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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ SOT - To Bus or Not To Bus
Posted by: seanery Apr 27 2009, 08:55 AM
After watching the super-cool VW Bus in Bullrun the last few months, then being nudged on by a member posting a link to some busses for sale - I'm seriously considering a bus. To keep the budget/cool factor evened out I'm thinking a 13 window walk through. I like the bigger Porsche Cups or Twists, a 2.0+ type IV, disk brakes, nice but simple interior, maybe a 901.
Here's the rub...I think I'd want it to be my main driver. Now, I'm not home too much. The last 2 1/2 years have been 300+ days on the road per year - and the next 18 months I'll be in Europe & Asia. So, it's not like I'm gonna be putting 15k miles per year on it. Plus, I have the 951 still. The Durango may be sold (as of last night).
But, it would need some sort of rustproofing - or, could it be powdercoated then cleared so it looked like nice shiny paint, but with a hard, durable finish? 
I've seen a couple of A/C systems for the early busses, but they aren't very elegant, seat heaters are probably a must - what about real heat? Are the heat exchangers enough? For some reason Gas Heaters scare me, is that a justified fear?
Anyway, here are a couple of color choices I'm playing with.
Tell me what you think...I know this is a bit unconventional - but I am unconventional 
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Posted by: sww914 Apr 27 2009, 10:23 AM
Go for it!
To powdercoat a car it must fit in the oven. Not many places have a VW van sized oven.
Posted by: Wilhelm Apr 27 2009, 10:38 AM
au contraire mon frere! You can cure powdercoat outside the oven with portable heat sources, but it take some skill to do a nice job.
http://store.columbiacoatings.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=INFRARED&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3Dall%26searchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/HTN/SearchResult.html%26category%3DINFR
or
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=404&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=459&iSubCat=460&iProductID=404
By the way, my vote is for the orange one 3 over and 3 down!
Posted by: kwales Apr 27 2009, 10:44 AM
Ever drive one?
If the engine is stock, it's about 30-40 hp working very hard to push a living room through the air.
Can we say Sloooooowwwww!
Not to mention the theft potential.
Posted by: jmill Apr 27 2009, 10:53 AM
I had a 63 Kombi. I put in a pumped up 1914, removed the reduction boxes, lowered it front and rear and put in a set of Safari's. It went very fast and looked great. I see in your pics that they're all lowered. I have to say that the ride is lousy when lowered. You sit right over the front tire. It's a kidney buster. If you get one don't drop it that far if you plan to drive it longer distances.
That said, I'd love to pick up a double cab. I love them things.
As far as heat the heater boxes work. It does take a bit to warm up. You can't jump in and go in the winter. You will want to install an inline fan for the front defog. The hot air doesn't have any force behind it and it takes forever for the windows to clear.
Posted by: Cupomeat Apr 27 2009, 10:56 AM
Everyone should drive a bus for a while.
It gives you a perspective that few modern car drivers have, in that you learn to conserve energy (or at least be aware of what it takes).
Every downgrade, even a 1% is somewhere to store up energy from and every hill, no matter if you never noticed it there before while driving, is a place to slow you down.
I suppose you get the same effect while riding a bike.
Go for it, get a 80+hp motor in it and enjoy. They aren't depreciating in value anymore.
Posted by: hcdmueller Apr 27 2009, 10:57 AM
Go for it. I have a bay window double cab that I daily drive and I love it. Not quite in the same league as what you are contemplating but still a bus. Eventually I will get time to really fix it up. If you have the time or the money to strip the body down and rustproof it correctly you won't have any issues with it in your lifetime. Any orange color combo looks great on the split buses. From what I understand Jake Raby has some good engine kits for the early buses because they are so much lighter that the later ones. If you get a type 4 in it the heater boxes are okay for heat. I have a gas heater I am going to put in my doublecab. I need instant heat for the winters in Germany. That is something the heater boxes just won't provide. You can get newer gas heaters that are very safe and put out massive amounts of heat.
I am trying my hardest not to buy a split window myself. My wife doesn't want any more cars. Maybe if I am sneaky...
Posted by: type2man Apr 27 2009, 11:19 AM
I've got a 67 westy with a type 4, a 60 singlecab and a 67 beetle also with a type 4. I drive them all the time but cant cruise as fast as I do in my 914. Drive a type 2 for a while and see if you feel comfortable in one. Yes, you can make it fast but there's a limit to making a breadbox fast. Personally I love em and I dont care about cruising in the right lane at 60 mph. Here are some shots of Charles Slaters bus. Basically a type2 with full custom suspension, and Boxster running gear. It's automatic too and has A/C. Here's some 
for ya: 
Posted by: McMark Apr 27 2009, 11:31 AM
Unless you use 'drop spindles'. Maintaining suspension travel is the key, and a drop with stock spindles is definitely harsh. But 'drop spindles' are available and will maintain a stock ride quality.
Posted by: jmill Apr 27 2009, 12:02 PM
Unless you use 'drop spindles'. Maintaining suspension travel is the key, and a drop with stock spindles is definitely harsh. But 'drop spindles' are available and will maintain a stock ride quality.
I'm sure your right. I kept my stock spindles and got a Bus Boys select-a-drop. Looking back the drop spindles are a better way to go. I also had to throw on a beefy sway bar so I didn't rub going around every corner. If you get the drop spindles and don't get too crazy I bet it would ride a whole lot better than mine did.
Posted by: Dr Evil Apr 27 2009, 01:13 PM
What, no mention of a corvair power plant? Look for the thread titled "Doc's trany waggin"
Posted by: seanery Apr 27 2009, 01:36 PM
no corvair!
I've got a 2.2T motor in the garage, though
Posted by: seanery Apr 27 2009, 03:28 PM
Sweet Ride Doc!
I like the look of the Corvair motor and the flat fan, it looks like it will cool efficiently and it's a tidy package. (funny after I just said "no corvair!" in the previous post) 
Posted by: aircooledtechguy Apr 27 2009, 04:38 PM
I have a '66 E-Z Camper that is 2.0L type-4 powered with a freeway flier trans and stock redux boxes. It cruises down the hwy nicely at 70+ around 4K RPMs. I'm planning to dump the stock trans and rear suspension in favor of a 1970 bus IRS and a late 70s 6 rib trans (or possibly a 901). If you build it with some power they are very capable of nice comfortable speeds on the open road. I've had mine up to about 95mph with ease but I'll be honest; with stock brakes I don't like to.
Driving an old bus is a completely different experience that must be experienced to appreciate. You're not driving a car, you're driving an icon. Everyone waves, flashes peace signs and gives thumbs-ups as you go down the road no matter how it looks. . . You meet the nicest folks in an old bus. . . I love mine.
Posted by: DBCooper Apr 27 2009, 05:24 PM
They're collectable. You'll really love it. For about six months.
Posted by: zonedoubt Apr 27 2009, 05:25 PM
Is the ear protection hanging on the steering wheel necessary when the engine is inside the cabin?
Posted by: Cap'n Krusty Apr 27 2009, 07:10 PM
I drove the Thunder Bus ('73 Bay Window) for 21 years, 10 of 'em with a 2.4 E and a chillcast 901 tranny with 914 gearing. Other than the fact that the 901 ate a few diffs because we habitually abused it, it was one of the best vehicles I've ever owned. If I were to do it over, I'd use a later 901 with a bigger diff and diff bearings. It had 911 seats, a center seat and a bed platform in the back, largish speakers under the platform, smaller ones in an old A/C pod on the ceiling, nice tunes, it was too fast for safety, comfortable, got a little better fuel mileage than the T4 power it once had, had dynamite heat, and was relatively quiet at cruising speeds. My sole complaint? After you passed everyone on a twisty 2 lane road, you had to pull over and let 'em all by so you could do it again!
At a little under 6 ft tall, I found a splittie difficult to drive at age 30, and it didn't get better as I got older. The seating position is less than ideal, the noise level is high, the suspension is primitive, and they're SLOW. You're hunched over the steering wheel, no matter how you move around, and that's exhausting.
The Cap'n
Posted by: type2man Apr 27 2009, 07:45 PM
Is the ear protection hanging on the steering wheel necessary when the engine is inside the cabin?
That's for the rear entertainment. It's for the kids to watch movies while mom is taking them to school(I'm dead serious). The engine had a lid and when it was running it made less noise than an aircooled engine. I think they ran it at the track in daytona or homestead and got it up to 125 mph
Posted by: type11969 Apr 27 2009, 08:52 PM
The bay I have now is way more comfortable than the split I had a while back. Definitely more quiet, but the westy interior helps. The vanagon seat help a lot too.
Not sure how big safety is on your priority list, but the front impact protection in the later bays is better (which may not be saying much) and the power brakes are a nice upgrade over a split.
Posted by: kwales Apr 28 2009, 08:08 AM
I really like my Vanagon.
Not as cool looking but it has 50/50 weight distribution and handles remarkably well....
Particularly if you get away from the 14 inch wheels and go to 15 or 16 inchers.
Tons of heat, great AC pours down from the ceiling, quiet, and comfortable on long drive. Has a weekender package in the rear that turns the rear seat into a full size bed.
Built like a tank to elimiate the front Seats O'Death problem. Saw a few photos from a VW test where it killed a Volvo station wagon in a 60km front end collision.
Did I mention the (expensive) Synchro 4 wheel drive version that would be great for rallying?
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Posted by: strawman Apr 28 2009, 04:33 PM
I say go for it!!!
In terms of VW buses, I've had a '66 with swapped-in 1600 from 1982-84, a '63 21-window rust bucket that I bought for parts (and scrapped in 1983 -- it would be worth saving today!), a '75 with 1800 TIV, an '81 diesel Vanagon Westy that I converted to 1.8 Golf gasoline engine, and an '86 Syncro Westy that I shoehorned a Subaru EJ22 engine in.
The '66 was fun because I was in High School and I was playing the whole Spiccoli thing, the '75 was my college driver that I sold to buy a Eurrail pass after graduation, and the '81 Westy was fun because my wife and I did our first Burning Man in it. I loved the Suby-powered Syncro Westy when I lived in Tahoe -- that thing rocked in the snow!!! -- but we sold it a few years ago when we moved down here to the flatlands of the Sacramento Valley.
Neither the Split nor the Bay Window was "roadworthy" by today's standards for a daily driver, but they were basically stock (the Split had had a header / turbo muffler). I never got around to changing the gearset in the converted diesel Westy, so it hummed on the freeway -- something like 4k at 65 mph. The Syncro Westy could pull 60 to 65 mph over the Donner Pass with the Suby engine, but it wasn't powerful enough to pull and most importantly safely stop the kart trailer -- so we bought a 3/4-ton Chevy Conversion Van a few years ago.
I also owned a '64 sunroof Bug (my first car), a '63 Bug parts car, a '66 Fastback and '59 Bug-based fiberglass Dune Buggy. In fact, when I was born my parents couldn't afford the hospital bill and had to sell their '55 Euro (semiphore-equipped) Bug. So VWs are in my blood. I'm currently comtemplating a '69 Squareback that'll put a crimp in my teener project, but my wife's friend will practically give it to us...
Posted by: maf914 Apr 29 2009, 12:00 PM
Here are some shots of Charles Slaters bus. Basically a type2 with full custom suspension, and Boxster running gear. It's automatic too and has A/C. Here's some
for ya: Great photos! Thanks.
I saw this bus in the Daytona Speedway paddock a few years ago. What a beauty! Very well done custom. It got as much attention from the fans as the racing cars. Too cool!
Posted by: markb Apr 29 2009, 04:27 PM
I drove the Thunder Bus ('73 Bay Window) for 21 years, 10 of 'em with a 2.4 E and a chillcast 901 tranny with 914 gearing. Other than the fact that the 901 ate a few diffs because we habitually abused it, it was one of the best vehicles I've ever owned. If I were to do it over, I'd use a later 901 with a bigger diff and diff bearings. It had 911 seats, a center seat and a bed platform in the back, largish speakers under the platform, smaller ones in an old A/C pod on the ceiling, nice tunes, it was too fast for safety, comfortable, got a little better fuel mileage than the T4 power it once had, had dynamite heat, and was relatively quiet at cruising speeds. My sole complaint? After you passed everyone on a twisty 2 lane road, you had to pull over and let 'em all by so you could do it again!
At a little under 6 ft tall, I found a splittie difficult to drive at age 30, and it didn't get better as I got older. The seating position is less than ideal, the noise level is high, the suspension is primitive, and they're SLOW. You're hunched over the steering wheel, no matter how you move around, and that's exhausting.
The Cap'n
After I bought the ThunderBus from the Cap'n, we re-bodied it with a dropped front end, which helped highway handling. The Cap'n's response to that was something to the effect of "you're not supposed to step DOWN into a bus!" It was a great vehicle, but I never got comfortable with sitting over the front wheels. The brakes needed updating to discs with a bigger motor, but stopped ok overall. I say go for it, and enjoy!
Posted by: pete-stevers Apr 29 2009, 06:59 PM
i would say go for it unless you have long wet winters like up here in BC.
i would really like to get a split panel for a promotional vehichle for our store
it would be very unique, and would get a whole lot of attention ...which is perfect for marketing the store....just got to get this idea past the brainstorming stage....
(we'll see what the boss says about yet another aircooled beast sitting around the farm)
Posted by: seanery Apr 29 2009, 07:36 PM
I've seen A LOT of panels on the samba - not too pricey!
Posted by: swood Apr 29 2009, 08:25 PM
I had a '79 Bus, auto trans. Man I miss it. Bulletproof, very smooth and comfortable ride. 
I saw a sweet one at the Seal Beach car show last weekend. It was the one that got "Foosed" on overhaulin. 23 window...
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Posted by: seanery Apr 30 2009, 08:09 AM
got any more pics of the Foosemobile? I forgot what that one looked like. I just remember watching them weld in the back 2 window frames.
Posted by: germanv82000 Apr 30 2009, 11:07 AM
Had a 71 bus, a 61 single cab and a 60 double cab. People kept bugging me to sel the two trucks and I caved in. Biggest mistake of my long car owning career. Now the kids have long since left home and I have the money to do them right but no haulers. Familiar story?
Posted by: McMark Apr 30 2009, 04:49 PM
got any more pics of the Foosemobile? I forgot what that one looked like. I just remember watching them weld in the back 2 window frames.
http://www.arcaudio.com/album/Overhaulin%20Projects/66%20VW%20Safari%20Bus%205-06/index.html
Posted by: seanery Apr 30 2009, 06:02 PM
yeah, that's a pretty damn cool bus!
Posted by: seanery Apr 30 2009, 06:36 PM
On a 1-10 scale how bad is the lift throttle oversteer?
Posted by: swood Apr 30 2009, 08:08 PM
Cool Mark. Now I don't have to upload the other 3 shots I took.
That's a sweet ride.
Looking at buses on CL, they don't look cheap at all. I can't believe how many $k you gotta drop for one of the early ones.
Posted by: type2man Apr 30 2009, 08:53 PM
On a 1-10 scale how bad is the lift throttle oversteer?
Well, this is not an issue on early type 2's because you take turns very carefully and very slowly . It's not much of a performace vehicle. I have 2 buses, one is a 67 westy and the other is a 60 singlecab. Check the pics below. My westy has 16x6 and 16x7 alloys, a 2.0 type 4 and a factory front swaybar and I've never tried to take a hard corner with it although it does manage to cruise at 70 mph. The singlecab has no swaybars and is a joy to drive on the expressway with crosswinds
Posted by: seanery Apr 30 2009, 09:33 PM
I've added Double Cabs to my list of vehicles to look for.
I've narrowed it down to 13, 15 & DC.
Here are some color options I'm looking at for DCs.
The blue over white would be a blue like the 67 Camaros.
The gray over white would be silver over white.
Whatya think?
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