I bought a five lug set up today from a local guy off craigslist. The front is a Boge set up with 3" spacing and M-calipers. I already have a pair so I will most likely be selling these off in the near future.
It's the rears that got my attention. The hubs are originally five lug, not four lug redrilled for five. The guy who sold them to me took them off a 914 he parted out a long time ago and has been storing them ever since for an eventual five lug conversion. He sold them as he has too many projects as is.
Unfortunately, I'm going to be gone for a few days and won't get a chance to dig into these until next weekend. I'm wondering if I may have acquired a set up with 914/6 stub axles.
By the way, anyone have a suggestion on how to remove the big castle nut with the suspension off the car?
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Let me guess, the guy lives in Columbia City, out by St Helens.
I emailed him last night and asked how much he wanted$$. He replied $300.
I said I will take them. He replied Okay they are yours.
He says he can deliver to OC on way to work. Okay, sounds good.
Then I get an email today that the five lug is gone, for $500.
I guess money talks.
Yeah, No blame to you. You didn't know.
Man, I was way too slow...
So, Bryan... your other struts are 3" as well? I've got a pair of "A" calipers/hubs/rotors, and need some 3.5" struts.
My experience was that I was lifting the entire back end of the car off the ground to break those bastards loose. I would take a torch and heat them up a lot then hit them with the impact to bust them loose. a couple days soaking of liquid wrench could help too.
As for being factory six all you have to do is look at the solid rotor to realize that is not the case. However, I am confused as to why they are 5 lug calipers (non vented) but have no extra holes on the rotors. (early 911 rotors working with the 914 hubs?)
great buy.
914/6 had solid rotors in the rear. What's the price on those 3" front struts? PM me.
Dremel and hammer and chisel, buy a new nut.
Ken
Couple of things:
Nut = Acetylene cherry red and then have a go at it. You may want to use that one solid rotor we see in the picture and, by first removing the backing plate, put it in a vise. You'll have to crank down on it but, if you can get that nut hot enough it will probably spin. All this depends on the proper air wrench as well. They're not created equal.
What is it? = I'd check the front end first for clues. The spline count will probably be 911 for sure however, check the torsion bar thickness. You may have the 17mm 914-6 bars. That would be a clue.
Rears would be easy enough to tell. Hubs should have a 901 part number on them. CV's would be 914 sized CV's. Real -6 stub axles have a cast finish on them. Search a thread by Reid on the subject (Lavanaut) from last month.
The left rear arm would have an extra tab for the heater flapper cable. This is just a simple tab maybe 1" wide by 1.5" tall with a single small sheet metal screw hole in it that a vinyl/cloth strap was looped through to hold that cable on 6's. Bear in mind, these control arms were used on all early 914's so it's nothing unique however, with 901.xxx.xxx.xx hubs, factory stub axles and this tab, you probably have a set off a six...
...now; where that car he stripped?
The caliper in the background is a -4 caliper.
Whats the spline count on the axles?
The front hub looks to be hubcentric which would be later.
I had to spend some today to see what I've got... I took Eric's advice with the disk-in-the-vice technique and heat. My impact wrench loosened the axle nut without too much trouble. I was pretty surprised.
I tapped the stub axle and out came.... what I believe is a 914/6 stub axle! 28 splines, sure looks like one, but I've only seen them in pictures! Can anyone confirm?
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On the front, I measured the torsion bar diameter at 18.0mm with 29 splines. I believe this matches up to a stock 914/4 (stock diameter 17.9mm) bar.
nice score.
you should have known better craig. what are ya? NEW!!? i'll be surpised if the other parts will be avail.
k
Something on those stub axles doesn't look factory. The nubs to be more specific. I could be wrong...
could they be 108 ?
this more interesting than the Dationa 500
The mittlemotor stubs I sold, seemed to have a thicker flange where it
mates with the cv joint, that was my impression of them.
They also could be 911 pieces added to the trailing arms, if not real /6.
Well bought!
Here's a picture Andy posted in Reid's thread:
Looks like they could be the real deal.
Excellent! Nice find Bryan
I wonder on the set as I bought & sold a 75 I think years ago. It had a complete 5-lug setup on it. I wonder if you could special order one that way. The car was pretty unimpressive besides. I wouldn't have thought someone made the swap . I know the car made the rounds as I sold it to Craig who later sold it to someone up in Portland. Guy told me they were real 6 rears on it? Car was a 75 though? One o fthe cars I sold I should have hung onto
I've begun to disassemble the rear trailing arms. I drove out the hubs with a metal pipe and hammer, and then removed the stubs from the CVs. I had to figure out how to hold the axles to loosen the CV bolts with the axles removed from the car. I ended up bolting the already removed hubs to the disks, then clamping the disks in a vice, then fitting the stub inside the hub, which worked just fine.
All I can say is what a dirty, greasy, disgusting mess this is.
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Tonight I removed the bearings from the trailing arms. In order to do this atraumatically, I made a homemade bearing puller for about $10 and a trip to Ace Hardware.
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Bearing cap and removal... Did I mention what a dirty mess this is?
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My homemade tool in action!
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And the result! Held the big bolt with a Vice Grip, turned the nut, and the bearing came out like buttah!
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Question... the inside of the trailing arm looks as though it has a plastic sleeve in there... am I seeing this correctly? The reason I ask is that I was planning on bringing both trailing arms to the local metal cleaner and have the grease and grime taken care of before I have them powdercoated. However, if these are dipped, the plastic will melt. Anyone know for sure? There's just too much grease in there still for me to get a good look.
I also need to call my local powdercoater and ask him how dirty a piece he'll accept. I know media blasting can clean parts up, but these are really dirty...
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Did all of the bearing come out? Isn't there suppose to be a cover over the balls?
Please post the specs of the items needed to fab this bearing puller?
Gud yob mon...
Thanks Bryan! That saves me some time...
Looking at the splines, there are two different approaches used to make them.
The ones in your find are machined using a circular cutter that travels longitudinally along the lenght of the spline area. That type of machining would produce the characteristic "V" at the end of the groove (see red arrow).
How would you do it in 1970's? Hans in the machine shop would attach to a mill and enables him to rotate the axle stub around the shaft axis in an increment of 360 degrees divided by the number of splines. Once the axle is held at the first groove positon positioned, Hans moves the bed into the axle to create a circular slot like a keyway, then Hans makes the bed travel longitudinally to cut the slot.
Then Hans cranks the axle stub away from the cutter, and moves the bed back to the start position. He then rotates the axle by one spline amount and resarts the process. Remember, the whole time he is cranking this thing back and forth by hand to make the splines..... Or, maybe a rotary indexing tooling.
For the production splines, you produce the square end in the groove (see blue arrows). To do this, you might use a rotary approach where a really hard spline tool is made that resembles a gear is both pressed into the axle (unhardened state) and and rotated around the axle shaft to produce the splines. Or, a linear broach could also make the square ends to the grooves.
Prolly a few more processes but the point is, they may be a handmade very low volume part.
Ken
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So what's the secret to removing the rubber bushings from the trailing arms? I heated up the metal around the bushing today, hoping to be able to pull it out in one piece. Yeah, right... Instead, it was bit, bit, by tiny bit of rubber. Is there a trick to it?
I use a simple press. It would probably pay for itself with this job. It's one of those things you can't go wrong with at HF for $99 bucks.
Step 1: Set the shelf to the proper height. Heat the shaft and press it through the fist bushing. You can see the bushing melt like butter as the hot shaft goes through it (settle down Slits).
Step 2: Take a large screwdriver to the "inside" of the now exposed bushing and pry up. You should have to do this 3x before the bushing pops out.
Step 3: Lower the shelf one notch, heat the shaft again and press it back through to it's original position.
Step 4: Raise the shelf one notch, heat the shaft and press it the remaining way through until it pops out.
Step 5: Repeat step 2.
Hope that helps but... if you don't have a press or don't intend on getting one, maybe take these notes to a friend or shop that has one.
Others will weigh in and tell you to burn them out and stink up your garage.
Just got a pile of parts back from the metal cleaner today. I'll deliver these to the powder coater next week. The trailing arms in particular were covered with CV grease and caked dirt. All gone now.
I also had a rusty front cross bar and A-arms for the front done, as you can see. I'm pretty happy with how nicely they cleaned up.
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Eric - I'm going to send the clean stub axles and a couple other small pieces to you for zinc plating.
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Also had the hubs cleaned. I'm going to blast off some surface rust that's beginning to form and paint the back side.
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I have front and rear suspension projects going, so I'm going to merge them into this thread. The front suspension project is http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=92383&hl=MrKona
I picked up powder coated parts today. As funds free up, I'll install new bearings, bushings, and hardware. My goal is to have my car back on the road this summer. It's been way too long since I've had this thing on the road.
Unfortunately, as I readying parts for the powder coater, I discovered that one of the rear brake dust plates was cracked at the middle bolt hole. I then took both plates of my car - and both of them were cracked too! I'm going to hold off on coating until I can find one that is not cracked.
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I guess this means you will use the solid rear rotors and their matching size calipers? How much did they charge to clean the parts? The only people I know that do that are motor shops and they won't do it unless you use them to build the motor.
I'm installing the rear bearings tonight. I started the bearing by tapping it in as straight as possible with a rubber mallet and then finished it with a press. On good advice from an expert here on the board, I pressed the arm down onto the bearing rather than pressing the bearing into the arm.
It was a little tricky keeping the bearing straight while in the press. I rested the arm and bearing on a press plate. Then I laid a 1/4" steel plate on the back side of the arm, across the larger opening, with a newspaper between the plate and arm so as not to scratch the powder coat. I then pressed a little, repositioned the arm slightly, pressed again, and so on until the bearing was almost all the way in, then I applied more pressure and the bearing seated nicely. Sorry no pictures, I was using both hands holding the arm in the press and I didn't want my wife to take pictures in case I really screwed something up.
I had the bearing caps cleaned and zinc plated and I'm really happy with the results. Finished it off with new zinc plated bolts and wave washers, torqued to 18 ft/lbs.
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If it's not too late. I have had real good luck with Eastwoods Stainless Steel paint for exhaust. I have used it on blasted bug headers and a k5 blazer exhaust and a case tractor exhaust and it has been on the k5 and case for several years and except for the bolts on the clamps it looks great. It's supposed to be cured at 400 but I used a torch and was careful not to burn it while I used a lazer temp gun to monitor the temps to cure it. The last time I just let the bug exhaust do the cooking. I always let the paint cure though before heating it up.
The only thing was the ss paint was really hard to clean out of the touchup gun and I ended up with some flake in a clear coat on a honda tank later on.
I got it in a red pint can. I'm pretty sure it was from Eastwood but it might have been Restomotive or por 15 as most people say.
I installed the hubs today using the same screw mechanism I used to pull the original bearings. Worked great.
Started out with nice clean hubs..
Taped up the powder coated surface to avoid scratches.
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Laid a couple washers on the tape. The washer was large enough that it contacted the control arm surface and not the bearing.
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The "screw mechanism." Put a light coat of grease on the hub surface.
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I pressed in the races from new bearings and adjusted the adjusting clamping nut on the strut housing spindle so that the washer just moves, as shown in the 911 Haynes manual. Can someone please confirm if the picture looks correct? It's the distance of the hub body and the distance ring. Is this correct? The reason I ask is that the caliper body does not appear 'perfectly' centered over the disk.
I installed the pads and they both clear the disk just fine...
Although I believe that I pressed the inner race all the way into the hub, I'd like some more sets of eyes to look at this before I tap the dust cap on all the way. Thanks.
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One more showing the assembly coming together.
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Great work, and really helpful thread!
I'm just about done putting my car back together, but for me it all went back together dirty. After a suitable shake-down I hope to take it apart again this winter and, like you, replace all bearings/bushings and totally clean/powdercoat the suspension parts.
Assembly, part II tonight. Had to remove the hub and reinstall after attaching the brake dust shield. Once I put the dust shield on, I didn't have that strange space between the distance ring and hub like I did last night. Imagine that...
Per Haynes, torqued dust shield bolts to 18 ft/lbs. I used SS bolts and new wavy washers.
Also did a final visual check to make sure the new races were pressed in all the way. They were... Prior to pressing in the races, I heated the hubs in a 275 degree oven. I used a hydraulic press to install them, along with a correct size socket and large washers to rig up a way to press them in.
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Inner bearing in, and dust shield on, tapped in with a rubber mallet.
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Disk ready for install of hub.
New yellow zinc plated hardware.
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"Silver and Gold"
Hub to disk nuts torqued to 17 ft/lbs.
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Ready for the dust cap. Per haynes, after installing the outer bearing, tighten the clamping nut to approximately 10 ft/lbs to seat the bearings. Than loosen it until the thrust washer can just be moved, tighten clamping nut screw.
Done, sitting on the shelf for eventual installation.
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I'm half way there with the five lug installation. Yesterday, I installed the rear trailing arms. As you can see from the pictures, I installed the rear trailing arms bushings from PMB, and added zerks.
Also took the time to replace the SS braided brake lines the previous owner had installed with rubber lines.
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16x6 Fuchs. Two down, two to go.
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Nice work Bryan.
Installed the fronts. Also installed new ball-joints and tie rod ends as well. The old tie rod boots were ripped and who-knows-how-old. Steel braided lines were replaced with new rubber lines.
It worked out well that the new suspension was the later 911 strut that uses the wedge pin like the 914. I was able to simply transfer the Bilstein inserts.
The problem with putting new stuff on the car is that it makes the surrounding areas look that much dirtier. I have to scrub the inner wheel well this weekend. I previously had a cross member and A-arms powder coated, but opted to leave the existing pieces on the car and just replaced the struts. The power coated pieces will wait until I do a more extensive restoration on this car one day.
Time to change my avatar!
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Bryan car is looking great! Nice work man. Can't wait to see you driving it
Finished up the axles tonight. Previously had a set of axles powdercoated. I disassembled, cleaned, and repacked the CVs and reinstalled with new boots and clamps.
Took some pictures and then wrapped up the CVs to avoid spreading any more CV grease - messy stuff to say the least; went through a lot of paper towels and disposable gloves.
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