Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 20 2009, 09:23 PM

>>>> ANDY, KENT & JIM - SEE MY POST #62 @ PAGE 4 FOR PRIOR PIX OF CONDITION, THEN THRU TO PAGE 7 -
- & I'VE ADDED SOME MORE CONDITION EVAL PIX TONIGHT STARTING ON PAGE 7 POST #132> - 7/5/22



OK - UPDATE - I've added some Pix at the end of this thread - Again....

The updated history findings, new info & pix start at this post:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93838&st=60&gopid=1159791&#entry1159791

More new Pix 1/21/10 starting here:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93838&st=100&gopid=1264140&#entry1264140

Hi All,

I'm new to 914World's list, and am in the process of doing pre-restoration research for my `73 914-2.0 - VIN 4732901954, to help me decide how to go about restoring it, and how much time, money & effort to expend, & whether to do it the way I would have bought the car new - or only as originally sold. I'll determine its initial set-up by ordering a Porsche COA - but that apparently won't even tell me the original dealer who sold the car, let alone the original owner.

So I'm also looking for tips & other research avenues, since you cannot just order a CarFax/etc. for pre-81 cars, in order to try to recover it's original owners manual/service book/etc. & initial 3+ years' service records, history, etc.

...and a very long shot - does anybody per chance happen to have any information on my `73 914-2.0 - VIN 4732901954 ?


Ergo, I'm trying to close the gap of ownership history between its initial sale by the dealer in CA on 11/9/72 (which dealer?), and any/all owner(s) up to the time I purchased it in Feb.-Mar. 1976. {ed. - NOPE = Brain Fart - CA DMV sways it was 12/26/75} I've lost or misplaced my original loan and purchase documents from `76, and never had the original service records book either (which was not in the car when sold). It was also missing the owners manual, etc., as well as several key options which I had thought came "standard" with the 914-2.0 in `73 based upon period Motor Trend/etc. articles - i.e.: the full set of appearance group & performance group items. However, my recent on-line reseach indicates that they could come anywhere from "standard" to full Appearance & Performance Group options (at least on German/Euro models).

Was this also true for USA - & specifically California models - in early `73 production & sold in late `72? ...and what did the USA/California 914-2.0's typically/always come fit-out with?


I'm also seeking advice & opinions on how "true to original" to approach the restoration. I've put a summary of the car history, past work & current condition at the end below fyi. If buying it new, I would have ordered it "fully loaded" with all Appearance & Performance Group options (of which some were missing when I purchased it, as noted herein), and factory painted in either one of the "Alaska" or "Marathon"/etc. 914 met. blue colors, silver, black, or a factory custom color - such as the 911 "Anthracite Grey" met. (dk. grey met.).

And now - if/when it needs another engine rebuild, should I do it per "stock" 2.0L specs, or go for a FAT Performance, AutoAtlanta, etc. bore/stroke/compression "upbuilds" to 2.0-2.5L with more HP, on the original block/case number?


Contrary to my personal preferences above, it appears to have originally been either L80E "Light Ivory" (white) - or maybe a white undercoat/primer with a dealer custom color or color matched Gold or Bronze met. overpaint?? From recent research, I understand that it could have been either a factory "Custom" color from the Porsche, Audi or VW line, or a factory custom "Color Match." It appears to have the white under the intitial gold/bronze when I bought it, with my `76 color change to copper met., and then another to gunmetal or anthracite grey met. in `80. However, I understand that L80E "Light Ivory" was used as a base coat for the custom & color match factory &/or dealer paint jobs.

Is this true? ...and if so, then how would I tell whether the gold was a later repaint (maybe an accident?) or an "original" factory/dealer custom color?


Although it has/had sway bars & Bilstein struts, chrome bumbers & sail vinyl from the App. & Perf. Group pkgs. - it was missing the center console/gauges & fog lights, & Fuchs alloys when I bought it in `76 - instead it was sold with brushed aluminum Riviera mag wheels (I would have chosen the polished Fuchs or Rivieras if new). So it begs the question as to how original it really was when I purchased it? - i.e: did the prior owners remove the center console & fog lights (& maybe Fuchs wheels), or had they been vandalized/stolen & not replaced prior to its sale to me (which the COA should tell)? In any case - after checking out several earlier & lesser quality/condition potential 914's to purchase - my mechanic Hans Imports in Huntington Beach felt it was a strong car in `76 (he's Porsche factory trained on the 914's & still in HB), so I bought it and he's serviced it ever since (see summary at end).

Additionally, I'd had a couple of minor front-end "benders" over the 9.5 years it was my daily driver (neither were my fault), where the front faceplate/bumper & rubber bumper parts had to be replaced, & the front deck lid needed replaced/repaired & repainted - both of which precipitated color changes by me in 8/76 (Copper met.) & 5/80 (Dk. Grey met.) respecively. Then in 5/85 it was hit in a UCLA pkg. structure while I was in MBA classes, by a Sorority gal in her Honda Accord - both pushing in the rear end, and pushing the car forward 2 feet into a concrete column & pushing in the left front area & bending the retractable headlight assembly axle (no other mech. parts damage at either end - fortunately).

Since 5/85 it's been prep'd., covered & dry-stored on blocks in my garage to present, patiently awaiting my tender care! Unfortunately, I cannot get into the car at the moment to see the VIN & Mfg. date tag in the front trunk, Karman door tag for the paint & body code, engine & transaxle codes, etc. (which the COA will tell me anyway), due to my daughter's furniture stored on the other side of our garage while she's away at college. So at the present time, I don't have the open space needed to jack it off the blocks & roll it out, in order to look at the tags, take photos & work on it.

Having been sold in early Nov. `72 (& manufactured in May or June `72, if I recall the VIN plate in the front trunk correctly), and being #1954 914 in the `73 model year (not sure what number of 2.0 production it would be - but COA will show it). At #1954, it also would have the newer and better post #1000 door structure/design. Ergo, being an earlier part of the `73 model year production run, but late enough to have the kinks worked out - it MAY be worth going to "as originally sold" - if sufficiently unique.

However, it may NOT be worth that - NOT being a low milage pampered garage maven - having been a daily driver for its first 12.5 years with 191,000+ actual miles on it, & having the transaxle case changed for a used case in the12/83 transaxle rebuild, and having been either owner repainted (or custom? - see below) - possibly in an accident 11/72 - 2/76, and I've had it color changed 2 times myself since then, and in 2 minor fender benders, plus a semi-major crunching that put it into storage in `85 that I now need to repair. See the summary below...

Of note: I'm one who firmly believes that cars - like airplanes and other mechanical stuff - were meant to be DRIVEN (or flown/used) - and NOT rarely/non-driven, pampered & trailered to car shows, etc. So I would definitely be using this car as an "active" but "extra" 3rd vehicle for "pleasure use", at somewhat less than our other 3 cars' "daily driver" levels. However, since I home-office and my wife works within 2 miles, even our other 3 "classic" daily drivers only clock <5-7,000 miles per year. These include: an `88 VW Vanagon CamperGL ("Westfalia"), an `85 BMW 325e 2Dr. Coupe (1st year of 6 cyl. & only year with fuel efficient "eta" engine version) - both well kept/semi-restored/refurb., & a recently refurished/restored `88 Honda Civic Hatchback DX for our 2 college age kids' use (it will get the workhorse transportation duties with them).


So given the car's history & my preferences/use, does it really make that much sense to take it back to original, or go ahead and restore it as I would've wanted it - and how will each route affect its current & future "as restored" value - given its imperfect history?


Thanx for any help, opinions, advice, etc.!
Tom T
Orange, CA


Summary Car History & Key Points:

Ownership & Records:
Sold & 1st Registered in CA 11/9/72 - VIN 4732901954
I purchased it used in Orange County, CA in Feb-Mar/76 with 45,000 mi
As far as known, its always been a So Cal car for 36.33+ years
Present Engine, Transaxle & Body/Paint nos. currently inaccessible due to storage situation
(COA will give orig. nos. for comparison)
Orig. & any other prior owners unknown 11/72 - 2/76 (3.33 years)
I am 2nd (?) owner since early 1976, purchased with 45,000+/- mi (2-3/76)
ALL Records since 3/76 (but missing 11/72 - 2/76)

Useage & Storage:
Daily Driver 3/76 - 5/85 - approx. 146,470 mi (9.25 years) + 45,000 initial mi
Dry-stored covered & on blocks in SoCal Garage 5/85 to present (+/- 24 years & counting!)
Curr. indicated 174,342 mi - not correct due to repaired/reblt. Odo not set to true mi
Est. actual 191,470+/- mi, with the added est. mileage while Speedo/Odo was on fritz `81
(est. using milage at service records for avg. use during 6 mos. down & error at new odom. reset)

Major Mechanical & Body Work:
Last Body Resto & Color Change Repaint Apr/May `80 at 113,622
(it now needs repaint/restore @ 29+ yrs)
Engine Rebuilt in Oct `83 at 162,260e in same case/block (orig. # ??), Use = 29,210 mi
(engine "overhaul" to factory 2.0L specs in existing case/block - orig.??)
Transaxle Rebuilt in Nov `83 at 165,090e in used case (prob. won't match orig. #), Use = 26,380 mi
(transaxle "overhaul" to factory specs in "new" used case, due to excessive wear at seal points)
Other typical key mech. work & fixes done include:
Engine mounts, clutch cable tunnel reinf., fuel pump reloc. to front (ala `75-76 914s), battery tray "clean-up" & factory recall cover & pad (batts. never leaked/corroded due to my exclusive use of closed cell batteries), new Konis up front (from orig. Bilsteins), remanuf'd. EFI computer, clutch & throw-out bearings, CV joints, rear deck/trunk lid hinges, etc., & regular maint. per factory schedule while in use 3/76-12/85 (probably during 11/72-2/76 too, while under factory warranty).

Original Equipment & Options:
Has front & rear sway bars & had all 4 Bilsteins (Perf. Group?)
Has Chrome Bumpers, Vinyl Sail Trim, Padded Center Seat/Cover (App. Group?)
Did not have Center Console/Gauges, Fog Lights/Chrome Grill & Switch in 2-3/72
Has less common "Cinnamon" (tan) Interior & matching Tan factory loop carpet
Still has early-`70's Radio/8-Track when I purch. car 2-3/76 (orig.? - don't recall brand)
(I also still have many 8-tracks, but they probably won't play anymore)
Orig. Ext. Color was White or custom Gold/Bronze ?? (see above)

Owner Body & Paint Work:
Color changes: maybe Gold/Bronze pre-2/76 ??, Copper Met. 8/76, Dk. Grey Met. 5/80
Rust & Body Resto. 5/80 with last color change

Current Condition & Repair/Restoration Needed:
Curr. gneral cond.: has some small recurrent 1/4-3/8" rust bubbles on L/R cowl & at L/R sails-3/4 panels, some surface rusting on exposed underbody & engine compartment area (non-battery related), 2-3" tear to outside seat bolster on drivers seat (happens in every car I own!), worn older int. carpet at L&R floorpan areas (despite keeping Coco & Carpet mats 3/76-5/85), Last 1980 paint/resto job is "dead" with clear-coat failure/checking & needs repaint, & at 29+ years with age related deterioration - most/all rubber & other seals need replacement.

Last Accident curr. body damage due to 3rd Party hitting it in Pkg. Structure at UCLA 5/85 & pushed car front-end into conc. column, with front & rear end "damage to" items including:
(some parts may be repairable/restorable &/or replacable with "dead engine" or "roller" 914 body)
> Rear End: rear center body panel full width, back edge of rear trunk floor, lower fascia/valance (short), chrome rear bumper/faceplate & rubber bumper top/cap, L&R rear light clusters & lenses, rear deck/trunk lid, upper & lower latch mechanisms
> Front End: front center body panel, left fender-1/4 panel, left retractable headlight assy. (bent axle), lower fascia/valance (stock - not dam), chrome front bumper/faceplate & rubber bumper top/cap, Left `73/74 rubber bumber extension, front deck lid, upper & lower latch mechanisms
> Uni-Body / Suspension: check & adjust/straighten Uni-body as req'd., verify suspension cond. & repair/replace as necessary (will need to replace 29 yr old Bilsteins/Konis with 4 stock Bilsteins)

> Engine & Running Gear: Although stored with Engine & Transaxle Rebuilds at only 29k & 26k miles on them, it will need a thorough "going through" of all mechanicals to bring all systems up to safe & reliable running condition. If an engine rebuild is now required after a full check-out, then I may do it as stock 2.0L, or as a "built-up" 2.0-2.5L custom engine.

Addl. Items desired to add if appropriate:
Add Center Console & 3 Gauges,
Fog/Driving Lights w/ chrome grills & dash switch/wiring/breaker/etc. as neccessary,
Maybe 914-6 style elec. windscreen washer pump (although the orig. was so simple & effective, as long as you remember to check the spare!),
Maybe set of 5 OEM Fuchs alloy wheels (altho. I've always loved & preferred the Riviera style),
Replace to stock 4 Bilsteins as orig.,
Maybe do a "Built-up" higher performance/HP 2+L Engine (if/when rebuild needed again)
Other mechanical & condition updates & upgrades as appropriate




>> See NEW Pix & info. updates added starting at:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93838&st=60&gopid=1159791&#entry1159791


///////end

Posted by: johnnie5 Mar 20 2009, 09:30 PM

Whew, one hell of a first post! I wouldn't mind knowing a little more history on my car as well.

Oh, and...

Posted by: rick 918-S Mar 20 2009, 09:44 PM

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 20 2009, 09:48 PM

Well it was made in 1973, in Germany, from steel with good rust potential. Made from mostly German parts. It took a long boat ride in its youth, with others of its kind. It found a new home in the USA and has been there ever sense.

If I can be more help don't bother asking.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 20 2009, 10:45 PM

Thanx! for the humor on the "boat history", but not much help on researching it!
Tom T

Posted by: orange914 Mar 21 2009, 01:14 PM

i've done some reasearch on my early 73 it attempts to cover a spacific group of the first 1000 or so, yours may or may not be in it but maybe this link will help you

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=67816&hl=

hope thats of help. i just went thru and got rid of about 400 8-tracks i had stashed over the years for my old mustang factory 8-track... werrrr,click clack, werrrr.... gotta love um' oh yeah dont forget the matchbook wedge to hold the tape right

mike

Posted by: r_towle Mar 21 2009, 02:18 PM

It was sprayed with a special liquid rust accelterating chemical called Por 14, to aid in its long boat ride and assist in the short term lifespan.

Rich

Posted by: swl Mar 21 2009, 03:51 PM

Hey Tom - welcome aboard.

The Garage part of your story sounds way too familiar! When she gets back for the summer have HER clear out the garage. The nerve - taking up man space!

We have a whole lot of originality enthusiasts around here. I'm sure they will be by shortly. My understanding is that the early 73's were a bit of a mutt as they transitioned over to the new pattern. Parts were used up at different rates as they rushed to meet the demand in the US. A common marker of this group is vinyl on the A pillar. It does sound a little unusual to have a 2L without a console and fog lights. The Rivs of course were not an option. That was either a previous owner or a dealer scooping them to upsell a 1.7.

As to your restoration goals - of course you need to do what is right for you. Not the resale value. You've said you are a 'Drive it' kind of guy so I figure you would get more fun sinking your money into getting it on the road making it fun to drive. Given the bumps and bruises it has had it is probably not a candidate for a concours restoration.

Maybe set yourself some intermediate goals. As long as you don't hack into anything that would stop it from eventually being restored fully you keep your options open. Get in there and assess the rust situation and get it fixed. Get the fuel system, brakes, vacuum systems rebuilt. Fire her up. See where the journey takes you.

Posted by: ssstikircr Mar 21 2009, 04:28 PM

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 05:10 PM

Thanx for the History Mike -interesting read. I think mine post-dates the "first 1000+/-", as it is pretty much all 73 build, but may have a few carryover parts. It's curious how they snuck by Euro build engines (either 1.7 or 2.0) in CA with the smog regs. then, unless the did quick modifications before shipping them!?

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 05:31 PM

Thanx for the supporting 'My preferences" options Steve.

George Hussey at Auto Atlanta was really pushing for a full bore bare metal resto back to factory color, and not in favor of my using a s"donor" 914 - of course he's selling the parts!

As my semi-DD, I'd probably still want to stay in the realm of the stock/optional or available Porsche/VW/Audi colors of the day, and pick a nice metallic blue which goes well with the tan/cinnamon interior, and add the "missing" App. & Perf. Grp. items.

I'm up on the rust situation, but need access to do the clean-out & lead where bubbled! Daughter just informed me she's not ready for the furniture until next year 2010 or ?? !!!! We already have 2 storage shed full on the property (city max is 1 of 150 sf! - oops!), so now I have to get the addition done the wife's been bugging me about to put it somewhere. Argh!

So maybe we'll clear it out this summer long enough to put it on rollers, then "repack" her stuff. At least then I can roll it out to work on it in the driveway ...it's always sunny in SoCal - right!

As for intermediate goals - I'm doing the research, getting a COA, looking for likely "donors" & collecting parts.

Hey - does anyone know how realistic it is to just straighten & re-chrome the F&R bumpers? ...likewise to straighten & refinish the F&R rubber bumper caps & F rubber "tit"? (I've alys called them "rubber baby buggy bumpers!)

My paint & body guy who did the last paint & body in `80 can tell me what's repairable for the other body panels, if I can get it over to him in HB.

Tom T
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Posted by: Racer Mar 21 2009, 05:44 PM

If you included pics, it would have been the "posterchild" for first posts

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 05:46 PM

PS Mike -

I just figured out thaqt I can play the video clip on your post (duh - old guy!). Great clip - so I take it that's the son's 914? Let me know if you ever make it to the summer Classic Car Show in the City of Orange Plaza (traffic circle for most regular folk). We'll walk over & visit, gawk, etc.

Tom T
Orange, Ca
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 05:49 PM

Pix will come after I get my daughter's stuff out & can get to it! ...maybe a 3rd shed wouldn't be noticed?
Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 06:38 PM

Great video Rick!

...Geez - I thought I was borderline insane to want to restore my 2L - but a V8 conversion ! - waaaaay too much work for me, but I'll bet it hauls b***!

Being a Westy owner too - I liked the double-Westfalia at the Candlestick XC!


Were you flying out of OKC, DFW or ???? (...looked like flat land Midwest)

...and that begs the question - why not Road Trip it!?
Your Video brought back memories of my past 914 road trips:

SR1 - aka Coast Hwy - 2 914s (my 73 & friend's 72), `60 Bug-eye & `68 Spitfire - San Diego to SFO - 4 Day weekend - played "Double the posted Speed" up 1 - Don't try going south though - as you're on the cliff-side that direction! - weekend in SFO kickin' around ...then a Cruisin' return on 101.

17 mile drive to Pebble Beach Polo Grounds almost every March 1970 - 96 for the Monterey Rugby Tourney. ...I played Rugby 26 years - most at Scrumhalf - 4 at USC, balance 1st Div. - HB Unicorns 74-75 & Irvine Coast 75-86, 83-86 UCLA Biz School club, Coasters Old Boyz 86-96.... Ergo, the "It takes Leather Balls to Play Rugby" plate frame on the 914! ...when I played, they were still leather, ya see!

2 trunks - 2 folks & camp gear, or ski gear, or 10 speeds (yeah - I got both sets of "racks" for the 914), etc....
- up CA Coast (more leisurely those times), Park City (Rugby & Skiing), Cedar Breaks & Brianhead, Mammouth Mtn., Tahoe, Bryce & North Rim Grand Canyons, West Coast - SoCal to Vancouver Is., etc., etc., etc.!

Guess you can see how I piled up 146K on top of the 45k I bought it at, in just over 9 years from 3/76 to 5/85!!!! ...fortunately I used to bike to work for conditioning, so that kept the commuter miles down.

Hmmm.... More road trips... ....this is helping my motivation!

Thanx!
Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 06:41 PM

Thanx to all for "Welcomes"!
Tom T
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Posted by: Pat Garvey Mar 21 2009, 06:57 PM

Wilkommen! But we really need some pics of critical areas to help. Foremost the badge on the drivers' side front door jamb, as well as the decal on the drivers' side rear jamb. We're her to help.
Pat

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 21 2009, 07:09 PM

Thanx Pat - as I've said - as soon as I can get to it, I'll roll 'er out & snap some to post. ...but that may be a bit longer coming.

Any ideas on researching to close the initial 3+ year gap?

I suppose I could query all of the Porsche dealers in the OC & LA area from `72 that are still around today, and see if they might have any 36 year old records on microfilm? ...any bets on that one working?

I've already tried DMV thru AAA, but they purged the records, since I didn't keep the PNO up after `89. Any ideas on where DMV might have dead-filed records tapes????

Of course, then I'd have to track down the listed prior owner(s)! .....well, at least today there's the internet with which to search!

Tom T
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Posted by: sendjonathanmail Mar 21 2009, 08:21 PM

Pat - was it necessary to quote his first post?

Tom - You might want to try your regions PCA, and see if any members remember your car. Good luck!

Posted by: orange914 Mar 21 2009, 10:51 PM

yeah, kenny is responsible for inducting his mom & i into the world of 914's, we've always been mustangers. it's a long story but he bought his first 914 @ age 13 with paper route savings, worked up to this one. we recently bought him out so he could pay off his impreza (daily driver). once he's able though we intend for the 914 to find it's way back to his stable. meanwhile he's behind airbags and a more reliable vehicle for daily life as an 18 year old driver . we really want to make the upcoming 09 WCR if at all possible. if you don't know about that, do a search it's in so. cal in may(?).

mike

Posted by: swl Mar 22 2009, 06:32 AM

Yes George is a parts hawker but he also has the 914 disease worse than just about anyone here. There is no doubt bare metal is the best way to go but damn it cost the bucks. And time.

Surface rust is not a problem. It is the frame that you have to protect. Given the history of your car you probably don't have problems in the longs but you should still investigate. Take off the rockers and pull up the carpet on the inside of the longs.

back a while - maybe a year or two ago. Someone posted a picture of his garage where he had framed a box over the front end of the car. I thought it was genious. You could move some of her stuff on top the box so you can roll the car out of the box to work on it.


I had my rear bumper punched by a big old caddy way back when. They did a very exceptable job of straightening and refinishing but the chromer did a lousy job. Within a few years the rust started bubbling in behind and the chrome peeled. It all depends on the skill of the body man/chromer. Rubber on the other hand doesn't have many success stories. You might be better off watching ebay or finding the right donor car.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 01:47 PM

Hi Steve,

Given the damage to the pop-up headlight, body panels & deck lids - they'd all have to be repaired to make it legally roadable again, in addition to the running gear updates & maintenance.

Given your comment to not hack into it to keep future resto options open -
...is it better to straighten & repair the existing body parts?
...or to cut-n-weld "clean" used ones from a "donor" or parts source?
...or to try to get new body parts to cut-n-weld for the repair?

Given your comment about the oddity of not having the fog lights & center console, I've looked at the p914.com website regarding gauges, & according to them - if you bought a 2L without the center console & 3 gauges, then they were equipped with the combo fuel/temp gauge at the L of the instrument cluster.

However, mine just has the standard fuel gauge with only the parking brake light at the top (i.e.: no temp gauge). Being an early `73, mine has the silver button gauges with glass bezels, and the buttons are all still shiny & intact, with unscratched/non-fogged bezels - thanx to relatively dry SoCal climate I'm sure. It also never had vinyl on the A-pillars since I bought it in 2/76, and the sail vinyl doesn't & never had any foam under it - just direct adhered to the primed & painted sheet metal.

As to the fog lights, I just rechecked behind the front bumper grills and there is no evidence of a bracket nor screw/bolt holes to have mounted a fog light. This leads to one of two possibilities: either it never came equipped with them; or it had front end damage 11/72 - 2/76 before I bought it, & the original front body panel was replaced with another lacking the fog light. Body shops are known to cut corners, and could have pocketed the insurance money for the fog lights, etc., leaving the owners unknowing that they'd been shortchanged (or the owners could have opted for it at a lower cost, in order to help pay for the color change from white?).

This begs the question -
Does anyone know how hard it would be for me to add foglights to this front body panel without the brackets/holes, of course after having a body shop straighten that existing front body panel?

....or should I look for a roller or body part(s) for the 73-74 front bumper with fog lights & cut it in, since it's pushed in anyway from the accident?

For those interested in this fuel/combo gauge subject, look at:
http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_clusters.htm
http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_combo.htm
http://www.p914.com/p914_gauges_fuel.htm

Thanx in advance for any input!
Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 02:13 PM

Mike

I can't wait for our 20 yr old son & almost 22 yr old daughter to get off our AAA insurance! Their "cheapie" `88 Honda Civic Hatchback on which she's the primary & he's secondary drivers, will cost us next year more than both my 85 BMW 325e & wife's 88 Westfalia combined! I can just imagine how much they'd ding us for a restore 73 914-2.0 with them still on our policy!!!!

Still have 50+/- 8-track cartridges for nostalgia's sake to play - if/when I reinstall the stereo/player in the 914, instead of a current radio/CD type. However, I don't know if it's worth taking to a repair shop to fix - if anyone around still works on them - since it's been 30+/- years since I pulled it out of the car for a "new" stereo cassette player!

I pulled the original unit out of the box to see make & model. The front face shows no maker nor brand nor "Porsche", "VW", "Audi" lettering, but has a hinged station dial face to insert the 8-track cartriges into the player, and two in-out buttons aabove that - L for AM or FM & R for Mono or Stereo, with 4 small amber lights between to indicate the track being played. I'll post some pix when I can get around to doing it, and maybe some tight quarters in-the-garage-slot pix of the car too.

The radio/player unit did have on the bottom of the case - if I'm reading some of the hard to read numbers correctly - the following:
Bottom of case -
1VW4412 (printed)
P128 4 ("P" could be "D" or "R" or "B" ?? )
SER 4925 * 107419 ("*" is a silver rivet & numbers before are stamped, & those after printed)
27E43307001 (cast into case)
& several other printed inspection or mfgr., model, etc. printed numbers

Left side of case -
15D43330 C03 (stamped)

So I'm guessing it was one of the stereo sets that VW had made to market thru their VW/Porsche/Audi dealerships' options & accessories program.

If anyone has any leads on which radio it might be &/or where to get more "of the day" info about it, I'd appreciate any leads & info.!

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 02:38 PM

Thanx for the input Steve,

I think that the bumpers are straightenable - no tears, just bent; rubber is available new OEM/after market replacement & ditto for the lights/etc.

But what about the bent body panels? ...as in my other post - am I better off straitening the existing ones on the car, or replacing cut-&-weld with new (if available) or clean used ones?

These primarily involve the F & R center panels behind & above the bumpers, F or R edges of the F & R trunks' floors, F & R deck lids. They also look straightenable - but that's never perfect, involves a lot of work, and all too often - the liberal use of bondo!

RE garage situation: Given a weekend with good weather & son's help, we can probably pull out & rearrange the garage stuff to give me a foot or so on each side to roll her in-&-out on those wheelie-dolly things. But I'll need everything out in order to maneuver the floor jack on the sides to lift off the cement blocks. & then the tires will have load on them while resting on the dollies, unless I can find 4 jackable stands to put under the car when not in rolling use. Being 26 years old, those tires will need to be replaced anyway, so it may not matter.

The rack is a good idea, but we already have bikes on rafter hangers above & some lightweight stuff sitting on top of the 914 (bad me!). However, I think that a little rearranging & a 3rd yard storage shed may do the trick! I'm researching them now, and can get by on it being a "temporary measure" while we do our home addition this year (09/10),after which the stuff goes back into the house + new rooms. I can then trash the 2 older sheds & keep the new one for stuff & my business records/etc. I'm looking for those today!

Tom T
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 02:45 PM

PS - SoCal Air Quality Rules have so restricted the use of old & reliable paints - that the only things allowed in body shops now are water based low VOC paints that are relatively untried long term. Likewise, rechromers have serious rstrictions. So I may be better off taking the chrome parts &/or body out-of-state for the rechroming & repainting!

Something to think about, for those of you in CA & other urban areas where they have these air, water & other pollution controls' onerous restrictions. Check out what your shop will use 7 don't assume it's the same as "the good ole days"!

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the environment, but some of these restrictions go too far for no t necessarily a better end product, & then you end up with far more pollution from stuff that doesn't last.

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 02:53 PM

Hey Paul -

The car was first sold 11/72 - so it would be pretty hard to have been "made in 1973"! You must have gotten too much low desert sun, or too much polluter Jersey water - or both!

Fortunately most others on this site aren't as sarcastic & demeaning as your post!

Tom T
///////

Posted by: bembry Mar 22 2009, 03:21 PM

Whoa--I think he was just joking.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 07:59 PM

RE your WTB Euro tail light lenses, try these websites:

Performance Products / Automotion:
http://www.automotion.com/dept.asp?dept_id=4719&level=1

Auto Atlanta:
http://www.autoatlanta.com/model/porsche-914-parts/905-05.htm

Pelikan:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_ELlite_pg3.htm#item23

However, I'd keep the US ones if they're in good shape, since they're no longer available & harder to come by - ergo more valuable. Ditto for the front turn signal & round marker lights' US vs Euro lenses.

These were Handy, since taillight assys. are on my needs list too!

Hope this helps!
Tom T
///////

Posted by: orange914 Mar 22 2009, 08:58 PM

keep them in the civic until they're past the "dumb driving" years. let them grow to appriciate the 914. unfortunately i'm speaking from experiance... fortunately, kenny was in his civic daily driver when he "put it on the roof". i don't think he would have been o.k. in the 914 under the same condition. as i've heard, there is a 100% chance a new driver will be in an accident, both of my boys have proven that statement many times over!

does the 8-track work? 99% of the time the "rubber band" that drives the tape breaks with age... piece of cake to change. i gave away most of my tapes but still have a bunch of car units i haven't dealt with yet. one is a n.i.b. unit. remember the 4 track?

mike

Posted by: orange914 Mar 22 2009, 09:08 PM

i need to remove that off our signature, we now have a beautiful euro set (and will be shelfing the o.e. u.s. red set). i beleive my 73 must have had them origanally as it was in the group slated for european destination but then pulled for u.s. so they would have been converted to u.s. lighting spec.'s. just one of those thangs. do you need light buckets too?

mike

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 22 2009, 10:40 PM

Gee tom, check your sense of humor at the door? You should have checked that chip too. If your going to cry go to your room.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 22 2009, 10:41 PM

Mike,

I'll need both L&R full taillight assys. with lenses - preferably US. I'll by parts unless Iget a roller/DE donar 914 with them intact.

Haven't had the 8-track in since `78 & it worked then, but I've replaced the rubber drive bands in other 8T & cassette units before. Harder repairs could be in store if the electronics have suffered in that 31 years sitting around a box in my garage. So who knows.

Kids may have to stay away from the 914 until 26! I was pummeled with $2400 a year in insurance myself until I passed 25, and that was back in the `70's! ...hate to see what it would be today!! ...and so long as they're on our policy, apparently insur. co. will presume they'll drive it!

Of course, I'd also like to incentivize my son to help with the resto!

Tom T
///////

Posted by: Roy Mar 23 2009, 05:26 PM

Actually, most (but not all) guys prefer the earlier (lightweight) doors with the later scissor style window regulators. I believe this is a feature unique to the 'early' 73's.

Posted by: orange914 Mar 23 2009, 06:09 PM

did some early 73's have the light (non reinforced) doors with scissor regulators from the factory? how involved is it to convert?

mike

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 23 2009, 09:37 PM

Well Paul - between the close of your first post highlighted above and your "finger", you've proven my point!

Perhaps if you re-read your own post as is you're new to the list, maybe you'd see that it's not a very appropriate nor favorable "introduction" of yourself, let alone not very funny! My reply was prhaps not very funny about sun & Jersey water, but it was in the same vain of sarcasm as your intro. - so you apparently don't like it coming back your way either.

But let's not belabor the point - just stop responding to my thread, so others who care to be helpful can do so.

Buh-Bye! java script:emoticon(':wavebye:',%20'smid_58')
Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 23 2009, 09:42 PM

Given the flex already in the roadster design, some feel that the 5 or so pounds more is well worth the added strength & flex resistance that the later doors provide (so long as the rest of the unibody is solid, that is).

Tom T
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 23 2009, 09:46 PM

Opps here - dragged instead of clicked the image before:
Buh-Bye!
Tom T
///////

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 23 2009, 10:01 PM

Tom the only person that did not find it funny is you. Quit being a Dick...Tom.

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 24 2009, 11:50 AM

Tom,
Paul really was kidding. That is just his way and the way of many others on this site. You should see the shit they give me! Just their way of welcoming you... Kind of like the guys standing around in the garage with a beer in hand... If you had been here a couple years you would be just giving it back in kind. If Paul made a mistake it was giving you crap before he knew you better...

Good luck with your project.

Posted by: KELTY360 Mar 24 2009, 05:26 PM

Maybe he should come to one of the meetings.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=93379&hl=asshat

When is the next one?

Posted by: ConeDodger Mar 24 2009, 05:59 PM

We could invite him but he hasn't made an asshat of himself yet


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 01:06 AM

Here's a 9/08 MT article on a possible return of the 914 by Porsche which some of you may find interesting:

http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/112_0809_future_vw_porsche_914/index.html

Tom T
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 06:40 AM

...I looked at your AHA thread, and you guys are just nucking futs!!!! ...funny, but still F.N.!!!!

Paul is just a weeenie who can dish it - but can't take it. He just needs to stop whining. If it were reversed, I would just apologized to the guy & said no harm meant - instead he gives me the finger, which is not "friendly" banter in any universe! ...but I'll accept that he meant no harm, even if he can't say so for himself.

And after playing club & college Rugby for 26 years, I'm not exactly inexperienced in that area of dishing it out nor taking it - after I know someone.

In truth, most of the others posting here and on the other subject blogs are far more helpful than his and this ongoing defense of him, and I'm just not going to waste anymore time on this BS!

Cheers!
Tom T
///////

Posted by: Scott Schroeder Mar 27 2009, 06:58 AM

Posted by: So.Cal.914 Mar 27 2009, 11:52 AM

God Tom what is it with you? Were you abused as a kid? Sex change didn't take? Batteries dead in your anel probe? What? I welcomed you here , There was a smilie emo after my commments. I never said anything personal until you did.

SO FUCK YOU TOMMY

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 06:55 PM

...nah, sent the "anel" probe to uranus!
geez....just thot this iz wut u liked - trash talking!

BTW ... your first "intro" post said something like: "...if I can be of more help don't ask..." which I took not to be too neighborly...

...altho I did say I liked the boat story - remember?

BTWW ....then your next reply flips me off, rather that just being civil & tell me you were just kidding - i.e.: without the finger!

..and everytime I kid ya back, you just explode a new set of cluster bombs!

....so just stop beatin' it to death, will ya!

.......& stop around!

....& letz stop bein' a couple of - unless you get off on this banter?

...nuff said, let's get on with it!


Tom T
///////

PS - hope there's enough emotives here, that you get my drift... ...& let it rest.



PSS - - BTWWW - lots of us old folks[b][u] don't pay much attention to the cutsie pix in these things - like you young-uns - we just read the wordzzzzz!

...although it iz kinda fun when your off on Friday evening with wife & kids away & nuttin else pressin!!!!


...and look - everyone up there agrees with me!
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 07:00 PM

....just enjoy yourself ....& go look at what Porsche/VW may have up their sleevies for a 914 redu....it looks preety slick!


http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/112_0809_future_vw_porsche_914/index.html

TT
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 07:03 PM

..glad ur enjoying the Tom & Paul show!

...and so you won't take this wrong...... ... ....

TT
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 08:12 PM

Please see my inserted comments & rehashed Questions within my revised post above in the quote ^
Thanx!
Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Mar 27 2009, 08:27 PM

By the way - how do they come up with this "newbie", "senior", "custom", etc. "rankings" or "ratings" or whatever they are on our respective poster's info.?

...is it the number of times somebody's posted here? ..or time elapsed since joining up?

- cuz I can see where a lot of inane & meaningless posts can "earn" a misleading "ranking" or "rating"!


...or is it how long you've been in & around the 914's?

- and if that's the case, how can I be a "newbie" when I've owned my `73 914-2.0 for 33+ plus years, since 2/76!?


I mean, I'm just curious if I did something wrong when I set up my profile & should I change it? ...and if so, how?????


Also, does anyone know where the May `09 WCR is being held in Irvine, which is in my neck of the woods here in The OC?

...even if mine isn't drivable by then - I'd still like to come & check it all out, since I've never been to one. I'm sure my 20 year old son would enjoy it too, & we can bring one of our other "oldie but classics"!

Thanx in advance,
Tom T
Orange, CA
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 1 2009, 01:40 AM

Another couple of parts related questions:

1.) Can I use a pre-73 chrome front bumper & just drill out the holes to mount the 2 - 73/74 "rubber baby buggy bumpers" ("tits")?

2.) Will the front & rear body panels/bulkheads (behind & above the F & R bumpers) work from any year in my `73 ?? ...are they pretty much standard?

Thanx,
Tom T
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Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 1 2009, 08:37 AM

I'll chime in, yes you can use a early style bumper but it won't have the reinforceing metal for the tits. Good early chrome bumpers are hard to find too.

All back body panels are the same.

I'd get the color back to original from the factory whatever it was..

As for the engine, I have it refreshed with a Raby cam and lifters, the heads rebuilt by Len at HAM so it was up to date and the valve seats won't fall out on you.

Remember, you are in the "Garage" so just like a real garage standing around talking to other guys there is always some "joker" who is going to talk shit to you.

Go meet everyone at the WCR09 and make friends as friends are the ones who help you to source parts alot of which are NLA.


Newbies are newbies...

Posted by: Rob Ways Apr 1 2009, 01:09 PM

Awesome use of clickables!!!! Welcome Tom. You can hold your own!!! You'll be just fine...

BTW - I have 74 2.0 that came with the center console, black bumpers, vinyl, no sway bars. My understanding is that '73 2.0s were mostly fully equipped (called the"S"). The radio antennas were definately added by the dealers, as some are on the driver side, some on the pass. Your car may have been ordered as a strippy by the dealer too, because price point was a serious issue of contention for the lowly 914. Other than that, my knowledge is worthless.

Good luck on your quest.

Posted by: rdauenhauer Apr 1 2009, 10:35 PM

Uh they are considerably more than 5LBS more a door

And as to converting ..not gonna happen. Early doors are significantly different than mid to late doors. The up side is if you desire a later version just find a doner and bolt them on.

Posted by: Bleyseng Apr 1 2009, 10:47 PM

I have seen early doors with scissor window mechs and no side guards but never early doors with side guards and early cable windows mechs...

Posted by: jcambo7 Apr 2 2009, 12:10 AM

Definitely the AH of this thread Well I hope all goes well with you 914 restoration. I just purschased one 2 days ago n will soon be working on it. It's also a 73 2.0FI here is the link to my thread I started on it
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=94206
James

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 3 2009, 12:35 AM

I stand corrected - the actual total weight gain WITH the side reinforcing bars is 110#. I was really referring to the non-reinforced early switch-over style found in non-California 914s, which is what the other poster seemed to be referring to by early doors with scissor regulators.

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Apr 3 2009, 12:54 AM

Thanx & Thanx Rob,

My understanting too, was that all `73 2.0's came with at least both of the full Appearance & Performance Groups' options, and I just scarfed a mint sales brochure on-line that indicated that too (and referred to it as the "914 S" - but mine is tagged 914-2.0 as are all). And to think that 36 year old marketing "throw-away" was free, & I just paid for it!!!!

Certainly all of the MT, C&D, etc. articles of the day said so..but then those dealers can be tricky ole' b**turds! If it came from the one here in OC - it used to be called Chick Iverson VW - Porsche/Audi - but everyone around just call them "Jyp Iverson" (not sure of that spelling for "jyp" as in jyp you outta something).

My understanding on your 74 2L & all from that model year, is that they let more of them out with a wider range of options for that price point you were talking about. ....and back then, we on the Left (West) Coast had a $1000 shipping add-on to boot!

So yours probably was ordered with only the Appearance Group & not the Performance Group (sway bars, etc.). Fortunately from 73 on I think that they all had the hard points on for adding the F&R sway bars, so you could always add them. They REALLY help keep 'em flat in the corners!

My antenna is on driver's side front fender (mechanical, but I'll probably go with a new AM/FM/CD unit & electric antenna for now, & hold onto the AM/FM/8-Track until I can get it fixed/rehab'ed, then...?

Porsche called/e-mailed today that the COA is done & expect it in 3-4 weeks (I guess they like to collect the "float" interest on my card while I wait). Unfortunately i just noticed that it will NOT tell me the standard equipment, but only the options, so i won't get any definitive answer, & their e-mail in answer to my not on the app. for the dealer asaid it's too old to know that! ...geez - I still have my business records from the `70's, but then I'm paranoid of the IRS!

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Apr 3 2009, 01:01 AM

....okay, as I ass'd before (sp? ) -- where is the WCR09 going to be held????

I can read the banner that it's in Irvine - but where in Irvine???? Anyone have a clue as to the actual site?

If on one of the 2 closed Marine Air Stations here, that would make sense - in order to use the old runways & tarmacks for AX, but I can't think of anywhere else here for those events!?

Tom T
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Posted by: Tom_T Apr 3 2009, 01:54 AM

Saw your post & left you a few tid-bits James, but ignore the instrument one (others before me had it nailed) - except that if you wanted to return to `73 look, go hunting for the silver center button style.

When I get mine done in......??, my son & I may take her on a run from SoCal to Sallisaw, so I'll let you know & hook up on our way thru (around) OKC!

Happy Hammerin'!
Tom
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Posted by: Tom_T Apr 3 2009, 04:18 PM

Okay - Thanx All for the input so far....

If we can finish up my son's 88 Civic in time this week end, I'll try to take some pix of the 914's bumpers, rubber tops & front "tits" to get opinions on straightening them all for re-use, since they're mostly all now NLA.

How can I post or insert pix into this dang post???
I tried to do one the other day, but it wanted a URL!? ....so does that mean I need to set-up & post them on my own home page or something?

As I said before, I'm trying to collect the parts necessary to get my `73 2L back on the road after being dry stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 (+/- 24 years!) - both Mech & Body, and my preference is to stay OEM/OES or close to stock.

So I want to post questions on various systems, components & parts here - IF this is the appropriate place, or should I look to other areas on this bbs???
Please let me know if not &/or where I might get more & better responses to a particular topic.

That said, I'm looking at brake stuff this week. - for STREET driving use, without any...

A few Brake System Questions, so I can take advantage of Performance Products 15% off sale this week:

1.) First & Foremost - are Performance Products prices typically good competitive pricing??
....& are their weekly specials & discounts are worth jumping at?

...or can I do better just shopping around?

Dr. 914 - George - feel free to weigh in on your Auto Atlanta stock!

2.) Brake Pads - OEM or ???? by whom? - STREET use
> which for improved braking?
> which for best life?
> which for least "squeal"?
> which don't have asbestos? (a no-no in CA & PBR has it!)
> ratings for: ATE, Jurid, Textar, Pagid, Mintex, Hawk, PBR, others?

3.) Stainless vs OEM Rubber Brake Lines?
> worth the extra price?
> longer life? ...if so, how much longer lasting?
> what is "shelf life" for each in terms of rubber/teflon/silicone?
...I hope to get them installed in `09, but it might be next year, what with all of the other stuff to be done!
> whose are best? ...Weltmeister? ...others?

4.) Master Cylinders - 914-4's 17mm -or- 914-6's 19mm?? (OEM only)
> 19mm are straight bolt-in substitute - correct?
> any steel lines, connectors or anything else need to be changed with 19mm?
> how much improvement 17 > 19mm? ....& for $45 less @ 19mm!
> any issues, concerns & problems in using 19mm?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> any external rubber lines/parts to also replace on MC's? ...any available in SS?
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current MC which has sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)

5.) Brake Fluids --
> Porsche OEM vs. which others? - for STREET use
> How much do I need for complete change-over & bleeding? - # of oz. or ml & # of cans/bottles?
> what is "shelf life" if left un-opened until rebuild? - +/- 09/2010?

6.) Disk Calipers -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> new vs remanufactured vs "rebuilt"
> are OEM &/or OES now NLA? ...or if still available - where?? Front? & Rear?
> best mfgr source(s) for OEM Re-mans?
> what & where are the retail sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
...I hope to get them in 2009/2010, but don't want them deteriorating on my shelf!
> safety issues & viability of rebuilding current Calipers which have sat 24 yrs.?
...for safety reasons - I prefer it OEM/OES new or reman. unit (in case of internal rust/pitting/etc.)
> best caliper rebuild kits & mfgrs? ...& is the shelf life of the rubber parts 2009-2010 or more?

7.) 914 Proportioning Valves -- (they're not on sale now for 914s, but for future Ref.)
> are OEM &/or OES still available? ...&/or OEM/OES Remans?
> any better alternative p.valves to elim. "spongy pedal"?
> how are the adjustable ones (like JWest)?? ...& how ahrd to adjust to get right for STREET use??
...or are they more of a pain in the A than they're worth????
> what & where are the sources for above alts?
> what is "shelf life" in terms of their rubber/teflon/silicone "innards"?
> I'm not interested in replacing it with a "Tee", cuz it serves the function to prevent real lock-up & resulting spin-out or swapping back-to-front when you have to brake hard!!


Any other Brake System Tips?


Note that I'll hold off on buying anything without a "safe" shelf life thru 2010, until the actual time I'll be doing the brake system - sale or not! ... just to avoid those moments!


Thanx in advance guys & gals!
Tom
///////

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 03:54 AM

OKAY - So just to make you happy, last week I spent 20+ hours digging the crap out from on & around the 914, crawled over, under, in, around & through taking pix & assessing the work ahead - literally through, as the pass door is inop. & there's only about 12" clear on driver's side, so I used a broom to crank down the window & slithered in! Since this post process limits pix to 500kb & my camera took 1-2+ MB pix, I've had to crop down a few to give you the general idea of what I'm up against.

Hopefully you can then all weigh in on whether to fix or cut-&-weld-in "new" parts (probably from a donor junker 914)????

During that grueling overnight process, I also pulled off the front bumper/etc., grills, horns, valence, turn & marker lights (for safe-keeping ya know!), etc. In that process, I found the fog lights' wires just snipped off behind the dual tone horns (verified that: 375 & 400 MHz), and the mounting bolt receivers were hiding behind the tweaked bumper et al. Of course I've always seen the perfect hole in the dash & basketweave cover material where the switch once was!

I also found the center console's front & rear mounting brackets' holes under the dash & in front of the storage console/flip-up pcenter pad; & the wiring harness connectors under the tunnel carpeting - so apparently it was once there - pretty sure to positive also! Why it was removed??? ....maybe for more leg room, especially if the center flip-up cushion was often used for a 3rd passenger??

No idea on why the Rivieras instead of 2.0 Fuchs, unless it had to do with one of the speculations that either I or your responses posed. Another new speculation I have come up with in researching 914 recalls, is that there was a Porsche Recall regarding the Alloys being improperly installed, and maybe the Dealer took the easy out & just installed VW Rivieras instead of correcting the front hubs/rotors???? I'll have to pull the RF Riv & compare the Rotor on there with the new ones I just got, to see if it has that little centering bump-out thingy!? ...real technical I know, but I'm brain-dead about now I can't think of the name of it!

Wouldn't it be a hoot if I could force a dealer to correct that & do the proper rotors, hubs and go find & buy me some nice 2.0 Fuchs Alloys ALL AT THEIR / PORSCHE'S COST!? ...I know, I'm dreamin'!!!

However, along those lines, I had the COA gal refer my query about whether Porsche would still do the Fule Lines & Battery Recall Campaign on mine (to at least save me some of the cost to replace the old OEM lines). And they do and I even got an "official Porsche Case Number" to get it done at a dealer whenever I'm ready can get the 914 to them. Then they have to find somebody who knows how to work on a 914 (since the car is probably older than most of their mechanics today) & run down the parts! They apparently have to honor all uncompleted recalls!

But first, an update on the "History Quest"! The COA is on the way, which actually prompted my picture quest 'cuz they needed a pic of my GA engine number before they would list it as a 2.0!

Furthermore, I've tried to read the trunk chassis number stamp which is very faint after OE + 3 Repaints, and with the limited clearance at the driver-side door, I can't even see the front label, the rear jamb lable & the one on the Pass-headlite box were painted over & unreadable - ANY IDEAS ON HOW TO CLEAN OF THE PAINT WITHOUT DAMAGING THE LABEL????

I also verified Sway Bars F&R, and the "Red" Konis went on the rear - not front struts as I'd said before (that was only a fix for one upper F strut mount, per the service record). I know that my mechanic told me they were Bilsteins before, but back then the replacement OEM Bilsteins were 2x the Konis, and cash was tight then - so I went with Konis!? I haven't tried to look in to see the F strut inserts, but the struts appear to be black or dark grey where I wiped off the grime, which I think means their Boge Struts - yes / no?? So I feel that verifies the Performance Group Package was there "standard"

And I verified dual tone horns, I know I have the intermittent wipers 'cuz I've used them!; verified the center console/gauges were most probably there at one time, she has the mouse-fur targa top headliner & "textured" black finish on it outside, has the vinyl roll bar trim & chrome F&R bumpers, has the tan/"carmel" loop/pile OEM carpet & Tan/"Cinnamon" Leatherette/Basketweave upholstery, padded Leather(ette) covered Steering Wheel & Shifter Knob (with the "old colors" cloisonne Porsche badge), & leather(ette) shifter boot - all confirmed & per the pix.

So that all sounds like the "fully loaded" 914-2.0 / "914S" upgraded equipment, as described in the early 1973 Porsche 914 full 9 page marketing brochure which I recently acquired on=line from Bishko for this very purpose. Therefore, I feel fairly confident & comfortable in restoring my early 914-2.0/914S with all of the currently "missing" 2.0 AG/PG items: restoring the missing fog lights/chrome grills, center console/3 gauges, & 4 Fuchs 2.0 Alloys.

...or would it have come with 5 Alloys - including the spare???? (FYI - my spare in the pix is the "then new" for 73 steel wheel with the cross-pattern stamped design)

However, during several phone & e-mail conversations over the past 2 weeks with Kristen doing my COA at PCNA, I now know the following:

VIN 4732901954
Only Options listed: US Equipment & Tinted Windows
> she had nother for certain on "standard 2.0 AG/PG Eqpt."
Engine Case # GA000424 - matching
Trans Case # 914/11HA0042874 (I think it is a 74, cuz mine was too worn for the 12/83 overhaul & a used case purchased)
Chassis # 5649545 ? (based on hard to read trunk stamp)
> (1st 5 could be a 3, 2nd 6 could be 3 or 8, 4th could be 8, but pretty sure on rest)
OE Color Code L80E Light Ivory (as I suspected)
> But I'm still unsure if the Gold Metallic when I bought it 12/75 was a Dealer or First Buyer Requested Repaint by the Selling Dealership.

Is it better to go back to the OE color, or to the Dealer Repaint (if I can verify such), of would it be okay to do either if it was a point-of-sale request for the Gold????

Another correction to my initial post: I had a memory related brain fart, & when I looked at my California DMV Registration Cards, it indicated a first sold/registered date of 11/9/72, and my purchase/renewal cycle date as 12/26/75 - and not the early 1976 acquisition date that I was presuming from my earliest service record date! So I've actually owned my teener a few months longer than my decrepit mind had recalled, dating back 34+ years, and purchased her just past her 3rd Birthday!

Also - given that the Gold Metallic paint wasn't super fresh & new on 12/26/75 - like a recent accident repaint would be, since I had to do a repaint in 8/76, that lends credence to it either being a dealer/initial buyer requested repaint - or at least a very early accident repair/repaint to gold!

I also found out that Calif. DMV will do research into their microfilm records under an "Information Request" at $20 per yeaqr requested (11/9/72 - 12/26/75 is only 4 years & probably well worth the $80 to fill the gap! ....especially if I can recover the missing fog lights, center console/gauges & 2.0 Fuchs Alloys from the PO/OO!!!! ...or at least answer what happened to them & why, & why/how the Gold color!?

If you're in CA & want to get this research, just go to the dmv.ca.gov website & download the "Information Request" form, fill it out & send it in with your check! ...then wait....

Okay - now for some pix, but bear with me, since I have to upload them 1 at a time due to the posts' attachment size limit. After I can figure out how to upload the full 8-900 pix to a homepage - which I'll also have to figure out how to create, then I'll post a link back at the front on my first post here.

Starting with Rear End Work.....

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:00 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:01 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:02 AM

[attachmentid=175096]

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:06 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:07 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:11 AM

NEW VS OLD DAMAGED TOP STRIP - MINE DOESN'T LOOK SO BAD!

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:14 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:21 AM

2.0 MUFFLER NOT DAMAGED - JUST SURFACE RUST TO CLEAN UP -
...besides, I got it fom Midas back in `83 with a Lifetime Free Replacement Guarantee - paid exreee for it too!, so it's their problem when it goes! ...I just need to clean it up & repaint it for now!

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:23 AM

NOW FOR THE FRONT END DAMAGE

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:25 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:27 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:28 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:29 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:31 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:33 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:34 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:36 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:38 AM

MY MASHED FRONT BUMPER HORNS/TITS

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:40 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:43 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:47 AM

BATTERY TRAY CRUD TO R&R + CLEAN UP OTHER SURFAVE RUST AT HELL-HOLE

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 04:55 AM

PASSENGER SIDE FRONT FLOOR PAN RUST OUT JUST BEHIND STEERING RACK - 6" X 3"




WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM?
....SO I CAN FIX THE CAUSE TOO, SINCE THE NEXT FLOOR PAN SHOT INSIDE IS NOT RUSTED OUT

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:02 AM

BOTH JACK POINTS - TUBES & BASES TO REPLACE - THIS IS PASSENGER SIDE
...YET TO SEE CONDITION BEHIND ROCKERS....

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:07 AM

OE TAN LOOP / PILE CARPET AFTER 24 YEARS SINCE LAST CLEANED / VACUUMED




AND ALUMINUM THRESHOLDS OF EARLY `73s

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:12 AM

OEM/S "VW 4412" AM/FM/8-TRACK STERIO/MONO RADIO/PLAYER WITH OE BASKETWEAVE-LOOK FACEPLATE

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:15 AM

8-TRACK CARTRIDGE GOES IN HERE......






ID NUMBERS ON BOTTOM - ANY IDEA OF MAKER? E.G.: MOTOROLA, BLAUPUNKT, ETC.?

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:19 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:20 AM

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:28 AM

SEMPERIT "SST" "V1" 165HR15 OE SPARE TREAD PROD 2-1973 i THINK
...A REPLACEMENT TIRE, BUT I THINK IT WAS THE FIRST OEM TOO
....IT'S MOUNTED ON THE SILVER PAINTED PRESSED STEEL 5.5J X 15 WHEEL WITH THE "NEW MAG LOOK" CROSS DESIGN TO THE STAMPING






1983 KLEBER (MICHELIN SUSIDIARY) 165HR15 STEEL RADIALS - LAST / CURRENT TIRES ON RIVIERA MAGS AT 4 WHEELS - STILL GOOD TREAD BUT WELL PAST THEIR "SAFE LIFE" !!!!

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:32 AM

LASTLY - OTHER ACCESSORIES - HARDT B14 BIKE RACKS FOR 914s
...ALSO HAVE SKI RACKS FOR 2 SKIIS ON 1 SIDE (CAN DO 2 ON EACH SIDE FOR 4 WITH 2 SETS OF RACKS), BUT THOSE PIX AREN;T TRIMMED DOWN YET!

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 20 2009, 05:51 AM

BIKE RACK PARTS & BOX




BTHLA - BTHLA - THAT'S ALL FOLKS - FOR NOW! - (That's a Porky Pig Rendition for you Young-uns!)


BTW - the build date on this was 9/72 according to the COA lady!


PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THINK CAN BE FIXED,

VS

WHAT NEEDS TO BE CUT OUT & "NEW" STRAIGHT PARTS WELDED OR BOLTED IN???

97 degrees out here today, as we went thru my deceased brother-in-law's stuff on the 914 - trying to make a permanent clear-out a reality. That's just too stinky hot! yeah, yeah - I know -it's a "dry heat" - still hot as

OK - Now I'm DUN with for now & really need to

///////

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 21 2009, 01:40 AM

WUT - nobody looking at my post anymore - after I gave you all the Pix you asked for!?

Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 21 2009, 08:26 AM

I know that I wouldn't want to be doing that repair work. But then, I can't do bodywork.

WRT the spares: It was evidently pretty common for dealers to replace the spare alloy wheel with a steelie. If they did that to four cars, they could then sell the alloys as a full set, or possibly swap them onto a car that was delivered withs steel wheels.

Sometimes people wanted the Rivs instead of the Porsche alloys (Pedrini, Mahle, Fuchs). The dealer would usually be happy to oblige (while charging for it of course!).

--DD

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 21 2009, 12:21 PM

So I take it I should look for 5 Fuchs 2.0 Alloys then?

...yeah, then they could throw those other "steelies" into yet more "stripped 2.0's"!

BTW - I'm only going to do some of the more basic bodywork, rust work & maybe stripping & POR15 & priming, then turn it & the parts/parts car to the Paint & Body, Bumper/Re-chrome & unibody rack pro's! I can do maybe all but the F&R damage, & bottom & battery stand rust items - unless my buddy still has his welder - in which case we could take on the latter 2 items also.

I've done some less serious body work than the F&R above. A couple of weeks ago we finished up an inherited 88 Honda Civic for my kids use, doing minor chips, dings & rust areas, plus leading & bondo-ing the LF fender damage at the pic below. We got it to primer stage, then took it to MAACO for a quick urethane paint job, which we hope will last the kids 4-8+ years. That was a "practice car" for the 914 by my son & myself.

`88 HONDA CIVIC HATCHBACK "PRACTICE CAR" FOR MY UPCOMING `73 914-2.0 PROJECT
completed April `09 next......

Posted by: tod914 Apr 21 2009, 04:32 PM

That bike rack is very cool. Someone not too long ago made a post to see if they were ever offered for the 914. Good luck with the project. You came to the right place. Some very tallented people here which can point you in the right direction with body work.

Posted by: Tom_T Apr 21 2009, 09:09 PM

Thanx for the support Tod!

Given my car's accident history rendering it probably not a CW candidate, I just want to try to resolve the rust issues, do the body work as cost effectively & efficiently as possible to get it street-worthy & looking good, such that it will last & maintain/increase in value over time. That will make my son happy to inherit a reasonably solid 914-2.0 one day!

I'm not trying to make it into one that you can eat off of - like yours look/sound like, and those of others on here. I just cannot imagine owning a car like these for 35+/- years with only racking up 23k miles! I like to my cars. To each his/her own though!

I had a buddy who got an early 70-4 1.7 who rarely drove it and would probably be in that category! Last time I saw his in the early 90's, his red paint, interiors, trunks, etc. ALL were still showroom fresh! We called him "Mr. Perfect" because he was that way about everything! He bought a 70 Datsun pick-up at the same time & drove it as his DD (for the yung-uns here - that's a "Nissan"!! ), and only took the 914 out to wash it tenderly & stroke it a bit , or to impress the ladies on a date! Don't know if he still has it though!? ...if so, he'd probably win just about any PCA Parade hands down with that one!

I guess I'll just "KISS" it, & get a bag of 50-100 of those white rivets @ 20 cents each from you for posterity's sake - unless they need to be rationed more for others? For $10-20 bucks + S&H - it can't hurt to have them on hand! PM me with the particulars for payment & mail? - check or credit card? How close to the ones in my pic on the rockers post are they? ....mine look like little white miniature "Dolly Parton Titties" - half-domed with a little extension on the top/cap probably to stabilize whatever tool they used to insert them.

Please do let me know if you ever run down the metal ones for the rocker tops & I'll get some of them too!

Posted by: Tom_T Oct 27 2009, 07:20 PM

FYI - UPDATE ON RESEARCHING OWNERSHIP & RESTO

Cal DMV turned out to be a dead-end, since even their microfilm/microfische records didn't go back to 1972 to get the original buyer from the 11/9/72 "sold new" date on my first DMV reg. card for 12/76-12/77. Ergo, when I can get to my old dead file records, I'll have to check if I still have anything on the PO, then try to track them down - if they're even around anymore - here in OC or otherwise - let alone if they have any more info on the car......just wish I knew to ask more back then!

I suspect that when I let the registration lapse in 12/92 as the 914 continued to sit in the garage, that DMV canned the records, which MAY not have happened if I'd kept it on PNO. I'd planned to keep the PNO up at $5.00/yr., but they stopped sending the renewals after `92, & by the time I tracked it down they wanted $1000s & a smog test (car wasn't running at all by then), full registration, penalties & interest in order to reopen the registration. Hopefully they won't pull that BS now!

However, that Cal DMV info request at their website MAY be useful for those with Cali 914s which have been continuously registered in CA.

I also got a shed up & am in the process of getting the stuff out of the garage so I can actually get 'er off the blocks & out!....& the shell in too. I'll post pix from outside once that's done, but probably to a fresh post - probably at the Garage section, as well as focused posts on specific originality/resto questions here.

I'm still awaiting correction of the erroneous COA, and a PCNA Regional Tech. Mgr. is coming out to inspect the 914 for recalls, & I'll get him to weigh-in on that too! More to come on that front too......

As to the resto - well, I've collected about 80-90% of the parts that I know I'll need - including a former racer 74 2L shell (Thanx Barry & Mike!) with the body panels I'll need - to repair, restore & rejuvenate my ole 73 914 2L.

There will still be more to get as I go forward, at the time they're actually needed, such, as:
> Injectors, Sensors, ECU/Rebuild, Fuel Pump, etc. for the EFI to be fresh.

> PMB F&R Caliper Restorations & Porterfield R4-S pads from Eric @ PMB - Thanx for the recco guys!

> Tires - ohhhh, that's a whole long & still undecided story elsewhere here!

> Seals & Rubber, depending upon what turns out to be in bad shape on closer inspection once I can get it out & look closer - but I know that I still need: L&R inner door seals, L&R front tits & front topper for sure - hopefully Mark @ Mikie914 comes thru on the tits soon, he has the topper, & I'll probably use his superior rear topper over the OE one I already bought - another great recco!

Still on the hunt for:

> Front Chrome Bumper - got good 71 restorable DD level cores & can use the rear, but will need to trade/sell the 71 front for a 73-74 with holes for the tit-studs (I know, I know, all you guys are tit studs! )
- anyone got a trade?

> L&R Taillight Assemblies with VG-Excl USA Lenses - missed G&R Sunday due to work stuff, but will keep hunting
- any advantages of getting nice used/NOS over the AA repros for such lenses??

> VG-Excl Driver & Pass. OE Loop Pile #503 tan & brown speckled Floor Mats, to match this carpet:


BTW - I will be going back to the OE L80E Light Ivory with #31 Beige Interior afterall, along with recreating all of the Appearance Group items originally on the car, but removed by the PO or dealer - incl.: fog lights/dash-switch, center console/gauges, & 5 Fuchs 2L alloy wheels - just got to clean them up & add them when she's ready to take them......but lotsa paint/body & mechanicals to do first!

....hmmmm....let me know if I've left anything else unanswered or hanging here for now.
Cheers All!

Posted by: 914_teener Oct 27 2009, 08:20 PM

Yes...did you say that you had a picture of an aftermarket ski rack for teeners? I remember seeing plenty of them here in so-cal back in teh 70's......yes I am old enough!

Thanks if you have one or a picture.

Rob

Posted by: Tom_T Oct 27 2009, 09:15 PM

See below & next post for pix of it. I got it at Gyp Iverson (Chip Iverson) Porsche+Audi in Newport Beach (Now Power Porsche NB) for less than $50 back in `76, & used them every winter 76-85!

It sits with skis held flat a few inches above & parallel with the Targa top, causing less wind turbulence, than the type from the rear bumper (bolts into tow-hook hole) & up to the roll bar (as in the rear rack shown in the next post) - with skis held at angle. The latter type also blocks access to the rear trunk without removing the skis, while these allow you to get in there if you don't fully open the trunk deck lid (ends of skis limit travel just a bit, but can be strapped into rack far enough forward to open both trunks without removing skiis.

FRONT RACK - MOUNTS INTO TARGA TOP GROOVE IN WINDSHIELD TOP FRAME:


...continued next post....

Posted by: Tom_T Oct 27 2009, 09:20 PM

....and here's the rear rack of the set....

BTW - these can mount either on the driver's or passenger side, or both - if you want to bring along downhill + XC skis for 2!!

REAR SKI RACK - MOUNTS TO UNDERSIDE OF ROLL BAR AT THREADED ACCESSORY MOUNTING HOLES:



How's that!?

Posted by: JazonJJordan Oct 28 2009, 01:29 AM

Absolutely excellent study Tom, I think I will try to do mine.
I know mine is a wadering-lost from CA car.
Yours is a great project. It is nowhere near terminal; true or loose the rear lid. Replace the taillight steel section. True or replace the trunk rear portion of the floor. That's not but a few hundred and some weekend work, easy.
Work from there. The front is the same.
Eat a cow. You can do it. Just slice it, at one steak- at a time...ahhhh-good!

Posted by: Tom_T Oct 28 2009, 02:08 AM

Thanx....

Nice thing is, I was donated a wrecked racer shell which folded under the rear suspension with console damage, but pretty much everything I need in terms of F&R deck lids, L headlight/inner fender area, rear face panel & trunk floor & even the passenger floor/steering niche area (where my mystery rust hole appeared while in storage) are all there for the cutting!

Most of this is well beyond my skill level & limited tool bin, so rather than my f***ing it up, I'll have a good shop familiar with 914 body & paint help me with that part.

All I've got to do is get my daughter;s & wife's "extra" furniture out of the garage so I can get to it & start. Unfortunately, I have to do some business stuff first, then start moving stuff out to the new shed my son & I built this summer!

Posted by: kenshapiro2002 Oct 28 2009, 07:17 AM

Alright...tell me what I'm missing here guys. The car has serious rust, and has been smacked in on both ends pretty nicely. It doesn't have sentimental value, and I had to look a few times to make sure it wasn't some rare 914-6 or special edition. He says he's going to do some preliminary work but have others do the body work. Seems to me it's going to take many thousands to make this car right, when much better examples can be had for far less than even the body work is going to take. Tell me where I'm "off" on this appraisal.

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 02:19 AM

... sentimental value at the least, and a drive train thoroughly overhauled a few 1000s miles before it was smacked, I'm the second owner for 35 years, is a matching numbers early-73 914S ...

Perhaps not "worth it" to you and others here, but I ate many a PBJ sandwich & lotsa Mac-n-Cheese to get her, spent $10,000+ between Dec 75 & May 85 when she was my only car & DD, met & dated my wife in her, etc., etc.

While I'm not a "hammer-head" like many out there, it's not a necessary aspect to presume sanity in undertaking the project, because I'll bet that most out there have spent way more time & money on their 914 projects.

... and then, what's your time worth in doing so, especially when others with more expertise & better equipment can do it more quickly & efficiently! If someone can make more money per hour than what it costs to send it to a high quality resto shop's hourly rates - & even a modest $30/hr. job pays $60 for your double overtime on those evenings & weekends - same as most shops today, & add in how many $1,000s for tools & power-toys.....I think you get my drift, & the "other better 914 out there" is certainly going to require work too........so then - who is the crazy one!!?? ....... I'll maintain that we ALL are!

We do it - how ever & what ever it is that we do, because we want to do so.

However, there are many aspects of the work which I can & will do, & I'll see that it's done right & comes out looking like she did "as new" ... & I'll KNOW what's what, rather than buying someone else's problems & unknowns!!

Anyway, enough of th soapbox - I'm doing it, so get over it! .... here are some new pix last Sunday befoer the "monsoon" hit us here in SoCal!







... more .....

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 02:26 AM

... continued ....






... more ......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 02:45 AM

... continued ....





... more ......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 02:57 AM

... continued ....







... and "The Twins" in our tiny 18'-0" x 17'-6" garage - boxes at far left are the 914 parts collection, then the "Red Racer" courtesy of SOB Racing/"Sawyer or Brisco Racing" - Mike Sawyer & Barry Brisco, after the rear suspension folded under & damaged the consoles & center section of the car - but left me with usable F&R clips, decklids, floor section, etc. - my 73 914S is on the right - plus misc. garage "stuffage" throughout & above:




... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:05 AM

... continued ....

Another shot of the Red (ex-)Racer parts shell -




... and of my interior -





... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:09 AM

... continued ....






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:23 AM

... continued ....

Rust spots & bubbles top-side -




.

Note the white Bondo at the rust bubble below, which was supposed to have been ground-out & "Leaded" back in in the 1980 Rust-oration, for which I was charged, but obviously NOT done properly! .. also a small bubble under the sail vinyl which is hard to see - sorry for the quality, but I was using my Lo-Rez cellphone camera to get pic files small enough to post here, & was losing light & fighting time with the rain coming in mid-afternoon!





... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:34 AM

... continued ....






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:41 AM

... continued ....






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:45 AM

... continued ....






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 03:52 AM

... continued ....






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 04:07 AM

... continued ....

The nefarious & mysterious underbody rust holing on pass side - driver side OK -






... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 04:13 AM

... continued ....





Prior Targa Top refinish has started to peel, so it will be stripped & redone -




... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 04:22 AM

... continued ....




A couple of detail shots of the "original" Riviera Alloy Wheels on my 914 when I bought it, including the Riviera logo on the bullet center caps, & although they're dirty - they're not corroded, but a rare brushed aluminum finish. I purchased a set of 5 Fuchs 2L Forged Alloy Wheels & will have Al Reed restore them for me, to put on post-resto, along with new lug bolts (still available) & a set of NOS center caps.




... more .......

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 04:43 AM

... continued ....

OE Color, Chassis No., VIN & Build Date info.





BTW - the Gold or Bronze Metallic was the color it was when I bought it in Dec. 75, & a repaint by either the PO/OO or dealer, Copper Metallic was mine in 8/76 & current color in 5/80.

Through my research & examining the physical evidence on my 914, I've been able to confirm that it was in fact originally factory fitted with the full Appearance & Performance Groups' options, including the "mysteriously missing":

1. Fog Lights/dash-switch (wires cut behind horns, evidence of mounting bracket once installed, clean hole in dash & facing where switch was installed);

2. Center Console & Gauges (under dash & floor mount holes were used, screw inserts under dash, elec. harness connections at tunnel, taco plate with oil temp. sender & wiring still in place, etc.);

3. Fuchs 2L Wheels (BO Recall not performed & shown in PCNA's records as still outstanding, which applied specifically to the Fuchs 2L Alloys only).

Additionally, this Dec. 1972 "914S" Porsche+Audi (USA) advertisement clearly indicated all these were "included options", as did the early-73 MY Porsche+Audi 12 pg. sales brochure for the 914 model - both of which I have in hand.





... that's all for now! ///////

Posted by: type47 Jan 21 2010, 10:11 AM

Even though built in 72, it would be a Model Year 73 car although I always had the impression that the factory took the month of August off for vacation and would guess the number is a "9" for when production started again after vacation.

Posted by: Tom_T Jan 21 2010, 12:54 PM

Jim - IIRC July is the European (& Brit?) month for summer "Holiday", & part is usually used to retool as needed for heavy industrial, & auto model year change overs. Gustl, Sir Andy & some of the other Euro types on here can probably confirm that.

Mine is definitely a 1973 MY, as denoted by the 473 of the VIN & I'm betting that it was 8/72, & there are many others built in 8/72, as discussed below, but with a twist!?.

I've posted the "8" or "9" build date question at the Originality & History forum & it will be interesting how folks weigh in there:
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=103085

It seems more likely that there would be an incomplete or partially punched dot in the "8" - rather than some random "extra dot" punched in a "9" .....

.... This sounds like the Florida "Hanging Chad" dilemma!

However, the mystery deepens, as you'll see in the above O&H topic on the build date, in that there appears to be out of order VINs on at least 3 - 1973 2Ls built in Aug. & Sept. 1972, including mine - which are documented at that link, but summarized as follows:

4732901102 - built 9/72 (lives in Anaheim Hills CA near me, formerly in OR &/or ID)

4732901650 - built 8/72 (lives outside of Atlanta with ME733 on here)

4732901954 - built 8/72 ?? (mine in Orange CA)

So - did VW-Porsche actually build 914's out of VIN order in early 1972 for the 1973 MY (&/or any other time)?
... or is the 01102 VIN sticker's date wrong?
... or something else?

I'd ask PCNA what their records & Kardex on my 914 says, but they're so F'ed-up that it would be totally unreliable, as discussed earlier in this thread & on another regarding my COA problems at the O&H Forum.

When I was initially checking with PCNA's Customer Care Dept. on whether or not my HO (battery/fuel lines) & BO (Fuchs 2L Alloy Wheels) Recalls were ever done on my 914, their gal there said that:

1. It was first sold in Sept. 1973 - over a year after it was built & highly unlikely with the 2.0s being such a hot seller in 73 & 74!

... BTW - she also said it looked like a 9/72 build date on the Kardex microfilm, but after looking at my sticker, it's easy to see how that could have been misread as a 9 rather than 8, when the Kardex was filled out by hand at the factory.

2. That the sale was in Connecticut - not California, as my registration indicated!

... BTW - my initial Calif Registration from 12/26/75 indicated 11/9/72 as the first sold date in CA, which PCNA supposedly did change after I emailed a pic of the reg. card.

3. In my ongoing COA battles with them, PCNA insists on 2 separate COA's & my 3rd request to have them correct it - that "for my 914 only" apparently - that the #31 interior is "Black" - not the actual Beige as on my car & despite the fact that several other COAs which I've found online correctly list #11 as Black & as both #11 & #31 are listed in the period documentation for Porsche+Audi dealers in the 1970-76 MYs.

This is also a side discussion with pix of those documents at the above noted Build Date Question link to the O&H Forum.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 18 2010, 06:10 PM

A few more rust assessment pix from mid-Feb. - last time I could have the 914 out to work on it without rain or the wife's honey-do list interfering ....

Pass Longs & minor rust issues at jack tube/support & rear sill support area:





More next post & then some others coming after this weekend.

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 18 2010, 06:19 PM

Rust damage dug out behind Driver Door below sail:




is that white rubbery plastic stuff I found between the body skind in the "hole" here????

... couple more of this spot at next post ....

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 18 2010, 06:26 PM

... and more ....




... next post with last 2 pix of this spot before ....

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 18 2010, 06:30 PM

.... pix of same spot with measurements before I took a screwdriver to it for reference .....




^ Good shot Tom!!??

... Sunny weekend coming up - wifey leave me to my 914 pleeeeez!

Posted by: Dave_Darling Mar 19 2010, 12:28 AM

Yes, all the time. We've had several other posts about this phenomenon in recent months.


The white stuff you noticed may very well be factory seam sealer.

--DD

Posted by: RobW Mar 19 2010, 06:49 AM

Get 'er done!

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 19 2010, 02:31 PM

Dave - that's what's left after I dug out it in there solid to see if rust was below, which it was as seen in the pix.

Could that be the filler stuff that they injected into some/all 914 body cavities?
.......... I think their trade name for it began with a "P" IIRC
... or what dealers injected as rust proofing?
....... mine has dealer undercoating applied to the pan, but seems odd to fill for an originally CA sold new 914!

... & how would one tell the difference between the factory injected vs. aftermarket stuff? ... if you can tell??

Whichever it was - obviously it did NOT work!

Posted by: Tom_T Mar 19 2010, 02:54 PM

Thanx for the encouragement Rob - but with my limited skill set & tool bin, space, time, etc. - I'm not going to tackle this body work (rust & accident repairs).

So - since it's currently not running nor registered to take it around to shops - I'm trying to assess & get enough pix to see what needs done, & then take those around to get a body shop that knows 914s which does EXCL CW level work to do it for me - preferably in my local SoCal area & with a Cellette Bench to pull this sucker out!! ... All reccos, references & inquiries welcome!

Then I myself can do detail work, parts restoration/replacement, dis/re-assembly, etc. on it before/afterwords, & be the "project manager" to direct everything that needs outsourced!

And before any more young buck yahoos here want to get on & diss me for not doing the work myself, or question my sanity - do NOT! You're not my wife, I'm cutting the checks - not you, & I know the limits of my skill set, tool bin, tiny garage, lack of major shop equipment, training/experience, time, etc. to do this type of work - all of which would cost me more than sending it out to be done right the FIRST time. But just because some folks separate the $5-10k for outside paint & bodywork as $5-10+k of shop equipment - doesn't mean that you're not upside down either!

Short & simple - I want it done right & purr-fect to an as-original/as-new state as I can get it, & yes - it will be several years before values catch-up to the costs to do so. At 57-58 I'm not looking to make a 2nd career/hobby of ongoing restorations to justify buying all that shit, & don't need the arguments from the wife on "you're getting what"!? My goal is to get to enjoy it again before I'm too old & decrepit to do so!!!!

However, CONSTRUCTIVE & HELPFUL comments are ALWAYS welcome!

Posted by: Tom_T Jun 1 2010, 03:24 AM

Well, I think I may have figured out how I got rust eating away at the underpan at the passenger side steering rack strut, after it went into storage "clean & rust free" in May 85, after a rustoration 3 years earlier!

In looking through my old service records from the late 70's & early 80's - I noticed that I had the window washer fluid tack replaced because it had cracked & was leaking, as well as a couple of other times the hoses were replaced for leaking. In addition, as I've been stripping the old gal down for the resto, I've found that under the shrunken cowl seals were rusted through at the joints.

So those 2 sources of water/washer fluid down into the bottom of the fuel tank compartment below the gas tank, eventually ate its way through over the 25 years sitting unchecked in storage in my garage!

The other unexpected rust problem was on the engine firewall & ledge - where my early engine lid drip tray (without the longitudinal ribs adding rigidity) warped between the front 2 end & middle mount ppoints, allowing twin waterfalls down onto the heat/sound pad on the firewall, whose open backed sisal held the moisture neatly against the firewall & engine shelf to also eat away at those areas over time.

The past 25 years of neglect didn't help the situation either - letting things go unchecked & unremedied for so long!

So I guess that adds two more suspect areas & causes to check when one is evaluating a 914 for purchase!

RobW & others - I'm leaning more to the self-help solution, & expanding my skills & tool bin to accomplish this rustoration & body repair work - or at least more parts of it than I originally intended to do!
... I'd need to det a MIG/TIG Welder & learn welding though!

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:06 PM

The following pix posts are some more condition evaluation pix added for the "Tremendous Trio" of Andy, Kent & Jim FYI, & we'll talk & get together here soon ....

(Other prior pix started at my post #62.)

Porsche Tech Svc Bulletin Fuel Pump Relocation & rust thru at Steering rack R strut beyond:




Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf Rusted at pix:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:13 PM

Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf Rusted at pix - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:18 PM

Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf Rusted at pix - continued:

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:21 PM

Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf Rusted at pix - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:36 PM

Battery Tray (removed), Support & Inner Wheelwell/Sidewall Area:








> looks like there may be right rear long rust issues below the above & following posts pix rust thru holes?


... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 09:58 PM

Battery Tray (removed), Support & Inner Wheelwell/Sidewall Area pix - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 10:09 PM

More Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf at Right/Pass Side Rusted at pix - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 10:17 PM

More Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf at Right/Pass Side Rusted at pix - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 10:29 PM

More Lower Firewall & Engine Shelf at Right/Pass Side Rusted at pix - continued:








... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 10:38 PM

Tunnel Rust @ Access Ports:






Firewall Reinforcement Plate at Clutch Cable per Porsche Tech Svc Bulletin (TSB) & Kit:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 10:55 PM

Rear Trunk Floor Rust Wire Wheeled & Temporary Coated with Wurth Zinc Rich Primer:
















... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 11:06 PM

Rear Trunk Floor Rust Wire Wheeled & Temporary Coated with Wurth Zinc Rich Primer - continued:






Pedal Area:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 11:18 PM

Pedal Area & Driver Floor Pan with Orig L80E Paint over Tar Pad - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 11:36 PM

Pedal Area & Driver Floor Pan with Orig L80E Paint over Tar Pad - continued:




Passenger Floor Pan with Orig L80E Paint over Tar Pad:






Pass Rear Door Jamb with top rust spots:




... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 5 2022, 11:54 PM

Pass Front Door Jamb & Cowl Joint beyond, & Pass Sill:












... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 12:03 AM

Pedal Area & Driver Floor Pan with Orig L80E Paint over Tar Pad - continued:








... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 12:18 AM

Tunnel Clutch Tube Fix - Not Sure if this was an official TSB - But will want tube rewelded & reinforced inside the tunnel, & these tunnel-side cut welded/patched closed:






Front Wall with Driver Side Crash Damage:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 12:27 AM

Front Wall & Back Braces etc with Driver Side Crash Damage - continued:








^ Front Wall Hole Plugs


... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 12:43 AM

Driver Rear Door Jamb with top rust spots:








... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 12:54 AM

Battery Tray before removal pix:








Bottom of Driver/Left Front Fender/Side Panel @ Driver Door - Rust Spots:




... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 01:12 AM

Pass Rear Door Jamb & Beltline with top rust spots - continued:






Right Long with Damaged Jack Tube (have new L & R Tubes & Braces) & Rust at 1 Triangle Brace:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 01:31 AM

Right Long with Damaged Jack Tube (have new L & R Tubes & Braces) & Rust at 1 Triangle Brace & Long Bottom - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 01:50 AM

Driver Rear Door Jamb & Beltline with top rust spots - continued:








Rear Trunk Left Hinge Plate Broken & Needs Replacement (have L & R Hinge Plates):






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 02:01 AM

Left Long with Less Damaged Jack Tube (have new L & R Tubes & Braces) & Some Rust:













... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 02:11 AM

Left Long with Less Damaged Jack Tube (have new L & R Tubes & Braces) & Fuel Evap Control Hoses Supports, Some Rust - continued:












... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 02:38 AM

Right Long with Damaged Jack Tube (have new L & R Tubes & Braces) & Rust at 1 Triangle Brace & Long Bottom - continued:




Rear Trunk Left Hinge Plate Broken & Needs Replacement (have L & R Hinge Plates) - continued:





Rear Trunk Right Hinge Plate May Need Replacement (have L & R Hinge Plates) - continued:




Rust Spots @ Windshield to Cowl near Wipers:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 02:52 AM

L & R Cowl to Fender Joints Rust Problems:







... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 03:00 AM

L & R Cowl to Fender Joints Rust Problems - continued:










... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 03:11 AM

L & R Cowl to Fender Joints Rust Problems - continued:






Front Trunk Lid Seal Channel Rust & Accident Damage:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 03:20 AM

Front Trunk Lid Seal Channel Rust & Accident Damage - continued:












... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 03:32 AM

Front Trunk Lid Seal Channel Rust & Accident Damage - continued:












... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 03:48 AM

Front Trunk Lid Seal Channel Rust & Accident Damage - continued:






Passenger Rear Door Jamb & Beltline with top rust spots - continued:








... continued .... later ...

Posted by: sb914 Jul 6 2022, 05:27 AM

Posted by: SO.O.C914er Jul 6 2022, 06:49 AM

Looks like you have some work to do today Tom get going!! Rust never sleeps just ask Neil Young!!

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 06:35 PM

Guys -

I'm just using my original topic started back when I joined 914world to upload some of my 2009-10 condition & resto evaluation pix for the" trio" to review - hopefully to get my resto going again in their shops (it never was meant to be a "me doing it at home project" - except some small parts & details).


>>>> So to continue with pix for Andy, Kent & Jim ....

Right Long with Wiring - not sure what this wire was for, but I think that it was a Hans fix for something - continued:

> UPDATE - OK I think that this is the wiring for the Fuel Pump Relocation to the Front Steering Rack Niche, per the Porsche TSB that Hans did after I Vapor Locked for 3 hours out at Blythe CA on the way back from a HOT August `77 or `78 water skiing trip with the guys. ----v




Left Long full shot:






Rear End Crash Damage & Details:



^ the odd stuff stuck on parts is just some plastic sheeting that was covering the car years ago that stuck, but not a big deal since the paint will all be stripped for rustoration/repairs/etc. & repaint back to the original L80E.





... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 6 2022, 06:59 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 07:15 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:








Battery Tray before removed:




... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 07:39 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:







^---- Note that the Rear Trunk Floor's Chassis Number stamping is in the damaged & folded area, which stamping will need to be preserved in the resto ----v




... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 07:50 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 07:54 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 08:03 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 08:08 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: JeffBowlsby Jul 7 2022, 08:09 PM

Thats painful to see Tom. You going back to L80E? It wil be stunning with the tan interior.

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 08:13 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Tom_T Jul 7 2022, 08:20 PM

Rear End Crash Damage Details - continued:






... continued ....

Posted by: Dave_Darling Jul 8 2022, 10:14 PM

I kinda hate to ask this question, but....

How important is it for you to have this particular car? There are enough issues that I can see that you would be financially better off getting another 914 versus trying to repair this one.

That said, everything is fixable if you have the time and money.

--DD

Posted by: yerpants Sep 22 2022, 05:32 PM

I would agree with Dave here but I seem to recall that this is a 914S isn’t it? Definitely worth throwing some money at. I was convinced they didn’t even exist but I’m no subject matter expert like the OP. Here I’ll prove it. I vote for a complete frame off restoration. See!

But then there’s a really good idea. Why not have the community help show you which direction to go in. Just start a Poll! Good luck!

Posted by: nathanxnathan Sep 22 2022, 06:48 PM

Judging by Cairo's (Michael) 6's build thread, the plan is to locate nos pieces for every panel of the car and build up from the center tunnel — unless that has perhaps a dent or ding in which case it too would be nos.

Posted by: Cairo94507 Sep 23 2022, 06:34 AM

That's a solid plan, but I have to admit, my car was no where near this bad to start with. I had minor rust on my chassis. Accident damage was also minor, with poor repairs when these cars were worth nothing. That was why we replaced most of the panels.

I agree with Dave, look for another chassis and save yourself lots of grief and money.