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914World.com _ 914World Garage _ Subaru WRX 23 914 Progress Thread in AZ (252 HP at the wheels!))
Posted by: budman5201 May 21 2009, 07:51 PM
Here is my Subaru Turbo exhaust. I think I finally got TIG welding down pat. Have to be comfortable when welding.....About another month or so and this baby is running....19 LBS boost!
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Posted by: budman5201 May 21 2009, 07:59 PM
Here is my Subaru Turbo exhaust. I think I finally got TIG welding down pat. Have to be comfortable when welding.....About another month or so and this baby is running....
SO guys, I have a renegade subaru engine cradle and I promised that i wouldnt show it, but how do I show my work off on this site without doing that? Basically its their engine mount and everthing else is mine.....Its right around all my work!
Here is my Heat Exchanger for my Air/water intercooler. I used a standard air/air intercooler (about half the price for a huge one) and i am chopping the sides welding them up, putting 1/2 flared fitting on each side, then i will have a 26x6x2.5 aluminum heat exchanger right out front....Front not near done yet
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Posted by: raw1298 May 21 2009, 08:02 PM
You could photo shop it out or paint it camo so we can't see it! 
Posted by: jd74914 May 22 2009, 06:32 AM
Or we could just not look. :wink:
Posted by: charliew May 22 2009, 08:45 AM
You know what? that is so stupid, how many ways can you bend tubing, hold a suby motor and make it bolt in. Besides I really think most suby transplants from here on out will be using suby trannys for their reliability and better gearing. Try buying a lsd for 400.00 for a 901. You can get high strength shafts, dog box or syncros or a mixture. Even in stock configuration, if it were to equal the best built 901 it still would be a way newer design with a good aftermarket support. Now if subaru would only make a sequential tranny.
A air to air ic has a different internal core to flow air as unrestricted as possible (bigger tubes) where a water radiator needs to slow the water down to transfer the heat sufficently before it goes to the heat exchanger. I also think you will have too much airflow restriction in front of your radiator.
Your tigging is looking good but you might want to add a extra piece of tubing to the flange to let the wastegate flow better.
It looks like you lowered your turbo a lot, will it drain to the pan ok?
Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:02 PM
Creative Photo taking. Nope TURBO still way up high, check out the photo of the turbo drain still way above like stock....
The air/air intercooler will have 1/2 inch lines so water will slow way down in the cooler itself since it was designed to be 2 inch air flowing through it......
As for position i debated putting it right just below the lower hortizontal sheet metal and cutting my LOW valance to fit around it since its low anyways, that way the radiator would have unrestricted flow, and the heat exchanger flow would go underneath the car.....it would just look so much better cosmetically if i could hide in just before the radiator. I did enlarge my hole to max height and width. Basically its 32 inches across by 12 inches high....Thats huge!!
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Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:03 PM
another
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Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:03 PM
more
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Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:04 PM
Renegade Makes a superior Product....Love that i didnt have to fab that up. !!
Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:19 PM
okay heres some pics of the air coming in up front, obviously not finished in any way...but hole width /height is staying.
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Posted by: budman5201 May 24 2009, 07:19 PM
another
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Posted by: computers4kids May 24 2009, 07:30 PM
SO guys, I have a renegade subaru engine cradle and I promised that i wouldnt show it
Your kidding, right.
By the way, nice work.
Posted by: DBCooper May 25 2009, 01:01 AM
No joke. Everybody who wants to look underneath a Rennegade car has to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so at car shows there are little lines that form, people doing the paperwork... 
Posted by: BIGKAT_83 May 25 2009, 09:13 AM
That can't be true I found these online.
Posted by: orcadigital May 25 2009, 11:00 AM
As i am not very well versed on Turbos, i have a question...
Putting the intercooler on the front of a mid engine car seems like you would have incredibly long pipe runs... and most intercooler pipes i have seen attempt to have less bends and run shorter distances... The 914 turbos i have seen seem to mount the intercooler either in the engine bay on top of the engine, or in the rear trunk with ducting pulling air down to it. Just curious...
Posted by: plymouth37 May 25 2009, 11:09 AM
No joke. Everybody who wants to look underneath a Rennegade car has to sign a non-disclosure agreement, so at car shows there are little lines that form, people doing the paperwork...
Just wait until I get to the mechanical part of my build, I designed the damn thing so I have no problem plastering photos of it all over my build thread...
Your project is really coming together Budman, I have played around with the idea of an A/W intercooler and will be interested to see how yours turns out.
Posted by: budman5201 May 25 2009, 04:43 PM
As i am not very well versed on Turbos, i have a question...
Putting the intercooler on the front of a mid engine car seems like you would have incredibly long pipe runs... and most intercooler pipes i have seen attempt to have less bends and run shorter distances... The 914 turbos i have seen seem to mount the intercooler either in the engine bay on top of the engine, or in the rear trunk with ducting pulling air down to it. Just curious...
My intercooler run is going to be exactly 1 foot from the turbo into the Water/Air Intercooler and 1.5 back to the intake from the intercooler. The intercooler up front is and air/air that is going to be modified with 1/2 inch tubing in and out with a water pump pushing the water to/from the engine bay just like the renegade radiator, but i keep it serparate because the heat exchanger will be closer to ambient temperature unlike the engine which is 195 or 205 with the A/C on full blast. Basically its just a heat exchanger for the water/air intercooler in the engine bay. Water/air intercoolers have greater heat exchange properties than air/air ones, and especially with my gigantic heat exchanger up front. Ex. The new mustang has a heat exchanger 24x7 i think and its only an inch wide for its supercharger. Mine is 26x7x2.5 inches and aluminum also. SO plenty for this lower horsepower engine.
Give me another few weeks and i should have the water intercooler plumbing in.
Posted by: pavpav12 May 25 2009, 05:32 PM
looking good
Posted by: strawman May 25 2009, 11:08 PM
Your project is really coming along. Great job!
I know what you mean about secrecy and Renegade. I visited his shop in Vegas a couple of months ago and was amazed at some of the projects in his shop, but he holds his cards pretty close to his vest. He is also pretty proud of his work and insistent that he has the optimal solution, basically poo-pooing some of my ideas. But I really enjoyed the tour.
Did you consider reversing your intake manifold? See http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=60 for details on what I'm doing for my Suby-powered 914...
Geoff
Posted by: charliew May 25 2009, 11:53 PM
First time I've seen the rh engine mount but I had imagined a lot from other glimpses on other threads. It looks like the motor and tranny are tilted up and forward in the front to give the stock pan more ground clearance. If that is the case then the tranny is no longer level it seems. I have tried unlevel trannys in the past and it didn't work very well long term. Usually the front bearing gets too dry and if you don't lower the lube level it will usually leak in the rear. Course it's not a 901 so maybe there is no seals at the very rear to leak, just the speedo.
Bigkat you are soooo bad
Posted by: budman5201 May 26 2009, 12:04 AM
Your project is really coming along. Great job!
I know what you mean about secrecy and Renegade. I visited his shop in Vegas a couple of months ago and was amazed at some of the projects in his shop, but he holds his cards pretty close to his vest. He is also pretty proud of his work and insistent that he has the optimal solution, basically poo-pooing some of my ideas. But I really enjoyed the tour.
Did you consider reversing your intake manifold? See http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=83031&st=60 for details on what I'm doing for my Suby-powered 914...
Geoff
Well i am keeping A/C because i live in Arizona and its HOT here. So reversing the intake would mean losing my Compressor. I tried it and it works but no compressor.
Check out this pic. This is a MOD to that same exact intake, it points straight up. Worked great on my last NA conversion. I still have it. Its unbelievable how much room i had underneath the intake when i MOdded it. Yeah keep me informed of your progress too......I believe that i do NOT have the best solution, i am always open to input. Renegade does have that attitude though, which in my opinion kinda sucks. Someones engineering might be better, thats always a possibility
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Posted by: budman5201 May 26 2009, 12:11 AM
Anyone have a LOW valance like this that i can hack up? I need to "blend" it around my heat exchanger in front. Think i am going below the opening in front. I want Ice cold A/C.
Maybe someone had a nice one and hit a curb so its cracked in the middle. I'll take it!
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Posted by: charliew May 26 2009, 12:18 AM
I have 916 front and rear bumpers that I will try to make look decent. Also if you ever go to the phase 2 style heads with the different intake port bolt pattern the 06 2.5i intake is a higher/bigger intake. I'm going to get one and see how it fits rotated.
Posted by: budman5201 May 26 2009, 09:16 PM
We Have FINAL Heat Exchanger up front Position. That should definately allow a ton of air to radiator. I split it. Half of the heat exchanger air goes through the radiator and half goes underneath the car. (that way i wont bump it on curbs either)
Woo hoo! Thats one thats been in my brain forever to how it would look. Now to tear it down and start welding reinforcements. 
Anyone have a Billet 350Z grill?
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 8 2009, 07:59 PM
Okay Air/air intercooler Converted to Heat exchanger DONE! Whew, i might be good at steel Tig welding, but man i need more practice on Aluminum. (not good yet)
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 8 2009, 08:01 PM
Mounted
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 8 2009, 08:02 PM
another
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 10 2009, 05:40 PM
Subaru Fuel Rail vs.....
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 10 2009, 05:41 PM
My Fuel Rail...much Simpler and serviceable if needed. Bigger diameter lines also for more flow if needed.
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Posted by: charliew Jun 10 2009, 10:36 PM
Not sure what you are planning on the filters. The plastic won't handle 45psi. Also the deal would be to run the fuel rails in parallel so one side doesn't see more volume/pressure than the other. Parallel feed to each rail then the rails go back together to the fuel pressure regulator then the return from the regulator to the tank or a surge tank then the tank. Hose clamps are a little shakey with high pressure fuel lines.
Posted by: plymouth37 Jun 10 2009, 10:49 PM
Oh my God you posted a photograph of the Renegade cradle! The Police are on their way! The Four Horsemen of the apocalypse have been released and a scourge of locusts are descending on your garage as we speak!
But seriously, keep up the good work...
Posted by: 3d914 Jun 10 2009, 11:17 PM
Budman,
Outstanding work as usual!
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 11 2009, 12:49 AM
Not sure what you are planning on the filters. The plastic won't handle 45psi. Also the deal would be to run the fuel rails in parallel so one side doesn't see more volume/pressure than the other. Parallel feed to each rail then the rails go back together to the fuel pressure regulator then the return from the regulator to the tank or a surge tank then the tank. Hose clamps are a little shakey with high pressure fuel lines.
the plastic filter is before the fuel pump (low pressure) and the metal one after the fuel pump. I know about running the fuel lines in parallel, but this is definately the cheaper way. I am running it the same way as stock because the stock fuel regulator actually slides into fuel injector rail and cant be used in that parallel setup without buying a whole new fuel regulator. But an easy change in the future since i have all an6 fittings now.
Posted by: MoveQik Jun 11 2009, 01:10 AM
When will all of us AZ folks get to see this thing in person?? 
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 11 2009, 02:37 AM
When will all of us AZ folks get to see this thing in person??
About 3 weeks. Got a little delayed, because i was rebuilding a jetski motor. Where in scottsdale are you located? I am down here off of Germann and Alma School next to the 101
Posted by: MoveQik Jun 11 2009, 09:42 AM
When will all of us AZ folks get to see this thing in person??
About 3 weeks. Got a little delayed, because i was rebuilding a jetski motor. Where in scottsdale are you located? I am down here off of Germann and Alma School next to the 101
Cactus & 101
Posted by: WaideS Jun 11 2009, 10:14 AM
yeah, yeah
Count me in on the unveiling.....
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 15 2009, 01:04 AM
New Revolutions!!
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 15 2009, 01:06 AM
New Revolutions!!
THANKYOU JohnC!!!
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Posted by: Zaney Jun 15 2009, 10:31 AM
They look great!
What size are they and what tires did you mount?
Nate
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 17 2009, 10:40 PM
They look great!
What size are they and what tires did you mount?
Natethey are 205/45/17's
Just converted the coils over to the 2005 version with the ignitors built into them. I had one bad coil on startup, but wow did it run smooth with 3 cylinders only firing! I got a deal on 4 almost new ones for $80 bucks!
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Posted by: malaga_red75 Jun 17 2009, 11:04 PM
Hey budman,
I am doing a EJ25 N/A conversion right now and I was just wondering what you did with the tube coming out of the IAC valve?
Also, sweet fuel rail setup... how much did that cost you? Sources?
-Peter
Posted by: malaga_red75 Jun 17 2009, 11:17 PM
also what year engine is that?
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 17 2009, 11:52 PM
also what year engine is that?
i think its a 2002 subaru JDM 2.0 turbo, fuel rail is from outfrontmotorsports.com cheap at $90 total! That idle control valve goes directly to air intake for your N/A conversion. I do need help myself knowing what the cold idle and warm idle settings are for that valve (for my turbo engine.) I just found a good subaru dyno its called goodspeedmotorsports here in tempe,az. I'll ask them tomorrow about the settings for the idle valve and shoot them back to you....
woohoo! new ignitor coils are in and that solved my dead cylinder problem!
Posted by: malaga_red75 Jun 18 2009, 01:50 AM
also what year engine is that?
i think its a 2002 subaru JDM 2.0 turbo, fuel rail is from outfrontmotorsports.com cheap at $90 total! That idle control valve goes directly to air intake for your N/A conversion. I do need help myself knowing what the cold idle and warm idle settings are for that valve (for my turbo engine.) I just found a good subaru dyno its called goodspeedmotorsports here in tempe,az. I'll ask them tomorrow about the settings for the idle valve and shoot them back to you....
woohoo! new ignitor coils are in and that solved my dead cylinder problem!
Thanks...I havent setup the rest of the intake yet, thats why i didnt know! Also, do i have to run the Mass air flow meter in the intake as well? sorry to hijac
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 18 2009, 02:02 AM
also what year engine is that?
i think its a 2002 subaru JDM 2.0 turbo, fuel rail is from outfrontmotorsports.com cheap at $90 total! That idle control valve goes directly to air intake for your N/A conversion. I do need help myself knowing what the cold idle and warm idle settings are for that valve (for my turbo engine.) I just found a good subaru dyno its called goodspeedmotorsports here in tempe,az. I'll ask them tomorrow about the settings for the idle valve and shoot them back to you....
woohoo! new ignitor coils are in and that solved my dead cylinder problem!
Thanks...I havent setup the rest of the intake yet, thats why i didnt know! Also, do i have to run the Mass air flow meter in the intake as well? sorry to hijac
Posted by: pktzygt Jun 18 2009, 06:03 AM
Hey, what swayed your decision toward the Storm ECU? Outfront seems to have a preference toward the Stinger EMS.
That's about the last part I need to get mine running. The motor will me going in the first week in july.
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 19 2009, 01:20 AM
Hey, what swayed your decision toward the Storm ECU? Outfront seems to have a preference toward the Stinger EMS.
That's about the last part I need to get mine running. The motor will me going in the first week in july.
Outfront in my opinion is AWESOME for parts, but i use a guy out here in az for my tuning and computer. he builds $90k sandrails with turbo subarus all day and he knows his stuff. The Link Ecu Storm G4 is soo nice. When my coil wasnt working, i actually had the ability to take out the spark plugs and ground them to the intake and hit a key on my laptop and it will fire them individually (whichever you pick to test) with lower than normal voltage so you can check to see if spark is going.
I had a g1 first generation LINK ECU (no name) and it was great too, but this one has a little more toys to play with on the laptop OHHH also it has a self tune mode, that i havent quite used yet, but when my wideband O2 SENSOR and controller makes it here next week i will try it.
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2009, 08:43 PM
Almost done, just waiting on intercooler and front valance parts. Here is the cable shift underneath.
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2009, 08:44 PM
more
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 20 2009, 08:45 PM
more
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 22 2009, 08:18 PM
intercooler piping done! Only took one weld spot on the piping. Forgive the zip ties on silicone 90 degree bends, i used them temporarily to fit it all up. Wow started it and it sounds a little different when it hits boost! almost done still waiting on wideband controller
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 22 2009, 08:19 PM
Red is the hot side after turbo and blue is the cooler air after intercooler
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Posted by: budman5201 Jun 22 2009, 08:20 PM
intercooler is a WATER/AIR intercooler and heat exchanger is up in front of car
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Posted by: computers4kids Jun 22 2009, 11:21 PM
Anyone have a Billet 350Z grill?
Hey, we're twins...sort of.
Great work on the conversion, I'll be looking forward to seeing this one in person someday. I especially like how you can tune it via a laptop. ![popcorn[1].gif](style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 23 2009, 01:57 AM
Anyone have a Billet 350Z grill?
Hey, we're twins...sort of.
Great work on the conversion, I'll be looking forward to seeing this one in person someday. I especially like how you can tune it via a laptop. Hey man your car is the one i got the idea for the front grill from. Took a little work but it came out nice. GREAT suggestion for the 350z grill. Yeah it is kinda cool dialing it in via the laptop. Today was only setting the idle valve parameters high/low and under load condition for a/c etc. so the idle wasnt so high, now its around 1100. REALLY need that wideband to come in the mail, cuz then i can hit.....self tune on the computer and drive!
Posted by: charliew Jun 23 2009, 07:43 PM
How long is the water to air unit in front of the motor, it seems pretty narrow, was that a reccommended size. I would guess the 2.0 will use about 500 cfm on 1 bar of boost. Your turbo will make about 320-340f degrees in 4th on a hard pull. Hope it gets it down to 150 f or better. I'm anxious to see how much you like the storm emu. It seems to maybe be the best available for the price.
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 26 2009, 08:36 PM
How long is the water to air unit in front of the motor, it seems pretty narrow, was that a reccommended size. I would guess the 2.0 will use about 500 cfm on 1 bar of boost. Your turbo will make about 320-340f degrees in 4th on a hard pull. Hope it gets it down to 150 f or better. I'm anxious to see how much you like the storm emu. It seems to maybe be the best available for the price.
The water/ air intercooler might be a little small.(path for heat exchange isnt too large) I wont know till i get it up and really running on the street. I'll be able to check air intake temps and if they are too hot, Bigger intercooler has to be installed.
Posted by: budman5201 Jun 30 2009, 08:12 PM
Yep I just sacrificed a Stock Subaru water/air intercooler(cut it up!) that came with the engine. The inside stock core size is 12x5.5x 2 inches. Mine is 9x3x2.5 so guess i'll have to keep boost down or get another bigger intercooler. My heat exchanger up front is larger, but i dont think that will make up for the intercooler size.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 2 2009, 12:45 AM
Front Valance in Progress, obviously all rivots will be removed. Recognize that grill material?? 
This is a used one that i got from Patrick Motorsports here in Phoenix
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Posted by: budman5201 Jul 2 2009, 12:48 AM
another, now just to run Bellowsflex 3/4 inch tubing to and from heat exchanger up front
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Posted by: budman5201 Jul 5 2009, 03:04 PM
Okay guys, she's ready. I am only running 7lbs of boost for now, just to make sure all my loose ends are tied first. ONE WORD of ADVICE: ALWAYS BUY a NEW thermostat. DO NOT trust your used JDM engine thermostat. I tested mine and worked fine in a pot of boiling water. But when i put it in i was having a cooling problem with 3 holes drilled into the thermostat. I took it out after i couldnt fine the problem, and cut off the spring holding it closed, guess what......it still was stuck closed without anything holding it. CORRoded shaft inside where you could not see it. PUt a new one in and....COOLS PERFECT NOW, and in the 105 degree heat here in az. Runs at 190 all day!!
Cool, almost done. Its getting a better tune tonight. I have it running a little rich to be safe under boost. Driving it to the tuner!!
Front valance is done, but didnt turn out as nice as i wanted it too. Solid though. 
Oh....so far the water/air intercooler works just as i thought. Its 105 out and the temperature entering engine is 30 degrees hotter under boost. Might still need a bigger intercooler but we'll see next week at the dyno.
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Posted by: computers4kids Jul 5 2009, 03:20 PM
Coming right along 
I was wondering how the front valance would hide your cooler--actually a nice fit. I'm not to sure what to do differently instead of the grate in the valance, but hey it will get you on the road for now. I'll be very interested to see what kind of torque and hp it produces and at what rpm.
Keep the updates coming...
PS Could you post what gear you make your runs in and the load they put the wheels on if it's a "full chasis dyno."
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 5 2009, 03:35 PM
Coming right along
I was wondering how the front valance would hide your cooler--actually a nice fit. I'm not to sure what to do differently instead of the grate in the valance, but hey it will get you on the road for now. I'll be very interested to see what kind of torque and hp it produces and at what rpm.Keep the updates coming...
PS Could you post what gear you make your runs in and the load they put the wheels on if it's a "full chasis dyno."
Yep, no problem. Tonight is just at the tuners to make sure i am in safe fuel levels (running ONLY 7lbs no boost controller yet) just in case i decide to beat the heck out of it before the dyno. Dyno should be this week(boost controller hooked up-18 lbs boost) , and yes i will have it all. Engine hp, and at Wheel HP. I'll post the data sheet
Oh hey computers4kids...what supplier did you use for your front grill? I think i got too cheap a 350z knockoff from ebay, it curves down and i couldnt get it to line up as flush as yours looks.
Posted by: computers4kids Jul 5 2009, 04:01 PM
Coming right along
I was wondering how the front valance would hide your cooler--actually a nice fit. I'm not to sure what to do differently instead of the grate in the valance, but hey it will get you on the road for now. I'll be very interested to see what kind of torque and hp it produces and at what rpm.Keep the updates coming...
PS Could you post what gear you make your runs in and the load they put the wheels on if it's a "full chasis dyno."
Yep, no problem. Tonight is just at the tuners to make sure i am in safe fuel levels (running ONLY 7lbs no boost controller yet) just in case i decide to beat the heck out of it before the dyno. Dyno should be this week(boost controller hooked up-18 lbs boost) , and yes i will have it all. Engine hp, and at Wheel HP. I'll post the data sheet
Oh hey computers4kids...what supplier did you use for your front grill? I think i got too cheap a 350z knockoff from ebay, it curves down and i couldnt get it to line up as flush as yours looks.
My grill is a T-Rex, which is a real nice grill. It still pretty cheap off of ebay. I believe the reason why your grill protrudes is not the brand of grill, but becuase you chose to use the entire length of the grill. If you look at the picture of my grill you will notice that I cut a few inches off each side of the grill before I cut the bumper hole. I did this because the curvature is too much using the full length. By removing the same amount on both ends the curvature then matches our bumpers curvature much better. Also, as you probably noticed, the grill also curves a bit downward on the ends. If you cut the grill right before the last vertical support, you can easily tweak each bar to match the fog grills pretty closely. Unfortunately, your bumper has already been cut so I'm not to sure your alternatives at this point.
The trick is to either fill a 73-74 bumper tit holes or cut an early bumper...I won't say which one I did because some 914 enthusiasts would roll over in their grave.
Mark
Posted by: charliew Jul 5 2009, 04:38 PM
A good result on the ic would be to get the temp at the throttle body to ambient temps. +- 10 degrees
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 5 2009, 09:16 PM
A good result on the ic would be to get the temp at the throttle body to ambient temps. +- 10 degrees
Yeah that would be, but once its about 110 out here in az, thats a little tough. I did my research and +20-30 even 40 is great. Air/air is a lot higher than that!
Posted by: charliew Jul 6 2009, 11:04 AM
Interesting about a year ago my son's sti on a 95 degree evening runs 105 degrees with a fmic a/a with the turbo (30r at 26 lbs) making 340 degrees in a hard pull in 4th. He does also have a sealed cold air intake to the hood scoop and fenderwell. The therocouple lines were in the silicon hose at the turbo outlet and the throttle body inlet. We already had a sprayer to install but decided it was too efficient to mess with the sprayer. I had also made a fg enclosure to force the incoming air through the ic and into the radiator.
This is interesting, maybe the w/a ic is getting heat soak from the exhaust heat rising. I also wanted to do w/a ic but was just going to get the frozen kit. Also as you make the turbo work harder the temps will rise alot more unless you go to a bigger turbo that is more efficient. I'm sure you will achieve a good setup but it might take more trial and error than expected. The cooler the intake air the more timing you can run.
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1034&osCsid=2658d817287671d2f3cd613f392270fe
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 6 2009, 02:24 PM
Interesting about a year ago my son's sti on a 95 degree evening runs 105 degrees with a fmic a/a with the turbo (30r at 26 lbs) making 340 degrees in a hard pull in 4th. He does also have a sealed cold air intake to the hood scoop and fenderwell. The therocouple lines were in the silicon hose at the turbo outlet and the throttle body inlet. We already had a sprayer to install but decided it was too efficient to mess with the sprayer. I had also made a fg enclosure to force the incoming air through the ic and into the radiator.
This is interesting, maybe the w/a ic is getting heat soak from the exhaust heat rising. I also wanted to do w/a ic but was just going to get the frozen kit. Also as you make the turbo work harder the temps will rise alot more unless you go to a bigger turbo that is more efficient. I'm sure you will achieve a good setup but it might take more trial and error than expected. The cooler the intake air the more timing you can run.
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1034&osCsid=2658d817287671d2f3cd613f392270fe
My intake is in the engine bay, and its hot in there! Maybe i should run it out the fenderwell with a sealed airbox thats insulated. Maybe i can drop my temps even further. I bet me sucking in 200 degree air in the first place is affecting why i cant get lower. Guess i have another job to do!
thanks for the info and sounds like your sons car is very efficient.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 7 2009, 02:36 AM
OMG guys. Thats all i have to say. Can you say 0-60 in the 4.5 range? Been tuning the past 3 days, went through a bad TD04 turbocharger. It now has a TD05 L version. (dont know which version letter L is) Found a bad t-clamp that i bought from ebay that was causing a boost leak and weird BPV noises, etc. SUggestion, dont buy things you can count on from ebay. I bought all new ones from a local shop.....GOODSPEED in tempe,az.
It is definately ready for the dyno, map is almost tuned. Guess i can save a little money and only be there for a few hours. I go friday morning. I will get a horsepower printout and i will post it here!
One question guys, how much can our transmissions hold? I am only running 16 lbs boost( it hit the 220 Kpa Map limit that i set so i wouldnt blow it up) and it literally rips up the road. I dont know how my tires are so sticky, but not blowing through them yet. I am a little afraid of blowing my nice rebuilt tranny.....Dr EVIL chime in??
Oh yeah...one more thing. I need a quiet muffler that flows, but i would like to keep it hidden like the 25 inch glasspack thats there now. I am going for stealth quiet sound.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 7 2009, 02:53 AM
lid
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Posted by: DBCooper Jul 7 2009, 05:59 AM
Fun, isn't it? When I try to tell other teener folk about it I can see on their faces that they like the idea but don't really understand.
I have a short Magnaflow turbo muffler across the back of mine. It's nice and quiet, low rumble around town, sounds like half of a very healthy V8 on acceleration, goes into a moan and then really menacing banshee shrieks well into boost. Recommended.
As a heads-up I didn't use a motor torque bar. The too-soft VW Bus motor mounts let the transmission move and on a 2-3 shift at the drag strip the transmission mounting ears came off. New nose, no big deal, but you might want to keep that in mind. There's a whole heck of a lot more torque back there now, so use stiff motor and transmission mounts. I'm going to try a WRX transmission (sorry Doc). They break too, I'm told, but should last longer in a lighter two wheel drive car. And like the engine, once they're in they're relatively cheap to repair or replace. It should certainly shift better than the 35 year old POS that's coming out.
Oh crap. I'm going to need to sell it, so shouldn't be calling it a POS.
Posted by: plymouth37 Jul 7 2009, 08:07 AM
I was running a stock 914 tranny in my car without any problems, just use first as a granny gear and if you have to launch it use second.
Congrats on getting her driving, I remember when I got mine on the road, it was the best day ever.
Posted by: DBCooper Jul 7 2009, 09:52 AM
Sorry, I should clarify that. The dragstrip incident is totally unrelated, just something I learned the hard way so I wanted to share. I had no problem with the 901 transmission holding the Subaru's power, I just really can't stand the way it shifts. It's ridiculous. Yes, new bushings from front to back, adjusted, aligned, replaced, everything. Twice. But better is still not good enough. That modern engine improved that car so much I decided to go modern on the transmission, too. I don't care about authenticity, I just like to have fun driving it.
Posted by: pktzygt Jul 7 2009, 12:11 PM
I just got off the phone with renegade. I got the break-in the clutch recommendation. I told him I'm a long way off from that. I got my motor in yesterday afternoon and immediately said I was going to let it sit until this weekend so I could relax. You have me wanting to go back out there tonight, but I'm stuck at work until tomorrow night.
I'm going to get all the intercooler and turbo plumbing finished this week and I'll finish cutting the radiator holes and installing the radiator this weekend.
Thanks for keeping me motivated. Looking foward to your dyno sheet.
Posted by: DBCooper Jul 7 2009, 12:30 PM
I'm trying to develop this knack I seem to have for foreseeing things in the future. For you I predict that the first words out of your mouth when you first put the hammer down are going to be "OH SHIT!".
Followed by several OMG's and a big silly grin. 
Then spurious nonsensical thoughts like "Good Lord, do you suppose you could fit TWO of them in there?"
So to answer your question ahead of time, and get back on topic, "No, you can't, not two with that transmission."
Posted by: Dr Evil Jul 7 2009, 07:47 PM
300 ft/lb is the rate for our boxes. The CVs tend to break first. If you have sticky meats and stock axles your axles will likely suffer first. If you have beef and beef axles, your gear box will break eventually. You have to drive the 901 as has been described ad nauseum elsewhere. I have a beefed up 901/902 style with a taller diff I am itching to build for someone with power and a little $$.
Posted by: pktzygt Jul 8 2009, 08:21 AM
300 ft/lb is the rate for our boxes. The CVs tend to break first. If you have sticky meats and stock axles your axles will likely suffer first. If you have beef and beef axles, your gear box will break eventually. You have to drive the 901 as has been described ad nauseum elsewhere. I have a beefed up 901/902 style with a taller diff I am itching to build for someone with power and a little $$.
Hey, that sounds like me. I will soon have power and already have little money!
I'll send you a PM.
Posted by: charliew Jul 8 2009, 05:40 PM
Budman you could go to a gt engine cover and that might let some of the exhaust heat out of around the waic. I think you will find that the water is moving too fast through the front waic radiator and not getting a chance to cool down. You might try a ballvalve in line after the pump to adjust the flow to see.
When you start shopping for suby trannys try to find a 05 up legacy it will have the strongest factory gears and I think a lower differential ratio. That will also help the tranny survive plus it will give a better around town and at the strip performance. I found a 05 leg tranny that has a busted case and bent input shaft that I will use in a 96 tt tranny I have. I'm pretty sure it will all interchange. I will also put a obx lsd in while it's apart. If it won't fit that case I have a 02 wrx with only 5k on it that I got with the wrx motor. It's a lot of work but it will probably be a winter project. Too many house projects right now. It's gonna be 104 tomorrow and I'm just now redoing a deck outside in the sun. Most of it gets done from 6am till 1pm then it's cool down time till 7pm then a little more work. Kindof a long siesta.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 9 2009, 01:20 AM
The dyno on friday will tell a lot about hard pulls. I expect any changes to my intercooler and heat exchanger up front to change after those results.(bigger, slow the flow, etc) So far my water intercooler temp has remained a NICE constant 20 degrees above ambient no matter how hard a pull i make. (and this is in todays 112 degree heat also so not bad!)
Posted by: charliew Jul 9 2009, 04:47 PM
The water temp in the ic should only be ambient especially when not on boost. There is nothing heating it up when it's off boost. Get that temp down and you are golden. Drive it around and stay off boost and adjust the water flow to stay at ambient and then see how well it works when you do a third gear long pull. You need to really watch the boost and make sure it doesn't surge past the 16 psi goal or detonation will kill your rod bearings quickly. Will your tuner use a listening device (audio amplifier) to watch for knock while he's tuning? I hope so.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 04:27 PM
OKAY guys here are the results and things that need to be changed. Today was an eventful day and VERY friggin HOT! 115 degrees here in AZ!
252 at the wheels Horsepower and 262 ft/lbs torque! Great results!
I am very happy. And yes to all who asked about detonation, my tuner does NOTHING buy subaru ej25 n/a and ej20 turbos in sandrails so he knows his stuff. Timing curve right on the money. We used half race gas during the tuning so we could run higher boost, but he said until i get a bigger intercooler outback and the air cleaner pulling in air not from the hot engine compartment....i should limit it to 13 lbs boost when running on average gas from the pump. IF i want to run like we did at the dyno, and YES we made it to 20 lbs of boost with NO knock whatsoever, i must run half race gas.
Here is the dyno chart!
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 04:28 PM
dyno (the ambient air, AFR, and Fuel specs were not connected to dyno for this printout, only Speed, Horsepower, torque, and boost pressure)
Attached File(s)
scan0116.pdf ( 167.16k )
Number of downloads: 91
Posted by: charliew Jul 10 2009, 04:32 PM
So lets get real and post the numbers on 93 octane or whatever you will be getting at 11oclock pm at a normal stop and go. Thats real world hp and torque. So 13 lbs and normal high octane is about 200 and 220? Thats still a very good reliable starting point. It also should be easy to make improvements.
I'm not real sure why you would use 1/2 and 1/2 unless that is a good "known" octane to set afr's and timing from.
If you can move the ic up from the confined space above the exhaust it might be big enough to work good. I'm pretty sure the intake air is almost as good as you will be able to do, It's close to the engine cover already. The only thing you might try is add a scoop in the outer quarter panel like the fieros use to get the air from the side of the car.
Your printout shows that you don't seem to have enough intake airflow as it is not making anything past 5k, most subys still make power at 6k and redline at 7. I'm pretty sure. You might want to post your graph on nasioc and get some gurus to give you some ideas on why the hp a ftlbs are not still climbing between 5 and 6k.
It looks like the graph says chp and cftlbs which I would think is crank numbers. And it must have been in the morning as the ambient temp was 90f? I guess it was so rich was why it made it to 20psi without any knock.
With your ecu can you select between different maps for different fuels on the go or do you have to reflash for each octane?
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 04:38 PM
So lets get real and post the numbers on 93 octane or whatever you will be getting at 11oclock pm at a normal stop and go. Thats real world hp and torque. So 13 lbs and normal high octane is about 220 and 240?
I probably will go back to the dyno, its close to my house but i want to make sure that i have all of my items in order on my car before i do that. Today was the first testing day, and it opened my eyes to a little work that still needs to be done. Next round when everything is fixed or changed i will do one run on pump gas and then fill with race gas and post BOTH results.
Today was initial testing only. thanks for the input though
oh one more thing....i am sure that PHOOOOOOSh of the BPV will get annoying after a while. Plans for intake are to be wrapped in thermal exhaust wrap and vented to outside air so i can have a conversation without being interrupted by Phooooosh ....Phooooosch after ever shift. I Like quiet!
Posted by: carreraguy Jul 10 2009, 04:53 PM
So lets get real and post the numbers on 93 octane or whatever you will be getting at 11oclock pm at a normal stop and go. Thats real world hp and torque. So 13 lbs and normal high octane is about 220 and 240?
I probably will go back to the dyno, its close to my house but i want to make sure that i have all of my items in order on my car before i do that. Today was the first testing day, and it opened my eyes to a little work that still needs to be done. Next round when everything is fixed or changed i will do one run on pump gas and then fill with race gas and post BOTH results.
Today was initial testing only. thanks for the input though
oh one more thing....i am sure that PHOOOOOOSh of the BPV will get annoying after a while. Plans for intake are to be wrapped in thermal exhaust wrap and vented to outside air so i can have a conversation without being interrupted by Phooooosh ....Phooooosch after ever shift. I Like quiet!
Lookin good! I dynoed 210RWHP w/235FTLB TORQUE at 15LBS with my EJ20. Could tune for more but I'm happy there.
However, I do like the atmospheric BOV phoosh phoosh!
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 05:06 PM
So lets get real and post the numbers on 93 octane or whatever you will be getting at 11oclock pm at a normal stop and go. Thats real world hp and torque. So 13 lbs and normal high octane is about 220 and 240? Thats still a very good reliable starting point. It also should be easy to make improvements.
I'm not real sure why you would use 1/2 and 1/2 unless that is a good "known" octane to set afr's and timing from.
If you can move the ic up from the confined space above the exhaust it might be big enough to work good. I'm pretty sure the intake air is almost as good as you will be able to do, It's close to the engine cover already. The only thing you might try is add a scoop in the outer quarter panel like the fieros use to get the air from the side of the car.
Your printout shows that you don't seem to have enough intake airflow as it is not making anything past 5k, most subys still make power at 6k and redline at 7. I'm pretty sure. You might want to post your graph on nasioc and get some gurus to give you some ideas on why the hp a ftlbs are not still climbing between 5 and 6k.
It looks like the graph says chp and cftlbs which I would think is crank numbers.
it definately makes power all the way to redline around 7800. My butt gauge tells me the dyno must be off, cuz i dont see a drop of power at all at 5000 rpm, exactly the opposite!! A HOLY shhh...t feeling actually from 5000 to redline!.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 05:09 PM
Temp was not hooked up on the dyno, only on my laptop. I'll try to find my runtime values for those parameters.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 10 2009, 05:15 PM
With your ecu can you select between different maps for different fuels on the go or do you have to reflash for each octane?
i can program whatever i want. I can run it next time once with Chevron 91 octane gas and save the program as that, then run it with chevron 91 and half 110 octane and save it as that. When i turn my key in my car, plug the usb cord in, i can pick whatever saved file i have on my laptop from dyno day and hit save and it will load it into the ECU. So yes, very easy to switch gas one week, and have a fun road trip another....takes 20 seconds...There is no switch on the ecu if thats what you were asking. Just a usb cord
Posted by: charliew Jul 10 2009, 05:28 PM
On my son's sti we installed a zietronic onboard datalogger with it's own wideband o2 and exhaust gas temp sender. It also has a 4 position switch that allows you to pick from 4 different tunes for different fuels, that way when you need to fillup if the gas is crappy you can just pick a milder tune till you can find better fuel.
Also as a last resort to deal with the high temps you can go to a good water alcohol mix sprayer. Only thing is a good one is expensive. It will be cheaper to get the air intake temps down with the ic.
Posted by: computers4kids Jul 10 2009, 11:47 PM
So did you run in 4th gear? Curious, what rpm are you turning going 65 mph in 5th gear? Thanks for posting your run...very interesting. It sure would be nice to have a dyno to actually spend time on and tune. I just bought the three passes with no tuning to get a starting place...tuning is expensive.
Any pics??
Posted by: charliew Jul 11 2009, 03:59 PM
Just a guess but I would think the dyno pull was third or 4th. Third may be too short to get a reliable gradual high load on the 914 tranny for the turbo to reach full boost.
It's a lot easier to tune a efi with ecu controlled timing and afr than a carbureator and distributor on the dyno.
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 11 2009, 07:51 PM
Just a guess but I would think the dyno pull was third or 4th. Third may be too short to get a reliable gradual high load on the 914 tranny for the turbo to reach full boost.
It's a lot easier to tune a efi with ecu controlled timing and afr than a carbureator and distributor on the dyno.
You are good, exactly right....third gear for all dyno work. Yep dyno was very expensive. $500 for 3 hours. (dyno time at $100/hr + $200 for my subaru pro/tuner)
Oh RPM in 5th gear is same as your car if it had 205/45/17 tires on it. (close to same diameter of stock tires.) Engine turns the same rpm at 65 mph on the 901 no matter what engine you got. I'll write it down next week and post it, its a little too hot this weekend for any type of no A/C driving (115 degrees in AZ)
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Posted by: budman5201 Jul 15 2009, 02:05 AM
On my son's sti we installed a zietronic onboard datalogger with it's own wideband o2 and exhaust gas temp sender. It also has a 4 position switch that allows you to pick from 4 different tunes for different fuels, that way when you need to fillup if the gas is crappy you can just pick a milder tune till you can find better fuel.
YEP!! just found it in my computer tonight. I can hook up a switch (up to 4 different inputs) to my computer and when switched it will trigger up to 4 different maps to be used. Boost map, fuel map, or timing map. So my computer does have the capability to hook a switch on the dash for different octanes and when i run into crappy gas, i can switch the switch and it will switch the map and no need for my laptop to be hooked up.....too cool!
Posted by: budman5201 Jul 19 2009, 07:16 PM
Here is the coil pack that i used on my conversion for the guy who is buying the Storm ECU from me....
Attached File(s)
I14_SubaruInternalIgnitorCoils.pdf ( 89.84k )
Number of downloads: 111
Posted by: bfrymire Mar 8 2010, 02:18 PM
Have a simple question. I know you have done both the NA 2.5l subaru, and now the turbo 2.0l.
From a driveability standpoint, which was better? THe 2.5l should have better torque, but does the 2.0l spool faster enough, that you don't notice it?
If you were making a daily driver, which would you use?
(I noticed you also wanted to try the tribeca 6 cylinder.)
thanks
-- brett
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