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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Do matching numbers really matter?
Posted by: Panamericana Apr 19 2009, 02:23 PM
All things being equal (and I know they never really are), would you choose a matching numbers 1.8 or a car where the PO has switched out the 1.8 for a 2.0? Does an engine switch like this devalue the car significantly?
Posted by: Dave_Darling Apr 19 2009, 02:57 PM
IMHO, it does not for 95+% of the 914s out there. In fact, in most cases, a 1.8 with a 2.0 swap would be worth more than the 1.8 was.
There are exceptions: Big-$$ concours winners, "all original survivors" etc.
To my way of thinking, the rest of the car has to be just about perfect (and unmolested) for "matching numbers" to matter.
Others may disagree.
--DD
Posted by: naro914 Apr 19 2009, 03:29 PM
IMO, matching numbers is in the eye of the beholder, so to speak. The funny thing is that rarely ever hear the phrase "matching numbers" when referring to Porsches, unlike muscle cars.
Personally, I would rather have a really nice, well sorted car I could drive, regardless of "numbers", but then again, I have issues with people that buy cars just to make their garage look pretty...
Posted by: r_towle Apr 19 2009, 04:10 PM
At this point in time, number matching 356's have become more valuable than non-number matching....but not by more than maybe 20%-25% more.
356's have number matching chassis, motor, trans...and all removable panels...the doors, hood and deck lids also have numbers stamped on them...There is alot more to a number matching 356 than meets the eye..
Apples for apples, a numbers matching 356 is selling for more.
Someday it might matter, but I probably wont own a 914 when that day comes...its not gonna happen in the near future...unless you buy a perfect numbers matching 2.0 liter (1973) or a number matching 914/6.
At the end of the day, its only YOU who will know or care..photoshop can and does change COA documents just to win a show...
Thankfully, car shows are not about winning for me...just about being there and drooling.
Rich
Posted by: mikez Apr 19 2009, 05:32 PM
Matching numbers....blow me. 
The engine does not match the serial/vin number on the car....these aren't Chevies.
The ONLY way you can know if the engine was delivered with the car is by paying Porsche for the information. They can be forged, they are often wrong and most of the time don't even list the trans number.
BTDT....kill me now.
I have a COA that tells me that I have the right engine for my 914/6. I can go to Kinko's and make a better certificate.
Posted by: naro914 Apr 19 2009, 05:51 PM
Heck, with Huey, not only does the engine not match, but neither does the front, to the back, to the middle to the...... you get the picture. And I wouldn't trade either of my 914's for anything.
Posted by: Panamericana Apr 19 2009, 06:48 PM
Heck, with Huey, not only does the engine not match, but neither does the front, to the back, to the middle to the...... you get the picture. And I wouldn't trade either of my 914's for anything.
I have only recently learned the phrase "matching numbers" and I learned it in the context of looking at older Porsches! I have noticed that some sellers list this as a selling attribute on their cars. I can see why matching numbers (or, perhaps more accurately, original numbers) would have a certain appeal, as there is an historical element to these old cars that is part of what makes them interesting as compared to, say, a Boxster.
Posted by: Pat Garvey Apr 19 2009, 06:52 PM
Matching numbers....blow me.
The engine does not match the serial/vin number on the car....these aren't Chevies. The ONLY way you can know if the engine was delivered with the car is by paying Porsche for the information. They can be forged, they are often wrong and most of the time don't even list the trans number.
BTDT....kill me now.
I have a COA that tells me that I have the right engine for my 914/6. I can go to Kinko's and make a better certificate.
Regardless, when your hiers wish to make big money at Barrett-Jackson, better be sure you have that COA - right or wrong. These ain't throw away cars anymore. Get your shit in order.
Have a problem with the COA - take it up with Porsche directly. This IS important folks. Could affect your old age & ability to live a long prosperous life. Don't take it lightly & take Porsche to task.
Posted by: mikez Apr 19 2009, 07:56 PM
What I'm trying to get across in my usual hammhanded way, is that "matching numbers" is not an accurate term. Funny how the 356 crowd uses it as well. Being proper and correct doesn't allways follow form and function....
Matching numbers refers to cars that have the same engine and chassis number....like Chevies. Porsche didn't do that. Matter of fact, many DMVs used early Porsche engine numbers as the VIN# on the pink slip.
Change the engine you need a new pink.....also many when left over from the previous year got registered as a diff year than the model.
My 58 from New Jersey had paperwork stating it was a 59. I used the COA with the original engine to fix it with CA DMV.....
Posted by: JRust Apr 19 2009, 09:58 PM
I am curious to know if my LE will drop much in value. It first of all has a salvadge title (which was bulshit as it had minor front fender damage & that is all). It also had the motor changed out to a 73 2.0 instead. I have found a 74 GA engine that is only 19 numbers off my original engine. So I am putting it in instead. At least it will be year specific.
So I will have all the work documented by pics. Do you think that will make up for the salvadge title. Just curious as I do plan to sell the creamsicle when it's finished 
Posted by: boxstr Apr 19 2009, 10:48 PM
Photos will help when selling a car with a branded title. Personally if I am an end user it doesnt really matter it is more about the car and the condition and price.
CCLINB&JME
Posted by: mojorisen914 Apr 19 2009, 11:06 PM
with everyone above. Matching Numbers, Numbers Correct to me are just for bragging rights. Most of us on here have improved our vehicles for either safety or reliability reasons.
Since I only own 1 914 right now; I prefer it has a "Porsche" motor and tranny. But lets' face it; a 1.7, 1.8, and a 2.0 will only let you go so fast. With that said, my next teener will have a power plant that is not original to the car whether it be a 3.2, Subie, or V8.
Most teener owners aren't caught up with concourse cars; we just like to have a teener to drive.
Just me 1/2 cents worth.
Posted by: Rav914 Apr 20 2009, 12:04 AM
I think it's a way of stating the car has been well cared for. With good maintenance, there's a better chance the motor and tranny are original to the car. That's what I take away from the saying.
Posted by: dw914er Apr 20 2009, 12:22 AM
A chevelle ss, yes it matters
914s, not as much.
Posted by: bembry Apr 20 2009, 08:20 AM
A chevelle ss, yes it matters
914s, not as much.
Guys used to think the same thing about Chevelles vs other "classic" cars of earlier eras.
Posted by: DBCooper Apr 20 2009, 09:20 AM
The original question was if non-matching numbers devalue the car significantly. So fess up folks, when you bought the car you now own did you look to see if the numbers matched? Anyone? What's the percentage of current owners who even know if their numbers match? Or an even more basic question, how many current owners even know HOW to check if their numbers, all the numbers, match?
And in the unlikely instance that you did check the numbers, did the non-matching numbers cause you to make a lower offer for it?
Maybe that should be a poll. I'd be curious to know the results, but I suspect that that apart from the 2 percent CW contingent the answer to the question will be no. Matching numbers themselves do not significantly increase or decrease the value of your car.
Posted by: naro914 Apr 20 2009, 09:30 AM
The thought of matching numbers has never crossed my mind in any 914 I've owned - now counting 4. Maybe because our plans for the cars was never to be a collector perfect car, but it never mattered. Didn't even think about it when I bought the 69 911 I recently got. All I've cared about is rust, upgrades or lack of, overall condition, etc.
So...back to the OP - all things being equal, I wouldn't really have cared.
Posted by: Rav914 Apr 20 2009, 11:15 AM
I'll answer a little more directly.
First, I always check to see if the engine and transmission are what should be on the car and if the numbers fall in range. If it's not correct, I'll question the owner and see what's up.
Secondly, yes it matters. Let's make an example of two Bumblebee 914's. Both are equally in great shape. One has the original motor, the other another '74 2.0. The numbers matching car will be worth more in the long run.
My .02
Posted by: dw914er Apr 20 2009, 11:23 AM
The original question was if non-matching numbers devalue the car significantly. So fess up folks, when you bought the car you now own did you look to see if the numbers matched? Anyone? What's the percentage of current owners who even know if their numbers match? Or an even more basic question, how many current owners even know HOW to check if their numbers, all the numbers, match?
And in the unlikely instance that you did check the numbers, did the non-matching numbers cause you to make a lower offer for it?
Maybe that should be a poll. I'd be curious to know the results, but I suspect that that apart from the 2 percent CW contingent the answer to the question will be no. Matching numbers themselves do not significantly increase or decrease the value of your car.
my numbers match
Posted by: Thomas J Bliznik Apr 20 2009, 11:57 AM
My numbers match. 
When I purchased my 914 I didn't know squat about matching #'s. I was lucky to find a CA rust free well optioned car with everything intact. Porsche god's were smiling down on me.
What I believe now, it's important to have this documentation as our cars grow in value. Getting the proper information direct from Porsche's office is a concern. 
Our 914's will follow the 356 trend and proper documentation is money in your pocket with ease in selling to the big buck guys.
Tom
Attached image(s)
Posted by: dw914er Apr 20 2009, 01:32 PM
A chevelle ss, yes it matters
914s, not as much.
Guys used to think the same thing about Chevelles vs other "classic" cars of earlier eras.
good point. I guess as of now numbers don't mean as much, but that can always change.
I would say if you have a numbers correct motor, keep it. Maybe run another motor (like a 2.0 instead of the 1.7), but keep the stock one in case you ever sell
and tom, I loved that image
Posted by: tod914 Apr 20 2009, 03:18 PM
On an average nice daily driver, it shouldn't matter too much. On a concours car it will effect the value. Seen an instance on a sale where the car was thought to of been an original 2.0, when in fact it was a 1.8. The seller once he found out, was generous to refund the new owner several thousand dollars to make him happy. Accurate documentation of the cars history will add to the value to a collector. Will certianlly be significant as these cars continue to apprectiate in value.
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