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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ 914 Starter
Posted by: show15 Feb 3 2009, 09:59 AM
Hey. My name is Mike and im new here. Im only 17 but love cars and working on them. My dad owns a Porsche 914-4 1.8 and i want this car so bad but im about to go to college and he is saying if i dont have it running in 2 months hes going to sell it. This used to be my grandfathers and i would love to keep it in the family. it was fuel injected but my dad put a weber 32/36 dfav on it. its been sitting for about a year or so and when i try to start it it doesnt even make a sound. the lights go out when the key is turned to the start position and the stereo will stop. i wanna test the starter to see if thats the problem but i cant because i cant find it. can someone help me and tell me where the starter is?
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Feb 3 2009, 10:02 AM
Upper left side of the tranny, under the rear trunk. 
Posted by: Joe Sharp Feb 3 2009, 10:07 AM
Hey Mike, Yaeh what he said.
The starter is a problem at times. If it's not getting enough voltage it won't do it's job. There is a way to put in a relay in between the ignition wire and the starter that supplies proper voltage to it. But first you need to know that that is the prooblem. Take a screwdriver (not a good one) and cross it between the ignition wire and the positive wire on the starter to jump the conection and that should make the starete turn over. Make sure the car is out of gear. oh and check the ground wires and the positive side on the battery
Posted by: show15 Feb 3 2009, 10:08 AM
Upper left side of the tranny, under the rear trunk.
Posted by: show15 Feb 3 2009, 10:10 AM
Hey Mike,
Yaeh what he said.The starter is a problem at times. If it's not getting enough voltage it won't do it's job. There is a way to put in a relay in between the ignition wire and the starter that supplies proper voltage to it. But first you need to know that that is the prooblem. Take a screwdriver (not a good one) and cross it between the ignition wire and the positive wire on the starter to jump the conection and that should make the starete turn over. Make sure the car is out of gear. oh and check the ground wires and the positive side on the battery
Does the ignition wire look any different or anything?
Posted by: Phoenix-MN Feb 3 2009, 10:31 AM
Hey. My name is Mike and im new here. Im only 17 but love cars and working on them. My dad owns a Porsche 914-4 1.8 and i want this car so bad but im about to go to college and he is saying if i dont have it running in 2 months hes going to sell it. This used to be my grandfathers and i would love to keep it in the family. it was fuel injected but my dad put a weber 32/36 dfav on it. its been sitting for about a year or so and when i try to start it it doesnt even make a sound. the lights go out when the key is turned to the start position and the stereo will stop. i wanna test the starter to see if thats the problem but i cant because i cant find it. can someone help me and tell me where the starter is?
Read his original post
Sounds like bad/weak battery or bad connection. Start by making sure the battery is charged and good, and the cables/connections are good.
Posted by: ericread Feb 3 2009, 10:42 AM
with all of the above.
First of all, BE CAREFUL. Don't weld yourself to the starter and don't let the car run you over.
Using a multimeter, check the battery voltage at the + and - poles of the battery. If it reads under 12 volts then charge the battery before going further. If you have a voltage meter in your car, please note that it is for entertainment purposes only. Rely only on your multimeter.
When is the last time the engine was running? If it's been any length of time, check the oil and having a friend assist, place the car in gear and rock it forward and backwards making sure the engine is moving freely (don't try this on a hill, your car can easily get away from you...)
Check back here often and post pictures of anything you have questions about. The folks on this site are your friends, and they will go to great extents to assist.
Good luck!!!
Eric Read
Posted by: Joe Sharp Feb 3 2009, 10:56 AM
If you can still see the color of the wire it is yellow. It is a bayonet type conection. Oh and there is a ground wire strap above the tranny that sometimes causes problems.
Posted by: Johny Blackstain Feb 3 2009, 11:03 AM
Read his original post
Sounds like bad/weak battery or bad connection. Start by making sure the battery is charged and good, and the cables/connections are good.
Posted by: McMark Feb 3 2009, 11:26 AM
Check battery voltage.
Posted by: Todd Enlund Feb 3 2009, 11:45 AM
Ground strap on the tranny?
Posted by: Joe Sharp Feb 3 2009, 12:13 PM
Ground strap on the tranny?
Yeah Todd, most people don't find it until they are pulling the tranny. It's usaly the last thing that they disconect.
Posted by: 9146986 Feb 3 2009, 03:28 PM
Don't cut a hole in the trunk floor! I've had two cars here in the past year, where some bozo hacked a hole in the trunk floor to get to the starter.
Get a Haynes manual. It's not going to make you a mechanic, but it will help you find stuff.
Posted by: ericread Feb 3 2009, 09:58 PM
Don't cut a hole in the trunk floor! I've had two cars here in the past year, where some bozo hacked a hole in the trunk floor to get to the starter.
Get a Haynes manual. It's not going to make you a mechanic, but it will help you find stuff.
There's really no reason to cut the trunk floor. If you jack up the rear end, there's plenty of room to get to the starter. It's not even a tight fit.
Eric
Posted by: McMark Feb 4 2009, 11:44 AM
Don't cut the floor, learn something. Porsche/VW isn't STUPID enough to make the starter inaccessible. There's plenty of room.
Posted by: RJMII Feb 4 2009, 12:26 PM
I agree, check the ground strap on the transmission, the battery terminals, battery voltage, etc. look for the easy stuff first. =o)
Baking soda and a pocket knife clean up battery terminals nicely.
Posted by: Spoke Feb 4 2009, 12:47 PM
Good luck trying to keep the car in the family. You have very good intentions. As others have mentioned, charge the battery first for several hours.
If after checking electrical connections as everyone mentioned and you still cannot get the starter to work, you could always get some of your buddies to push start the car just to see if it runs.
Push starting can be dangerous so just be careful. Push it with the clutch in in 3rd gaar or so, then pop the clutch with key on and pump the gas. This will at least get it started (if it starts) so your Dad will agree to let you keep the car.
If you live on a hill, just make sure your buds can push the car back up the hill if it won't start...Duh.
Keep in mind that a +30 year old 914 is not necessarily a dependable car especially if it has been sitting a long time. It may take a good amount of work to get it into reliable condition.
Welcome to the madness.
Posted by: show15 Feb 4 2009, 10:39 PM
i found the starter and its pretty rusted. it looks like it could be the original. i took it to advanced auto and got it tested and its dead. im waiting for my tax money to replace the starter. after i get it replaced ill see what the next problem is. i know it needs a new throttle cable. so ill probably buy it at the same time. thanks for the help by the way
Posted by: ericread Feb 4 2009, 11:15 PM
i found the starter and its pretty rusted. it looks like it could be the original. i took it to advanced auto and got it tested and its dead. im waiting for my tax money to replace the starter. after i get it replaced ill see what the next problem is. i know it needs a new throttle cable. so ill probably buy it at the same time. thanks for the help by the way
Before you spend a sizeable amount on a new starter, you still don't know what other problems there still might be.
Just an idea
Post a WTB message in the "Classified" forum for a working used starter. You might just get one cheap that will work for now, and allow you to continue your troubleshooting.Eric
Posted by: show15 Feb 5 2009, 11:49 AM
its only like 40 bucks but ill try that and see what i get. thanks
Posted by: show15 Feb 8 2009, 05:21 PM
well i got the new starter in and the same thing is still happening. lights go out when the key is turned to start. the starter turns when i jump the thread things with a screwdriver but when i try to jump from the wire to the positive i dont get anything. where do i look next?
Posted by: Joe Sharp Feb 8 2009, 06:34 PM
You need to in stall a relay in between the ignition wire and the starter. It's called a hot start relay. I don't have one on hand or a picture but what your doing is powering up a relay (a ford starter relay works perfectly) from the ignition wire and jumping from the positive side of the starter wires to the starter cylenoid. Giving it 12 volts like the screwdriver did. Anybody got a picture or a lead to a thread on Hot Start?
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Feb 8 2009, 06:54 PM
There is a wireing diagram in this thread
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=14134&hl=
Posted by: show15 Feb 9 2009, 12:25 AM
thanks. where can i get one? and is it hard to install? i know it doesnt look like it but you never know. and will the hot start actually work on a car that isnt hot?
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Feb 9 2009, 12:06 PM
Hot start is just a saying that we use to describe when the car gets hot the starter solenoid stops functioning properly and won’t engage.
Any early Ford solenoid, 60's & 70's is what I always used but there are lots of them!
Basically, large wire in from power, large wire out to starter, ground wire to ground & ign wire hot switched to trigger
Posted by: ericread Feb 9 2009, 09:10 PM
I just don't see this as a "hot start" problem. It seems to me that this may be more related to a starter key-switch issue.
The starter turns when the wires are jumped. So it's not really a voltage drop situation.
The starter doesn't engage when the positive wire is attached. I assume the "positive" wire is the wire from the key ignition. So it sems that thte key switch may be FUBAR.
Just a thought...
Eric
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Feb 9 2009, 11:03 PM
Maybe, he said he replaced the starter so that should have a new solenoid on it.
Disconnect the Yellow Wire and have someone look at the voltage on the ign wire when the key is fully engaged. That would tell you if the ign is not working.
Posted by: underthetire Feb 9 2009, 11:09 PM
LOAD TEST THE BATTERY BEFORE YOU GO ANY FURTHER!
Posted by: Jeffs9146 Feb 10 2009, 12:25 AM
I figured he already did that.....lesson 101.914 The first thing you do before attempting anything else!
But, he did say it turned over with the screwdriver trick!
Posted by: Spoke Feb 10 2009, 01:34 AM
Help us help you. Please do these simple tests and let us know what your results are:
Connect your voltmeter (If you don't have one, buy one, you'll need it again and again) POS lead on the big red wire on the starter and connect the NEG lead on the chassis, not the engine. Measure 12V.
Connect the POS lead of your voltmeter to the little wire on the starter, and connect the NEG lead on the chassis. Turn the key to start and check the voltage. This should be 12V or so.
If previous voltage is below 12V, remove the little wire from the starter and measure the voltage of the little wire to chassis when key is turned to start. If this voltage is not 12V, there is a problem with wiring or your ignition switch.
Posted by: Dr. Roger Feb 10 2009, 01:47 AM
Help us help you. Please do these simple tests and let us know what your results are:
Connect your voltmeter (If you don't have one, buy one, you'll need it again and again) POS lead on the big red wire on the starter and connect the NEG lead on the chassis, not the engine. Measure 12V.
Connect the POS lead of your voltmeter to the little wire on the starter, and connect the NEG lead on the chassis. Turn the key to start and check the voltage. This should be 12V or so.
If previous voltage is below 12V, remove the little wire from the starter and measure the voltage of the little wire to chassis when key is turned to start. If this voltage is not 12V, there is a problem with wiring or your ignition switch.
Exactly. This can be a relatively easy fix. Just troubleshoot one step at a time.
Keep up the good work.
Posted by: show15 Feb 14 2009, 03:17 PM
ok well while i was waiting for the starter i put in the new ignoition coil and nothing happened so i put in the old coil and now it makes like the worlds worst clicking noise when the battery in on the charger. i know the battery is dead for a fact now. but when it is on the charger it should still work right? any ideas on this one?
Posted by: Dr Evil Feb 14 2009, 03:54 PM
Not exactly. If your battery will not hold a charge then when you hook it up to the charger you will only have a load on the charger and no juice. If you try to start it in charge mode with a dead battery you get the clicking you describe. If you try to start in with start assist on the charger, it will likely not work with a dead battery as the amps will go to the dead battery instead of to your starter.
New battery fisrt before you do any thing else.
Posted by: dlee6204 Feb 14 2009, 04:31 PM
I agree. Get a new battery. You won't be able to do anything with a dead battery. When I first got my current project, it came with an incorrect and aged battery. The first thing I did was get a correct new one and put in there before I started to diagnose anything.
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