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Posted by: JJ914 May 10 2009, 12:59 PM

Need advice on getting rings to seat in my new 2.0. It is still smoking after it gets warmed up. It has about 500 miles on it now. The motor has total seal rings in it and I am thinking that they or one of them has not seated. I have Rotella oil in now but it didnt help much. Any advice on what I could do to help.
Thanks

Posted by: ConeDodger May 10 2009, 02:23 PM

I've never heard of anyone using Total Seal Rings in a Type IV but when I have used them on Datsun motors it is critical that the gaps be opposing or they will never seat. Maybe Jake will weigh in on this but I would bet he has tested Total Seal Rings and has a reason he doesn't use them on everything...

Posted by: Al Meredith May 10 2009, 05:58 PM

Jason, If you want me to re-ring that motor let me know. My son has never liked total-seal , from experience and I only used them because they were already there. Taking the top end off is not a big project. With the engine out it should take 1/2 day. Al

Posted by: ConeDodger May 10 2009, 07:46 PM

Just to add to my earlier comment, 500 miles is a bit early yet. You do need to wind her out really well and let her come back down a few times to get them to seat. Again, I have not had a problem using Total Seal on Datsun L series engines in the past but the Type IV is a different animal all together.
I would bet they were installed correctly if Al built that motor. I don't know him but by reputation. The compression ring has a second ring inside it that expands to give a better seal in theory. The second ring must gap 180 off from its mother ring.
I have never asked Jake why he doesn't use them but if Blake doesn't like them, I would bet they have been tested... I think both Blake and Jake are at the track this and both of the previous two weekends...

Posted by: Jake Raby May 10 2009, 08:07 PM

11 times I have attempted to use them in a TIV engine. 10 times I have failed.

Posted by: r_towle May 10 2009, 08:12 PM

cant say never...it did work once...

Posted by: ConeDodger May 10 2009, 08:48 PM

Well there you go. Jake loves failure. It tells you not only what doesn't work but also what by comparison does.

Posted by: JJ914 May 10 2009, 08:55 PM

OK I have driven the crap out of the engine and if they havent sealed yet they arent going to I guess. So I guess it times to re-ring. Other than the smoke it runs great and doesnt leak, but smoking isnt good. Sounds like the total seal arnt going to work out. Al I will send you a PM.

Posted by: Jake Raby May 11 2009, 09:53 AM

Put the car in second gear.. Take it to redline and hold it there for a second or two then leave the car in gear and do not put your foot on the clutch. Allow the vehicle to "push" the engine all the way down to about 20 MPH, then pin the throttle to the floor again and hold it there all the way to redline again...

Do this process 4 times without intermission.. If the rings don't seat then, they'll never seat.

Disclaimer:
This is what I'd do- it is not a recommendation for what you should do in case something should explode..

Posted by: SirAndy May 11 2009, 10:01 AM

Posted by: JJ914 May 11 2009, 08:16 PM

Ok I have tried to seat the rings as Jake suggested a few weeks back and it didnt help. So its tme to re-ring. Will it hurt the engine to keep driving it till I can pull out the engine. It only smokes when it warm and comeing off idle. I to miss some of the good weather time for enjoying the top off .

Posted by: yeahmag May 11 2009, 08:36 PM

Out of curiosity, what color is the smoke?

Posted by: r_towle May 11 2009, 08:40 PM

yes it will hurt the motor.

Fuel is getting into the oil.

Rich

Posted by: 904svo May 11 2009, 08:43 PM

Do you have Webers 40 on it, if you do what kind of gas millage are you getting?

Al and I found a problem with the choke circuit where it was running RICH !!!

If you are running rich the rings will never seat!

Posted by: hot_shoe914 May 11 2009, 08:45 PM

Drive the car up to the Talimena run this weekend and let me have it for the weekend while you drive my limited. If they aren't seated by the time I get done the out of it, you may as well rering it for sure.


p.s. If I blow it up I will not be held responsible due to the fact if it blows, it wasn't put together right in the first place. Mine haven't blown yet.

Posted by: JJ914 May 12 2009, 10:26 AM

Hey there,

Ok I did have 40IDFs on it but I took them off and installed a prog weber just to see if that was a issue(no change). The smoke is a whiteish color, it dosnt smoke at all till it gets warmed up good, then it does it coming off idle then clears up till back to closed throttle. I got with Al and he said to try and get them to set a little longer and if not we will re-ring it. I will change the oil in it again incase there is some fuel in it and then put some hard miles on it (good times, yea).

Posted by: yeahmag May 12 2009, 10:47 AM

That sounds like the oil rings didn't seat. Have you noticed any oil level changes? Does the oil smell like gas when you "sniff the dipstick"?

Posted by: JJ914 May 12 2009, 08:39 PM

The oil level has dropped a little but not to much, No fuel smell in the oil. The gas milage seems ok, I havent check it officially. What would if any be the best kind of oil to use to help with the problem?

Posted by: type2man May 12 2009, 09:15 PM

I'd change the oil, do a compression test, and put another 500 miles on it. Then check the oil level again and see if it has gone down. If the rings dont seat, you will have some gas in the oil which might give you an inaccurate reading of the oil level. Have you ruled out the possibility of bad valve guides or excessive blowby since you just had the engine redone?

Posted by: JJ914 May 12 2009, 09:48 PM

The heads where rebuilt and look really good, so I hope they are not the trouble at this point. I will try and do a compression test too.

Posted by: yeahmag May 12 2009, 10:52 PM

Typically the valve guides are suspect when you smoke on decel. Rings are the problem on acceleration. Guidelines only...

Posted by: JJ914 May 13 2009, 04:04 PM

OK, took the car to work today and drove it hard(lots of fun). Did the 2nd gear redline coast down redline thing Jake suggested, but still smokes. It doesnt start smoking till it idles for a minute then big puff of smoke and clears up till it rests at idle again. Makes sitting at red light bad. I fit runs in garage for a minute after I get home the garage and drive fill with smoke. Maybe I'll drive again tommorrow and see if anything changes.