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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Need help with engine noise
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 15 2009, 06:21 AM
I need some help identifying an engine noise. Let me know if this is a major problem or something simple I can fix.... Here's the http://www.tampabay914.com/Sound/Run02082009.AVI...
-- Rob
Posted by: 904svo Mar 15 2009, 08:19 AM
It sounds like you need a valve adjustment or the rockers are worn bad.
Posted by: FourBlades Mar 15 2009, 11:33 AM
> Need help with engine noise.
How's this: Braaaaaaaaa, bah bah bah, braaaaaaaaa!!!!
Posted by: underthetire Mar 15 2009, 12:19 PM
Sounds just like my car did when it sat for years. Mine had the following noises:
I have hydraulic lifters in mine. They had pumped down and stuck that way. Ran a quart of ATF through the engine at a fast idle for about an hour. Drained oil, re-filled with cheap oil and half quart of marvel mystery oil. Drove 300 miles or so. Changed the oil again with good diesel oil and it's been trouble free.
Fan belt was loose, rubbing on the fan housing. It made a similar sound.
My guess is valves out of adjustment if you have solid lifters.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 15 2009, 01:01 PM
Other than it idling high. there is some valve noise.
I still say like I did 2 months ago run it. Adjust the valves and run it. Quit worrying about it and run it.
Then I would run it some more. Maybe even race t.
If it blows it was bad
if it holds together run it some more.
Have I mentioned I would run it?
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 15 2009, 02:33 PM
Other than it idling high. there is some valve noise.
I still say like I did 2 months ago run it. Adjust the valves and run it. Quit worrying about it and run it.
Then I would run it some more. Maybe even race t.
If it blows it was bad
if it holds together run it some more.
Have I mentioned I would run it?
Thanks Joe, I already knew your answer, I was just getting a second opinon.....
Would this be a problem to a potential new owner? I'm going to put it up for sale soon, should I mention that I think it's making a strange noise?
BTW, I've adjusted the valves several times, but they always stay within tolerances....
-- Rob
Posted by: r_towle Mar 15 2009, 02:46 PM
You may not be adjusting the valves correctly.
It should be fine, Run it.
Rich
Posted by: jc914 Mar 15 2009, 04:17 PM
I have to agree it sound like Valve adjustment is needed. Mine did sound a bit like yours after being stored. I did a valve adjustment and it was gone. I might want to change the vacuum hoses. Good Luck selling
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 15 2009, 05:23 PM
Thanks guys, I'll get someone to look over my shoulder next time to make certain I'm adjusting them properly.... After that, hopefully I won't be bothered by the noise and I can drive it like I stole it..... 
-- Rob
Posted by: Jake Raby Mar 15 2009, 05:44 PM
Nope, thats a rod... either small end or big end. The video makes it hard to tell, but it seems too fast paced for a valve train related issue
When did this start? any other symptoms?
Time to drain the oil through a paint strainer to see what comes out with it and pull the oil pick up strainer to see whats there as well..
It really sounds like a small end rod knock to me..
Pul each spark plug wire while the engine is running and see if any one of them makes the noise quieten down. If it does, thats the cylinder with the issue..
Posted by: carr914 Mar 15 2009, 05:50 PM
Other than it idling high. there is some valve noise.
Would this be a problem to a potential new owner? I'm going to put it up for sale soon, should I mention that I think it's making a strange noise?
-- Rob
Absolutely, Rob, your my friend, but if you don't get this fixed and don't disclose it, you open yourself to a whole new set of problems.
T.C.
Posted by: carr914 Mar 15 2009, 05:52 PM
Jake I knew you would have the answer. I told Rob a while back to make an audio and send it your direction.
T.C.
Posted by: URY914 Mar 15 2009, 07:06 PM
Rob,
Rod.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 15 2009, 08:06 PM
Ya'll sould have heard it before he sealed up the exhaust.
I think it is noisy exhaust
Maybe you got a lopey cam
I crack me up......
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 16 2009, 04:43 AM
Jake, thanks for the suggestions, I'll follow through and let everyone know...
TC, that's why I wanted to find out what the problem is before I sell it....
-- Rob
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 30 2009, 06:31 PM
Well, since I couldn't figure out the noise, I decided to remove the engine and rebuild it... Here's where I'm today..... I can't figure out how to remove the main bearings or the cam bearings.... Also, does anyone see any problems yet? Tomorrow I'm planning to remove the con rods, then take the crank, cam, con rods to the machine shop for measurements.... Is there anything else I shoud take?
-- Rob
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 30 2009, 06:32 PM
Cam and crank...
-- Rob
Posted by: carr914 Mar 31 2009, 07:23 AM
Rob, I'm meeting up with my motor guy today. I will ask him to come to the site, your thread and take a look for you. I know it's been a while since he's looked at a Type 4 since all he builds now is 911 motors, but he's got 2 good eyes. I'll let you know what he says.
T.C.
Posted by: Joe Ricard Mar 31 2009, 08:35 AM
We won't know squat till he pulls the rods.
the center main bearing is hard to make out. I can't tell if that is copper or oil.
My bet is oil and will be waiting for the "I told you so" opportunity shortly.
If you remember I said it was exhaust leaks. so far I am right.
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 31 2009, 04:52 PM
I removed the con rods today, what a PITA....
Then I cleaned the con rods..... and guess what I found.....
wait for it....
wait for it....
I don't think I'm suppose to move this with my finger.....
So Jake was 100% correct and I'm glad that I tore the engine down before I caused major damage....
Jake, thanks again for your knowledge and assistance.... 
Nope, thats a rod... either small end or big end. The video makes it hard to tell, but it seems too fast paced for a valve train related issue
When did this start? any other symptoms?
Time to drain the oil through a paint strainer to see what comes out with it and pull the oil pick up strainer to see whats there as well..
It really sounds like a small end rod knock to me..
Pul each spark plug wire while the engine is running and see if any one of them makes the noise quieten down. If it does, thats the cylinder with the issue..
-- Rob
Posted by: URY914 Mar 31 2009, 06:06 PM
I knew it....
Posted by: watsonrx13 Mar 31 2009, 06:11 PM
I knew it....
Paul, I just went back over the responses and I forgot you also suggested it was a rod, so, you were also correct
, but Jake was more correct.... 
-- Rob
Posted by: URY914 Mar 31 2009, 06:45 PM
I told you the day we picked the car up. The guy said it made a knocking noise. I said "rod".
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 1 2009, 04:57 AM
So how loose WAS it? Like push hard with your finger it comes out? (no noise)
or tip the rod on it's side and it just falls out. (pretty good noise).
It was exhaust and it will be again if you don't fix it right.
Lets get some pictures of the big end bearings.
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 1 2009, 07:16 AM
Turned sideways and it fell out....
I'll get some pics of the big end bearings tonight....
-- Rob
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 1 2009, 06:10 PM
Big end bearings...
-- Rob
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 1 2009, 06:11 PM
Big end bearings...
-- Rob
Posted by: KevinP Apr 1 2009, 08:45 PM
Rob,
I was gonna say the #3 rod bearing big end, but I'm glad you found it!
who are you using in Lakeland for your machine work?
Do you have a pic of the piston pin? and is the bushing still tight in the rod end?
KP
Posted by: Joe Ricard Apr 2 2009, 04:09 AM
All you got left is cleaning and put it back together
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 2 2009, 04:32 AM
All you got left is cleaning and put it back together
So, I should finish cleaning the heads and block, have the crank polished, replace the main, rod, wrist pin and cam bushings and rings and put it back together? Any other recommendations?
-- Rob
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 2 2009, 04:33 AM
Rob,
I was gonna say the #3 rod bearing big end, but I'm glad you found it!
who are you using in Lakeland for your machine work?
Do you have a pic of the piston pin? and is the bushing still tight in the rod end?
KP
Kevin, I'm going to drop the crank and con rods off at Fisher Buggies for the measurements and machine work. I'm also going to get a price on the parts from them and compare that to the other vendors here....
I can get a pic later tonight of the wrist pin.... The bushing fell out of the #4 rod (see the first page), all of the others were tight....
-- Rob
Posted by: Jake Raby Apr 2 2009, 02:57 PM
Don't allow that rod to be rebuilt without the small end bore size being inspected. The loose bushing may have worn the bore of the rod and that may cause the same issue with the replacement bushing in a short time..
Glad you found it.
Told ya so :-)
Look our way if you need real assistance..
Posted by: watsonrx13 Apr 2 2009, 05:41 PM
Don't allow that rod to be rebuilt without the small end bore size being inspected. The loose bushing may have worn the bore of the rod and that may cause the same issue with the replacement bushing in a short time..
Glad you found it.
Told ya so :-)
Look our way if you need real assistance..
Thanks for te suggestion Jake.... I'm going to go my machinist tomorrow to get the crank checked, hopefully only a polish. I'm bringing the rods and wrist pin and getting them checked also... BTW, the cam shaft is toast, so I'll be contacting you for a replacement... I think you have a nice replacement for a 2.0l FI, correct? How should I contact/order this, via you website or call?
Thanks again for your assistance...
-- Rob
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