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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Easy 5-Lug Conversion - 911 Running Gear
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 22 2009, 09:23 PM
First, hats off to Paul (our previous cover-boy and Excellence darling) for turning the bulb on. We were chatting one day about CV's and such and he said something to the effect of; "just get the right length axles and be done with it."
Well duh.
Just get the right length axles and be done with it. No adapters. No extra bolts. No machining, no issues. Just get the right length axles and be done with it. It had a nice ring to it.
I was on a mission. The mission began with a post to get the proper 914 axle length - 20.25" (thanks Ron). Then the 911 spline count - 28. Then a call to Sway-a-Way... yup, part number 2420 in stock. MSRP - $305.00 Not bad, not bad at all for a pair of custom length axles. http://www.swayaway.com/OffRoadRacing.php
I want to make this harder than it is but honestly gang... it's that simple. Simply get the entire early 911 running gear and insert the proper length axle and you're done. Well, there are a few steps so let's see just what that gear is. From stem to stern it goes like this...
From a pre1974 911:
* 911 Rear Wheel Hub
* 911 Stub Axles
* Entire 911 Axle Assembly w/CV's
* 911 Tranny Flanges (901, 911 or early 915 transmissions)
I had the hubs, I grabbed the axles off a buy Reid made (Lavanaut, thanks!) and I picked up some flanges on eBay or PP (can't remember, getting old before your eyes). All I needed were those axles. All it took was money. While I waited for the axles I got started on the disassembly.
Dusty dirty axles... one of the messiest jobs:
Using an air wrench... bolts coming out:
Here's you'll see my method for stub axle removal. A BFH and a cold chisel. Be careful to position the cold chisel on the "gasket" between the CV and the stub axle to avoid cranking on the metal bits:
They're here. Shiny new axles:
The right length too. You can see the difference when compared to the 911 units:
The threesome. Short = 911. The loaded shaft is a 914 shaft:
I want to emphasize the difference because you simply can't run 911 axles in a 914 (for very long). People have bolted them up but, they hyper extend the CV's and they're gonners in a short while.
Remember all that dirty stuff in the first pics? Well, I make a weekly run to the platers so, my rewards are as follows:
Speaking of dirty stuff, the CV's needed to be totally disassembled and cleaned. To do this I stuck them in a gallon of that Gunk Carb Cleaner for a week. This is the best way to loosen hardened, caked on grease. When they came out it still took a couple rolls of shop towels to get them cleaned up. Once everything was cleaned it was assembly time. Not too tough really:
Start by fitting the inner race into the cage:
Then pop the balls in one by one:
Then drop the inner assembly into the CV. Simply match up the fat notch on the inside race with the skinny notch on the outside race to line up the path for the balls:
Then tilt it back and drop it in:
You may have to do a bit of rotating to make it easier but it's fairly straight forward:
Ready for the lube:
I start by putting the nozzle of the grease tube in the inner ball slots and filling away:
Inside started:
Then I do the outside the same way:
Flip them over and repeat. You do have latex gloves don't you? Once they are loaded you have to massage them by hand to work the grease throughout the joint. TAKE YOUR TIME and get the grease thoroughly into the CV. Notice the Moly-Lube? I use an entire tube for each CV. It's the good stuff.
Now the fun part... bolting it all back together. Here the CV's have new boots and freshly plated top plates:
Next the CV's get installed and clipped into place. Once the plates are in place it's time for new boot clips:
New bolts are made ready with new Schnorr washers:
...and a new CV gasket is mated to the CV awaiting the stub axle to be bolted on:
A quick referrence to the "good book" and let the torquing commence:
And we're done:
911 hubs go in the control arms. These shiny stub axles go into the hubs. The shiny nuts get torqued down and the other end gets a gasket and is bolted up to the transmission flanges.
Virtually bullet proof 911 CV's and a complete 5-lug conversion now reside under your 914.
Posted by: Gint Jan 22 2009, 09:25 PM
I saw the pics in the BO. Nice...
914 axle shafts make great t-nut installation tools inside a wooden box. I spent the afternoon building a small router table.
T-nuts (I literally used a 914 axle shaft to pound them into the underside of a 14" square particle board box):
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 22 2009, 09:31 PM
Posted by: Todd Enlund Jan 22 2009, 09:35 PM
Sweet!
Posted by: Aaron Cox Jan 22 2009, 09:55 PM
Those are some nice.....balls eric..... LOL
Good work chap. Im still holding out for the 944 option
Posted by: kconway Jan 22 2009, 10:00 PM
Eric,
I'm wondering about the orientation of the inner race. Not sure this matters or not but I thought the chamfered inner edge would be flipped over from the way shown in your photo so to except the driveshaft when inserted into the CV. I found it harder to insert the shaft when not putting it into the chamfered side. Also, there is a washer that goes on the shaft that is somewhat conical. Which direction does that washer face?
Kev 
Posted by: Gint Jan 22 2009, 10:09 PM
I'm wondering about the orientation of the inner race. Not sure this matters or not but I thought the chamfered inner edge would be flipped over from the way shown in your photo so to except the driveshaft when inserted into the CV. I found it harder to insert the shaft when not putting it into the chamfered side. Also, there is a washer that goes on the shaft that is somewhat conical. Which direction does that washer face?
Kev
What he said. I didn't nice that before. Shouldn't that go the other way?
Posted by: Gint Jan 22 2009, 10:16 PM
While I'm here, no groove for a retaining ring on the inside of the new axle shafts? No worries about the shaft floating out? Theoretically there shouldn't be an issue. but... a question for the hell of it.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 22 2009, 11:14 PM
Posted by: sixnotfour Jan 22 2009, 11:16 PM
Jon, just paint your shafts orange.
Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Jan 22 2009, 11:27 PM
I was thinking salmon would be fetching on them 
Posted by: JRust Jan 22 2009, 11:48 PM
Eric you showed me these a few months back. I definately need to get them on my car this spring. Moving my tranny back 1 1/2 to accomodate my firewall a little better. Then my 911 axles will really be short. Maybe I should have you get a set ready for me CV's on & all 
Posted by: PanelBilly Jan 23 2009, 12:20 AM
Thanks alot, now I have another item to add to the must have list.
Posted by: TC 914-8 Jan 23 2009, 12:44 AM
Thanks alot, now I have another item to add to the must have list.
Yep, Billy is right, this how it starts, Eric makes an excelent, "how to thread" and it gets added to the never ending list.
The last time Eric posted a caliper rebuild thread it cost me 500 bucks or more.
Thanks Eric, Great thread
I did some AC work for Sway-away years ago. I wish I knew then, I was going to need some of their products, now.
TI
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 23 2009, 08:32 AM
Both edges were chamfered on the 911 CV's.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 23 2009, 08:40 AM
Nada. It was explained to me that it was actually "healthier" for the CV to have a floating axle.
Paul has a similar setup on his 3.6. I'll let him weigh in here as well. His utilizes the later hubs with the centering ring. I believe he's using different CV's as well. All the same though... get the right length axles and the world is your oyster here.
This relates to Gint's question as well. The standard axles have a shelf that prevents the CV and axle from "full-floating" the Porsche axles do a semi-float because of this. This shelf is where your conical washer would normally go. With the Sway-a-Way axles they are allowed to full-float. This allows the CV's to find their natural center and actually handle more torque. This is a "biggy" with the off-road crowd.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 23 2009, 08:42 AM
http://www.swayaway.com/OffRoadRacing.php
Check Model 2421. It might be right for you.
Posted by: Steve Jan 9 2011, 01:59 PM
Paul used 108mm CV's, does anyone know by chance the part number of the transmission flange that works with the 108mm CV's? Can this flange work with both the 914 and 915 trans?
Thanks for the help!!!
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 9 2011, 02:09 PM
Those are actually 108's as well... I'll see if I can pull a number. You could Google Porsche Parts PDF and get it there. Use a 70-73 911 as an example (probably earlier as well but, not sure on the cutoff).
Posted by: Steve Jan 9 2011, 03:15 PM
According to the PET I came up with this list for the tranny flange
65-69 901.332.209.12
70 901.332.209.15 Chilled cast
70 901.332.209.21 Pressure cast
71 911.332.209.00
72-73 915.332.209.01
74-77 915.332.209.01
According to an old mid america catalog it lists the following:
7/68-9/71 108mm CV
1/75-86 100mm CV
87-89 100mm CV diferent part number than the 75-86 part number.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 9 2011, 04:46 PM
I think you're safe with any of these... they should all be coarse spline/108mm.
70 901.332.209.21 Pressure cast
71 911.332.209.00
72-73 915.332.209.01
Posted by: Steve Jan 9 2011, 04:50 PM
Thanks Eric!!
Can I use any one of these part numbers today in my 914 trans and then reuse them later someday if I upgrade to a late model 8:31 915?
Just curious!!
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 9 2011, 07:27 PM
If you get an early 915 that takes the coarse splines... yes. I think you're safe with anything up to 74 or 75 but there's probably someone a little more knowledgable on 915's here than I.
I "believe" the 76 915 was the first with a thinner spline and the smaller 6 bolt CV's.
Posted by: Steve Jan 9 2011, 09:40 PM
Thanks Eric!! I am curous what Paul is using, since he is using 108mm CV's with a 1977 915/61 Trans.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 9 2011, 09:51 PM
I "think" he's using later stuff all around. He can weigh in. He had to make spacers for his hub-centric hubs if I recall, that would make those later. 930 stuff would be the same 108mm size, The CV's are 6 bolt no-pin vs. 4 bolt 2-pin.
I've had a few early flanges machined to 6 bolt (Bob Burton, George Spencer and Andrew Mallagh come to mind) to accomodate new 930 CV's. The pin holes need to be drilled and tapped for the extra two bolts.
Posted by: racerbvd Jan 9 2011, 11:20 PM
Thanks Eric!!!
Posted by: Harpo Feb 23 2013, 04:26 PM
Behold my new 914 axles with 911 C/V joints and sway-away axles. However where can I find new boot clips? The originals have 74 oetiker stamped on them.
For those of you considering this route the C/V joints are pressed on the the axles and It took 500 psi with a press to separate them. Thanks for your help Eric.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Feb 23 2013, 04:58 PM
Those small clips do seem to have dried up. May have to use regular clamps.
Great Job BTW!! 
Posted by: davesprinkle Feb 23 2013, 05:18 PM
Oetiker clamps are available from McMaster-Carr. Search for "ear clamp".
Posted by: Harpo Feb 23 2013, 05:51 PM
I was not able to locate any "ear clamps" but I did find these
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-hose-clamps/=llxpjh
However I have to buy 25 so if anyone needs any let me know.
David
Posted by: Eric_Shea Feb 23 2013, 06:43 PM
http://www.mcmaster.com/#ear-hose-clamps/=llyeki
Dave always has good info. 
Posted by: PRS914-6 Feb 23 2013, 11:53 PM
The idea is to allow the axle to "float" and not put any side load on the CV's., only rotational load. This is much better for the CV's . The outside snap rings keep the axle from sliding too far either way. No internal ring is needed
Also, don't forget the 5mm spacer required for the stub axles. As you know, I prefer the hub centric style.
While I'm here, no groove for a retaining ring on the inside of the new axle shafts? No worries about the shaft floating out? Theoretically there shouldn't be an issue. but... a question for the hell of it.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Feb 23 2013, 11:59 PM
For those of you considering this route the C/V joints are pressed on the the axles and It took 500 psi with a press to separate them. Thanks for your help Eric.
Eric, the axles should slide in the CV's like a clutch and input shaft unless you are just talking about removing them from the stock axle. If you have to press the CV's on the new race axle you loose the self centering action they were designed to have.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Feb 24 2013, 10:11 AM
Paul, he bought complete cv/axle assemblies that had the 4 bolt 2 pin config. That's the only way to get those CVs these days. He had a tough time pressing them off the 911 axle. Sometimes they come right off. Sometimes they need a little "help".
Posted by: PRS914-6 Feb 24 2013, 10:24 AM
Paul, he bought complete cv/axle assemblies that had the 4 bolt 2 pin config. That's the only way to get those CVs these days. He had a tough time pressing them off the 911 axle. Sometimes they come right off. Sometimes they need a little "help".
OK, I was only worried about the fit on the new axle. Sometimes I have to press the old ones off too but they fit on easy over the new race axles
Posted by: Mark Henry Jul 2 2013, 11:34 AM
Behold my new 914 axles with 911 C/V joints and sway-away axles. However where can I find new boot clips? The originals have 74 oetiker stamped on them.
For those of you considering this route the C/V joints are pressed on the the axles and It took 500 psi with a press to separate them. Thanks for your help Eric.
I was going this route, but I'm thinking of using the later G50 CV, mainly because I'm a CSOB (would save me $150) and I should be able to figure out a solution for the gasket/end cap issue.
The G50 is 6 bolt X 10mm and has no relief for a gasket, but is suppose to be the same in all other regards.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/591069-cv-joint-axle-half-shaft-compatibility.html
Part number for the G50 CV is 911-332-923-01-M60
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911M§ion=SUSaxl&page=2&bookmark=6&part_number=911-332-923-01-M60
Only real issues is the 6 bolt 10mm vs 4 bolt 2 pin and no gasket. It looks like the 928 cap will not fit into the early flange/stub.
Posted by: tomeric914 Aug 21 2013, 08:52 PM
Adding to an already great thread...
Dimensions of a stock 914 transmission output flange
Overall length is 100mm
Total of 18 coarse splines
Posted by: chad newton Aug 22 2013, 08:06 PM
Ok, so what if you went with the newer style everything. Like for my 78 I have. Do I need to make an adapter to make the 6 bolt cv's fit the trans axles? Or is there a different way then that?
Posted by: tomeric914 Aug 22 2013, 08:25 PM
Ok, so what if you went with the newer style everything. Like for my 78 I have. Do I need to make an adapter to make the 6 bolt cv's fit the trans axles? Or is there a different way then that?
'75-'79 (or so) has smaller cost reduced CVs (100mm) versus the earlier 108mm.
Later 915 with the 100mm variety CV have fine spline which won't fit the 901 coarse spline output...
Posted by: PRS914-6 Aug 22 2013, 09:18 PM
More comparison photos. You can clearly see the ability to run more HP with the 911 goodies. I run the 108 four bolt/2 pin CV's No problems yet.
First, the Swayaway on the right side:
Posted by: PRS914-6 Aug 22 2013, 09:27 PM
Adding to an already great thread...
Dimensions of a stock 914 transmission output flange
Overall length is 100mm
Total of 18 coarse splines
Warning! There is an output flange that looks EXACTLY like stock with larger CV's. I believe but I am not sure that they came off the automatic version of the 901. It will slip right in, looks perfect but the center 35mm dimension is slightly smaller, perhaps 1mm. It would be easy to bolt in and go with pending failure to come....it's that close. So make sure you measure your parts!!! I almost installed a set but noticed they fit in a little loose.
Posted by: chad newton Aug 22 2013, 09:39 PM
Ok, so what if you went with the newer style everything. Like for my 78 I have. Do I need to make an adapter to make the 6 bolt cv's fit the trans axles? Or is there a different way then that?
'75-'79 (or so) has smaller cost reduced CVs (100mm) versus the earlier 108mm.
Later 915 with the 100mm variety CV have fine spline which won't fit the 901 coarse spline output...
So it would be all good if I ran a 915. I may not use them now, may keep them if I decide to go with a 915. Damn, what a pain in the a$$ this has been for me.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Aug 23 2013, 04:33 AM
With a 915, be prepared to spend $4k+ converting it to work in a 914.
Posted by: Mark Henry Aug 23 2013, 08:03 AM
For this you will need to get the 911-901 hubs, stubs and input shafts. Used prices vary but many like me have found these for around $300, but YMMV.
Be careful as the '69 and earlier 911-901 input shaft fits but is NFG and I believe some 915 coarse spline 108mm input shafts work, but the later fine spline does not.
Keep in mind that the CV boot flange (metal part) is NLA, not included in kits (but is included in full axles) and as rare as hens teeth....so make sure you get those as well. Don't worry if they are all bent up, as they can be straightened to serviceable condition quite easily.
The correct 1974 to mid-year 1975, 108mm CV (4-bolt, 2 pin) is NLA as a single, you can buy whole axles (press CV's off and toss the 911 axle, $454. for two axles on the bird) or you can modify'86-89 108mm, 6-bolt, G-50 CV's ($300. for 4 kits, includes CV, grease, boot straps and boot, but no CV boot flange).
911 axles are useless on a 914. Any way you go you have to buy the new axles from swayaway ($320) for this method.
Also if you have no bolts, washers, backing plates, gaskets.... that's an easy $100 if new.
You will also need two new rear bearings.
Now anyone considering doing this knows the whole price, no big surprises.
Then you need wheels and lugnuts... oh and the front end, brakes, caps, tires......
Posted by: chad newton Aug 23 2013, 12:12 PM
You guys are awesome. Thanks again.
Posted by: tomeric914 Aug 28 2013, 02:07 PM
BTW, I looked everywhere but couldn't find so I confirmed with Sway-a-way. The 2420 axles come with SAW's special circlips. Their catalog shows that you can buy them separately but they are not needed.
Also, I just purchased axles from Bugs and Buggies for $288 shipped. Note in the following link that the part number is correct for 28 spline axles, but the page description is wrong. http://www.bugsandbuggies.com/Parts.asp?CN=917&SN=2&GN=4
Posted by: tomeric914 Sep 25 2013, 08:54 PM
What size Oetiker clamp is on the small end?
I looked on PET and there is no small clamp listed. Were they required?
Posted by: SLITS Sep 26 2013, 07:26 AM
Clamps are used to keep hot grease from coming out and messing things up. They would also keep the boot from sliding off its' mounting point.
I have seen rebuilders us snap ties (aircraft ties) in lieu of the metal clamps.
Posted by: KTL Sep 29 2013, 10:02 AM
I've seen many racers use the simple plastic zip ties for securing CV boots. For people like us who service things quite regularly, the zip strips are the ticket. I think the Oetiker clamps are fantastic. But they're intended to be a longer-term/lifetime installation. Since we take things apart all the time, I think the zip strips are suitable.
I notice on the later 911 stub axles (both inboard on trans and outboard in trailing arm) the stubs have relieved/clearanced areas for the CV. Even the wimpy 100mm stubs have the cleared areas. Why is that?
All the stubs i've seen for high performance usage like dune buggy VW high performance racing abuse, where CVs take way more abuse than street driving or road racing, don't have the stubs cleared around the CV ball area. So the guys running the 108mm early 911 or 930 CV joints have no issue with CV ball clearance on their stubs I assume?
Thanks,
Kevin
Posted by: Mark Henry Sep 29 2013, 10:49 AM
I've seen many racers use the simple plastic zip ties for securing CV boots. For people like us who service things quite regularly, the zip strips are the ticket. I think the Oetiker clamps are fantastic. But they're intended to be a longer-term/lifetime installation. Since we take things apart all the time, I think the zip strips are suitable.
I notice on the later 911 stub axles (both inboard on trans and outboard in trailing arm) the stubs have relieved/clearanced areas for the CV. Even the wimpy 100mm stubs have the cleared areas. Why is that?
All the stubs i've seen for high performance usage like dune buggy VW high performance racing abuse, where CVs take way more abuse than street driving or road racing, don't have the stubs cleared around the CV ball area. So the guys running the 108mm early 911 or 930 CV joints have no issue with CV ball clearance on their stubs I assume?
Thanks,
Kevin
I hope I don't have to take them apart often, one dirty job I hate.
The CV stubs used in this application don't have the reliefs, those are later 911 made to fit the 928 cup they use instead of the paper grease seals.
Posted by: tomeric914 Sep 29 2013, 10:51 AM
I have seen rebuilders us snap ties (aircraft ties) in lieu of the metal clamps.
Yep, I've done that myself. Was just trying to be fancy this time.
Posted by: Harpo Sep 29 2013, 02:53 PM
Adding to an already great thread...
Dimensions of a stock 914 transmission output flange
Overall length is 100mm
Total of 18 coarse splines
One of my new (to me) trans out put flanges is 1mm small here. I'm going to add a shim to get rid of the slop
Posted by: KTL Sep 29 2013, 04:02 PM
I agree the CV grease/build job is a filthy one. But it's a part of regular maintenance with racing or regular track use in my opinion. An occasional regrease can make your CVs last nearly forever and avoid a failure. CV failure can be really ugly sometimes!
OEM CV cages are rather brittle and can break, plus the fit is rather tight in new CVs. Some polishing on the races and use of a chromoly cage makes them almost bulletproof. That said, use of a high end grease is key to them lasting. The "stock" grease like the tube from GKN with a new CV is junk. The grease goes thin right away due to the tight fit (creates heat) & the grease itself is a cheap economy EP grease.
I've seen the 928 derived CV grease caps. The late 930 CV (85.5-89) and 85.5-86 915, and all G50 use those caps. I've got 'em on my '87 911 and they're a nice feature vs. those pesky gaskets. But the 75-85 915 and thru-84 930 don't have the grease caps and both of those stubs have the relieved area for the CV cage/balls. See this tech bulletin for the switch from 100 to 108
I guess my point is, the dune buggies with severe angularity & loading like these
http://www.appletreeauto.com/TYPE-1-TO-930-STUB-AXLE-AC525100/
don't use stubs with reliefs but the factory Porsche stubs do? That seems odd. I can see the VW stubs have a deep bell to allow for more plunge. But that would lead me to believe the additional plunge would warrant some reliefs on the periphery of the stub axle flange. Apparently not.....
Posted by: PRS914-6 Sep 29 2013, 04:12 PM
See my warning about this size issue above. Get the correct ones. A shim won't work (for long). It's a critical fit and the shim will get beat to death..... but that's just my opinion as a machinist
Posted by: Harpo Sep 29 2013, 06:04 PM
I will post over @ pelican and see what comes up
David
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 13 2013, 01:11 PM
Behold my new 914 axles with 911 C/V joints and sway-away axles. However where can I find new boot clips? The originals have 74 oetiker stamped on them.
For those of you considering this route the C/V joints are pressed on the the axles and It took 500 psi with a press to separate them. Thanks for your help Eric.
I was going this route, but I'm thinking of using the later G50 CV, mainly because I'm a CSOB (would save me $150) and I should be able to figure out a solution for the gasket/end cap issue.
The G50 is 6 bolt X 10mm and has no relief for a gasket, but is suppose to be the same in all other regards.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/591069-cv-joint-axle-half-shaft-compatibility.html
Part number for the G50 CV is 911-332-923-01-M60
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911M§ion=SUSaxl&page=2&bookmark=6&part_number=911-332-923-01-M60
Only real issues is the 6 bolt 10mm vs 4 bolt 2 pin and no gasket. It looks like the 928 cap will not fit into the early flange/stub.
This is my solution, the late model G50 CV's that I have modified to accept the stock grease seal
The CV material was very hard (flame hardened) and could only be cut with carbide tooling.
I'll stick a length of rod in the 2 extra bolt holes to capture the roll pins, I may have to spread the roll pin slightly to ensure a tight fit in the CV.
Other than that it should fit like stock '74 CV's now, it will no longer need the 928 grease cap.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: naro914 Dec 13 2013, 01:42 PM
I think this might be a winter project of mine...been a LOOONG time since the axles have been serviced.
Question: Where do I find the CV gaskets? I'm sure if I looked hard I could find them, but it's easier to just ask... 
Posted by: Eric_Shea Dec 13 2013, 01:44 PM
CV Gaskets? Pretty common for say... a 1970 911.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 13 2013, 01:54 PM
CV Gaskets? Pretty common for say... a 1970 911.
Yes this is the stock 10mm 911 CV gasket.
If you look at the chart above the 1974 911 CV and the later G50 CV are almost the same, except the G50 doesn't have the gasket seal relief cut into it. The G50 uses the 928 grease cap, but that will not fit in the early 911 stubs.
The roll pin area of the stub you can keep it 4 bolt and 2 pins or it will have to be drilled and taped for the two extra bolts.
Posted by: KTL Dec 18 2013, 09:53 AM
Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.
Posted by: naro914 Jan 15 2014, 12:42 PM
so...got a question here...
I took apart all my CV joints, and they are all junk. balls and cages are scored. and the top plates (where the collar for the boots are) are beat to hell. So, I was just going to replace the entire CV joint, but if I read this correctly, PP sells them for $251 EACH!! P/N 911-332-032-02
But...if I get a complete axle, that comes with both CV joints, boots, etc. it's only $234 P/N 901-332-026-11
On PP: http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911E/POR_911E_SUSaxl_pg1.htm
What I can't figure out is...are these the right parts? It seems that the CV's (and top plates) are 6 bolt, not 4 bolt if you look at the pictures. (assuming the pics are correct)
Here's another thing...what I have in the car are stock 911 size axles. I think it's because we have different stub axles at the transmission - they stick out much more than normal (longer). Its what's always been on the car since we upgraded to 5 lug. What this means is...I can buy stock 911 full axle assembies. Question is...which ones?
So what I need are: 108 mm 4 bolt CV on stock 911 length axles. I guess the quick question is: is the picture on PP accurate?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2014, 01:16 PM
You're looking for the 1974 to mid-75 CV
The single price is outrageous.
Buy the whole half-shaft and press off the CV's and re- install them on the proper shaft.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/smart/more_info.cgi?pn=911-332-033-09-M60&catalog_description=&Complete%2520Axle%2520w%252Ftwo%2520CV%2520Joints%2520%2526%2520Boots%2520%2528bolts%2520not%2520included%2529%2520%2528Left%2520or%2520Right%252C%2520%2532%2520required%2520per%2520car%2529%252C%2520%2539%2531%2531%2520%2528%2531%2539%2537%2534%252D%2520mid%2520%2537%2535%2529%2520
Or cheaper is the late model G50 CV, but you have to drill and tap the stubs for the extra bolts (2 each CV) or do the mod I did.
I'll warn you on the trick I did, the CV's are hard as hell to cut in the seals and will add cost if you can't DIY.
I also did the mod my way (4 bolt/two roll pin/with gasket) and cut a relief to accept the gasket, without the gasket (the 6 bolt/no gasket method) may leak grease.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search.cgi?command=show_part_page&please_wait=N&make=POR&model=911M%C2%A7ion=SUSaxl&page=2&bookmark=6&part_number=911-332-923-01-M60
You must be using an adapter if you're using the 911 shaft, post some pic's so we can see what you have.
Posted by: naro914 Jan 15 2014, 01:36 PM
According to PP, (and other suppliers) the 69-mid 75 are the same...
No adapters
Top picture is my trans, bottom stock. See how the stub axle has a much bigger 'flange' than the stock one?
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2014, 01:51 PM
Pull out a bolt and see if it has a point/tit on the end. (post a pic)
Then pull stub out and post a pic of the input of the stub.
Don't turn the transmission stubs or input shaft when doing this.
If it does have a tit it's an early diff and they are not as strong as the later diff's. Also it could have the stubs from an early 911-901 and they are not good for a HP application.
I ran into this issue with an earlier 911-901 for my bug.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2014, 02:03 PM
Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.
sorry I didn't see this....
Sealant can be done, but it would be a PITA keep the grease off the sealant as you assembled the CV.
The way the gasket relief works it is still bolting steel to steel, the gasket sits in the relief.
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 15 2014, 02:15 PM
Complete Axles:
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/7396068/7781410.htm
Posted by: bulitt Jan 15 2014, 02:44 PM
Erc- what is your guess on the HP/torque rating of these? Thx.
Posted by: naro914 Jan 15 2014, 02:51 PM
Eric
What is the difference between them and 911-332-033-09? (which is what I meant to reference above in post #61, not the axle I listed) Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...
Mark
Diff is Guards LSD.
These are the stubs axles...and complete axles/CV's to be honest... that have been on the car for many, many years...converted to 5 lug back in mid 90's and never have changed anything to be honest...
Any way to just get all the bearings/cages for the CV's?? I can just put it all back together with new bearings/cages/races...
All the inner races have issues like this....didn't even bother cleaning off the bearings..
Posted by: KTL Jan 15 2014, 03:09 PM
Instead of machining the CV and using the gasket, why not apply some sealant to the exterior of the joint after it's assembled? Reason I suggest that is because the gaskets tend to compress over time and allow the clamping force to be lessened, sometimes quite a lot. Just a thought.
sorry I didn't see this....
Sealant can be done, but it would be a PITA keep the grease off the sealant as you assembled the CV.
The way the gasket relief works it is still bolting steel to steel, the gasket sits in the relief.
Thanks for the thoughts on what I mentioned. My thinking was applying the sealant after you've got the axles bolted in. Wipe off the grease, put some masking tape around the joint on each side. Put some sealant on there and then peel off the tape. Sounds easy but that's assuming the axles stay in place for a while. If the axles are occasionally removed, the sealant is a PITA.
Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2014, 04:37 PM
Eric
What is the difference between them and 911-332-033-09? (which is what I meant to reference above in post #61, not the axle I listed) Looking at yours, it looks like 6 bolt too...
Mark
Diff is Guards LSD.
These are the stubs axles...and complete axles/CV's to be honest... that have been on the car for many, many years...converted to 5 lug back in mid 90's and never have changed anything to be honest...
Any way to just get all the bearings/cages for the CV's?? I can just put it all back together with new bearings/cages/races...
All the inner races have issues like this....didn't even bother cleaning off the bearings..
Bob review posts #37 and # 44 of this thread...I want you to pull a stub and compare the shaft to a stock /4 stub. The early stub will work, but a lot of it is unsupported and could eventually fail. If it failed it would take out your diff.
Posted by: naro914 Jan 15 2014, 05:11 PM
Mark, will have to wait till the weekend when I can get up to the shop. Not sure where you're going with this? What stubs are you thinking these are? They have been on this car in an all track/race environment for over 15 years now with an engine that's now over 350 hp and never had an issue...
If I remember correctly, they are much "beefier" than the ones on the spare trans I have, I'll have to check and take pictures.
FYI, these were not out on by me, they were from my race mechanic at the time...
Posted by: pcar916 Jan 15 2014, 06:05 PM
... Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!
It's easy when you leave the stub-axle attached to the CV/axle and just remove the outer nut... comes out whole. I haven't used gaskets in more years than I can remember. But it does take care to keep the fields apart.
I've used 914, 911, and 930 CV's with various axles. I'd use 108's except the weight difference is huge. I've now stuck with 944 CV"s (100's) and leave it at that as my (IMHO) balance between weight/longevity.
But I'm only sportin' 270hp.
Good luck!
Posted by: naro914 Jan 15 2014, 07:01 PM
Mark
Just re-read what I wrote and it sounded a bit defiant..wasn't meant to be, I was typing on my iPhone.... My only plan for this project was originally to just re-pack/clean up the CV's, not redesign the entire axle set up. What I have has worked for many years, so much so that this is the first time I've ever even given them a thought. Since I found that my CVs are toast, I just want to replace what's needed.... If that means new complete axle assemblies so I can get the CVs (and the cheapest solution) then that's what I'll do.
But, in the interest of discovery and learning, I'll try to get the stubs off this weekend and post pics with measurements...
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 15 2014, 11:22 PM
Mark
Just re-read what I wrote and it sounded a bit defiant..wasn't meant to be, I was typing on my iPhone.... My only plan for this project was originally to just re-pack/clean up the CV's, not redesign the entire axle set up. What I have has worked for many years, so much so that this is the first time I've ever even given them a thought. Since I found that my CVs are toast, I just want to replace what's needed.... If that means new complete axle assemblies so I can get the CVs (and the cheapest solution) then that's what I'll do.
But, in the interest of discovery and learning, I'll try to get the stubs off this weekend and post pics with measurements...
I didn't even read this till now...not answering right away I wasn't mad or anything...I was out for the evening.
Posted by: KTL Jan 16 2014, 08:59 AM
... Sealant in general is easy to do on the trans side. Not so easy on the trailing arm/wheel side!
It's easy when you leave the stub-axle attached to the CV/axle and just remove the outer nut... comes out whole.
Good point about removing the outer nut at the stub axle & doing the sealant gig w/the stub axle on the bench. Thanks for the slapjack upside the head to jostle my occasional one-track-mind perspective!
Posted by: Eric_Shea Jan 16 2014, 10:13 AM
No, you can see the two pins sticking out clearly in the photo so, 4 bolts, 2 pins.
This is the only way I know of to get the 4 bolt 911 CV's now. Buy the complete axle and replace with the free floating Sway-a-Way axle.
Nope. Check Mark's pictures earlier in this thread. Some "Sporto" flanges are longer.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2014, 11:25 PM
Ok some pics on thisfirst it's not just a "sporto' flange as the 1969 and earlier had the longer flange as well
BTW sorry about the focus on the first couple of pics...Sir Andy taught me how to use the camera.
Left to right 914/4, 1970 911 108mm with 10mm bolts, 1969 "sporto" style
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2014, 11:27 PM
Difference in shaft lengths between the 1970 901 flange and the "sporto" flange
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2014, 11:31 PM
This is the 1970 911/901 flange sitting in a 914-901 diff. Note the pencil, the flange sits down flush against the diff at the bearing carrier. There actually is a couple thousands clearance.
BTW the 914/4 flange sits down exactly the same as in this pic.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2014, 11:35 PM
This is the "sporto" (1969 901) flange sitting in the same 914-901 diff. notice the large gap. I also noticed the later bolt doesn't catch as many threads.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 19 2014, 11:45 PM
Oh.... and a bit of axle porn.
Fully loaded and ready to go.
The 928 end caps are just on there temporary to keep things clean.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 20 2014, 07:59 AM
One question I have and I guess I should email Swayaway
Are they directional?
I notice that the one axle is marked "R" and the other one "L", both are only marked on one end.
I know left and right... I'm guessing left outside and right outside?
If you look at my axles the green tape is telling which end is marked, so I don't have to go digging in the new grease to find the marks later.
Posted by: Mark Henry Jan 20 2014, 01:17 PM
Yes the Swayaway axles are directional. Got an reply from Swayaway.
The end stamp and the L/R must be placed on the correct side and facing out.
The axles do have a definite twist that must be correctly orientated.
Posted by: Qarl Apr 16 2014, 10:38 PM
Mark,
What did you end up using for an end-cap for the G50 CVs?
What part fit?
Posted by: bdstone914 Apr 17 2014, 06:25 PM
Read through this thread and understand the options discussed.
I think I found another option. Using VW Bus CV joints (100 MM) on 914 axles with 911 100mm stub axles, 911 hubs and 911 output flanges. Tried a bus CV I had and it fits on the 914 axle. Bus CV's are about $50 each for Lobro and less modification is needed.
Posted by: 76-914 Apr 17 2014, 09:24 PM
![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: get off my lawn Apr 18 2014, 03:41 AM
Huh uh huh uh, he said Schnorr.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Apr 18 2014, 08:49 AM
Mark,
What did you end up using for an end-cap for the G50 CVs?
What part fit?
You can't use the end caps, although I did use the 928/G50 end caps in the pics to keep my uninstalled, cleaned, loaded and greased axle/CV assembles clean. I will remove the 928 end caps when I install the axles.
I cut my CV's for the factory grease seal/gaskets, but the CV material is hard as hell and I went through several carbide tool inserts. In retrospect I'd just leave the seals out and use a good sealant instead.
Posted by: 396 Apr 18 2014, 08:53 AM
Great info!
Thanks
Posted by: Larmo63 Apr 18 2014, 09:12 AM
Eric, what would the cost be of these shipped to SoCal........?
Posted by: bdstone914 Apr 18 2014, 12:02 PM
Read through this thread and understand the options discussed.
I think I found another option. Using VW Bus CV joints (100 MM) on 914 axles with 911 100mm stub axles, 911 hubs and 911 output flanges. Tried a bus CV I had and it fits on the 914 axle. Bus CV's are about $50 each for Lobro and less modification is needed.
I checked out the use of VW Bus CV's a little more. They are the same dimensions as the 944 CV's. SirAndy has a thread on how to do this. It does fit the 914 axle but requires the axles to be machined. Looks like a slightly lower cost alternative to bigger CV's if you are going five lug.
The CV with grease is the 944.
Attached thumbnail(s)
Posted by: Mark Henry Nov 7 2014, 08:44 AM
Adding to an already great thread...
Dimensions of a stock 914 transmission output flange
Overall length is 100mm
Total of 18 coarse splines
One of my new (to me) trans out put flanges is 1mm small here. I'm going to add a shim to get rid of the slop
Wear can be an issue on these old stubs.
I had one of my stubs hard chromed and ground back to the proper size, cost me $70.
Correction I had this done to one of my wheel hubs, not the tranny output flange.
Posted by: restore2seater Feb 25 2015, 06:35 PM
Mark, Paul, Eric or anyone able to verify this:
I have a couple axle flanges that have the 901332209/21 number stamped on them. But when I compare the measurements from the diagram in post 37 they don't match. The diameters of the 2 machined parts are the same. 35 mm and 45 mm. However the height of the 2 surfaces are different. The 22 mm is closer to 16 or 17 mm and the 36 mm is closer to 41 or 42 mm.
Makes me think they are for the 1969 sportomatic that Paul and Mark is referring to that look similar but have different dimensions than the 1970 part.
Question is: are the stamping numbers on the flanges irrelevant to what year the part is from?
Posted by: tomeric914 Feb 15 2016, 10:22 AM
Has anyone who has done this conversion had any issue with interference with the CV hub inside the trailing arm? I finally got a chance to install them last night. Everything was going all too well until the stub axle wouldn't turn. Loosen up the axle nut a little and it rotates metal on metal. 
Posted by: jmill Feb 15 2016, 11:54 AM
Also, don't forget the 5mm spacer required for the stub axles. As you know, I prefer the hub centric style.
Do you have later style stub axles? No idea if that's the problem or where the spacer goes. I bought this setup from Eric several years ago and haven't installed it yet.
I'm still wondering if my transmission flanges are the correct ones. I'll have to check and see.
Posted by: horizontally-opposed Feb 15 2016, 12:03 PM
Yes the Swayaway axles are directional. Got an reply from Swayaway.
The end stamp and the L/R must be placed on the correct side and facing out.
The axles do have a definite twist that must be correctly orientated.
Once that tape is removed, is there any way to tell which axle is which?
Had my Sway-a-Ways redone in black when the CV boots failed.
Thanks!
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 15 2016, 02:16 PM
Yes the Swayaway axles are directional. Got an reply from Swayaway.
The end stamp and the L/R must be placed on the correct side and facing out.
The axles do have a definite twist that must be correctly orientated.
Once that tape is removed, is there any way to tell which axle is which?
Had my Sway-a-Ways redone in black when the CV boots failed.
Thanks!
The axle is stamped, marked "L" and the other one "R", both are marked only on one end. The part number is also marked on the same end.
The part number and stamp need to go towards the outside of the car and can only twist in the one direction.
So L is the drivers side (left), mark to the outside. Therefore R is the passanger side (right) mark to the outside.
That info is direct from Eric Andres at Sway-a-Way
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 15 2016, 02:34 PM
Mark, Paul, Eric or anyone able to verify this:
I have a couple axle flanges that have the 901332209/21 number stamped on them. But when I compare the measurements from the diagram in post 37 they don't match. The diameters of the 2 machined parts are the same. 35 mm and 45 mm. However the height of the 2 surfaces are different. The 22 mm is closer to 16 or 17 mm and the 36 mm is closer to 41 or 42 mm.
Makes me think they are for the 1969 sportomatic that Paul and Mark is referring to that look similar but have different dimensions than the 1970 part.
Question is: are the stamping numbers on the flanges irrelevant to what year the part is from?
I don't know other than VW/porsche stamping numbers can sometimes be whacked. Unless it's a 9 digit number that starts with a 901 or 911 it's not a known part number.
The best thing is to look at my post #77 for a visual comparison and Tomeric914 post #37 for the correct dimensions.
Posted by: PRS914-6 Feb 15 2016, 03:22 PM
The L or R is typically stamped on only one end. It's only a reference mark and each axle is identical when manufactured. But the axle should be installed so that the markings are on the inside flange. If it was originally installed with the mark on the outside, it should be reinstalled that way. If they have been used in low horsepower applications it's probably irrelevant. If they have been wound up like a pretzel many times and then get reversed or swapped side to side they can snap.
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 15 2016, 03:44 PM
My exact C&P email conversation with Eric Anders at Sway-a-Way
Axle orientation
3 messages
Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 9:19 AM
To: tech@swayaway.com
One quick question I have is are the axles directional?
I have part number 2420 that I bought direct from you last summer, they are new. I notice that the one axle is marked "L" and the other one "R", both are only marked on one end. I've heard they take a twist.
I know left and right... I'm guessing left outside and right outside?
Thanks
--
Cheers Mark
===============================================
Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:05 PM
To: Mark H <***@gmail.com>
The part number and stamp need to go towards the outside and can only twist in the one direction.
Eric Andres
818.700.9712, ext. 230
Sway-A-Way, Inc.
9667 Owensmouth Ave., Unit 100
Chatsworth, CA 91311
================================================
[Quoted text hidden]
Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:12 PM
To: Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com>
That's what I thought, thanks
Posted by: naro914 Feb 15 2016, 03:52 PM
My exact C&P email conversation with Eric Anders at Sway-a-Way
Axle orientation
3 messages
Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 9:19 AM
To: tech@swayaway.com
One quick question I have is are the axles directional?
I have part number 2420 that I bought direct from you last summer, they are new. I notice that the one axle is marked "L" and the other one "R", both are only marked on one end. I've heard they take a twist.
I know left and right... I'm guessing left outside and right outside?
Thanks
--
Cheers Mark
===============================================
Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:05 PM
To: Mark H <***@gmail.com>
The part number and stamp need to go towards the outside and can only twist in the one direction.
Eric Andres
818.700.9712, ext. 230
Sway-A-Way, Inc.
9667 Owensmouth Ave., Unit 100
Chatsworth, CA 91311
================================================
Mark H <***@gmail.com> Mon, Jan 20, 2014 at 2:12 PM
To: Eric Andres <eric@swayaway.com>
That's what I thought, thanks
That's exactly what he told me too when I replaced my axles with SwayAway - letters on the outside.
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 15 2016, 04:31 PM
Paul in re-reading the exchange, my answers, I see where some confusion may have occurred:
In post #97 is a direct answer to markings on Sway-a-Way axles.
In post #98 it was in regards to a question on casting numbers on a factory transmission output flange.
Does that clear things up?
Posted by: tomeric914 Feb 17 2016, 08:59 AM
Hmm, this doesn't seem right. Is there a part number for this 5mm spacer?
Also, they reference hub centric which usually refers to a wheel spacer which centers the wheel on the hub.
Also, don't forget the 5mm spacer required for the stub axles. As you know, I prefer the hub centric style.
Do you have later style stub axles? No idea if that's the problem or where the spacer goes. I bought this setup from Eric several years ago and haven't installed it yet.
I'm still wondering if my transmission flanges are the correct ones. I'll have to check and see.
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 17 2016, 09:53 AM
I seem to think there was a spacer, but honestly it was 2 years ago and I could be wrong.
Posted by: mepstein Feb 17 2016, 10:00 AM
I think people had the spacers made. I don't believe 69-73 need spacers.
Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 17 2016, 01:12 PM
I think people had the spacers made. I don't believe 69-73 need spacers.
I've been advised to use an old bearing inner race to make the 5mm spacer to fit my 911SC hubs/flanges to the 914 arms but I have no idea what year they are. My car is a 71 - I can do some measuring and find out though. I've still got a while before I install these so if anyone has some info that would help, I'd appreciate it. This thread has already steered me in the right direction for a 5 lug setup and now I've got everything I need- the upgraded brakes will be a big bonus too! I know, I know... brakes don't stop the car - the tires do. Yeah, I've got bigger ones of those too...
Posted by: mepstein Feb 17 2016, 01:33 PM
I mean when you use 69-73 911 parts.
Posted by: Justinp71 Feb 17 2016, 01:56 PM
Fyi, you can use 911 axles if you use the adapters from Patrick's motorsports along with the axle spacer kit. I have been running them for 5 years or so. The key is to use the cv end caps instead of any gaskets. the stock 914 gaskets kept wanting to crush out.
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/rear-axle-joint-flange-adapter-set-porsche-901-914-transmission/
Posted by: mgp4591 Feb 17 2016, 03:23 PM
Fyi, you can use 911 axles if you use the adapters from Patrick's motorsports along with the axle spacer kit. I have been running them for 5 years or so. The key is to use the cv end caps instead of any gaskets. the stock 914 gaskets kept wanting to crush out.
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/rear-axle-joint-flange-adapter-set-porsche-901-914-transmission/
Thanks, but I'm using the Subaru trans so I'll have to mix and match....
Posted by: tomeric914 Feb 18 2016, 11:36 AM
Hmm, the stubs I'm using came from a '71.
I mean when you use 69-73 911 parts.
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 18 2016, 11:47 AM
Fyi, you can use 911 axles if you use the adapters from Patrick's motorsports along with the axle spacer kit. I have been running them for 5 years or so. The key is to use the cv end caps instead of any gaskets. the stock 914 gaskets kept wanting to crush out.
http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/rear-axle-joint-flange-adapter-set-porsche-901-914-transmission/
Many of us know that, this whole thread is about the strongest possible 914/901 5 bolt conversion method with no adaptors.
Posted by: 6freak Feb 18 2016, 12:12 PM
I see frosty balls in the first few pictures ..those are shot , and I would never have rebuilt a CV with them..premature failure is immanent! ...good bearings are mirror shiney
and im not trying to bash anyone ...just the facts
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 18 2016, 12:43 PM
I see frosty balls in the first few pictures ..those are shot , and I would never have rebuilt a CV with them..premature failure is immanent! ...good bearings are mirror shiney
and im not trying to bash anyone ...just the facts
What the fuck are you talking about?....hey wait a minute
Keep your comments about my Canadian testicles out of this topic 
Posted by: 6freak Feb 18 2016, 02:58 PM
Pardon me the proper term is Etching...around here we always called them frosty
Posted by: 6freak Feb 18 2016, 03:19 PM
I mentioned it a few years back about the condinsation in bearings and it causing microscopic explosions because you cant compress water...someone asked what i was smoken haha...i dont think they believed me ,but its true
Mike
Posted by: Mark Henry Feb 18 2016, 03:36 PM
Did you get it that I was joking about frosted balls?
Maybe you do need some 
Posted by: 6freak Feb 18 2016, 04:00 PM
Did you get it that I was joking about frosted balls?
Maybe you do need some
I did! and it was funny.... is it still frosty balls cold up there
and no i dont need to
id never get anything done and all the cheetos would be gone in my house and at the corner store.. so anyway in the first couple pictures you can see 4 shiney balls and 2 etched balls that are bad,they`ll work for a short time but wont last longMike
Posted by: tomeric914 Feb 20 2016, 01:15 PM
Hang on a second though, I don't think this is my problem. The 911 hub to stub axle width dimension I measure where it slips into the bearing is 37mm like it should be.
The problem I have is that the 108mm diameter is rubbing on the inside of the 914 control arm. The cause may be my 911 handbrake. I fabbed and welded a bellcrank to the bottom of the control arm. The heat added was just enough to distort the metal and cause the contact. A dremel and a few mini sanding drums and a mirror was all it took to get the clearance needed. The concern now is how much does the hub expand once it all warms up. That just might suck.
Also, in rebuilding the CV joint boots, the Oetikers that Pelican stocks are roughly 74mm which don't fit the boot plates I have, even when fully crimped. With the boots installed, mine measure about 66.5mm. Apparently, there was a change some time in the early 70's to the larger 74mm. I found 2-3/4" (71mm) Oetikers at MSCDirect and they upgraded my shipping to Next Day UPS. http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/48549729
The inner boot location measures about 33mm so a 1-3/8" Oetiker (34.6mm) should work http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/48549364
Posted by: Cupomeat Feb 21 2016, 12:00 PM
That sucks. And tough to get in there to grind some metal off. 
Posted by: tomeric914 Mar 2 2016, 08:12 AM
For clarification, the 31 ft-lb torque spec in Eric's original post are correct for CVs which have six M8 bolts.
For CVs with four M10 bolts, the correct torque spec is 61 ft-lb.
A quick reference to the "good book" and let the torquing commence:
Posted by: thenewgarage Nov 30 2016, 08:33 AM
I have a few questions in regards to building this axle set up. These will be installed into a 1970 914-6.
I thought I had the correct donor axles in storage and began taking them apart. I was excited to get all messy so I took them apart before measuring... turns out they measure to 110 - so they are from a 74 or so 911. Am I correct in assuming these will not work on a 914 - issues with the trailing arms, etc.?
At some point in this thread a few people suggested to buy a new 108 axle set up for a pre-74 911 with CV's installed - press off the CV's and install them on the correct length axles - I will be running the Sway Away 20.25" axles
In other words...
Buy a new set of 911 108mm axles with CV's...
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/7396068/7781410.htm
Take the hardware off and install them on the Sway Away
https://swayaway.com/product/axle-set-porsche-930-20-14-long-28-spline/
Then source the correct 108 mm Stub Axles and Trans Flanges.
So...how does my logic sound here? Sometimes it can be off so your advice is appreciated!
Thanks!
Posted by: Steve Nov 30 2016, 10:20 AM
Looks good to me. You might want to call up PMB and ask. Those cv's according to the pictures have the two pins for the early flanges and stub axles. My car is a hodgepodge. I'm running an 86 915 trans with late model 108mm flanges that don't use pins. On the outside I'm running 108mm 1973 911 stub axles and cv'S. Using the swayaway axles. It would of been nice to use more modern cv's on the outside.
Posted by: thenewgarage Dec 2 2016, 08:32 AM
Thank you Steve!
Another quick question...sourcing pre-74 running gear parts. I found a set of 108mm trans flanges but they have a 915 part number - 915.332.209.01. These are 72-on according to PET. From my initial inspection these should work - 4 bolt, everything appear to be the same to be (don't have them in my hand so take that with a grain of salt).
Can anyone confirm that these will not present an issue? I do not have enough experience with the differences between the units through -71 (911.332.209.00) and the 72-on (915.332.209.01). Are the teeth the same on the transmission side? Is it nothing more than a superseded part number? Going into a stock 914-6 trans that will be built by Dr. Evil.
Thanks!
Posted by: Harpo Dec 2 2016, 07:13 PM
I have 110mm on my car. Works just fine and I got the C/V from Eric
Posted by: Steve Dec 2 2016, 07:21 PM
72 was the first year for the 915 gear box. You want 901 coarse spline 108mm flanges. The fine spline 108's are for the 915 and won't work.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 2 2016, 07:29 PM
In other words...
Buy a new set of 911 108mm axles with CV's...
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/7396068/7781410.htm
Take the hardware off and install them on the Sway Away
https://swayaway.com/product/axle-set-porsche-930-20-14-long-28-spline/
Then source the correct 108 mm Stub Axles and Trans Flanges.
So...how does my logic sound here? Sometimes it can be off so your advice is appreciated!
Thanks!
Correct, buying the complete axle set gets you the boots (with the flanges) and the CV's. You need 2 axle sets for a total of 4 CV's and 4 CV boots.
The CV boot flanges are the kicker here as they are NLA, you can buy the bare boot cheap, but only if you have the flanges.
Then you could buy the boots and the G50 CV. It's bit cheaper this way if you already have the flanges.
Either way you still have to buy the Sway-a-Way axles.
Posted by: thenewgarage Dec 2 2016, 08:57 PM
OK I will hold out to find a set of flanges that are 108 with the 911 part number to ensure it will be correct.
Thank you everyone for the information - much appreciated! 
Now to post a wanted ad!
In other words...
Buy a new set of 911 108mm axles with CV's...
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/7396068/7781410.htm
Take the hardware off and install them on the Sway Away
https://swayaway.com/product/axle-set-porsche-930-20-14-long-28-spline/
Then source the correct 108 mm Stub Axles and Trans Flanges.
So...how does my logic sound here? Sometimes it can be off so your advice is appreciated!
Thanks!
Correct, buying the complete axle set gets you the boots (with the flanges) and the CV's. You need 2 axle sets for a total of 4 CV's and 4 CV boots.
The CV boot flanges are the kicker here as they are NLA, you can buy the bare boot cheap, but only if you have the flanges.
Then you could buy the boots and the G50 CV. It's bit cheaper this way if you already have the flanges.
Either way you still have to buy the Sway-a-Way axles.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 2 2016, 09:36 PM
Better luck finding that part on pelican than here.
OK I will hold out to find a set of flanges that are 108 with the 911 part number to ensure it will be correct.
Thank you everyone for the information - much appreciated!
Now to post a wanted ad!
In other words...
Buy a new set of 911 108mm axles with CV's...
http://www.pmbperformance.com/catalog/item/7396068/7781410.htm
Take the hardware off and install them on the Sway Away
https://swayaway.com/product/axle-set-porsche-930-20-14-long-28-spline/
Then source the correct 108 mm Stub Axles and Trans Flanges.
So...how does my logic sound here? Sometimes it can be off so your advice is appreciated!
Thanks!
Correct, buying the complete axle set gets you the boots (with the flanges) and the CV's. You need 2 axle sets for a total of 4 CV's and 4 CV boots.
The CV boot flanges are the kicker here as they are NLA, you can buy the bare boot cheap, but only if you have the flanges.
Then you could buy the boots and the G50 CV. It's bit cheaper this way if you already have the flanges.
Either way you still have to buy the Sway-a-Way axles.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 2 2016, 09:47 PM
Better luck finding that part on pelican than here.
Yup.... and when they were last available they were quite spendy. Likely the main reason for the new half-shaft complete assemblies.
The price for just the NOS CV boot flanges was one of those "holy crap" Porsche moments.
Posted by: mepstein Dec 3 2016, 08:33 AM
Better luck finding that part on pelican than here.
Yup.... and when they were last available they were quite spendy. Likely the main reason for the new half-shaft complete assemblies.
The price for just the NOS CV boot flanges was one of those "holy crap" Porsche moments.
Mark - what boot flange are you referring to? A replacement rubber cv boot runs $4. Not nos but ... What am I missing here.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 3 2016, 11:57 AM
Better luck finding that part on pelican than here.
Yup.... and when they were last available they were quite spendy. Likely the main reason for the new half-shaft complete assemblies.
The price for just the NOS CV boot flanges was one of those "holy crap" Porsche moments.
Mark - what boot flange are you referring to? A replacement rubber cv boot runs $4. Not nos but ... What am I missing here.
The metal part of the CV boot, the rubber part is cheap.
VW/914 you get the whole CV boot, pressed together as one unit.
But if you order a CV boot for a 108mm 911 CV all you get is the rubber bit.
And IIRC a strap, no metal flange.
BTW if you do have the metal CV boot flanges and they are bent to crap DO NOT TOSS THEM, they are accually quite easy to straighten.
Posted by: Mark Henry Dec 3 2016, 12:09 PM
Just checked my stock, no strap even, just the rubber boot.
Attached image(s)
Posted by: mepstein Dec 3 2016, 12:56 PM
Do you mean these? They sell for around $20
Attached image(s)
Posted by: bradtho Jan 8 2017, 03:52 PM
I've read this thread many times over the past several years. Been collecting parts for some time and now ready to put it all together. I sourced some vintage 911 axles, but the CV's weren't great so I bought a pair of new axles from PP. Comparing the vintage to new CV's today they are both 108mm, but otherwise the dimensions are quite different. Most concerning is the height which measures 39mm on the vintage and 31mm on the new.
Does this affect the correct length of the axle?
for reference, there was talk of buying the new axles for the CV's in posts #61-76 but no mention of the differences. here's a couple shots of the CV's left is vintage, right is new from PP.
Posted by: mepstein Jan 8 2017, 04:05 PM
Eric can correct me if I'm wrong but since the sway a way axles are meant to float, I don't think the with of the cv's matter. You will need shorter cv bolts, something I've had difficulty finding.
Posted by: Steve Jan 8 2017, 07:06 PM
Eric can correct me if I'm wrong but since the sway a way axles are meant to float, I don't think the with of the cv's matter. You will need shorter cv bolts, something I've had difficulty finding.
That's what I'm running on my car. Thin 108mm on the inside (transaxle flanges) and fat 1973, 108mm on the outside with sway away axles. They float on the axles.
Posted by: 914Sixer Jan 8 2017, 08:23 PM
I am going to run 911 SC stub axles, they are 100mm. Same size (100mm) as the VW Bus and 944. You will need the 100mm Coarse spline flanges from a early 915 transmission. You can order the shafts or cut 4mm off the stock 914 shafts. Bus boots and 944 are one in the same. Bus CV have 17 degrees articulation and the 944 has 22 degrees. Either one is over kill because the stock 914 is only 12 degrees.
Posted by: bradtho Jan 8 2017, 08:52 PM
That's what I'm running on my car. Thin 108mm on the inside (transaxle flanges) and fat 1973, 108mm on the outside with sway away axles. They float on the axles.
Steve, looks like you're running the long bolts on the short side. no clearance issues there? I assume that may not be the case on the stub hub side.
Posted by: Steve Jan 8 2017, 09:58 PM
That's what I'm running on my car. Thin 108mm on the inside (transaxle flanges) and fat 1973, 108mm on the outside with sway away axles. They float on the axles.
Steve, looks like you're running the long bolts on the short side. no clearance issues there? I assume that may not be the case on the stub hub side.
Not applicable for you. I'm running a 1986 915 gear box. It's a one year gear box with 108mm flanges. All the parts for this side are available new from Porsche.
Posted by: KTL Jan 12 2017, 10:45 AM
Just to add more fuel to the fire, has anyone seen the racing style accordion-less boots used in a street car application? Go down the list and click on the Lobro 108mm CV boot listing
http://www.taylor-race.com/items.cfm?category=Drive%20Axle%20Components&subcategory1=CV%20Joints&subcategory2=Boots%2C%20CV
I suspect since these type of boots are intended for open wheel formula cars, the boot doesn't allow for a lot of angularity? I don't think the lack of an accordion is a big issue since the accordions are more of a feature for a FWD-like application where the CV actually pivots?
Posted by: jd74914 Jan 12 2017, 11:49 AM
Just to add more fuel to the fire, has anyone seen the racing style accordion-less boots used in a street car application? Go down the list and click on the Lobro 108mm CV boot listing
http://www.taylor-race.com/items.cfm?category=Drive%20Axle%20Components&subcategory1=CV%20Joints&subcategory2=Boots%2C%20CV
I suspect since these type of boots are intended for open wheel formula cars, the boot doesn't allow for a lot of angularity? I don't think the lack of an accordion is a big issue since the accordions are more of a feature for a FWD-like application where the CV actually pivots?
Never seen them on a non-open wheel.
This isn't directly applicable since I've never used the 108mm models, but I haven't been pleased with the longevity of the smaller ones on a few open wheeled race cars. The centers tend to tear pretty easily, even on a car with low shaft angularity. We actually went to bellowed ATV boots for greater reliability at lower cost.
Edit: Meant to add: All of the other Taylor Race stuff is great (as is their customer service)-and Scotty is the man!
Posted by: KTL Jan 12 2017, 02:17 PM
Never seen them on a non-open wheel.
This isn't directly applicable since I've never used the 108mm models, but I haven't been pleased with the longevity of the smaller ones on a few open wheeled race cars. The centers tend to tear pretty easily, even on a car with low shaft angularity. We actually went to bellowed ATV boots for greater reliability at lower cost.
Edit: Meant to add: All of the other Taylor Race stuff is great (as is their customer service)-and Scotty is the man!
Thanks for sharing your personal experience with the bellow-less boots. I suspect I happened to stumble across them by doing a google search. Didn't want to give them a blind try for $55 each!
Posted by: bradtho Jan 22 2017, 10:09 PM
I thought I'd follow up on my own question for any future readers. I had some new CV bolts from PMB. With the flange and gasket in place the length was fine using the newer/thinner CV's. Not sure if the bolts would have been long enough for the older/fatter CV's.
Also, I got confirmation from a local Porsche shop that the float compensates for the difference in the CV's and that it shouldn't be an issue.
here's some gratuitous axle porn...
Posted by: colingreene May 21 2017, 06:12 PM
Just checked my stock, no strap even, just the rubber boot.
Mark, is that the boot your running on your car>?
The reason i ask is that i ordered boots twice from AZ autohaus and got the wrong one.
maybe that makes me stupid but Im just trying to find the right boot so i can get my rear axle situation sorted out.
Or could you guys tell me what the diameter of the flange where the boot hits it.
mine is 2.55 inches od on the flange. every boot i get fits inside of the flange and thats wrong.
Posted by: ManuFromParis Aug 4 2020, 09:58 AM
It looks like swayaway is un reachable...
https://swayaway.com/
But this website seems to sell the correct axles :
https://www.racereadyproducts.com/axles/sway-a-way-irs-axles/
Posted by: Boydyrs Mar 23 2023, 02:26 AM
So I’m a new to all things 914 and looking go 5 stud.
I’ve read both threads 2 or 3 times, brilliant work.
I have front and rear 5 lug suspension from a ‘78/‘79 911sc so its an easy swap over except for rear.
So I’m thinking why not just make up a 28mm steel spacer that will fit between the gearbox flange and the 911 axel?
Obviously one end will be drilled for the 100mm 911 CV and the 108mm flange with countersunk bolts?
Any reason why that wouldn’t work?
Posted by: live free & drive Mar 23 2023, 08:52 AM
Maybe you are looking for an adaptor like this:
https://patrickmotorsports.com/products/dri914332209pms
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