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Posted by: Cire May 3 2009, 08:13 PM

I think its time to change the clutch and had some questions.

1 - Do you have to drop the entire Engine to do the change?

2 - Whats the quickest cheapest way to get it done?

3 - Should I drain the tranny oil or just drop, change and replace?

I realize that there are a lot of things that -should- be done, but I am one of the folks that has lost my job. I need to get the car back up and running for as little as possible. So changing syncros would be great, I might not have the funds to buy 1st and 2nd ($80 each?), but might not be possible. I love hearing the suggestions but the budget has to come first.

Thanks gang.

Eric

Posted by: r_towle May 3 2009, 08:23 PM

Jack up car and put on jack stands
Get jack under center rear of motor, just snug it up.
Remove negative cable from the battery
Remove the clutch cable.
Remove the speedo cable.
Remove the rear shifter bar.
Remove the wiring from the starter, and remove the starter.
Remove both rear tranny bolts that hold the tranny to the body.
using the jack that is under the motor, slowly lower the rear of the tranny.
REmove the muffler now that you can reach all the bolts easily.
Oh, remove the reverse electrical plug.
Remove the axles from the tranny side only.
Now remove all the remaining nuts that are holding the tranny to the motor.
With the tranny at a good angle downwards...pull it out and down.
It weighs about 75 lbs, but I can do this on my back if properly positioned.
Done.
Then you need to unbolt the pressure plate and remove it.
The clutch disk falls out now.

then put it all back together.

Rich

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider May 3 2009, 08:30 PM

It is possible to yank out the transaxle (drain it to save weight lifting it off) then with the engine well supported you have access to the clutch. I did mine with the engine out. In a way, it is easier to remove the whole unit since the top drivers side bolt for the transaxle is such a pain in the ar$$e to get off with the engine in. Only first and reverse gears are easy to work on, others are behind the middle plate and require you to separate the transaxle. New first gear parts can be more expensive than you think!
Good luck with the 914 and finding a new job

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider May 3 2009, 08:31 PM

EDIT -woops

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 3 2009, 08:31 PM

not too hard to do. Just messy.

Posted by: Cire May 3 2009, 08:45 PM

= ) I can deal with Messy. I just want to make sure I can handle the rest. I have changed a tranny in a vw bug before but not the 914. It sounds pretty straight forward.

Where is this top bolt that is hard to get to? Any secrets to get it out?

Thanks again everyone!!!

Eric

Posted by: Phoenix 914-6GT May 3 2009, 10:50 PM

I have a six and don't remember type IVs that well but I recall the top bolt that is a pain really isn't too bad if you have the right tools. It is one of the starter bolts and you need to have something on both sides to keep the bolt from turning while you take the nut out. I recall if it is on right the sheet metal aids in this but if it isn't you need to keep a wrench on it if you can.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 3 2009, 11:01 PM

Drain the tranny to save weight? Are you nuts? You're gonna save less than 5lbs out of about 80+/-. Top bolt hard? Nope. Irritating, maybe. Shoot the top bolts (in the engine compartment) with a good penetrant (WD 40 IS NOT a penetrant!), loosen the nuts, spin 'em off while keeping a little outward pressure on the bolt. BTW, a proper clutch job includes surfacing the flywheel and changing the 2 oil seals, as well as all the hard parts.

The Cap'n

Posted by: Todd Enlund May 4 2009, 12:20 AM

If yer gunna change the clutch without dropping the tranny, disconnect the #^&$%@ ground strap first... it will give you a few more inches of aft movement on the tranny.

Posted by: Cire May 4 2009, 09:31 AM

Thanks for the good info.

Where is the cheapest place to get a 914 clutch kit? If I am trying to save money is it cheaper to buy the clutch kit or only the parts I must replace? Tough one without knowing whats bad inside.

Eric

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 4 2009, 09:47 AM

Call GPR, (800) 321-5432. List members, good guys.

The Cap'n

Posted by: krazykonrad May 4 2009, 08:13 PM

When I dropped my engine and tranny, gravity disconnected the strap for me!

Posted by: Spoke May 5 2009, 05:02 AM

Changing the clutch isn't that bad of a job. I did mine like Rich describes. I would think that it would be much easier with the transmission out of the car. I didn't have any trouble with bolts or anything.

The only think I would add to Rich's description is to get a clutch alignment tool so the clutch plate is lined up with the engine when putting the pressure plate back on.

Oh, yeah, it is messy. Plan on throwing your clothes away afterwards.

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 09:57 AM

.... cough cough....

Well, everything is out, off and away and the only item left... Top Bolt. = ) I cant get a socket on it. My wrenches are to long to get in there. Shesh. I even lowered the thing a few inches but its a matter of getting a sock or wrench on there to get it off.

Can I weld another nut on it? Sure make it much simpler. Is there a market for these? = ) "Welded Bolt... Top Bolt"?

Eric

Posted by: gopack May 5 2009, 10:33 AM

I did it by following this http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_clutch_replace/914_clutch_replace1.htm from Pelican Parts. I also bought all the parts from them as a thank you to the support they give us enthusiasts. Trust me, if I can do it, ANYONE can!

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 10:51 AM

Look at the Pelican article, page 2 at figure 16. It describes the bolt which also holds the starter on. You use a 17 mm box/open on the nut from the engine compartment side. Should be no need to weld anything.

Probably worth reading the entire article just for drill.

Posted by: Derek Seymour May 5 2009, 10:58 AM

I just did my clutch this last weekend... what a difference ... GPR has them for a very reasonable price and they are great guys

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:04 PM

Its all apart!!! Here are a few pictures. What are your thoughts on the clutch, pressure plate and flywheel? Also the clutch almost looks concaved from the side. Like it was pulled in to far or something. Could that have been the failure? Anyone ever seen it happen that way before. Let me know if you need more pictures of the clutch.

Thanks again everyone. Group Think ROCKS!!!

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:10 PM

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:12 PM

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:13 PM

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:14 PM

Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2009, 12:24 PM

I think your problem is that huge oil leak you have!

Look at all the gunk on everything. Your clutch looks like it is soaked in oil.
Lubricants and friction surfaces don't usually mix that well.

Your flywheel is burnt from all the oil ...
Andy

Posted by: Derek Seymour May 5 2009, 12:35 PM

A new clutch kit will come with a pressure plate, clutch disk and throw out bearing and those should all be replaced. No reason to replace just one component, especially when you have gone to all the trouble of removing the tranny and such.

Your flywheel looks good, just take some fine grit sandpaper and go over the surface where the clutch mates to the flywheel. This is also a good time to inspect seals and clean accumulated oil/dirt/grease. Tape vent holes and power wash your tranny if you can. Don't take the flywheel off if you don't need to but check and make sure you don't have a RMS leak.

That's probably as much help as I can be. More qualified members will probably post additional info.

Good Luck!!

and

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:40 PM

RMS Leak?

I turned up the tranny to sit it on the big round part and tranny oil came out. About 2 or 3 silver dollars worth. Its now flat, as you can see from the pictures. Does that mean there is a seal behind the flywheel that needs to be changed?

Thanks again for all the great help.

I promise to clean it up good. = )

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:42 PM

Where are the vent holes? A power washer wont hurt it huh?

Thanks again.

Eric

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 12:50 PM

There is an air vent on top of the tranny, in line with the axles I think. That is the only place water could get in. Pressure wash is fine. I usually use in combination with some sort of degreaser.

You should be able to tell by smell if all that oil if from the trans. Sounds like you need a new mainshaft seal for the trans. for sure. Easy to replace.

If the rear main seal on the engine is bad you have a more difficult but doable task ahead. Flywheel must come off first. In that case you need new flywheel bolts, a felt seal, rear main seal and maybe some other stuff. Do some reading here and on the Pelican site for specifics.

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 12:52 PM

When I pulled the tranny off the engine, no oil came out. Only when I set the tranny on its end. Is that a good sign? Means the Rear Main Seal (RMS) is good (or atleast isnt gushing oil)?

Thanks. = )

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 12:59 PM

You have way too much oil on the clutch and in the bell housing. You have to plug the leaks or your new clutch won't last long.
RMS is on the engine, seals the end of the crank shaft, behind the flywheel. If a lot of your oily "mess" is motor oil, it is leaking,

The trans seal (the one which likely leaked when you tipped the tranny up) seals the transmission main shaft, behind the throw out bearing. Gear oil has a distinct odor.

You need to determine if only one or both are leaking before you put things back together.

Posted by: SLITS May 5 2009, 01:09 PM

If he stood the tranny on it's end, the oil came out of the breather (vent if you wish). It is located on the right side top, near where the bell housing starts expanding from the case. Little hex do-dad with a hole in one of the faces.

As far as the source for other oils, he has to determine that, but a rear main crankshaft seal replacement is not brain surgery. Just make sure you put all the shims that were behind the flywheel back in so the end play stays the same.

Oops didn't look at the other images that were uploaded.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 01:11 PM

If the oil came from the vent there should be a visible trail on the case. Tip it again and see where the oil comes from.

Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2009, 01:32 PM

Anybody even looked at the pictures he posted?


I wasn't talking about the fresh oil at all, which obviously had spilled after removing the tranny.
But look at all the old baked in oil EVERYWHERE and the burn surface on the flywheel and the pressure plate as well as the oil soaked clutch disk.

That's from oil leaking into the clutch while the car was driven!

If you don't fix your oil leaks, your new clutch package will be money thrown out of the window.

Your call ...
Andy

Posted by: SLITS May 5 2009, 01:36 PM

Agreed .... If you look at the first image of the bellhousing interior, you can see a fresh oil trail from one of the vents in the bellhousing ... exactly below where the vent sits in the housing.

It would be interesting to see the back of the flywheel to see if it has oil sling streaks on it.

Posted by: SLITS May 5 2009, 01:39 PM

Yes, Andy ... I did look ... and it is a real problem. I was also looking to see if I could see cracks and blueing, but the images are not that detailed. You are most certainly correct about ruining a new clutch assembly without fixing the oil leaks.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 02:00 PM

Looking at the pic, it does not appear oily at the bottom of the engine case. Certainly removing the flywheel is the best way to check things out, but it looks from the pics that the trans seal is the primary culprit.

Posted by: Derek Seymour May 5 2009, 02:03 PM

I was thinking the same thing...

Go over ANY area that could possibly leak oil, replace seals and check all your torque values.

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 03:09 PM

I see everyones point. The oil is coming from somewhere and our hunch is the RMS is bad and needs to be replaced. I will pull off the flywheel and take pictures of the back for the group. We will look for streak marks.

I did clean the tranny. Spotless. Is now the time to paint it too?

I also took pictures of the motor mounts. Any way to tell if they are any good or need to be replaced?

Thanks everyone for the advice.

So we are needing...
Clutch
Pressure Plate
Throw Out Bearing
RMS
Tranny shaft Seal

Its now to the point that its cheaper to buy the kit then it is to piece it together... Money...

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 03:11 PM

Posted by: Travis Neff May 5 2009, 03:19 PM

Here's a complete list of parts for replacing the clutch assembly (from pelican)

New Pressure Plate (resurface old or replace)
New Clutch Disc
New Throw-out Bearing
New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring
2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips
New Throw-out Fork Bushing
2 CV Joint Gaskets
2 Muffler Gaskets
New Flywheel O-Ring
New Flywheel Bolts
New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket
Clutch Disc Alignment Tool

Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2009, 03:24 PM

Unbolt the tranny mounts, use the long bolt as a lever and move it around and see if the rubber is cracked. If there are any cracks, replace them. You can use the 911 sport mounts instead of the OEM mounts. They'll work just fine.

As for the seals, did you check all the other possible leak areas?
My guess is most of the oil came from the main shaft seal or the pivot bolt on the tranny.

Also check the shifter console and output shafts for leaks. And the speedo angle drive.
Andy

Posted by: SLITS May 5 2009, 03:43 PM

Damn, We're good***




















*** at spending someone else's money.

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 04:42 PM

I took off the fly wheel. Here are some pictures. It looks really clean to me. What are your thoughts?

Posted by: ChrisNPDrider May 5 2009, 04:43 PM

yup, passenger side mount is busted, second pic of the transaxle mounts.
Great progress, keep it up

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 04:44 PM

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 04:44 PM

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 04:45 PM

This clutch is interesting. I dont know if the pictures show it but it almost looks broken/busted in the middle. Like it caved in... Also, the original issue was that the clutch just stopped working. The arm went in and out. It worked fine right up to the time it stopped working. When it was hot it would grind a bit but minimal. Could this have been the issue?

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 04:56 PM

So that crack in the 2nd picture makes this a bad motor mount? Cool. Good to know. Thanks for looking at that. I was trying to figure out how to best test it. I will just change it. Are they expensive? This is going to be a $1000 clutch job by the time I am done fixing everything. BLEH!

Thanks again!

Eric

Posted by: SirAndy May 5 2009, 05:31 PM

No. It's a bad Transmission Mount. Your motor mounts are up front where the motor is.


Now, don't just look for obvious cracks in those mounts. See my post above for testing both mounts.
If in doubt, replace them with 911 Sport Mounts.

And to confuse you even more, the 911 Sport Mounts are 911 motor mounts that can be used as 914 transmission mounts.

Also, you might want to check your motor mounts in the front and make sure those aren't broken.
They don't look anything like the mounts in the rear. In fact, it'll be hard to get to them with the motor still in the car.
Andy

Posted by: Derek Seymour May 5 2009, 05:40 PM

Cire, see the black lines going out from the center of the flywheel and all the black baked on looking patches? That is from oil leaking out of the RMS and being flung outwards by centrifugal force, then after the motor is off and still hot all the leaked out oil is baking on to the flywheel.

Clean your flywheel with gas or acetone. Sand the surface on the flywheel where the clutch mates
Replace RMS (Take note of how many shims you have and put them back EXACTLY the way you found it when bolting the flywheel back on)

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 06:48 PM

Derek's advice is probably best, but that engine case/seal area sure looks clean and fresh. Could the back of the flywheel be showing oil from a leak which has been repaired?
However, you are so close now you may as well replace the rms.

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 5 2009, 07:17 PM

You guys done yet? You never need to replace T4 flywheel bolts unless they're damaged in some way. The oil from a leaking rear main seal isn't gonna get on the clutch unless it's just pouring out. The F/W o-ring is a more common source of engine oil migrating to the clutch. However, in this case, it' looks like it may be tranny oil.

The flywheel is on its last legs. It's been cut far enough to require the heads of the F/W bolts to be cut down, and that means it can't be cut again (it probably shouldn't have been cut the last time!). If you leave it alone, maybe just break the glaze, it may be OK for a while. With the F/W cut as far as it has been, you need to make sure there's an extra washer behind the ball stud for the release arm. The washer to use is one of the ones under any of the tranny cover bolts. Put something else there in its place.

When removing the tranny, or the complete drive train, it's FAR easier to remove the 4 8mm bolts on the tranny mounts than it is to remove the 2 large bolts, and you'll never have to remember (or ask) where the washers go ..........

Now back to your regularly scheduled program ............

The Cap'n

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 5 2009, 07:25 PM

The Cap'n knows best. Do as he says. It is his business to know this stuff. Most of the rest of us just play at it.

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 07:26 PM

Thanks Cap'n. = )

Behind the flywheel looks very clean. Are those 2 open holes supposed to be like that? Should something be covering them? I do think its more the tranny leaking than the engine. The engine looks fairly clean. The tranny when stood on its end leaked fluid but not from the breather but rather the shaft (I think - I didnt see a trail from the breather per a suggestion a few posts back - thanks). So is that an easy seal to replace?

Thanks again everyone.

ERic

Posted by: r_towle May 5 2009, 07:42 PM

The large amount of sediment on the inside of the bellhousing makes me believe the front seal on the tranny is leaking.
The stripes on the back of the flywheel makes me think that the rear main seal is leaking.

I am also concerned about your galley plugs on the bottom of the case...those dont look right..maybe someone used JBWeld on them....not really sure what it is, but it does not look right.

Rich

Posted by: Cire May 5 2009, 08:05 PM

Rich,

I wonder if there was a leak before and the way they fixed it was with JB Weld. I agree it looks like it. That would account for all the oil all over the tranny and clutch and fly wheel and and and. They open it up, fix the leak, clean it up and put it back as best as possible. It held for awhile until the clutch failed...?

So I will change the RMS and the Tranny main shaft seal. What else?

Thanks.

Eric

Posted by: SLITS May 5 2009, 08:37 PM

See if someone can give you Greg Robbins number in Phoenix. I gave him a couple of flywheels and if he has an extra that is good (not cut), tell him Ron Meier told you to call and ask for it.

If you get and use a "newer" flywheel you will need to confirm your endplay.

Get new flywheel bolts if your's are cut ( if you use a "newer" flywheel).

If the throwout bearing is smooth in rotation, you need not replace it.

Check the plastic bushing under the clutch fork arm as Cap'n Krusty suggested.

Get a new or good used clutch assembly.

As far as your galley plugs, well they seem to be holding with the JB Weld or whatever epoxy it is.

Well, that's my shot at it ... Ok, John, you can jump in again.

Edit: Here is Greg's number .... 602-291-3525

Posted by: Jeffs9146 May 6 2009, 09:14 AM

Wouldn't a leak from the oil pressure sender over a period of time work its way into the clutch area?

I would do as Cap'n said, and you might as well just do all seals, replace the F/W, PP and the TOB "WYAIT" (while you are in there)!

Posted by: Cire May 6 2009, 09:52 AM

What is the F/W? PP? and the TOB? = ) Do they come in the kit? A kit?

Thanks

Eric

Posted by: SLITS May 6 2009, 10:11 AM

F/W = Flywheel

PP = Pressure Plate or clutch cover (your choice)

TOB = Throw out bearing

Only thing you left out was friction disk .... what goes between pressure plate and flywheel.

And yes, it all comes in a kit and from Automobile Atlanta, I believe you can get a kit that includes a resurfaced flywheel.

Posted by: Cire May 6 2009, 12:08 PM

Part Number: r91411600001

Name of item:
914 19 PIECE CLUTCH PACKAGE KIT (NEW FLYWHEEL, rebuilt plate & disc)

It looks like the full kit can be had for $556.22 and $100 dollar core at Automobile Atlanta.

Description Of Product:
Our 19-piece clutch package contains everything we use in our shop for a perfect clutch replacement. Beware of lesser kits, you will need all of these parts! Included is the clutch installation manual. KIT INCLUDES: Rear main seal, Throwout bearing, 2 Throwout bearing clips, Flywheel (NEW), Front trans. seal, 2 CV joint gaskets, Flywheel O-ring, Ball stud cup, 2 Muffler gaskets, Needle bearing, CV joint bolt, Clutch alignment tool, Flywheel crush washer, Felt washer, Pressure plate (RBLT), Clutch disc (rblt.), clutch installation manual. CORE CHARGE $100

To Purchase:

Price: $556.22

________________________________________

From Pelican its $539.10 but without a flywheel.

New Pressure Plate
New 911 Clutch Disc
New Throw-out Bearing
New Pilot Bearing and Felt Ring
2 Throw-out Bearing Guide Clips
New Throw-out Fork Bushing
2 CV Joint Gaskets
2 Muffler Gaskets
New Flywheel O-Ring
New Flywheel Bolts
New Flywheel Metal Crush Gasket
Clutch Disc Alignment Tool
Flywheel/crankshaft seal not included - check yours first before ordering.

914-CP-1000AN 914-4 20 Piece Super Clutch Kit, Without Flywheel, 914 1.7/1.8/2.0 (1970-76), Each [More Info]
$539.10
________________________________

I guess I need all these items, its just a lot of money. Can anyone put together a used kit cheap? Not crap parts but I know I have good used parts around my shop that would work for other areas of the car. Maybe someone has a good flywheel, clutch, pressure plate setup they want to sell? I know. New is the way to go... but I doubt I can afford it at this time.

Thanks again everyone.

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 6 2009, 12:09 PM

LOL I still need 2 tranny mount kits. Am I going to need Engine ones as well if the tranny ones are bad? = ) Dominos.....

Eric

Posted by: SLITS May 6 2009, 12:44 PM

Gave you a phone number to call ... don't ignore it.

Posted by: Cire May 6 2009, 02:39 PM

I gave him a call and left a message. = ) I will cross my fingers that he doesnt think I am a nut. LOL Think he has any Tranny Mounts? = )

Eric

Posted by: Cap'n Krusty May 6 2009, 05:00 PM

The oil pressure sender might as well be on the other end of the car in terms of getting oil on the clutch ................... The Cap'n

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 12:21 PM

Here are a few more pictures of the clutch, flywheel and pressure plate. Anyone see anything else bad that hasnt been caught thus far? = )

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 12:22 PM

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 12:23 PM

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 12:24 PM

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 7 2009, 12:41 PM

Aside from the fact that things are oily and the disc looks pretty rough, I don't see why the clutch stopped working entirely? Have you figured that out yet? Maybe others can see more than I can.

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 12:45 PM

That is my issue. I dont see where it failed. It just stopped working. When I had someone sit in the car and work the clutch, the arm on the tranny moved most of its length. To me, this means the shift tube did NOT come lose and that something in the tranny went bad. Someone told me that throw out bearings can go like this. = ) Well, the throw out bearing looks good. Dont get me wrong, it was a mess and needed some attention, however, I dont want to put it back together and still have an issue. = )

How can I test the shift tube with the tranny out? The cable was connected and working normally through the pulley. It just didnt disengage the clutch enough to allow it to go into gear (grindddd).

That clutch is bad. It has some cracks going with the grain of the disc. Could this have been the issue?

Thanks team.

Eric

Posted by: Derek Seymour May 7 2009, 01:24 PM

Mine was doing the same thing unless I had the adjuster nut on the cable tightened all the way down to where the threads stopped. Even then getting into 1st was a hit and miss. There was almost no travel from the pedal fully depressed to the engagement point. I wasn't getting any noticeable slipping when going up hills or when accelerating, but shifting was rough.

My clutch disc disn't look very worn when I took it out. My pressure plate had the same wear marks from the throw out bearing that yours has... which of course is normal. Fortunately I didn't have any engine or tranny fluid leaking problems. My guess was that the pressure plate was just worn out, and it seems on my car I was correct. With a new throw out bearing, pressure plate, and clutch disk the system feels perfect.

This was just my experience though and doesn't mean it is the exact same situation as yours, but hopefully it will be as simple as mine.

The Cap'n a PRO at this stuff and will have the best diagnosis so go with what he says.

Posted by: charliew May 7 2009, 01:25 PM

From the first page pictures it looks like the pivot for the throwout fork is loose and leaking. It would have been shimmed (remember the washer discussion?) to make up for the surfaced flywheel. I think the rear of the motor was leaking as you said and repaired. the clutch disk appears to have been "formed conical" to get it to work a little longer by some evil person maybe.

The flywheel will not pass as a core probably, save the shipping charges.

You might ask if t4 bus clutch parts will work and be cheaper.

The last thing you want is to miss the leaks and mess the new disk up.

In Waco we have a forever old flywheel, pp and clutch place that rebuilds everything (they got the specs on everything) but they really need to know what they are doing are you will get to do it over and over and over till it's right.

Posted by: Cire May 7 2009, 02:25 PM

Whats it take to fix it if its leaking? Do we need anything special or is it the main seal for the tranny? I went back and looked at the pictures. You are right, it looks like its leaking right behind the fork.

Thanks. I guess I need to take a look under there. = )

Eric

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 7 2009, 04:21 PM

Remove the throw out bearing and lever. There is a ball stud which the lever pivots on. The stud should have been shimmed when flywheel was resurfaced (cut). The shim (extra washer) is to keep things in the same relative position as before the flywheel was "thinned". Also, there is a plastic busing inside the lever which acts as a bearing between the lever and the stud.

The ball stud is screwed into the transmission and if not tighly sealed can leak gear oil.

Again, the Cap'n and others know much more than I about this stuff. You may not need to shim the ball stud if you use an uncut flywheel. But do be sure you do what is required regarding shims/crank endplay when installing a different flywheel.

Posted by: Cire May 8 2009, 06:35 PM

Howdy all,

I pulled the throw out bearing arm off and did some looking around. The first thing that happened was the little tab fell out. The little tab that goes under a bolt (which one??) and has a nut welded to it... Its in my pictures. Anyway, so I picked that up and continued to remove the arm. It came off without much of a problem. I got it off and the first thing I noticed was that the ball/nut thing was lose. Yeah.. Not even finger tight. I take it that there is tranny oil behind that ball/nut? It had one washer behind it as well (as seen in the photos). Do I need another one since my flywheel is ground pretty low? I got it all apart and cleaned it up. Surprisingly, it was pretty clean under there. The plastic cup that goes over the ball/nut thing was white and didnt look used at all. The throw out bearing spins freely without any snags or bumps. The plastic 2 end pieces look good.

What was my problem? = ) Was it the little thing that fell out? Was it the oilly clutch?

Here are the photos.

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 8 2009, 06:36 PM

Here are two more.






Eric

Posted by: maf914 May 9 2009, 08:06 AM

The retaining clip with the nut welded to it secures the release arm to the pivot ball. I would replace the retaining clip with a new one while you have the car apart as it can fail due to fatigue, as mine did.

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 10:37 AM

ARGGGG Well, I am trying to get the seal out and am having a hell of a time with it. Here are some pictures of before I started and where I am at now. I read 5 or 6 other posts about removing the seal. Captn says to use a screw driver. Someone else suggested drilling a hole in it and then pulling it out that way. I tried to drill it... Did I get to close to the edge? SHI*!!! How do I get this out?

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 10:38 AM

Now after my attempt to remove the seal...

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 9 2009, 10:53 AM

I have had that problem as well. Pushed it farther in while trying to get it out. A professional who worked at an independent Porsche shop and was once a dealer P. mechanic, advised me as follows: "Back in the day, we used to just drive them back in on the shaft. Never hurt a thing spinning there. Then install the new seal." That's what I did.

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 10:58 AM

Is that pushed in? Thats the way it was when I opened it up. Look at the big gap between the shaft and the seal... Is that correct? But thats where its been... It hasnt been pushed in. = ) Or at least by me. Whats one supposed to look like?

Scary to push it in if its meant to come out...

Eric

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 9 2009, 11:28 AM

I agree that it was "scary". I had managed to get it so far back in that I would never get it out without disassembling the trans. Looks like your seal is already a bit farther in than normal, but I don't think it matters much. I think you just seat the new seal flush with the edge of the case.
As to the clearance between the seal and the shaft, the sealing surface is on the inner edge of the seal so some space on the outer edge is normal. Yours does look larger than I recall however. Others who have responded on this thread know more than I do. The Cap'n will probably get real "crusty" when he reads the "drive it in" solution!

Posted by: SirAndy May 9 2009, 11:49 AM

Ever heard of a "seal puller"?
And yes, a lose pivot ball will leak oil.

Get a new flywheel as yours is on it's last leg anyways ...
Andy

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 9 2009, 12:09 PM

Order a new pilot bearing too.

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 04:29 PM

Where is the pilot bearing?

Eric

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 04:31 PM

= ) Is there a particular brand or will the one at the local pep boys work?

Eric

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 9 2009, 05:02 PM

Not sure about seal puller but local parts store should have something. May just be a tool with a hooked end to get behind the seal.
Pilot bearing is in the flywheel, shown here. I think there is a felt ring that goes with it as well.

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 9 2009, 05:55 PM

In the pic above it is in the center of the flywheel.

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 06:26 PM

Here is the tool that I bought... It really didnt work. Its to long to get in there. So if you are taking on the task of changing out the seal DO NOT BUY this one...

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 06:28 PM

Here is what the seal looked like after it came out. SHOOT ME TWICE!!! Its not all there. I have no idea where the rest of it is. It looks like its just rubber thats missing but it still doesnt sit well with me. Is this even the right seal? Wow. What a mess...

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 06:32 PM

And now the climax... No good deed goes unpunished??? Every idiot has his day??? Wow... I guess the only I can say is that I would NOT drill out the seal unless you know EXACTLY What you are doing. If you are off, if that head moves a bit, if the rubber bits and pushed the head of your drill against the edge... You are done. I didnt even know there was an edge past what I could see. Make sure you know what you are doing... If the tranny is out take it to your local porsche guy.. It would be worth the 10 bucks to have him pull it.

Can it be fixed? Do we pull a gun out and shoot me in the leg?

#$%%^$%&^%^*^&(^&($#@#$@@!!!!!!








Wow.... Since I am not driving... can I drink? = /

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 06:33 PM

Last of the great drilling work....

Posted by: Cire May 9 2009, 06:35 PM

Last one...

Posted by: So.Cal.914 May 9 2009, 07:19 PM

Sudjestion? JB weld, keep it as close to the original machine work as possible. Then clean it up with fine (400-600 grit) sand paper. Its worth a try, I have fixed M/C cases with the stuff.

Posted by: Porsche Rescue May 9 2009, 09:05 PM

It looks as though you could drive the new seal in until it is almost past the "slot". As long as the outside of the seal gets at least 1/2 on the smooth bore it should seal OK. Do some measuring first so you don't go to far and lose the seal.
If you try to fill with epoxy/JB Weld be sure it is sanded/filed so that it is even or below the surrounding surface. If you leave it to high you will have a leak for sure.