from http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/ just for this project.
It is too hard to measure between holes accurately with a tape measure and this
way I got to buy another cool tool. It should be good for checking front and
rear toe measurements as well.

When I was satisfied all was ok I plug welded all the drilled out spot weld holes.
The existing fender wells are very thin metal with lots of rusted through pin holes
and a load of holes the owners drilled everywhere.

For added strength, I seam welded a lot of the pinch weld between the donor
chunk and the original car. I don't plan on grinding all the welds totally flat. I
think that will weaken it too much and the original owners would never have
bothered with that.

Attached Image

Notice all the holes in the fenders. After welding the chunk in, I spent days and
days filling in all the rust holes and drilled holes I don't plan to use anymore.

John

Posted by: URY914 Jan 1 2011, 08:14 PM

welder.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 1 2011, 08:23 PM

Fixing some choice holes in the fender wells.

Attached Image

This was a tricky shape to fix. I used 18 gauge metal which is a pain to bend.
All the bends were done using one pair of pliers to hold the piece close to where
I wanted to bend it, then using another pair to grab it and bend. Once you start
having it welded on, you can shape it by hammering on it or hammering on a
screw driver to force the metal where you want to go.

Attached Image

Another similar hole.

Attached Image

Attached Image


Posted by: FourBlades Jan 1 2011, 08:26 PM

Welded up.

Attached Image

Lots of holes welded up. This area I did grind almost flush.

Attached Image

Lot of the same kind of holes on the other side.

John

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 1 2011, 09:38 PM

Just my .02.
While you have it up side over, weld all the pinch seams. Grind the 2 pieces flush with each other then weld the knife edge......that makes the metal as clean as possible and gives a good target to weld (dirty wetal gives blow backs). Dress up with a grinder to make the welds smooth.....no kerfs. All lap seams should be at least (2 inchers) skip welded tho I prefer full welds. .023 wire works best for this.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 1 2011, 11:47 PM

JP, I have been thinking of doing more seam welding as you describe.

I especially want to shore up the rear shock towers where they tend to crack.

John

Posted by: pete-stevers Jan 2 2011, 12:06 AM

this thread keeps me checking back!

Posted by: carr914 Jan 2 2011, 04:16 AM

John, Did you end up getting an engine?

Give me a call this week.

T.C.

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 2 2011, 09:08 AM

I did find some cracking on my car around the bottom of the rear towers......see pic. (not my car). This was before I put in the down tubes from the cage to towers.
The sheet metal in that area is really thin.

Also pictured is the srea over the axles & inner ear. The pinch seams marked are highly susceptable to cracking. The.023 wire I used was called "Easy Grind". It is not nearly as hard to grind (go figure) a normal 6 or 7000 serise wire. It also requires less amperage to run...less heat is gud for sheet metal.....don't weld up your cage with it tho. biggrin.gif


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Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: Lou W Jan 2 2011, 11:50 AM

Wow, this is amazing popcorn[1].gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 2 2011, 03:31 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Jan 2 2011, 03:16 AM) *

John, Did you end up getting an engine?

Give me a call this week.

T.C.


TC,

I'll call you at work tomorrow.

Blake is working on a 2.5 for me (with nickies!) that should be done soon.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 2 2011, 03:32 PM


Oops, duplicate post deleted.

Posted by: bam914 Jan 2 2011, 07:10 PM

It ran today. It did great. I will be emailing you a dyno graph and video tonight.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 23 2011, 06:06 PM

QUOTE(bam914 @ Jan 2 2011, 06:10 PM) *

It ran today. It did great. I will be emailing you a dyno graph and video tonight.


drooley.gif drooley.gif drooley.gif

Blake, the engine sounds and looks great.

Can't wait....

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 23 2011, 06:21 PM

Innovation or Abomination?

I can't decide. idea.gif

The pedal support structure on the car was nothing but rust and memories.
No one seems to have one on a parts car that is not totally shot that I could
find.

Mark posted a cool video a while back showing just how much the floor flexs
when you step on the brakes. Scary!

I decided to try to stiffen up the area from the pedal box back to one of the ribs
stamped in the floor. This is not stock, obviously, and kind of ugly, but it should
be stiffer than the stock arrangement. I can always grind it off later before I
take the car to Pebble Beach. av-943.gif

Mounting the pedal box. The bar and bolts got welded down later on.

Attached Image

Clean it all up for welding.

Attached Image

Fitting some half inch tubes and eighth inch plate under a 16 gauge piece.

Attached Image

Welded it all up.

Attached Image

I am thinking the "corner" formed by the part of the box next to the brake
cylinder will add a lot of stiffness. There is an eigth inch plate running the
length of the box that is plug welded under the top. The box is not the lowest
point on the front of the car so it does not reduce ground clearance.

What do you all think?

John




Posted by: FourBlades Jan 23 2011, 06:49 PM

Finally finished welding the floors. I took JPs advice and seam welded the
whole seam down the longs from the front of the car until past the transmission
dog bone intersection. Firsr ground it even and then welded it 2 inches at a
time. I welded only six or so sections a foot apart each day.

There is a lot of crap in those seams because the first weld session popped like
crazy. It was constant fireworks. Next day I welded the same sections again
and then I could get a good weld. Like I had to cook all the crap out of the seam
the first pass. Then I lightly ground the top and both sides. After that I filled in
any areas that had gaps, holes, or looked weak. Very time consuming.

Welded on the floor pan triangles and jacking points. Cleaned it all, etched
it, and epoxy primered it today, the first new paint on the car. piratenanner.gif

Attached Image

Made 16 gauge reinforcing plate for the anti-roll bar mount. The sheet metal on both
sides was torn in this area.

Attached Image

Everything will get seam sealed and primed again.

John

Posted by: J P Stein Jan 23 2011, 07:16 PM

Heh.....ah yes, good times welding the long seams. I did that laying on my back underneath it. Had simlar problems with crap in the joint blowing up, out , and all over me. Even wearing leathers I did manage to light myself on fire several times.
One particular glob went between my leathers & collar, down my chest till it stopped at my belt.....sizzling, cracking, burning hair all the way down.
No use getting up & trying to get free of that sumbitch.....just kept goin' confused24.gif

After I got a well filled bead on there I went over it with a 2 inch sanding disk (60-100 grit on a die grinder) smoothing everything out to eliminate kerfs (notches).

Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 23 2011, 07:50 PM

Weldong upside down sucks...

IPB Image

Coming along John. smilie_pokal.gif Getting a care package together for you. wink.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 23 2011, 09:13 PM

Eric - ouch! That sucks. I am going to need some Zimmerman rotors from you. I
plan to use the S calipers and V calipers (the calipers with the e-brakes will go on
my blue car). Maybe you can figure out what I need and PM me.

Getting burns trying to weld on new floor pans upside down is what lead me to
building the 914 rocker. I still have scars on my arms from the molten drips.

Notice the fireproof welding blankets on the wall. There is a reason those are
there now. Too many things set on fire by welding sparks.

John

Posted by: 914xprs Jan 24 2011, 06:40 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 23 2011, 07:13 PM) *

Eric - ouch! That sucks. I am going to need some Zimmerman rotors from you. I
plan to use the S calipers and V calipers (the calipers with the e-brakes will go on
my blue car). Maybe you can figure out what I need and PM me.

Getting burns trying to weld on new floor pans upside down is what lead me to
building the 914 rocker. I still have scars on my arms from the molten drips.

Notice the fireproof welding blankets on the wall. There is a reason those are
there now. Too many things set on fire by welding sparks.

John

WOW!!!! LOOKS GREAT!!! i am so happy that you recieved the donor piece from me. it came from a car that had no other usable metal as the longs and rear suspension were almost non existant.... so that piece was meant for this project...happy you could use it...ill keep watching as this goes on..doing great work... beerchug.gif

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Jan 24 2011, 08:29 AM

keep on truckin brave soul! I have enjoyed watching your fine work

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 24 2011, 09:11 PM

QUOTE

WOW!!!! LOOKS GREAT!!! i am so happy that you recieved the donor piece from me. it from a car that had no other usable metal as the longs and rear suspension were almost non existant.... so that piece was meant for this project...happy you could use it...ill keep watching as this goes on..doing great work... beerchug.gif



Terry,

That piece you sent me is so pristine and you cut it perfectly to mate up to the
floor pans. It made it way easier to replace the front end. Thanks again for
your help! first.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 6 2011, 10:23 PM

My buddy Sean has been helping me now and then to clean up the car. I am
helping him restore his 914 in exchange. His car needs floor pans, hell hole,
and paint.

Attached Image

I'll seam weld or skip weld all the tower seams.

Attached Image

Trying to clean up the whole underside so we can reflip this sucker and get
on with it.

Attached Image

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 6 2011, 10:31 PM

Picked up my engine from Blake and his father Al. It is a 2.5 /6 they got in an old
911 they bought a while back. It was marked as a T engine but made way more
power than it should have. Blake tore it down and saw it was built as a race
or hot rod engine. They rebuilt it with nickies because several barrels were
shot.

Here we are picking it out of Al's car.

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Stuffing it into my rusty old truck.

Attached Image

My wife showing the proper respect for our new engine.

Attached Image

Can't wait to have it in the car.

John

Posted by: sean_v8_914 Feb 6 2011, 10:39 PM

great thread! I enjoyed reading your blue resto also. nice work!

Posted by: stewteral Feb 6 2011, 10:50 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 21 2009, 06:54 PM) *
So what do you all think?

John


FourBlades:

BRAVO! I commend you on restoring such a great old race veteran! A car with that much history truly deserves a good restoration.

Terry

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 7 2011, 11:47 AM


Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement.

Now if I could just stop working OT I could make some real progress.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 12 2011, 07:27 AM

Sean having fun with the plasma cutter.

Attached Image

Cutting out a replacement front valence from a piece sent to me by Thomas.

Attached Image

Saving both head light buckets to use on the IMSA car.

Attached Image

I'll weld it on once we have the car flipped back upright.

John

Posted by: Hontec Feb 12 2011, 07:35 AM

WOW! great progress! looking really good those repairs!! Engine looks really nice too!

Posted by: bcheney Feb 12 2011, 08:16 AM

Looking good! Hope to see you next time I'm in town at my father in laws. We are so lucky to have wives that support our illness smile.gif

Posted by: Rleog Feb 12 2011, 08:46 AM

What do you call a wife who plants a kiss on your newly arrived engine?

Keeper

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 12 2011, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Rleog @ Feb 12 2011, 07:46 AM) *

What do you call a wife who plants a kiss on your newly arrived engine?

Keeper


You got that right!

Don't think I could ever go back to the non car appreciating kind!

I'd have to move a lot of parts out of our bedroom and living room. biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 13 2011, 11:31 AM

When I spoke of grinding your welds smooth this is an example of what I meant.
The rear wheel/axle arch is an often cracked area. You want to avoid "kerfs"....notches on the edges which concentrate stress. Smooth/faired welds are the cat's ass.


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Posted by: FourBlades Feb 13 2011, 08:16 PM


JP,

That looks nice and neat. I have been working towards that. Seam weld, sand,
go back and fill in any notches or porous welds. Repeat.

I finally started priming stuff to keep it from rusting while I work, but I know
I have more cleaning up to do.

John

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 14 2011, 10:01 AM

Sorry if I jumped ahead too much..... the primer kinda threw me.
I used a rattle can etch primer made by RM for spot work. It is compatible with any build primer/topcoat I threw at it.

At any rate, a picture is worth a thousand wurds. Here's an ear. I coud have done a better job of it, I guess, but geting out from underneath the SOB became a higher priority.


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Posted by: gms Feb 15 2011, 08:39 PM

1980 Sebring
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Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 3 2011, 10:19 PM

John,
Here's an example of a redundant fuel system for you to look at for ideas:
Attached Image

Note the duct to a fuel cooler on the right
Attached Image

Posted by: gms Mar 17 2011, 12:53 PM

Scott Carlberg found a picture of your car
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=116831

http://americanlemans.com/primary1.php?cat=news|15568


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Posted by: FourBlades Mar 17 2011, 02:40 PM


Whoo Hoo! piratenanner.gif aktion035.gif piratenanner.gif

I am so stoked to see another period picture of my car!!!

That is freaking awesome.

I would love more cool pictures like that.

Made a lot of progress on the car I need to post.

John

Posted by: gms Mar 17 2011, 03:16 PM

Take a look at this video, you might see it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGCI4ny8DEA


Posted by: FourBlades Mar 24 2011, 02:55 PM

I think I see a black 914 in that video and maybe a silver one.

I finished seam welding and cleaning up the longs.

Attached Image

Reflipped the car the easy way using an engine hoist.

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Attached Image

Attached Image

No drama this way.

John

Posted by: gms Mar 24 2011, 03:09 PM

It is amazing how just a coat of primer makes the car look so much better
Great Job!

The black 914/6 in the Sebring video is the Zulkowski car now owned by Doug Wright

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 24 2011, 03:15 PM


Hey Glenn,

I agree, once you get all the rust off and get it all one color it looks so much better.

I was wondering if the black 914 was your Hendricks car, wasn't it painted black at one time?

John

Posted by: gms Mar 24 2011, 03:27 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Mar 24 2011, 04:15 PM) *

Hey Glenn,

I agree, once you get all the rust off and get it all one color it looks so much better.

I was wondering if the black 914 was your Hendricks car, wasn't it painted black at one time?

John

The Meaney/Hendricks car was Conda Green prior to silver.
The Zulkowski car was black all the way back to 1975 in the according to the SCCA log books

Posted by: pete000 Mar 25 2011, 03:39 PM

Attached ImageI tuned up a couple of the small photos in Photoshop for fun..




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Posted by: FourBlades Mar 25 2011, 03:41 PM


Thanks Pete, that is a definite improvement!

John

Posted by: tscrihfield Mar 25 2011, 04:03 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Feb 12 2011, 07:13 PM) *

QUOTE(Rleog @ Feb 12 2011, 07:46 AM) *

What do you call a wife who plants a kiss on your newly arrived engine?

Keeper


You got that right!

Don't think I could ever go back to the non car appreciating kind!

I'd have to move a lot of parts out of our bedroom and living room. biggrin.gif

John


John,
The car looks great... Hope to have some serious progress on the body of my car when the weather breaks. Glad the nose piece was beneficial! Seems we have similar Wives... I think my wife wants the car done more than I do some days. It makes working on it more enjoyable though!
Keep up the great work!

Thomas

Posted by: J P Stein Mar 25 2011, 05:45 PM

Loookin' gud.

Posted by: carr914 Apr 14 2011, 01:40 PM

biggrin.gif

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Posted by: FourBlades Apr 14 2011, 06:00 PM


That must be Di Lella Racing, the builder of the car!

You are the man, TC.

Any info on the photo or event?

John

Posted by: carr914 Apr 15 2011, 04:27 AM

URY posted that picture on the 935 Thread on Pelican.

It has to be Daytona from the background

Posted by: gms Apr 15 2011, 09:14 AM

Dave Kutz sent it in to http://www.racingsportscars.com/photo/1977/Daytona-1977-11-27-095a.jpg
Daytona Finale 250 Miles 1977

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 10:50 AM

Been working for several weeks to rebuild the front end of the car.

Attached Image

The front fascia only comes up about half way and both head light buckets are
rusted badly.

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I have replacements that Thomas sent to me I will use to fix this.

Attached Image

Somehow I can't get the new section to fit the car. It is like it is too wide to fit
between the fenders. Took some measurements on my other 914s for comparison.

Attached Image

No wonder, this car is 2.5 cm narrower than it should be, it is 125.75 cm across
at the very front.

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Love the Area 51 welding jacket.

John



Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 10:57 AM

Get out the porta power and start pushing it back into shape.

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Push it, check it, push it, check it. Get frustrated by the spring back and really
crank it. Needed to cut through the fascia to the proper fit and bending. Push it
and now it stays where it should. Checked the diagonals and widths. Hammer
it here and there to shape it right.

Attached Image

Try fitting the pieces again.

Attached Image

Attached Image

Now everything fits well.

Attached Image

Nothing like a 4 ton hydraulic ram to ensure cooperation.

John




Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 11:05 AM

Tack weld the pieces on and check the fit with the hood. The hood fits well except
where they must have reshaped it to make up for the pushed in driver side. The
driver side fender was replace at some point by brazing on a piece from a green
car.

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Check the fit of the headlights and covers.

Attached Image

It all fits decent. The gaps are a little big but it is good enough for a race that
has been wrecked multiple times.

Fully welded it a few inches at a time by cutting through the overlapping pieces
and filling in the kerf.

Clean it up and prime it. I ran out of one color of rattle can self etch and started
in with another color part way through.

Attached Image

Starting to look pretty good.

Attached Image

This was a pretty major effort to reconstruct but I am happy with how it turned
out.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 11:11 AM

Ha ha remember what I started with:

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Gives me the willies to remember that.

John

Posted by: carr914 Apr 22 2011, 11:16 AM

John, did you see that someone is selling an IMSA front bumper in the Classifieds?

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 11:30 AM


TC,

Yes I did notice that. I am going to check if the one that came with the car is
usable. I am now at the point where I can determine if it will work.

I'd rather use the original piece if I can.

John

Posted by: gms Apr 22 2011, 12:45 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Apr 22 2011, 12:30 PM) *

TC,

Yes I did notice that. I am going to check if the one that came with the car is
usable. I am now at the point where I can determine if it will work.

I'd rather use the original piece if I can.

John

This is totally fixable! reuse it!


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Posted by: PeeGreen 914 Apr 22 2011, 03:24 PM

Have you ever heard of Vice Grips? blink.gif I hope you own stock happy11.gif

Your work is ever impressive beerchug.gif Awesome seeing this come together aktion035.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2011, 03:37 PM

You can never have enough clamps, I actually bought a few more really wide ones
for this project.

Things made out of fiberglass can usually be repaired if you don't mind the itching.
The fenders and bumper had all been repaired multiple times by globbing
on more kitty hair and bondo. I will grind them down to the correct thickness
again and repair them the right way, with 12:1 feathering of holes and cracks and
then adding new cloth. I used to shape and glass surfboards about 20 years ago,
where does the time go?

John

Posted by: Cairo94507 Apr 23 2011, 07:44 AM

Just WOW! I love the work you are doing to save this piece of Porsche history. Very nice indeed.

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Apr 23 2011, 08:29 AM

John,

Great work as always! I was just wondering... what was the point of welding in two large pieces instead of one large one? I am guessing it was to preserve as much of the original car as possible, but would like to hear your thoughts on that.

Thanks and keep up the good work.

-Peter

Posted by: gms Apr 23 2011, 09:52 AM

John,
this shelf/support is not on the 1971 cars, get it out of there biggrin.gif


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Posted by: gms Apr 23 2011, 09:56 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Apr 22 2011, 04:37 PM) *

Things made out of fiberglass can usually be repaired if you don't mind the itching.
The fenders and bumper had all been repaired multiple times by globbing
on more kitty hair and bondo. I will grind them down to the correct thickness
again and repair them the right way, with 12:1 feathering of holes and cracks and
then adding new cloth. I used to shape and glass surfboards about 20 years ago,
where does the time go?

Glad to hear this, that bumper is fairly unique.

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 23 2011, 11:58 AM


Thanks for all the comments!

Peter: I had two pieces from two different cars. I think this made it easier to get
them in. Trying to get one piece with the headlight buckets attached and all the
lower trunk stuff probably would not have worked. The car narrows the closer
it gets to the front, so you can't slide a piece in from the front without some
major cutting of one side. I actually cut the fascia in half vertically to make
fitting it easier, so it was three major pieces put in.

Glenn: I left the reinforcement on until I fully weld all the new stuff to try to
maintain the original shape. I plan to remove it once I start fitting the front
oil cooler.

John

Posted by: SirAndy Apr 23 2011, 12:09 PM

first.gif

Very nice work indeed!

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 23 2011, 08:18 PM

Been having some computer issues and finally upgraded to windows 7 which has
allowed me to eradicate all viruses.

Been working on finishing up the engine bay. Welded on Tangerine Racing rear
suspension ear reinforcement plates and made some removable chassis braces.
The longs were cracked on the outside around the suspension points so this
should help stabilize them.

Attached Image

Those are 1/8 plates welded on the firewall. I put the attachment point down low
where the floor pan helps reinforce the firewall.

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I added some 16 gauge plating to the top and bottom of the suspension mounting
point where the brace attaches. I am missing a jam nut on this brace.

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I've got some smaller heim joints and tubes to build reinforcements for the carrier
on the other end of the suspension mounting point. That should help stabilize the
other end of the rear arm and keep the toe in from changing.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 23 2011, 08:30 PM

Cut out the rusty hell hole.

Some cool rat parties went down inside this race car.

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Cleaned out the rat pad using latex gloves which were promptly tossed.

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Took some recon photos of the inside.

Does not look too bad actually.

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This will get treated and painted before sealing it back up.

John

Posted by: ellisor3 Jun 23 2011, 08:31 PM

John,

That looks fantastic, you have balls the size of church bells to take on that project. beerchug.gif

Can't wait to see it finished. Are you painting it back to its racing colors?

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 23 2011, 08:39 PM

Been working on the tunnel and cross brace. Basically all the metal within an inch
of the floor is completely rusted away. Cut this all back to solid metal and patched
in new pieces.

Attached Image

I thought about trying to get a perfect tunnel from a donor and buy new, repro
cross braces and inner firewall pieces. I could have made the interior look close
to brand new stock but the guys who built this car originally would never have
done that. I plan to just have a bare metal, painted interior where all the welded
panels will show. I could try to grind all the welds smooth, but again, that was
never what the original builders did.

They did race the car with factory sound deadening tar in place. That all went with
the old floor pan and it got stripped off the tunnel. I wonder why they did not
bother with that obvious and easy weight reduction?

Should I replace the factory tar to be closer to how it was in the day? I have no
idea but I am leaning towards no.

Welded on a new fender to replace the trashed one. Terry (914xprs) supplied
this cherry piece for me.

Attached Image

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jun 23 2011, 08:44 PM

QUOTE(ellisor3 @ Jun 23 2011, 07:31 PM) *

John,

That looks fantastic, you have balls the size of church bells to take on that project. beerchug.gif

Can't wait to see it finished. Are you painting it back to its racing colors?


Yes, I plan to paint it the way it was when it raced at Sebring, which is close
to how it looked when I got it, minus some jewelry store sponsorship.

I have been loving your build thread. What a great color and a great motor. Joe
is doing some really nice work on it.

That will be one of the best 914s around pretty soon now.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 23 2011, 08:52 PM

Cleaning up the a-arms I noticed something new to me, maybe you all can tell
me if this is a common thing.

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The rubber bushings on the a-arms were replaced with solid aluminum bushings.

They fit very precisely and once cleaned and oiled they spin freely on the a-arm
with no play in them. There are no grease fittings, which seems like a problem.
Those are 22 mm torsion bars.

Attached Image

Did someone make these and sell them back in the day or were these made
just for this car? Anyone know?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 25 2011, 08:38 AM


No one has seen solid bushings like I found on the car?

There are no part numbers on them so someone could have just made these on
a lathe.

John

Posted by: dion9146 Jun 26 2011, 06:29 AM

Great build John. Can't comment on the solid bushings, but you can be sure they are just about as stiff as you are going to get for front bushings! Are the rears the same?

I might be tempted to keep them and add grease fittings as you noted.

Dion

Posted by: gms Jun 26 2011, 07:40 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jun 25 2011, 09:38 AM) *

No one has seen solid bushings like I found on the car?

There are no part numbers on them so someone could have just made these on
a lathe.

John

looks interesting, I have never seen it before. it is not a whole lot different than the Elephant Racing PolyBronze Control Arm Bearings. I would put Zerk fittings and have them grooved for grease penetration.

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 26 2011, 07:57 AM


Are the Elephant Bushings actually solid? I thought there was a polyurethane
lining inside the bronze?

These things are solid aluminum.

I plan to reuse them if they don't bind.

I guess I could drill some holes and add zerks. Not sure how I would groove
the inside of the bushings. Like cutting an inside thread, maybe it could be
done on a lathe.

I went on a sand blasting and painting frenzy yesterday and restored most of the
front suspension parts.

I have not looked closely at the rear control arms yet. I did notice they had the
driver's side rear spring one notch higher than the passenger side. I am
guessing this is an attempt at corner balancing?

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Jun 26 2011, 08:20 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jun 26 2011, 09:57 AM) *

Are the Elephant Bushings actually solid? I thought there was a polyurethane
lining inside the bronze?

Elephant Bushings are bronze bearing sleeves surrounded by a urethane layer in between the sleeve and the support housing.
QUOTE

These things are solid aluminum.

I plan to reuse them if they don't bind.

Thats the key.
As long as they don't bind and you use bearing grease they should work great.
QUOTE

I guess I could drill some holes and add zerks. Not sure how I would groove
the inside of the bushings. Like cutting an inside thread, maybe it could be
done on a lathe.

Easiest would be with a carbide burr in an end grinder. After you locate the zerk hole, create a spiral groove with a small ball shaped burr made for aluminum.

Posted by: carr914 Jun 26 2011, 08:50 AM

Here are the Elephants

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Posted by: FourBlades Jun 27 2011, 02:32 PM


Rear control arms appear to have the same solid bushings.

I did not extract them yet, I was busy blasting and painting the rear suspension
yesterday.

John

Posted by: tscrihfield Jun 27 2011, 07:39 PM

Love this build! Cant wait to see it moving!

It was good to see that front end come together. Looks like a lot of what I sent was used! Great job fab'n it all in. sawzall-smiley.gif welder.gif

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Sep 18 2011, 06:52 PM

Update please John.

poke.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2011, 01:26 PM

Been busy on fine tuning my blue 914, insulating and adding AC to my garage, and going to DEs at Palm Beach, Roebling, and Sebring all in the last couple months. I am working on getting my SCCA racing license.

Byron (racerbvd) helped me get into the Dark Side DE at Roebling at the last minute, which was a really fun and well run event. Great party with live music and a lot of cool people and cars. Byron is a really friendly and helpful guy in person who has been in the 914 scene since the beginning.

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Now I am back to getting this IMSA car done. I did a lot of boring sheet metal work to the front of the car that I won't bother detailing. Cut out the late model front end reinforcement and started fitting the oil cooler and shroud.

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Packaging all the stuff that has to go in the front trunk is going to be interesting.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2011, 02:05 PM

Here are the front trunk tubes, fuel cell, and oil cooler plumbing. This will all work but it makes running the -12 oil lines tight.

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Here is the oil cooler and thermostat plumbing concept. The thermostat will be mounted a little higher than shown. The oil return line was originally run through the driver long and then through the boxed section under the gas tank. I'll do it the same way. The line from the thermostat will go to the oil tank. I'll have to cut out part of the reinforcing plate under the head light bucket to make room for the oil lines to the cooler. It will be tight but it should work ok.

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I will close up the excess hole in the floor of the trunk. I will probably use stainless wire mesh over the radiator outlet hole.

The oil cooler is the Setrab unit many people use. It will be rubber mounted and shrouded using two fiberglass pieces. I read about 25 threads on oil coolers before putting this plan together. beerchug.gif

Any comments would be great before I JB weld it all together. biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: Series9 Nov 21 2011, 05:20 PM

This is a great build. Please let me know if you need anything.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2011, 06:24 PM


Thanks Joe. I think about dropping all my cars off at your shop and just saying, call me when they are done. biggrin.gif

It may come to that...

John

Posted by: carr914 Nov 21 2011, 06:27 PM

I wpuld put the T-Stat in the rear.

Also check with HSR, SVRA, PCA about the Legality of the curved front bars

Good seeing you at Sebring, sorry I didn't get much time - mega busy

Posted by: Series9 Nov 21 2011, 06:37 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 21 2011, 07:24 PM) *

Thanks Joe. I think about dropping all my cars off at your shop and just saying, call me when they are done. biggrin.gif

It may come to that...

John



That would be cool, but you're doing just fine.

Posted by: bam914 Nov 21 2011, 08:29 PM

Are you going to do the double school at Roebling to get your SCCA license? I might be down there if my friend goes to get his.

Posted by: TurbOH Brad Nov 21 2011, 08:54 PM

This is, by far, my favorite build thread on this forum.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 21 2011, 09:29 PM

Hey TC:

It was great seeing you at Sebring. I had a fantastic time and was told I am about ready to solo. I am done with the stock brakes on my 996 and am thinking of using pagid orange pads next time.

Remember that the original oil tank on this car is in the front where the fuel tank normally is. Doesn't that kind of necessitate putting the thermostat in the front?

Why would curved bars in the front trunk not be legal? I was looking at a 914 at Roebling that is used in VCDA racing that has no bars in the front trunk at all. VCDA is the series I am thinking of doing. There are several central florida people running 914s and 911s in that series. I admit to ignorance of the various series rules and need to study them.

Blake: That is what I am hoping to do. My wife is also going to do it. We want to do as many track days as we can before that.

Thanks for all the comments.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2011, 10:08 AM

Working on finishing the outlet hole for the radiator. Did some relief cuts so I could flatten the trunk floor and attach it to a stiffening strip.

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Reinforcing the edges with 1/8 by 1 inch strips. This will give me something to bolt the shroud to and will strengthen the edges of the hole. Closed up the back half of the old air conditioning hole.

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Also welded in the pads for the front trunk tubes.

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The outlet opening is 7x20 inches which is 140 square inches. The radiator is 4x18 inches or 72 square inches, which is close to the 2 to 1 ratio recommended for radiator air flow.

This only took all day yesterday. smile.gif

John

Posted by: Socalandy Nov 23 2011, 10:44 AM

Looks great!! and when the missing parts and holes are fixed on my project it will be time to cut out my front trunk

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 23 2011, 12:37 PM


Just do what I do before cutting anything:

Measure twice and pray three times.

John

Posted by: cheshirecat Feb 10 2012, 02:47 AM

cheer.gif This is really exciting news, when I told my dad he showed up on google, I wasn't yet a member...so I was unaware of your project. My dad is Bob Zulkowski, and I spent many days wearing the race team shirt and dusting that car when it was being shown for display purposes. It woke me up early many mornings. I've never thought about what happened to all of dads old racecars as he is presently on a big boat in the virgin islands, but now I can't help but wonder where all of it's predecessors are as well!

Best of luck to you and your wallet...my first car was a 914 which I paid a cool 3 grand for back in 1986 so I'm a fan for sure. I look forward to seeing how it goes, and you can always ask if you have questions, I'm sure if he can remember (lol) he'd love to talk your ear off about this baby. I'll see if I can dig up any photos of it in better condition as well.

Cathy Z.

Posted by: carr914 Feb 10 2012, 04:43 AM

Cathy welcome.png

I know who you Dad is, but this car wasn't one of his - this a Priviteer car run out of South Florida, DiVella Racing

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Posted by: Series9 Feb 10 2012, 06:08 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Feb 10 2012, 05:43 AM) *

Cathy welcome.png

I know who you Dad is...





That sounds dirty.... shades.gif

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 10 2012, 07:47 AM

Cheshirecat - Carthy- Holy crap! I knew your dad and Troy Powell pretty well and was a regular at Metal Craft with my first 914, ('73 2.0 in sepia brown that your dad did a smoked stripe on just like his six had) and my 2nd six. They worked on that car and ultimately did the 3.0 transplant on my 2nd 914-6 when the original 2.0 punched a rod through the side. I recall your dad's black '71 914-6 quite well and Troy's blue GT flared '70. I am glad to hear your dad is enjoying life on a boat in the tropics. That was always a fun shop to go and hang out.

Posted by: gms Feb 10 2012, 09:15 AM

QUOTE(cheshirecat @ Feb 10 2012, 02:47 AM) *

cheer.gif This is really exciting news, when I told my dad he showed up on google, I wasn't yet a member...so I was unaware of your project. My dad is Bob Zulkowski, and I spent many days wearing the race team shirt and dusting that car when it was being shown for display purposes. It woke me up early many mornings. I've never thought about what happened to all of dads old racecars as he is presently on a big boat in the virgin islands, but now I can't help but wonder where all of it's predecessors are as well!

Best of luck to you and your wallet...my first car was a 914 which I paid a cool 3 grand for back in 1986 so I'm a fan for sure. I look forward to seeing how it goes, and you can always ask if you have questions, I'm sure if he can remember (lol) he'd love to talk your ear off about this baby. I'll see if I can dig up any photos of it in better condition as well.

Cathy Z.

Welcome to the club Cathy!
I use to own your fathers car, it is now owned by Doug Wright.
Here is a link about the car:

http://www.914world.com/roadglue/forum/showthread.php?t=768


Posted by: FourBlades Feb 10 2012, 09:46 AM

QUOTE(cheshirecat @ Feb 10 2012, 01:47 AM) *

cheer.gif This is really exciting news, when I told my dad he showed up on google, I wasn't yet a member...so I was unaware of your project. My dad is Bob Zulkowski, and I spent many days wearing the race team shirt and dusting that car when it was being shown for display purposes. It woke me up early many mornings. I've never thought about what happened to all of dads old racecars as he is presently on a big boat in the virgin islands, but now I can't help but wonder where all of it's predecessors are as well!

Best of luck to you and your wallet...my first car was a 914 which I paid a cool 3 grand for back in 1986 so I'm a fan for sure. I look forward to seeing how it goes, and you can always ask if you have questions, I'm sure if he can remember (lol) he'd love to talk your ear off about this baby. I'll see if I can dig up any photos of it in better condition as well.

Cathy Z.


Cathy,

It seems like I have a different car from yours but I bet you all knew the folks who owned mine, Manuel Cueto and John Di Lella. Maybe you all have some period pictures that include both of our cars. Di Lella racing went on to race 911s after selling their 914. Maybe you all owned this car after John sold it? I would like to talk to you all about it sometime.

This is one of those projects you have to do yourself unless you are loaded because of the hours it takes. My friend Sean and I have spent 350 hours on the work so far and are only half done. We just chip away at it when we can. smile.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 10 2012, 10:00 AM

Fixing some holes using the HF shrinker/stretcher set. I wanted one of these tools for a while and as soon as I could think of a reason I needed them I picked up a set. I fixed some curved areas with them and they turned out well.

Found some graph paper card stock that makes great templates.

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Used the stretcher on the lip to curve the piece. You have to stretch a little, check the fit, stretch a little, check the fit, hammer some to keep the lip flat, etc. Stretcher jaws leave some marks you can hammer flattter and sand if it matters.

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Check the fit in the gas tank area. This was hopelessly rusted so I cut back to "better" metal.

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Welded and partly ground down. Need to dremel the hard to reach areas. Leaning over to do this repair for two hours was probably the hardest part. Some parts had to be welded up from under the dash which was also fun.

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I've been working on grinding down and cleaning up areas welded by Sean and I. I hate spending the time but I think it is worth it. I will clean up the welds I made to repair rust damage and try not to go down the slippery slope of over restoring.

Welds done by the original owners will be left in their original state. They never ground any welds as far as I can tell.

John



Posted by: FourBlades Feb 10 2012, 10:46 AM

Fixing the rusted out rain gutter using the shrinker/stretcher set.

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Cut a piece for the patch.

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Bend it using the brake I built. I wanted a small one for bending 16 gauge and made this out of scraps plus a few HD bought pieces.

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Bend it to the right shape using the stretcher. This has a variable curve that takes a some trial and error to get right.

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Hammer it a little to keep it flat.

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Make some relief cuts and bend up the inner edge. I used the cut off rusty piece as a guide for the width.

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Test fit.

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Stand back and check the arc of the gutter. This is part way through adjusting the
arc. It was way too low at first and I am glad I realized I needed to check this
before welding. Most of the time you need to think about 3 steps ahead to avoid
screwing something up.

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Tack the ends, then the middle, then in between little by little.

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Weld up the relief cuts by clamping a thick copper piece behind the weld.

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Grind it carefully, weld some imperfections, grind some more, then sand using 120.

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Still more detail grinding to go.

John

Posted by: cheshirecat Feb 13 2012, 03:17 PM

I realized that after I posted when I saw a different shot, but you can't 'unpost'...at least I couldn't figure out how to!

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 30 2012, 10:42 PM

Been working on mounting the oil cooler and fuel cell.

I have the oil cooler mounted, thermostat mounted, and front tubes mocked up.

The fuel cell could be mounted in a framework of 1 inch angle iron represented by
the cardboard strips. It would be attached by the lip to the bulkhead using the
original aluminum angle used by the original builders for that purpose. It would
have two steel straps all the way around width wise to hold it in place.

I would put some additional short tubes under the halfway point of the lower tubes.
Getting everything to fit around these trunk tubes has been a real PIA but I think it
will be worth it. idea.gif

Attached Image

The fuel cell will clear the oil cooler shroud this way. Once the cross tube is welded
in place it will not be possible to remove the oil cooler shroud anymore as is. I am
thinking of sectioning the shroud and holding it together with aluminum strips and
bolts or making a multiple piece one from metal sheet.

Also considering making the cross tube removable, although I have not seen any
good or easy solutions for that.

John

Posted by: Cracker Mar 31 2012, 08:21 AM

Just saw this thread, very impressive you'd take on such a project! Can't wait to see it completed and maybe run with it too.

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 31 2012, 07:41 PM

Hey thanks Cracker! I'd like to get to Road Atlanta at some point.

Started mocking up the fuel cell install.

Attached Image

Notched some stubby legs to support the cross tube. These will sit on welded pads.

Attached Image

Fuel cell fits in nicely.

Attached Image

Playing with the fuel pick up fittings and filters. With two of everything there are a
lot of fuel system parts. Will use an angle to attach the lip of the cell the bulkhead.
Will use square tubes across the top attached to straps going around the angle
irons on the bottom. That will provide something to mount the filters to.

Attached Image

Lot of head scratching went into getting this far.

John

Posted by: racerbvd Apr 1 2012, 12:16 PM

John,
You guys coming to the Dark Side DE next month??

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 3 2012, 08:28 PM

Byron,

I hate to miss it but too busy with many things.

I want to bring my blue 914 next time but it needs an oil cooler and roll hoop.

John

Posted by: URY914 Apr 3 2012, 08:56 PM

John,

Don't know if you knew about this video but your car is shown at about the 12:21 mark and 14:46.

Sebring 12 Hours 1977...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kks-yGG_6g

Posted by: DEC Apr 4 2012, 02:21 AM

Nice work
beerchug.gif drunk.gif

Posted by: ChrisVCR Apr 4 2012, 08:05 AM

Great build!

Posted by: Series9 Apr 4 2012, 08:42 AM

I love this thread. smile.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 6 2012, 08:24 AM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 3 2012, 07:56 PM) *

John,

Don't know if you knew about this video but your car is shown at about the 12:21 mark and 14:46.

Sebring 12 Hours 1977...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kks-yGG_6g


That is awesome, never seen that movie before!

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Apr 6 2012, 10:26 AM

That video was awesome! So cool to see your car in there John!

Posted by: maf914 Apr 8 2012, 10:59 AM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 3 2012, 06:56 PM) *

John,

Don't know if you knew about this video but your car is shown at about the 12:21 mark and 14:46.

Sebring 12 Hours 1977...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kks-yGG_6g


Paul, Thanks for linking that video. Great stuff!

And we bitch about today's coverage of sports car racing! laugh.gif

Posted by: URY914 Apr 8 2012, 06:49 PM

QUOTE(maf914 @ Apr 8 2012, 09:59 AM) *

QUOTE(URY914 @ Apr 3 2012, 06:56 PM) *

John,

Don't know if you knew about this video but your car is shown at about the 12:21 mark and 14:46.

Sebring 12 Hours 1977...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kks-yGG_6g


Paul, Thanks for linking that video. Great stuff!

And we bitch about today's coverage of sports car racing! laugh.gif


It pays to do a Youtube search every few months. Kinda like fishing. Sometimes nothing; sometimes you get one.

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2012, 08:01 PM

I decided to build a sheet metal oil cooler shroud so I could make the top in two
pieces. This will allow the oil cooler to be cleaned out or replaced with the bracing
tubes welded in place. Spent a long time making an ugly looking template for a side.

I copied the shape of the fiberglass oil cooler shroud.

I had to add tape to several edges where I cut too much off to start with.

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First side bent up and fitted.

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Bending up the second side. These pliers are really useful for this kind of work and you
can buy them at Home Depot, etc.

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Hammering on the bend to make it crisper.

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Both sides screwed down.

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Laying out the first top piece.

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Cut it out with the power sheers. They tend to get hung up sometimes and screw
up your cuts. I had to straighten out some of these edges with the grinder.

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Screwed it together.

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It turned out pretty well. I will replace the sheet metal screws with welded nuts
later on.

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This took several days but I am glad I took the time to do it.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 22 2012, 08:10 PM

Continued work on mounting the fuel cell. Following the approach used by several
fuel cell makers to strap down a cell. Bent up some 1 1/4 by 1/8 steel strips.

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The straps go all the way around the fuel cell and the frame on which it sits. Bolted
through the lip of the cell at the top. The frame the fuel cell is sitting in is a welded
rectangle of one inch angle iron. The straps will be welded to the frame on the
bottom.

A additional angle will be used to bolt the back lip to the bulkhead.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 1 2012, 12:55 PM

Tired of the endless work on the front end, I decided to fix some holes in the engine bay including the hell hole.

Notice the long is cracked in the rear wheel arch. This is the kind of crack the GT stiffening kit is meant to prevent.
Interesting that it cracked even with (or maybe because of) the bars tying into the rear shock towers.

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Cut out rusted metal where the battery tray attaches on the other side.

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Make a template by sticking painters tape over the hole from the other side.


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Posted by: FourBlades Jul 1 2012, 01:09 PM

Stick the tape to a piece of metal and cut it out. Easy to get a good fit this way.

Tack it being careful to align the edges perfectly flat. If the patch sticks in or out by
any appreciable amount it is impossible to grind the seam flat.

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Keep adding tacks until it is fully welded. Notice the burns and dirt around each tack
weld. Once this side is fully welded, I turn up my welder and hit any parts of the other
side that did not burn through fully. Doing this before grinding the first side gives more
metal to absorb the weld heat.

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Every time I do this I learn something more. This time I stopped now and then and wire
wheeled the seam to clean the spatter from previous sets of tacks. This seems to keep
the popping and blow through down.

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Made a 16 gauge patch for the hell hole. This is trickier to make than it looks because
of the bends and the way the long curves. Welded some backers to the top and
bottom to help align the patch and allow a hotter weld seam there. Makes it much
easier to fix an area where you can't access the back.

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Welded and ground down.

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The bodywork on this car is just never ending...there is still more.

John


Posted by: bcheney Jul 1 2012, 01:54 PM

Very nice work John. I love checking in on your project and seeing what you fab up next. Keep up the great work!

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 1 2012, 02:12 PM


Thanks Brian, I am ready for the mechanical assembly but there is a lot of bodywork still to do...

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jul 1 2012, 08:38 PM

John,
You're metal work continues to impress me and gets better and better. The shroud looks killer. My main area of focus is body work, so let me know if you would like some free labor!

BTW - I got the Tangerine kit installed today. Its a different car now. Thank you, thank you again. I'll post pics soon.

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 14 2012, 03:34 PM

Hey George, glad the parts helped out. I am going to want some help when the
epic reassembly of this car finally arrives. smash.gif beer.gif

My trusty dewalt grinder quit on me the other day after 5 years and 2 cars of
fearless grinding. I was wondering what the deal was until I noticed the cord
was on fire near the body of the grinder. biggrin.gif

Put out the fire and installed a new cord and its back on the job.

Fixing the tail. The sheet metal underneath the old fiberglass fenders is in really
bad shape. All chewed up and distorted. It looks like the builders bashed in the
fenders as needed and filled them with glass. I fixed a bunch of pin holes and
cracks in addition to this work.

I don't really want to buy replacement steel rear fenders, which have to be getting
rare, just to cut most of them off. When I get the new fiberglass ones I'll decide
what I am going to do. Making these decisions is not easy and involves a lot of
angst.

Already built up the bottom of the corner with a few bits.

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Fixed some more cracks and holes after this.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jul 14 2012, 03:38 PM

Fixing the taillight area.

Sketch out the new piece.

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Cut n bend.

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Weld n grind.

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Fits decent. The front corner of the fender is pretty tweaked so it is not perfect.

Losing patience with how bad the metal is on the fenders so calling it a day.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 14 2012, 03:57 PM

Switching gears here to work on something besides welding and grinding.

I have asked some of the experienced folks what kind of seats to run in the car.

They have given me some great ideas and I hate to keep bothering the same
people all the time so I thought I would throw this out for the world to help me out.

I would like to race the car in vintage racing, do some DEs, and maybe some
vintage rallys. The Targa Newfoundland is my fantasy goal.

I can either use a vintage looking seat, like this great aluminum Kirkey 41500
vintage seat.

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A less vintage looking seat but one that is probably safer would be this Kirkey
47500 seat.

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Don't be shy now what do you all think?

John

Posted by: kshighlander Jul 14 2012, 04:01 PM

Go for safety over looks in that dept. I vote!

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jul 14 2012, 04:20 PM

I'm really getting into SVRA and historics and from what I know, no one looks down upon modern safety equipment. Fuel cells, HANS devices and seats are just some of the many areas that people upgrade with good reason. I vote the tall seat-back. I sincerely doubt if you were to track it at all that you would be able to get by with the low-back. Not to mention, its just a bad idea in general I think. The fender work looks awesome! Are you going to try your hand at a shrinking disc to smooth out the rest of it, since you're planning on FG fenders at some point?

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 14 2012, 04:40 PM


I have heard great things about shrinking disks and have John's video where he
demonstrates it.

I also heard from people whose disk exploded and sent them to the hospital with
major injuries.

I have not had much luck shrinking with acetylene but I may try again.

Keep the ideas coming. piratenanner.gif

John

Posted by: carr914 Jul 14 2012, 05:25 PM

John, I have a Sparco Racing Seat with Recaro Brackets that came out of the Carrera if you want a Real Racing Seat ( Cheap)

DSAttached Image

Posted by: MikeSpraggi Jul 14 2012, 07:40 PM

You'll need the tall seat for racing the 914 ... even just vinatage.

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 21 2012, 10:51 AM

People must use the short vintage seat in street cars. confused24.gif

After combing this site and the internet in general for days I have concluded that
I need Roger Sheridan's wide rear body flares.

They look the closest to the original flares that I can find and they are wide enough
to fit the Gottis I want to use. The rear tires on the Gottis are around 13.5" wide.
That is too wide for the Sheridan standard rear flares. Now I have to figure out
what size wheel spacer to make the Gottis work.

I found some other really wide rear flares but they have a hard body line in them
that does not match the originals or they have big vent holes. I also do not want
to use 914 GT style rear flares because that is not what was on the car.

Anyone know of any other potential choice?

Thanks,

John

Posted by: gms Jul 22 2012, 01:04 PM

John,
I would figure out what organization you plan on racing with first.
I would also recommend using dzus fastener (or other similar fasteners) so you can change the body work to match each organizations requirements. I race with Midwest Council and VSCDA around here and have no issues with the wider IMSA flares. When I went to an event run by SVRA they wanted to put me in with the prototypes or the Mustang/ Corvette group. Having only a 2.2 L six this was less than appealing. The wheel size will also come into play, VSCDA requires 15 x 7s for my car so using my 12” wide Gotti’s is just not an option. The IMSA race car I am now restoring will be capable of a quick fender and wheel change to get me into any vintage club.

The fenders from GT racing are called GT quarter panels but look similar to what came on your car…I guess you need to confirm what you would get from them.





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Posted by: FourBlades Jul 22 2012, 08:06 PM

Glenn,

Thanks that is great advice. I will plan to use dzus for the rear flares.

Is there the same issue for the front fenders or would you bond those on?

I will check into the GT racing flares. Their web site says they fit 12" rims. I will
call and talk to them.

I have been studying the various rule books and noticed the heavy class you get
into once you have a larger engine than the factory 914 GTs used, which was less
than the 2.5s used in GTU.

To make this thing authentic to what it was I want to make it a GTU car with IMSA
GTU bodywork for when I go to Pebble Beach. lol-2.gif

If I can swap on narrower bodywork for an event, then that would be great.

I'm trying to finish the bodywork and paint before the Tropic Ramble in early
November. I am going to need to go on a major parts buying kick here to have
everything I need.

Been working on and off on this project for 4 years now. icon8.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 22 2012, 08:15 PM

Welded on a new sill plate.

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I need the engine side to match this bulkhead motor mount.

I think this is the stock style 914-6 engine mount.

Does anyone have one for sale or know where I can get one?

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John

Posted by: carr914 Jul 22 2012, 08:24 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 22 2012, 10:15 PM) *

Welded on a new sill plate.

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I need the engine side to match this bulkhead motor mount.

I think this is the stock style 914-6 engine mount.

Does anyone have one for sale or know where I can get one?

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John


John, Almost Positive I have one. I will check when I get back from Orlando tomorrow

T.C.

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 22 2012, 08:30 PM


That would be great, T.C.

John

Posted by: gms Jul 22 2012, 10:16 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 22 2012, 09:06 PM) *

Thanks that is great advice. I will plan to use dzus for the rear flares.
Is there the same issue for the front fenders or would you bond those on?

I am dzusing the front fenders as well

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 22 2012, 09:06 PM) *

I have been studying the various rule books and noticed the heavy class you get
into once you have a larger engine than the factory 914 GTs used, which was less
than the 2.5s used in GTU.

from what I have seen many vintage groups are ok with a 2.5L

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 22 2012, 09:06 PM) *

To make this thing authentic to what it was I want to make it a GTU car with IMSA
GTU bodywork for when I go to Pebble Beach. lol-2.gif

i will see your there lol-2.gif

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 22 2012, 09:06 PM) *

Been working on and off on this project for 4 years now. icon8.gif

I feel your pain but at least I have a car to race in the interim


Posted by: FourBlades Jul 27 2012, 01:00 PM

You are kicking ass with your current IMSA racer, Glenn, looks like fun.

I ordered the GT-Racing rear fenders. I called them to talk about the fenders.
They have had the molds for these fenders since the 80s and weren't sure
exactly where they came from. They really look like the ones that came on the
car, that was a great tip Glenn. I briefly looked at them while I was doing my
web search but they did not look wide enough. They say 12" rims will fit so that
should be good with the Gottis. I noticed that under the red paint on my Gottis
is the gold color that you see in the old pictures.

GT-racing has to make up a set for me because some dude named Britain ordered
their last sets for some crazy 914 he is building. The GT-racing guys were like
what is going on with all the wide 914 builds right now? biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 2 2012, 05:57 PM

Added some bars extending down to the transmission mounts.

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Welded on a new engine shelf.

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There were some pea sized rust holes showing here.

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MMM, crusty. Your car is just as bad, it is just hidden under nice paint. biggrin.gif

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Keep digging until solid stuff is found. Still a little more trimming to go.

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This is actually easy to fix because you can just stand right next to it and work.
No leaning way over or crawling underneath anything to get to it.

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 3 2012, 09:25 AM

Whoa, I didn't know that was the timeframe John! Maybe you could give me an idea of what weekends you want to work on the car and I can tell you which ones I could make? Lookin good as usual. Glad you found that rust under the fender before you went ahead and painted it. It surely would have come back to haunt you later on.

Posted by: Jgilliam914 Aug 3 2012, 01:19 PM

Being a total newbie to the club and somewhat in the middle stages of a restoration of my 914 that I have had over 32 years. Jesus did I just say 32 years???
Your metal work is phenomenal! Makes me want to go back in and tear some things apart and do a better job! I wish I would have taken the time to do some research and find this website when I first started to tear into my car 8 years ago. I am just thankful the car was a fairly dry California car when I bought it and the metal work I had to do wasn't anything like you have taken on. My hat is off to you and your work inspires me to do much better from here on out.

Jerry

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 12 2012, 06:36 PM

Hey Jerry, thanks for the kind words. I am really just an amateur hack compared to a lot
of the folks on 914 World and they have likewise inspired me to keep trying to improve
the quality of my work. When you see really good work, especially in person, you know
what it is possible to do. When I can shrink as well as distort and abuse metal then I
will be happy.

Some of my favorite threads that I learned a lot from are:

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=16748

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=76791

Start a thread and document what you are doing with your car, it is great for keeping
your motivation going.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 12 2012, 06:54 PM

Rebuilding the cowl starting with the inner piece (peace).

Vacuumed a lot of mud dauber nests out of the windshield frame and door post.
Banging on the windshield frame dislodges the old nests and they fall down into
this area. After a lot of banging and digging with a screwdriver I cleaned them all
out. Shot a bunch of etching primer in there before closing it up.

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Next add the outer piece.

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Then magically close it up and paint it. Still some pinholes to fix.

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Now on to yet more nuisance welding. There were a buncha holes like this in the bottom
of the windshield frame.

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Add a backer behind the hole, holding it in place for welding with some screwdrivers.

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Just sploog up the holes with loads of weld bead and prepare to fill the next hole.

Using some magnets to keep the next backer in place until it is tacked.

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All ground down nicely.

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Weld up the radio antenna hole. I was almost disappointed to find the fender and cowl
are solid on this side.

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Weld up a hole I believe was used to route the fuel overflow line from the cell to the
ping pong ball apparatus.

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I've been working towards closing all the unneeded holes in the firewalls. There must be
ten other holes like this one I have welded up. Getting closer every week...

John

Posted by: URY914 Aug 22 2012, 08:03 PM

John, have seen this one...

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Posted by: carr914 Aug 23 2012, 06:01 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Aug 12 2012, 08:54 PM) *


Weld up the radio antenna hole. I was almost disappointed to find the fender and cowl
are solid on this side.




av-943.gif

Posted by: Evil914 Aug 23 2012, 06:37 AM

Damn that's a cool ride.Keep up the great work!

Posted by: maf914 Aug 23 2012, 11:18 AM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Aug 22 2012, 06:03 PM) *

John, have seen this one...


Thanks for the photo, Paul. I know it is intended for John's 914, but I always like seeing those old Group 44 cars. I do remember seeing the Group 44 TR8 way back when. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Brett W Aug 24 2012, 09:13 AM

What size welding wire are you using? Looks like you need to drop your wire speed and up your heat slightly.



Posted by: FourBlades Aug 24 2012, 11:31 AM


Paul, that picture was posted by Glenn in post #206, but thanks for thinking of me.
You have a great collection of vintage photos for sure.

I always use .30 wire because it feeds better than .23 with my Hobart welder. This
welder only has 4 voltage settings. Been thinking about upgrading to a Miller 180 or
other machine with infinite voltage control.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 26 2012, 07:52 PM

Been working a lot but not posting much.

The rust repair is done. Major welding is done except for a few small things.

I sanded and cleaned it as much as I could stand and then sprayed a couple coats of primer/sealer to protect it during the mock up phase.

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When everything has been bolted on it will get taken apart for final painting.

John

Posted by: no1uno Sep 26 2012, 08:06 PM

What a difference. Your car has come a long way. Can't wait to see it continue.

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 26 2012, 08:08 PM


Thanks man, seems like a way of life more than a project after a while.

You are going to the tropical ramble, right?

You will be able to see the car in person there.

John

Posted by: no1uno Sep 26 2012, 09:41 PM

I'll be there. Can't wait to see it in person. There aren't many get togethers that can claim attendance by a 914 with IMSA experience. Combine that with Joe's RS and all the others and it should be a really great time.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 26 2012, 11:04 PM

Come a Long Way !

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Posted by: FourBlades Oct 17 2012, 06:33 AM


Got the GT racing flares and front bumper on the IMSA car now.

Got the new suspension and wheels on.

Starting to look good.

Got a nice set of steel rocker covers from Bruce Stone (BDStone).

Got a killer restored pedal set and a lot of other hard to find parts from Bruce Stone.

I ground 10 lbs of bondo and kitty hair repairs off the front bumper and replaced
them with 3 layers of close weave cloth.

Now the bumper weighs half as much.

Its taken 20 hours to rework it to fit right and still 10 hours to go...

Love the itchy fiberglass sanding...

Trying to reassemble the car enough to be interesting for people to see at the Ramble.

I am going for the patina look with original, untouched panels where possible.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 19 2012, 10:23 AM

Flares are screwed on for mockup, will be dzus-ed later.

Front suspension has:

New Koni adjustable shocks.
22mm torsion bars.
New ball joints and turbo tie rods.
Charley bar? 21 mm sway bar with arms and hardware I replated and chromated.
Need a new bar because the original is rust damaged.
New weltmeister drop links (originals are bad).
No wheel spacers.
Need new brake rotors.
908 repro brake calipers.

Rear suspension has:

New Koni adjustable shocks.
No sway bar.
275 lb Eibach springs on coil overs.
1.5 inch wheel spacers.
Need new brake rotors.
914-6 rear brake calipers.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 19 2012, 10:34 AM

Working on the front bumper.

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It is good itchy fun. I love the smell of polyester resin and hardener.

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The original electrical box and fuse panel was mounted on the tunnel next to the
driver. This put all the fuses close to hand if there was a problem. Relays were
mounted next to whatever they controlled.

The box is riveted out of random metal they had on hand. The inside looks like it
came from an old sign. The craftsmanship is very good, with neat bends and
even lines of rivets. They used glass auto fuses and a 914 targa top latch to hold
it closed.

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John

Posted by: tpines Oct 19 2012, 12:39 PM

Just be sure to wear a mask so you don't smell that resin and hardener! Looks great!

Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2012, 02:37 PM

John, I need to post some more pictures of the day T.C. and I picked it up.

That car was in SAD shape. sad.gif barf.gif

You are building it back better than it ever was to begin with. beer.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 19 2012, 05:20 PM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Oct 19 2012, 01:37 PM) *

John, I need to post some more pictures of the day T.C. and I picked it up.

That car was in SAD shape. sad.gif barf.gif

You are building it back better than it ever was to begin with. beer.gif


It would be cool to see more pictures from then.

I don't think we realized just how bad it was until I pulled the fuel cell.

The whole front end was missing or rotten to the point of falling apart.

It is still pretty rough in a lot of ways, but totally solid.

The front end shows a lot of weld seams, some original, some from my repairs.

It would take 2 new front fenders and someone better than me to make it look factory again.

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Oct 19 2012, 05:56 PM

Vintage race cars are supposed to show evidence of past battles, at least underneath the new shiny exterior. smile.gif
Its looking real good John!

Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2012, 06:22 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2012, 06:23 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2012, 06:27 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Oct 19 2012, 06:28 PM

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Posted by: carr914 Nov 26 2012, 12:59 PM

John, in another IMSA 914-6 biggrin.gif

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 26 2012, 06:44 PM

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Posted by: FourBlades Nov 26 2012, 08:32 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Nov 26 2012, 11:59 AM) *

John, in another IMSA 914-6 biggrin.gif

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Great picture TC! piratenanner.gif

Any more of that car?

John

Posted by: carr914 Nov 27 2012, 03:46 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 26 2012, 09:32 PM) *

QUOTE(carr914 @ Nov 26 2012, 11:59 AM) *

John, in another IMSA 914-6 biggrin.gif

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Great picture TC! piratenanner.gif

Any more of that car?

John


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/637761-daytona-winning-914-6-sale.html

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Nov 27 2012, 07:29 AM

John,
I didn't ever really get to see the pics of when it was first delivered. Man, you have some cohones for tackling that car. I noticed some of the white fiberglass pieces - were those spares that came with that car? What I saw in Deland was all painted. Also, that fuse box looks scary! I can't believe thats all they had keeping those fuses from rattling out and that there was no insulation keeping the metal ends of each fuse from grounding on accident.

Regarding T.C.'s post - I had no idea a 914 had ever won its class at Daytona, let alone finish 5th overall (1980). Very cool stuff.

Posted by: Scott S Nov 27 2012, 03:26 PM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Nov 26 2012, 05:44 PM) *

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WOW!
beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2012, 07:43 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Nov 27 2012, 06:29 AM) *

John,
I didn't ever really get to see the pics of when it was first delivered. Man, you have some cohones for tackling that car. I noticed some of the white fiberglass pieces - were those spares that came with that car? What I saw in Deland was all painted. Also, that fuse box looks scary! I can't believe thats all they had keeping those fuses from rattling out and that there was no insulation keeping the metal ends of each fuse from grounding on accident.

Regarding T.C.'s post - I had no idea a 914 had ever won its class at Daytona, let alone finish 5th overall (1980). Very cool stuff.


George,

The car did come with a spare front trunk lid in white.

I got new flares from GT racing and primed them. The other parts are the
original trunk lids, roof and doors. The original parts I will save cause I love
the worn look to them. I'll get replacements for those and paint them up real
nicely to annoy Paul. biggrin.gif

I don't think anyone realized how bad the car was until the fuel cell was pulled.

The car was really a safety nightmare. There was one bolt holding the shoulder
belts to the firewall, plastic and rubber oil and gas lines running through the
cabin left and right. It had a fire system which was a good thing because it
was a fire trap.

I need to post some updates on this thread...

John

Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:30 PM

about this time in 2008

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:31 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:31 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:36 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:37 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:38 PM

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Posted by: URY914 Nov 27 2012, 08:39 PM

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Posted by: FourBlades Nov 28 2012, 09:32 PM


Thanks Paul!

How do you think the resto is turning out after seeing it in person?

John

Posted by: tscrihfield Aug 5 2013, 04:49 PM


icon_bump.gif

John,
I don't have much room to bug you as I haven't been on mine lately.... But I could use a boost. How's the car coming?

Thomas

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Aug 5 2013, 08:15 PM

I just posted this in John's other thread, but he's out of town for the moment. I'm sure he'll respond soon though smile.gif

Posted by: tscrihfield Aug 6 2013, 02:44 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Aug 5 2013, 10:15 PM) *

I just posted this in John's other thread, but he's out of town for the moment. I'm sure he'll respond soon though smile.gif


Ah, great minds think alike. Thanks for the info.

Then with that said, safe travels John and get back to work on this beaut.... smash.gif


Posted by: trojanhorsepower Oct 26 2013, 10:07 AM

Update?

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 27 2013, 06:41 AM

i had forgotten how rough john's imsa car was. quite the transformation.

k

Posted by: mopar Nov 19 2013, 12:19 PM

Attached Image

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Oct 27 2013, 07:41 AM) *

i had forgotten how rough john's imsa car was. quite the transformation.

k


One of the original owners of this car and his son work with me. The second owner passed away years ago. Manuel Cueto refuses to retire and he is still building cars and going strong. He would love to see this car again so please let us know when you are available so we can meet.

Posted by: carr914 Nov 19 2013, 01:07 PM

I talked to Manual or his son when I had the car before John bought it

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Nov 19 2013, 03:18 PM

How cool would that be to meet him John!? piratenanner.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 19 2013, 09:35 PM


I would love to meet the Manuel and show him and his family the car.

I'll get in touch.

John

Posted by: 2mAn Nov 20 2013, 05:55 PM

wow! cant say much more.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 20 2013, 08:44 PM


People have been asking what the hold up is with me getting this car done.

It took me a while to realize but now I need to do something about it.

I don't like the way the front fenders line up with the front panel.

So I got some really nice used fenders from Bruce Stone so I can re-do them.

It would really help to have a NOS front panel as well, or one that is pristine from a car wrecked in the back half. The panel on there was sectioned horizontally from two different cars and is not dimensionally correct (I think, need to make a template to be sure).

I think I unconsciously did not want to go backwards to fix this but it needs to be done to be right.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 20 2013, 08:45 PM


People have been asking what the hold up is with me getting this car done.

It took me a while to realize but now I need to do something about it.

I don't like the way the front fenders line up with the front panel.

So I got some really nice used fenders from Bruce Stone so I can re-do them.

It would really help to have a NOS front panel as well, or one that is pristine from a car wrecked in the back half. The panel on there was sectioned horizontally from two different cars and is not dimensionally correct (I think, need to make a template to be sure).

I think I unconsciously did not want to go backwards to fix this but it needs to be done to be right.

John

Posted by: carr914 Dec 16 2013, 05:53 PM

I got this eMail from Sebring this Morning (look 1/2 Way Down) driving.gif


Sebring Hall of Fame
Class of 2014 Announced

The Sebring International Raceway Hall of Fame has announced its 2014 inductees.

Vic Elford, Wayne Taylor, Bob Tullius, Peter Gregg and Brumos Racing join the prestigious Sebring Hall of Fame's class of 2014 to be inducted the day before the 62nd running of the Sebring 12-hour classic.

Vic Elford won the 1971 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving a Porsche 917 with Gerard Larrousse. He also finished second at Sebring in 1968, the same year he won the 24 Hours of Daytona. Elford won class twice at the 24 Hours of Le Mans (1967, 73) and has 13 F1 World Championship starts to his credit



Wayne Taylor won the 1996 Sebring 12 Hours co-driving with Eric van de Poele and Jim Pace. He also finished third in 1994. Taylor has won the Rolex 24 at Daytona twice and also won the inaugural Petit Le Mans at Road Atlanta in 1998. He currently campaigns a prototype in the new TUDOR Championship, driven by his sons.

Bob Tullius and his Group 44 team pioneered the concept of professional motorsports with immaculately prepared race cars and transporters. His first of 14 starts at Sebring came in 1963 at the wheel of a Triumph TR-4. Tullius won the GTO category in his Group 44 TR-8 and finished fourth overall in 1985 driving his Jaguar GTP prototype.

Attached Image

Posted by: URY914 Dec 16 2013, 06:43 PM

Looks like that 914 had just pasted the 935 in the background and was closing fast on that TR-8. biggrin.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Dec 16 2013, 07:06 PM


I got the same email too!

Hoping to make some progress this holiday.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 3 2014, 09:29 PM

I have been wondering about the straightness of the chassis. In the front, the
fenders do not look quite right and one rear control arm needs 1.5 cm more shims
than the other to achieve the same camber. I wanted to check this out so I did
some measuring using advice from Rick and others.

First I got the car up on stands and leveled it as best I could. I was not worried
about leveling it along the length so much as side to side. I wanted to detect if the
car was twisted along its length. Using different thickness of plywood I was able to
compensate for the slope of my garage floor.

Attached Image

I leveled it across the pinch weld on top of the longs. My thought is get the middle
of the car level and see what each end does.

Attached Image

Sorry about the poor picture quality. I feel bad for not providing better quality given
how much you all have to pay to see this. biggrin.gif

Attached Image

I checked the floors from underneath using a level attached to a tram gauge. The
tram gauge has fingers on the ends that bridge the convolutions of the floor pan.

Attached Image

After checking multiple times and places I got it as level as my primitive equipment
would allow. Now I set up a laser level at the front of the car. Using shims of
different thickness paper I leveled the beam.

Attached Image

Now theoretically the car and the beam are level to each other. Using a square and
a ruler I checked the distance down from each front suspension bolt to the beam. I
picked this bogus ruler because the laser line showed up the best on it. It was really
hard to see on my steel rulers.

Attached Image

What I was really interested in was the difference side to side. I measured the two
front control arm bolts and the two bolts holding on the cross beam multiple times
to be sure I got a consistent reading. I found that the most any pair was off side to
side was 4 mm!!! Two pairs of bolts were within 1 mm!!

I think if my leveling efforts were really bad they would all be off left to right by a
consistent amount. Or if the car was really messed up then the measurements
would be off by more than 1 cm.

I think this means the front end is ok. Now on to check the back end.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jan 3 2014, 09:59 PM

I set up the laser level again at the rear of the car.

Attached Image

Then I checked the levelness of the floor of the car in the engine compartment.

Attached Image

I did this by comparing the measurements from side to side. They were almost
exactly the same given the crude method I was using. The beam is about 1 mm
wide and not sharply delineated making it hard to read exactly. I used a tape
measure and hung it down like a plumb bob.

Attached Image

Then I measured the inner and outer attachment points for the trailing arms.

Attached Image

The angle of the photos make the tape look really crooked. When I actually made
the measurements I took care to keep it vertical.

Attached Image

The outer attachments were off by 1/4 inch and the inners are off by 1/8 inch. I
am sure Hubert De La Metric is spinning in his grave that I mixed Metric and English
measurements in the same project, but I don't have a metric tape measure. huh.gif

Being off 1/4 inch seems pretty good. beerchug.gif

A member suggested I check the trailing arms to see if maybe one was bent.

I made this simple jig to check them.

Attached Image

The left and right differ by 5 mm at the hub. I need to calculate what this translates
into in terms of camber differences. I measured them repeatedly and always got the
same answer.

Now I am not sure if 5 mm at the hub equals 1.5 cm of shims?

What do you all think?

John




Posted by: trojanhorsepower Jan 3 2014, 10:53 PM

You never cease to amaze. Very impressive use of what you have on hand.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 4 2014, 08:21 AM


Thanks! I wonder how accurate all this cobbled together stuff is though.

What makes me somewhat confident things are good is that it seems unlikely that
the inaccuracies in my approach would all come together in pretty close to exact
agreement. If the laser level was off or the car level was off, I would think the
difference side to side would be big and not almost nothing. idea.gif

I can only guess that Vince and Manuel started with a pretty straight car and the
cage they installed kept it basically straight through at least two accidents and all
the welding I have done to it.

John

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 4 2014, 08:32 AM

Nice work. There is no reason a guy can't check your chassis without spending a fortune. All it takes is time and effort. You don't need a Celette for every little thing.

For an old race car that's not shabby. Your 1/4" = just over 6mm. The factory tolerance is 3mm or less. (three dimes thick) Add that to the 5mm from the hub and carry it out over the distance of the wheel center line, add some camber and I think that is what you are seeing when you say the car looks crooked.

I'm less concerned with the individual bolts in the front. In a cluster like that you can take an average and your ok. If your still wondering about the front check the torsion bar tubes to your laser line just behind the forward torsion bar cover. Centerline here is a consideration. If one torsion bar is pulled in your alignment will be wonky.

One final check you may want to make is the center line forward to back. You can take some #9 tie wire and hang it down from the suspension mounts, take a measurement at the top of the wire. take a level or something you are sure is straight and hang it from the wire. You will want three points down the car. mark center of the levels or what ever your using. Shoot your laser down the center line and see what you get.

The normal part of the process is to establish a datum line. We don't have datum in the 914 info link on the site. But if your upper body measurements are good you can just set the cross bars evenly and establish your own for this exercise.

They make old school centering gauges for this function but they are not necessary. With the cross bars set an equal distance from the floor pan shoot your laser down the outer end (front to rear) of the cross bars. This will show chassis twist. Then it's a matter of determining which corner is high. I doubt you'll see much difference. It looks like you found the issue already. My post is to bring to light the distance you can go with simple tools. Now repairing chassis issues is a completely different subject.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 4 2014, 08:57 AM

Thanks Rick!

Your idea for using a laser level was the key to doing something useful. first.gif

I will check the torsion bar tubes next. The idea here is that they need to be parallel
to each other and to the center line of the car, right? I think I can find the center
line using my tram gauge pretty easily. Maybe I will run a wire or chalk line down
the bottom of the car on the center line. It should be easy to measure the torsion
bar tubes to the center line.

To make sure I understand about your second suggestion, you are saying to
suspend 3 levels cross ways between three sets of suspension points lengthwise
down the car and see if they all line up horizontally. If I use equal length wires then
a straight car would show them all lined up in a flat plane under the car.

It the car is twisted lengthwise then I won't be able to use equal length wires and
get the levels to be level?

I might need to draw a picture of this procedure to get sure I get it.

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 4 2014, 09:18 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 09:57 AM) *

The idea here is that they need to be parallel
to each other and to the center line of the car, right?

Nice work John.

Parallel to each other - yes.
Parallel to the chassis c/l - no.
The torsion bars are higher at the front.

A measurement suggestion at the rear pickups - attach a bare trailing arm pivot shaft to both sides using no shims at the outer pickups. Then measure their inclination with a digital level which has been carefully zeroed. The factory built about one degree of negative camber into the pivot shafts.
Also - use the digital level to set up your trailing arm measurements. When the pivot shaft is level and hub c/l is at the same elevation, there should be approximately 1.5 degrees of camber at the hub flange.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 4 2014, 09:50 AM


OK, thanks Chris.

When you say digital level, do you mean like those used in digital camber gauges?

I need to pick one of those up.

John

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 4 2014, 10:39 AM

can you find 4 points to measure and check for squareness on the diagonal? having never traveled this path, its just a suggestion. the transformation you've done is incredible with this sad old racer. love the interior light.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 4 2014, 11:27 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 10:50 AM) *

OK, thanks Chris.

When you say digital level, do you mean like those used in digital camber gauges?

I need to pick one of those up.

John

I bought a Smartcamber gauge when they first came out. I also bought a 4 foot long frame with a pocket for the same level. They make a perfect combo for leveling the work platform and making wheel camber measurements. With the level removed from the frame it has numerous other uses around the shop.

There are other digital inclinometers available too.
Amazon has a number of inexpensive options.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 4 2014, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(rhodyguy @ Jan 4 2014, 09:39 AM) *

can you find 4 points to measure and check for squareness on the diagonal? having never traveled this path, its just a suggestion. the transformation you've done is incredible with this sad old racer. love the interior light.


I had the same thought while doing the major rebuilding of the car.

When I had the car upside down I did a lot of side to side and diagonal
measurements of all the suspension and other major points. Those all checked
out to within a few mm. Before welding the new front part on I checked this
several times.

I have done a bunch of diagonals across the front trunk and most check out ok
with one exception that I will post soon.

This project has taken a long time but I am still stoked about it.

I only work on it when I want to so as not to make it into a drag.

PS. I just ordered the SmartCamber gauge. Not sure why I waited this long to get
one. I need to get their string gauge next when I get further along.

John

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 4 2014, 04:16 PM

agree.gif with Chris. The front of the torsion bars are higher than the center section of the pan. So looking at the car from the side the distance from the datum line would be higher to the front than the center. You can still use the levels set at the same distance from the bottom of the car and sight down the plane to pick up visible twist in the chassis or a deflection off center. I wish I still had my old chassis manuals. I would have the drop down measurements. confused24.gif For those that don't know and are following along the datum is an imaginary line to use as a reference to determine various points on the chassis are true.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 4 2014, 05:15 PM

Rick, the datum is a horizontal line or plane under the car, right?

I found this reference with lots of auto measuring info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zh94U0W_hwsC&pg=PA472&lpg=PA472&dq=datum+auto+body+repair&source=bl&ots=pWKjjFoswM&sig=mtlgF2TUpY6LtFegaKyK2IxOiIg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-5TIUv3xKYuMkAeGm4DYDw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=datum%20auto%20body%20repair&f=false

This is going to take a while to study... drooley.gif

John

Posted by: maddin Jan 4 2014, 05:37 PM

http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/471%2029%2012215.html
what a great read!
found some pics of the car...and results here
http://wsrp.ic.cz/imsa1977.html

great reference sites.
cheers marty

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 4 2014, 06:40 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 4 2014, 05:15 PM) *

Rick, the datum is a horizontal line or plane under the car, right?

I found this reference with lots of auto measuring info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=zh94U0W_hwsC&pg=PA472&lpg=PA472&dq=datum+auto+body+repair&source=bl&ots=pWKjjFoswM&sig=mtlgF2TUpY6LtFegaKyK2IxOiIg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-5TIUv3xKYuMkAeGm4DYDw&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=datum%20auto%20body%20repair&f=false

This is going to take a while to study... drooley.gif

John


Yes, Nice find. That is very clear information.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 11:03 AM

Ordered the book from biblio for $17.56 plus shipping:

http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=552168795&aid=frg&utm_source=google&utm_medium=product&utm_campaign=feed-details

Thanks for the links, Marty!

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 5 2014, 05:29 PM

This is really good stuff John, and some lucid, well-thought ideas on how to check the shape of the chassis. In particular, I think it was wise to check that trailing arm to see how warped it was. Does this mean that the car is still within factory +/- specs on all of the suspension points? I know it's not perfect, but basically it's "good enough"?

Really happy for ya dude! Glad you're doing it right. Question - I noticed that car ran as a 914/4 in GTU for the first two outings. I wonder if Manuel or Vince has any details or pictures on how the car was setup that way? It appears it only ran once as a /6?

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 07:09 PM

Hey thanks George! I think so far the chassis and suspension points look good
enough that I think the setup and alignment will be good and it will handle well.

I have some receipts for new pistons and cylinders after the /4 outings. I think they
holed a piston during one of the Sebring outings. Eventually they switched to a /6.
Really looking forward to talking to Manuel about how they built and campaigned the
car. chowtime.gif

I need to compile all the race history into one post.

Today I measured the front A arms to see if they were parallel as Rick and Chris
suggested. This was very easy to measure starting with the front:

Attached Image

And then measured the arms at the rear:

Attached Image

As closely as I can tell, they are exactly parallel! I did not move the pointers on
the tram gauge at all from the front to rear measurements.

This felt good to see.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 07:21 PM

So I did find some things wrong with the car through measurements and
comparisons with my other two 914s. One thing is the passenger fender
was "drooping" by almost an inch on the outside. This caused the front end to look
wrong on close inspection.

I made a template of part of the front panel from my red car and it was obvious
right away that something was wrong when I held it up to my IMSA car.

Attached Image

The big gap was closed up the way I had it welded. I cut it apart and tacked it the
way it should have been before taking this picture. Now it looks much more correct.
Notice the front panel is patched together from several pieces and some sheet metal.

Now you may be asking what kind of dumb ass welds their fender on in a way that is
off by an inch? Good question. Until you have done something like this before it is
not obvious to you all the possible things that can go wrong. It all seemed to fit
together nicely at the time. The fiberglass front bumper fit perfectly. blink.gif

This only took about an hour to fix but much longer to understand. Next time I will
know much more about how to position each panel.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 07:40 PM

And then there is the real puzzler. The driver side headlight is very tight in its
opening. I made a template of the opening from my red car and compared it to
this one. The passenger side looks very good.

Attached Image

The driver side is way off. mad.gif

Attached Image

Lining up the template with the headlight bucket and drawing a line down the fender:

Attached Image

It seems the fender was mounted too close to the center line of the car when the
POs welded on a replacement fender sometime long ago. The headlight bucket is
attached to the front panel in exactly the stock location. The headlight buckets are
parallel to each other and the right distance apart.

Remember back in post 221 when I realized the front of the car was too narrow
and I used a porto power to jack it back into place? I was short by 1 cm from where
it should have been.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=91937&st=220

Looking at what I started with and how I pieced it back together it is not surprising!!!

Attached Image

Attached Image

Attached Image

Anyway, now the question is, how do I fix it?

If I could get 3 mm more opening then the headlight would operate smoothly and
I think this would not be noticeable unless you really looked hard.

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 5 2014, 07:55 PM

So the buckets are in the right place, but you still have clearance problems with the headlight and the right fender, correct?

If the left side marker and fender look correct, why not make a template of that and flip it over to see if the fender still needs to come out some? Then you could split it along the seam for the front trunk. Tack it in the back, and pull the front over to make up the 3mm difference. I really want to be there to help you! headbang.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 08:05 PM

I wish you lived closer George!

The shrinkage (Jerry) is inside the driver side headlight bucket. The distance
between buckets is ok. The distance between the fenders is off by 1 cm and that
1 cm is missing from the driver side bucket. Not sure if this makes sense to people.

I could cut through the front fascia within the bucket and try to jack the fender over
another 5 mm or so. Now that I have welded on a new outside fender it makes
the fender like a double walled box that I would be afraid to force over.

I could also make a dremel cut down the fender on the line I scribed and
narrow the fender by a couple mm. Then the fender would be too narrow but
I doubt it would be noticeable.

Worst case I cut the whole fender off and weld on the new one after cutting the
fascia and widening the front end. headbang.gif headbang.gif headbang.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 5 2014, 08:06 PM

And the rest of youse! Quit lurking and post some abusive comments or ideas.

Now I got to go play with the new Ruf 911 c spec racer in iracing.

biggrin.gif

Posted by: McMark Jan 5 2014, 09:44 PM

You're iRacing when you could be working?! mad.gif

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 5 2014, 11:18 PM

beer.gif


Attached image(s)
Attached Image Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 6 2014, 08:45 AM


Great observation!

Thanks!

John

Posted by: zambezi Jan 6 2014, 11:06 AM

How does a known good hood fit? Check that now too so there are no more surprises. It will also show you where you can and cannot add space to get the headlight correct.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 6 2014, 11:24 AM

Great idea. I will try that.

Keep the ideas coming.

John

Posted by: rick 918-S Jan 6 2014, 06:40 PM

FERG.gif Your car is coming along nicely. It will be up to Porsche standards in no time!

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider Jan 6 2014, 08:16 PM

If you test fit the hood and front bumpers, does it still seem too narrow?
If you fix the driver's side bucket will it cause problems fitting the hood and bumpers back on??
It's all connected (eventually) biggrin.gif
Keep up the great work beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 6 2014, 08:57 PM

Good questions Chris.

I will try the hood and stock bumper to see how those fit.

I plan to see how the fairly rare fiberglass bumper that was used on the car fits on my stock cars just for a comparison.

I plan to take this slow and get it right this time.

I could cut all the damaged panels off and totally rebuild it to look completely stock but I think that would not be true to how it was when it raced. I like the subtle signs of battle damage, they just need to be a little more subtle.. biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 7 2014, 07:44 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 6 2014, 09:57 PM) *

I like the subtle signs of battle damage, they just need to be a little more subtle.. biggrin.gif

John

agree.gif
Without the battle scars it just wouldn't be the same car.

Posted by: rhodyguy Jan 7 2014, 08:41 AM

agree.gif patina. if you can align it, roll with it.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 7 2014, 10:12 AM


I think you guys get it.

When you see the car in person it has a certain feel to it and you can tell it has had an interesting history.

I am trying to save this look while still making a functional car out of it.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2014, 05:52 PM

Fixing the driver side headlight bucket. The bucket is too narrow and the headlight
rubs when opening and closing. I am going to try the easy way to fix it. If that
does not work I can move on to more drastic measures.

Attached Image

The turn signal bucket area is also in really bad shape. The contour around the
turn signal has been flattened out and the metal is weak and cracked.

Attached Image

Start cutting out the bad metal at the bottom of the fender.

Attached Image

Cut a pie shaped piece out of the fender about 5 mm wide at the bottom and
tapering to 1 mm at the top.

Attached Image

Going to post this much as a test, last night I typed it all and the server died.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2014, 06:00 PM

OK, that post worked so I will continue the story.

Used a LFH and some careful pounding to realign the side of the fender.

Attached Image

Shoot some tacks to keep it in place.

Attached Image

Check the headlight fit. It operates smoothly and the seams look even.

Attached Image

Check it with a ruler. The fender is straighter now and looks better.

Attached Image

It all looks good, to stitch it up.

Attached Image

Grind and sand it smooth. This kind of 90 degree seam is really easy to weld and
finish even in thin metal.

Attached Image

Now to tackle the hard part.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2014, 06:14 PM

Moving on to the turn signal bucket area. Notice how there is a raised ring around
the whole turn signal on this good fender that BD Stone sent me. This is what I
will try to replicate.

Attached Image

The bottom edge of the fender should be even with the top edge of the front valence
panel as you can see on the yellow piece that Garold Shaffer sent me.

Attached Image

Here is another view of the correct body line. Having screwed up both sides in this
area it makes me really sensitive to getting these things right in the future.

Attached Image

My plan of attack it to make this up in several pieces and then weld them all
together. I thought about making a hammer form for this but the piece is just
too curved for this to work. Spent an hour playing with various templates.

Attached Image

Putting in the double bend at the front.

Attached Image

Measured the bend carefully so that the front edge ends up in the right place
vertically and front to back.

Attached Image

Clamp on my trusty ruler as a reference line.

Attached Image

Try a test fit.

Attached Image

The piece needs to be curved slightly so take a few small bites with the shrinker.

Attached Image

I am not sure how this will turn out...

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2014, 06:31 PM

Actually I know exactly how it turns out, I just don't want the site to crash and lose
all that typing and uploading.

Here is what happened:

The fit is looking good.

Attached Image

Clamp it up and weld it.

Attached Image

Weld on the second piece.

Attached Image

Check the fit of the bumper before going any further. The bumper was shaped to
fit the old nasty metal so it will need work, but it basically looks good.

Attached Image

All tools down for a beer time out.

Attached Image

Fit the last piece of the puzzle. The tape holds it in place just long enough to get a
couple tacks on it.

Attached Image

Use all the tricks to avoid blowing holes in this 20 gauge metal. Copper strip shaped
to fit and clamped in back. Some extra clamps thrown on to act as heat sinks.
Welder turned down very low for the first tacks.

Attached Image

Now turn up the welder to make sure it burns through. Otherwise there will be a
lot of holes open up when grinding the weld (very annoying). I place each new
weld right on the edge of one of the small tacks to act as a heat sink. Still blew
a couple holes.

Attached Image

Fill it all in. Also welded all the seams from the back to provide more metal for
the shaping needed. This also helps stop annoying pin holes from opening up
during grinding.

Attached Image

Looking good.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2014, 06:45 PM

Used a flap disk to sand the weld down close to final shape.

Then I pulled out a big round file for the final shaping. Area 51 welding jacket to
boost confidence.

Attached Image

Hand files worked slow and steady for no screw ups.

Attached Image

Check it with the ruler. I'd like to be buried with this ruler when the time comes,
and my MillerMatic.

Attached Image

Nearly done filing.

Attached Image

Comparing to the stock fender.

Attached Image

Primed it looks even better.

Attached Image

Put it all back together for a check. The bumper will need some work but everything
else lines up nicely.

Attached Image

Side view looks good.

Attached Image

Really pleased to have this fixed up. A little bondo sculpting later on and it will be
ready for Amelia Island.

John



Attached thumbnail(s)
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Posted by: bandjoey Jan 20 2014, 08:41 PM

U R A Genuus of Metal Work! biggrin.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 1 2014, 09:58 PM

Thanks Bill. I still have a lot to learn and to practice. I would not have had to go to
all this trouble to fix the turn signals if I had not screwed them up in the first
place. biggrin.gif

Started working on fitting the rocker panels. Got out the originals for reference.

Attached Image

Notice that the rocker panel is not covered by the fender flare. This is a different
look than fenders I have now.

Attached Image

Use the laser level to draw a cutting line. Plan is to cut off the bottom of the fender
and glass a new return edge on to it. Then curve the rocker to match. This is part
of the distinctive look the car has.

Attached Image

Comparing the original and new rockers. I used the stretcher on the top edge and
had to notch the bottom edge to get the right curve. Also did the same to match
the curve of the front fender flares.

Attached Image

Took a lot of fiddling around to get it right. Still some fiberglass work left to do.

Attached Image

Getting there a little at a time.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 1 2014, 10:21 PM

Some pictures of the transmission cooler and fluid pump.

Attached Image

The motor still operates. The pump has the letters "OBERDORFER" on it.

Attached Image

You can see the cooler through the holes they drilled in the bumper.

Attached Image

This is not a wide angle shot, the rear of this car is that wide.

John

Posted by: Cairo94507 Feb 2 2014, 08:43 AM

Stunning level of detail and beautiful metal work. When I originally saw the pictures of this car I had my doubts, but it is really taking shape nicely. So glad this car is being saved.

Posted by: wndsrfr Feb 2 2014, 09:04 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Feb 1 2014, 08:21 PM) *

Some pictures of the transmission cooler and fluid pump.



The motor still operates. The pump has the letters oberdorfer on it.

John


I have that pump....bought it back in the 70's for a solar water rig....then put it into use to transfer fuel oil....now sitting in my garage...

Posted by: rick 918-S Feb 2 2014, 12:29 PM

Your moving along now! Nice to see assimilate.gif the jacket is in use! biggrin.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 4 2014, 08:39 PM

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Feb 2 2014, 08:04 AM) *

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Feb 1 2014, 08:21 PM) *

Some pictures of the transmission cooler and fluid pump.



The motor still operates. The pump has the letters oberdorfer on it.

John


I have that pump....bought it back in the 70's for a solar water rig....then put it into use to transfer fuel oil....now sitting in my garage...


Someone doing a vintage restore might be able to use that pump.

Anyone else ever see this used for transmission cooling?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 4 2014, 08:45 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Feb 2 2014, 11:29 AM) *

Your moving along now! Nice to see assimilate.gif the jacket is in use! biggrin.gif


Love the jacket Rick!

You should make some more alien swag. piratenanner.gif

I was stalled for a long time worrying about warpage.

Now I am resolved to be track ready in 2014. beerchug.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 7 2014, 10:02 PM

After bolting the rocker panel to the bottom of the car I realized I need to cut some
pie sections out to keep it lined up. The original rocker was brazed to the car at
the top and bottom and stretched somehow to fit.

Attached Image

Front section. Folded over a piece of metal and tacked it to keep it in place for
patching and welding up.

Attached Image

Now I think it is done. The rocker panel has lots of bondo and was a pain to get
to fit right. I also determined that the orange color they used was "Chevy Orange"
or very close to it.

Attached Image

Still have to do the other side. rolleyes.gif

John

Posted by: carr914 Mar 14 2014, 06:52 AM

Possible Car Sighting in Vintage Picture!

Look to the Left (in the Pit Stall)

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Posted by: gms Mar 14 2014, 07:29 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 14 2014, 07:52 AM) *

Possible Car Sighting in Vintage Picture!

That would be the 1975 Doell Enterprises 911s entry at Sebring.
Three 914s ran at that race, it looks to be the yellow Hulen 914/6

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Mar 14 2014, 07:47 AM

This looks MUCH better John! So glad you're doing it right. Hoping to be able to come over for a weekend soon to help.

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 25 2014, 05:06 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 20 2014, 05:45 PM) *


Side view looks good.

Attached Image

Really pleased to have this fixed up. A little bondo sculpting later on and it will be
ready for Amelia Island.

John


Funny how ironic life is...I wrote this as a joke, and now I expect "the call" anytime
from the Amelia concours committee. I know they are dying to have my car
front and center. rolleyes.gif

John

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 25 2014, 07:46 PM

Wow!!!!!!

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Sep 25 2014, 08:36 PM

So now that John is a real, honest-to-goodness RACER, I expect this project to be done and on the track real soon. I think two weeks is more than adequate... poke.gif

Posted by: Larmo63 Sep 25 2014, 10:41 PM

Such a great build and good thread. A real inspiration to us "new guys.' Thank you.

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 26 2014, 09:43 AM


George,

I think if you, Marc, Shane, Keith and Joe all showed up we could be done in two weeks.

piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Glad people enjoy my warped sense of humor.

John

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Sep 27 2014, 07:28 AM

Hey John,
I had seen your build before. WOW. Keep posting the picks. I hope you don't mind me stealing some front oil cooler ideas! biggrin.gif
Shane

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 27 2014, 09:17 AM


I am fired up to get this thing done!

Last winter fell victim to 14 weeks of visitors... mad.gif

This winter there will be a ban on visitors until the car is done.

And maybe then some.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 28 2014, 08:23 PM

Been working on the rocker panels.

Pictures later, thought I had uploaded them...

rolleyes.gif

Posted by: carr914 Oct 28 2014, 08:56 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 27 2014, 11:17 AM) *

I am fired up to get this thing done!

Last winter fell victim to 14 weeks of visitors... mad.gif

This winter there will be a ban on visitors until the car is done.

And maybe then some.

John


You and me both! I need to get 914 Stuff Done!

I may do a Fuel Line Install Party at my Place - Bring the other half over for the day. We can get George's Wife, I'll talk Janie Gaglione into coming as one of the sets of Fuel Lines is for his LE, so it can me more than a Guy Thing (we might eat better too!) Snakeman just moved to Tampa. With no TR, at least lets get together

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 12 2015, 10:02 PM

TC: I would like to come over some time for a build party, I think I missed the last one you had by not checking the world often enough.


I am trying to decide how to plumb the oil system and have two alternatives I would like people to comment on. The first one is similar to how the car was plumbed when I got it. Oil comes from the engine through the heater tube in the driver side long, out by the driver's left foot and into the little reinforcing box section and then into the front trunk. I don't like the idea of the hot oil being right under the driver's left foot. It also means the oil filter has to be plumbed after the thermostat and cooler due to tight confines on the driver's side. Oil returns to the engine from the bottom of the oil tank through a -16 line running through the passenger long.

Here is how it is plumbed now:

Attached Image

An alternate approach would be to put both the sending and return oil lines in the passenger side heater tube. The -12 and -16 lines will just fit I am pretty sure. I was able to stuff both in there about half way without really trying too hard. Worst case I take the heater tube out to make more room? The advantage here is that the hot oil line is on the other side of the car from the driver. It also allows the oil filter to be added before the thermostat and oil cooler instead of after (if that matters).

Here is how this would work:

Attached Image

There are also three -12 AN fittings on the top of the oil tank. One for input of oil from the cooler, one to an overflow tank with a breather, and not sure what the third fitting would be used for?

I still need to find a console for an oil filter that takes -12 AN fittings. The ones I have found from Summit Racing, etc. seem really expensive for a simple console. Any ideas there on what part to use?

Any comments would be appreciated. I have some photos of what this looks like using the first approach I will post tomorrow.

Thanks,

John


Posted by: carr914 Jan 13 2015, 05:55 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 12 2015, 11:02 PM) *

TC: I would like to come over some time for a build party, I think I missed the last one you had by not checking the world often enough.




So did just about everybody else! 3 of us just sat around and drank Beer! drunk.gif

Maybe in Feb or March - I need to put the engine & tranny in the racecar

Posted by: stownsen914 Jan 13 2015, 09:24 AM

I like your alternate layout better. Both to keep oil lines away from you the driver, and also because it filters the oil before going to the cooler. If you ever blow a motor, you don't want to pollute the cooler - even after cleaning a polluted cooler, you can never be 100% sure it's totally clean. Note that if you make this change in layout, you might want to do a cleaning on your cooler just for the heck of it, since it will now be after your filter, so anything that might be in there now will dump into your tank (and your engine unless you have a second filter in the system). For 911 motors, I like to put a second filter on the engine in place of the stock oil cooler, but I think you might be using a 4, so perhaps not relevant in your case.

The third fitting you mention - is it on top of the tank? If so, it could be for a vent hose from the engine. It's good to put that vent to the tank instead of the catch can, otherwise you'll be emptying your catch can all the time.

Scott

Posted by: MJHanna Jan 13 2015, 09:25 AM

I just read all of this build thread. You have the skills of a madman to take on this project!! Such dedication to detail and getting it right. Please pat yourself on the back for all your efforts that you have completed on this project. I know you talked about your seat if you have not bought one yet please look at this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8r5ZyHvGw It might not “look” vintage but a halo seat is worth the price. I have one now installed in my vintage race car. Keep going I know you have the internal struggle to not fix something as that’s the way it was “built” and you need to leave it as is. Keep pushing forward on this fabulous project. It certainly a labor of love.
Mark
piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Jan 13 2015, 11:02 AM

QUOTE(MJHanna @ Jan 13 2015, 07:25 AM) *

I just read all of this build thread. You have the skills of a madman to take on this project!! Such dedication to detail and getting it right. Please pat yourself on the back for all your efforts that you have completed on this project. I know you talked about your seat if you have not bought one yet please look at this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX8r5ZyHvGw It might not “look” vintage but a halo seat is worth the price. I have one now installed in my vintage race car. Keep going I know you have the internal struggle to not fix something as that’s the way it was “built” and you need to leave it as is. Keep pushing forward on this fabulous project. It certainly a labor of love.
Mark
piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif piratenanner.gif


I know a lot of us have been dead on the track before. Watched plenty of "crash videos" That video was really tough to watch.

Posted by: stownsen914 Jan 13 2015, 04:03 PM

Gotta be hard to watch a car coming at you like that and know you can't do a damned thing sad.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 13 2015, 06:07 PM


Thanks for all the positive comments!

I bought a HANS plus a Kirkey seat with much larger shoulder level bolsters and hip bolsters than that poor 911 driver was using. I think you would still be banged up but maybe not move around as much in the impact. I initially looked at a more vintage looking seat but I think most people in vintage racing are going for safety first, as I think they should.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 13 2015, 08:34 PM

Here are some pictures of the current set up (the first diagram). Note that I do not have an oil filter or overflow/breather tank yet and am hoping someone will suggest some appropriate parts that would work.

The oil comes from the engine through the driver long and into the boxed section by the driver's left foot. I would close up most of the hole in the long, and make a cover to enclose the oil line, but I still don't like this setup.

Attached Image

This is an overview of the front trunk with the oil tank, fuel cell and oil cooler shroud.

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View with the fuel cell removed.

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Removing the service cover in the cooler shroud I made out of sheet metal. It has nuts welded on the backs so it can be bolted together and I powder coated it once it all fit right.

Attached Image

Oil line coming from the engine is the lower one, then the thermostat, then you can see the new Setrab oil cooler, and the return line to the oil tank.

Attached Image

Return line has a bulkhead fitting and a 90 elbow because the -12 line is not flexible enough to make a 90 degree turn in the space available.
Attached Image

Two unused oil tank fittings on top. One will go to the breather/overflow tank, and I like the suggestion that the other can go the engine as a breather. Where does this connect on a /6 engine? You can also see the oil input line on the side of the tank.

Attached Image

Oil return line to the engine is a -16 AN and comes from the bottom of the tank and goes into the passenger long. Again, I will close up most of the hole in the long and enclose the bottom of the tank and the return line with some panels.

Attached Image

My thought at this point is to switch to the alternative diagram setup. I will see if both lines fit through the long without squeezing them, it will be close.

I still need to pick an oil filter console and a breather/overflow tank.

I like the idea of having more than one filter, maybe an Oberg filter for the line going to the engine?

Any suggestions appreciated!

John


Posted by: Maltese Falcon Jan 14 2015, 12:57 AM

Have you checked the online catalogue at
Pegasus Racing ?
I've been sourcing lots of parts from there.
Marty

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Jan 14 2015, 07:24 AM

Hey John,
I was able to get 2 -12 lines in the passenger heater tube. I'm also not a fan of that oil line next to the drivers feet. I have my first event coming up next weekend. I plan on running my car hard to look for potential problems. But those lines look pretty safe in there.
I bought most of my oil cooler parts from BAT (out of Tampa). They had all kinds of thing there. Maybe they'll have a fix for your oil filter mount.
Car looks insane. biggrin.gif Hope your getting a lot done up there. Can't wait to see it on the track. driving.gif
Shane

Posted by: trojanhorsepower Jan 14 2015, 06:00 PM

John,

Glad to see you are back at it!

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 15 2015, 11:31 AM


No one thought it was funny that I was wearing lederhosen while working on my car?

Geez, in the old days of 2007 when I joined this crazy group, people would psychoanalyze all the little details in the background of any picture people posted... I expected some choice remarks.

Either people are getting way more polite than 914 owners should be or you all expect weird behavior from me. biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: stownsen914 Jan 15 2015, 11:33 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 13 2015, 09:34 PM) *

Note that I do not have an oil filter or overflow/breather tank yet and am hoping someone will suggest some appropriate parts that would work.


I like Canton and Oberg filters. There are others like Peterson too that are good. Make sure to pick one that flows well, and be careful of lower flowing ones that have bypasses like stock filters do, which can allow unfiltered oil past.


QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 13 2015, 09:34 PM) *

I like the idea of having more than one filter, maybe an Oberg filter for the line going to the engine?


Don't put a filter in the feed line from the tank to the engine. That is a suction line, not a pressure line. A filter there will at least restrict flow and possibly starve the engine for oil. If you want a second filter, a common place to put one is in place of the stock oil cooler that the older air cooled 911s have. The factory used to put filters there on its race engines using a special filter console. Those are super rare, but I believe it was the 993 that had something similar as stock. I have heard that those bolt onto the older 911 motors and can be a good option. You can put a Canton or other quality spin-on replacement filter instead of the disposable filter. For my 914 I built a custom one before I knew about the 993 option.


Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Jan 15 2015, 03:03 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 15 2015, 09:31 AM) *

No one thought it was funny that I was wearing lederhosen while working on my car?

Geez, in the old days of 2007 when I joined this crazy group, people would psychoanalyze all the little details in the background of any picture people posted... I expected some choice remarks.

Either people are getting way more polite than 914 owners should be or you all expect weird behavior from me. biggrin.gif

John


The Birkenstocks where what I had a problem with. confused24.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 15 2015, 03:18 PM

That is more like it....

biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jeff Hail Jan 15 2015, 10:04 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 15 2015, 01:18 PM) *

That is more like it....

biggrin.gif


Well at least you werent wearing Crocs. Friends don't let friends wear Crocs.

Posted by: gms Jan 16 2015, 01:16 PM

John,
Are you going to Rennsport with the car?

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 16 2015, 07:07 PM


Crocs: shudder...

I plan to race at Rennsport 27.

How about you?

John

Posted by: gms Jan 17 2015, 10:07 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 16 2015, 07:07 PM) *

Crocs: shudder...

I plan to race at Rennsport 27.

How about you?

John

yes,
I am working on http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=115558
but if she is not done i will run http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=116064

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 18 2015, 08:42 AM


Glenn,

It would be great if you could enter either car. I really got interested in restoring a vintage racing Porsche after going to RennSport II and III. Definitely one of the bucket list items for my IMSA car since I got it.

Can you post some more pictures of the progress on your black IMSA car?

John

Posted by: gms Jan 19 2015, 10:09 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 18 2015, 08:42 AM) *

Can you post some more pictures of the progress on your black IMSA car?

Update posted on http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=115558&st=40

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2015, 09:19 AM


I am considering a variation of the first approach, which is to run the oil line from the engine through the driver's heater tube and then up and out of the elbow (like the hot air would flow) and then through the firewall and into the front trunk.

This keeps the oil line pretty far away from the driver's feet. It is also how the original owners had plumbed the car.

I tried moving the line to passenger side but there is not room in the heater tube for a -16 and a -12 line. I don't want to cut out the passenger heater tube and elbows to make more room because I don't want to hack up the car in a way the original owners did not do (anymore than I have already).

I doubt this car will ever run 12 hour races again where the build up of heat in the driver's long will be a big issue. I can fire sleave the line to keep heat transfer down near the driver. The original owners ran four 12 hour races this way so it must work fairly well.

I think I have found oil filter console and breather can, now I need to add in the fuel and other components to figure out how to package all this.

Does anyone know if having working wipers is necessary in certain race series? The wiper mechanism takes up a fair bit of room. For example, I would love to do Classic Le Mans, and it often rains during the event.

Keep the comments coming, I appreciate all the good advice.

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 20 2015, 10:28 AM

John, you could also run one line down the passenger heater tube and the other (possibly the "cooled" oil) through the drivers. I still don't think the heat would really be much more noticeable than the other typical heat of racing, especially if you use FireBraid or other on them. Plus, I think you were planning on a CoolSuit - if so, you'll barely notice the heat from the lines. I ran in a Mustang with a built 347 in the front of it, once without a cool suit and once with. I was able to get through my stint the first time (1.5 hours) but the second time with the suit I felt practically fresh when I got out of the car. It does make a difference and I know that car makes a TON of heat.

As far as the wipers go, you could try to fabricate a different, or smaller/lighter wiper setup from another, more modern car. But I would not go without one completely. It would suck to get the car to a weekend and have to sit out because you can't see. RainX alone probably won't be sufficient, however I think most organizations (HSR, etc) don't necessarily require one. On that note, I finally convinced the owner of the car I'm prepping now to spring for rain tires - something every racer in Florida should have a set of.

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 20 2015, 10:35 AM

My SCCA car hasn't had wipers since I moved to Production.
A good coat of Rain-X is all you need.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2015, 11:29 AM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Jan 20 2015, 09:28 AM) *

John, you could also run one line down the passenger heater tube and the other (possibly the "cooled" oil) through the drivers. I still don't think the heat would really be much more noticeable than the other typical heat of racing, especially if you use FireBraid or other on them. Plus, I think you were planning on a CoolSuit - if so, you'll barely notice the heat from the lines. I ran in a Mustang with a built 347 in the front of it, once without a cool suit and once with. I was able to get through my stint the first time (1.5 hours) but the second time with the suit I felt practically fresh when I got out of the car. It does make a difference and I know that car makes a TON of heat.

As far as the wipers go, you could try to fabricate a different, or smaller/lighter wiper setup from another, more modern car. But I would not go without one completely. It would suck to get the car to a weekend and have to sit out because you can't see. RainX alone probably won't be sufficient, however I think most organizations (HSR, etc) don't necessarily require one. On that note, I finally convinced the owner of the car I'm prepping now to spring for rain tires - something every racer in Florida should have a set of.


The return line at the bottom of the oil tank comes out right next to the passenger long. Getting it across the to the driver long would not be easy. I like the idea of cooler oil on the drivers side and hot oil on the passenger side but this won't work easily.

I will mock up all the stuff needed in the front trunk and see if there is room for wipers. I don't think they had them when it ran at Sebring. In a short race Ithinkn Rain X would work well. For a 12 hour race maybe tear offs with rain-x?

Another item I wonder about is the mocal thermostat? It requires 4 AN connections and makes running the oil lines more awkward. Is this necessary for a track car? Does it help extend the engine life? I don't use one on my street car but it does take 10 minutes for oil to get up to temperature.

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 20 2015, 01:12 PM

headbang.gif I totally forgot that I watched Chris' video of him driving like a madman in the pouring rain at NHMS. I suppose if you don't race long enough for it to wear off, then RainX is indeed the better solution. I think with Lexan it'd be better anyways since the wipers would undoubtedly scratch it. My apologies guys.

Posted by: Greg914-6GT Jan 20 2015, 01:13 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 21 2009, 06:54 PM) *

I am finally starting on the build thread for the IMSA 914. This is a 1971 914-4
that was bought in 1975 or 6 as a used car and turned into an IMSA GTU car.
It is a well crafted but not big budget car with a lot of clever touches that helped
it to beat a lot of more famous and undoubtedly better financed teams.

My wife and I plan to restore the car to racing condition and then enjoy the
heck out of it without abusing it any further (its clearly had a hard life).

Our priorities are (1) make it safe and legal for current vintage rules (2) keep
it original as practical (3) keep it period correct, in that order. We also want to
avoid over restoring it too much, but it is easy to understand the temptation
to cad plate, power coat, and perfectly repaint everything. I think this last issue
will be the biggest, other than going broke or insane first (either one would
be a short trip at this point).

I plan to post way too many photos, the best quality I can, until people flame
me big time to stop. I also expect you, yes YOU!, to help me figure out what
to do and give me ideas and comments. I may not always do everything people
want, but I will consider all ideas. I'm really just a novice restorer and I know
I can't do this without your help.

OK, so screw the BS, lets see some pictures. aktion035.gif

Competing at Sebring as a 4-cylinder (changed to a six soon after).

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T.C., who found the car in a barn, passes it on to me (what luck!).

Attached Image

I had to turn to a close friend for the financing, but it worked out.

Attached Image

Huge ATL 500A fuel cell. The hood just closes over this.

Attached Image

TC, URY914, SMG914, and I working on my Explorer flat six conversion.

Attached Image

Fiberglass flares and paintwork need a little bit of work.

Attached Image

Wife: Are you sure we are buying the right car? Why don't we just buy this one
from T.C., it actually has an engine inside the car. laugh.gif

Attached Image

I have started to dissassemble the car so it can be soda blasted and I have tons
of pictures to post.

So what do you all think?

John


Been testing my car at Sebring. Zotz's racing maintains and crews it. Hope you have deep pockets. Just replaced my fuel cell, it was $2500 plus labor to install.




Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2015, 03:56 PM


I have done all the work myself because I enjoy it.

It does help keep the cost down. I probably have 1000 hours over 5 years into this effort.

The parts can be expensive...

Post a thread about your car and your experiences with it.

Looks very cool.

Zotz does some high end work. smilie_pokal.gif

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 20 2015, 07:09 PM

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Jan 20 2015, 02:12 PM) *

headbang.gif I totally forgot that I watched Chris' video of him driving like a madman in the pouring rain at NHMS. I suppose if you don't race long enough for it to wear off, then RainX is indeed the better solution. I think with Lexan it'd be better anyways since the wipers would undoubtedly scratch it. My apologies guys.


I like this one best.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77oRaG_PoSg


and, yes, thats how bad the visibility really is. In HD it would still be very blurry. unsure.gif
I don't think wipers on high would be much better. The real enemy is fog on the inside.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 20 2015, 07:59 PM

Great video Chris! Too bad someone spun in front of you at the start and held you up.

Did you have any kind of defrost system at the time?

Thanks for all your help with this project!

John

Posted by: Jeff Hail Jan 20 2015, 09:37 PM

QUOTE(Racer Chris @ Jan 20 2015, 05:09 PM) *

QUOTE(ThePaintedMan @ Jan 20 2015, 02:12 PM) *

headbang.gif I totally forgot that I watched Chris' video of him driving like a madman in the pouring rain at NHMS. I suppose if you don't race long enough for it to wear off, then RainX is indeed the better solution. I think with Lexan it'd be better anyways since the wipers would undoubtedly scratch it. My apologies guys.


I like this one best.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77oRaG_PoSg


and, yes, thats how bad the visibility really is. In HD it would still be very blurry. unsure.gif
I don't think wipers on high would be much better. The real enemy is fog on the inside.


Rain could be worse. Interior fog is another story. Reminds me of my friend Victor a few years back. Show Room Stock Champion SSB won because he was the only car in the field that had working air conditioning in a Peugeot 505 while it was raining cats and dogs out. Everyone else was slowing because no one see out the windshield.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 21 2015, 08:17 AM


Great story Jeff.

Would it be worth running a couple bilge blowers for defrost like George did?

Are you blowing front trunk air or cockpit air George?

I was playing with laying out the fuel system last night, lots of components in a dual fuel pump system. More alternatives to look at.

John

Posted by: Racer Chris Jan 21 2015, 09:10 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jan 20 2015, 08:59 PM) *


Did you have any kind of defrost system at the time?


Only a small terry cloth towel, if I remembered to put it in the car.
Otherwise just the back of my gloved hand.

If I recall correctly, I stopped using Rain-X when I got the Lexan windshield.
It naturally sheds water better than glass.
I think they recommend dish soap on the inside for anti-fog.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 21 2015, 11:09 AM

John,
I never tested my bilge blower defrost out in pouring rain, but I have turned it on to test it in the driveway on a rainy morning and when it was really foggy out. Seemed to work great.
The idea behind it is to pull ambient air from the trunk or even outside the car into the cabin and onto the back of the windshield. If you can effectively eliminate the temperature gradient between the front and backside of the glass, in theory the windshield shouldn't ever fog up. Kind of like when a bottle of Coke sits out long enough, eventually it stops sweating. Of course, in a front engine car, the problem is much harder to control, so in a way, we have it much easier.

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 25 2015, 09:03 PM

Rerouted oil lines the way the original builders did it. I will firesleave it to keep heat away from the driver somewhat. This is much better than what I had before. I will close up the holes I made and leave a service panel in case the oil lines need messing with. That -12 AN line is not very flexible and a real pain in the ass to work with. If the fittings are not perfectly aligned then they won't screw on.

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Then through the bulkheads to the front trunk. The line does not touch the fitting.

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Laying out all the parts for the dual pump fuel system. I need to find a home for all these in the front trunk area.

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Start playing with various locations. Using aquarium line for the mock up. This does not look promising.

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Keep playing with it.

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A much better approach that does not mount any components on the fuel cell or its straps.

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Rotate the pumps to put them behind the cross bar. I think this is very close for these parts!

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I will weld some serious tabs to the cross bar to mount the fuel pumps. They are Holley red pumps and weigh 3 pounds each. Still need to figure out a couple more fuel components. I need to make sure all parts can be serviced or replaced and that the braided lines are not rubbing on anything, etc. The plastic zip ties are just for mock up.

This took about 4 hours to figure out but was very satisfying when it came together.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 26 2015, 07:20 PM

Trying to decide if a 1 quart oil breather tank is enough. I like this one and it will fit next to the oil tank:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-85467/overview/

A larger tank that could fit under the cowl is this one which is 3 liters (3.1 quarts):

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=12261

Looking at these different remote oil filter consoles:

http://hpwtx.com/product/sys222-90007-12/
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=11514

I guess a lot of people use the standard /6 oil tank and plumbing and don't have the same issues you run into with a front mounted oil tank.

John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jan 27 2015, 08:32 AM

Looking great John! So glad to see you making more progress. While the Moroso stuff is nice, I got away with a much cheaper option for a breather via Ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alum-Breather-Tank-Oil-Catch-Can-Tube-with-1-2-NPT-Side-Ports-Polished-/131354129323?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e9550f3ab&vxp=mtr

I think that one is 1 quart as well but has NPT fittings. I know there are AN-fitting versions for the same price though. Even though mine is not a /6, I don't think you need anything bigger than a quart. I've only drained mine once (in 2 years) and even then it wasn't really necessary.

Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 27 2015, 09:52 AM

We took a Corvette to the Lemans Classic , I installed one of these marine wipers..
http://www.marinco.com/en/products/wiper-systems/wiper-motors/mrv

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 27 2015, 11:33 AM


Cool, thanks for sharing that.

How was the event?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jan 27 2015, 11:34 AM

Duplicate post deleted.

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 1 2015, 06:12 PM

Warning: Long post with questions about the fuel system.

Looking at my current fuel system mock up it has some good points, like the fuel pumps are mounted pretty low compared to the fuel tank. All the parts are easy to get to and service. Locating the fuel pumps under the cowl would put them above the level of the fuel tank, which will make it harder for them to prime. The bad point is that I have built a closed compartment in the front trunk with 3 heat sources: 2 fuel pumps and the oil radiator. Also enclosed in there is the fuel tank. So I am worried about fuel boiling and vapor locking the pumps.

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I do like this setup so I want to make it work. I will need to heat shield the oil radiator, maybe using the extruded aluminum shield material that is 1 cm thick. Maybe some gold satellite tape. I think fresh air coming in and being vented out somewhere is needed. The oil cooler ducting is sealed off from the front trunk so it does not do anything to cool the trunk. There is room to add some 4" hose from the front bumper holes to either cool the trunk or the front brakes or both. I think some vents in the wheel houses for air to leave the trunk would work. I used to wonder why the original builders cut part of the bulkhead between the front trunk and oil tank, but now I think it was to extract air from the front trunk.

So do people think I can make the pumps work here or should I put them under the cowl? I could use some opinions. I doubt this car will ever run more than a 3 hour enduro anymore but it would be nice to never boil the fuel.

Also looking at the fuel cell mounting. It is strapped to 1 inch by 1/8 angle iron square using 1 and 1/4 by 1/8 steel straps. The angle iron square will be welded to the bars in the front trunk. I want to be sure this will pass with SCCA, HSR, FIA historics etc. Does anyone know offhand if this is sufficient? I know I need to re-read all the rulebooks again.

One idea for improvement is to run a square tube along the front of the cell and add some tabs that would be through bolted with the existing straps.

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Another idea which is vaguely similar to what the original builders did is to run some straps from the front cross bar and through bolt them.

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Finally I could add a square tube along the back of the cell and run tabs. There is actually room for a 1 or 1 and 1/4 square tube there without moving the cell forward. I could of course use more than one of these ideas.

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I realized in looking at this that if I cut the blue area out of the bulkhead I could move the fuel tank back by about 2 inches. This would get it farther away from the radiator and pumps. It would also allow more area for the angle iron frame to be welded to the trunk. I hate to cut it out but I realize why so many people do it with this setup.

I would also like to make it possible to run a taller fuel cell for larger fuel capacity. This is only a 10 gallon cell and I wonder how many minutes of race laps that will last with a 2.5 liter /6 and heavy foot?

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I am also thinking of locating the fuel filter and fuel pressure regulator in the back of the car with the engine. I think there should be room back there and it will be more convenient to adjust the fuel pressure from the engine bay. What do people think?

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Thanks for reading all this!

John

Posted by: Jeff Hail Feb 1 2015, 10:19 PM

John,

Don't let the head demons eat you up. The biggest heat source is the cooler and its ducted out under the car. The pumps aren't going to add any heat especially since you are only running one at a time.

The fuel cell bladder actually insulates. If you are recirculating fuel its not going to heat up.

Run it!

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 2 2015, 10:17 AM


Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate the advice! smilie_pokal.gif

I am planning to use a return line after the carbs and the pressure regulator.

What do you think of the fuel cell mounting options?

John

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Feb 2 2015, 10:55 AM

Hey John,
I was worried about the heat from the oil cooler too. Zero problems last weekend. It was pretty cold out though. Homestead this weekend coming, hope its warm outside to get more data.
How many laps could those guys have run with a 10 gallon cell? With my wimpy engine I go through about 3 gallons in 20 minutes. I'd upgrade that cell too.

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 2 2015, 11:13 AM


Shane: good luck at Homestead this weekend! The car originally had a 20 or 25 gallon cell. I thought that was overkill for its new life. I will try to ensure a taller cell can be used if I need it.

Jeff was right in that you can agonize too much over everything. What the welder can do the plasma cutter can undo!

John

Posted by: Jeff Hail Feb 3 2015, 09:58 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Feb 2 2015, 08:17 AM) *

Thanks Jeff, I really appreciate the advice! smilie_pokal.gif

I am planning to use a return line after the carbs and the pressure regulator.

What do you think of the fuel cell mounting options?

John


I think the fuel cell mounting is fine. Since you are using the smaller cell the straps are sufficient. The bulkhead brackets behind the cell you are considering is further insurance. Like the tubes from the towers down to the a-arm pivot area... seems very familiar!

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 3 2015, 11:16 AM


Jeff: I totally stole the front tube arrangement from your build. I even included a picture from your build and referenced it back on page 8 of this thread. Given how chewed up the front of the car was I thought the tubes you designed would tie it back together. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. biggrin.gif

I do really appreciate your help and your sharing your knowledge with us on 914 World.

John

Posted by: Jeff Hail Feb 3 2015, 03:12 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Feb 3 2015, 09:16 AM) *

Jeff: I totally stole the front tube arrangement from your build. I even included a picture from your build and referenced it back on page 8 of this thread. Given how chewed up the front of the car was I thought the tubes you designed would tie it back together. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. biggrin.gif

I do really appreciate your help and your sharing your knowledge with us on 914 World.

John


Love it!

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 9 2015, 09:42 PM

Progress on the front end oil system. The lower oil line was interfering with the anti-roll bar (doh!) so I re-thought how the lines were running. I added an oil filter console and a breather can. The layout could be simplified if I was willing to cut off the fittings from the original oil tank and have new ones welded on at different angles, but I don't want to do that.

Here is how it looks now:

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I had a spare cowl brace that I used to mount the oil filter console. I added the green one, the yellow one is in the stock location. I thought re-using a 914 part to make a custom mount was in the spirit of how the original builders would have done it.

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Unfortunately my first plan was to put the filter console on the other side of the bay so I got one with the wrong oil flow direction. The right one is on the way.

I toyed with the idea of using a System One, Oberg or other high end oil filter system and I may still change it out, but at least I have a layout that works now.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 8 2015, 06:00 PM

Been recovering from gall bladder surgery for a few weeks. Now I am back to work on my car.

Finally welded in the fuel cell. Started by adding some 16 gauge pads to the floor and back of the trunk.

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I did not like the unsupported span under the fuel cell, so I added these 1/8 straps going down to the pads.

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Welded the corners and straps, cleaned and painted it all.

I also took the plunge and cut out an opening in the bulkhead to accommodate the lip of the fuel cell. This allowed me to move the cell back almost 2 inches, which I think was worth it.

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I added two strips to each side to tie the frame to the side tubes.

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Straps fully welded.

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Now it is really solidly supported. As I welded this up I kept checking that the cell still fit and could be removed for servicing. The foam in the cell will need to be replaced at some point because it is only good for 5 years. It is easy to create something and realize it has some simple flaw after it is all done.

I added some mounting brackets for the fuel pumps. These are made out of 1/8 plate and solidly welded to support the heavy fuel pumps. I also started making up all the fuel lines.

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So much time is needed to build a completely custom car like this. screwy.gif

John

Posted by: wndsrfr Mar 8 2015, 06:23 PM

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 9 2015, 02:02 PM


Hey John,

Thanks for the feedback. I have been wondering about this issue for a while now.

I need to do some measuring but I should be able to fit a taller cell with very little change. I can go 2 inches wider with a few hours of welding. I would like to have 15 gallons to be on the safe side.

I also am considering a fuel accumulator, good idea.

In some series people place a fuel pickup in each of the back corners of their cells and then run both fuel pumps all the time. That keeps one pickup suckling gas under hard acceleration and cornering.

There is a lot to consider when doing this.

John

Posted by: 914forme Mar 14 2015, 03:33 PM

I would add a fuel accelerator, but thats just me. I also run EFI, so each to their own, I don't have float bowls to help me through a small fuel outage.

Posted by: carr914 Mar 15 2015, 04:23 AM

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Mar 8 2015, 08:23 PM) *

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!


These will be available in just few weeks. We will have one at the shop soon to test


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI

Posted by: sixnotfour Mar 15 2015, 01:50 PM

Wow that's neato !!

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Mar 15 2015, 04:36 PM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Mar 15 2015, 02:23 AM) *

QUOTE(wndsrfr @ Mar 8 2015, 08:23 PM) *

I think that you should seriously consider the taller fuel cell if you're not past the point of no return. Track days for me at DE's with a 2.7 and my relatively conservative driving ability results in about 6 to 7 miles per gallon. So, I'm using about 5 gallons in 30 minutes at VIR. I have a 15 gallon tank and can't run two sessions without starving the fuel pickup--have to fill before every session. It's the sweepers that kill you--at nearly 1g cornering load, it's like having the car tilted over to a 45 degree angle. As the fuel sloshes it'll uncover the pickup.
In your ten gallon cell, you may not actually be able to fill it slam up to the top, so maybe you've only got 9 gallons to work with. I think the FuelSafe cells have a sump option in the center with flapper valves to trap fuel at the pickup--be sure that you have this regardless if you go for the larger tank or not--I promise you'll need it.
Alternatively, you can add a surge tank holding another 2 gallons (Hmmm.....since you have 2 fuel pumps maybe you already have that--if so, great.)
BTW your work looks really, really good!


These will be available in just few weeks. We will have one at the shop soon to test


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfE1v65fNZI



I have yellow foam in my fuel cell. I assume for slouching. This would be a replacement?

Posted by: carr914 Mar 15 2015, 05:27 PM

I believe it will be in addition to the Foam. This is the pickup in that if it is touching liquid, it will pump it. The foam prevents the side to side sloshing

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 20 2015, 07:10 AM

That is a pretty cool product TC that I will look into.

I still am thinking 10 gallons is too small.

I could spend $$$$ to get a 13-14 gallon cell custom made that would fit my current configuration, which is not worth it.

Researching Fuel Safe and ATL stock cell sizes it looks like to get a 22 gallon cell would require cutting out and starting over on my front trunk tubes, oil cooler shroud, and fuel cell mounts... headbang.gif

Not sure what I am going to do at this point.

John

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 20 2015, 10:07 AM

How about a 3 gallon surge tank?

--DD

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 20 2015, 03:27 PM

Doing some measuring it looks like I could fit a 4 inch wider and 2 inch taller cell with minimal teeth gnashing and hair pulling. That would give around 16.8 gallons minus some because I would order 2 corner surge tanks with doors in each back corner. So probably 15 usable gallons before you risk sucking air. Or maybe use TCs mat if they make a twin pickup version and get even more useable fuel.

Assuming 8 miles to the gallon that is 120 miles on track or 32 laps at Sebring, which would take 75 minutes at 2 minute 20 second laps. I would probably be ready for a beer after 75 minutes anyway. Do these calculations seem correct?

If that was not enough I could also add a swirl pot, although I can't find any 3 gallon ones like Dave suggested.

Give me some ideas and feedback here people.

John

Posted by: gms Mar 20 2015, 04:00 PM

Most of our races are 1/2 hr and I can easily make it with my 12 gal fuel cell, the 45 min race put me about at the limit.
That being said I am running a stock (compression & cams) 3.2 L with Weber 40 IDAs
When I ran a stock (compression & cams) 2.2L E the car used about 10 gal/hr

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 20 2015, 04:34 PM


Thanks Glenn, that is the kind of real world feedback I need.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Mar 21 2015, 02:45 PM

Made a low tech mock up of a 16.8 gallon tank. It is 2 inches taller and 4 inches wider than the old one. I can move it back 1 more inch with some more bulkhead cutting and then the fuel pumps will still fit. I will also have to trim the oil cooler shroud. There will be a 1 inch lip around the top holding the top on which I have measured for and still fits. The front edge of the tank clears the hood by 1 inch or more. Don't want to cut it too close.

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The tallest attachment is the vent fitting. It still clears the hood with 2 inches to spare.

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It looks like this would work. Now to see how much $$$$ the fuel cell makers want for a custom size. I will also ask if they are aware of the Holley Hydramat.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Apr 27 2015, 08:13 PM

Big thanks to Brian Boss from German Parts and Restoration www.gprparts.com !

He took the initiative to contact me after I posted a thread looking for a vintage looking anti-roll bar. I wanted a large bar that would work with the car's original and fairly unusual arms and drop links. I did not want one all red or blue anodized parts that would not look 70s.

Brian pointed out the RSR bar made by Tarret Engineering had a vintage look. He was able to work with Tarret to get me just the bar and bearing blocks for a fraction of what the whole RSR kit would cost. Finding the right parts takes an incredible amount of time on a project like this so it is really nice to have informed help from a vendor! Thanks also to Tarret for agreeing to package this! first.gif

So here is some anti-roll bar porn:

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The RSR bar is beautifully made and plated and the bearings are anodized in grey.

I zinc plated and chromated the original arms using a Caswell Plating kit and got new rod ends and hardware for the drop links.

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On the car:

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Thanks again Brian!

John



Posted by: FourBlades Apr 27 2015, 08:37 PM

Custom 15 gallon ATL fuel cell ordered. I was pleasantly surprised to find this was only a few hundred dollars more than a stock size fuel cell would have been. ATL said that getting a rectangular cell made was not that time consuming thus not much more expensive. Their people were super helpful. I got two pickups in opposite back corners to avoid fuel starvation.

Should be here in a couple weeks.

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Pyrotect had an even lower quote for a custom cell with the same fixings. I would have picked them but the car originally had an ATL cell. Never knew much about Pyrotect before now but they have some good products at very good prices.

John

Posted by: carr914 Jun 5 2015, 04:56 AM

I'm thinking our car is back there somewhere

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Posted by: maf914 Jun 5 2015, 06:59 AM

Your sway bar arms look like the arms provided in the H&H sway bar kits. I have H&H bars on my car, purchased and installed around 1980, and the arms are practically identical, except the Cad plating on mine has long deteriorated. Your installation looks great.

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 5 2015, 08:12 AM

Thanks Mike. I've been wondering who made it.

I have been making some progress I need to post.

John

Posted by: Nemisus Jun 5 2015, 10:25 AM

Your work and skills on a 914 is an inspiration to anyone new to these cars!

Thanks for such a detailed build!

Cheers

Nemi

Posted by: Mike Bellis Jun 5 2015, 05:22 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Apr 27 2015, 07:37 PM) *

Custom 15 gallon ATL fuel cell ordered. I was pleasantly surprised to find this was only a few hundred dollars more than a stock size fuel cell would have been. ATL said that getting a rectangular cell made was not that time consuming thus not much more expensive. Their people were super helpful. I got two pickups in opposite back corners to avoid fuel starvation.

Should be here in a couple weeks.

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Pyrotect had an even lower quote for a custom cell with the same fixings. I would have picked them but the car originally had an ATL cell. Never knew much about Pyrotect before now but they have some good products at very good prices.

John

Are you running 2 pumps? If not, you might still suck in an air bubble on a hard corner if running through a T fitting to a single pump.

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 5 2015, 09:37 PM


I am running two pumps and would plan to run both at all times.

The car will be carbureted which helps a little because the bowls store some fuel.

John

Posted by: Dion Aug 24 2015, 08:54 PM

John, I found this in my collections, I can't remember if it was in 84' or 85'. Taken at
Pocono IMSA event. Could this be your car?
Sorry for poor clarity. Did not own a zoom lens yet.
Keep up the good work.



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Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 24 2015, 09:12 PM

Ha, that's Ray Hendricks' car, now owned by gms here on the board! He'll be happy to get that picture ...

Posted by: Dion Aug 24 2015, 09:12 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Aug 24 2015, 06:54 PM) *

John, I found this in my collections, I can't remember if it was in 84' or 85'. Taken at
Pocono IMSA event. Could this be your car?
Sorry for poor clarity. Did not own a zoom lens yet.
Keep up the good work.


Ok John,GMS (Glenn) just let me know it's his ride. Awesome all the same.
Both threads are excellent reads. Thanks guys.

Posted by: Dion Aug 24 2015, 09:22 PM

The only other clear shot in period,again 84' / 85' of 914.
Anyone here have this one?


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Posted by: gms Aug 24 2015, 09:26 PM

QUOTE(Dion @ Aug 24 2015, 10:22 PM) *

The only other clear shot in period,again 84' / 85' of 914.
Anyone here have this one?

that is Fred Apgar's 914/6 and that would be 1985

Posted by: stownsen914 Aug 25 2015, 08:53 AM

Actually no - I think that looks like Doug Arnao's tube frame Fierro-based 914! I recognize the spoiler (Huffaker Fierro piece) on it because I bought it from Doug and had it on my car at one point. And I recall that he had a deal with Hoosier (note the sticker on side) which was unusual in road racing at the time. I posted on another thread that I thought he had raced the car but couldn't find evidence in records available online. But that sure looks like the car. Any shots of the front by chance? Fred's car would have Apcar on the front, Doug's would've had VCI (his automotive business).

I can check with Doug on this ...

Posted by: Doug914 Aug 25 2015, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(stownsen914 @ Aug 25 2015, 06:53 AM) *

Actually no - I think that looks like Doug Arnao's tube frame Fierro-based 914! I recognize the spoiler (Huffaker Fierro piece) on it because I bought it from Doug and had it on my car at one point. And I recall that he had a deal with Hoosier (note the sticker on side) which was unusual in road racing at the time. I posted on another thread that I thought he had raced the car but couldn't find evidence in records available online. But that sure looks like the car. Any shots of the front by chance? Fred's car would have Apcar on the front, Doug's would've had VCI (his automotive business).

I can check with Doug on this ...


It's mine alright. Exactly as Scott has mentioned. I actually still have the front hood off that car. Fred's car was actually sold to Bruce Jones in 1984 he raced it for a season (or 2 ). Then Bruce and I put our heads together and created this car a year later. My idea, and I built it, but Bruce had alot of input and co-drove it in the IMSA the races. Hence the similar paint scheme.
This car got half destroyed at Summit Point by yours truly smile.gif. I used the basic lower part of the chassis over (cutting much of top stuff off) and created the SCCA GT2 car that became so sucessfull for me. The one I finished 3rd with in Porsche Cup USA points in 1989. Also won the SCCA GT2 N.E National championship 3 years in a row.
That tube chassis with a more conventional Porsche 914/6 suspension actually handled better than all that fancy Huffaker double a-arm stuff smile.gif

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Posted by: Dion Aug 25 2015, 01:48 PM

Thanks for the info Doug. I can now label my pictures appropriately. Very cool
learning the history.
Cheers,Dion

Posted by: rick 918-S Aug 25 2015, 04:06 PM

This has to be one of the coolest 914 race history threads so far. Thanks for posting all this.

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Nov 24 2015, 07:52 PM

And so this happened today...............

I'm selling a 76 project car and have it listed on craigslist. A local Guy from Indiana contacts me about it, I call him and we talk 914s and during that conversation he says he dad use to race a 914 in the IMSA series back in the day. It was Silver 914 #21 owned by Le Trianon Jewelry Corp. He has been looking for the car for years. I made a quick call to Glenn Stazak and he was almost 100% sure that it is the same car that you have.

I call the guy back and he says that he has pictures from back then AND the engine that was ran in it during the 24hrs of Daytona. aktion035.gif

He is coming over tomorrow to check out the 76 and hopefully bring some pictures and info with him. I know this picture maybe small, but that is your car in the top photo.

I am working on getting him and John together to talk. Small world huh?


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Posted by: rick 918-S Nov 24 2015, 08:12 PM

Open palm slapping forehead mouth open shocked[1].gif Great Story Garold. If I wasn't getting ready to sell off my house, shop and extra stuff dry.gif to build a new house smile.gif I would love to get an old IMSA car to restore and race with you guys assimilate.gif .

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Nov 24 2015, 08:14 PM

QUOTE(rick 918-S @ Nov 24 2015, 08:12 PM) *

Open palm slapping forehead mouth open shocked[1].gif Great Story Garold. If I wasn't getting ready to sell off my house, shop and extra stuff dry.gif to build a new house smile.gif I would love to get an old IMSA car to restore and race with you guys assimilate.gif .


Rick it is not my car, but the car John is restoring in this thread.

Posted by: rgalla9146 Nov 24 2015, 08:49 PM

[quote name='Garold Shaffer' date='Nov 24 2015, 08:52 PM' post='2269291']
And so this happened today...............

I'm selling a 76 project car and have it listed on craigslist. A local Guy from Indiana contacts me about it, I call him and we talk 914s and during that conversation he says he dad use to race a 914 in the IMSA series back in the day. It was Silver 914 #21 owned by Le Trianon Jewelry Corp. He has been looking for the car for years. I made a quick call to Glenn Stazak and he was almost 100% sure that it is the same car that you have.

I call the guy back and he says that he has pictures from back then AND the engine that was ran in it during the 24hrs of Daytona. aktion035.gif

He is coming over tomorrow to check out the 76 and hopefully bring some pictures and info with him. I know this picture maybe small, but that is your car in the top photo.

I am working on getting him and John together to talk. Small world huh?
[/quote

Holy Crap !
What a world
Keep us posted.

Posted by: carr914 Nov 25 2015, 06:52 AM

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Nov 24 2015, 08:52 PM) *

And so this happened today...............

I'm selling a 76 project car and have it listed on craigslist. A local Guy from Indiana contacts me about it, I call him and we talk 914s and during that conversation he says he dad use to race a 914 in the IMSA series back in the day. It was Silver 914 #21 owned by Le Trianon Jewelry Corp. He has been looking for the car for years. I made a quick call to Glenn Stazak and he was almost 100% sure that it is the same car that you have.

I call the guy back and he says that he has pictures from back then AND the engine that was ran in it during the 24hrs of Daytona. aktion035.gif

He is coming over tomorrow to check out the 76 and hopefully bring some pictures and info with him. I know this picture maybe small, but that is your car in the top photo.

I am working on getting him and John together to talk. Small world huh?


When I talked to the son, he was in So Fla. John has his info. Unless it is the son of the 2nd Driver

Posted by: Garold Shaffer Nov 25 2015, 06:58 AM

QUOTE(carr914 @ Nov 25 2015, 06:52 AM) *

QUOTE(Garold Shaffer @ Nov 24 2015, 08:52 PM) *

And so this happened today...............

I'm selling a 76 project car and have it listed on craigslist. A local Guy from Indiana contacts me about it, I call him and we talk 914s and during that conversation he says he dad use to race a 914 in the IMSA series back in the day. It was Silver 914 #21 owned by Le Trianon Jewelry Corp. He has been looking for the car for years. I made a quick call to Glenn Stazak and he was almost 100% sure that it is the same car that you have.

I call the guy back and he says that he has pictures from back then AND the engine that was ran in it during the 24hrs of Daytona. aktion035.gif

He is coming over tomorrow to check out the 76 and hopefully bring some pictures and info with him. I know this picture maybe small, but that is your car in the top photo.

I am working on getting him and John together to talk. Small world huh?


When I talked to the son, he was in So Fla. John has his info. Unless it is the son of the 2nd Driver


I should have more details today, but I believe he is the son of the 2nd driver. He asked me to pass along his number to John and I have. Hopefully they can talk and he provide some more info on the car for John.

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 28 2015, 02:19 PM

I will try to get in contact once the holiday guests have gone home.

Would love to hear the story behind the car and get more pictures.

I have made more progress on it that I need to post.

John

Posted by: URY914 Nov 28 2015, 09:16 PM

John,

Is this your car? Don't know if you've seen this one before.

Paul

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Posted by: carr914 Nov 29 2015, 06:02 AM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Nov 28 2015, 10:16 PM) *

John,

Is this your car? Don't know if you've seen this one before.

Paul

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Yep, that explains the Front damage!

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Nov 29 2015, 07:22 AM

agree.gif That's it!

Posted by: Mueller Nov 29 2015, 12:04 PM

QUOTE(URY914 @ Nov 28 2015, 07:16 PM) *

John,

Is this your car? Don't know if you've seen this one before.

Paul

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Is this a 4 banger car? More info or thread about it? I love the rims, so simple and not your typical Fuchs.

Neat encounter Garold, small world.

Posted by: gms Nov 29 2015, 12:11 PM

QUOTE(Mueller @ Nov 29 2015, 12:04 PM) *

Is this a 4 banger car? More info or thread about it?

This car is a 1971 914/4 chassis, it raced as a 4 cylinder and as a 6 cylinder

Posted by: r_towle Mar 22 2016, 03:18 PM

What ever happened to the black IMSA race car that was in the vintage magazine pic?

Is that car still around?
Huge flares on it.

Posted by: FourBlades Sep 17 2016, 09:49 AM


I've been battling some illnesses for a while now but I hope to get back into restoring
and driving again soon. The car has been safely stored in my garage. I will be selling
some parts for other projects that never got going to provide some funds to get this
one done.

John

Posted by: gms Sep 17 2016, 10:30 AM

Get back to work!!!!

1977 Sebring
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Posted by: gms Sep 17 2016, 10:32 AM

another 1977 Sebring

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Posted by: FourBlades Sep 17 2016, 10:47 AM


Cool new pictures Glenn!

I've been thinking about this for a whole year while trying to recover.

Somebody buy some of the parts I have for sale and help out! biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: carr914 Sep 17 2016, 12:08 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 17 2016, 11:49 AM) *

I've been battling some illnesses for a while now but I hope to get back into restoring
and driving again soon. The car has been safely stored in my garage. I will be selling
some parts for other projects that never got going to provide some funds to get this
one done.

John


Everything OK? I've traded a few eMails with DarthE!

TC


Posted by: URY914 Sep 17 2016, 07:20 PM

Dec 2008

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Posted by: FourBlades Sep 17 2016, 08:31 PM


After 7 years, I think this resto has reached the 50-50 point.

I've spent $50,000 and I am 50% done.

biggrin.gif

Posted by: carr914 Sep 18 2016, 05:06 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 17 2016, 10:31 PM) *

After 7 years, I think this resto has reached the 50-50 point.

I've spent $50,000 and I am 50% done.

biggrin.gif



thumb3d.gif

Posted by: 2mAn Oct 27 2018, 11:04 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Sep 17 2016, 07:31 PM) *

After 7 years, I think this resto has reached the 50-50 point.

I've spent $50,000 and I am 50% done.

biggrin.gif



Has this 50/50 point shifted at all in the last 2 years?

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 28 2018, 10:55 PM


I have been battling several illnesses the last few years so not much has happened.

I hope that is about to change soon. piratenanner.gif

John

Posted by: mepstein Oct 29 2018, 06:44 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Oct 29 2018, 12:55 AM) *

I have been battling several illnesses the last few years so not much has happened.

I hope that is about to change soon. piratenanner.gif

John

We all wish you the best.

Posted by: carr914 Sep 23 2020, 10:09 AM

John, we need an Update!

Posted by: Jetsetsurfshop Sep 23 2020, 01:41 PM

agreed

Posted by: Al Meredith Sep 23 2020, 03:32 PM

Ten years ago my Son sold John a 2.5 L IMSA engine . I too would like to know progress. Al

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2021, 04:34 PM

OK, I am back again. I hope to stay again this time. The last 5 years I have battled three serious health issues which kept me from doing much of anything other than staying employed. In 2018 we decided we were tired of living 1000 feet from the ocean. We spent a year remodeling and selling our old house and now live 7 miles inland. Priority items for the new house were a dedicated shop and at least one working toilet. Found the perfect house that came with this cinder block construction, climate controlled shop. After working outside near the ocean or in my dinkly, non AC-ed garage, this is an unimaginable luxury. I feel super fortunate every time I walk into it. The day we moved in:

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Of course, it has a whole lot more tools and clutter in it now, but the cars are still the same:

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And here is the IMSA 914 I have been working on for 10+ years:

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More to come in a minute. beerchug.gif
John

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2021, 04:42 PM

The engine that Blake Meredith built for me has been preserved inside my house or now inside my shop. I turn it over by hand every few months and it feels smooth. Looking forward to hearing it rev.

I did get a custom made ATL fuel cell, built to my exact dimensions, with 2 pickups, one in each rear corner. I have a lot of the fuel lines made. All the fuel components are duplicated until they reach the fuel Y connection. They go from pickup, to screen filter, to Holley fuel pump, to check valve, to Y , then Fram fuel filter and then they will go the back of the car using Chris Foley's AN fitting fuel lines.

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I had to remake the whole fuel cell containment structure and reshape the oil cooler shroud to go under it. The custom fuel cell will hold about 16.5 gallons. It was a lot of effort to accommodate the larger cell, but I think it will be worth it.

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Still more to come in a minute...

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2021, 04:50 PM

The oil handling system at the front of the car is nearly done as well. I have decided I don't want the oil return line going under my left foot, so it will come through the driver side heater tube and then up and over the normal fuel tank area. From there it goes to a thermostat, oil cooler, then an oil filter, then into the custom tank the original owners fabricated. The oil tank has a breather I need to make a mounting bracket for. The return line to the car goes out the bottom of the tank and then into the passenger side heater tube.

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Figuring out how to run these lines, and then getting them made and installed is a challenge with this thick braided line. I have a set of cool tools, vice jaws, special AN wrenches, aeroquip lube. All highly recommended. I made a custom shaped oil cooler shroud to work with my larger fuel cell.

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You can see the thermostat hiding down in there.

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But wait, there is still more ahead.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2021, 05:01 PM

I had to remove more of the bulkhead to fit the larger fuel cell, so I reinforced the "strut tower structure" using some 1/8 steel strips, welded on to form a triangle shape. Look at the picture just above the fuel cell.

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The interior of the car looks like this. I cut out the driver side of the cross bar to fit the Kirkey Racing seat as low as possible. Done this way, it actually fits pretty low in the car, maybe as low as a stock 914 seat. The car needs a harness bar and a brace for the rear of the seat. Need to look at the rule books for various historic series to figure out what to do here. The original car had one eye bolt that went through the firewall backed up by a pretty big washer. rolleyes.gif

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The doors that came with the car are Marathon Blue metallic. The car was originally yellow if I am not mistaken.

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One more post for tonight.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 2 2021, 05:08 PM

OK, final post for tonight. Welded up an access hole that was cut for the oil return line. Like I said, I decided to not have the line under my left foot. Feels good to have the welder out and making some progress.

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Here is the hole mostly welded up and before grinding.

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You can just see the return oil line which I snaked down into the heater tube.

Still a lot of work to be done, but most of the welding and grinding should be over...

Another thing which took about a year after moving here was to re-restore my Rockin 914, which is running great and looks good from 10 feet away. It needed a lot of rust repair and a whole repaint.

John

Posted by: carr914 May 3 2021, 04:31 AM

Glad to see you back!

Posted by: Dion May 3 2021, 04:51 AM

This is awesome. Glad to see you back at it John.

Posted by: gms May 3 2021, 07:25 AM

Alright John is back!

Posted by: Al Meredith May 3 2021, 09:28 AM

John, glad to hear you are back and feeling OK . can't wait to hear Blake's Engine run again. Al

Posted by: FourBlades May 3 2021, 12:19 PM

Thanks everyone, I am glad to be here.

Getting my blue 914 running again really motivated me to finish this one.

There are a lot of amazing build threads going on since I was active.

I especially love the Sonauto #40 project being done by Marty. The perfect person to take care of that car.

John

Posted by: trojanhorsepower May 3 2021, 03:13 PM

John,
Glad you are better. You are still making more progress than me.

Peter

Posted by: Root_Werks May 4 2021, 08:44 AM

Been a long time since I read through this thread! Very glad to know you're okay and the project is still around. Looks good!

Posted by: 9146GUY May 4 2021, 10:58 AM

This thread, which I had not seen before today, brings back many memories. I raced a 914-6 back in the day when this car was raced. I do not remember the car but lots of the things done to it are what we did in the day. The fuel discriminator valve is one of those things. The rules back then said that the valve had to be in sight of the fueler. They were mostly mounted inside on the rollbar just like the original photos show. We could run a 26 gallon fuel cell back then. Car would run for over 2 hours on a fill.

Glad to hear that you are over your health issues and have resumed the restoration.

Old guys and old cars rock and rule.....LOL

Posted by: FourBlades May 4 2021, 01:54 PM


Thanks for the comments, folks!

914World community has provided a lot of the motivation and information I needed to keep me continuing on.

Hey 9146GUY, do you have any pictures of 914s racing in the 70s and 80s to share?

John

Posted by: no1uno May 4 2021, 03:43 PM

Glad to hear you're doing better, John. Awesome new shop, too! Let me know if you ever need a hand with anything. I think you're probably a bit closer now that you're inland instead of beachside.

Posted by: Rleog May 5 2021, 06:47 AM

Welcome back, John. Glad to see that the IMSA project car will be going forward. You’ve come so far with it and it’s in the right hands.

Posted by: rgalla9146 May 5 2021, 08:30 AM


Good to hear a health story with a positive outcome.
Welcome back.
Your big project continues...you've got an enthusiastic audience.
Roll on.

Posted by: 9146GUY May 5 2021, 08:38 AM

OK John, you asked ..... I don't have pictures of other cars but I do have some of mine

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Daytona 1972 Finale. Dave White at the wheel.

I bought the car from Dave in December 1975 and prepped the car and went to the 24HR of Daytona in 1976.
I had won the SE Division B Production in a 911 and worked a deal with Goodyear. We ran their new radial GT street tire and ran the entire race on one set of very bald tires.

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Notice that the headlights still pop up, nothing in the spoiler. At Daytona that cost almost 8 MPH on the banking. That was before they put the chicane in the back straight and added lights around the track. The driving lights on the front bumper were more for corner lighting than straight ahead.

Part 2 coming....

Posted by: 9146GUY May 5 2021, 08:44 AM

Part 2....

Fast forward to 1979, 24 Hr at Daytona. Rules changes over the years. Wide bodywork, lights in bumpers, rear spoiler.

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Part 3 coming......

Posted by: 9146GUY May 5 2021, 08:51 AM

Other changes for short tracks. Lumbermans 500 at Mid Ohio


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Note rear wing. Looks like a 911 wing was grafted on the rear decklid. Rules stated that air couldn't pass under a rear wing/spoiler. Added plexiglass along the leading edges got us around that rule.

The difference at Mid Ohio was with the small spoiler turn 1 was brake, downshift, drive thru turn

With the big wing turn 1 was lift, turn in and accelerate thru corner.

AH the memories.....

Posted by: FourBlades May 6 2021, 05:43 AM


Great pictures and stories.

Are all the pictures of the same car, just with different paint schemes?

So popping up your headlights would slow the car 8 mph at Daytona? That is interesting and I guess it makes sense given how large they are and located at the front of the car.

Thanks for sharing!

John

Posted by: 9146GUY May 12 2021, 08:07 AM

All the same car...Just updated over the years based on rules changes

Posted by: FourBlades May 13 2021, 01:31 PM

Saving the front bumper.

The fiberglass front bumper was heavily damaged and repaired over the years. Several
places had an inch of bondo and kitty hair to repair major cracks. The bumper also was
too narrow to fit the car after I corrected the damage to the front end as shown earlier in the thread.

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I ground down the old repairs and tapered their edges. I used to build surfboards way
back so I am familiar with fiberglass repairs. It used to make me super itchy doing this
work 30 years ago but now it does not bother me anymore for some reason, probably the
fact that I actually use safety gear now. smile.gif Reshaped the bumper to fit the correct
width front end. This took many iterations to get it close.

Repaired the damage using layers of polyester resin and fiberglass cloth.

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I should have weighed it before and after the repairs, but it is probably less than half the weight it used to be.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 13 2021, 01:38 PM


BYW, the fiberglass repairs were done years ago, I just never posted them before.

Still trying to catch up with everything that has happened.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 13 2021, 01:56 PM

There is a large hole in the firewall which connects the passenger area to the front of
the car. This was cut to accommodate the bottom of the oil tank, which you can see
sitting on the angle iron platform. This hole needs to be closed up for safety and rules compliance.

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The hole has a very complex shape, so I decided to tackle it using several pieces. Just
getting a piece cut off from a stock firewall will not work because of the size and shape
of the oil tank they used.

Make a template:

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Make it in metal:

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Weld it on:

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Keep in mind that this is the deepest part of the footwell under the dashboard. I pretty much have to jam myself in there with my welder and other tools. I can work for 30
minutes or so before I need to crawl out and do some serious stretching. It is hard to get nice looking welds working like this. smile.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 13 2021, 02:00 PM

Made another large patch to close up more of the hole:

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Another step closer to being a runner...

I am thinking of making a removal panel for the lower part of the hole to make installing
and servicing the oil and fuel lines easier. Maybe rivetted or bolted on?

John

Posted by: URY914 May 13 2021, 05:37 PM

Hey John, good to hear from you.

Posted by: FourBlades May 16 2021, 07:27 PM

How are you Paul? How is your car running?

Sharing some parts porn, mostly to document for myself what parts I have for this project
and what I still need to find. Some of these parts I bought more than 5 years ago so it
is getting hard to remember them all. smile.gif

Some engine mount goodness. The plates are from Mittelmotor and took a while to get
here. The rubber piece is the new URO reproduction for $140ish, while the originals
were up to $2000+ before these came out. I got the engine mount from ebay, I believe.
Altogether this is $1000+ just to mount the front of the engine to the car. These parts
work with the engine mount that was welded into the car when I got it.

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A whole collection of Aeroquip fittings to finish the fuel and oiling systems. The yellow
thing is an actual size cardboard template of a fitting I wanted to try out before buying
one and then not have it fit. These parts are $$ especially for the -12 and -16 sizes.

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New sway a way axles, pedal cluster rebuilt by the one and only Bruce Stone, and toe link adjusters that can be welded on the stop toe alignment changes.

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Gotta love new and refinished parts.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 16 2021, 07:47 PM

Finishing up the firewall. Created more patches and a service plate to close it up.
I thought it would be helpful to be able to remove this plate in order to access this area.

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Using the paper template I made to locate the fitting at the bottom of the oil tank.

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Hole drilled using a hole saw. -16 oil return line attached to the oil tank. I will add a
firewall grommet (still in the mail) to close up the gap.

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Looking forward to not working down under the dash anymore. Everything takes twice
as long and it is hard to make nice welds.

Next I need to finish the fuel system in the front of the car.

John

Posted by: FourBlades May 31 2021, 09:01 PM

I have reached a major milestone: the fuel and oil lines in the front of the car are all
made up and attached for the first time! beerchug.gif

Of course, it will all come apart again for painting later...

I did not like the way the fuel system routing was working out. The lines were too
long and I did not like having any fuel system components in front of the fuel cell. So
I took it all apart and did some measuring and mock ups.

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I realized I could make it all fit under the cowl, much like how the original builders had
it set up. Here is how it turned out:

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Using the old fuel lines I was able to make up all the new lines without having to use
any new AN line, except for the lines connecting to the Tangerine Racing fuel lines with
AN fittings from Chris Foley. I needed several feet of new line for each of those. I can
make the -6 lines with fittings at both ends in about 10 minutes or less (total guess).
I never really timed it but it does not take that long per line.

I will add Adel clamps or bolts to hold each component place. I will attach the fuel
lines in strategic places so nothing can rub on the steering or sway bar, etc.

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Here is a diagram of the layout fuel system. I realize if I put the front of the car at
the bottom of the diagram it would match the photos better. You get the idea. The
check valves are there so that if one fuel pump is dead or turned off, the other one
can still pump fuel without it just going back into the fuel cell.

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I also changed the routing of the oil lines so that the oil goes through the oil filter
before going to the thermostat and radiator. Someone made that suggestion, can't
recall who, but thanks for the tip. Here is a diagram of the oil line layout.

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Really stoked to have this part done.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 1 2021, 09:08 AM

Took it all out again to clean up and paint the front trunk area. It only took about an
hour to remove everything with the help of a battery powered impact tool.

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Welded all the unneeded holes in the top of the firewall.

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You can see the oil cooler shroud I made from sheet aluminum. I started with the
fiberglass shroud available from various sellers. It ended up being too tall and going
too far back to accomodate the larger fuel cell I had ordered. So I made my own with
sheet metal sides with welded on nuts and sheet aluminum top pieces. The front piece
is designed to be removable with the fuel cell in the car to replace the oil cooler if
needed.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 1 2021, 09:11 AM

All the oil cooler shroud removed...

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Now to clean this all up and paint it with some battleship grey automotive paint.

Working with a local hot rod paint shop. They are trying to match the original silver
and yellow colors on a sample of the body work I left with them. The paint tech first
reaction to the silver was "roofing paint". biggrin.gif

Who knows, that could be what they used. The paint job is pretty skillfully applied with
no runs and very even coverage.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 1 2021, 04:06 PM

Boneyard of cutoffs and leftovers from fuel system redesign. Not too much got wasted
and I like the routing and lengths much better. The hose fittings are reusable and will
be needed for the engine bay routing.

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Starting to pressure test all the fuel lines. After this photo was taken I went up to 90 psi
without any bubbles forming. I will test all of the components before putting them back
in the car and pouring in actual gasoline.

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John

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Jun 9 2021, 03:05 PM

So good to see you making progress again, John. Really sorry as I had no idea the challenges you faced over the past few years. Hope we get together sooner rather than later - haven't seen you guys in a long time!

Quick note - might be worth it to inspect those fittings before you reuse them. I know that the o-rings inside of them break down over time and they can be replaced with kits available online. One of them cost a friend a $6k engine!

Posted by: 914 Ranch Jun 9 2021, 04:03 PM

Gosh, this is so good to see. Thanks for posting, the progress is great and that warms my heart because it tells me that your doing much better. Are you planning on attending any events in the future? I'm going to the Route 66 on the 20th and probably won't be back till after the 4th, going Grand Touring in the GT4, coast to coast and back. Haven't seen those people in 12 years. It will be nice to catch up. I'll make an effort to talk to you when I get home.
Looking forward to seeing you.
Joe

Posted by: 9146GUY Jun 10 2021, 09:58 AM

John just a suggestion, maybe you already covered it earlier but make sure the oil tank is higher than than the oil pump in the car. Gravity will get oil to the pump that way. Also make sure the feed side from the tank to the engine is -16. It needs to be that size for the length of the run. Return lines can be -12.
I had a customer that I built an engine for and he was going to put it in a 4 conversion to a 6. When he brought me the motor back mostly blown up I asked him where the oil tank was located and guess what. The oil tank was located too low in the car, below the pump.
Good to see an old car being brought back as it was in the day.

Posted by: racerbvd Jun 10 2021, 11:02 AM

beerchug.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 13 2021, 03:41 PM

Hey guys thanks for the feedback.

9146Guy: Yes, the oil tank is pretty high in the car, about the level of the standard gas tank in a 914. I am using -16 return line to the engine. Thanks for the tips, keep them coming! I am trying to learn the intricacies of Porsche race car construction from wherever I can. Always eager for more advice.

I am glad I tested all my braided lines. All my hose ends and hoses were good, but the fuel Y block I had leaked like a sieve. Whoever was working that day ran the tap way too far into the block causing the two hose ends to collide and gall each other up:

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It felt like the pipe threads were bottoming out and sealing, but really the ends were colliding and messing each other up. I have another y fitting I am using instead.

Painted the front trunk area.

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Started to re-install everything.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 13 2021, 03:56 PM

Working my way from front to back, trying to seal up the driver's compartment from the front trunk and engine bay. Welded up more holes and primed the footwell area.

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All this welding and grinding just takes forever...

WHEEL and TIRE sizes?

I have 12x15 Gottis J55As for the rear wheels. The Yokohama tires on them are another 1.5 inches wider at 13.5 inches and they rub on the inside. Not sure I can space them our any farther. There is a company in France still selling Gotti wheel components, so I may be able to get narrower barrels and seals are rebuild these to be 10x15s. Anyone have any advice on how easy or hard this would be to do?

There are also not many tire choices available in R15 size, looks like Hosier A7 and R7 are about it (345R15). The R7s would be an ok choice I think.

This same French company still sells wheels with a range of sizes and fitments, including R16 size. I am considering going for a set of those maybe 10x16 to increase the range of tires I can get. I want to stay with wheel sizes and style from the late 70s to early 80s and I really like the look of the Gottis.

What are people running on their 914 race cars these days for wheel and tire sizes?

I can use some advice here...

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 13 2021, 04:43 PM

Link to the source for Gotti wheels:

http://www.gbsalpine.com/wheel/gotti/eng.html

Enjoying the rain today, which is cooling things off.

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John

Posted by: stownsen914 Jun 13 2021, 08:49 PM

Looks like the car is coming along well!

I've heard of that supplier of Gotti parts, but no experience. I recall that at one time Jongbloed used the same rim halves as Gottis. Jongbloed is still around - give them a call.

On my 914 racecar, I run 16 x 11 and 16 x 12.5, but it's not really vintage focused and has really wide bodywork. There may be more options in the 16" sizes than 15, but if you are open to running slicks, look into Avon tires. They have lots of sizes including wide 15" tires.

Scott

Posted by: FourBlades Jun 28 2021, 05:53 PM

Been working steadily on the passenger compartment of the car. Welding up many holes to the engine compartment, etc. One large issue was the hole that was cut to access the front of the engine. A cover was made by the original builders with dzus fasteners from the cut off piece:

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I liked the dzus fasteners, but there was up to 1/2 inch of gaps around the edges where it was cut. It also was pretty warped and did not fit well or securely. I decided to add strips of metal around the edges to form a flange and completely close up the hole.

This proved to be more challenging than I thought it would...

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Shaping and plug welding on the metal was easy enough but it proved very difficult to get the piece to fit nicely into the hole. There are lots of curves and contours it has to fit around on all sides. In the end I welded bolts to the engine side of the hole to snug down the cover. This allows it to be removed using an impact in a minute or so but still fit nice and tightly. I have 1/16 inch high temp rubber gasket to put in between to make a really good seal (not done this yet).

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This took a lot of putting it on, taking it off, using the shrinker here and there, hammering, swearing and the whole process generally being a pain in the butt. Here is the engine side, where I reinforced each bolt with a little metal pad.

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The hole of course is way bigger than needed to access the front of the engine, but it will make it nice to work on it. I could have welded the original piece on and cut a smaller hole more like most people create, but this is how the car was done originally and I wanted to keep it like this. Dzus fasteners would have been nice too, but I don't think they would hold it as securely and in the age of battery impacts I don't think it will take much longer to get it off.

The square hole in the middle is also original to the car, which I decided to leave.

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jun 28 2021, 05:59 PM

Been starting on the transmission for this car. I pressure cleaned what is supposed to be the better of the two spares I have. Someone painted this transmission silver in the past and some of the paint came off. I like the patina look it has. I got a rebuilt starter and some re-plated mounting hardware from Bruce Stone.

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I also replaced the bushings in the shift rod using the two different size sockets method and a shop press. This makes it pretty easy, I have no idea how I did this on my other 914 back when I did not have a press.

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The cold chisel is for refreshing the stake marks in the center of the roll pin so that it does not slide out. I am sure it will rust itself in there soon enough and be a pain to get out again next time. Pelican sells brass inserts, which look sweet but I did not see until after I replaced these with the plastic ones. The old bushings basically crumbled into dust in my hands.

John

Posted by: Root_Werks Jun 30 2021, 09:46 AM

This is really coming along! You are truly saving a piece of history here.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Jun 30 2021, 09:51 AM

I really enjoy watching this restoration as it moves along. Nice work. beerchug.gif

Posted by: Dion Jun 30 2021, 08:25 PM

John, I’m really enjoying this. Progress is looking great. So cool seeing IMSA history being saved. Loved going to Pocono seeing these and March’s & 962’s. Carry on! beerchug.gif
Dion

Posted by: tscrihfield Jul 1 2021, 09:07 AM

cheer.gif piratenanner.gif smilie_pokal.gif

John, this brings me a huge amount of joy to see! I look forward to the day we see this thing driving!!!

Glad to hear your health is improving, cheers!

Thomas

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 11 2021, 09:32 AM


Thanks for the support everyone! beerchug.gif

Your front end panel lives on as you see Thomas. beer3.gif

How are your own projects going?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 11 2021, 09:47 AM

Here is a video of the engine I am planning to use in this car. It was built by Blake Meredith, and he allowed me to share this video. The sound synch is off at the beginning of the video probably due to my amateur conversion of the video format.

https://youtu.be/-MJCXKLQLoY

A few specs on the engine from Blake:

Built on a 4R case with 87.5mm big dome pistons, a boat tailed case and polished stock rods. Blake added added ARP rod and head bolts, had the case line bored and cylinder registers decked by CE. The whole assembly has been balanced. It has Nickies by LN Engineering on it. The comp ratio is 9.9 to 1. It has 46I 40E valves with 36mm ports on the intake and exhaust. It has GE40 cams with Jerry Wood valve springs and titanium retainers. It has the tall 36mm intake manifolds with 40mm Webers on it.

It sounds awesome and I can't wait to get it in the car! chowtime.gif

John


Posted by: FourBlades Jul 11 2021, 10:05 AM

Painted the cockpit. Glad to be done welding and grinding in here. smile.gif

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Starting to reassemble the front end.

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Mostly back together.

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Added a fuel shut off valve and fuel pressure sensor. These are located after the final fuel filter and before the line going into the tunnel line.

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More to come.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Jul 11 2021, 10:17 AM

With the cockpit painted, I can button up a few things. The oil supply fitting on the bottom of the tank is pretty scarred up. I used a Koul tools hone to clean it up.

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This is a 37 degree diamond hone for resurfacing AN fittings. It looks like it did a nice job, I hope it does not leak.

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Cut a hole in the very flexible rubber on the firewall sealing grommet and slide it down the -16 oil supply hose.

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Attach the oil line, slide down the grommet, drill and rivet it in place.

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I will add some edging where the oil line goes into the heater tube.

Now the firewall is pretty much closed up. Taking off this service plate to connect to the AN fuel lines in the tunnel was a big help, and I think it was worth the effort.

Very satisfying to get this done.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 6 2021, 05:56 AM

Getting ready to test fit the engine so I can work on the oil and fuel connections.

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Original style engine mount.

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Now I need a transmission...

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 6 2021, 06:03 AM

Before I forget, I added a rubber gasket and lock nuts to the engine service plate. This thing was a serious pain to get to fit nicely but I think it turned out well.

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More to come...

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 6 2021, 08:40 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Jul 11 2021, 11:17 AM) *

With the cockpit painted, I can button up a few things. The oil supply fitting on the bottom of the tank is pretty scarred up. I used a Koul tools hone to clean it up.

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This is a 37 degree diamond hone for resurfacing AN fittings. It looks like it did a nice job, I hope it does not leak.

If you do have issues, there are soft seals which can be used on the face of the taper to fill small imperfections. They are called conical fitting seals (usually) and are made by a number of companies (Parker/SECO/Del/Voishon).

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/del37fittings.php

I haven't used this brand, but they are safe to use. Actually, a lot of 37/45 degree fittings on the Space Shuttle Oribiter used the Voishon version for added safety. sunglasses.gif

Car is looking great BTW! beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 6 2021, 09:19 AM


OK thanks, that is a great tip, Jim.

I think I will order some in the sizes I have just in case.

Are they considered a permanent fix, or a temporary solution?

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 6 2021, 09:28 AM

Time to refresh this core transmission.

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The synchros and dog teeth are pretty worn out everywhere except 5th gear.

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Pulled it apart and replaced all the synchros and dog teeth.

I also replaced the first/reverse slider and 2nd/3rd slider.

The mainshaft bearing race was broken so that got replaced as well.

I bought the chromoly bearing retainer, hoping it will keep the new bearing in one piece.

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John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 6 2021, 09:35 AM

Now I have 2 big decisions to make and I could use some input.

First, I have a set of 930 stub axles, CVs and the corresponding sway-away axles for a 914. They are stronger and the CVs are available for $80 from pelican. Downside is I have to destroy the existing rear bearings in my axles to use them, which were rebuilt by PMB.

If I have 200 HP to the wheels are the 930 CVs a necessary or worthwhile upgrade?

Second, should I upgrade to the billet intermediate plate at this HP level?

If I do, will I have to reset the pinion depth? That is something I can't do myself and would need to find a shop here in Florida that can do it. I know this is overkill for a typical 914, but with 12 inch rear tires and a 2.5L six, is this when the upgrade is worth while?

I am not adverse to starting with the 914 axles and upgrading down the road. Pulling the engine and transmission is not that time consuming. I would hate to break the smaller axles or CVs the first time at the track though.

What do you guys think?

Cross posting this in the paddock.

John

Posted by: jd74914 Aug 6 2021, 09:55 AM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Aug 6 2021, 10:19 AM) *

OK thanks, that is a great tip, Jim.

I think I will order some in the sizes I have just in case.

Are they considered a permanent fix, or a temporary solution?

Permanent smile.gif Well, they are single use as you'd expect so they do require replacement when opening up the fitting.

Posted by: Root_Werks Aug 6 2021, 10:04 AM

If this 914 will see track time, overbuild where you can. My .02. wink.gif

Posted by: Dion Aug 6 2021, 10:09 AM

I imagine with the kind of grip those tyres can generate with the combo of 200HP , I’d say do the upgrade if at all possible. It won’t be detrimental except to the wallet biggrin.gif
It’s looking great John. Lots of nice work.

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 7 2021, 10:38 AM

OK, having discussed this with various people I think I will start out with the 94mm CVs and then upgrade to 100s down the road if I need to. It seems like the 108s are totally overkill for the engine I have. I think I will just hold on to those parts for now in case I do ever need them, or maybe trade them to someone with a set of 100mm stub axles and matching bits.

It seems like the consensus is good cooling is the key to keeping your transmission alive, so I will focus on that for now. I will try running the cooler and pump that came with the car because these are probably the race parts used at Sebring and Daytona, etc.

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The original adapters are all -8 AN so that is what I will use.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 28 2021, 03:38 PM

Shane really helped me out by donating most of a set of axles and CVs he got from a salvaged 914. first.gif They were missing the CVs on one end so I bought the machined
type I style from PMB performance, who also helped me out with a lot of the fixings needed. I have no idea what vehicle those CV gaskets are for but I realized they are
way too small to fit. Ordered a set of the 94mm ones.

Using the 94mm CVs and axles until I get a lot of the other issues with the car ironed out, like getting the engine to run and not leak oil and fuel. biggrin.gif
I also like the idea of breaking the CV joint instead of my ring or pinion gears.

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Finished up the transmission refurb. Added an oil inlet fitting at front for cool oil returning from the transmission radiator. Copying the approach Shane used for his race box. smile.gif
This should bring cool oil to the ring and pinion gears, then flow towards the back cooling the other gears.

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Added another fitting at the back end to extract oil to go to the pump. If this leaks I will add some JB weld to the inside and outside.

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John


Posted by: FourBlades Aug 28 2021, 03:44 PM

Time to mate up the engine and transmission.

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And then, just like that, after a mere 12 years, the engine is installed in the car!

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Did you feel the disturbance in the force?

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Now on to routing the oil and fuel lines in the engine bay.

John

Posted by: krazykonrad Aug 28 2021, 04:48 PM

popcorn[1].gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: sixnotfour Aug 28 2021, 08:48 PM

beerchug.gif beerchug.gif

Posted by: carr914 Aug 29 2021, 06:09 AM

Nice Work John

Posted by: tscrihfield Aug 29 2021, 10:35 AM

Loving all of this progress John! Nice work!

Posted by: racerbvd Aug 29 2021, 05:12 PM

beerchug.gif r beerchug.gif

Posted by: FourBlades Aug 29 2021, 07:54 PM

Thanks guys, this thread is keeping me motivated!

Mocking up the exhaust. I will add gaskets and lock nuts when I am satisfied with everything. I want to get all the various engine bay lines and parts in place to make sure everything will work together before finalizing anything. Need to add the axles, shift rod, clutch cable, etc. to complete the mock up. Want to make sure the oil lines are not touching the exhaust. Getting everything to fit and not interfere in the space available is one of the bigger challenges of building a customized car like this.

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Adding a muffler for the initial testing. There is no way I can run open exhaust in the neighborhood where I live without people calling the national guard. smile.gif

The muffler occupies the same central space where the original builders placed the transmission cooler, so I will have to figure out another location for it until I can install megaphones or some other kind of split exhaust system.

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At this point, I just want to get the car running and start debugging the various systems.

Next steps are completing the oil lines.

I want to keep the oil supply line at the same level all the way to the engine so that gravity will ensure there is oil waiting at the pickup point. I will make sure the oil line is not the lowest part of the car and is as protected as possible.

The return line I may loop over the transmission on its way back to the front of the car. I think this will work because the oil is being actively pumped out of the engine into the return line.

Does anyone see any problems with that approach?

John


Posted by: FourBlades Aug 29 2021, 07:58 PM


I need to add a rear anti roll bar to the list of things that need to be mocked up.

That may be one part I never bought for this car. sad.gif

John

Posted by: carr914 Aug 30 2021, 04:37 AM

Don't need a Rear Bar for Racing

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 26 2021, 03:51 PM

I have been working on the car a lot, but not posting anything.

Decided it was time to install the braking system. The car has zero brake components installed other than the brake pedal. I installed a new master cylinder, new copper nickel brake lines, disassembled and cleaned the original brake proportioning valve, and then installed the beautiful PMB rebuilt calipers. The fronts are their 908 reproduction calipers with quick brake pad change hardware.

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Installed the brake fluid reservoir using a bracket copied from the stock sheet metal.

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I installed the brake fluid feed lines onto the master cylinder on my work bench, and then fed them up from underneath the car. This took 3 minutes and was easy compared to trying to jam them in while under the car with limited space to work.

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Bruce Stone tracked down some brake fittings for me, which was a big help. One fitting is still missing in this picture. Can you spot it?

Now brakes are working, just need a few more rounds of bleeding.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 26 2021, 04:03 PM

Moved on to installing the front sway bar. The challenge here is that the two large bearings need to be exactly parallel to each other or they bind the bar up and add resistance that should not be there. I wanted the bar to move with light finger pressure when the drop links were not connected. This turned out to be a pain in the ass until I figured out a (primitive) system for aligning them.

I started by getting one side parallel by installing the bar most of the way and adding washers under the three bolts holding the bearing on until it was pointing exactly at the other bearing. Then I moved the bar to the other side and repeated the process. At first, I tried sticking the bar through both bearings, but it bound up so badly this made it impossible to see what adjustments were needed. After trying a washer here and there and getting frustrated, I pulled the bar out of the one that was aligned and left it in the unaligned bearing only.

Looking down you can see the sway bar is way off to one side.

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Added a washer to compensate, still off to the side.

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Added another washer and the side-to-side alignment looks good.

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But it is too high.

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Removed a washer from the lower bolt and it lined up nicely. Doing it systematically like this saved a lot of frustration because guessing and trial and error were not working. I had several thicknesses of washers ready but did not end up needing them.

Sway bar and drop links installed. Wrote on the car how many washers were needed where on each side. Should probably weld on some shim plates so the washers don’t go everywhere anytime this bar is taken off. Something to think about if you are installing this type sway bar.

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Still more work to post...

John

Posted by: gms Oct 28 2021, 10:44 AM

you think you will make it out for the 2022 season?

Posted by: rhodyguy Oct 28 2021, 11:13 AM

Write the washer #s in the appropriate spots with a Sharpie. No one will ever see them. They will last forever.

Posted by: FourBlades Oct 29 2021, 04:23 PM

Hey Glenn, I am just enjoying taking my time bolting stuff on and doing a little light fab work. This is really the enjoyable part of the build where there's no more rust and crud to deal with and it's all just putting on shiny new stuff.

That is a great idea Rhody, I am going to do that right away. I don't want to have to go through the process of figuring this out again. Lol

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2021, 08:37 PM

Time to work on the mysteries of the electrical system, starting with mounting the battery. The original builders had the battery under the cowl, which I could not make work. I at least wanted to find room in the front trunk area. It took a while to find a battery the right size and shape that would fit in the room I had available. I wanted to use a 1970s looking lead acid battery and not a lithium ion or other modern (and much smaller) battery.

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I cut a 914 battery tray down to size and made a mount for it that is bolted to the bulkhead panel in two places and the firewall in one place. There is a steel strap going around the whole battery that is welded to the bottom of the mount. I added a final steel strap going to the bulkhead to stop it from vibrating. Even this small battery weighs 25 pounds and I don't want it going anywhere in a crash.

Here is a side view of the mount.

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The front of the car is pretty full now. biggrin.gif

John

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2021, 08:50 PM

The carbs have been sitting for almost 10 years, so I thought it would be prudent to clean and rebuild them. I have an ultrasonic cleaner with heat that will hold one carb body. Here is the before picture:

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Here is the other carb which has been through 4 hours of 50C plus ultrasound treatment. The machine works on 30 minute cycles, which 30 minutes does pretty much nothing, many cycles are required.

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The outside of the carbs are much cleaner, and so are the little passages inside, I hope.

I blew compressed air through all the passages and thoroughly dried them after the cleaning. I also examined and blew out all the jets.

The air bleed adjusters all had slightly different settings, which I did not want to disturb, so I left them in place. The throttle shafts moved smoothly and freely and the butterfly plates all closed tightly so I left them in place too.

These were very clean inside and I probably did not need to go through all this, but I needed to know their state, and once apart it made sense to clean and refresh it all.

Ready for reassembly. I spent one weekend on the teardown and cleaning, and the next on reassembly.

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John


Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2021, 09:08 PM

Picked up the PMO spacer kit to keep the carbs a little cooler. Comes with longer studs, which you will probably need, and new 10mm/12mm metal lock nuts, which makes installation a lot easier against the tight carb bodies compared to normal 12mm lock nuts. If you have installed these, you will know what I mean.

Following a great tip from Ben (mb911) I got them from Larry at Youroil.net. I think it took less than a week for them to show up at my doorstep.

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So here is where I have been hanging out a lot lately. I find it easiest to work on the engine if I kneel in the rear trunk. You can see my feet at the bottom of the picture (I am standing for the picture).

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A lot of the rear trunk sheet metal was cut away by the original builders, for cooling maybe? Or for easier access to the transmission and starter?

You can see that I have fully plumbed the fuel system, with the fuel regulator and gauge on the right side. There is a fuel return going back to the fuel cell, I am wondering if I need some kind of restrictor after the second carb to maintain some fuel pressure at the carb fuel inlet ports? I have a fuel pressure gauge on both side of the fuel pressure regulator so I should be able to see what happens with the engine running. I am using the PMO fuel blocks to make the AN connections.

On the side of the trans you can see the Rich Johnson throttle linkage, which is a nice piece that is easy to install. Still have to fiddle with all the geometry to get the linkage working nicely.

I also have the oil system fully plumbed, so I need to build enough of the electrical system to try starting this beast. I plan to test each system carefully for leaks and proper operation as I go...

John




Posted by: FourBlades Nov 27 2021, 09:17 PM

Which leads me to today's question about alternator connections.

There is a thick red wire, which goes to the main lug on the starter (and a very large wire goes from there to the battery positive terminal).

There is a thin blue wire, which I believe goes to the alternator light on the gauges.

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There is a plug with 3 wires that just happens to plug perfectly into this crusty old 914 voltage regulator I had on the shelf. I am pretty sure that is what is needed to complete the alternator connections.

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I ordered a new voltage regulator from 914 Rubber as part of my Black Friday splurge.

What do you all think, have I got it correct???

John

Posted by: johnhora Nov 28 2021, 02:51 PM

John this may help some...I'm looking for another chart

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Posted by: FourBlades Nov 28 2021, 06:15 PM


That is very helpful John, I think it confirms what I believe.

Now I am trying to figure out where to put the kill switch inside the cockpit where the driver can reach it while belted in. Going to use a pull cable from rennline to actuate it from outside the car so corner workers can shut the car off too.

Thinking the same for the fire bottle.

Will it be weird to have two pull cables on the outside of the car, one for electrical cut off and one for fire? Not sure I have seen that but I admit it is not something I have looked for…

John

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 29 2021, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 28 2021, 07:15 PM) *

Will it be weird to have two pull cables on the outside of the car, one for electrical cut off and one for fire?


Should be fine as long as you have the stickers indicating which is which

Posted by: URY914 Nov 29 2021, 07:46 PM

I thought most rules had batteries in plastic boxes so nothing can fall on the posts and spark?

Posted by: FourBlades Nov 29 2021, 09:03 PM


HSR rules don't require it.

I will check svra rules.

John

Posted by: stownsen914 Nov 29 2021, 09:52 PM

Worth checking rules, you might be fine without the box. But they will probably want a rubber boot covering the positive terminal. The generic ones like any auto parts store (or Amazon) has will work fine.

The car's coming along nicely - keep up the good work.

Posted by: 9146GUY Nov 30 2021, 08:32 AM

John

In my old car we had 2 kill switches, one on the cowl and one next to the driver seat in the center of the car. They were wired together so either one would kill the car.
Make sure you use the kill switches with the alternator diode or it will not kill the car. Sorry I can't find any pictures.

Posted by: ThePaintedMan Dec 3 2021, 01:55 PM

QUOTE(FourBlades @ Nov 28 2021, 07:15 PM) *

That is very helpful John, I think it confirms what I believe.

Now I am trying to figure out where to put the kill switch inside the cockpit where the driver can reach it while belted in. Going to use a pull cable from rennline to actuate it from outside the car so corner workers can shut the car off too.

Thinking the same for the fire bottle.

Will it be weird to have two pull cables on the outside of the car, one for electrical cut off and one for fire? Not sure I have seen that but I admit it is not something I have looked for…

John


John, if you remember the Chump car, this is exactly what I did. Two handles, one inside and one outside for both fire and electrical. I also used a manual pull cable for the external electrical cable as I thought it was simpler and means I didn't have to run extra large-gauge copper cable (weight) for a second cutoff switch. Seems to have no problem passing tech in SCCA (except they always give me crap for it not being on the left-front under the cowl, which is where most cars have it.) Things are looking great, keep up the great work!

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 11 2022, 09:25 AM

OK, thanks George for the tips. How is your car doing? Do you daily drive it anymore?

I have been very busy working on the car since I lasted posted anything and making
good progress. I added a catch can/engine breather. I used the other half of the stock
914 battery tray I had leftover as a mount. I like how the original builders used stock
914 parts and repurposed them when they could. Wanting a vintage looking way of
keeping the catch can in place, I stole a leather strap off my wife's old purse (don't tell
her). This is an early view when I was figuring out how to attach it.

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There is plenty of slack in the tubing for the engine to move around and not put tension
on it. Here is how it came out.

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This is pretty amazing progress for the last three months!

Just kidding, I have done much more which I will post eventually.

John

Posted by: FourBlades Feb 11 2022, 11:47 AM

I just noticed that last picture is still showing a big fat zip tie.

Here is a picture with the leather strap:

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John

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