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Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 24 2009, 03:54 PM

So I decided to order a dash cover (fabric) from AA on Valentines Day @ 20% off. I placed the order and received a conformation email and all. So 10 days have gone by, and no cover. So I call over there and am told the item is backordered, and being that it is, the order was cancelled. I received no follow up email or any other info or attempt to be contacted other than the order conformation. Hmmmmmm....

I was even asked if I wanted to re-order the item at full price when I called them to see where my order was. Hmmmmmmm....

My reply was "no thanks", and I hung up - annoyed. I went directly to Evil Bay, and placed an order for half the price of the discounted rate, even after shipping.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 24 2009, 04:03 PM

Yup no bull. If we did not have it the order was canceled. No trying to bait and switch, No call back offer at full price and free shipping, NOTHING. Blew out plenty of parts that saturday and lost a lot of money on the Genuine parts!!!!!! A great fun day for all and some good deals. Every body makes fuzzy dash covers some better than others. Glad you found a good deal

Posted by: SLITS Feb 24 2009, 04:04 PM

Same news ... different day

Posted by: turboman808 Feb 24 2009, 04:25 PM

Wouldn't most companies let the customer know they are back ordered and then honor the 20% off when it did get back in stock?

Canceling and order then telling the customer you can order at full price when it's in stock sounds so weird.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 24 2009, 04:46 PM

sure does. We usually never stock the fuzzy dash covers because no one orders them. Have a few of the old 924 44 examples in various colors but not a popular seller at ALL!!!!!! The rules were the rules all parts not in stock, order canceled. If someone called back and wanted the items, then we could order them for them but at full price. We tried hard to have something for everyone that day and filled orders quite well I must say. Someone though is ALWAYS going to be disappointed. Fun day though and PLENTY of stuff went out of here. No one could IMAGINE!!!!! EVERYONE is fixing up their 914s. Save a 914 not a whale!!!!!!!

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 24 2009, 05:00 PM

by the way thank every one very much for your participation in the sale!!!!!!!

Posted by: 736conver Feb 24 2009, 05:11 PM

I was wondering when the first post was going to go up. It wasnt if...it was when.

I just got an email from parts america saying my part was out of stock. Simply customer service goes along ways.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 24 2009, 05:18 PM

Actually, George said in his promo thread that the promotion would NOT cover any back ordered items!
He even said that he was going to ignore those orders and cancel them.

Should have read the unusually large fine print ...
Andy

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 24 2009, 05:19 PM

Thats all fine and good. That being the case, then you probably should not send an...... order...... conformation......

OR, offer to sell it to me after the fact at full price....

AND, if 'no one orders them', then WHY OFFER THEM FOR SALE?

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 24 2009, 05:27 PM

I DID, and was fully aware of his disclaimer ~ BUT, when I got an 'ORDER CONFORMATION', it led me to believe that I was to expect my order.

Posted by: ws91420 Feb 24 2009, 05:54 PM

Okay did you order this online or talk to an actual person. If you ordered online the confirmation is more than likely automatic. So in a way do agree with you in that you should have been contacted if the part was backordered. Also the online site should have better way of knowing if something was in stock at AA. Dealing with a large parts inventory is bad enough w/o throwing in used and using drop ship to satisfy customer needs. Inventory can be a real bitch at times especially if it hasn't been accurate for a long time.

Posted by: r_towle Feb 24 2009, 05:55 PM

Dont rag on George for sticking to his very specific instructions.
He did nothing wrong, he wrote it down...go find the thread.

Rich

Posted by: scotty b Feb 24 2009, 06:02 PM

They have done this before with the same stipulations. My only complaint is you aren't told at the time you order that the item is not in stock. Other than that it is what it is.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 24 2009, 06:32 PM

I understand your frustration with that, but my guess is the ordering process is at least somewhat automated. Even if you call in, my guess is (there's more guessing below!) once entered into the computer, a automated confirmation will go out.

After all, you *did* order something. So getting a confirmation was to be expected.

I know nothing about the AA ordering system, but (guessing again) it might be difficult to change the automated part for just a one day promotion ...

Andy

Posted by: jgara962 Feb 24 2009, 07:05 PM

Having just ordered from AA for the first time myself, I was a little suprised by the lack of on-line frills that I have become accustom to. Their website is probably one of the worst I have seen and is something I would have expected 10 years ago, but not by today's standards. I received a confirmation that the order was placed, but no confirmation that it had shipped which is something else that most companies do these days which left me wondering when the items were going to show up.

With that said, my order was correct, came quickly, and they even sent it FedEx ground so it arrived on a Saturday which is very unusual.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 24 2009, 07:23 PM

I am pissed at George too I had no idea what parts I would need for the current 914 project I am doing until last night so I didn't get the 20% off either!

Seriously, George said no discount on backordered stuff. I read it in his thread and the only suprise to me is that HE DIDN"T HAVE IT! That boy could probably build a 914 from parts on his shelves!

I do agree with John though, if George put as much effort into the website as he just put into the catalog, there wouldn't be anyone who could touch him... I know web development is expensive though... At least up until now, I know some of those guys charged $1500/hour.

Thanks for doing the sale George! When are you going to Banner up here at 914World? You need to REPRESENT!

Posted by: Pat Garvey Feb 24 2009, 07:36 PM

George,

Look, I've been a backer for years. Why, because youi have the cajones to try to keep this 914 thing going. Have I been stood up by you? Yes, but I learned to order things before I needed them. So, I remain a fan...but!

I work in retailing too. When we advertise something that doesn't show up from the supplier, we issue rain checks. Yep, sometimes we break even or lose when they do show up, but we keep our customers happy & coming back. They but more than they intended.

Call it good will. Keep it in mind.

To quote a budof mine - "screw me once & I won't be back". Think about it.
Pat

Posted by: carr914 Feb 24 2009, 08:16 PM

He put EVERYTHING in writing for US.

You got 20% off anything in-stock. Period. If it wasn't in-stock you're order would be cancelled - no shipment - no bill - no rain checks.

I know I got what I ordered, quickly shipped, and saved some coin.

T.C.

Posted by: kconway Feb 24 2009, 08:19 PM

+1 Happy customer.
Thanks George.

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 24 2009, 09:02 PM

I am a small business owner, who does not advertise. I rely on word of mouth by the professional job I do and the excellent customer service I provide.

I did understand the stipulations of the sale - perfectly. However, I am not a mind reader. The thing that was irritating to me, is that I was waiting for a part that was never to arrive. Weather it be a dash cover, a pair of heads, or a fucking widget - that is not the point.

It is my opinion if you order a part, it is the sellers responsibility to let the buyer know weather it has or has not and/or will not ship... no matter how big or small the company! Call it good business, customer service, whatever you want.

I have had my problems with this company before. Was I happy at first to know that they sell some parts that may not be available elsewhere? Yes. But EVERYTIME I have dealt with this company, I have gotten the short end of the BS stick. EVERY time I have spoken to someone on the other end of the line, I have been treated with contempt , at best, by some pretentious asshole who is positive his shit doesn't stink! In a customer driven business, your customers ARE your business. How about a little customer service?

The fact that it was JUST a dash cover is actually an EXCELLENT example! Will I ever buy a thing from this company again? When Hell freezes over!

Posted by: biosurfer1 Feb 24 2009, 10:15 PM

Why would any business have a sale, voluntarily, to lose money? sure they "might" pick up a new customer or two (or apparently lose a couple) but losing "a lot of money" to get a few customers seems counter intuitive

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 24 2009, 10:22 PM

It seems to me this company gets top dollar for thier parts, and then some. So even at 20% off, I'm sure it was still a banner day for Automobile Atlanta. Lost money, I sincerely doubt it.

I AM typically a loyal customer actually - but nobody looks out for me, except me.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 24 2009, 10:50 PM

The order confirmation was consummation of a contract, it was AA's signature on a contract. Before they sent the order confirmation the fine print was in place. But mistake or not, once AA sent the confirmation then there were two parties in agreement, they had a contract, and AA was obligated to do what they'd confirmed they'd do, which was to fill the order at the price on the confirmation.

That's the bottom line. Any lawyer would tell you that AA would lose that one in court if it came to that, which of course it never will. But getting away with it isn't the same as being right. If you agree to do something you need to do it. If not then your word means nothing, and your company gets the reputation of being shady. Sound familiar?

Posted by: mojorisen914 Feb 24 2009, 11:35 PM

Well, I want to put my .02 worth in.
George does have one hell of a catolog. I usually spend a little time each day looking thru the PDF file to see if there is anything I need/want. When I do find something to order; I call in and order it. The thing that used to bug me was; when I odered it, I was never told they didn't have it and so I would expect it to be at the house waiting on me when I came home for vacation. That only happenned once because after I got home last year and the parts weren't there and was told they were back ordered; I made it a point to 1. plan ahead and 2. I ALWAYS ask the person on the phone if the part was instock.
Now, as many people know, I'm over here in the sandbox. I plan ahead so I have the part for when I come back to the states for a vacation (3 times a year). So you can understand how important it is to me to have the part waiting at the house for when I arrive.
I don't blame George for this. I totally understand the costs associated to have parts on the shelf for a long period of time and not being sold. It's called overhead and it's tough right now in this economy.
Now, I'll add some gas to the fire: George, where is my free T-shirt that was supposed to be in a prior order? I never got it...

Disclaimer: "Remember; opinions are like ass-holes. Everybody has one".

Posted by: zonedoubt Feb 24 2009, 11:42 PM

I haven't received a confirmation of what is or isn't in stock. I haven't received my order. I haven't been informed when my order will ship. Going on 10 days now...

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 24 2009, 11:50 PM

DB is right on the legal aspect but George seems to live in his own legal world . The cataloge sure is nice but when there is a price in there and you call to order something that he has in stock only to find he wants more for it sucks. Especially when he says "it's the last one I have" and then you see a post three weeks later where he tells a guy he has 7 on the shelf now.

George has done well for us as a collector and conservationist. Just sad he isn't really much of a good honest businessman

AA could kick ass if he really wanted it to but it looks like it is just a hobby for George and that's cool if it is.

Posted by: ericread Feb 25 2009, 12:34 PM

I have to smile a bit when I see these posts.

So George created a really well designed catalog in 2007. I don't know of anyone that disputes this. And I know from experience that in 2007, George sold his items at the catalog prices. But now it is 2009 and we have all experienced the volatility of 914 parts pricing throughout the market. How many years do you expect a catalog to reflect current pricing? Or do you believe a catalog should reflect current pricing in perpetuity? Go take a look at a 1970 JC Penney catalog and ask if they will honor those process. I don't think so.

As for the AA Internet store, I think we can all agree it's a royal PIA. I NEVER use it. When it's time to order a part I call AA directly and speak to their order department. (I'm actually surprised that anybody uses their on-line ordering function - it's a mess!!!)

Now then, George had a sale. In his sale advertising, he announced very clearly that the sale was for in-stock items only, and if you ordered a part that turned out to be not in stock, the order would be cancelled. It appears in several cases this exact issue occurred. So what's the problem?

It appears that you may have missed getting a discount because George didn't have the item in stock. That was the terms that were agreed upon going into the sale.

Did you call George and ask him if he could help him out? Or did you just post your rant here? The few times I've felt bad about an AA transaction, I have spoken to George directly. And each time he's made good on his (and AA's) word.

Anyway, that's my $.02...

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 25 2009, 01:09 PM

My deal was a matter of weeks after the catalog came out. When we called George on it he told the guy that was ordering the part that maybe he shouldn't buy from there. We were told it ws his last 914-6-VW-PORSCHE badge and he wanted 175 when he had it listed for 145 in the cataloge. Then but a few weeks after I received mine he tells another member on the board he has 7 sitting on the shelf. Like I said before: he is a great conservationist and collector but not a good or honest businessman. If it wasn't for me trading for this badge with the guy buying it I would never have bought from George. We have too many guys here in th NW who have are fed up with his business. I just think it is sad when he has all that he does and his reputation is so poor. When I got into 914s some of the people who know much about 914s told me of all the places to shop for our little cars with the warning of staying away from AA. Sad . Just wish it was all run better. That's all.

Posted by: 6freak Feb 25 2009, 01:18 PM

I dont have .02 cents i spent it AA....Im still waiting for parts .....

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 25 2009, 01:19 PM

A company has to honor the order confirmations they send out. That's fundamental. And fulfilling their word only when you call and press them? How is that a good thing? And how many times have you had to do that?

Outdated pricing in the catalog is no excuse. All automotive suppliers print catalogs AND price lists. The catalogs are nice, expensive, change only when they change products. The price lists have no detail, are printed cheaply in volume, on cheap paper, and get upgraded periodically or whenever prices change significantly. AA could do that, or it would be easy enough for them to keep an updated price list on the web, which would avoid the constant haggling and misunderstandings that are otherwise inevitable. It would be so simple to resolve, but they haven't. Do you suppose they just LIKE to haggle?

And while anyone's in the mood to defend George, I'm curious. Why do you think that "AA Sucks" posts appear so regularly? Not just here but in every 914 forum. Even George noticed, sensitive guy that he is, and told us he'd do something about it. But they still keep appearing, and they've been exactly the same complaints forever. Could there be some reason for that? What's the thread, the single thing they all have in common?

And why isn't there bitching about other suppliers, why is it always AA? Do people just pick on them? Arbitrarily? Why would they do that? No other suppliers are picked on in the same way. So the others must all be doing something different. What would that be?

If he had treated people right George would have had a gold mine. He doesn't. His own fault.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 25 2009, 01:42 PM

Mob mentality? It is the fashion?

I have had the same problems that people complain about with AA from the Pelican and Automotion. I just deal directly with them and not throw mud here...

I am looking at the catalog. "all prices subject to change without notice" (page 5).
That isn't dishonesty, that is just a common catalog policy.

The fact remains, George announced the sale and stated "in stock items".

The only bitch anyone has is that because order confirmation was auto-sent, they don't know if they are getting their parts or not... I'd call that a glitch. What do you want him to do? hari kari?

Inventory is like a bank account. George made us a deal at 20% off everything in order to kick the cash flow up a notch. That is just my guess as I cannot know why George runs his business the way he does. But, bottom line - lots of people got lots of parts at 20% off....

Posted by: Lavanaut Feb 25 2009, 01:48 PM

Guys. Come on. If you can't live with the rules of the game don't play, it's as simple as that. If George hadn't sent you a confirmation email I get the feeling you'd be bitching about that in here too.

Had I ordered parts during the big sale, I'd have picked up the phone by now to find out if the order went through or not...after all, I knew there was a possibility it would be cancelled!

I mightn't always side with AA, but in this case I do.

Posted by: biosurfer1 Feb 25 2009, 01:50 PM

but JC Penny's WILL honor their prices for any given catalog until the next catalog comes out

I understand its hard work to put out a catalog, let alone every year, but that has to be factored in when deciding whether to put one out in the first place.

A catalog with prices that may or may not be right on products that may or may not be in stock is a worthless piece of garbage to me.

Posted by: 6freak Feb 25 2009, 01:59 PM

I only order on the phone.I like talking with the folks first hand..They made it seem like all the parts a bought and paid for where on the shelf and being shipped next day....Not the case ...But to resolve that all they have to do is say so or call or send e-mail ...simple fix" costumer happy " dont make me call you and ask about my parts !.........costumer service is all im asking for ...My time is worth as much as theres ....I hope it changes i dont wanna go else where but i will

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 25 2009, 02:02 PM

Call it whatever you prefer. Since every story on every board for years and years is pretty much the same, but always different people telling those stories, is there any other conceivable explanation?

I guess you do need to concede AA some credit for consistency, though. Well done, George! .

Posted by: biosurfer1 Feb 25 2009, 02:04 PM

I think the confusion is in that he was emailed a confirmation that the order went through. I can see calling if I got nothing, but if I have an email saying the order went through, why would I think otherwise?

If I called to make sure the confirmation was correct, then who would I call to make sure the guy who confirmed the donfirmation was correct, and so on, etc.

I suppose I would have had someone checking every order that day making sure the item was in stock. If not, the customer would get an email or phone call stating their order would be cancelled.... PITA? sure, but thats the cost of customer service if the company decides to have a sale with such stipulations.

all IMHO of course

Posted by: SUNAB914 Feb 25 2009, 02:17 PM

I got my previous order twice, still waiting on the 20% off order. I will send back the extra items I got. 1 out of 4 orders are incorrect.
I have used AA since 1985, yes sometimes orders get messed up, but they have always fixed it.
I wan't to thank george for cutting the price for us on V-day, I saved some cash, like all of us. I hope he will consider doing it again soon! But I don't blame him if he doesn't.
I hope they don't close their doors because AA has been the only place sometimes to find the hard parts.
We don't drive a VW, so we have to shop around for the best prices sometimes. new parts are not common.
I have 2 914's and a 928, so I know what pain is when you need those parts today.
He stated in his ad the rules! Give him a break!
Semper Fi

Posted by: Lavanaut Feb 25 2009, 02:29 PM

C'mon now bio, you know you turned those pages like it was your latest copy of Plumper Grannies Brazilian Plumper Grannies...

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 02:32 PM

we have the new one ready to go just loading many many color accessories right now, issue After that everyone will be amazed. And yes the website has been suffering.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 02:50 PM

Yup you hit it on the money. It is my passion for the 914 and perserving the marque that is most important to me. I feel like the father of all 914s having lent them out to many foster homes where many are abused, and their owners abusers, and that makes me sad.
It is my passion that keeps the 914 on the road and our business flowing, now in its 31st year. No one thinking right would have a business selling 914 parts these days nor making so many parts for them......that is just crazy. Passion drives many men and I would put my passion against anyone in this club and win every time.
Rag me as you will, I am 56 years old and have made a GREAT living selling my passion and many many parts. I am not a lay down step and fetch it, I profess my passion and if anyone does not like it WAY too bad. I also believe in honesty and morality and live and breathe it every day and do not have ANY police record except for maybe a few speeding tickets!!!!!!!!!
If I am a character that you cannot stand, so be it. I am in 914s for life, many of YOU come and go. Criticize as you may, I am the king of the 914s and have the parts the cars the knowledge and the passion to back it up. The only thing that I would change about this business if I could would be to find some fellow passionate 914 people to have as employees who realize that when we want the parts for our cars we want them now with the right tech advice and someone on the other end of the line who just understands!!! I am that guy here for you and I want to talk to every one of you personally and will NEVER not be on the phone every day and NEVER not be in the middle of another 914 restoration (and I LOVE driving my new Ford mid engined GT)!

Posted by: 736conver Feb 25 2009, 03:15 PM

Makes me want to place an order

Shouldnt matter if its a one time customer or a 30 year customer. You should treat your customers like you would want to be treated. Not left hanging.

Posted by: ellisor3 Feb 25 2009, 03:48 PM

As with most disputes, this is clearly nothing more than a communication issue. Responsibilityshould be taken on both sides. George should change his confirmation to stipulate that the parts may or may not be in stock call the 800 number to verify status and ship time. And everyone should understand the deal on the sale. It was pretty simple. The only other answer is not to take web orders during sales.

I have ordered parts from AA as well with not always knowing where or when the parts were to arrive. I simply pick up the phone and get an answer. Sometimes within and sometimes outside of George's control. I have accepted what some would consider sub-par service in the parts department because of the eagerness of George and his staff to help solve issues and provide great advice. I dropped about $16k at AA over the past 8 months in parts and repairs so I have been on both sides of the aisle.

Simple communication would have solved the issue, let's all go have a and bitch about something we can actually do something about, like the economy or who wins American Idol.

Posted by: 6freak Feb 25 2009, 03:53 PM

I all ready said all this just not so many words .....

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Feb 25 2009, 04:13 PM

Ah... there you are.. that self rightous prick I spoke to on the phone probably 10 years ago. Every time I even think about ordering from you, something like this comes out. As far as this particular situation, I could see both sides - no big deal. Then you had to go and be who your are.
As far as making a "great" living, the amount of money you have left on the table is staggering.

Thanks for the quote your highness. I will read it (and forward it) any time I find myself (or anyone else) thinking of giving you a chance. What a little, little man...

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 04:35 PM

yup I do consider myself the king of the 914, and the jester dedicating my life to the car Scott. At least you are man enough to put your name on your comments. Good for you. My little claim to fame in the world, yet it is really nothing, but obviously it affected you so good for me!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope you are taking good care of one of my 914s.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 04:39 PM

I am right here ready to take it simply call right now 1 800 792 4944!

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 04:52 PM

AMEN brother!!!!


Actually I treat everyone BETTER than I treat myself because I am very HARD on myself I have great compassion for my fellow human being including those who like to call others names.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 25 2009, 04:56 PM

No more complaing from me some story everytime with this cat.
There are plenty of other vendors out there. We can give them the business and not be treated like this.



GPR New owner...miss you Dave.
Pelican Parts......awesome customer service.
Sunset imports......great prices on factory parts. Cheaper then AA and they are a Porsche dealer
Eagle Day
Pap-parts
HPH
car-parts.com good for junkyard parts.
Anyone of the various world pac dealers.
Of course Ebay.

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 05:16 PM

And we make a better rear panel than anyone in the market and have the passed on licensing to do it! Bought the company!
944 914 even the 911 rear reflective panel. VERY very nice stuff. Sour grapes HUH?

We also have the GOOD release mechanisms for the 914 update, and recently Chad even has created a clear rear update to match the clear italian lenses we had made.

The market needs many more 914 pieces. If you call me personally I could suggest something that you could make and then we could buy it from you. Seem to have a lot of time on your hands to waste it making rear update lenses (which personally I HATE!!!!!!!)

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Feb 25 2009, 05:17 PM

wow. my first use of the "ignor" function. feels goooooooooood.

Posted by: Ferg Feb 25 2009, 05:24 PM

I had to read that twice, I was like cool we have a igor function






Attached image(s)

Posted by: dr914@autoatlanta.com Feb 25 2009, 05:25 PM

ok men let's get the rest of the hate out and let this thread die. I will like scotty says sit back and just read.

Please remember though that I am always available for the best in 914 tech advice (and really any other porsche for that matter) 770 427 2844 ext 16 cell 404 308 5652 or my home number 770 971 4960. You can call anytime, the phone rings lightly so it will not disturb Mia and the kids.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 25 2009, 05:30 PM

WOW!!!!

Sour grapes????

I have communicated with Chad a couple of times. We make the same kind of rear panels. Except I flame polish my edges.

I like to create things and your telling me im wasting my time doing something I like to do.

I guess no one should ever make anything for the 914 except for you. As its a waste of our time.

Unbelievable.

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 25 2009, 05:54 PM

I just want to start off by saying... I love my 914! It is the 3rd 914 I have owned of many, many cars. I simply just love them. My first one was also a 75, painted Guards Red, and I owned it when I was 19 (in 1987). It was my daily driver for 3 years until a girl putting on lipstick rear ended me at a red light. Next, I had a beautiful black 73 2.0 with a 5 lug conversion and Fuchs. I LOVED that car. It was also my daily driver for several years. When I moved to Maui, I sold it... I should have kept it. Time passes, things change, shit happens. I was fortunate enough a couple of years ago to have a white 75 with 40,000 original miles fall in my lap after 15 years in between. A very clean example. I suddenly became re-acquainted with this lovely little car that has always been my favorite automobile, hands down. Old memories flooding in, and new ones to be made. I am so happy to be back in the world of 914's once again.

I am very thankful for the fellowship I feel here at 914World. I am fairly new to this forum, but I have already met some extraordinary people and made some wonderful friends. I do truly appreciate being a part of this site, and am grateful for all of the help I have been offered here.

As far as this shitstorm I have obviously started ~ As my good friend Martine Verduzgo always says, "What can ju du, men?" Seriously, sometimes you just gotta say....What can you do? I chose to vent here to my peers on a subject that was not new to me, and apparently not to some others as well. I wasn't looking for a right or wrong, just to be heard. Good business goes a long way, but so does bad. True colors do have a funny way of showing themselves.

This wonderful little car has a label, it says Porsche. Unfortunately, with that word comes a certain stigma from time to time. Generally not so much with the 914... but sometimes. Mostly, the attitude I have found here at 9World is very positive. People helping people. But the ego monster does raise its ugly head from time to time. I can be as guilty as the next guy, and do get caught up... but for the most part I try to lead a positive and happy existence.

BTW ~ My 914 was made in Germany, and I own it... and I love it.

Posted by: turboman808 Feb 25 2009, 06:18 PM

What a huge ego. I admit I am a cocky ass. I still treat my customers with the utmost respect and offer the best customer service I can. Thing is I don't even have to but I do.

How in the world is not making your customers feel comfortable ordering from you a good thing?

Canceling an order and not informing the customer is bad business not matter what dreamland you live in. Even if the part wasn't in stock I would have honored the price after making such a mistake of not informing the customer immediately.



I wouldn't order from you after reading this. What if my order is canceled on a whim and unless I call every day how will I know? What if it's defective and you tell me to bad? If I order a part it's because I need it. I would not be ordering otherwise.

If you can keep such an ego and stay in business more power to ya. I won't be ordering from you.

Posted by: MoveQik Feb 25 2009, 06:45 PM

Yeah...that was everyone's first thought when you were selling/swapping VIN's on eBay.

This is all the same shit, just a new customer discovering it.

Posted by: zonedoubt Feb 25 2009, 06:57 PM

This seems like a good time to throw out my suggestions for making the AA shopping experience better. I read and understood the terms of the Valentine's Day Sale so have no complaints there, but there are some steps that seem to missing from AA's order process. (And yes, I have brought these up before with AA so this isn't me just venting here.)

1) Show stock availability on the web-site. Pelican Parts does it, so do many other Porsche/VW parts sites. So why can't AA?

2) The email confirmation at time of order is nice, but it's just an automatically generated sales order showing what was in the "shopping cart". OK, but isn't useful info. How about following up the auto-response with a sales order showing what is in stock, and what is backordered. That will give the customer a chance to ask for a "ship and backorder" or cancel items or whatever.

3) Let me know when the items have shipped and provide me with a tracking number. It would be nice to get this without having to ask for it.

4) No FedEx or USPS ground to Canada? Huh? Help out your brothers to the north who get stiffed by courier brokerage charges. How about a shipping rate schedule that the customer can look at, you know so much freight for such and such an order amount, etc. How about free shipping above a certain amount? I just hate getting jacked by surprise shipping charges.

5) Twice I've ordered and specified the "ship to" address as different to "bill to". But both times it got shipped to the "bill to". I like to get my deliveries to my work address and not have to call the courier to reroute the package after waiting for the mandatory one unsuccessful delivery.

6) Provide a mechanism for allowing customers to check the status of their order online. Yeah of course can pick up the phone and call, but isn't the point of an e-store to eliminate the phone calls.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 25 2009, 07:04 PM

I think all that is probably irrelevant now. I can't imagine anyone reading this thread who will buy again from AA unless there's no other alternative. Talk about showing your true colors. Unbelievable.

Posted by: scotty b Feb 25 2009, 07:08 PM

Like the flecks of rust through the floorboard




Attached image(s)

Posted by: SLITS Feb 25 2009, 07:10 PM

We, as a group, are a far more infinite knowledge base than the self proclaimed King could ever be, so he isn't going to win at that game. None of us pretend to know it all except for Cap'n Krusty and JP

As far as being an enthusiast, I would like to see an image of his hands complete with blisters. I doubt that the blisters are from turning wrenches, but from self-love.

And my name is Ron. You can read it in my signature if the comphrension level in GA has risen a few points.

Posted by: J P Stein Feb 25 2009, 07:38 PM

The difference between me & the Capn' is he really does know it all where as I just pretend. Anyone following my advice gets what they paid for.

Posted by: dlestep Feb 25 2009, 08:05 PM

...I can't believe all this banter about an easy subject...you have one day of 20% off anything in stock...
It would be like walking in the store and see a big sign that says 20% off everything in the store today only. When you approach the counter, he would say, dude, you can have anything on the shelf for 20% off today...fuzzy dash board cover?
Uuhh, we don't have that. Would you like a basketweave instead? No thank you, I was hoping to have a none stock fuzzy appearance to my dash...I'll pass.
Get over it...how much can 20% off fuzzy dash covers be...maybe 5.00.
Now, if you were buying a 15x10 Fuchs rim, we would be talking a real 20% off!
Now if you wanted a genuine Porsche component...george has it.
If you wanted a genuine fuzzy dash cover, then maybe you should have gone to the source at Jaun Valdez's fuzzy dash cover shop (and he may throw in a pair of dingle balls).
Dave

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 25 2009, 08:06 PM

Me too ...

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 25 2009, 08:19 PM

You obviously missed the point, by a longshot ~ It runs a little deeper than just a fuzzy dash cover on a 20% off day....
And Juan Valdez makes coffee, not fuzzy dash covers or dingle balls. Whatever those are...

Posted by: turboman808 Feb 25 2009, 09:13 PM

Except in this case the store clerk went in the back of the store to see if they had it and smoke a joint in the alley for 3 hours leaving you waiting. Came back and then said "Naw dude we didn't have it so I forgot about you and your needs and got baked instead."

Posted by: LarryR Feb 25 2009, 09:21 PM

Man I am SERIOUSLY underpaid if people are charging 1500/hr for that. Maybe I could work out a will work for parts deal with auto atlanta ... I am a Sr. software engineer with 12 years experience.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 25 2009, 11:12 PM

Same here (30+ years experience).
Back in the day of the DotCom boom, $150/hour was common, but these days, you're lucky if you get $100/hour.
Currently, $85 per hour seems to be the going rate for good web development work.


I think the Dodger of Cones is off by one zero and some change.
Andy

Posted by: sww914 Feb 25 2009, 11:33 PM

I love AA threads. This is like watching a train wreck every time, it just keeps going and going. CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! CRASH! CRASH!
Good fun!
And just when you think it's all stopped George will say something else to get it going again.

Posted by: bandjoey Feb 25 2009, 11:34 PM

I too had my day when I said NO MORE. Phone call orders too. So, the Bird has received at least a grand of my money last year because of the excellent communications. IF AA would hire a new customer service / inventory specialist / communications Manager to take over the work flow, and let us know there's a new gun in town, he'd double his business in 12 months. I actually Want to buy from him just because of what he's done for the 914. Let me know when the New Man takes over the inventory order department.
just my 2cents. Bill

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 26 2009, 12:01 AM

NUFF SAID...

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 12:16 AM

wow...


I guess I'll say that the Promo deal not working out kinda sucks. Even during a huge sale, most companies still make money, unless its the Circuit City like blowout sale where you're just trying to purge all the leftover inventory. But thats a different ballgame anyways. So, George, you didnt lose alot of money, you just didn't make as much. If your losing money, its because you're overstocking certain parts, where your inventory doesn't reflect your sales. Hence probably why the dash wasn't in stock.

This is clearly a glitch in the system, which worked out to take advantage of the customer. Not exactly George's fault, but it does seem unfair.

Now, for what happened to Jon Bovey seems kinda ridiculous.

my .02 and a chance to stir the pot.

BTW, I buy from both Pelican and AA. If I need a part, I look for who has a good deal. I say this to clear up... I have no ill feelings either way.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 01:12 AM

Our company is paying a Mr. Joshua English who's resume includes websites for Presidential campaigns $1500/hour... Don't look at me, I didn't make the deal. I just write classes. But I did see his contract...

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 02:08 AM

Well, in all seriousness, your company has been taken for a ride ... Big time ...

Call me.
I'll do it (and them some) for 1/10th of the price. Quality work, been doing this stuff since the day the internet went public.
Been programming since '78.

Got a resume longer than a roll of toilet paper.
Andy

Posted by: Richard Casto Feb 26 2009, 07:05 AM

Posted by: carr914 Feb 26 2009, 07:20 AM

100% TRUE, I was part of that deal.

T.C.

Posted by: Bucci Feb 26 2009, 08:02 AM

You my friend have hit the nail on the head....! I had one run in with AA.... Poor customer service... thats why I do not buy from AA...! Talk about shady deals, listen to this...... I started getting a quote on some parts for a customers six car, the cost was around $300-$500 unconfirmed by me nor my customer. I always get firm quotes and then commit after I hear the final number with tax...! The parts show up at my shop with out my authorization.... Greedy sales men not George....! I am sure but this is the type of people his company has hired..!

This is a private group/ club.... lets vote and keep him from interacting on this form if we do not like what he has to say/ sell...! Its always about the people and George's company has pompous ass's working for him.

When I meet him and shake his hand I'll form my own opinion about him at that point... its a very small 914 world out there, he is just making it smaller by interacting with our people......

Marc
619-726-9012

Posted by: ericread Feb 26 2009, 08:39 AM

hahaha!

If we vote to remove all the "pompous ass's " on this board, who'd be left to post?

Posted by: carr914 Feb 26 2009, 10:00 AM

Posted by: faux916 Feb 26 2009, 10:16 AM

This thread is an episode of Seinfeld. A thread about nothing. The rules of the sale were posted before the sale. Why bitch and complain. Its pointless! Get over it!

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 12:08 PM

Andy,
You know I would call you to do this in a heartbeat but we are multinational and though I only have two people above me in my division, those decisions are made way over my head. So far so, that I have never met the people who make those decisions. I was just told to coordinate classes I write with him so they could be web presented. I talked to him and he didn't seem to care what form I used. It is an internal site that runs way more than just my education effort though... Since he didn't care, I am using Powerpoint and he integrates it into the education portion of the site. I no longer have to compile lists of who needs what class since the internal site informs everyone of what they need and the deadline for completion. It even sends a notice to HR and supervisors when they don't complete requirements in a timely manner. It even sends notice to me when classes are failed after third attempt.
Not sure why he is so expensive either. That is why I said it might be less now... The site integrates our communications center so that by going to this internal website supervisors and dispatchers can see the GPS location of any ambulance as well as speed and direction of travel. The charting and billing which used to be all on paper, is now done on laptops inside the ambulances which the crew takes inside the hospital to docking stations so our billing is going out almost before the patient gets out of the ER. This has apparently been in response to insurance companies and Medicare/Medicaid holding onto everything for 90 days before paying.
It is Huxley's 1984 come to fruition. We even have cameras in the ambulance barns so operations managers can log on and "bust" people scewing around during work hours. The Paramedic/EMT union managed to keep this from happening 5 years ago but the company used it in bargaining and now it is in development or gone live across the system.

Sorry for the hijack... You guys can get back to excoriating George for doing you a favor and giving you 20% off now

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 12:12 PM

OK, you start. Quit bitching about the bitching.

Seinfeld? You didn't read the whole thread, did you? George revealed himself, and no, it wasn't Costanza. Very, um.... revealing. Evidently rules, for the sale they had or for business in general, don't apply to George, because he's king. HE says, but we haven't actually voted yet.

Oh, and congrats for reviving the thread, probably the most entertaining I've seen in months. And just when everybody else had gotten tired of it, too.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 12:16 PM

I'm not sure what part of the world you grew up in, but where i come from, a monarch is rarely "voted" into his position by the people ...
Andy

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 12:19 PM

Oh... I absolutely believe Jon.... its ridiculous on AA's part. But whatever


I love Seinfeld.

I'll add the commercial


bow dow dow ba bada... badadadah. (my slap bass )

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 26 2009, 12:20 PM

Whats 20% off of 150% mark-up?

Oh, and Seinfeld was a tv show...

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 12:24 PM

Ah, but the point was exactly that the discount was promised (order confirmation) then NOT given. I can't imagine anyone complaining about GETTING a 20 percent discount. And that wasn't the case here.

No big deal, it wasn't much money and it wasn't my money. It wasn't my money because this happened to me years ago with AA, so it will never happen again. But it isn't a question of money anyway, that's simplistic. It's whether you can accept someone's word about something. If their word is no good then you don't want to be sending them money and hoping for the best. Well I guess YOU can do that if you want to, but I won't.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 12:25 PM

Obviously. A joke, Andy, just a joke...

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 12:28 PM

Which one is it?

or

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 12:31 PM

Ok, you're asking for it ...

Then why the hell did you order from them in the first place?

If you think they're overpriced, i've got news for you:
Buy your stuff somewhere else.

Really, it's that easy.
Andy

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 12:33 PM

Neither:

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 12:37 PM

was that directed to me?


Remember how the show began... you have the bassline... then a short stand up from Jerry Seinfeld..

The slap bass was an element of the show

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 26 2009, 12:43 PM

Amen... I work hard for my money, and it does matter to me who gets it. King George has taken himself off of my list. Buying Trying to buy the Juan Valdez fuzzy dash cover from him was an attempt on my part to give his company another chance to regain my business. God forbid I ordered something I actually REALLY NEEDED. Once again, he proved to me (not any of you) that he does not deserve to get one red cent of my hard earned money ever again. Not because of the RULES OF THE SALE, but rather how he handles himself professionally, in his and the company's dealings with ME. It wasn't an isolated incident for me, just the last.

Posted by: faux916 Feb 26 2009, 12:43 PM

I am sure it was directed towards me and Yes seinfeld was a tv show. A tv show about nothing,just like this thread

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 12:46 PM

ohh... ok Bob... I do agree lol

Posted by: SLITS Feb 26 2009, 01:02 PM

Well a man come on the 6 oclock news
Said somebodys been shot, somebodys been abused
Somebody blew up a building
Somebody stole a car
Somebody got away
Somebody didnt get too far yeah
They didnt get too far

Grandpappy told my pappy, back in my day, son
A man had to answer for the wicked that he done
Take all the rope in texas
Find a tall oak tree, round up all of them bad boys
Hang them high in the street for all the people to see that

Chorus:

Justice is the one thing you should always find
You got to saddle up your boys
You got to draw a hard line
When the gun smoke settles well sing a victory tune
Well all meet back at the local saloon
Well raise up our glasses against evil forces
Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

Posted by: black73 Feb 26 2009, 01:25 PM

Huxley= Brave New World
George Orwell=1984
Van Halen= 1984
George Hussey= AA

This thread=

Posted by: carr914 Feb 26 2009, 01:43 PM

Andy, what time does the Poll Start? Wait, is that Political?

T.C.

Posted by: WRX914 Feb 26 2009, 01:57 PM

Posted by: strawman Feb 26 2009, 02:03 PM

I was going to keep mum, but enough already...

I have been around the block with literally dozens of projects in my teen and adult life, including 2-stroke cafe motorcycles, air-cooled VWs, heavily-modified rockcrawlers, karting, RX7s, MR2s, untold frankenstein engine swaps, etc. In all cases, I tried to build as much of the project with my own hands as possible, but I had to rely on some "outside" experts for some aspect or another for each project.

With regard to my current 914 project, George is one of those experts that has helped me immensely, and he is willing to share that expertise willingly. I have purchased most of my 914 needs from him, but I have also ordered from other vendors and bought stuff from members on this board. I had one issue with a product I bought from AA, but George was great to work with to rectify the problem. I've since bought more stuff from him and I don't think these public tirades will convince me to do otherwise in the future.

We gotta realize that providing 914 parts is a "cottage" industry that will never get the support that Miatas, Honda Civics, Corvettes or other ubiquitous cars get. In fact, I would be surprised if AA receives a large proportion of its sales from 914 owners... I would imagine that 911s, Boxsters and Caymans represent a vast majority and increasing portion of their annual sales.

Lets move on, get out into the garage, and enjoy working on improving our teeners!

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 02:16 PM

A simple check of both the AA catalog and the Pelican site is rather revealing in debunking some of the myth being perpetuated here.

I randomly chose a part. The trim piece on the trailing edge of the rollbar.
(914 559 101 10). AA offers it in new and used condition. New is $177.07 used is in the $70 range and I only include that to illustrate the deeper level of service that AA and HPH offer. Pelican Parts which has done all of the things you guys are going after AA and George personally for in my own experience offers the same part for $175.50.

AA offered 20% off their price or about $35.00. Pelican doesn't even offer the used part and didn't step up here and offer 20% off...

So, saying George is upcharging 150% before offering 20% off is a lot of things but the least of these is very inaccurate. In truth, AA is, on this part less than 1% higher. If you would like to dispute this, show us a part that AA is 150% higher than one of these other suppliers you don't publically excoriate. Oh, and they have to have the part.

I have gotten split shipments from Pelican more than doubling the cost of what I ordered. I have gotten parts that I didn't order and didn't need in place of parts I did order and did need. I have gotten an Italian turn signal lens and a regular one when I ordered a pair of Euro lenses, then after the return hassle I got two different shades of amber in the Euro lenses and had to return them again. If you want perfection and uniform quality buy a new car. I cannot count the number of times I have had to speak to the owner to get things right. AA is not exclusive in the ability to mess up an order.

I am not ragging on Pelican here. I am simply pointing out that you guys go after AA because it is a fashion. George did maybe 100's of us a favor by having a one day 20% off sale and this is what he gets? Makes me wonder why he bothers.

By the way, in case you are wondering, I haven't made an AA purchase in probably a year or more. Not because I wouldn't, I just don't need much at this point.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 26 2009, 02:43 PM

I got different prices then you. What did I miss .
http://www.autoatlanta.net/action.lasso?-database=AAdatabase&-layout=Items&-response=results.lasso&-operator=eq&partnumber2=914%20559%20101%2010%20&-maxrecords=10&-search
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_BDYext_pg4.htm#item23

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 02:47 PM

You used the website. As I stated, I used the catalog.

Posted by: dinomium Feb 26 2009, 02:53 PM

that is SO right Andy,
Supreme power can only be wielded by a mandate of the people. I mean if some watery tart thrust a spear my way and I start demanding people call me Emperor, they'd think me Daft!

oh wait, that might be from The Holy Grail... I could be wrong...

Posted by: 736conver Feb 26 2009, 02:53 PM

Well theres the problem, not really a good comparison using that information. $50 difference. 20% off is still more expensive then Pelican.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 26 2009, 03:03 PM

You really can't go based on his catalog though Rob. Like what happened to me. He does not honor the prices listed in there. Then he lies about the stock he has. I was supposed to have bought the very last badge he had . Somehowhe has seven sitting on the shelf a month later? The prices really are not the issue for me. It is how the business is being conducted. You may have had these issues with other vendors but I have not. I deal only with Jonathan, now GPR, and he gets it right everytime. In fact he will tel you to go elsewhere if he knows he can't beat their price. Eric, PMB, gives great service while going the extra mile and gives great advice. Paragon, great prices. Patrick, good service and parts with what I needed. JWest, great products and shipping was fast.

No issues with any of them on my side. All parts shipped quickly and communication was excellent.

The other iteams I ordered from AA a long time ago and they were wrong. Did I call to make it right? no. My fault but they were simple rubber gaskets and I decided to just get them from Paragon. Other guys in the shop I worked at bought a large order from AA and he didn't get all the parts he ordered and the ones he did get were in poor condition.

Again, I have no issue with George running this as his hobby and have respect for what he does. I sure would love to do what he does. But as for a business I don't enjoy anything about it.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 26 2009, 03:04 PM

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 03:04 PM

why is there two different prices for AA then?



lol at grail reference

Posted by: 736conver Feb 26 2009, 03:06 PM

Just out of curiousity I did another comparison.

I need a new door handle dont have the funds to order right now but some price shopping shows.

Pelican $124
Zimms $129
AA $225
WorldPac with lock and key $182. The others were without a lock and key.

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 26 2009, 03:09 PM

The statement was made to try and make a point, not to be taken literally - for obvious reasons. I have found, at one time or another, prices to be higher there than competitors. That fact alone would not constitute me taking my business elsewhere. Yes there are parts offered that may or may not be available elsewhere, and for that - we expect to pay. But lets not take advantage of that fact. I am always looking for the best deal possibile, but sometimes you gotta pay. The bad taste in my mouth has more to do with ethics and customer service/treatment. ABC parts could have every part specific to my car and the guy who runs it a plethora of knowledge, but if I consider his business ethics not up to par, or I just plain and simply don't like him... I'm not going to give him my money. I will go where I am appreciated as a customer and given a fair shake - and will be loyal to my dying breath. End of story.

At first I thought, "Oh boy, what have I started" by creating this thread. I am actually glad I did though, because it has further solidified my opinion of a man who could stand to eat a whole 'humble pie', and then some. Just MY two cents.

I am done with this thread, have at it. I have a day off and am going out to the garage and work on my car... then take it for a nice long drive up the coast.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 03:09 PM

No... still a good example. Once again, I refer you to page 5 of the catalog where it says "prices subject to change..." Your challenge was to show me a part that is 150% more. I'm not sure who said it, and they have probably edited it out now but someone said that George raised his prices 150% and then gave us 20% off.

Again, the only thing I can see that AA could have done better is to follow up on the order confirmation with a call or e-mail saying the part was not in stock. Even then, he stated in the announcement that if it was not in stock your order would be cancelled. If you didn't like that condition don't take the playing field.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 03:24 PM

You said the 150% - 20%. In print it is literally - literal. There is no reason for anyone to think they are not to take it literally unless you state it. No one could hear the tone in your voice that indicated it meant anything other than an ethical attack.

Your problem is you got a confirmation and then true to what George stated, your order was cancelled. To me that means you have no valid problem. George did EXACTLY what he said he would do in the announcement post. You expect different. It ain't Macy's. AA isn't going to bend over and take it in the shorts because you aren't a happy customer. There are a number of reasons I can think of why George would make that kind of condition. For one thing, if he doesn't have the fuzzy dash whatever in stock he probably can't order just one and then he is stuck with twenty (if he can even order that few) of something no one but you wants.

I'm glad you are done with this thread. Too bad you never started it.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 03:30 PM

I guess that's the difference, a random universe. My only experience with AA was negative. 100 percent. I've never had a bad experience with Pelican, including them calling me to ask which piece I really needed. Sterling service, and they were interested, the exact opposite of AA.

The problem with that, of course, is that it's anecdotal and statistically irrelevant. The significant difference is that "AA Sucks!" threads are common. You've seen them before, we all have. Fashion? Pretty unlikely. I think it's attitude. Pelican makes a mistake, everyone does, and there is absolutely no hesitation in their actions to correct and make things right. The same situation at AA is pulling one of George's teeth. He's rude and condescending, exactly the way he was earlier in this thread. That's the difference, the sour taste in the mouth, the reason people don't forgive and forget AA.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter to any of us. Buy parts where you want and be happy. But it is good for newcomers to get some feedback and a heads-up. So, unlike Seinfeld, this kind of discussion (and venting) is actually helpful and Sroductive.

So Andy, I'm looking forward to these elections for KING!!!

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 03:51 PM

Once again, irrelevent to the point. These reproduction door handles started showing up on the market a year or so back. I think it is Parts Heaven that sells them on EBay. You are comparing genuine Porsche to reproduction. Not a valid point.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 03:56 PM

Comparing prices is irrelevent anyway, Rob. The only way to know AA's prices is to call them. And get an order confirmation. Then see what the price actually is when it finally shows up in your mail box.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 04:05 PM

Not fashion? Really? I wonder if I would get any support if I aired my complaints about Pelican Parts here? I know plenty of others who have had the same problems with them. Am I to assume then that we are just all reasonable people who took our valid complaint to the source instead of starting a mythstorm of negativity on the internet where it can spread like herpes through a trailer park?

Why shouldn't newcomers form their own opinions based on experience? If it is a random universe isn't it possible their experience could be 100% positive?

George did exactly what he said he was going to do. Where is the problem?

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 04:08 PM

I'll start a poll ...

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 04:11 PM

I have had the same experience with Rich Bontempi at HPH. I got a $75 bolt once. Do you see Rich Bontempi having his name dragged through the mud in HPH bashing threads?

But once again, this is not responsive. So far we have had one example where George has a price less than 1% higher and another comparing a genuine Porsche part that is pretty much unobtainium to a reproduction. Show me where AA raised their prices 150% and then offered 20% off. It didn't happen.

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 26 2009, 04:12 PM

Or my less than stellar experience with Patrick Motorsports and their parts?
Talk about condescending "you don't spent enough money with us so we treat you like shit" attitude.
And then those expensive parts don't fit and need major reworking.

Did you see me start a "PMS sucks!" thread?
Andy

Posted by: mikez Feb 26 2009, 04:22 PM

YOU can't...that's MY job....

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 26 2009, 04:23 PM

No, Z does that enough

Speaking of which. I bought all my parts from him before I knew more about them. After the stories I have heard I don't believe I will be buying from him if I don't need to. Jim did well for me when I needed the parts but having heard what has happened to other members looks very bad. It really isn't about prices orquality of parts. It is about service and courtesy. Calling yourself king or saying because you don't spend much here does not go over well at all. I do believe that issues that are brought up here are good for knowing who deserves our support and who does not.

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 26 2009, 04:24 PM

you beat me to it

Posted by: mtndawg Feb 26 2009, 04:33 PM

This was a great sale. Dr 914 did have the rules set before the sale (I read them). I appreciate that I can talk to George whenever I call AA. The service is awesome!

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 04:51 PM

Good one. A Georgia trailer park? Really. You ought to start a "Pelican Sucks" thread to test your theory and see what the common experience is. I'll bet yours is the exception, not the rule. Do it, let's find out. It may illustrate why AA threads pop up so regularly while complaints about other suppliers don't. Something to do with shared experiences.



Could be, but to judge from the dozens of threads I've seen over the years the chances are pretty slim. I go out of my way to help out new people, so they don't step in the same crap holes I did. That's what civilization is about, building on the experiences of others. They don't HAVE to take your advice, but to not give it at all is an unquestionable misservice.


No, he didn't. The buyer got an order confirmation for that price, and THAT is what George said he was going to do. Fulfill that order. At that price. In writing. That's a contract. If he didn't have the part in stock he should NEVER confirm the order. That's a mistake, and one he's been making for years without any effort to correct. But mistake or not, once an order's confirmed there's an obligation to deliver. So he decided for whatever reason that he didn't want to fill it and saved himself five bucks or whatever. At what cost to AA and their reputation? That is so incredibly, unbelievably stupid. You shouldn't be buying from him just for that reason, that stupidity shouldn't be rewarded.

You heard George, he's King of the 914's. He'll do whatever he wants and we can go screw. Those aren't acceptable business practices to me. They may be to someone else. So there's no problem. You continue to buy from AA, I won't. No muss, no fuss, simple. Done.

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 26 2009, 04:55 PM

Done.

One more time. Done.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 26 2009, 04:59 PM

Oh good...

Posted by: SLITS Feb 26 2009, 05:13 PM

No it isn't. We can start another thread. Thank you Ahandie.

Posted by: dw914er Feb 26 2009, 05:15 PM

maybe can we get someone to do a stand up before the next thread... maybe Jerry himself?

Posted by: scotty b Feb 26 2009, 07:41 PM

A : hire a new staff that is capable of correctly completing an order = Extra pay = no GT40 for King George

B : revamp the website to make it user friendly = more money = no GT40 for King George

C : charge a competitive rate for products = less income = no GT40 for King George


you guys have NO business sense do you ??

Posted by: r_towle Feb 26 2009, 08:16 PM

Damn this thread got long...

An order confirmation is just that. Its not a contract until the CC is charged.
If that happened, and then it was refunded, the implied contract is void.
This type of transaction and the refund etc happen all day long all over the internet.

Sir Andy would be my first choice to hire for a programmer..hes aces.


As far as George being King of the 914...well George...Bite me.
I say that with a smile and a beer in my hand.
I get Georges sense of humor, he is an old yankee that moved south a while back.
He does love these little cars.

And BTW George...my 914 is not your, never was, and never will be...its mine mine mine...all of them.
Unless you wanna trade for the GT40...then you can have all of them...I wont blink.

Rich

Posted by: MoveQik Feb 27 2009, 12:06 AM

Funny....I have bought very little in parts from him but he recognizes my voice when I call his shop. Nothing but great info and great service. Its a crazy world.

Posted by: ericread Feb 27 2009, 02:31 PM

OK, I may be a bit anal, but whenever I go to purchase a substantial dollar amount of 914 parts, I create a worksheet that lists the parts, and compare pricing out AA, Pelican and whatever other vendors of which I have knowledge. When I know I can, I use the vendor's website for pricing. For AA I give them a call. ALl things being equal, I buy from the vendor with the best price/shipping/prior experience. Sometimes it's AA, sometimes it's not.

Obviously I only use known vendors of which I have had good experiences. Life is too short to do business with somene that I know to be a PIA!

I have kept all of these comparisons in monthly tabs of a master worksheet for the past three years. AA doesn't always come out on top, but I have purchased several thousand dollars of parts from them, and I am not dissapointed with these purchases one bit.

My suggestion; If you don't like AA, don't do business with them. The same applies with Pelican, HPH, etc. And from some of the posts in this thread, it appearrs that George would actually be ahead with not doing business with some of you. If you don't like/respect someone, stop associating with that person. It'll make your life and the life of the vendor much better...

BTW: I just received my AA sale parts this morning! Everything was in the box and I saved 20%

Yeah, I guess I'll continue to do business with George...

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 27 2009, 03:04 PM

Yeah, definitely anal, but Great advice! I stopped dealing with AA about ten years ago, and you're right, things have been better ever since! It's bliss baby! Oh, that's right, I got divorced about that same time, which might have had something to do with that...

Actually the only time this subject comes up in the forums is when somebody new gets his dick caught in the AA wringer and posts because he's angry or wants some sympathy. Then the whole chorus pipes up again, and la la la...

I agree, it gets old. Unfortunately it keeps happening, coming back, just like that goddamned rash... so what are the alternatives? Three that I can think of:

1. If you don't like threads where people bitch about AA then just don't read them!
2. Make a rule: "NEWBIES!! Don't complain about AA!!!". Or maybe:
3. Have George improve his customer service.

Yeah, they're logical enough, but I have to agree with you, people will bitch, ignore rules, and George thinks he's King. Oh well, looks like this one's dead.

So what do you think, Bone Stock vs. Big Four vs. Six vs. Subaru?

Posted by: ericread Feb 27 2009, 03:34 PM

Damn!!! Now you're really asking for trouble!!!

Besides, you forgot V-8!!!

Eric

Posted by: 6freak Feb 27 2009, 03:41 PM

no one else buy parts from AA so when i need something it will always be there..

Posted by: bryanf Feb 27 2009, 04:17 PM

whine, whine, whine...I read the rules, ordered the parts, received them in a timely way and enjoyed the 20% discount...Thanks George!

Posted by: tradisrad Feb 27 2009, 05:03 PM

I ordered some parts during his sale. when the parts came it was missing one item. The sales order had all 0's for that item. So after reading thread this I can assume that I need to re-order the item as it has been canceled. It would have been nice to know that before reading it here.
I ordered a new jack post and mount as well as some other stuff. I was bummed to find that the jack support and post are made in Taiwan.

bryanf, you're just over the hill from me. I live off of Bunker Hill Dr @ 280..

Posted by: 736conver Feb 27 2009, 05:30 PM

Off topic start

Thats where alot of parts are coming from, overseas. I betcha those new lenses he has are coming from China. Not saying its bad thats just the way companies do business. Keeps the costs down.

But buyer beware. There was an article in the one of my magazines, maybe autoweek, about quality of these parts. Windshield that are not using saftey glass. Cheap bolts etc etc. I believe they told a story of someone dying due to an aftermarket bolt breaking.

Off topic end

Posted by: Jason.H Feb 27 2009, 09:59 PM

The truth about all this!

So here it is, the no b.s. truth about all of this. For those curious I don't have "permission" to post here and George has no idea I'm doing this. To be blunt, screw the repercussions. I'm going to get wordy with it so don't skip the fine print.

For those of you that don't know me my name is Jason Humphrey. In some way I have a hand in just about everything that happens at AA; markup, acquisition, technology, etc. You name it and at some level it has my name on it. Obviously I'm more proud of some areas of that than others.

I can't speak for George, he's...mmm...speaking for himself. Not sure how you want to read this so I'll just list the complaints and details from what I've seen in this thread. Let me start with one that's more of an undertone:

1. AA employees are jerks!
Those of you that know George may very well know him better than I do so for the sake of this discussion we'll leave him out of it. I have known him maybe 4 years, I saw a post earlier that mentioned 10 years...you win.

The fact is the employees at AA do honestly and sincerely care. There have been points where a customer would complain about delayed shipping and we would ask for the cost of next-day shipping to be taken out of our checks. No crap. A good chunk of those of you that dealt with Mclean on delayed orders got rushed shipping out of his paycheck. Those of you prepping the pitch forks for George, don't. I don't believe he ever knew we did it, it was "just take it out of my check and get it out the door." Of course this is the first time it has been said publicly but obviously that's not the kind of thing we openly share.

We're not a bunch of evil people on the other end of the phone, we're consumers just like you. We know how much it can.. well... suck dealing with us. We actively look for ways to improve but we're limited in ways I won't go into here.

If one of us sounds short with you there's likely a reason beyond our perceived hatred for you. With only 2 full time salesmen it can get hectic. I'm not going to make excuses for everyone; Charlie is about 104 years old and probably not very enthusiastic at any point in the day, but he certainly cares a heck of a lot about you.


2. 20% off in-stock, then you don't have it in-stock. WTF??

Yeah, this is tricky. The truth is we have absolutely no inventory tracking. Unless someone actually sees it sitting on a shelf we have no way of knowing what is in stock. Terrible I know, but the way we're setup doesn't really allow for it.

That fact is one reason I cry over these 20% off in-stock sales. Those that have known us for a while know this isn't our first but frankly I hope it's our last. It's a headache but George absolutely loves it.

So why are you sometimes told it's in stock only to find out later that it's not? We literally ship hundreds of packages a day and the vast majority of you order the same 1000 or so parts. Charlie isn't lying to you, he probably did see it on the shelf but by the time your order makes it to be picked the part is gone. I have watched it and he's right more often than not, but when he ends up wrong people are rightfully vocal about it. I'll bring up that we should make it an enforced policy to say we don't know. I always say that but if pressed I'll look at how quickly we have shipped previous orders for the same part and give you a "likely" response. I'm sorry that's all we have for you.


3. You didn't sell all that stuff at a loss, you would go out of business!

As sad as it is we really did sell everything near or at a loss. I crunched the numbers before the sale and put up a good argument about throwing money away, seeing as we're a business and all, but was shot down from every angle. Some employees didn't even want to participate because of it. This wasn't a special year it has been like this every 20% off sale. George writes it off as a marketing expense, albeit an exceedingly expensive one.

Business owners here know that the markup on a product is only part of the equation. Those that have tried to calculate our markup then subtract 20% are leaving out a huge chunk of costs. We have a big building, plenty of employees and a dozen other costs that come out of that markup. The markup = profit that people use when selling stuff out of their basement on ebay just doesn't work for a full business.

Oh and one more note: I noticed someone posted a comparison of one of our parts with PP. The issue with that is it looks like you were quoting a Genuine part from us and an aftermarket part from PP. For those that don't know, if the part number starts with "G" it's Genuine Porsche and will be the most expensive. "R" is aftermarket/OEM (much of the cheap parts on PP), "U" is used, and "B" is rebuilt or our own reproduction piece. Unless I'm missing something then if the PP part ends with -OEM you should compare it to our "R" part if we have one available.


4. Your website sucks! I can't find anything and it was made in 1994!

Yes it does and it was! Wow it's terrible. This is what now takes up the majority of my job at AA. I have almost 17 years in tech and my first day at AA was like hoping for a GT2 and getting a box of dirt.

The fact is the technology we have been running on for years would stumble to load youtube. It's terrible and it's not that we don't know it, I'm working extremely hard at replacing it all. I can't do much with the infrastructure that's there now, it all has to be ripped out, so don't expect what you see now to be polished much more. BUT! There is good news in all this, I have a site mostly finished with all the bells and whistles you have come to expect from other sites. You can login and check your order in real-time, ask questions directly to customer service, modify or cancel orders...all the good stuff.

So why did it go like this for so long? Well George is rather frugal with his technology spending and Greg (the guy before me) was a designer and didn't seem interested much in the technology behind it all. For a few years I did what I could to whip the mule but I had to split my time between a dozen other tasks.

So why isn't it up yet? I'm not entirely sure George knows how much you guys really want it. Heck, maybe I'm the one that's wrong and nobody really cares. But if you do care then feel free to email him and tell him you want it!

Here are a few screenshots of what I'm building:







So I think that should sum it up and get me fired. I'm not here to argue with anyone nor am I trying to portray AA as the perfect company. This is just the facts behind it all.

Posted by: ericread Feb 27 2009, 10:08 PM

Thanks Jason. However, no matter how well the website comes out, I'll still call. I just enjoy speaking with the staff.

Eric Read

Posted by: klink Feb 27 2009, 11:07 PM

You know we have been in kind of an anti- auto atlanta bashing mode for a long time. I think everyone just wanted to give it a rest. So it seems it's game on so here it is. I have ordered parts from Auto Atlanta......It was a horrible experience.....I will never deal with them again...They did not send all the parts for the five lug conversion so they had to send the rest later. They sent the wrong rear wheel bearing and then they sent the wrong wheel bearing again twice, charged me for them all and charged me for shipping. Were talking about around a hundred and fifty dollars. They finally sent me the right wheel bearing and it was a complete nightmare to get them to refund the money for the wrong wheel bearing....it took about four months. I still ate the shipping for their mistake. I have held my tongue long enough...If you are a buyer you better beware...I know they have tried to make things right lately but I really don't think you are going to change somebody that easily. If that's the only place I can get something I will do without. We have great suppliers (i.e. Pelican) and others, why would we put up with this. I was newly reintroduced into the 914 world and didn't know any better. Don't let this happen to you.

Posted by: biosurfer1 Feb 28 2009, 12:45 AM

Jason's is the first post I have seen in all my years on the 914 boards thats a step in the right direction for AA in my opinion.

Its amazing to me how much better the "yes, we have problems and here's why and what we are doing to fix it" attitude is rather than the " F all of you, I'm the king and don't give a crap if you dont like it"

Posted by: dw914er Feb 28 2009, 01:43 AM

well put Jason.

I like the snapshots... ill be lurking on the AA site when its updated

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT Feb 28 2009, 01:52 AM

Posted by: mbrown3039 Feb 28 2009, 02:47 AM

After reading Jason's post -- and because I've owned a few businesses with varying levels of success -- I'll say this: if you don't like AA, don't worry -- Geaorge will either be out of business soon (IMO based solely on Jason's description of the day-to-day) or, whe he passes, no one will want AA because no one will be able to put a positive value on it.

He's definitely running it like a hobby with no growth or customer retention plans. But, hey, this is America -- to each his own! Mike

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 28 2009, 05:46 AM

I run businesses for other people and do turnarounds, and am in total agreement. A gold mine, pissed away.

Jason, thanks. I'm so impressed that y'all would take money out of your own pockets to make the customer happy. The problem is that you recognized the need and did something about it, but your boss has seen exactly the same thing for ten years (or more) and hasn't bothered. That doesn't bode well for the future. Hopefully he'll will gain some insight from this, which would be the best outcome. Unfortunately as folks here have noted, these "AA Sucks" threads have appeared regularly for years on every board, and George has never gotten the message. So don't hold your breath.

Web shots look great. Can't wait.

Posted by: scotty b Feb 28 2009, 06:52 AM

Unfortunately you're wrong. AA has been in business for over 20 years and has ALWAYS had these same issues. There have been several " attempts " and cleaning things up, all of which failed. Until George gets rid of the I want for me attitude and gets the " what is best for my company " attitude it will never change. How many times could that website have been revamped with the money spent on that GT40 ??? How many times could the inventory been catalog and computerized with the money spent on that GT40 ??? I'm also guessing Mr Hussey has a house comperable to that GT40. Why do I keep bringing up the GT 40 ?? Because George himself started his obnoxiousness by bragging about it.

AA will never fail, either George has money to help keep it afloat or has some backers with money to help keep it afloat. I stopped ordering from them several years ago out of the frustration of recieving wrong parts, partts I hadn't orderd, week loong shipping from Ga to Va etc. I did however give them another chance with the intitial group flare buy. I was impressed, hell I even took my negative comment about them in my sig line and changed it to a moderately negative one I won't say I will never order from them again BUT it won't be very often.

to Jason, thnak you for your effort and seeming dedication, I just hope for YOUR sake it is worth it in the long run. And yes the screenshots look great

Posted by: HCRDAN Feb 28 2009, 11:58 AM

Wow... Nothing like watching someone commit commercial suicide.

I've been watching this thread and holding back from sharing my own experience because it would just be piling on. Jason's comment is what enticed me to come out of lurk mode.

1) Jason, your post took courage. Your apparent concern for customer satisfaction, initiative in creating a new website despite what appear to be other limiting factors and the courage you demonstrated in posting and the loyalty you demonstrated to your employer all should be commended. Not only do you deserve to keep your job, if you worked for me, I'd give you a raise and a promotion.

2) No business is perfect. Everyone has at one time or another been disappointed in a business transaction. Sometimes the customer is right and sometimes the business is right. The true mark of a good business is how they recover from having disappointed a customer. Declaring yourself “king” of all 914s Porsches, is probably not the most endearing and effective way to address a customer’s complaint regardless of who is right. Mr. Hussey, there are so many ways you could have deflated this thread long ago. Next time, may I suggest the following reply or a version thereof?

“I’m terribly sorry we disappointed you. Our terms for the sale were “items in stock only” and thus we are not able to honor the sale price for the item you ordered. However, we hate seeing our customers disappointed so we will evaluate how we can prevent similar miscommunications from arising in the future and thank you for considering us as a source of 914 parts in the first place. I’ll do my best to not disappoint you in the future. I am enclosing a coupon for free shipping on your next order with our company.”

3) Following through and evaluating your processes to eliminate potential sources of complaints would be a good move as well. Even if the confirmation email is just an automated response, editing the text either permanently or for the day of the sale with a bold notice stating that “this email is an automated notification that we have received your order. However, it is possible that we do not have some or all of the items in inventory and therefore will not be able to honor the price for items that are presently out of stock. Due to the large volume of order related to this sale, we apologize that we are unable to contact you if that is the case. However, if you have not received your order within 10 days, please call us to confirm status at xxx-xxx-xxxx”.

4) I suggest you make some edits to your email confirmation anyhow, even not during sale periods. My one transaction with AA was quite similar to the theme of the original post. I was looking for a horn ring for the teener and posted a question on this site. Someone pointed me toward the AA catalog and I went online and placed the order for $25 part. I promptly received an email confirmation. That was oh… early December 2008? I’m still waiting for the part. The teener is sitting in the garage waiting for me to do something about it so I can get it inspected but it’s been a low priority. I even keep telling myself that I should check to make sure they did not charge my card. I don’t think that is the case as I don’t get the sense they are dishonest, just disorganized.

5) I’ve been around 911s for some time but I am relatively new to 914s and to this forum. AA’s reputation goes well beyond this site. I first heard of AA years ago from a 911 thread and the theme was remarkably similar. The reputation carried over to an ebay auction for a 904 replica AA was selling recently and comments on various sites concerning that car dealt as much with AA's reputation as with the car itself.

6) Jason, as nice as your new site looks, my recommendation is that you should focus on some sort of inventory tracking system/process. Without it, your new site will likely lead to the same disappointments. At the risk of sounding like an a** myself, good inventory control is fundamental to any retail/wholesale operation. Your banker wants to know; your insurance agent wants to know; and the revenue man want to know the value of your inventory. Your purchasing manager wants to know what is selling and how often it turns, and your customers want to know if the part is in stock or not. Good communications and customer relations are not far behind

7) Like many of you here, I have either run or managed businesses. Sometimes on my own, sometimes publicly traded companies, sometimes owned by an arrogant ass, sometimes by kind, generous, and caring individuals. That’s the way they were born, pretty hard to change ‘em.

It’s a shame.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 28 2009, 12:24 PM

Anybody remember the last time another AA employee posted how things were going to change.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 28 2009, 12:39 PM

Sure, he left and tried to start his own company using the "better business practices" you guys fault AA for and no one has heard from him in a while...

Posted by: 736conver Feb 28 2009, 12:56 PM

Nope wrong guy. It was the same guy that posted here, Jason.

Back in 2006 claimed change was on its way. Funny it all started over the same thing the 20% off sale.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=45552&st=160

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 28 2009, 02:56 PM

I see that there was another in an endless cycle of bash AA threads. I see that Jason said there would be change. Are you so sure that change didn't take place? Change is generally an evolution not a revolution. I believe it was you who said they haven't bought anything from AA in what? 10 years? Why so passionate about something that you have apparently left behind?

As for those of you predicting the demise of AA due to bad business practice, I suspect that almost 30 years in business would contradict your claim... He seems pretty stable business wise.

I am not a regular and frequent AA customer. I have only talked to George once. I occasionally e-mail him and I am flattered that he remembers me and promptly answers my question. I have never found him to be arrogant or demeaning unlike the other "king" you guys are proclaiming. My objection to this thread is that it isn't fair. I have had the same problems with many suppliers, I bet I am not the only one. Why jump all over them. Man up and call them. If you put as much effort into getting what you want as you do into bashing the man and his company on the internet you would very probably have gotten what you want. If you bash him on the internet and then try to simultaneously get what you want I don't blame him for telling you to pound sand. Bottom line is work it out privately.

The original post was from a guy who didn't get what he ordered because it wasn't in stock. See post 10 in the thread announcing the sale. Asked and answered. If it isn't in stock the order will be cancelled. He had no call to post that. Those were the stated conditions. Yet here we are AGAIN going on for pages and pages bashing AA and George.

If you want to be treated like your business is important, be important. Posting crap on the internet is petty. I would tell you to pound sand too...

Have some integrity. Point your toes at George's toes and tell him your problem. Here you're just gathering a crowd to support your claim. I sure can't respect that.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 28 2009, 03:44 PM

Nope wasnt me. Twice I was on the bad end of AA's dealings. Nothing major they both got worked out. But the 2nd one I thought was pretty shady. Dave at GPR was not answering his phones and I called AA up to see if they had the part I needed. I told them who I was and that I knew they had a "agreement with GPR". THey had the parts. I said ok let me see if I can still try and get Dave before I order. Ended up getting a hold of Dave on his cell. No need to order from AA. But what shows up at my house, the parts I inquired about. Mind you not ordered didnt even talk about shipping. Use of credit card without my authorizing. Not cool.

Also the thing the gets me is how AA/George is threaten by us and our resources. The way he put me down about my rear panels and does anybody remember when he invaded our resource section and posted on our members topics.

On our own resource topics, things that we made, he posted his stuff for sale. Now cmon on how low is that.

How about the 914-6 vin swapping
or the 914-6 oil cooler on ebay that was a 911 cooler.

The list goes on and on.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 28 2009, 04:22 PM

You worked it out right? So why post here? Either you worked it out or you didn't. If you did, you have no call posting about it here. You did the right thing and went to the source and "worked out" the problem. You apparently were satisfied because the problem was "worked out". Is it fair to call him out publically after he made the effort and as you have stated got it "worked out?"

Bashing a person or company on the internet is gang mentality. Count the number of people who agree with you and you will see it is small. Post a lot, and you look like a huge group. Most of you proclaiming you haven't bought anything from AA in years. Ok, so get over it.

George is a member here. He contributes. Couldn't you at least give him the respect of keeping your mouth shut? Should he have done the things you have pointed out? Probably not but we are all learning as we go...

I guarantee you that if I posted some of the problems that I have had with Pelican Parts, the same problems you guys are castigating AA for, I would not get 1/10th of the piling on you guys do here. Remember Pelican's Free Shipping deals? Ever purposely buy more from them to get the free shipping and then get charged two shipping charges because they came from two different warehouses and divided, your order doesn't qualify for free shipping? No way of telling when you are filling your virtual shopping cart. Think that is fair? Good business practice?

My point is that I can respect a man who works out his problem with the man he has the problem with. But this is just not fair. I would defend the Pelican too...

Posted by: 736conver Feb 28 2009, 04:41 PM

Ok. Fair enough on the buying and having problems.

But what about the other situations I mentioned.

On our own resource topics, things that we made, he posted his stuff for sale. Now cmon on how low is that.

How about the 914-6 vin swapping
or the 914-6 oil cooler on ebay that was a 911 cooler.

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 28 2009, 05:57 PM

Brian,
I can't speak to that. I didn't read those threads and I was not aware of it. But this thread is not about that. This thread is about the guy not getting his fuzzy dash cover and thinking it wasn't fair when in fact it was absolutely consistent with the stated conditions of the sale. Look at the shit storm he caused! George did fuch with him a little by humorously declaring himself King and I doubt the guy was bright enough to catch the humor but hey... look at this mess??? George knew it was coming.

If I was a member vendor and I had something for sale and George or anyone jumped in and offered to sell the same or similar thing I would contact an admin and George or whoever and say hey! I would appreciate it if you would sell your own widget in your own thread. I'd bet he would graciously remove his post. Everyone forgets where they are on the forums once in a while. Some guy just told someone on the Classified forums that his 2.0 liter injectors weren't worth $450 because "used is used". That is out of line. I called him on it. If it were my FS ad, I would contact an admin... Approach him with respect though... "Hey asshole" seldom gets the desired result.

Ebay has measures in place if you think someone is committing fraud. I don't think those measures include attempting to destroy the persons business by calling him out on the internet.

The point is there are proper ways of handling things and none of them involve this kind of thead with one exception. Steve Stromberg was clearly trying to commit fraud. Put together enough people who are being cheated and you have to call them out. That is not the case here. George has been at the same address for 31 years. His inventory measures notwithstanding, that is a successful business. Any self proclaimed business expert who says he will not be in business much longer is clearly not what he or she claims to be. I don't care if you are a car guy or a CW. George will be in business until he retires or they carry his cold body out the front door. If he is smart he has an exit strategy already in mind. How is George supposed to defend himself if everytime someone gets a used screw with a slight blemish the guy starts a thread here and then everyone who ever knew anyone who had a problem with George brings it up AGAIN! Never mind that it took his parts picker 15 minutes to find and he only charges a freakin' buck for it. Given proper respect George might have responded to the original poster that the reason it was cancelled is because that was a condition of the sale but how about we have a group buy on fuzzy dash pads and if we can sell 20 of them I will give you the 20% off? Instead the guy goes off like AA is harboring Al Capone's entire gang as employees. Respect and due process goes a long way. Follow the right path and you are likely to get the right result.

I'm just saying, lets give George the same respect we would give other member vendors. I have received parts from people I respect that had studs broken loose that had to be rewelded. I didn't call them out and imply they were a crook. I didn't even mention it. It was easier to just reweld them.

Posted by: 736conver Feb 28 2009, 06:09 PM

He did it to multiple people at the same time. All different topics in the resource section.

It is what it is. It will never change and I'm sure these post will continue. You can go back to the beginning of these 914 sites and its the same old thing.

Sorry if I dragged this post on too long. I still find it unbelievable the things he does in his position.

Posted by: r_towle Feb 28 2009, 06:29 PM

What position?
He is not KING...hes just a guy who runs a small business.

So what position are you thinking that is so big, so important and so amazing that George needs to behave any different from Al Zim (ever talk to him online???) Wayne Dempsey (A 911 business that caters to profit of about 20 different models of cars) Little if any stock, drop ships most of it..

I could go on and on and on about all the business owners online.
None of them is a King, none of them are more than a business owner scraping out a living....Oh, he got a GT40..A, dont believe it...B, so what if he did...C, he dedicates all of his time to a small business and employs people who have families to feed...do you?

Rich

Posted by: ConeDodger Feb 28 2009, 06:30 PM

As I said, I didn't see it or read it but it sounds like he didn't see that forum for what it was intended. Plus, as I always tell my students, try and turn around and face yourself in any situation. What is George's point of view. Did he spend thousands having a perfect replica of the Porsche part made and buy hundreds of them only to have some guy make 30 of the same thing minus the perfection in his garage? Case in point, last I heard, George is having a mold made from an original M471 rocker detailed down to the 914 part number molded in. You have to admit that part is only surpassed in value by an original M471 rocker. Yet along come the guys making flared rockers in their barns. Do these parts compare with George's perfect replica of an M471 rocker? Not a chance. George should promote his own perfect replica in that same member vendor forum right next to the thread by the other guy. The right guy will know the difference. I know I am waiting for George to announce the M471 rockers are ready and I will pay more I'm sure. But I know I am getting the closest thing to original I can and that means something. No one else is doing that.

Let me put it this way. The original post was a guy claiming he had been ripped off because he didn't get his fuzzy dash board cover even though the terms of the sale were clear and his cancellation should have been expected given those terms. We have covered that. If my dog pisses on the dining room floor and I see her doing it I let out a yell that lets her know she is going to die and it will be now. If I step in her pee two hours after the fact, it does me no good to yell. Humans have a longer memory than dogs of course but for gosh sakes! Do you think George can remember every little incident out of the thousand sales he makes a week? This thread should never have happened but since it did we should be fair and stick to the point which was the sale and whether George and AA stuck to their own stated policy. Every other thing George has ever done to everyone should have been discussed with George when it happened. I half expect some guy who George beat up in grade school to pipe in when I hear these theads.

Posted by: ericread Feb 28 2009, 06:44 PM

with Cone Dodger.

BTW; Does anyone else think it is hilarious that this thread initiated about a Fuzzy Dash Cover?

Are you sure this isn't a 1974 Chevy Impala thread? What? Were the fuzzy dice on back-order too!!!

Posted by: DBCooper Feb 28 2009, 07:04 PM

Sorry, can't buy it. Somebody shits in the community well you call them on it. If you don't then you're letting every one who follows you suffer the same crap, and that's not cool. You got screwed by Pelican Rob, call them on it. Your problem is going to be that it's you and maybe a few other folks. With AA it's a LOT of people, and the proof of that is how varied but regular the "AA Sucks" threads are, on every kind of board, not just here. Talk to ten 914 owners and half have had bad experiences with AA.

AA hasn't failed in thirty years. Props. But their bad service has opened the door for and then strengthened competitors ever since. If George had operated his business any way other than "I am King, you are not, so shut up and worship me" then he could have been ten times as successful as he has been. And that, Rob, is the price he's paid for that attitude. The irony is that everyone wishes that they'd improve and be the resource that they have the potential to be. We all WANT them to be good.

Let me repeat, you buy from whoever you like. Super. Other people will buy from whoever they like. Done. You don't like "AA Sucks" threads then either don't read them or tell George to clean up his act. Anything else is unfortunately going to be using a broom to sweep back the tide.

Posted by: johnnie5 Feb 28 2009, 09:09 PM

Respect huh? You don't even have clue who I am, yet you have the the nerve to call me stupid? You cannot even seem to put a simple grasp on what my gripe was truly about. I DID try to resolve the situation with the company, and once again (like other times) was treated poorly as a customer. I absolutely did understand the stipulations of 'the sale'. Sale or no sale, same shit - different day.... weather it be a $60 part or $6000 - not the point. Are you blind, can you read? Do you or do you not see more and more people chiming in out of 'lurk' mode to tell thier not so positive stories? Respect George/AA? Respect is earned, in my book. Either you are related to the self proclaimed King or I need to start getting my stash from the same guy you do...

Posted by: scottb Feb 28 2009, 09:17 PM

got my parts... 20% off... in good order and quickly.

thanks george..

Posted by: r_towle Feb 28 2009, 09:24 PM

For what its worth, I remember that George announced the rules VERY CLEARLY, and they were here printed IN ENGLISH.

If your part was not in stock, no order would happen, period.
If you know how this works in any environment, online or not, you CALL to verify that the part is in stock.
You do this during business hours.
If you are concerned, you call the next day to see that it was shipped.

If you are ok to pay full price retail, then dont bother putting in the extra effort to comply with the stated rules of the one day per year sale.
Its not like he has not done this before...its the same deal.
the sale lasts for one day.
Its only valid if he has it in the building.
How could you possibly think that ANY vendor (name one) that has an accurate record of every item the in building.
NAME ONE VENDOR...sears, Bj's wholesale....name one.
There is no vendor on this earth that knows what is in the building except on one day of the year...inventory day.
Why do you suppose that every business does an inventory once per year...hmmm just to check and see that they have a perfect record of everything in the building...nope.

This was really a simple sale.
the instructions were simple.
The only way to verify it would be to call.
Using only the online system and bitching online is not how it works.

Rich

Posted by: sww914 Feb 28 2009, 09:25 PM

Best thread ever!

Posted by: r_towle Feb 28 2009, 09:29 PM

break time!!!


Attached image(s)

Posted by: SirAndy Feb 28 2009, 09:30 PM

And just as many or more who posted their support for AA.

Are you blind, can you read?
Andy

Posted by: sww914 Feb 28 2009, 09:36 PM

Nah, it's Ribeye, (BBQ'd over oak) Tequila Lime Shrimp, Asparagus, Garlic Mashed Potatoes and Salad tonight!

Posted by: rdauenhauer Feb 28 2009, 10:25 PM

Some peoples children....

I ordered on the sale date, still needed a bunch o' bits for the resto.
Stuff arrives promptly in 5 days.

Hold onto you butts!!..there was a problem.
One items was incorrect (GASP!) instead of a L. part I received the R.
I left an email for Cust. Service and the next day was contacted by
phone. Expained the situation and arranged to return it for the
correct part. No drama.
Later that day I get another call on my mobile ...Its George.
Calling to personally apologize and check to see if Im in a pinch for time and would need expidited shipping (on him).

Hmmm.. customer service

Thanks George

Posted by: mbrown3039 Feb 28 2009, 10:34 PM

When I was in retail, I had over 200,000 SKU's I was responsible for. When the once-a-year inventory rolled around, I was quite proud of the fact that my "variance" (industry term for the difference between what we had and what we were SUPPOSED to have) was measured in the THOUSANDTHS of a percentage point (BTW, a full two points was considered an acceptable variance to allow for "shrink" -- i.e., theft -- miscounts, etc.).

So, yes, you are technically correct -- I never knew EXACTLY what I had on hand at any given moment. But I sure knew a whole lot more than it appears the folks at AA do....and THAT'S what started this whole mess! Mike

Posted by: HCRDAN Feb 28 2009, 10:37 PM

You know, I agree with you, but that is just the thing... He is not KING, but he is the one that used this term in his response on this thread. I perceived it as quite arrogant. It is the problem with electronic communication that we don't get inflection and other attributes, he may have been joking, self deprecating, but it did not come across that way. It came across as arrogant, extremely arrogant. It is that attitude that combine with what apparently is a consistent customer service problem that gets people riled up.

AA is a privately owned company that can do as it wishes in terms of how it runs its business. It is only responsible to its shareholders, whomever they happen to be. I personally don't give a what they do.

At the same time, members of this and other virtual communities have options when they chose to spend their discretionary dollars.

I have no personal ax to grind with AA. My one and only experience however mirrored that of many others. So, as I tell my kids, "where there is smoke, there is fire"

If this was an isolated incident, so be it. But it appears not to be. As I read it, the original post was not so much about getting the 20% off, it was about the order confirmation being received, but not receiving the order. I think the issue is about better and more accurate communication to start with, and better customer "bedside" manners to follow.

Call the email anything you like so long as people receiving the email understand that the parts may or may not be in stock, and if they are not, we wont be calling you to tell you about it, since this appears to be their business model. I'm not taking offense at their business model, just suggesting they set their customers' expectation more accurately.

Nothing here is extremely complex or expensive to implement. It just takes an attitude that demonstrates to customers that you value their business as opposed to expecting their business because you crowned yourself "king" of their realm.

I'm not that much of a sensitive guy myself, but I had hair (that I no longer have) stand on my head when I read the "all 914s are mine and I'm just letting you use them" (or something of that sort) comment along the way in this thread. That type of arrogance just does not win points with me as a customer.

I don't wish AA anything but positive things and I certainly am not predicting their demise any time soon. If they have a corner on the NLA parts market, wonderful for them. But where there are choices, I suspect buyers will excercise those options.

I truly would prefer to support a vendor that invests in these cars, and it appears AA does that. At the same time, the free market and competition are a very positive thing. It tends to improve all vendors.

The whole thing with the GT 40... I saw that post and thought "wow, that was obnoxious!". Now, I don't begrudge him being able to purchase a nice car, nice home, airplane, helo, or yacht. Its the American dream. I think its great that he is able to do so, and I hope his garage is filled with similar rides.

I just think it may have come across as less offensive if he had said something to the effect of "I'm really excited to share with you my latest acquisition, the Ford GT. <add any car performance related stuff as needed>, But above all, I want to thank you for supporting our company and making all this possible." or something like it, rather than what came across as "nananana, I have one of these and you dont!"

Fact is some of the people on this board have that and more, and are much more demure.

To each his own. Spend your money where you wish.

Posted by: HCRDAN Feb 28 2009, 10:54 PM

In my case, it was not a "sale" issue. I think in this day and age, people have a certain expectation when they order stuff on line. I travel on business a whole bunch. When I make a plane reservation on line and receive an email confirmation, i expect a seat on that plane. You can be assured I'd be screaming and hollering if I showed up on the day of the flight to have someone say anything to the contrary.

I buy more than airplane tickets online. I travel about 180+ days a year, so I spend a lot of nights in hotels, miles in airplane seat and rental car seats, and much more. I can assure you that I don't find a need to call to confirm each and every order by phone once I've received a confirmation email.

I think a lot of this has to do with AA's communications. If this is not an order confirmation, it is merely a confirmation of the receipt of an order request, then treat it accordingly and say so in the email you send customers. " You think you ordered stuff, but this email just confirms we received the details of what you think you ordered. To confirm what we really will be shipping to you, please call us."

Set expectations correctly, then exceed them. A good customer service rule.

Notice, I am not speaking of prices here. I am the first to pay a premium for better service. This is not a 20% discount issue.

Posted by: bobhasissues Feb 28 2009, 11:30 PM

So a guy doesn't read the terms of the AA sale, it must be AA's fault not his.
This kicks off the biggest bitchfest on record.

Everyone swinging their dick and proclaiming they could/would do everything differently. Then the personal attacks start, and the we don't need him we have "collective knowledge" bullshit.

It was an inventory clearance sale, ever heard of that?

Not all retailers have the same business model.
For 914 parts Pelican's website is unsurpassed, but they have only the most commonly available parts for our cars, no depth.
George has more parts for 914's than any other single retailer. Good for us. But, like most other internet retailers, his website does not provide that Amazon.com kind of feedback that Pelican's does.

AA does a really good job of providing parts and information about our cars. Like anywhere else, sometimes things go wrong with orders. Talk to them and they will straighten it out. It is not the massive clusterf**k that many of you are claiming.

I use all the vendors, George is the only owner that regularly answers the phone and gets personally involved in customer calls. As the kids would say, he represents, I like that.

Hate something else.

Posted by: MZM Mar 1 2009, 12:04 AM

You moaners have a lot of time on your hands! I like the catalog for reference, AA sent my one order as well as any other small company selling unusal, specialized, hard to find old car parts. You would all be farther ahead working on your teeners instead of gripping about the small stuff. Find something fun to do.

Michael McBride

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 12:46 AM

Wow... No. Apparently I don't have a simple grasp on what your gripe is truly about. It has been demonstrated to you over and over by people who not only can read but actually did read the conditions of the sale. No product in stock - order cancelled.

Weather is something you check before you go out for a picnic, so I am going to assume you actually meant whether the part is $60 or $6000 right? I see lots of people chiming in that they don't trust AA or George. You are correct. I see more people saying they had and have no problem with AA and George.

As for your respect is earned comment, George has our respect - as a member of this forum he has the respect afforded by the rules of the forum. George was baiting you and the other people who love to trash him with the King comment. Read it over and over until you get it. It is in there. Subtle, but it should be within your grasp. He is saying in effect - yes, yes, yes, I am an asshole - but what he means is I know what is next. 17 pages of George is an asshole. You and your cohort took the bait and ran. George doesn't think he is king.

I am not related to George. George and I have spoken only once and that was probably five years ago. I don't do drugs and never have. A condition of my employment and that of everyone who works in my business is that we can be approached at any time and handed a sterile cup to urinate in.

If you want to come after me, better get a dictionary. Your Public Schools have failed you.

The short answer, if you are too angry to read this and it sounds like you kind of are, is that on post 10 of the thread announcing the sale George clarified when asked, that if the item was not in stock - the order would be cancelled. That was a condition of the sale. If you don't like the rules don't step on the playground. No fuzzy dash pads in stock - order cancelled. Game over. No bitching. Here we are at what? Page 8? Only 9 more pages of the same people calling George names to go!

Posted by: Racer Chris Mar 1 2009, 02:15 AM

Yes, the weight of expectation has created all the animosity within this thread.
From my perspective, it is all about the self righteous faulting George for his self-righteousness.

I didn't order anything at AA during the sale but one of my customers did. (actually at least two of my customers took advantage of the sale) I received $2k worth of parts on his behalf and there was a problem with one item.
I emailed George and it was taken care of promptly. Thank you George!

Posted by: dw914er Mar 1 2009, 03:46 AM

I think the issue was he ordered something online, got a confirmation. then later he got a record saying it wasnt in stock, and he could reorder the part at full price... I imagine he thought it was kinda shady and wasnt resolved right... but whatever



that pizza looks good, and so does Steve's meat description... which in my tipsy state sounds fantastic


and wow... look at this thread go

Posted by: DBCooper Mar 1 2009, 07:15 AM

Ah Rob, that wasn't nice. Does that mean your private school education is better than mine? So I shouldn't correct your grammar occasionally because your private school education means it's perfect? That's silly. Calm down. We're all friends here, or should be.




That's correct, to a point, but you're omitting the very important fact of the order confirmation. An order confirmation is just what it says, a confirmation that your order has been accepted. At that price. If there was anything that would need to change, for example if AA didn't intend to ship, or ship at that price, whatever, then the solution is simple enough, AA would not have confirmed the order. But once AA accepted the order, as witnessed by their confirmation, there was an agreement in place, and that's a contract. I'm not making this up, as anyone with a business law class or any experience can confirm.

The entire reason for issuing order confirmations is to precisely avoid this kind of problem. Everyone has a chance to change their mind, not buy, not ship, change the price, whatever, UNTIL the contract is in place. Then once it's in place it needs to be honored. The concept is very simple, you do what you say you're going to do. If George wouldn't (or couldn't) honor that price then he should not have confirmed the order.

But the problem isn't about a five dollar difference, or fuzzy pads, it's about the problems of dealing with a badly run business. This isn't much different than my experience of ten years ago, when I was promised every week for four weeks in a row that my part was on the shelf and would be shipped the very next day. No big deal for George, he eventually shipped the product and was paid for it, but I was left hanging, car in the air, literally, because I believed what he said. Never again.

I'd also point out that EVERY vendor is discussed in these forums. We all know that Eric is super to deal with, because it's been discussed. Pelican may make mistakes, but I've never heard anyone say they didn't make good. Jake's customer service is second to none, and so on. It's good to know these things. It means that vendors who offer good service benefit from their good reputations. Likewise bad vendors are discussed, and why on earth would anyone expect that wouldn't happen, or is unfair? Discussion is legitimate.

To illustrate. Would you mention a bad experience with someone, say Stomberg, to your fellow 914 friends? Or are you suggesting you'd let them walk right into it without giving them a heads-up? If you would let them do that then you aren't a friend, because that's what friends are for. So maybe your experience with Stromberg was an isolated instance, meaning all your friends would chime in, saying their experiences with that vendor were all good. Then you'd have a true perspective. Or you could find out that everyone else had had similar bad experiences. But you'd never know unless it was discussed. And in fact Stromberg was found out exactly because his dealings were discussed. And that's the entire reason that people frequent these forums, to discuss and learn. Some people say bad things about vendors, other people say good things, then you go decide what you want to do. So what's the problem? But if you're advocating that we say only good things about vendors then you're being unrealistic and doing a disservice to everyone here.

And to hopefully put a cap on this whole thing could I suggest something that we could all agree on? An open suggestion to George: Dude, don't blame your employees, they're trying hard. But you, you could do better. And probably make more money while you're at it. Please.

Works for me, does that work for you? And even George should be in favor of making more money. So can we all be friends now?

Posted by: johnnie5 Mar 1 2009, 10:34 AM

So I wasn't speaking Greek after all! There are people who understand the point I was trying to make. I have dealt with many vendors here as well, and have had mostly all positive experiences. There have been several times in this forum where I have expressed positive feedback and recommended referral to people like Mark DiBernardi, Eric Shea, Chris Foley, Mark Engman, and Mike Leniak (just to name a few). As previously stated, this is a dicussion forum. Actively participate or just read and 'lurk'. Take from it (or give) whatever you want. Most of us here are capabe of cognizant thought process and are fairly objective. If it were an isolated experience for ME, I would have just bit my lip and let it go. It was not a single experience that compelled me to open up and be heard. It seems that there are far too many other similar experiences to just let it go by the wayside. What is the percent of negative feedback that still makes one not raise an eyebrow? Each and every one of you will do just what suits you regardless, I was just simply bringing some not so great business practice to the attention for those of you who do care to know and/or can relate.

As far as my spelling and grammer go... I am a poor speller, at best. I never claimed not to be. True colors do have a funny way of showing themselves...

Posted by: johnnie5 Mar 1 2009, 10:49 AM

Oh, and BTW... I just got my SHIPPING ConfIrmation from the fuzzy dash company I ended up buying from (at less than 1/2 the price). This is what a company who has it together 2nd email reply SHOULD look like. TAKE SOME NOTES GEORGE...




Your order has been shipped to you. PLEASE RETAIN THIS EMAIL‏
From: info@brandnewauto.com
Sent: Sun 3/01/09 7:15 AM
To: ************


1 800 964 3229

Info@BrandNewAuto.com


Thank you john for your recent order from BRAND NEW US LTD


Your item has been shipped to you and should be arriving shortly.
(Packages shipped by USPS do not offer online tracking.)

Invoice # ********
"DASHMAT Dash Cover 1970-76 PORSCHE 914"

Shipped FEDEX.GND on 02/27/09 Tracking # ***************

To track a FedEx package go to www.fedex.com
To track a UPS package go to www.ups.com
USPS packages do not have online tracking.

Your order is now on the way to you direct from Global Accessories.
LeBra products ship from Ohio, DashMat and Wolf covers ship from Texas.


Thank you for your order from us. We appreciate your patience with the order processing time from LeBra, Wolf and DashMat. Most orders are shipping within our advertised time but some orders have taken considerably longer and we do apologize for that.


Please check your order immediately upon receiving it. If the package has
been damaged in shipping please report it to the carrier within 48 hours.

PRODUCT RETURNS:
If you have received a defective product or the wrong product PLEASE
reply to this email to and an accurate description of the problem.
We will then email you the instructions for the return / exchange.
ALL defective / incorrect items must be reported to us within 30 days of
receipt of package.
ANY items returned without following our instructions WILL NOT be credited
or replaced. It is crucial that you follow our instructions.


1 800-964-3229 or 1 302-351-4419


info@brandnewauto.com

We greatly appreicate all positive feedback that we receive. Please be kind when you rate our shipping time, we know that it takes too long and we are trying to speed it up. Hopefully the price and the product will make up for the slow processing times from Global Accessories.

If for some reason you feel that we do not deserve a positive feedback it would be appreciated if you contacted us first to discuss it and see what we can do for you.


Thank you for your business!

Rob Farrell

BRAND NEW US LTD
info@brandnewauto.com
TOLL FREE 800 964 3229
DIRECT 1 302 351 4419
FAX 1 888-752-9145

www.BrandNewAuto.com
www.BrandNewCarParts.com




Copyright c 2005-2008 BRAND NEW US LTD. All Rights Reserved.

Posted by: mbrown3039 Mar 1 2009, 11:30 AM

PRECISELY!!! I also took advantage of the AA 20% sale, and I even used my lowly public-school education to read all the terms and conditions. When I got my emailed order confirmation, I assumed that meant that everything I ordered was in stock (based on my web-ordering experience with many, many other companies in several industries). When I received no follow up email with tracking info, I began to wonder if there was a problem. But, as I was at a trade show most of the week, all of my order arrived before I had time to call and check on it.

Based on this thread -- and a couple of off-line conversations I've had with people who've been buying from AA for years -- I now know that, when ordering from AA, I need to confirm parts availability in advance, be prepared to call my CC company should there be any issues, and never, ever order anything that's time-sensitive.

THAT'S VALUABLE INFORMATION!!! Just as valuable as how to re-key my locks, what the targa top is coated with, and where to buy the master cylinder brake line bushings -- all things I've come to this site for as well. Mike

Posted by: r_towle Mar 1 2009, 12:01 PM

You keep mentioning this opinion that you hold as if it was a fact.
Its not.
Its your opinion of law, but it would not be the same as a judge.
As I mentioned before, an order confirmation is not a contract.
You neglected to read or respond to that previous post.
If you would like to quote case law, please do.
Re-stating your opinion as fact does not make it a fact.
You may view it (in your personal opinion) as an implied contract, but it is not in fact a contract.
If and when the CC is charged, there is an implied contract.
Even that implied contract can easily be reversed, legally, to negate the contract
A vendor has the right to decide.
From what I read, that part of the transaction never happened.
A CC was never charged, no money changed hands.

This would be viewed as a communication problem, it would never make it to court, nor would a judge agree to hear the case.

All by itself, an order confirmation is a step and a portion of an implied contract.
It is not a contract, it would never hold up as a contract, and it is not a valid point to keep trying to make an issue. It is not an issue.

NEXT

Everyone keeps getting all uptight about George saying that he was/is the King of 914's....
GET A SENSE OF HUMOR.
It was a joke, its a very sarcastic response.
I know George is just reading this and laughing...
For people to get all uptight about what he said is really funny.

Believe it or not, some people dont care what you think about them.
That is the humor about this. Might be hard to understand for some.
The fact that you (collectively) are getting all upset about George claiming King status is funny.

DB, you will never do business with George again...maybe there are two or more people here that agree with you, for whatever reason.
The majority DO NOT agree with you.
I see a few angry people/customers. feel free to shop somewhere else.
Feel free to provide your story in an effort to "expose" AA.

If you think that by telling your one bad experience with AA over and over and over and over again will drive him out of business, you might want to focus on better thoughts and other things in life.

Rich

Posted by: kconway Mar 1 2009, 12:06 PM

What I find interesting is you've said you dealt with AA before and got the short end of the BS stick but for some reason you went back again for a dash cover. You've also qouted AA's prices as being better on at least one item then the other vendors you listed but yet you still say they mark up 150%. Maybe so, but I haven't found that to be true.

I think everyone gets your point, you won't deal with AA again. AA's rep has been dragged through the mud before and I don't doubt that some of it is valid.

It's unfortunate you had to have this experience but not sure what your motivation is other then stiring the shit pot . We've all read this stuff before, unfortunately for you you must not have seen any past George bashing threads. Its George's buisness and I suppose he'll operate the way he wants to. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy from him, just go somewhere else if you don't like how he does things. He's well aware some are unhappy with the customer service customers have received from AA. Fortunately I have been pretty satisfied so far, but this isn't about me.

The up side is you found what you were shopping for at a price that you like elsewhere. Install it and move on to driving that car.

Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 1 2009, 12:38 PM

Acceptance is a critical and necessary element of a contract and only the wording of the confirmation would tell us whether it constituted acceptance. I suspect the confirmation email was confirming that the order had been received but not necessarily accepted. If that is the case, then no contract has been made and this whole thread has been based on inadequate reading comprehension.

I've never ordered from George, because of the many bash threads, and I've been known to criticize his sloppy business practices based on evidence and observations presented here. However, in this case, he was very clear as to the terms of the sale. Without the exact wording of the confirmation message we're just flapping our gums......not that that's a bad thing.

Posted by: Rob Ways Mar 1 2009, 12:45 PM

10 pages!

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 12:49 PM

When I was just out of high school and struggling to pay for school at the University of Minnesota I worked for a Porsche VW shop in Hopkins MN. The owner had two tractor-trailers sitting behind the shop and had constructed stairs going up to the rollup doors and installed lights. Inside was the collective gatherings of his years in the Porsche VW business. His inventory control was basically "Oh ya! I saw one of those the other day, let me go out and get it for you". There were no SKU, inventory was basically ordering stuff to fill empty shelves. My point in telling you all this is that there are lots of businesses in the world that run exactly this way. Those businesses generally have a personality while other businesses have a corporate image.

AA, HPH, Restoration Design, and lots of others I am forgetting right now at least partially run this way. Bins full of parts removed from salvaged cars, or in the case of Restoration Designs perhaps "lets see, someone ordered one of those and I made 10, I have sold a few but I should have some". The point being that as far as inventory control - their business would drive a business expert crazy. We have already had some of these experts chime in here and tell us how George would be out of business in very short order. Clearly, they didn't consider the culture. George and these other businesses make a very good living for their owner. They just don't fit the best business practice models that were pumped out in the 1980's by the plethora of MBA grads and schools.

AA is at least partially run with modern practices. They have a website. It is a frustrating outdated website but none the less it is online. The have a 1-800 number. They send out order confirmations. So they are at least flirting with modern business practices. But truth be told, if you go to AA you will find bins full of parts from salvaged cars, bins full of reproduction parts, and finally genuine Porsche parts. Getting modern was probably not a priority when new tech arrived because feeding the family was more important. Yes, I am sure it was harder work for George to run out to the bins to see if he had something rather than just check his inventory control system but my guess is George isn't afraid of a little hard work. This is where the problem comes from. Why spend many thousands so I don't have to run out to the bins?

What I see is a confluence of 1980's business practices with new millenium customer expectations. I am sure that when AA sends out an order confirmation to AA it means "we are letting you know you ordered this" while to some of you it means "we have a deal". There are plenty of businesses that run this way. I have even followed up on something I expected from Pelican only to find out they didn't have it and were not expecting it soon. My point is that many of you are ordering from AA and having expectations that your experience will be an exact mirror of Amazon.Com... It is kind of like the difference in meaning between what a man says and what a woman says when they say exactly the same words.

George will never know how many of the used little black plugs that go in the rear targa upholstery to cover the screws. Simply put, he has thousands of parts that are used and he cannot count them all. He did us all a favor by having a 20% off sale and his thanks is to have people bad mouth him because their order was cancelled - item not in stock.

Please, don't apply new mellinium expectations to mom/pop businesses. They cannot survive if you do and the loss to all of us in this community would be devastating. George is a contributing member here. He jumps in from time to time and answers questions and when he does I know he speaks with authority and expertise. I once had someone who totally hates AA tell me the first thing I should get was a copy of 700 Tech Tips.

I am sure that George is probably wondering why I am so passionately defending him and AA. Particularly since George and I have only had one conversation and it has been years since I ordered from AA... Consider this, what is next? Right now, Eric has the group buy brake pads thing going on. Fully 50% of the orders are sitting waiting for the other set of pads that is backordered. If I don't stand up and draw a line here - what happens when some newby lurker starts going after Eric? Who is next after him? The point is, bashing vendors - particularly member vendors should be off limits.

I hope that you guys are not going to continue to try and drag George screaming and kicking into modern business practice. I also hope George doesn't try too hard to accomodate that. Believe me, if AA had a SKU on every part, few of us could afford to buy from them.

If you don't like George leave him alone. If you had a bad experience buy somewhere else, you learned your lesson. But remember, when you order Catcher in the Rye from Amazon and instead you get Catchy uses for Rye in the Kitchen - you are unlikely to get a call from the owner of Amazon telling you he will make it right. The owner of Amazon is unlikely to drop by your book club and suggest great books you could read. George is quirky but at least some of us need him. Leave him alone.

Posted by: Rob Ways Mar 1 2009, 12:59 PM

Geez Rob. You can get arthritis typing like that!

Amen. Lets all just consider AA our backwoods Georgia based Graceland!

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 01:01 PM

Hi Rob, I have DragonEZ... It's just like standing in front of grad students and lecturing. Wait... scratch that. At least the computer is listening and getting it!

Posted by: johnnie5 Mar 1 2009, 01:38 PM

I am afforded the right of my opinion and to express it by Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Expression in this country (and many others). This IS an open discussion forum, is it not? No two people will ever agree, without doubt. Expressing my opinions here (or anywhere else) does not constitute 'bashing' in and of itself. If it happens to be that more than one person agreee with the said subject matter, then WE are still FREE to discuss our opinions for, and against such said topic. Those of you that still are unable understand the point I was originally trying to make, and vehemently disagree - that too is your right to express. It is a discussion forum. When I said "pretentious assholes who are positive thier shit doesn't stink", that is my opinion - and I am certainly entitled to it. Just as Mr. Hussey is entitled to the opinion that he is the King of all 914's (joking or not, even though it did not sound like he was joking to me). Is he a wealth of information on the 914 Porsche? It certainly seem so. Too bad for me I guess that I am too stubborn to get over the bad taste in my mouth about how I am treated as a customer by him. Too bad for him that he does not seem to take responsibility (or give a shit) for customer satisfaction - IN MY OPINION.

EDIT: I think bashing is more of an attack on a personal level, rather than pointing out poor business practices. Like criticizing someone on spelling and grammer, for instance.

Posted by: 736conver Mar 1 2009, 01:44 PM

I dont think youll have to worry about if someone has a problem with a vendor on this board.

It will happened sooner or later but I'll guarantee they wont respond I am king of 914's, or that they will sell 914-6 vins with no car, or that they will infiltrate our resource section and take away our members business.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=87427&hl=
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83314&hl=

I know there was a thread about AA invading our resource section but I cant find it.

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 02:13 PM

You are not exactly right... Close but not quite. This site is international and so it is a bit hegemonic to imply that those rights extend to everywhere the site can be viewed. Being you are American it can be easily understood why you have this opinion. An example of this is the person who thinks it is possible to 'vote' for a king. Only an American would have that cultural perspective. That is not the way kings are chosen. It is more accurate to say that free speech rights extend to the actual owner of this site who graciously allows you to speak in spite of the fact that he apparently disagrees with you. As soon as he wanted he could shut off your rights and you would be speechless - so to speak. He can shut down this thread with a key stroke and believe me, your rights would not have been violated. He owns the site.

So, while I do agree you are intitled to your opinion - I wonder what it is. Can you tell us what your point is? It appears that you ordered something, got a confirmation that you ordered it, then discovered that your order was cancelled because the item was not in stock. Everything appears to have happened exactly as it was layed out in the post announcing the sale. And yet, having had it demonstrated over and over to you through 10 pages that AA did nothing wrong you still seem to think you have been violated. I find your reactions out of proportion to what has actually occured. Help me understand why AA has done something wrong. Please do it without restating the things you have already been proven wrong on. For instance an order confirmation is a confirmation that you ordered something. It is an opportunity for you to jump up and say "hey! I didn't order anything" or "hey! that is not what I ordered!" The actual contract saying you ordered this and we are sending it takes place when your check is accepted or your credit card is charged. What happened to you was completely within the parameters of what George said would happen when he announced the sale. So once again, without restating the things you have already said and been proven wrong about - what is your problem? I can almost hear the person at AA telling you that they were sorry but as per the terms of the sale your order was cancelled. Your reaction was, as evidenced by your reaction here so out of proportion to the reality of the situation the call taker probably offered to order the fuzzy dash cover at full price because clearly - you were going to die without your fuzzy dash cover. The call taker thought of this as good customer service because you so badly needed that fuzzy dash cover - you took it as an insult...

So help us... What did George and AA do to you that was so bad?

Posted by: dw914er Mar 1 2009, 02:21 PM

I think the problem was he ordered something online for the 20% discount. He got an confirmation (automated though). Then he doesnt get the part, and can buy the product at full price.. Seems kinda shady..

I guess the resolution is what has made him mad. Anyways

Yes, The rules I guess where that it has to be in stock.. Though companies, like AA with a outdated website, sometimes has inventory errors. I've order parts that said out of stock/backordered, and then it ended up being in stock, and vise versa. He took a risk, and it ended up voiding the rules.


I guess the issue here is that the end of the issue is the problem... But whatever. I have had no issues with AA before, or Pelican either.

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 02:36 PM

Brian,

You are tenacious. I will give you that. Trust me - George was kidding. I have a guy running a mattress store down the street claiming to be the King of Matresses... What should we do? He doesn't really think he is king... George was being sarcastic... You seem like you should be able to get that... I think that you want to hang on to that as some evidence that George is a kook or something. It was nothing more than a sarcastic response to what he knew was coming.

I am not going to take the bait and get into a debate about the member vendor section or VIN switching. That isn't what this is about. You have restated that several times. We get it. You think George is a bad person. These things are not a part of this discussion.

Bottom line is this - You and AA/George are in direct competition as it regards one product. In academia we call this bias. Even if you were as patient and deliberative as a judge, you should not involve yourself in a derogatory attack on George because I for one, and I am sure others will think it is really about the Porsche panels that go along the back of the car... Because you and George make the same product - you have limited credibility... To be fair, neither does George if we were talking about you here.
If I own 1000 shares of Phizer how much credibility do I have in a discussion of the differences between Viagra and one of the other ED drugs? None. I have a direct financial advantage that results from my passionate defense of Viagra...

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 1 2009, 02:55 PM

I don't get the "Shady" reference ...

Here's what went down (Obviously, YOU is not you Ben ):

- YOU knew that AA had a one day sale, 20% off everything in stock.
- YOU knew any items not in stock would not be part of the sale.
- YOU knew any orders for items not in stock would be ignored.
- YOU knew AA's website sucks, but you went there anyways instead of calling.

- You go to their website and find a fuzzy thingy that would be a good buy at 20% off.
- You order it online.
- You get a order confirmation in your Email (Because you just ordered something, duh!)
- You don't hear anything back from them, so you call.
- You're told the item is out of stock and thus your order was cancelled (As stated in the terms of the sales event).
- They tell you they can get the part for you, but it'll be full price.
- You're pissed because you didn't get your fuzzy thing and start a thread here complaining about "poor" customer service.


I just don't get it. AA did everything they said they would. You missed out on your part, they said they could get it to you if you really wanted it (full price as it wasn't part of the sale).

That's good customer service right there. I'm still not sure what you're complaining about.
Andy

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 02:55 PM

I get that Ben, but as has been stated over and over - the rules were clear - he ordered something - he got a confirmation that he ordered something - his item was not in stock - his order was cancelled - he had an almost violent reaction out of proportion to the reality of the situation.

Let me put it this way - If my child cannot live without a continuous supply of oxygen and I am told the oxygen tanks are on backorder. Yes - days of passionate anquish are appropriate to the situation.

I cannot get my fuzzy dash cover - days of discourse and refusal to see that his expectations are wrong. Reaction out of proportion to the situation.

I don't want him to restate the obvious as you just did... I want him to tell us what is wrong. The obvious has been covered and refuted.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 1 2009, 02:59 PM

Cialis is way better! No headaches and it lasts up to 72 hours!
Andy

Posted by: dw914er Mar 1 2009, 03:05 PM

ohh... I agree... it was blown way out of proportion..

I see the possible side that hey... I have to now buy this at full price... but other than that.. the rules were there..

Posted by: 736conver Mar 1 2009, 03:08 PM

See thats the thing. I dont care that AA has the same product as I do. Obviously AA does as he called it a waste of my time. I have even talk to the guy thats making the panels for AA. We talked about how we both constructed ours.
I dont sell anywhere near the quanity AA sells. But if I can sell a couple here or there and keep my hobby alive then great. I dont consider him competition or the other guys that make these.
If someone tells you to stop doing what your doing as its a waste of your time wouldnt that get you riled up. Especially someone with his business practices.

Posted by: charliew Mar 1 2009, 03:13 PM

Wow what a discussion. I bet George hasn't bothered to read 75% of it. Does he care? Maybe a little but what probably does matter to him is that he probably has tried hard to make a good living at what he likes and he thinks he knows a lot more than most about porsche. He also knows he has helped a lot of people and has given them a good product for the dollar they spent.
He also knows he can't please everyone every time and it's usually the little things that cause the most pain. Or maybe he has found out that the alligators bite way worse than the nats.
He may also think he needs to do it all himself that no one else can do some parts of his business.
I've talked to George a few times and he was always courteous and helpful.
NCR had inventory control practices in place for retailers in the 60's. No they were not computers but they worked. They also cost a lot to manage. Pcs changed everything. IBM had a really nice word processor that looked like a big pc but it would only do word processing. Along comes the pc that would do it all. George could install a good computer system but he probably thinks the irs could cause him a lot of grief if he used it. He would also have to trust some salesman that sells computer hardware and software and may not know any he trusts. What he may not realize is that he could be playing with his cars and only need about two hours each evening to check on the co. inventory, sales, expenses, hours worked and so forth. So he spends 1/2 or all of what the gt cost. Two years later he can buy another one when business booms and probably cut his work hours in half. Yeah, yeah it will need updates so what, we only have so much time here to work, make some money and spend it playing. All he needs to do is find a comparable business model and see what system works best for the buck and do it. With the economy the way it is this might be a good time to listen to some sales reps that might be struggling and check out their happy customers.
I really don't know if I will ever have another porsche but I know we can use George and his company to help us and the ones to come on their toys.

Posted by: jaxdream Mar 1 2009, 03:15 PM

Hell , I'd like to have tires made out of George - he takes a licken and keeps on ticken --hat's off to him!!!

jaxdream

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 03:25 PM

Ben, we all view the world through a pair of glasses that are shaped by our experiences, what we study and learn, the culture we grow up in... When two people look at a situation they often see it completely differently.

When Mr. 5 called AA and was told his order was cancelled his reaction was probably very similar to what he has given us here. When the AA call guy said I can order one for you at the regular price he probably saw it as good customer service. After all, this fuzzy dash cover was obviously of very great importance to this customer. Mr. 5 though, apparently thought that offering to order the out of stock fuzzy dash cover was as bad an insult as calling his mother a ho.

You see they both have their point of view and to each of them they are right.

My point is that most reasonable people can see that George and AA were in the right. Mr. 5 seems like the kind of guy who orders a burger to go with no pickles and when he discovers the pickles when he gets home he drives the 5 miles back and castigates the poor burger joint manager. It isn't enough that the burger joint makes him a new burger - he wants reimbursement for the gas and time it took him to come back. Mr. 5 - Just take the damned pickles off and eat it!

As it is now, people will be refering to fuzzy dash covers as analogy for cannot-be-satisfied-no-matter-what here forever...

Posted by: Lavanaut Mar 1 2009, 03:39 PM

Brian, I'm genuinely curious - do you actually agree with the argument made by the starter of this topic? Or is this merely a convenient opportunity for you to remind people how much you dislike George and his business practices?

johnnie5, seriously, please clear something up for me here. It seems your entire argument is based on the fact that you received an order confirmation from AA. How do you come to conclusion that an email confirming that AA's website received your order (and please realize, that's what that email is) somehow supersedes the written rules of the sale?

You've invented this, and you're bashing George and AA as a result. You're attacking his character, based on your misunderstanding or unwillingness to accept the terms of the sale. That's why we (scratch that, "I") am so incredulous as I read your posts.

I think that everyone here, save one person as far as I can tell, is simply at a loss for how you think that makes sense. Rich challenged the notion that the confirmation email is, by law, a contract. I for one am still waiting for your response.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 03:42 PM

Evil George;

Here's a thought. Why don't you offer a 20% off sale for only those customers that have shown the ability to read, and that don't have expectations outside your offer?

The upside is that you would reinforce the perception of AA that your paying customers already have. The downside is that the "world" site would have far fewer posts.

Please feel free to resume overseeing your kingdom with your crown of devil horns

Eric

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 03:47 PM

Brian,
My point is that even though you say you aren't biased the facts take away your credibility. You and AA are in direct competition. Even though you say you "don't care" you obviously do. We cannot take you seriously. Don't get me wrong, I want to take you seriously. You clearly have some cogent points just not for this discussion.

Posted by: 736conver Mar 1 2009, 03:49 PM

I am big on customer service. I am a retail manager and I always get blown away by other companies lack of customer service. It is really a simple thing that companies can do, just takes effort. I work in a retail store and I try to instill this in all my workers.
I get this passionate over most customer service issues, whether it been mine or not. It just ballooned to other things here.

Posted by: dw914er Mar 1 2009, 03:56 PM

Rob, I agree.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 03:58 PM

Off-Topic Remark;

Regarding the "Porsche" rear-reflectors George seems to hate (but sells) and Brian makes/sells; I like them.

As a daily driver, I really like the fact that the rear reflector provides a huge improvement in rear visibility. Cars approaching from the rear have a vastly improved amount of visibility of my car, and for that reason alone, I really, really like the rear reflector.

Is it a stock item? No. But neither are many of the changes "World" members make to their 914s.

So if you really hate the rear reflector look, feel free to look the other way as I drive by...

Eric Read

Now, we return you to your regularly scheduled rant...

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 1 2009, 04:00 PM

Well, then you better NOT buy the aftermarket ones, as they don't "reflect" ...

The first round was cut from stock 911 reflectors and those actually do reflect nicely at night.

The aftermarket panels with the black border around them don't reflect at all ...
Andy

Posted by: 736conver Mar 1 2009, 04:06 PM

AA does reflect, at least thats what Chad told me, mine also does reflects. They are not made like the old style ones.

Posted by: Stevel8 Mar 1 2009, 04:17 PM

I like to judge favorably. I would like to say that Johnny didn't get ripped off, but the reality is Johnny was taken advantage of. I would like to give the benefit of doubt to AA and say this was not done on purpose, but was the result of a business not running 100%. The purpose of these forums is to alert customers to bogus business transactions. What I have learned from this thread is if I want to order a product from AA, I can not trust their e-mail confirmation. Instead, I need to be proactive and call them to see the status of my order. Even better, I wouldn't place the order over the internet, I would do it by phone. To reiterate what other people have posted, this had nothing to do with a 20% sale, it had to do with charging a customer for a product that the customer would never receive. By itself, that sounds a bit shady, wouldn't you agree?

Regarding the "I am King" comment, I happen to love humility and hate arrogance. To each his own. However, you are not going to win friends and influence people by bragging you are king. I am afraid that George opened himself for criticism by putting that out there. Conedodger, if you are going to stick up for George and say he was just kidding, you should change your name to buttlicker.

Lastly, I believe you all have way too much time on your hands. Go and enjoy this beautiful Sunday.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 04:18 PM

Mine have a high degree of reflectivity. And the one I purchased from AA has no black border.

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 1 2009, 04:26 PM

Bzzzzzz

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 04:28 PM

Wow... Johnnie5, even your friends are reasonable people. So tell us - what is your complaint? Is it true that AA charged your CC? I doubt that or you would have said that before now?

Oh and Steve - the purpose of these forums is not to alert each other about bad business transactions.

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 04:29 PM

There you go Johnnie5! See what I meant about your free speech premise?

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 04:32 PM

Mr. Dodger;

Does this mean you're not offering to lick butts? Damn! I thought you were branching out into new areas of business!

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 04:34 PM

No Eric, I am going to stick to what I do for a living which has nothing to do with butts.

Posted by: RJMII Mar 1 2009, 04:37 PM

Rob, I suppose that means you're not a doctor of proctology, nor are you a neuro-surgeon for disappointed AA customers...

Posted by: johnnie5 Mar 1 2009, 04:38 PM

First off, I had no idea stevel8 had any inclination of posting here. 2nd - Cone Dodger - seeing how you seem to have such a problem with me, I will be happy to meet with you toe's pointing each other (as you put it) and further discuss it. I will make time.

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 04:45 PM

Oh my... a threat? That will get you banned too!

Let's stay on topic. What exactly is the reason you have reacted so intensely to what transpired during the 20% off sale? I have no problem with you. It is your actions that concern me.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 04:45 PM

Please.... What are we, a bunch of adolescent children going to duke it out on the playground? Grow up!

We all express our opinions/discussions/flames in an environment that is complimentary to all of our self interests... Our 914s.

If you can't play well with each other, we're going to have to send you to the Principal's office and call your Mom and Dad. And since my Mom nad Dad have passed away, I really don't want to bother them with this...

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 04:46 PM

Nope... It's PhD not MD.

Posted by: carr914 Mar 1 2009, 05:38 PM

Rob, no offense intended, but what is your motivation to make this thread bigger than the last few AA threads. Almost half the posts are yours and you seem to want to debate everyone. And this is from someone who has ordered from George once and last talked to him 5 years ago.

If you quit posting, this thread would die very quickly.

T.C.

Posted by: al weidman Mar 1 2009, 06:07 PM

It's a cold rainy day here in N. Calif. As I was scrolling through the posts, I said "Wow, that has allot of hits" After reading the whole 11 pages, I can really only say that after many years in business, a little humility goes along way. Secondly, I want to say that, you are not who you think you are, but, who others think you are. Think about it. Al.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 07:07 PM

Since we are being philosophical, here's a few to think about:

"You are what you think, not what you think you are."

"Man may think that he is great, but so long as he continues to think small thoughts, he will continue to be small."

"Man becomes great when he thinks great thought."

So if I proclaim myself King, am I King because that's what I think; Am I great because I am not thinking small, or; Am I great because I think great thoughts?

Hmmmmmmm

I think we may need to rethink this thread. There is a possibility that George is great as a sole result of his proclamation of being king.

Sheesh, some of you must be really embarrassed about now...

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 1 2009, 07:15 PM

I have no motivation whatsoever T.C., I just simply want him to tell us what his reason is when so many have shown him so clearly that George and AA were not in the wrong why he still thinks he has been wronged. Besides, I have only 31 out of 223 posts so not really half...

George may have done everything else in his life wrong, I wouldn't know - but this sale seems to have gone down exactly as he said. He shouldn't have mud thrown at him for that...

I have left him to come up with an answer which doesn't seem to be coming so I expect the thread will die on its own waiting for his answer.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 07:20 PM

It should be obvious to all....


THIS THREAD WILL NEVER DIE!!!!!

Posted by: DBCooper Mar 1 2009, 07:46 PM

Wow, a whole lot of arrogance in the air around here. For good order's sake, quote:

A contract is formed when competent parties -- usually adults of sound mind or business entities -- mutually agree to provide each other some benefit (called consideration), such as a promise to pay money in exchange for a promise to deliver specified goods or services or the actual delivery of those goods and services. A contract normally requires one party to make a reasonably detailed offer to do something -- including, typically, the price, time for performance and other essential terms and conditions -- and the other to accept without significant change. Unquote.

In this situation his order was the offer, and the order confirmation was AA's acceptance of that offer. That equals contract, by any definition I'm aware of. And at that point the "sale" conditions were irrelevant. The reason is that anyone can make any offer at any time in any situation, in accordance or not with anything in any context. If that offer is accepted the parties have a contract, again regardless of context, sale conditions or not. Once in place that contract contains the entire terms of the agreement, and you can't just add them later saying "he should have known!". You see I actually did take that contract law class. Right before deciding I didn't really want to be a lawyer.

It could be that the wording of the confirmation contained exclusions, I don't know, but order confirmations are usually perfunctory, referring at most to the vendor's standard conditions of sale. Again, and I repeat, this is so petty it would never go to court, so it's really only evidence of extremely sloppy business practices. George creates problems for himself that are totally unnecessary.

Posted by: r_towle Mar 1 2009, 07:52 PM

Its true that alot of people have some pretty divisive points of view of George and how he conducts business.
That is the great thing about our country, and capitalism...we get the right to choose who we do business with.

As far as Georges comments, you really should put into perspective three important things.
1.. Humor and sarcasm rarely make it through in print.
2...East coast humor is "in your face" humor, I cant figure out west coast humor...
3...George will never apologise for any of this, so stop trying.

His business practices are his to determine, no one else has the right to tell him how to run his business, period...even if you think you should say something...it really does not matter.

Now, Once more, break time...here was my dinner.
BTW, my daughter WON the semi finals in BBall today...the finals are next week
There are only two teams left, Us and them.

Rich


Attached image(s)

Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 1 2009, 08:06 PM

Actually, I believe that George made the offer; to sell any catalog item, in his inventory, at a 20% discount from list price. By placing an order for a fuzzy dash cover, Johnnie5 accepted that offer, with all the conditions that were placed at the time the offer was made. When the item was not available from inventory, the order (acceptance) was canceled per the existing terms. I took one of those contract law classes also. The beauty of the law is that there's so many ways to skin the cat.

Posted by: ericread Mar 1 2009, 08:18 PM

I agree with the premise. However, consideration is not the "promise to pay", but predicated upon a payment being made. If you purchase a car, you will normally be required to make a payment of at least one dollar, so that the "consideration" requirement has been made.

In this case, it is unclear that any consideration had been paid by the buyer. The original poster never mentioned that his credit card had been billed, however, a third-party dis-interested party claimed that the credit card was indeed billed.

If, in fact, the credit card had not been billed, then no "consideration" had been perfected, and a legal contract had not been completed.

Had the credit card been billed, consideration had been perfected, and the buyer has a cause for a "specific performance" lawsuit. This lawsuit's best result would ensure the the item was provided at purchase at the specified price. Not much of a reward for the cost of a lawsuit.

Eric

Posted by: r_towle Mar 1 2009, 08:48 PM

To add more intrigue here...Internet case precidence is alot newer than your case law class, sad to say.
The existing cases regarding online transactions do tend to rule in favor of the business in these types of sales.
There was no bait and switch.
There was no misleading advertising.
There was no fraud.

There was a consumer trying to take advantage of a miscommunication.
This is viewed in the "average man" class and would conclude that the business, in this case AA, did nothing wrong and that any average man, with normal reading skills, could have understood the terms and conditions.

While you have taken one law class, I have dealt with this in court. I am not a lawyer, but I know how this works.
If the consumer is trying to take advantage of an automated part of the internet transaction system that does not line up and work as the "terms of sale" specify, the business is not at fault.
Most of these cases never make it to court...they are the types of cases that make me a firm believer in Tort reform in this country.

AA did nothing illegal, nor immoral. The initial customer that started this thread feels burned, but they did not read the terms of the sale.

Rich

Posted by: RJMII Mar 2 2009, 12:43 AM

Congrats on her win! That is awesome! Tell her we're rootin' for her. =o)

Posted by: mbrown3039 Mar 5 2009, 05:26 PM

So, SirAndy, why is it OK to talk about Toast's tits (their word, not mine) in my post entitled "OH MY GOD!" (about Renegade's newest V8 machine) but it's not OK for 'Stevl8' to voice his opinion about Rob? I'm just curious what the standards are so I can stay on the safe side of the 914World PC line. , Mike

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 5 2009, 05:35 PM

In the nailed threads at the top of the page see "Our Mission Statement, Rules & Logo Policy".

Posted by: mbrown3039 Mar 5 2009, 05:43 PM

Well, I guess calling you a buttlicker would fall under the "don't call anyone names" category, but wouldn't the rest of that rule ("treat other members like your mother taught you...") apply to the posts about Toast's anatomy? Mike

Posted by: SirAndy Mar 5 2009, 05:54 PM

First post, doesn't have a 914, never heard of AA before this thread, didn't add anything that hadn't already been thrown around and then proceeds to call members names ...
Obviously, he only came here to stir up some

That was a no-brainer to me, didn't even think twice about hitting the "banned" button.


As for Toast's Tits, i have no clue why anyone would have a problem with them?
Andy

PS: I never read that thread, so i don't know what you are referencing. If it has something in it that offends you, you might want to contact an admin about it.

Posted by: mbrown3039 Mar 5 2009, 08:40 PM

Oh....I thought I had. I figured since you banned the other guy, you must be an Admin. My mistake. Mike

Posted by: DBCooper Mar 5 2009, 09:58 PM

Lots of people using lots of big words about concepts that they obviously aren't all that comfortable with. Hmmm....

Let's simplify: No vendor should be afraid of getting feedback. If they are then they themselves already know something's wrong. My opinion.

Posted by: dw914er Mar 5 2009, 10:07 PM

I think andy is a retired Admin, though because of the technical work he does here, he still has some power... idk... hasn't affected me so I never paid attention


I think he said message an admin if it did bother you. He doesn't read *every* thread, and unless the alleged "tits" bothered you, then make a formal complaint to an admin (maybe it could be andy, or whoever). If not, then whatever.

as for the friend, he was here to just stir the pot, and was being counterproductive to the site and annoying to the members. People who have been here have more leyway when it comes to arguments like this thread because well, they are here for more than arguing, but whatever..


Lets give it a rest, and wait a few months till the next Dr. 914 appointment. This one has passed its usefulness.

Posted by: ericread Mar 5 2009, 10:25 PM

Die thread, die!!!

Posted by: RJMII Mar 5 2009, 10:31 PM

NO!!!

where's the CPR smiley? one and two and three and four and five and one and two and three and four and ten and...

breathe!

Posted by: DBCooper Mar 6 2009, 06:09 AM

You're not having fun?

Alright people, move along. Show's over, nothing more to see here so lets move it along.