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Posted by: McMark Feb 19 2004, 09:54 AM

Spent all yesterday planning my engine and wanted to share. I'm building a 2056 with 96 mm Keith Blacks and honed stock cylinders. I'm going to balance the whole assembly. I'm still pondering whether I'm going to replace the clutch and flywheel since it's pretty expensive ($800), but if I do I'll get a lightened flywheel which would be nice. Planning on a WebCam (maybe Elgin, Jake get the testing done ) 86b with a little extra exhaust duration (need to pull out the cam book and do more research and detail work to nail this down). I'll be getting ceramic lifters, and a Mallory (with Grey/Grey springs) and I have stock 2.0 heads that have been rebuilt that I'll use.

I'm seriously thinking of making a CIS injection car. Something about it has really tickled my fancy lately. It's so damn simple. After a lot of reading I'm going to pursue a 924 CIS-Basic setup from a 2.0. Might make the jump for CIS-E if I can find one with all the parts. CIS-E is nice because it tunes itself a little more, but it adds complexity.

Think that's it right now. I'm sure I forgot something.

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 19 2004, 10:01 AM

are you going to keep the heads stock or open them up some? sounds like a sweet ass engine!! Keep us posted!

Posted by: type47 Feb 19 2004, 10:05 AM

tell me more about the 924 CIS system applied to the type IV engine. Bolt on? both engines are 2.0L right? i have seen in some magazine or somewhere where a person fitted a type IV with CIS. all the stuff about MPS's and their costs and old D-jet systems, old wiring etc and Megasquirt FI systems could make CIS an interesting conversion.

Posted by: McMark Feb 19 2004, 10:09 AM

If I do a CIS it will definately be detailed in depth here. One of the biggest issues to deal with is fuel lines. CIS runs at around 75 psi fuel. So I'll need to either replace the fuel lines with steel or do some careful planning to keep the high pressures out of the stock fuel lines. I really don't like the idea of replacing the fuel lines with steel.

Posted by: ArtechnikA Feb 19 2004, 10:10 AM

CIS cars don't like lumpy cams almost as much as D-Jet cars don't.

924 was a 1,9-l engine of unremarkable performance. i bet you'd be happier with whatever the last iteration of CIS VW ran on the GTI - especially if you can find one from a 2-liter (i'm not sure when they made the switch to Motronic.

931 (924-T) CIS is a natural for a turbo car, but i bet there's more fertile ground in the late VW area for NA cars.

CIS tends to get a bad rap, but i liked it. and i think i -almost- got my pig-rich issue worked out by the time i had to leave the GTI behind ... if you get a CIS-KE setup it'd probably be worthwhile getting the spark-control box and finding a way to mount the knock-sensor ...

Posted by: tat2dphreak Feb 19 2004, 10:10 AM

I don't know much about FI... but I know the guy who did CIS put a LOT of work into it... definately NOT a bolt on!

Posted by: McMark Feb 19 2004, 10:14 AM

I don't understand why people think CIS doesn't like lumpy cams. CIS has nothing to do with vacuum. It has to do with air flow. Air flows the same no matter how the cam opens. CIS should be cam indifferent. Please explain if I'm wrong.

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 19 2004, 10:26 AM

CIS won't like the duration of the 86B, nor the fast cam timing.... What kind of driving are you gonna do?

Posted by: James Adams Feb 19 2004, 10:34 AM

The airflow meter plate will bounce up and down with too much valve overlap.

The main issue with adapting CIS is that it is "tuned" to an engines torque curve using the cone shape of the airflow meter. This shape determines how far the plate is lifted (fuel flow) for a given amount of air.

If your torque curve differs from the engine you got the system from, then the fuel curve will be need to be differnt, but there is no easy way to change this.

Posted by: MattR Feb 19 2004, 11:32 AM

When I rebuild in the next few weeks, I'm going to go with almost the exact same setup (KB 96mm, webcam, etc.), but Im going to skip the fancy fuel injection and stick to duel 40 IDFs. And I cant afford a mallory, so Im thinking of ACN's unit.

Where are you going to have your engine balanced? Anywhere local?

Posted by: mike_the_man Feb 19 2004, 01:43 PM

I quite like CIS. It took me a while to figure it all out, but once you understand it, it's fairly simple. It doesn't sound like it would be a real easy conversion to do, and I've heard that each system is tuned for the motor it's on, also. That would make it difficult to adapt to a 2.0L, I would think.

Go out to your local pic-a-part and see if you can't find a Rabbit or some other car that uses it. It came on Audis, BMWs, Volvos, and all sorts of other cars, I'm sure. It should be easy to find a complete system to take home and mess around with. If you can't find one, I think I have 3 more or less complete systems sitting in my shed.

I think good fuel pumps are getting a little hard to come by, for a reasonable price.

Posted by: Jake Raby Feb 19 2004, 01:50 PM

O Love CIS, but have found its camshaft limitations-- I made a special CIS cam for my bus engines. drastically different from the carb version..

It made almost 100 lb/ft of torque at 100 RPM!

Posted by: Qarl Feb 19 2004, 01:52 PM

You can contact Ed Villela (he turboed a 914 using CIS). It was featured in Excellence a few years ago.

He is a member on this board, but obviously not active.

He usually goes by evill914

Posted by: McMark Feb 20 2004, 12:21 AM

James Adams-
Thanks! This is exactly the info I needed to know! As I thought about it moretoday at work I started to suspect that that might be the case. Hmmm, perhaps I can tune my engine to a particular torque curve. Or maybe dump the CIS idea. I love the CIS theory, it seems like a great fuel injection. Bummer it's not more adaptable.

Jake-
What type of driving will I be doing? Spirited street driving. I brought my 1.7 up to redline every time before the deer bit it.